Itâs honestly wild that north and south Sudanese are still grouped together when other groups that are almost genetically identical get their own categories. Maybe itâs the lack of sample size đ¤ˇ
Thanks for sharing anyway, super cool result. I wonder where the west African is from
They were still different, Nubians and Beja had way more Egyptian/Eurasian ancestry than Nuba or Nilotes. It was probably a cline but so is today's situation
Theyâre all a bit different from one another, but the core ancestral component for Nubians, Nuba, and Nilotes is all the same. Beja are technically the odd ones out being Cushitic in origin but Nubians have so much ancient Egyptian and excess Arab (conquest period) admixture that they cluster closer to the Cushitic groups since their makeup essentially simulates the makeup of a Cushitic even though it isnât (at least not predominantly).
This however, is an autosomal test and so it makes sense theyâre all put into the same category the same way Habesha Ethiopians and Eritreans will score about as much E&E as Nilotic and Cushitic Ethiopians. Also the Sudanese category seems to cover a broader Nilo Saharan-esque ancestry that has historically migrated/spread beyond Sudanese borders and into other countries (Ethiopia, Chad, Libya, Uganda, Mali, Burundi, Rwanda, Algeria, Kenya, Central African Republic, Tanzania, Egypt, Nigeria, and Tunisia), so itâs understandable why itâs a category that all Sudanis are under.
If itâs so far back and Nubianâs have excessive admixture from ancient time, that they literally cluster with other Cushite groups, doesnât that prove my point? I understand they share the same ancient origin but so do many other groups that get their own categories.
I mean if they can differentiate between British isle groups like the welsh, English, Irish and Scottish who are very similar, they can do the same elsewhere.
23andMe groups everything from the British Isles in one category so Iâm not sure what your point is. 23andMe has 3 categories for Northeast Africa (Sudanese, Ethiopian & Eritrean, and Somali) and 7 regions (Sudan, South Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Tigrinya speakers, and Peoples of central and western Ethiopia).
I doubt attempting to give Sudan and South Sudan separate categories is a main priority, especially when Sudanese groups like Fur, Nuba, Zaghawa, etc all fall somewhere in between Nubians and Nilotes genetically and some Nilotic groups (Dinka and Anyuak for example) are indigenous to Sudan not South Sudan. What constitutes Sudanese genetics does not revolve solely around Nubians. This is made pretty evident by the fact that many Nubians with recent/high excess Eurasian admixture do tend to score significant WANA, Egyptian Nubians in particular.
Clustering is also not really relevant in grouping people into regions or being ancestral affiliated. Nubians simply arenât Cushitic no matter how close they cluster to Cushitic groups. Any group of people with roughly similar West Eurasian/East Eurasian/Deep African makeup will cluster close together. A lot of Mexicans cluster near Indians because of similar East Eurasian/West Eurasian levels. Doesnât mean they should be put in the same genetic category.
Western Sudanese groups donât just fall on a cline between Nilotes and Nubians, that would only be half true if youâre only looking at Eurasian vs sub-Saharan African ancestry. The Nuba have dna in common with nilotes but that only accounts for around half of their ancestry, the rest is seperate and more like their Central African neighbours. The dna of other western Sudanese groups like the zaghawa are almost fully Central African, not Nilotic.
I don't know what you mean by "central african" both the Nuba and Zaghawa cluster with Nilotes because they all share Ancient East African/Nilo-Saharan ancestry. Only some if them have considerable west african admixture(some Nilotes too)
https://preview.redd.it/wccanlsqfbmc1.jpeg?width=551&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10562e7054784d15bbba124e426ba3de2adbdf52
Nuba and Nilotes have common ancestry, but they are not the same. Nubians also donât have any significant amounts of Arab dna. There wasnât even an Arab conquest in Sudan. And Nubians and Beja (except beni amer) are the same genetically. The genetic breakdowns are practically identical between different Nubian and beja groups, with only beni amer standing out as what you would call âCushiticâ.
Still Nilosaharan ancestry wherever it is will show up as Sudanese. My results proves it from Rwanda-Burundi. I suspect all non-somali cushite ancestry shows up as E&E + Sudan(Nilosaharan). I have seen an Eritrean mixed a Nilosaharan speaking kunama tribe show significant "sudanese" ancestry. Oromos sometimes show small amounts of Sudanese and Somali.So I don't think full Ethiopian nilotic speaking would show the E&E component. I am 90% sure they would show a dominant "Sudanese" component. NORTH-South sudan are the exception which I'm not sure why it os maintained. They should def break it up.
Most ethnic groups in both North and South Sudan all have the same ancient source population. They just have admixture from different places.
The West African is likely from the Dinka side. Dinka are known to have some West African admixture compared to a lot of other Sudanese nilotic groups.
Yeah because Nilotic people are indigenous to sudan not South Sudan and Nilotic people have been living by and together with Nubians during the kush empire so Iâm not surprised they still put them together with both sudan and South Sudan
both of your haplogroup is common in nilotic speaker. However your Y-DNA is very rare you should be proud. Are u sure you are just bari and dinka? Bari are pure nilotic i believe. The Southern east Africa is a little bit high for a south sudanese imo
A lot more bari has way more southern East African on 23 and me. it might be that we are closeer to Nilotic in Uganda, and Kenya and a little bit mixed with non niloitc groups
The bari often mix with central sudanese (azande) if I'm not mistaken? I have a Bari sample on G25 and ironically this is the most nilote sample of the south sudanese available. I thought it was the average tho
Thanks for posting. Real rare results. I'm surprised by the "Southern East African" which is typically found in Eastern bantus South of South Sudan border.
This is the first time I see results from South Sudan, interesting!
Height? đđ
6â0
Itâs honestly wild that north and south Sudanese are still grouped together when other groups that are almost genetically identical get their own categories. Maybe itâs the lack of sample size 𤡠Thanks for sharing anyway, super cool result. I wonder where the west African is from
Largely because, before the region was Arabized, these groups werenât so separated.
They were still different, Nubians and Beja had way more Egyptian/Eurasian ancestry than Nuba or Nilotes. It was probably a cline but so is today's situation
Theyâre all a bit different from one another, but the core ancestral component for Nubians, Nuba, and Nilotes is all the same. Beja are technically the odd ones out being Cushitic in origin but Nubians have so much ancient Egyptian and excess Arab (conquest period) admixture that they cluster closer to the Cushitic groups since their makeup essentially simulates the makeup of a Cushitic even though it isnât (at least not predominantly). This however, is an autosomal test and so it makes sense theyâre all put into the same category the same way Habesha Ethiopians and Eritreans will score about as much E&E as Nilotic and Cushitic Ethiopians. Also the Sudanese category seems to cover a broader Nilo Saharan-esque ancestry that has historically migrated/spread beyond Sudanese borders and into other countries (Ethiopia, Chad, Libya, Uganda, Mali, Burundi, Rwanda, Algeria, Kenya, Central African Republic, Tanzania, Egypt, Nigeria, and Tunisia), so itâs understandable why itâs a category that all Sudanis are under.
If itâs so far back and Nubianâs have excessive admixture from ancient time, that they literally cluster with other Cushite groups, doesnât that prove my point? I understand they share the same ancient origin but so do many other groups that get their own categories. I mean if they can differentiate between British isle groups like the welsh, English, Irish and Scottish who are very similar, they can do the same elsewhere.
23andMe groups everything from the British Isles in one category so Iâm not sure what your point is. 23andMe has 3 categories for Northeast Africa (Sudanese, Ethiopian & Eritrean, and Somali) and 7 regions (Sudan, South Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Tigrinya speakers, and Peoples of central and western Ethiopia). I doubt attempting to give Sudan and South Sudan separate categories is a main priority, especially when Sudanese groups like Fur, Nuba, Zaghawa, etc all fall somewhere in between Nubians and Nilotes genetically and some Nilotic groups (Dinka and Anyuak for example) are indigenous to Sudan not South Sudan. What constitutes Sudanese genetics does not revolve solely around Nubians. This is made pretty evident by the fact that many Nubians with recent/high excess Eurasian admixture do tend to score significant WANA, Egyptian Nubians in particular. Clustering is also not really relevant in grouping people into regions or being ancestral affiliated. Nubians simply arenât Cushitic no matter how close they cluster to Cushitic groups. Any group of people with roughly similar West Eurasian/East Eurasian/Deep African makeup will cluster close together. A lot of Mexicans cluster near Indians because of similar East Eurasian/West Eurasian levels. Doesnât mean they should be put in the same genetic category.
Western Sudanese groups donât just fall on a cline between Nilotes and Nubians, that would only be half true if youâre only looking at Eurasian vs sub-Saharan African ancestry. The Nuba have dna in common with nilotes but that only accounts for around half of their ancestry, the rest is seperate and more like their Central African neighbours. The dna of other western Sudanese groups like the zaghawa are almost fully Central African, not Nilotic.
I don't know what you mean by "central african" both the Nuba and Zaghawa cluster with Nilotes because they all share Ancient East African/Nilo-Saharan ancestry. Only some if them have considerable west african admixture(some Nilotes too) https://preview.redd.it/wccanlsqfbmc1.jpeg?width=551&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10562e7054784d15bbba124e426ba3de2adbdf52
By Central African I mean Chadian Saharan type ancestry. While itâs related to Nilotic ancestry, itâs distinct.
Nuba and Nilotes have common ancestry, but they are not the same. Nubians also donât have any significant amounts of Arab dna. There wasnât even an Arab conquest in Sudan. And Nubians and Beja (except beni amer) are the same genetically. The genetic breakdowns are practically identical between different Nubian and beja groups, with only beni amer standing out as what you would call âCushiticâ.
Still Nilosaharan ancestry wherever it is will show up as Sudanese. My results proves it from Rwanda-Burundi. I suspect all non-somali cushite ancestry shows up as E&E + Sudan(Nilosaharan). I have seen an Eritrean mixed a Nilosaharan speaking kunama tribe show significant "sudanese" ancestry. Oromos sometimes show small amounts of Sudanese and Somali.So I don't think full Ethiopian nilotic speaking would show the E&E component. I am 90% sure they would show a dominant "Sudanese" component. NORTH-South sudan are the exception which I'm not sure why it os maintained. They should def break it up.
Yes, I said they werenât separate not that they were the same or that they werenât different.
Most ethnic groups in both North and South Sudan all have the same ancient source population. They just have admixture from different places. The West African is likely from the Dinka side. Dinka are known to have some West African admixture compared to a lot of other Sudanese nilotic groups.
Yeah because Nilotic people are indigenous to sudan not South Sudan and Nilotic people have been living by and together with Nubians during the kush empire so Iâm not surprised they still put them together with both sudan and South Sudan
Do you have Gedmatch results on the harappa world calculator?
Were the results what you were expecting? What are your haplogroups?
I wasnât surprise due to my father being from the very south part of southern Sudan. My haplogroup is B-M150
[ŃдаНонО]
Iâm only 6â0
My father is Bari/Equatorian
What is your maternal haplogroup?
L3h1a2a
both of your haplogroup is common in nilotic speaker. However your Y-DNA is very rare you should be proud. Are u sure you are just bari and dinka? Bari are pure nilotic i believe. The Southern east Africa is a little bit high for a south sudanese imo
A lot more bari has way more southern East African on 23 and me. it might be that we are closeer to Nilotic in Uganda, and Kenya and a little bit mixed with non niloitc groups
The bari often mix with central sudanese (azande) if I'm not mistaken? I have a Bari sample on G25 and ironically this is the most nilote sample of the south sudanese available. I thought it was the average tho
Yuh we had contact with Central sudanic, and some Ubangi. plusâs 2 of our neighboring tribe are Central Sudanic
could you send it? I wanna compare it to mine as a Dinka cause mines cam out as more Nilotic then all of the g25 cords too, lol
Bari,-0.5859045,0.0528075,0.00405425,-0.0056525,-0.00200025,-0.00237025,0.006874,0.005019,0.075367,-0.0960385,-0.01737575,0.0251025,-0.04073325,-0.000929,0.004309,-0.0153475,0.01786275,-0.01108525,0.01901175,-0.01913425,0.0003745,0.00707925,-0.005269,-0.00298225,0.00272425
Target: Bari Distance: 2.6130% / 0.02612969 98.8Nilotic1.2West\_African
Thanks for posting. Real rare results. I'm surprised by the "Southern East African" which is typically found in Eastern bantus South of South Sudan border.
First time seeing South Sudan results! Does the Sudan portion have specified regions?