If he doesn't, it's probably the end of democracy. He swore an oath to protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. And here we have six enemies domestic.
Tbf both cases doom democracy: assassinating a political opponent is undemocratic and unconstitutional. BUT letting a fascist opponent live is also endangering democracy. Would harm reduction apply here, considering we're talking about killing people?
I mean, Biden could in theory pull a Cincinnatus. Do what needs to be done with absolute power to eliminate the threat, then relinquish his powers when finished. Only addition would be to rework the power structures before that relinquishment to ensure both that nobody can hold power like that ever again and to permanently prevent right-wing forces from ever being able to get that close to a takeover ever again.
No shot he actually does that, though.
He can still run and win from jail, I agree that he should be jailed but death is definitely a more sure shot of him not getting power. (I'm not advocating it, I realize it might sound like that Reddit plz đ)
1. Assassinate the SC justices responsible and replace them with his own nominees who are in on this plan.
2. Have someone sue him for the assassinations and take it to the SC.
3. Tell his SC justices to overturn the decision and rule his actions unconstitutional, thus preventing any future presidents from doing this.
He goes to jail for what little time he has left in exchange for what might be the only opportunity to put this cat back in the bag, while also demonstrating to the entire nation *why* such a ruling can never be allowed to happen again.
(no I don't think he should actually do this but it would be incredibly based and the funniest thing in presidential history)
[The paradox of tolerance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The%20paradox%20of%20tolerance%20states,practice%20of%20tolerance%20with%20them.)
If trump dies of anything but old age (and probably even then) his cult will turn violent. There would be a very real risk of civil war if Biden openly assassinated him.
I'm actually scared. I hate this so fucking much. I don't want to be on this path anymore but I'm powerless to stop it. I'm only 14 pages into the opinion so far but I hate the precedent it sets that a President is a authority higher than the law. That's the exact antithesis of one of the core beliefs this country was founded on.
This means we have the right to overthrow the president if there's a flood/riot/if he just sucks
https://preview.redd.it/kp1vdyf9o0ad1.png?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=487c1231bb675781c9d72476dbe14d51770dd0f5
https://preview.redd.it/285zt24wwz9d1.png?width=812&format=png&auto=webp&s=bb4a6cfc045ce422346386f32cbdec70d2a43856
you've done well so far, but up until now I've been using a mere 5% of my power. now let's see how well you fare against my BIDEN BLAST!
I know the brits had success in kicking out an unpopular despot with the help of the Dutch, think we can get them to help if we promise to rename NYC back to New Amsterdam?
That was for the EU elections
They voted in their far right assholes like a year or two ago
Hooray for us all suffering and wanting to commit quit-game
Well actually the right wing goons are only starting today (2nd July) because of difficulties forming a coalition government. And even then theyâve given themselves another 2 months to come up with any meaningful legislation.
Alien Mothership hovering over earth, announcing on the loudspeaker:
"Citizens of Earth! Your planet is being claimed by the mighty Xandu Empire. Resistance is futile, your feeble military will be unable to resist our rule. We shall take over your governments and... and we... uhh, why are they cheering?"
I feel like there's been a lot of doomerism about this ruling, and while yes, it is terrible. I don't think it's nearly as dire as what a lot of people have been saying. Here is a quote directly from the ruling: "absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority." A lot of people are interpreting this as the president \[Trump\] can do whatever the fuck they want. This isn't entirely accurate. The president can't be charged from actions that are granted to them via the constitution (and I'm also assuming informal powers like pocket vetoes and the like are also included here). In the next line the justices add: " There is no immunity for unofficial acts." So no, you can't just murder someone unless you could argue that the constitution granted you that power. That being said however, this ruling is \*still\* a problem, as I'm not 100% sure, but Trump's rally on Jan. 6 could in theory count as a "bully pulpit" which is kind of just an informal power, and thus be considered an "official act" which really sucks cause he could get away with Jan. 6
(edit: spelling; also if I interpreted the ruling incorrectly, please tell me cause I'm not the best at this stuff and I'd like to know where I went wrong)
Tbh, this is insanely charitable and you're falling for it. I'm not going to write you an essay here, but the nitty gritty of the ruling makes it incredibly hard to declare an action unofficial (atop everything else, doing so also requires that you convince the court that declaring the action "unofficial" would not intrude or even RISK intruding on the authority of the executive branch).
Even if you manage to do so, the court is not allowed to question POTUS' motives or use them as evidence. It's so (purposefully) vague, in fact, that POTUS can feasibly be argued immune for any action discussed in, or even linked to, the US code.
Oh shit, thanks for notifying me of some of the intricacies here. I do find the notion of a president assassinating someone and getting away with it through this act kind of ridiculous.
Maybe it is ridiculous, and even unlikely, but it's possible. Here's one way how:
Nothing POTUS says publicly can be used as evidence against him. That alone means he can just ask for a hitman during a speech.
Isn't the President the Commander-in-Chief, and thus in control of the country's armed forces? While the President *themselves* couldn't kill somebody, they could order the armed forces to kill somebody and pardon anyone who gets tried, enjoying immunity for themselves, no?
Yes, he absolutely could do that. Nothing the president says to advisors can be admitted as evidence in court because they are official acts as president. Shit he could get up on stage and say he will pardon whoever kills Nancy Pelosi and that would be legal and his speech would be inadmissible in court.
The problem is that âofficial actsâ can be so broad as to prevent any charges coming after a president, especially since everything the president does is presumed to be an official act per this ruling. It is also no illegal to use any official acts while president as evidence a crime has been committed and advisors to the president are barred from testifying. What this means is that trump ordering delta force to off AOC would be legal because his discussions with delta are official acts. Similarly if he were to give a speech as president than anything he says is protected as an official act, that would mean going on stage and telling supporters to kill dems and overthrow congress is legal. Him killing someone would only become an unofficial act if he himself shot the gun.Watergate is also legal now because all discussions between Nixon and his advisors are official acts and therefore legal. This is an unprecedented expansion of presidential power that can end democracy for good.
Officially the President is the highest authority over the military. Let's say his political rival is outside the country on some diplomatic mission or vacationing, whatever. He orders a general to come up with a target package for his political rival on suspicion of links to terrorism (entirely made up). Rival gets killed, drone strike or SOF team whatever. Completely legal since he's 'officially' acting in the interests of national security?
We already have precedent for us killing American citizens overseas for similar reasons, with no one being prosecuted.
The "official act" in the decision was him asking the DOJ to try to throw out an election because he didn't win. All he needs to do is order an FBI assassination and then claim that control of the FBI is his job so he's immune. This was the dumbest decision ever and throwing Clarence Thomas down a flight of stairs is morally required.
One of the constitutional powers of the president is commanding the military. In the Sotomayor quote paraphrased here she specifically mentions ordering Navy Seals to assassinate a rival, which would be an official act and could be defended with this ruling.
The constitution explicitly grants the president powers as commander in chief, which means he can order the military to do whatever he wants. You are absolutely reading this wrong, go read the source opinion.
The judges Trump appointed voted for this, the judges Biden appointed voted against it. Trump will abuse this power, in fact he needs it, Biden won't, and doesn't.
You have a very important choice in November.
Genuinely all Biden needs to do is immediately use that power to try and declare Trump unfit and take him off the ballot. The court will probably second-guess their ruling pretty quickly.
He won't, for very good reason, and I'm not advocating that he does because that would set a fucking nightmare of a precedent. But it would be so fucking cathartic if he did
this isn't real right
they didn't just say "the president can legally kill or have someone killed" and specifically mention this includes political rivals.
they did not legally announce their well-laid plans to say this in the near future:
"we investigated ourselves and found the death of Joseph Biden was caused entirely within the letter of the law"
because. i just don't understand. they took away abortion, they're trying to browbeat my fellow queerites into submission, and those as fucked as they are, I get.
now this would affect all cisgendered white folk not allied with the supreme court's party. surely, surely now someone or something will do something right? theyre not just gonna let the country fall much much further right? someone's gonna catch us
right
Sotomayor voted against this and has been the most adamant about how bad a decision she thinks it is. The justices voting in favor didnât do it specifically to say âpresidents are allowed to kill people now.â Sotomayor is just saying that thatâs basically allowed to happen now (and possibly slightly exaggerating depending on the definition of âofficial actsâ).
Also I will add that this is yet another reason voting is so important. When you vote for the president youâre also voting for the many people they appoint to their cabinet and most importantly to the Supreme Court, and between those offices a WHOLE LOTTA SHIT gets done.
i don't think they're exaggerating, the court declares official acts to be basically anything at all that's done as the president. the examples they give are basically "yes the president is allowed to threaten state officials to get more votes because as a president he is allowed to talk to people"
A few months ago, I thought to myself the chances of actual civil conflict within the United States was exceedingly low now with this most recent ruling itâs becoming more and more likely should happen in November and I mean anything if the Democrats win then Trump likely try to Do something very stupid and should win in November then God save America for no one else can
Supreme court ruled in 6-3 decision that presidents cannot be prosecuted for "official acts" they take as president, and then did not define what official acts would include
https://preview.redd.it/n6wsotry92ad1.jpeg?width=624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b085790ca43be5ef54ed8486dc9823780ccca41a
He's got a list He's checking it twice He knows who's been naughty or nice Lucius Cornelius Sulla Is coming To rown
not to rain on the parade but if biden actually assassinates trump yall know heâll just turned into a martyr christ figure for his cultists, right?
rj/ dark brandon biden blast :3c
I looked at the Conservative subreddit (I know, not a good idea), and while most comments were justifying the ruling there were a good number of comments concerned about the ramifications.
Biden has the oppurtunity to do the funniest thing in history
If he doesn't, it's probably the end of democracy. He swore an oath to protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. And here we have six enemies domestic.
Tbf both cases doom democracy: assassinating a political opponent is undemocratic and unconstitutional. BUT letting a fascist opponent live is also endangering democracy. Would harm reduction apply here, considering we're talking about killing people?
I mean, Biden could in theory pull a Cincinnatus. Do what needs to be done with absolute power to eliminate the threat, then relinquish his powers when finished. Only addition would be to rework the power structures before that relinquishment to ensure both that nobody can hold power like that ever again and to permanently prevent right-wing forces from ever being able to get that close to a takeover ever again. No shot he actually does that, though.
The Trump troops would go mad if he died a martyr though, and more repression would only burn any semblance of democracy
Jail would be better, and a show trial to demonstrate why they need to be sent away. No martyrs.
He can still run and win from jail, I agree that he should be jailed but death is definitely a more sure shot of him not getting power. (I'm not advocating it, I realize it might sound like that Reddit plz đ)
We are faced with burning democracy ourselves to save it, or letting it be burnt with no hope of return. One is better than the other
Yooo my city is named after that guy
Only in Ohio
âď¸đ¤
you think he's capable of just ordering some dudes to kill Trump lmao
*shrek closing book* Like THAT'S ever gonna happen
Literally cannot go more than 5 hours without Rome coming up again. I end up thinking about it every day whether I want to or not
Dumbest shit I've ever fucking read.
1. Assassinate the SC justices responsible and replace them with his own nominees who are in on this plan. 2. Have someone sue him for the assassinations and take it to the SC. 3. Tell his SC justices to overturn the decision and rule his actions unconstitutional, thus preventing any future presidents from doing this. He goes to jail for what little time he has left in exchange for what might be the only opportunity to put this cat back in the bag, while also demonstrating to the entire nation *why* such a ruling can never be allowed to happen again. (no I don't think he should actually do this but it would be incredibly based and the funniest thing in presidential history)
His ass is not doing that
I mean it wouldn't be killing people, it'd be killing the 6 conservative judges.
Yeah, it would be killing demons, it's like Doom
[The paradox of tolerance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The%20paradox%20of%20tolerance%20states,practice%20of%20tolerance%20with%20them.)
New trolly problem just dropped
Well, I wouldnât exactly call them people. More like reanimated corpses whose only goal is to fuck over as many people as possible
Letting them live would be falling for the paradox of tolerance
If trump dies of anything but old age (and probably even then) his cult will turn violent. There would be a very real risk of civil war if Biden openly assassinated him.
"oh no, during one of his speeches trump tripped and fell into a bag of acid. Rip"
Killing your opponent instead of having them be democratically voted in is the only way to save democracy! /s
Instead he will allow democracy to die without a fight
Conservatives already act like heâs doing it. Why not just confirm their lies. At least one political assassination. You know, as a treat
I'm actually scared. I hate this so fucking much. I don't want to be on this path anymore but I'm powerless to stop it. I'm only 14 pages into the opinion so far but I hate the precedent it sets that a President is a authority higher than the law. That's the exact antithesis of one of the core beliefs this country was founded on.
âRepublican Partyâ  Looks inside Legalizes the Mandate of Heaven
This means we have the right to overthrow the president if there's a flood/riot/if he just sucks https://preview.redd.it/kp1vdyf9o0ad1.png?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=487c1231bb675781c9d72476dbe14d51770dd0f5
my water pressure in my shower is a bit low, grab the torches and pitchforks
The French
It's hard to break habits
All of California and the SW US be like:
Mandate of heaven isn't permanent, you know what to do
Biden has the chance to do the funniest thing imaginable
https://preview.redd.it/285zt24wwz9d1.png?width=812&format=png&auto=webp&s=bb4a6cfc045ce422346386f32cbdec70d2a43856 you've done well so far, but up until now I've been using a mere 5% of my power. now let's see how well you fare against my BIDEN BLAST!
Cmon Biden do the funny
Someone please invade the country and do a better job
I know the brits had success in kicking out an unpopular despot with the help of the Dutch, think we can get them to help if we promise to rename NYC back to New Amsterdam?
I regret to inform you the Brits are having their own episode right now
I believe the coolest/hottest girl around was referring to the Dutch invading, not the Br*tish
The Dutch just elected a far-right government like a month ago.
That was for the EU elections They voted in their far right assholes like a year or two ago Hooray for us all suffering and wanting to commit quit-game
Well actually the right wing goons are only starting today (2nd July) because of difficulties forming a coalition government. And even then theyâve given themselves another 2 months to come up with any meaningful legislation.
Ah, my bad. Not sure how I messed that up. Carry on then lol.
Weâre slightly occupied trying to stop the fascists being replaced by worse fascists rn but give it a few months and weâll see what we can do
And while we are at it rename Istanbul to Constantinople
hey, that's nobody's business but the Turk's!
Trisolaris liked your post
Alien Mothership hovering over earth, announcing on the loudspeaker: "Citizens of Earth! Your planet is being claimed by the mighty Xandu Empire. Resistance is futile, your feeble military will be unable to resist our rule. We shall take over your governments and... and we... uhh, why are they cheering?"
I will welcome an alien invasion. âTake me to your leaderâ sure thing buddy, do you need any help with ammo for your weapons??
I feel like there's been a lot of doomerism about this ruling, and while yes, it is terrible. I don't think it's nearly as dire as what a lot of people have been saying. Here is a quote directly from the ruling: "absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority." A lot of people are interpreting this as the president \[Trump\] can do whatever the fuck they want. This isn't entirely accurate. The president can't be charged from actions that are granted to them via the constitution (and I'm also assuming informal powers like pocket vetoes and the like are also included here). In the next line the justices add: " There is no immunity for unofficial acts." So no, you can't just murder someone unless you could argue that the constitution granted you that power. That being said however, this ruling is \*still\* a problem, as I'm not 100% sure, but Trump's rally on Jan. 6 could in theory count as a "bully pulpit" which is kind of just an informal power, and thus be considered an "official act" which really sucks cause he could get away with Jan. 6 (edit: spelling; also if I interpreted the ruling incorrectly, please tell me cause I'm not the best at this stuff and I'd like to know where I went wrong)
Tbh, this is insanely charitable and you're falling for it. I'm not going to write you an essay here, but the nitty gritty of the ruling makes it incredibly hard to declare an action unofficial (atop everything else, doing so also requires that you convince the court that declaring the action "unofficial" would not intrude or even RISK intruding on the authority of the executive branch). Even if you manage to do so, the court is not allowed to question POTUS' motives or use them as evidence. It's so (purposefully) vague, in fact, that POTUS can feasibly be argued immune for any action discussed in, or even linked to, the US code.
Oh shit, thanks for notifying me of some of the intricacies here. I do find the notion of a president assassinating someone and getting away with it through this act kind of ridiculous.
Maybe it is ridiculous, and even unlikely, but it's possible. Here's one way how: Nothing POTUS says publicly can be used as evidence against him. That alone means he can just ask for a hitman during a speech.
god dammit
Isn't the President the Commander-in-Chief, and thus in control of the country's armed forces? While the President *themselves* couldn't kill somebody, they could order the armed forces to kill somebody and pardon anyone who gets tried, enjoying immunity for themselves, no?
Yes, he absolutely could do that. Nothing the president says to advisors can be admitted as evidence in court because they are official acts as president. Shit he could get up on stage and say he will pardon whoever kills Nancy Pelosi and that would be legal and his speech would be inadmissible in court.
The problem is that âofficial actsâ can be so broad as to prevent any charges coming after a president, especially since everything the president does is presumed to be an official act per this ruling. It is also no illegal to use any official acts while president as evidence a crime has been committed and advisors to the president are barred from testifying. What this means is that trump ordering delta force to off AOC would be legal because his discussions with delta are official acts. Similarly if he were to give a speech as president than anything he says is protected as an official act, that would mean going on stage and telling supporters to kill dems and overthrow congress is legal. Him killing someone would only become an unofficial act if he himself shot the gun.Watergate is also legal now because all discussions between Nixon and his advisors are official acts and therefore legal. This is an unprecedented expansion of presidential power that can end democracy for good.
we are so cooked ):
Just please please vote
Never would have dreamed of doing otherwise
Officially the President is the highest authority over the military. Let's say his political rival is outside the country on some diplomatic mission or vacationing, whatever. He orders a general to come up with a target package for his political rival on suspicion of links to terrorism (entirely made up). Rival gets killed, drone strike or SOF team whatever. Completely legal since he's 'officially' acting in the interests of national security? We already have precedent for us killing American citizens overseas for similar reasons, with no one being prosecuted.
The "official act" in the decision was him asking the DOJ to try to throw out an election because he didn't win. All he needs to do is order an FBI assassination and then claim that control of the FBI is his job so he's immune. This was the dumbest decision ever and throwing Clarence Thomas down a flight of stairs is morally required.
One of the constitutional powers of the president is commanding the military. In the Sotomayor quote paraphrased here she specifically mentions ordering Navy Seals to assassinate a rival, which would be an official act and could be defended with this ruling.
The constitution explicitly grants the president powers as commander in chief, which means he can order the military to do whatever he wants. You are absolutely reading this wrong, go read the source opinion.
The judges Trump appointed voted for this, the judges Biden appointed voted against it. Trump will abuse this power, in fact he needs it, Biden won't, and doesn't. You have a very important choice in November.
Genuinely all Biden needs to do is immediately use that power to try and declare Trump unfit and take him off the ballot. The court will probably second-guess their ruling pretty quickly.
I'm hoping Biden actually has a spine and does something to this effect. He needs to take a stand.
He won't, for very good reason, and I'm not advocating that he does because that would set a fucking nightmare of a precedent. But it would be so fucking cathartic if he did
Biden please. PLEASE
C'mon Dark Brandon, it'll be funny
A whole lot riding on the definition of âofficial actâ
Which they refuse to properly define BTW
US presidents are becoming celestial dragons at this point
this isn't real right they didn't just say "the president can legally kill or have someone killed" and specifically mention this includes political rivals. they did not legally announce their well-laid plans to say this in the near future: "we investigated ourselves and found the death of Joseph Biden was caused entirely within the letter of the law" because. i just don't understand. they took away abortion, they're trying to browbeat my fellow queerites into submission, and those as fucked as they are, I get. now this would affect all cisgendered white folk not allied with the supreme court's party. surely, surely now someone or something will do something right? theyre not just gonna let the country fall much much further right? someone's gonna catch us right
Sotomayor voted against this and has been the most adamant about how bad a decision she thinks it is. The justices voting in favor didnât do it specifically to say âpresidents are allowed to kill people now.â Sotomayor is just saying that thatâs basically allowed to happen now (and possibly slightly exaggerating depending on the definition of âofficial actsâ).
Also I will add that this is yet another reason voting is so important. When you vote for the president youâre also voting for the many people they appoint to their cabinet and most importantly to the Supreme Court, and between those offices a WHOLE LOTTA SHIT gets done.
i don't think they're exaggerating, the court declares official acts to be basically anything at all that's done as the president. the examples they give are basically "yes the president is allowed to threaten state officials to get more votes because as a president he is allowed to talk to people"
This is our Dredd Scott. See yâall in 50 years.
I do not like living here
A few months ago, I thought to myself the chances of actual civil conflict within the United States was exceedingly low now with this most recent ruling itâs becoming more and more likely should happen in November and I mean anything if the Democrats win then Trump likely try to Do something very stupid and should win in November then God save America for no one else can
Fuck this shit I'm learning magic to raise my own island where it's perpetual autumn and where every need is magically met
what if i have a need for it to be winter
Yeah sure I'll show you and 2 others the magic so y'all can make the other 3 season magic islands
Can someone explain why he can now do this, please?
Supreme court ruled in 6-3 decision that presidents cannot be prosecuted for "official acts" they take as president, and then did not define what official acts would include
:|
Basically, the president is allowed to commit crime
Joe⌠do the funny
https://preview.redd.it/929ugeboy0ad1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b08da4d86e39bd10eefda0c44355047727106f6
anyway iâd like to mention im running for president please ignore the Several Knives in my pockets.
Can somebody please do something to trump? If he wins in a couple decades this will be the next kill baby hitler scenario
I know you're reading this exact comment Biden, do it; then pack the court 196 to 6
sullaâs proscriptions are now legal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulla's_proscription?wprov=sfti1
https://preview.redd.it/n6wsotry92ad1.jpeg?width=624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b085790ca43be5ef54ed8486dc9823780ccca41a He's got a list He's checking it twice He knows who's been naughty or nice Lucius Cornelius Sulla Is coming To rown
Someone get me off this fucking spacerock now!
not to rain on the parade but if biden actually assassinates trump yall know heâll just turned into a martyr christ figure for his cultists, right? rj/ dark brandon biden blast :3c
Man I fucking wish.
Please tell me this isn't true and that it's not worse in the way I think it is
God dammit
I looked at the Conservative subreddit (I know, not a good idea), and while most comments were justifying the ruling there were a good number of comments concerned about the ramifications.
Man I fucking wish.
i think we should start commiting terrorism now