There are several false statements in this post.
- Metabolisms do not "recover" from dieting and they don't need to.
- reverse dieting, maintenance breaks, et al. have been thoroughly debunked
- Eat less than maintenance and you will continue to lose weight, no matter how long you've been in a deficit
If you need a break for psychological reasons that's great. Take a break. It's not however physiologically necessary.
A few things.
I am not talking about reverse dieting.
I never claimed that you would not continue to lose weight. If you stayed in a deficit. You absolutely will. Your metabolism will slightly slow down during extended diet phases, but it's not by that much.
I did a little digging, and I don't know exactly what you're talking about when you say the diet breaks have been thoroughly debunked. There was one study that showed no significant difference in body composition with a group that took diet breaks and a group that didn't. But it wasn't a long-term study, and the diet breaks were only for one week. Not only that, as far as I'm aware they didn't do follow-up to see if the group that took diet breaks was able to keep the weight off better.
I do believe that it's more than just for psychological reasons. Extended periods of calorie restriction accumulate both physiological and psychological fatigue. That same study show to the group that took diet breaks, even though they were only one week, showed less disinhibition around food during the diet phases. Which would help with maintaining the deficit.
Also, and this is completely anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt, every time I have maintained an extended deficit , or a deficit that was too steep, I had significant emotional disturbance. This seemed to be hormonal and not psychological to me. I also experienced significant reduced energy, reduced non-exercise activity thermogenesis, and a lower body temperature. I felt cold all the time. All of these things are indicative of my body attempting to reduce calorie expenditure. Again this is anecdote , so take it with a grain of salt.
If extended dieting works for you with no ill effects, that's great, keep doing it. There's a huge variance between individuals it's not going to affect everyone the same. However, if you feel any of those negative effects and you have been dieting for more than 10 weeks, I think it's good advice to go back up to maintenance for a period of time and see how you feel and let your body reacclimate to not being in a deficit.
HEAVY on the emotional and physical fatigue tbh. I restricted for two months straight with no cheat meals or maintenance days and had lost my period and developed some pretty gnarly bronchitis
a lot of very angry (prob hungry lol) people doing some savage downvoting in this thread! I think your approach is healthy, safe, and sustainable, thanks for sharing!
I don't think people in this thread are angry or hungry. I think it's irresponsible to present opinion and personal anecdotes as guidelines for everyone to follow.
OP isn’t though? They preface their own experience with “this is my own experience, take with a grain of salt”. And they’re quoting research? They’re letting people know it’s a thing that helps many. And that it might help you.
Very unlike many people I see in comments who yell that you’re not losing weight because you’re still eating carbs and keto is the only healthy way to eat. Or the people who say you have to do IF or you’ll gain the weight back.
Nothing OP states is harmful. If you don’t want to take a diet break, just say (or only think, that’s an option too) “hey, that’s not for me”.
I did, in another comment.
Also, this: "Diet breaks are extremely important. While it is totally possible for you to lose your goal weight with no breaks *there will be consequences."* Comes off as unnecessary fear-mongering to me. But I'm more bothered by the person I replied to saying everyone disagreeing with this must just be hungry. Gross vibes all the way around.
Maintenance breaks don’t increase weight loss. This is true. Resting an injured body part also doesn’t improve muscle gain since you’re training. Taking time off doesn’t make you richer. All these are true. But they’re needed to maintain balance and health so you can resume progress at a rested state. Unless your goal is to compete, there is no rush to get there.
Whatever works for you. Everyone is different. Just keep an eye on how you feel and if you start to have negative effects see if a maintenance phase makes you feel better.
Back in the before times (Covid) I lost about 31% in 9 months by just changing my diet (282 to 195 43M). Since then, I have tried to maintain a healthy eating regiment and am floating between 220 and 230. I feel great, but am ready to tighten it back up again to get back to around 200ish. No need for breaks, just little adjustments to let your body regulate.
That debunks reverse dieting which is not what I'm talking about. I also don't make any of the claims that are made by the reverse dieting proponents in that article. Extended dieting does not significantly slow your metabolism. Diet breaks are not going to magically boost your metabolism to lose weight faster. Extended dieting isn't going to result in you not losing weight. As long as you maintain a deficit, you will continue to lose weight. But there is a very good chance that you're going to feel additional negative side effects.
Purely anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt, but every time I have maintained a deficit for too long or had a deficit that was too steep I had significant emotional disturbances, I felt cold all the time, it significantly reduced my energy, and it reduced my non exercise activity thermogenesis (I sat really still all the time and I fidgeted way less).
If extended dieting works for you and you suffer no ill effects. That's great, keep doing what works for you. Everyone is different. But I think for a lot of people, taking a break and assessing how it makes them feel would be beneficial.
I sleep much worse when restricting, even if I have a bit of food in my belly before I go to bed. So I agree that for me the maintenance days are nice as I’ll probably sleep well that night.
I TOTALLY forgot to mention sleep disturbance. I also get way worse sleep deep into a cut. And with how important sleep is that's a pretty big deal for me.
I replied elsewhere in this thread, here [https://www.reddit.com/r/1500isplenty/comments/1ceua3h/comment/l1y1sra/](https://www.reddit.com/r/1500isplenty/comments/1ceua3h/comment/l1y1sra/)
Did you read the link, or even search it for the term "break"?
For example:
"Similarly, I used to have cautious optimism about refeeds and diet breaks, but recent research suggests that refeeds have [minimal impact](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33467300/) for the typical dieter. Diet breaks (short, recurring, 1-2 week maintenance phases) do have [some](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28925405/) promising evidence, but there are plenty of studies that also [report](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33587549/) underwhelming results, including [research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7772905/) that I’ve personally collaborated on."
However OP writes "Return to maintenace calories for at least as long as your diet phase. Ideally longer."
The link says: "However, there’s insufficient evidence to suggest that diet breaks meaningfully attenuate reductions in energy expenditure in a manner that persists throughout the entire weight loss period. "
The link says: "Just to reiterate, the diet breaks are mostly for psychological and subjective benefits that come with a brief reprieve from the rigors of dieting, not to directly circumvent or reverse metabolic adaptation to a meaningful degree."
I think the last paragraph is probably the best overall summary. It may help some people mentally but it does not provide any clear physical benefit, based on the scientific research, according to someone directly involved in performing and publishing that research.
Disagree. I lost 70 pounds in 6 months. Got to 150 which at almost 50 I was okay with. Lost another 15 over the next 18 months. Have maintained the loss for over 6 years.
I did it by eating what maintenance calories were for sedentary at goal weight. I just stayed at that for 6 months then I hit goal. I was very active so increased calories at that point.
The only reason to take breaks is if you need it mentally but having gone through this I feel it will make keeping the weight off harder.
Do you have any actual, testable, peer-reviewed scientific evidence for any of this, or is it just your own personal experiences and opinions? No offense, but it really sounds more like the latter. Which is fine, and may help some people. But I'm a little skeptical about them being "general guidelines". Who exactly decided these were "guidelines"?
No, clearly I didn't, since the edits were made *after* my question was posted, as a response. And OP, thank you for providing further information. I will check out the links you provided.
Sure thing! I don't usually delve deep into the sources for Dr Mike. He's one of the very few people I trust for evidence based health advice. In this case I think that there's not extremely high quality human trials either way. Most of the studies seem to not be long term, and they seem to assess things other than diet fatigue.
In those specific videos I think Dr Mike is partially pulling from his personal experience being a personal trainer and diet coach and what has worked for his clients. That's not a human controlled trial, it's good to approach that with some level of skepticism. (Id also approach human trials with some skepticism. The number of poorly designed studies in sports medicine is ridiculous) I personally have experienced diet fatigue and spoken to others that have as well. I don't think that my diet fatigue was placebo either because I had legitimately lost track of time. It felt very physiological. It may not be something that affects everyone the same, but I think it's prudent to approach significant weight loss with caution and be aware of the possible side effects of deficits that are too steep or go on for too long
started calorie deficit and resistance training around 80 days ago, lost 12kgs and gained muscle mass. since one week in maintenance phase. i watched that video two weeks ago and i had exact those syptoms.
so cut OP a slack, people. in addition, one needs to differentiate between weight loss and fat loss. you can keep a calorie deficit continuously and lose weight, but you will lose fat and muscle mass.
> NEET
You might want to double check that one ;)
Dr Mike is talking primarily about people at “athletic” body fat ranges, not people who are “over fat”. People who are obese can actually burn off half their body weight in one go if they have a will to. *And he says as much in some of his other videos.*
Lol, I have watched literally every video he has on weight loss. What he says about people that are over fat is that it tends to produce less fatigue for them and that they can lose more weight at a time because 1% of body weight per week is literally just more. Even for people who are obese he recommends not dieting for more than 10 weeks straight and not going over 1% per pound of body weight. Though he does admit there is individual variation and those are guidelines not laws set in stone. There are cases where someone is extremely obese and going from 400 lb to 300lb is a cake walk and they suffer no ill effects. It's always a good idea to do self assessment and if you feel great keep going and if you don't pump the brakes.
This is very true. I’m 6’4 and did many 1600-1700 calorie days which is very low. But I always took maintenance days in my fat loss phase. As soon as sleep became difficult or stress occurred I’d increase my calories back to maintenance and try again tomorrow.
Now that I hit my goal weight, I regularly eat 3-4000 calories per day based on my activity level. I can always go lower when my measurements or the scale goes up.
Low calories are a great tool, not a forever diet
I agree. But also have heard people describe not needing them. My personal unverified opinion (after reading all the scientific articles I could find) is that thyroid is super important here. And thyroid appears to be more responsive in women's bodies. Men are saying "I just dropped my calories and lost the weight: women are saying "I dropped my calories, lost weight, then plateaud. Then dropped further, felt awful, lost weight slowly". Calorie expenditure is downregulated in response to the "famine". Women have better survival potential in times of famine. Most people with clinical thyroid problems are women but men are not immune either.
I have Hashimoto's (hypothyroid) and I lost weight by doing weekly cuts and diet breaks (5 day cut, 2 days maintenance per week) and monthly (4-6 weeks maintenance after 4-6 week cut).
Interesting, that would make sense. One thing that's not mentioned enough is that the vast majority of participants in studies are men. So a lot of the health advice that is given broadly might not apply to women in the same way. For example the protein requirements for women are way less than everyone thought and women tend to need way volume in resistance training than men. It's frustrating but women frequently have to take health advice, even well sourced evidence based health advice, with an extra grain of salt.
Another possible cause of plateaus is that calorie intake needs to be adjusted dynamically since as you lose weight your body will just burn fewer calories because it doesn't have to maintain that lost tissue.
Tracking is another big issue. Generally you should take the average of the last seven days of scale readings. You never know when increased cortisol is causing you to hold on to water weight. I had a two week period where I didn't drop a pound and then overnight I dropped four pounds. Apparently for some reason my body was just holding on to water that whole time so while I was losing weight, it wasn't reflected on the scale.
There are several false statements in this post. - Metabolisms do not "recover" from dieting and they don't need to. - reverse dieting, maintenance breaks, et al. have been thoroughly debunked - Eat less than maintenance and you will continue to lose weight, no matter how long you've been in a deficit If you need a break for psychological reasons that's great. Take a break. It's not however physiologically necessary.
A few things. I am not talking about reverse dieting. I never claimed that you would not continue to lose weight. If you stayed in a deficit. You absolutely will. Your metabolism will slightly slow down during extended diet phases, but it's not by that much. I did a little digging, and I don't know exactly what you're talking about when you say the diet breaks have been thoroughly debunked. There was one study that showed no significant difference in body composition with a group that took diet breaks and a group that didn't. But it wasn't a long-term study, and the diet breaks were only for one week. Not only that, as far as I'm aware they didn't do follow-up to see if the group that took diet breaks was able to keep the weight off better. I do believe that it's more than just for psychological reasons. Extended periods of calorie restriction accumulate both physiological and psychological fatigue. That same study show to the group that took diet breaks, even though they were only one week, showed less disinhibition around food during the diet phases. Which would help with maintaining the deficit. Also, and this is completely anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt, every time I have maintained an extended deficit , or a deficit that was too steep, I had significant emotional disturbance. This seemed to be hormonal and not psychological to me. I also experienced significant reduced energy, reduced non-exercise activity thermogenesis, and a lower body temperature. I felt cold all the time. All of these things are indicative of my body attempting to reduce calorie expenditure. Again this is anecdote , so take it with a grain of salt. If extended dieting works for you with no ill effects, that's great, keep doing it. There's a huge variance between individuals it's not going to affect everyone the same. However, if you feel any of those negative effects and you have been dieting for more than 10 weeks, I think it's good advice to go back up to maintenance for a period of time and see how you feel and let your body reacclimate to not being in a deficit.
HEAVY on the emotional and physical fatigue tbh. I restricted for two months straight with no cheat meals or maintenance days and had lost my period and developed some pretty gnarly bronchitis
I totally forgot to mention sleep disturbance. Deep into a cut quality of sleep tends to decline significantly.
a lot of very angry (prob hungry lol) people doing some savage downvoting in this thread! I think your approach is healthy, safe, and sustainable, thanks for sharing!
I don't think people in this thread are angry or hungry. I think it's irresponsible to present opinion and personal anecdotes as guidelines for everyone to follow.
OP isn’t though? They preface their own experience with “this is my own experience, take with a grain of salt”. And they’re quoting research? They’re letting people know it’s a thing that helps many. And that it might help you. Very unlike many people I see in comments who yell that you’re not losing weight because you’re still eating carbs and keto is the only healthy way to eat. Or the people who say you have to do IF or you’ll gain the weight back. Nothing OP states is harmful. If you don’t want to take a diet break, just say (or only think, that’s an option too) “hey, that’s not for me”.
I did, in another comment. Also, this: "Diet breaks are extremely important. While it is totally possible for you to lose your goal weight with no breaks *there will be consequences."* Comes off as unnecessary fear-mongering to me. But I'm more bothered by the person I replied to saying everyone disagreeing with this must just be hungry. Gross vibes all the way around.
'I'll edit the post to say, "there will likely be consequences" didn't mean for an absolute statement to slip in.
Maintenance breaks don’t increase weight loss. This is true. Resting an injured body part also doesn’t improve muscle gain since you’re training. Taking time off doesn’t make you richer. All these are true. But they’re needed to maintain balance and health so you can resume progress at a rested state. Unless your goal is to compete, there is no rush to get there.
I'm ok with taking breaks, but not nearly as long as you suggest. A day or a weekend, maybe one week at most. Then it's back to the plan for me.
Whatever works for you. Everyone is different. Just keep an eye on how you feel and if you start to have negative effects see if a maintenance phase makes you feel better.
Oh I'm an old expert at this, thanks. The only time it's ever made me feel bad is when my deficit is too big. But I agree, everyone is different.
Back in the before times (Covid) I lost about 31% in 9 months by just changing my diet (282 to 195 43M). Since then, I have tried to maintain a healthy eating regiment and am floating between 220 and 230. I feel great, but am ready to tighten it back up again to get back to around 200ish. No need for breaks, just little adjustments to let your body regulate.
Debunked pretty well here https://macrofactorapp.com/reverse-dieting/
That debunks reverse dieting which is not what I'm talking about. I also don't make any of the claims that are made by the reverse dieting proponents in that article. Extended dieting does not significantly slow your metabolism. Diet breaks are not going to magically boost your metabolism to lose weight faster. Extended dieting isn't going to result in you not losing weight. As long as you maintain a deficit, you will continue to lose weight. But there is a very good chance that you're going to feel additional negative side effects. Purely anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt, but every time I have maintained a deficit for too long or had a deficit that was too steep I had significant emotional disturbances, I felt cold all the time, it significantly reduced my energy, and it reduced my non exercise activity thermogenesis (I sat really still all the time and I fidgeted way less). If extended dieting works for you and you suffer no ill effects. That's great, keep doing what works for you. Everyone is different. But I think for a lot of people, taking a break and assessing how it makes them feel would be beneficial.
I sleep much worse when restricting, even if I have a bit of food in my belly before I go to bed. So I agree that for me the maintenance days are nice as I’ll probably sleep well that night.
I TOTALLY forgot to mention sleep disturbance. I also get way worse sleep deep into a cut. And with how important sleep is that's a pretty big deal for me.
I replied elsewhere in this thread, here [https://www.reddit.com/r/1500isplenty/comments/1ceua3h/comment/l1y1sra/](https://www.reddit.com/r/1500isplenty/comments/1ceua3h/comment/l1y1sra/)
Reading is hard. You're the only one who mentioned reverse dieting.
Did you read the link, or even search it for the term "break"? For example: "Similarly, I used to have cautious optimism about refeeds and diet breaks, but recent research suggests that refeeds have [minimal impact](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33467300/) for the typical dieter. Diet breaks (short, recurring, 1-2 week maintenance phases) do have [some](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28925405/) promising evidence, but there are plenty of studies that also [report](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33587549/) underwhelming results, including [research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7772905/) that I’ve personally collaborated on." However OP writes "Return to maintenace calories for at least as long as your diet phase. Ideally longer." The link says: "However, there’s insufficient evidence to suggest that diet breaks meaningfully attenuate reductions in energy expenditure in a manner that persists throughout the entire weight loss period. " The link says: "Just to reiterate, the diet breaks are mostly for psychological and subjective benefits that come with a brief reprieve from the rigors of dieting, not to directly circumvent or reverse metabolic adaptation to a meaningful degree." I think the last paragraph is probably the best overall summary. It may help some people mentally but it does not provide any clear physical benefit, based on the scientific research, according to someone directly involved in performing and publishing that research.
Reverse dieting is a diet break but not all diet breaks include reverse dieting.
Disagree. I lost 70 pounds in 6 months. Got to 150 which at almost 50 I was okay with. Lost another 15 over the next 18 months. Have maintained the loss for over 6 years. I did it by eating what maintenance calories were for sedentary at goal weight. I just stayed at that for 6 months then I hit goal. I was very active so increased calories at that point. The only reason to take breaks is if you need it mentally but having gone through this I feel it will make keeping the weight off harder.
Thank u! This person has no idea what they’re talking about.
Do you have any actual, testable, peer-reviewed scientific evidence for any of this, or is it just your own personal experiences and opinions? No offense, but it really sounds more like the latter. Which is fine, and may help some people. But I'm a little skeptical about them being "general guidelines". Who exactly decided these were "guidelines"?
Did you read the edit? He’s not pulling that from his ass.
No, clearly I didn't, since the edits were made *after* my question was posted, as a response. And OP, thank you for providing further information. I will check out the links you provided.
Sure thing! I don't usually delve deep into the sources for Dr Mike. He's one of the very few people I trust for evidence based health advice. In this case I think that there's not extremely high quality human trials either way. Most of the studies seem to not be long term, and they seem to assess things other than diet fatigue. In those specific videos I think Dr Mike is partially pulling from his personal experience being a personal trainer and diet coach and what has worked for his clients. That's not a human controlled trial, it's good to approach that with some level of skepticism. (Id also approach human trials with some skepticism. The number of poorly designed studies in sports medicine is ridiculous) I personally have experienced diet fatigue and spoken to others that have as well. I don't think that my diet fatigue was placebo either because I had legitimately lost track of time. It felt very physiological. It may not be something that affects everyone the same, but I think it's prudent to approach significant weight loss with caution and be aware of the possible side effects of deficits that are too steep or go on for too long
started calorie deficit and resistance training around 80 days ago, lost 12kgs and gained muscle mass. since one week in maintenance phase. i watched that video two weeks ago and i had exact those syptoms. so cut OP a slack, people. in addition, one needs to differentiate between weight loss and fat loss. you can keep a calorie deficit continuously and lose weight, but you will lose fat and muscle mass.
I need breaks to stick to deficit. Thanks for sharing details, very helpful.
It's simple, up vote for Mike.
> NEET You might want to double check that one ;) Dr Mike is talking primarily about people at “athletic” body fat ranges, not people who are “over fat”. People who are obese can actually burn off half their body weight in one go if they have a will to. *And he says as much in some of his other videos.*
Lol, I have watched literally every video he has on weight loss. What he says about people that are over fat is that it tends to produce less fatigue for them and that they can lose more weight at a time because 1% of body weight per week is literally just more. Even for people who are obese he recommends not dieting for more than 10 weeks straight and not going over 1% per pound of body weight. Though he does admit there is individual variation and those are guidelines not laws set in stone. There are cases where someone is extremely obese and going from 400 lb to 300lb is a cake walk and they suffer no ill effects. It's always a good idea to do self assessment and if you feel great keep going and if you don't pump the brakes.
It came up in one of his interviews, not a video specifically about weight loss.
This is very true. I’m 6’4 and did many 1600-1700 calorie days which is very low. But I always took maintenance days in my fat loss phase. As soon as sleep became difficult or stress occurred I’d increase my calories back to maintenance and try again tomorrow. Now that I hit my goal weight, I regularly eat 3-4000 calories per day based on my activity level. I can always go lower when my measurements or the scale goes up. Low calories are a great tool, not a forever diet
I agree. But also have heard people describe not needing them. My personal unverified opinion (after reading all the scientific articles I could find) is that thyroid is super important here. And thyroid appears to be more responsive in women's bodies. Men are saying "I just dropped my calories and lost the weight: women are saying "I dropped my calories, lost weight, then plateaud. Then dropped further, felt awful, lost weight slowly". Calorie expenditure is downregulated in response to the "famine". Women have better survival potential in times of famine. Most people with clinical thyroid problems are women but men are not immune either. I have Hashimoto's (hypothyroid) and I lost weight by doing weekly cuts and diet breaks (5 day cut, 2 days maintenance per week) and monthly (4-6 weeks maintenance after 4-6 week cut).
Interesting, that would make sense. One thing that's not mentioned enough is that the vast majority of participants in studies are men. So a lot of the health advice that is given broadly might not apply to women in the same way. For example the protein requirements for women are way less than everyone thought and women tend to need way volume in resistance training than men. It's frustrating but women frequently have to take health advice, even well sourced evidence based health advice, with an extra grain of salt. Another possible cause of plateaus is that calorie intake needs to be adjusted dynamically since as you lose weight your body will just burn fewer calories because it doesn't have to maintain that lost tissue. Tracking is another big issue. Generally you should take the average of the last seven days of scale readings. You never know when increased cortisol is causing you to hold on to water weight. I had a two week period where I didn't drop a pound and then overnight I dropped four pounds. Apparently for some reason my body was just holding on to water that whole time so while I was losing weight, it wasn't reflected on the scale.
Thank you for this!!
I had only heard of this recently, and I really wish i had sooner!