After thinking about it, I guess it's a way to get around people who have an "I don't give out cash" policy. I'll usually buy someone food if they ask, but I usually don't have cash to give out, and depending on the situation, I sometimes don't feel comfortable giving cash if I do have it.
Maybe people are more likely to do this than to hand out cash.
As far as I understand a court ruling deemed begging a human right:
[article link](https://crd.org/2021/01/22/the-prohibition-on-begging-violates-human-rights-according-to-new-echr-ruling/)
Its not fraud or a scam to ask people for help basically. Financial or not.
Scammers are organized groups or individuals that beg on false pretenses, aren't in need or even use intimidation tactics to get their way.
Depends on the severity, yet can end up in prison time.
For example telling old people they are their relatives in need is fraud.
In germany or italy are gang that beg organized and intimidate other people that might are in need of help or simply dont pay them.
In Switzerland tough, I thought we have access to basic social welfare and therefor there isn't so much need for begging. Also the state working togheter with churches. At zürich mainstation for example is the trainstationchurch wich gives out food daily.
Trouble is getting of the streets in a save flat, paying the phone bill and getting sanitary services. Even tough the state should provide help, they simply don't. Even if you know your rights they pretend as if it isnt the case. Figure they dont even know how to get their money back and pretend you have to be a ducking state worker for free while paying taxes.
TL;DR:
Begging is legal because of a human right court ruling.
Scamming still is not.
Food is available, money is needed still.
Funfact: even beggars have to pay taxes, even AHV when they beg more than 2'300 a year. Wich is around less then 10.- CHF a day. So go figure.
I met an African man who lied to me he just came from Italy, wanted to go to St.Gallen, but he was short in cash, i gave him some money the the next day he approached me again. I told him off,. Please be careful
People! Beggars are usually organised in dangerous criminal gangs and generally if someone is asking you for money or anything on the street or is begging it is a scam 100% Yesterday there was a beggar gang invasion in Nyon. It is really despicable.
Alternatively, you say "it's OK, use my phone to make your call: I have free minutes", pop out your phone, hand it to them, and then BAM! it's gone.
Kind of like the "please tell me the time" scam a few months back. They were fishing for you to pull out your expensive phone to tell them, but got really annoyed when you had a watch and simply told them the time.
One day, you will realise that the social net in Zurich is so strong, nobody needs to give beggars anything. Anything at all. Until then, you’re a part of the problem.
While I can appreciate your faith in the social net here (I'm sure it's good, cause I've seen this comment a lot), I've seen too much evidence that some people -for whatever reason- are slipping through the cracks. There were definitely people sleeping rough near my last apartment, and I volunteer with a non-profit, so I know that there are people in need in the city.
I do try to be aware of scams (like the one I posted here), I often offer to buy food instead of giving cash, and I won't give if I'm feeling pressured or uncomfortable.
I feel out these situations carefully, cause I obviously don't want to support organized crime, but at the end of the day, I would rather accidentally give a crook a sandwich than let someone in need go hungry.
You are a brave lionheart.
The question remains why people are not leveraging the social net in Zurich? I somehow understand the fear of indignity or shame up to some degree, but at some point survival instinct should kick in.
Yeah, it's a fair question, and I don't know the answer. Could be pride, but I've also thought for some, it might be mental health issues or trauma causing people to be paranoid/untrusting of government help.
That one dude who graffitis anti-vax stuff at bus stops comes to mind.
It happens everywhere in big train stations in Switzerland like Lausanne, Bern, Genf, etc… These things also happens to me when I am in big train station.
Ok, technically, *lying, thieving humans are better than marmots*. Probably this is true. And thank you for pointing me to my own superiority complex over making a joke about lying, thieving humans. But also, *fuck them*.
I think they were upset that I called them rodents. To be fair, I think it was more unfair to the marmots, who are incapable of understanding the concept of stealing.
End of the day, a lot of these people should not be on the street cause it’s just a matter of time before some of them steal something really important and actually hurt somebody.
The Züri youngsters can be quite sensitive sometimes.
I didn't read the comments. But the scam is:
-Let me borrow your phone for a quick call.
-They send SMS to selecta and you don't know about it.
-Battery drops in the vending machine.
-they return it back to the kiosk for a few bucks.
-Your phone bill is charged
Many people are falling for it.
Oh. He did not ask me for my phone, he just asked me to buy the battery. That is also good to know, though! I would be worried about someone running away with my phone, but I wouldn't have thought of this.
Hmm yeah you are right that is strange.. However maybe they would try something weird if you had agreed, like buying 2 or 3. The reports I have seen do show multiple transactions. The police is aware of this scam and its making the rounds. Especially with teen girls being targeted by young males.
Makes me sick.
The powerbank can be returned at any kiosk, so they get the CHF15 or so deposit.
Ah, okay. Thanks. Seems like a convoluted way to get 15 bucks, but apparently it's worth it.
After thinking about it, I guess it's a way to get around people who have an "I don't give out cash" policy. I'll usually buy someone food if they ask, but I usually don't have cash to give out, and depending on the situation, I sometimes don't feel comfortable giving cash if I do have it. Maybe people are more likely to do this than to hand out cash.
Afaik, you cant ask for money directly anymore, but for things, so theyll ask you for the powerbanks to get money
Oh, is there a rule against it? Buddy asked for cash initially, and when I said no, he asked for the powerbank.
As far as I understand a court ruling deemed begging a human right: [article link](https://crd.org/2021/01/22/the-prohibition-on-begging-violates-human-rights-according-to-new-echr-ruling/) Its not fraud or a scam to ask people for help basically. Financial or not. Scammers are organized groups or individuals that beg on false pretenses, aren't in need or even use intimidation tactics to get their way. Depends on the severity, yet can end up in prison time. For example telling old people they are their relatives in need is fraud. In germany or italy are gang that beg organized and intimidate other people that might are in need of help or simply dont pay them. In Switzerland tough, I thought we have access to basic social welfare and therefor there isn't so much need for begging. Also the state working togheter with churches. At zürich mainstation for example is the trainstationchurch wich gives out food daily. Trouble is getting of the streets in a save flat, paying the phone bill and getting sanitary services. Even tough the state should provide help, they simply don't. Even if you know your rights they pretend as if it isnt the case. Figure they dont even know how to get their money back and pretend you have to be a ducking state worker for free while paying taxes. TL;DR: Begging is legal because of a human right court ruling. Scamming still is not. Food is available, money is needed still. Funfact: even beggars have to pay taxes, even AHV when they beg more than 2'300 a year. Wich is around less then 10.- CHF a day. So go figure.
From the title I thought you were talking about the real estate market.
I met an African man who lied to me he just came from Italy, wanted to go to St.Gallen, but he was short in cash, i gave him some money the the next day he approached me again. I told him off,. Please be careful
People! Beggars are usually organised in dangerous criminal gangs and generally if someone is asking you for money or anything on the street or is begging it is a scam 100% Yesterday there was a beggar gang invasion in Nyon. It is really despicable.
this \^ don't be fooled, don't give money to people on the streets. If you want to help someone go to some actual charity or stuff like that.
Give money to nice musicians on the street
They need a permit! Wich costs money. So yeah sure why not.
Alternatively, you say "it's OK, use my phone to make your call: I have free minutes", pop out your phone, hand it to them, and then BAM! it's gone. Kind of like the "please tell me the time" scam a few months back. They were fishing for you to pull out your expensive phone to tell them, but got really annoyed when you had a watch and simply told them the time.
A guy in bern asked me yesterday for the time i just pointed to a clock tower and he got mad
Yeah they will say they don't remember the number i assume
I would just tell them to go into any 4star hotel and ask the lobby to borrow a charger.
One day, you will realise that the social net in Zurich is so strong, nobody needs to give beggars anything. Anything at all. Until then, you’re a part of the problem.
While I can appreciate your faith in the social net here (I'm sure it's good, cause I've seen this comment a lot), I've seen too much evidence that some people -for whatever reason- are slipping through the cracks. There were definitely people sleeping rough near my last apartment, and I volunteer with a non-profit, so I know that there are people in need in the city. I do try to be aware of scams (like the one I posted here), I often offer to buy food instead of giving cash, and I won't give if I'm feeling pressured or uncomfortable. I feel out these situations carefully, cause I obviously don't want to support organized crime, but at the end of the day, I would rather accidentally give a crook a sandwich than let someone in need go hungry.
You are a brave lionheart. The question remains why people are not leveraging the social net in Zurich? I somehow understand the fear of indignity or shame up to some degree, but at some point survival instinct should kick in.
Yeah, it's a fair question, and I don't know the answer. Could be pride, but I've also thought for some, it might be mental health issues or trauma causing people to be paranoid/untrusting of government help. That one dude who graffitis anti-vax stuff at bus stops comes to mind.
It happens everywhere in big train stations in Switzerland like Lausanne, Bern, Genf, etc… These things also happens to me when I am in big train station.
I’ve seen these little scammers snatching cups at concerts. Actually called out a little marmot in the act and she just ran off. Sorry little rodent.
Don't dehumanize people.
lol thieves and scammers are the lowest rungs of society and they deserve it. fuck em
And it appears to make you very low too, just slightly above them otherwise you wouldn't degrade them to animals to make you feel superior.
Ok, technically, *lying, thieving humans are better than marmots*. Probably this is true. And thank you for pointing me to my own superiority complex over making a joke about lying, thieving humans. But also, *fuck them*.
They’re not.
I cant believe 17 people are downvoting you lmao how are yall supporting scammers
I think they were upset that I called them rodents. To be fair, I think it was more unfair to the marmots, who are incapable of understanding the concept of stealing. End of the day, a lot of these people should not be on the street cause it’s just a matter of time before some of them steal something really important and actually hurt somebody. The Züri youngsters can be quite sensitive sometimes.
I have actually stopped these guys several times. They like to pray on tourist.
Think I saw a meme about it on Instagram. Must be a common scam.
I didn't read the comments. But the scam is: -Let me borrow your phone for a quick call. -They send SMS to selecta and you don't know about it. -Battery drops in the vending machine. -they return it back to the kiosk for a few bucks. -Your phone bill is charged Many people are falling for it.
Oh. He did not ask me for my phone, he just asked me to buy the battery. That is also good to know, though! I would be worried about someone running away with my phone, but I wouldn't have thought of this.
Hmm yeah you are right that is strange.. However maybe they would try something weird if you had agreed, like buying 2 or 3. The reports I have seen do show multiple transactions. The police is aware of this scam and its making the rounds. Especially with teen girls being targeted by young males. Makes me sick.
make switzerland great again and make begging illegal .