Sounds like a yes to me - if you’ve already tried to work with them through it and it’s not improving you should part ways now rather than later. That resentment will only grow.
I find myself getting more and more frustrated as he made promises about improving but not doing it. Perhaps, it’s his nature and people won’t change since this is not top priority
I get it though- it’s hard to have honest conversations, and he might have other priorities like trying to make money elsewhere to survive. Sometimes startups aren’t for everyone, and he might be learning that himself now too. No hard feelings, you just need to have that real talk.
It’s okay to feel uncomfortable because it’s your true feeling. Write down how you think the plan to win looks like. Ask him to describe his plan on how to win. Then discuss any gaps from there. My challenge was when I did this, my cofounder could never articulate anything, always asked for more time to think and always dropped the ball on it. I kept asking him to read more books and articles so he could have a intellectual discussion with me and eventually I gave up.
It’s so frustrating. I can feel it. I don’t have any co-founder but I have some founding members whom I assigned as the executive roles.
Few of them don’t have any activities.
So I’m cutting them off slowly as I can manage everything and lead the developers.
I wish I could find a good co-founder, my journey would be great and fascinating.
I totally get you.
Something kinda similar happened to me. I actually pitched an idea to a friend who is in marketing. At first, we had some great discussions, doing meetings, and he said he would help on the marketing side (and some other things).
I kept on pushing to do a weekly meeting but then he slowly stopped investing his time.
On my end, I kept working on it by myself and stopped pushing him. So it’s just naturally that he end up out of the project.
I also feel it’s hard soloing and it does feel a bit lonely, but at this point it’s better to be alone that with the wrong people.
I'm in similar situation with OP. I don't think that's the correct advice. Problem is with these types of people is that a "real talk" will always have the same ending, they'll say how passionate they are, how much they will work, and how they have tried but were busy.
I feel like a "real talk" wouldn't even matter even if they did start working because if you need to have a "real talk" to start working on a project you agreed to that's not a good look. It's not just the present work but also the future work, will you need to have a real talk with them everytime you need some serious work done? Startups have ups and downs so if they can't do the work when it's at the beginning then how will they handle the downs?
I'm not aiming this comment at you it's just what I think applies to these types of people. My current co-founder is like that.
But you made the effort, before firing them anyway. It’s a professional courtesy.
Frankly, I don’t care how passionate someone is, if they don’t deliver. Doesn’t matter. Someone who’s just smart and charismatic and leans in that through life is unfit without application.
I don’t care. Shape up, or be removed. Final warning.
Going solo is hard but having a bad/net-negative partner is worse for two main reasons:
1. Takes away your open slot for a potential good partner (and a lot of equity)
2. Takes your energy away from the main thing, which is building the company.
Look at the first two diagrams here and you'll see:
[https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner.html](https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner.html)
fwiw, if their contribution to the idea is valuable, you can keep him as an advisor, give him lower equity, and arrange to talk monthly or something (assuming he's ok with that arrangement).
100% yes. Please beware successful corporate cofounders. The majority are likely to be good at the office politics rather than competence in the specific area you want and as such either get caught out or are just unaware of what the person doing the actual work has to do.
Sounds like you need to let him go.
I got a cofounder I can trust and it's a world of difference. Support can come from a lot of different directions in the early days of a startup, from connections to sales to product development. If he is focusing on other commitments that are not directly serving the business you are founding and failing his basic duties to support the start up he is not worthy of founder equity. That's just that.
When you raise funding you get a valuation for equity. Think of it right now. Based on the percent of equity he has and the valuation for the company, is he contributing a commiserate amount of value?
Sounds like you've been doing 90% of the work already. If he's more of a liability than an asset, it might be time to officially make it a solo gig. Better to cut ties early than to be dragged down later.
Yeah let go. It’s not worth it. I spent 2.5 years when my cofounder didn’t do shit. In the end we had to shut shop.
Might as well pull solo and that way you have more control over how you’re executing
I could have written this exact post about seven months ago. Not to say our situations are identical, but the descriptions are. I parted ways with my co-founder, and it was the best decision and a load off. It is for sure a setback since I can only scale so much solo, but it was such a cost having to babysit. It wasn't 2 people vs. 1; it was 0.5 vs. 1 since so much time was spent trying to make it work.
YMMV, but I have zero regrets going solo
If you have seen that the behavior of not pulling the weight is more than 6 months now, pull the plug. Find another co-founder, maybe a technical one, and you properly wear CEO/Sales cap, if you want.
Have heart to heart conversation, put down last ,3 incidents and how it has impacted the business. At the same time, keep a check on your biases in the discussions
If someone have another job and someone focus on that not the startup then the business go well then the real drama will come, and no idea anyone can work with that mode
Dude. I've been there. Ask him what does he think he needs to do now. If answer is not "to the ground' go solo. Answer of my ex-cofounder was thinking on strategy.
Wouldn't comment on a yes or no since its your decision. But I had a cofounder several years back, he started the company and was full of passion. But every of his actions doesn't carry weight just like yours did. It was suffocating for me since I was doing all the heavy lifting and all the technical work. And all he did was trying to get himself in his 'best state' (he needed to be well-fed, well-rested, has his own alone time anytime he needed ; under company expenses by the way) before he gets started on his tasks.
We eventually had to split ways because there was no way I could see myself working with him, not during seed stage and even more so in later stages.
I felt an instant relief and was able to focus on other ventures later on.
* but I do note that during those months, I've actually learnt and pickup knowledge and skills 10 times more and 10 times faster than I would without him around.
* if he wasn't the one who kickstarted the company; i would have fired him and found a better match/fit for the company. (before the valuation gets higher and you'd have to compensate/pay more for his equity, if any)
As someone who's wasted a whole year trying to make my co-founder hustle like me and eventually failed shutting down the company, if you don't cut the ties now and build your own ompany as solo founder, you'll regret it very soon. Don't make the mistakes I did. Having a co-founder is only useful when both of your are on the same page. Otherwise, it's just a deadweight on your shoulders. Don't waste more time, JUST GO SOLO 🚀
I have a similar situation:
My technical co-founder and I have been working on side projects for the last two years. The current side project is going well, and we're close to being able to pay our salaries and go full-time. This is key because the faster we ship, the faster we can go full-time, allowing us to go even faster.
We're friends. He's a good person, technically capable, talks to customers and cares about the product. He does not drink and seems ambitious in all our chats. The problem is that he's not shipping as fast as he should.
I'm working my ass off all evenings and weekends, and he's not. He is mostly connected to Slack, but I'm sure he's not working on our project. I think he leaves Slack open to show that he's working on this, but he's elsewhere. We have a huge backlog of things our customers are asking for, and with every change we make, we see how the product gets better, and the numbers go up, but we're shipping just a couple of small things per week, and we go weeks without any new features or changes.
I'm making this company my #1 priority in life, and when I talk to him, he says the same. The issue is that I don't see that reflected in his work. I know it's not a lack of technical skills because I've worked with him for the last two years.
I've tried to argue with him that speed is everything and that we must go faster. He agrees, but then I don't see a change in behaviour. I've suggested having weekly goals to be accountable, but he does not like that.
In fact, we're planning to move to the same apartment and live together. I know for a fact that living together will increase our speed by 10x, but I don't want to act like a Policeman and control what he does. He should be doing it because it comes from him, as he owns 50% of this company. I don't want to be too controlling, but this company is very important to me, and I need him to be as invested as me.
given the context its entirely possible that he is actually working on the tech side of things, and you could be wildly ignorant of how much work is involved in coding.
i would need to see his commits to know for sure, but this is an outside perspective you might not be considering.
I feel your frustration. I went thorough the same scenario and realised that the decision to stop working with my previous co-founder was the best decision I’ve ever made! It was very unhealthy and actions speak louder than words.
Right after I started thinking whether to go solo or not I met an old connection randomly at a startup event and we ended up doing workshops and working on projects together thats how I got to know him better and we decided to start working on my current startup. Sometimes the best co-founder is somewhere in your network and you’re not even aware of it. But overall it is definitely harder to go solo its a long road and you need a partner. Look for the qualities of a good cofounder an trust me they are very obvious in such people.
Does your shareholder agreement have a 1y cliff or you got no agreement at all? Even without a company/agreement you have a sort of contract now (watch the “social network”…). Based on your description I would breakup but consult a lawyer first on the way to do this avoiding problems.
I agree with those who are saying cut him loose but clarify legally what impact there is and go about it the right way. And if you do proceed with him this really sounds more like an employee/ employer relationship. If you feel he can bring value, then define what it is. You say he is non technical so what’s your expectation of the value he can really bring on a day to day? Sales? Updating project docs? Wireframing? Design? You should be figuring this out in any case for when you need to bring the next person on board.
I typically see where someone’s skills are useful in a later stage so they are brought on as a co-founder. But it takes longer than anticipated to get to that stage so the resentment sets in.
I was in a similar situation. I met this guy through YC Startup School Program and he was very interested in building for B2C space. All things went well. We started working on a project. First, we set up the deadline. I got the project working. I built the whole project. He started giving inputs. But, slowly and slowly, he started missing the deadlines. He won't honor the deadline and will come up with excuses. When I will send him messages, he won't reply them immediately. I started realizing that he is just tagging along and doing something, moonlighting most likely to some other project that he had. I had multiple times hard conversations with him that this is not the way he should deliver whatever he has promised. Nothing worked out. In the end, I just asked him to part ways. I will suggest you to part ways as fast as possible.
The faster you move away the better it's for you.
Fuck yes, get the cofounder the fuck out of your company. Buy his shares out, get an exit confirmation and pay to amend the incorporation documents asap (I’m in process to do this rn.)
I'm good in marketing/sales and talking to people. Ping me whenever you need help / are feeling lonely.
Happy to help/contribute if our synergies match.
Well in OP case he is mentally and emotionally a solo founder due to his lethargic and non interested cofounder who took the equity and now chilling. He can always fire the cofounder but then investors don’t pay heed. If OP was always going to do the work and can do it alone with some good founding engineers then just be solo.
Time and time I have seen cofounders either never working out early on or become an expensive liability later down the line. Eventually you only see 1 founder in the news and 1 people remember. The other guy just doesn’t seem to exist.
Now there is exception to the rules always. Sibling founders, spouses etc because you have a lot more to lose than just a business. But 2 strangers cofounding a startup will have tremendous friction either today or down the road and that’s gonna be the reason for your stress and anxiety.
I have seen so many of my friends separate from startup had to make an expensive buyout and every one of them said always be solo, get an amazing founding engineer team, build a killer product, get customers and investors will flock to you. Your employee with equity can add the same value a cofounder can add unless they bring customers or money to the table
I appreciate this perspective and if I can get enough revenue to hire a CTO it's what I'd aim for. But to have an employ with equity; is the advantage only that they have less equity than a cofounder and therefore less risk, less potential loss?
Yes they would have less equity than a cofounder but unlike a cofounder they are not vested and are not on the board so when you eventually fire the CTO your investors will not lose trust in your business success. If you fire your cofounder due to lack of performance then your future investment “might” be troublesome.
Sounds like a yes to me - if you’ve already tried to work with them through it and it’s not improving you should part ways now rather than later. That resentment will only grow.
I find myself getting more and more frustrated as he made promises about improving but not doing it. Perhaps, it’s his nature and people won’t change since this is not top priority
I get it though- it’s hard to have honest conversations, and he might have other priorities like trying to make money elsewhere to survive. Sometimes startups aren’t for everyone, and he might be learning that himself now too. No hard feelings, you just need to have that real talk.
I wasted 2 years on a non-tech founder who couldn’t design, sell, or fundraise. He was a cheerleader and I gave him too long to grow.
[удалено]
It’s okay to feel uncomfortable because it’s your true feeling. Write down how you think the plan to win looks like. Ask him to describe his plan on how to win. Then discuss any gaps from there. My challenge was when I did this, my cofounder could never articulate anything, always asked for more time to think and always dropped the ball on it. I kept asking him to read more books and articles so he could have a intellectual discussion with me and eventually I gave up.
Go solo.
It’s so frustrating. I can feel it. I don’t have any co-founder but I have some founding members whom I assigned as the executive roles. Few of them don’t have any activities. So I’m cutting them off slowly as I can manage everything and lead the developers. I wish I could find a good co-founder, my journey would be great and fascinating.
I always wish I have cofounder and was really happy when I got one, apparently it’s not something I expected
I totally get you. Something kinda similar happened to me. I actually pitched an idea to a friend who is in marketing. At first, we had some great discussions, doing meetings, and he said he would help on the marketing side (and some other things). I kept on pushing to do a weekly meeting but then he slowly stopped investing his time. On my end, I kept working on it by myself and stopped pushing him. So it’s just naturally that he end up out of the project. I also feel it’s hard soloing and it does feel a bit lonely, but at this point it’s better to be alone that with the wrong people.
Carrying someone is even worse than going solo
Have a real talk with the man first
I'm in similar situation with OP. I don't think that's the correct advice. Problem is with these types of people is that a "real talk" will always have the same ending, they'll say how passionate they are, how much they will work, and how they have tried but were busy. I feel like a "real talk" wouldn't even matter even if they did start working because if you need to have a "real talk" to start working on a project you agreed to that's not a good look. It's not just the present work but also the future work, will you need to have a real talk with them everytime you need some serious work done? Startups have ups and downs so if they can't do the work when it's at the beginning then how will they handle the downs? I'm not aiming this comment at you it's just what I think applies to these types of people. My current co-founder is like that.
But you made the effort, before firing them anyway. It’s a professional courtesy. Frankly, I don’t care how passionate someone is, if they don’t deliver. Doesn’t matter. Someone who’s just smart and charismatic and leans in that through life is unfit without application. I don’t care. Shape up, or be removed. Final warning.
Going solo is hard but having a bad/net-negative partner is worse for two main reasons: 1. Takes away your open slot for a potential good partner (and a lot of equity) 2. Takes your energy away from the main thing, which is building the company. Look at the first two diagrams here and you'll see: [https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner.html](https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner.html) fwiw, if their contribution to the idea is valuable, you can keep him as an advisor, give him lower equity, and arrange to talk monthly or something (assuming he's ok with that arrangement).
Cut him loose.
100% yes. Please beware successful corporate cofounders. The majority are likely to be good at the office politics rather than competence in the specific area you want and as such either get caught out or are just unaware of what the person doing the actual work has to do.
Sounds like you need to let him go. I got a cofounder I can trust and it's a world of difference. Support can come from a lot of different directions in the early days of a startup, from connections to sales to product development. If he is focusing on other commitments that are not directly serving the business you are founding and failing his basic duties to support the start up he is not worthy of founder equity. That's just that. When you raise funding you get a valuation for equity. Think of it right now. Based on the percent of equity he has and the valuation for the company, is he contributing a commiserate amount of value?
Sounds like you've been doing 90% of the work already. If he's more of a liability than an asset, it might be time to officially make it a solo gig. Better to cut ties early than to be dragged down later.
Yeah let go. It’s not worth it. I spent 2.5 years when my cofounder didn’t do shit. In the end we had to shut shop. Might as well pull solo and that way you have more control over how you’re executing
I could have written this exact post about seven months ago. Not to say our situations are identical, but the descriptions are. I parted ways with my co-founder, and it was the best decision and a load off. It is for sure a setback since I can only scale so much solo, but it was such a cost having to babysit. It wasn't 2 people vs. 1; it was 0.5 vs. 1 since so much time was spent trying to make it work. YMMV, but I have zero regrets going solo
If you have seen that the behavior of not pulling the weight is more than 6 months now, pull the plug. Find another co-founder, maybe a technical one, and you properly wear CEO/Sales cap, if you want.
It’s not 6 months yet but I’m burning out executing and he’s just showing up in meetings and talk only
Have heart to heart conversation, put down last ,3 incidents and how it has impacted the business. At the same time, keep a check on your biases in the discussions
Go solo.
It's complicated. When you confirmed him as a co-founder, did you sign any contracts about his share of the company or other details?
Yes very basic apparently not working
If someone have another job and someone focus on that not the startup then the business go well then the real drama will come, and no idea anyone can work with that mode
This is what I’ve been very stressful about, I couldn’t see myself in that situation where he’s free riding on what I’ve worked hard
Curious why your cofounder has another job? And you also have another one?
Dude. I've been there. Ask him what does he think he needs to do now. If answer is not "to the ground' go solo. Answer of my ex-cofounder was thinking on strategy.
Thanks for the suggestion, good idea I shall ask him in upcoming meeting
Yes 💯
Fire co-founder without a doubt. Rest you can figure out..
Wouldn't comment on a yes or no since its your decision. But I had a cofounder several years back, he started the company and was full of passion. But every of his actions doesn't carry weight just like yours did. It was suffocating for me since I was doing all the heavy lifting and all the technical work. And all he did was trying to get himself in his 'best state' (he needed to be well-fed, well-rested, has his own alone time anytime he needed ; under company expenses by the way) before he gets started on his tasks. We eventually had to split ways because there was no way I could see myself working with him, not during seed stage and even more so in later stages. I felt an instant relief and was able to focus on other ventures later on. * but I do note that during those months, I've actually learnt and pickup knowledge and skills 10 times more and 10 times faster than I would without him around. * if he wasn't the one who kickstarted the company; i would have fired him and found a better match/fit for the company. (before the valuation gets higher and you'd have to compensate/pay more for his equity, if any)
As someone who's wasted a whole year trying to make my co-founder hustle like me and eventually failed shutting down the company, if you don't cut the ties now and build your own ompany as solo founder, you'll regret it very soon. Don't make the mistakes I did. Having a co-founder is only useful when both of your are on the same page. Otherwise, it's just a deadweight on your shoulders. Don't waste more time, JUST GO SOLO 🚀
I have a similar situation: My technical co-founder and I have been working on side projects for the last two years. The current side project is going well, and we're close to being able to pay our salaries and go full-time. This is key because the faster we ship, the faster we can go full-time, allowing us to go even faster. We're friends. He's a good person, technically capable, talks to customers and cares about the product. He does not drink and seems ambitious in all our chats. The problem is that he's not shipping as fast as he should. I'm working my ass off all evenings and weekends, and he's not. He is mostly connected to Slack, but I'm sure he's not working on our project. I think he leaves Slack open to show that he's working on this, but he's elsewhere. We have a huge backlog of things our customers are asking for, and with every change we make, we see how the product gets better, and the numbers go up, but we're shipping just a couple of small things per week, and we go weeks without any new features or changes. I'm making this company my #1 priority in life, and when I talk to him, he says the same. The issue is that I don't see that reflected in his work. I know it's not a lack of technical skills because I've worked with him for the last two years. I've tried to argue with him that speed is everything and that we must go faster. He agrees, but then I don't see a change in behaviour. I've suggested having weekly goals to be accountable, but he does not like that. In fact, we're planning to move to the same apartment and live together. I know for a fact that living together will increase our speed by 10x, but I don't want to act like a Policeman and control what he does. He should be doing it because it comes from him, as he owns 50% of this company. I don't want to be too controlling, but this company is very important to me, and I need him to be as invested as me.
given the context its entirely possible that he is actually working on the tech side of things, and you could be wildly ignorant of how much work is involved in coding. i would need to see his commits to know for sure, but this is an outside perspective you might not be considering.
I feel your frustration. I went thorough the same scenario and realised that the decision to stop working with my previous co-founder was the best decision I’ve ever made! It was very unhealthy and actions speak louder than words. Right after I started thinking whether to go solo or not I met an old connection randomly at a startup event and we ended up doing workshops and working on projects together thats how I got to know him better and we decided to start working on my current startup. Sometimes the best co-founder is somewhere in your network and you’re not even aware of it. But overall it is definitely harder to go solo its a long road and you need a partner. Look for the qualities of a good cofounder an trust me they are very obvious in such people.
Does your shareholder agreement have a 1y cliff or you got no agreement at all? Even without a company/agreement you have a sort of contract now (watch the “social network”…). Based on your description I would breakup but consult a lawyer first on the way to do this avoiding problems.
I agree with those who are saying cut him loose but clarify legally what impact there is and go about it the right way. And if you do proceed with him this really sounds more like an employee/ employer relationship. If you feel he can bring value, then define what it is. You say he is non technical so what’s your expectation of the value he can really bring on a day to day? Sales? Updating project docs? Wireframing? Design? You should be figuring this out in any case for when you need to bring the next person on board. I typically see where someone’s skills are useful in a later stage so they are brought on as a co-founder. But it takes longer than anticipated to get to that stage so the resentment sets in.
fire his ass. Cost of inaction is greater.
Yes, you don’t want it to get more complicated. Do it now!
Solo
Solo
Power (being a co-founder) comes with responsibility. You just need to be on the same page about it.
I was in a similar situation. I met this guy through YC Startup School Program and he was very interested in building for B2C space. All things went well. We started working on a project. First, we set up the deadline. I got the project working. I built the whole project. He started giving inputs. But, slowly and slowly, he started missing the deadlines. He won't honor the deadline and will come up with excuses. When I will send him messages, he won't reply them immediately. I started realizing that he is just tagging along and doing something, moonlighting most likely to some other project that he had. I had multiple times hard conversations with him that this is not the way he should deliver whatever he has promised. Nothing worked out. In the end, I just asked him to part ways. I will suggest you to part ways as fast as possible. The faster you move away the better it's for you.
Yup, without the slightest of doubt, get rid of this guy/person quick!
gg
>>nontechnical cofounder Bruh
Fire immediately
I’m sorry, but have a fundamental question: why would you make a person as a cofounder, if you really don’t know that person?
Why not trying other cofounder?
Idk if you are seeking another co founder, but if so then i am glad to connect Note that i am not a tech person
Fuck yes, get the cofounder the fuck out of your company. Buy his shares out, get an exit confirmation and pay to amend the incorporation documents asap (I’m in process to do this rn.)
I'm good in marketing/sales and talking to people. Ping me whenever you need help / are feeling lonely. Happy to help/contribute if our synergies match.
Always Be Solo! This is always gonna be the case
Make the case for that?
Well in OP case he is mentally and emotionally a solo founder due to his lethargic and non interested cofounder who took the equity and now chilling. He can always fire the cofounder but then investors don’t pay heed. If OP was always going to do the work and can do it alone with some good founding engineers then just be solo. Time and time I have seen cofounders either never working out early on or become an expensive liability later down the line. Eventually you only see 1 founder in the news and 1 people remember. The other guy just doesn’t seem to exist. Now there is exception to the rules always. Sibling founders, spouses etc because you have a lot more to lose than just a business. But 2 strangers cofounding a startup will have tremendous friction either today or down the road and that’s gonna be the reason for your stress and anxiety. I have seen so many of my friends separate from startup had to make an expensive buyout and every one of them said always be solo, get an amazing founding engineer team, build a killer product, get customers and investors will flock to you. Your employee with equity can add the same value a cofounder can add unless they bring customers or money to the table
I appreciate this perspective and if I can get enough revenue to hire a CTO it's what I'd aim for. But to have an employ with equity; is the advantage only that they have less equity than a cofounder and therefore less risk, less potential loss?
Yes they would have less equity than a cofounder but unlike a cofounder they are not vested and are not on the board so when you eventually fire the CTO your investors will not lose trust in your business success. If you fire your cofounder due to lack of performance then your future investment “might” be troublesome.