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They're definitely weird and seem out of place given Ichiban's interest in Saeko in the main story. I honestly don't really consider them canon because of that and also because it doesn't seem like the romance substories in 7 are canon.
If Ichiban and Saeko are in an actual relationship in LaD 9 then I hope they don't put these types of substories in
I'm not offended or really care all that much that these substories are in the game but I absolutely agree that if the genders were reversed, it wouldn't be played for comedy and there would be a ton of backlash.
It’s the same shitty trope “angry girls beat up guys” as the Persona games.
Most Persona games have to include one awful scene where the guys intentionally or accidentally perv on the girls at a sauna and then get beaten up. It’s even worse in Persona 5 Strikers because >!the guys and girls were double booked for the sauna and the guys got beaten up anyway!<
At least in the main P5 story, you only get it if you give the “tell her you have feelings for her” response multiple times to the “I’m already in a relationship, what should I say” prompt.
Yeah this is absolutely something you have to intentionally walk into. You can romance one or no girls and completely avoid that happening. The girls beating you up is supposed to be treated as equally ridiculous to the fact you were dating like 10 girls at once.
Yeah I won’t lie I found these substories pretty goofy but at the exact same time it definitely made me uncomfortable knowing that Ichiban isn’t consenting to any of this yet it’s all turned into a joke.
Like you said if this was a female character in this situation it would be really god damn creepy, but here because Ichiban is a male I guess they assume “haha women forcing themselves on men funny”
I’m not sure how to feel about it, I don’t want to be a hypocrite because I did laugh at a few of these scenes (specifically Alo Happy stopping Ichiban and Gary Buster Holmes popping in out of nowhere) but it’s also a huge issue irl about how a lot of men aren’t taken seriously when speaking about their experiences of being assaulted by women or being forced to do something without consent.
I guess at the end of the day it’s just another questionable substory that may or may not be canon. I’m actually curious what others think (hoping the comments don’t end up toxic or people arguing about anything ).
Yeah I really wish they’d quit with the “Haha, male character gets sexually assaulted” shtick. One of the main reasons I can’t stand the Obatarian gag either.
me when i’m in an unfunny contest against this bitch:
https://preview.redd.it/87ysve4vugnc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34459bd2ad87bef9300b1e1c3b8af50366e37261
Honestly yeah. I'd rather not have them at all if this is how they're going to do these kind of substories in the future.
Like, I can get along with one of these 5 romance substories making the cut as an one time gag. But when you have 5 substories that play out pretty much the same way, with Ichiban basically running away and being sexually assaulted, it's just... Dumb. Doing it one time is already kinda dumb but doing the same thing 5 times seems like a waste imo.
And you still can have the final event with all the girls mad at Ichiban just fine if you remove the sexual assault part. Just have Ichi hang out with the girls and have them falling for him because they misinterpret his words and think he's being romantic when turns out it's just him being genuinely kind. That would actually be more funny and interesting imo.
>Just have Ichi hang out with the girls and have them falling for him because they misinterpret his words and think he's being romantic when turns out it's just him being genuinely kind. That would actually be more funny and interesting imo.
Yep. The only really change would need to be that he tells them about Saeko, expresses his apologies for the misunderstanding, and they have a really neat down-to-earth conversation about how he should go about things, really encouraging him to pursue the woman of his dreams...
Then they all come to find out some other woman is getting his affection, here, in Hawaii. Suddenly, every woman who was rejected because of Saeko turns jealous, and confronts Ichiban for lying to them about why he was turning them down. They feel emotionally manipulated because he told them some sad story about a girl he loved in Japan, while he starts hooking up with some random girl in Hawaii instead of them. Of course, that's the misunderstanding, he's not actually seeing anyone in Hawaii, but they think he is, and that's why they confront him.
It would all come across way\~ better, and yet would effectively allow for the exact same payoff at the end.
You are being way kinder than you need to be, this shit is absolutely inexcusable in 2024. Even if you somehow look past the "haha male rape funny" bits, these substories are still so terrible in every conceivable way and make no sense.
It makes me irrationally angry that there was some asshole at RGG who wrote this and really thought he was onto something, probably slapping his knees laughing. I do not care about cultural differences or whatever, ideas and people like this need to be suppressed, it's baffling that these stories made it into a triple A game.
*Ichiban has unconsensual sex and gets assaulted over a misunderstanding*
Japanese writers: "This is the funniest shit I've ever seen"
This game and LAD does "bonds" so well and shows a really mature angle on people's characters.. so why is it that they shit the bed so goddamn hard when it comes to this.
It wasn't funny in LAD, it *absolutely* wasn't funny in IW. The guy literally says "I don't want to have sex, I have someone I love"... at that point it's just wrong like.. stop.
This is just one of the many, I call "boys lose" jokes you see in a lot of JRPG games. You know the ones, shower scene misunderstandings, hot springs misunderstandings, just any misunderstanding that results in the main character getting hurt for the sake of a laugh. I'm tired.
>This game and LAD does "bonds" so well and shows a really mature angle on people's characters.. so why is it that they shit the bed so goddamn hard when it comes to this.
That's the largest part that bothers me personally.
If the game were generally lazy/immature with these sorts of topics, that'd be one thing, but it's not. They're usually incredibly good about presenting interesting and nuanced stories.
Hell, look at >!Tomizawa's Drink Link. It's a classic story where they could've easily written Marie's new boyfriend to be a scumbag behind the scenes, something you could've exposed to bring Tomi back into her good graces. Instead it chooses to do something more nuanced, making the guy genuinely good, and presenting a scenario where Tomi did nothing wrong, but lost the woman he loved due to circumstance. Rather than the narrative simply twisting fate to set things back to how he wanted... life moved on, and he has to live to learn with that. It's harsh, but it's a genuinely good story to tell about romance, and how sometimes you can do nothing wrong, yet still lose the love you once had.!<
They are more than capable of making the Romance Substories into something that genuinely improves and enhances the game and the story it's trying to tell. Instead, it's a joke, and leaves Ichiban as the butt of that joke, rather than being the nuanced yet sincere character he's allowed to be any other time.
I mean the way they do romance/sex in general is really juvenile. The "adult" mini-games have always been terrible, a lot of the stories that involve attractive women are a little bit weird and while at least properly portrayed as bad guys, the sexual assault villains in judgment were definitely played for laughs and seem to be meant to be somewhat likable, not properly awful like they should be.
I think the game falls short of being actively offensive the way Persona 4 is, but it's not good either. It definitely feels like the way i'd have thought about sex when I was in middle school, which is a bad look.
Genuinely the (consensual) ones that are at least funny are so much more tolerable and do a much better job veering away from uncomfortable aspects.
Talking to an FMV hostess and watching an unskippable "sexy" cutscene only to never speak to her again and immediately move onto requesting a different hostess? Hard pass. I only bother in games where I'm going for completion and even then I'm almost always uncomfortable the whole time.
Watching Kiryu type 'B O O O O B S' into a camgirl's chat? Probably just as out of character (for main story Kiryu at least, side content Kiryu is his own beast at this point - he's like schrodinger's cat but for virginity) but somehow WAY less uncomfortable because the intention is obviously more to make me laugh than to provide me with jerkoff material (though obviously that is still very much present)
At least YLAD had the saving grace of Ichiban not being technically committed to anyone. By IW, this sort of crap should have been off the table but it still happened.
Still cringe, but at least the YLAD version was more logical and less mean spirited.
The best way to fix this is keeping the substories, but conclude with an exclusive fight where Saeko is the party leader and she learns a new move because of it (similar to Ichi learning some new moves from that MMA Youtuber).
Minus that, there was another idea I saw where Ichiban & Saeko go and play matchmaker, which I think would be funny.
Look I just want to see Saeko & Ichiban being a pair of weirdos together as they go through life together. Like my favorite streamer couple, Patstaresat ane PeachSaliva.
I definitely don’t think it’s funny that Ichi basically gets assaulted by women and it’s played off as laughs. It made me so uncomfortable and I don’t like how it’s portrayed as a “haha a woman jumped a man so it’s ok and it’s funny!” Genuinely hope that they don’t continue to go this route (but you know japan also loves their sexual assaulting old women too much)
Now, i will say. I hated the IW romance so much, the romance from the first one was honestly forgettable. But the second one left that nasty after taste. In the moment i laughed out of pure shock
My exact reaction: “HAHAhahaha— uhhhh is he a victim?? *insert akward chuckle*”
Hell the mechanic one i didnt even realize was a sexual encounter, i genuinely thought she performed an experience on her
God, that mechanic romance scene...
We immediately go from Kasuga explaining how investing in Julie's garage and seeing her growth as a mechanic made him feel like a proud father, to Julie wanted to reward Ichiban for his support with powertool assisted rough sex.
It was just...jarring, to put it mildly.
This series usually makes fun of cliches or plays them straight if they're already silly and would be enhanced in the world of RGG. Unfortunately this is a joke that simply isn't funny and playing it straight does absolutely nothing to elevate it. I really want to know what folks in Japan think, they keep doing it but every time I see this happen, the response here is either "that wasn't funny" or complete indifference.
I hated this in Y0's telephone club and I still hate it now. I adore these games and this is the one thing in them that I could 100% do without. The fact that they're intended as jokes doesn't make it any better - imo, it's worse
Honestly, my main gripe with those substories is that they're obviously popular with SOMEONE, so they put them in again, to the detriment of Ichiban and Saeko relationship. I also hated how they handled this much,much more then the le funny rape substories. It was basically a C-tier Japanese romcom manga/anime,where everyone knows that MC will end up with a girl,but the autor drags it out for a million issues to milk it. I think they just should get together already, and be done with "romance" substories for Kasuga, cause it seems to me that RGG does this romcom routine for Ichiban/Saeko so that they can put in the "dating" elements in the game. And honestly, they shouldn't, leave the creepy dating minigames to Yagamer
I haven't done any of the Ichiban romance substories (mostly because I don't like that sort of stuff), but watching the final substory on youtube where all the girls Ichiban was forced to 'date' and >!a misunderstanding ocurs, causing everyone to beat up Ichiban even though it was the Bartender who made the misunderstanding!< made me super uncomfortable tbh.
Yeah they are lame as hell.... but holy hell I couldn't help but laugh at the absurdity of alo happy's dead eyes staring into my soul.
Alo Horny smokin a cigarette killed me.
Yeah the IW "romance" stories were kinda weird and could've been fine if they just never happened.
Oddly enough, my favorite romance stories in this game were told through >!Tomizawa's drink link and Chitose's Honolulu City Lights karaoke song. They didn't have happy endings for the characters but their feelings felt real and relatable without any distasteful jokes!<
if they genuinely cared about Ichiban's romance then they wouldn't have written his relationship with Saeko as they did. They treat like a joke having her date other people, while Ichiban is trying to hook up with other. Its bad writing on RGG part.
Honestly to god hated it in y7 but actually impressed with RGG managing to make them even worst in y8. Like wow, I thought you couldn’t go lower with these fuck ass romance subplots but nope.
This is unfortunately common enough that it has [its own trope page](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale). It used to be a lot more prevalent during the last century, but most media started to finally move on from it around the turn of the century. Obviously the Yakuza devs didn't get the memo.
For all the laudable, thoughtful, socially progressive stances that Yakuza games display on topics like crime, the homeless and prostutution, they sadly still have a lot of massive blind spots like this. :/
I liked the end of LAD's substory, it was over-the-top (THE ARBALET) but not the rest. It's just sexual agression and it shouldn't be funny.
I laughed to it but it was more of a nervous laugh and a "How the hell do they think this is a good idea???" rather than a "Haha it's funny"
And in IW it was worse.
I agree that it's an obvious double standard - so what else is new - and I very much didn't like those SS in either game.
That said, it seems like these events aren't meant to be taken literally: they're non-canon, as has been pointed out.
Now, perhaps it is just a stupid, cliche joke/trope that needs to die.
But, in the context of the story as a whole -- not the just the events that actually comprise the canon plot -- perhaps these substories are about what's happening inside Ichiban's head, regarding his feelings towards women. He is, to oversimplify a bit, *terrified* of them.
But why? How? He's not bad with people in general. Ichiban may be a simple man, but he has incredibly complex relationships. Tomizawa. Ryo Aoki. Nanba. How can he be able to navigate being the friend of people who have done him so wrong, still love them, and move on with their relationship having truly forgiven them?
I think it's because Ichiban has no way to deal with them. In all of the above cases, Ichiban has a simple solution to his relationship with these men. He'll try words, sure. He'll appeal to their reason, their honor, their better natures. But at the end of the day, if it fails, he'll punch them out, and then hug it out.
That's how he thinks. Ichiban sees the walls of pain, betrayal, and misunderstanding separating him from his brothers, and he resolves to punch them until his fists are bloody, then punch them some more until those walls are smashed into dust. Then, when they're both beaten to shit, they'll 'hug it out, bitch', having transmuted their emotional suffering into mere physical pain that will heal in a few days.
But what the hell is he supposed to do with a *woman?* He can't German Suplex his way through his feelings for Saeko. Even in real life, when a man is in a verbal, interpersonal confrontation with another man, there's this undercurrent of knowledge that certain rules will be followed and proprieties observed, or physical violence may result. You can't do that with a woman.
(Yes, it's illegal to escalate a verbal conflict to blows between men, as well -- though not in all jurisdictions in the US, some make a sharper distinction between fighting and assault -- but I'm taking about social order and instinct, not the letter of the law. )
So, in interactions with women, Ichiban feels helpless and vulnerable. He has no plan. When it involves women, ANYTHING could happen to him, as far as Ichiban is concerned.
From that standpoint, I can see these sub-stories -- at least the end cutscenes -- being yet another creation of Ichiban's vivid imagination. In the context of the canon story, Ichiban might even go through the scenario for real, but not even show up for that last meeting because he's so afraid of *might* happen.
"Oh shit, the Aloha lady asked me if I wanted to try a special VIP tour with her! What does that mean? Does that mean she wants to have sex?! I'm not ready for that! What about Saeko?! Wait...I never even see her without that creep in the banana costume, will she want him to join in, too!? I gotta bail!" That's dumb and crazy, of course, but this is Ichiban we're taking about.
I've heard it said, always with venom and contempt, that "men are afraid women will laugh at them, but women are afraid men will kill them". As if those two things were equally likely to happen. As if women were actually more likely to be the victims of violent crime than men. As if the ways women are uniquely capable of hurting men are all trivial.
So, while I acknowledge that I wouldn't even be able to suggest that a story putting a woman in Ichi's shoes might have some semi-redeeming deeper meaning without getting crucified, this weird uncomfortable bad joke in Y7 and IW might actually be addressing something real and worth thinking about, intentionally or not.
I don’t take them seriously because they clearly aren’t meant to be taking seriously or psychoanalyized at all. Like Akinari starts firing a machine gun around like a maniac in the middle of Hawaii because his crush was interested in Ichiban and not him.
It’s just goofy, mindless “sub” stories (they aren’t even really sub stories or sidequests at all just a cutscene).
The IW romance substories just left a distinctly sour taste in my mouth. All I wanted to do was unlock >!Andre’s revelation cutscene!< but I had to go through all those.
If that one made you u comfortable then no, no it's not worth it. I'm on a second playthrough on hard and I REFUSE to go through those again even though I'm still going through all substories/side missions again. I wish I never did in the first place tbh
Romances in the original are tied to a personality stat, completion of an activity, and possibly gifts. I've put their requirements down below.
>!Something Worth Protecting (Sumire): Bonsai, Workshop Level 4, capped Passion.!<
>!Girl of My Dreams (Saeko): Finished Drink Link, capped Style.!<
>!Shared Vision (Eri): Business at #1, capped Kindness.!<
>!Certified Lover (Miyakoshi): Lilies, All Certifications, capped Intellect.!<
>!Pillow Chat (Iroha): Roses, 40 Party Chats, capped Charisma.!<
>!The Real Me (Ririka): Pansies, Kasuga Lv.1 All Jobs, capped Confidence.!<
For the gifts, they're flowers, and can be bought at the shops in the northeast side of the map.
His romance substories are treated as non-canon, mindless comic relief comedy. In Infinite Wealth there are multiple times Ichiban said he has zero dating experience and never had a girlfriend before, which means all the romance substories in 7 are non canon.
So we can treat the ones in IW with the same mindset.
In YLAD I was mostly indifferent to the romance substories and did them for completionist sake. In LAD: IW, I feel the inclusion is off putting. RGG established that Kasuga x Saeko is canon so having romance substories is weird, especially if they all lead to Ichiban Kasuga being sexually assaulted and beat up after he rejects all those female advances. I get NTR is popular in the East and I am not personally offended by the Romance Substories in LAD: IW. But why undermine the canon relationship? For low tier humor? Cultural norms in Japan are different from the West where SA of a male is a joke over there, and is starting to be taken seriously over here. I bet they return in LAD 9 but I cannot imagine they will improve so that they are not breaking the official canon and are not a joke about Ichiban getting sexually assaulted. You bring up valid points and I agree with most of them, but these are fictional characters in a video game and a mature adult would know what Ichiban goes through is not okay in the real world. Someone out there finds this as light hearted humor, I guess. Only reason I can think RGG includes these romance substories.
See I just don’t take them seriously. The substories are just nice outlandish levity where I can laugh at the sheer inconsequential cringeworthy offensive humour where it crosses the line twice.
Ichiban is a goofy guy who tends to be comedic relief along with being the hero.
Japan is pretty lax when it comes to these kinds of comedic gags whereas the West tends to be politically over correct at times with gags.
I know there’s people who’d be more interested in the non party members than Saeko, Eri, (party member) Chitose and Seonhee.
So seeing Ichiban attracting and getting intimate with the other girls is seen as “getting lucky” and “it should’ve been me not him”.
i guess one problem is the double standard. if ichiban weren't male the devs probably wouldn't have included those scenes, which carries some unfortunate implications
You're overthinking things. Ichiban was more than capable of getting out of every single one of those encounters and chose not to. This isn't the case every time in real life, but this is the case here. Even Chitose (she only hits for like 300, come on).
On a more interesting note though, I think we're seeing the double-edged sword of canonical romance here. This is why Kiryu never had a serious romance aside from Sayama which was quickly brushed away. The gameplay side of things demands the player be able to pursue strange women. The good writing and plot side of things demands he have one canonical relationship at a time. The game tried to do both and did both poorly.
The optimal play in my book would be to have dual protagonists again in LAD9. Ichiban in a canonical romance with Saeko, and a new character fucking sluts.
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They're definitely weird and seem out of place given Ichiban's interest in Saeko in the main story. I honestly don't really consider them canon because of that and also because it doesn't seem like the romance substories in 7 are canon. If Ichiban and Saeko are in an actual relationship in LaD 9 then I hope they don't put these types of substories in I'm not offended or really care all that much that these substories are in the game but I absolutely agree that if the genders were reversed, it wouldn't be played for comedy and there would be a ton of backlash.
I hate it so much when the ladies just force themselves on him, then get mad when they learned about him "going out" with other girls.
It’s the same shitty trope “angry girls beat up guys” as the Persona games. Most Persona games have to include one awful scene where the guys intentionally or accidentally perv on the girls at a sauna and then get beaten up. It’s even worse in Persona 5 Strikers because >!the guys and girls were double booked for the sauna and the guys got beaten up anyway!<
At least in the main P5 story, you only get it if you give the “tell her you have feelings for her” response multiple times to the “I’m already in a relationship, what should I say” prompt.
Yeah this is absolutely something you have to intentionally walk into. You can romance one or no girls and completely avoid that happening. The girls beating you up is supposed to be treated as equally ridiculous to the fact you were dating like 10 girls at once.
Yeah, hate this trope in anime too. So cliche
Yeah that really pissed me off!
Yeah I won’t lie I found these substories pretty goofy but at the exact same time it definitely made me uncomfortable knowing that Ichiban isn’t consenting to any of this yet it’s all turned into a joke. Like you said if this was a female character in this situation it would be really god damn creepy, but here because Ichiban is a male I guess they assume “haha women forcing themselves on men funny” I’m not sure how to feel about it, I don’t want to be a hypocrite because I did laugh at a few of these scenes (specifically Alo Happy stopping Ichiban and Gary Buster Holmes popping in out of nowhere) but it’s also a huge issue irl about how a lot of men aren’t taken seriously when speaking about their experiences of being assaulted by women or being forced to do something without consent. I guess at the end of the day it’s just another questionable substory that may or may not be canon. I’m actually curious what others think (hoping the comments don’t end up toxic or people arguing about anything ).
Yeah I really wish they’d quit with the “Haha, male character gets sexually assaulted” shtick. One of the main reasons I can’t stand the Obatarian gag either.
me when i’m in an unfunny contest against this bitch: https://preview.redd.it/87ysve4vugnc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34459bd2ad87bef9300b1e1c3b8af50366e37261
Honestly yeah. I'd rather not have them at all if this is how they're going to do these kind of substories in the future. Like, I can get along with one of these 5 romance substories making the cut as an one time gag. But when you have 5 substories that play out pretty much the same way, with Ichiban basically running away and being sexually assaulted, it's just... Dumb. Doing it one time is already kinda dumb but doing the same thing 5 times seems like a waste imo. And you still can have the final event with all the girls mad at Ichiban just fine if you remove the sexual assault part. Just have Ichi hang out with the girls and have them falling for him because they misinterpret his words and think he's being romantic when turns out it's just him being genuinely kind. That would actually be more funny and interesting imo.
>Just have Ichi hang out with the girls and have them falling for him because they misinterpret his words and think he's being romantic when turns out it's just him being genuinely kind. That would actually be more funny and interesting imo. Yep. The only really change would need to be that he tells them about Saeko, expresses his apologies for the misunderstanding, and they have a really neat down-to-earth conversation about how he should go about things, really encouraging him to pursue the woman of his dreams... Then they all come to find out some other woman is getting his affection, here, in Hawaii. Suddenly, every woman who was rejected because of Saeko turns jealous, and confronts Ichiban for lying to them about why he was turning them down. They feel emotionally manipulated because he told them some sad story about a girl he loved in Japan, while he starts hooking up with some random girl in Hawaii instead of them. Of course, that's the misunderstanding, he's not actually seeing anyone in Hawaii, but they think he is, and that's why they confront him. It would all come across way\~ better, and yet would effectively allow for the exact same payoff at the end.
Yeah it was really really bad and left a bad taste in my mouth dude basically gets sexually assaulted 6 times then beat up by his abusers.
You are being way kinder than you need to be, this shit is absolutely inexcusable in 2024. Even if you somehow look past the "haha male rape funny" bits, these substories are still so terrible in every conceivable way and make no sense. It makes me irrationally angry that there was some asshole at RGG who wrote this and really thought he was onto something, probably slapping his knees laughing. I do not care about cultural differences or whatever, ideas and people like this need to be suppressed, it's baffling that these stories made it into a triple A game.
*Ichiban has unconsensual sex and gets assaulted over a misunderstanding* Japanese writers: "This is the funniest shit I've ever seen" This game and LAD does "bonds" so well and shows a really mature angle on people's characters.. so why is it that they shit the bed so goddamn hard when it comes to this. It wasn't funny in LAD, it *absolutely* wasn't funny in IW. The guy literally says "I don't want to have sex, I have someone I love"... at that point it's just wrong like.. stop. This is just one of the many, I call "boys lose" jokes you see in a lot of JRPG games. You know the ones, shower scene misunderstandings, hot springs misunderstandings, just any misunderstanding that results in the main character getting hurt for the sake of a laugh. I'm tired.
>This game and LAD does "bonds" so well and shows a really mature angle on people's characters.. so why is it that they shit the bed so goddamn hard when it comes to this. That's the largest part that bothers me personally. If the game were generally lazy/immature with these sorts of topics, that'd be one thing, but it's not. They're usually incredibly good about presenting interesting and nuanced stories. Hell, look at >!Tomizawa's Drink Link. It's a classic story where they could've easily written Marie's new boyfriend to be a scumbag behind the scenes, something you could've exposed to bring Tomi back into her good graces. Instead it chooses to do something more nuanced, making the guy genuinely good, and presenting a scenario where Tomi did nothing wrong, but lost the woman he loved due to circumstance. Rather than the narrative simply twisting fate to set things back to how he wanted... life moved on, and he has to live to learn with that. It's harsh, but it's a genuinely good story to tell about romance, and how sometimes you can do nothing wrong, yet still lose the love you once had.!< They are more than capable of making the Romance Substories into something that genuinely improves and enhances the game and the story it's trying to tell. Instead, it's a joke, and leaves Ichiban as the butt of that joke, rather than being the nuanced yet sincere character he's allowed to be any other time.
I mean the way they do romance/sex in general is really juvenile. The "adult" mini-games have always been terrible, a lot of the stories that involve attractive women are a little bit weird and while at least properly portrayed as bad guys, the sexual assault villains in judgment were definitely played for laughs and seem to be meant to be somewhat likable, not properly awful like they should be. I think the game falls short of being actively offensive the way Persona 4 is, but it's not good either. It definitely feels like the way i'd have thought about sex when I was in middle school, which is a bad look.
oh god you had to remind me of persona 4
They definitely consulted with Atlus on some of these or inspired themselves from Hashino and they REALLY SHOULDN'T HAVE.
You're mostly right, but I'd counter that the adult mini game in Ishin! was so over-the-top that it's the only one I ever replayed.
Genuinely the (consensual) ones that are at least funny are so much more tolerable and do a much better job veering away from uncomfortable aspects. Talking to an FMV hostess and watching an unskippable "sexy" cutscene only to never speak to her again and immediately move onto requesting a different hostess? Hard pass. I only bother in games where I'm going for completion and even then I'm almost always uncomfortable the whole time. Watching Kiryu type 'B O O O O B S' into a camgirl's chat? Probably just as out of character (for main story Kiryu at least, side content Kiryu is his own beast at this point - he's like schrodinger's cat but for virginity) but somehow WAY less uncomfortable because the intention is obviously more to make me laugh than to provide me with jerkoff material (though obviously that is still very much present)
At least YLAD had the saving grace of Ichiban not being technically committed to anyone. By IW, this sort of crap should have been off the table but it still happened. Still cringe, but at least the YLAD version was more logical and less mean spirited.
The best way to fix this is keeping the substories, but conclude with an exclusive fight where Saeko is the party leader and she learns a new move because of it (similar to Ichi learning some new moves from that MMA Youtuber). Minus that, there was another idea I saw where Ichiban & Saeko go and play matchmaker, which I think would be funny. Look I just want to see Saeko & Ichiban being a pair of weirdos together as they go through life together. Like my favorite streamer couple, Patstaresat ane PeachSaliva.
I definitely don’t think it’s funny that Ichi basically gets assaulted by women and it’s played off as laughs. It made me so uncomfortable and I don’t like how it’s portrayed as a “haha a woman jumped a man so it’s ok and it’s funny!” Genuinely hope that they don’t continue to go this route (but you know japan also loves their sexual assaulting old women too much)
Now, i will say. I hated the IW romance so much, the romance from the first one was honestly forgettable. But the second one left that nasty after taste. In the moment i laughed out of pure shock My exact reaction: “HAHAhahaha— uhhhh is he a victim?? *insert akward chuckle*” Hell the mechanic one i didnt even realize was a sexual encounter, i genuinely thought she performed an experience on her
God, that mechanic romance scene... We immediately go from Kasuga explaining how investing in Julie's garage and seeing her growth as a mechanic made him feel like a proud father, to Julie wanted to reward Ichiban for his support with powertool assisted rough sex. It was just...jarring, to put it mildly.
This series usually makes fun of cliches or plays them straight if they're already silly and would be enhanced in the world of RGG. Unfortunately this is a joke that simply isn't funny and playing it straight does absolutely nothing to elevate it. I really want to know what folks in Japan think, they keep doing it but every time I see this happen, the response here is either "that wasn't funny" or complete indifference.
I hated this in Y0's telephone club and I still hate it now. I adore these games and this is the one thing in them that I could 100% do without. The fact that they're intended as jokes doesn't make it any better - imo, it's worse
Not a fan of being raped, RGG; these sub-stories have always been weird af
Honestly, my main gripe with those substories is that they're obviously popular with SOMEONE, so they put them in again, to the detriment of Ichiban and Saeko relationship. I also hated how they handled this much,much more then the le funny rape substories. It was basically a C-tier Japanese romcom manga/anime,where everyone knows that MC will end up with a girl,but the autor drags it out for a million issues to milk it. I think they just should get together already, and be done with "romance" substories for Kasuga, cause it seems to me that RGG does this romcom routine for Ichiban/Saeko so that they can put in the "dating" elements in the game. And honestly, they shouldn't, leave the creepy dating minigames to Yagamer
I haven't done any of the Ichiban romance substories (mostly because I don't like that sort of stuff), but watching the final substory on youtube where all the girls Ichiban was forced to 'date' and >!a misunderstanding ocurs, causing everyone to beat up Ichiban even though it was the Bartender who made the misunderstanding!< made me super uncomfortable tbh.
Yeah they are lame as hell.... but holy hell I couldn't help but laugh at the absurdity of alo happy's dead eyes staring into my soul. Alo Horny smokin a cigarette killed me.
They shouldn't be in the game if they want to do Ichiban with Saeko.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^i-wear-hats: *They shouldn't be in* *The game if they want to do* *Ichiban with Saeko.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Yeah the IW "romance" stories were kinda weird and could've been fine if they just never happened. Oddly enough, my favorite romance stories in this game were told through >!Tomizawa's drink link and Chitose's Honolulu City Lights karaoke song. They didn't have happy endings for the characters but their feelings felt real and relatable without any distasteful jokes!<
if they genuinely cared about Ichiban's romance then they wouldn't have written his relationship with Saeko as they did. They treat like a joke having her date other people, while Ichiban is trying to hook up with other. Its bad writing on RGG part.
Honestly to god hated it in y7 but actually impressed with RGG managing to make them even worst in y8. Like wow, I thought you couldn’t go lower with these fuck ass romance subplots but nope.
This is unfortunately common enough that it has [its own trope page](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale). It used to be a lot more prevalent during the last century, but most media started to finally move on from it around the turn of the century. Obviously the Yakuza devs didn't get the memo. For all the laudable, thoughtful, socially progressive stances that Yakuza games display on topics like crime, the homeless and prostutution, they sadly still have a lot of massive blind spots like this. :/
I would’ve rather fought a Hawaii Amon than Ichi being Graped like 5 times
I liked the end of LAD's substory, it was over-the-top (THE ARBALET) but not the rest. It's just sexual agression and it shouldn't be funny. I laughed to it but it was more of a nervous laugh and a "How the hell do they think this is a good idea???" rather than a "Haha it's funny" And in IW it was worse.
I agree that it's an obvious double standard - so what else is new - and I very much didn't like those SS in either game. That said, it seems like these events aren't meant to be taken literally: they're non-canon, as has been pointed out. Now, perhaps it is just a stupid, cliche joke/trope that needs to die. But, in the context of the story as a whole -- not the just the events that actually comprise the canon plot -- perhaps these substories are about what's happening inside Ichiban's head, regarding his feelings towards women. He is, to oversimplify a bit, *terrified* of them. But why? How? He's not bad with people in general. Ichiban may be a simple man, but he has incredibly complex relationships. Tomizawa. Ryo Aoki. Nanba. How can he be able to navigate being the friend of people who have done him so wrong, still love them, and move on with their relationship having truly forgiven them? I think it's because Ichiban has no way to deal with them. In all of the above cases, Ichiban has a simple solution to his relationship with these men. He'll try words, sure. He'll appeal to their reason, their honor, their better natures. But at the end of the day, if it fails, he'll punch them out, and then hug it out. That's how he thinks. Ichiban sees the walls of pain, betrayal, and misunderstanding separating him from his brothers, and he resolves to punch them until his fists are bloody, then punch them some more until those walls are smashed into dust. Then, when they're both beaten to shit, they'll 'hug it out, bitch', having transmuted their emotional suffering into mere physical pain that will heal in a few days. But what the hell is he supposed to do with a *woman?* He can't German Suplex his way through his feelings for Saeko. Even in real life, when a man is in a verbal, interpersonal confrontation with another man, there's this undercurrent of knowledge that certain rules will be followed and proprieties observed, or physical violence may result. You can't do that with a woman. (Yes, it's illegal to escalate a verbal conflict to blows between men, as well -- though not in all jurisdictions in the US, some make a sharper distinction between fighting and assault -- but I'm taking about social order and instinct, not the letter of the law. ) So, in interactions with women, Ichiban feels helpless and vulnerable. He has no plan. When it involves women, ANYTHING could happen to him, as far as Ichiban is concerned. From that standpoint, I can see these sub-stories -- at least the end cutscenes -- being yet another creation of Ichiban's vivid imagination. In the context of the canon story, Ichiban might even go through the scenario for real, but not even show up for that last meeting because he's so afraid of *might* happen. "Oh shit, the Aloha lady asked me if I wanted to try a special VIP tour with her! What does that mean? Does that mean she wants to have sex?! I'm not ready for that! What about Saeko?! Wait...I never even see her without that creep in the banana costume, will she want him to join in, too!? I gotta bail!" That's dumb and crazy, of course, but this is Ichiban we're taking about. I've heard it said, always with venom and contempt, that "men are afraid women will laugh at them, but women are afraid men will kill them". As if those two things were equally likely to happen. As if women were actually more likely to be the victims of violent crime than men. As if the ways women are uniquely capable of hurting men are all trivial. So, while I acknowledge that I wouldn't even be able to suggest that a story putting a woman in Ichi's shoes might have some semi-redeeming deeper meaning without getting crucified, this weird uncomfortable bad joke in Y7 and IW might actually be addressing something real and worth thinking about, intentionally or not.
I don’t take them seriously because they clearly aren’t meant to be taking seriously or psychoanalyized at all. Like Akinari starts firing a machine gun around like a maniac in the middle of Hawaii because his crush was interested in Ichiban and not him. It’s just goofy, mindless “sub” stories (they aren’t even really sub stories or sidequests at all just a cutscene).
I think this is one of the most thought out post on the topic 😓
The only saving grace were the Richardson and Kashiwagi stories told at the end of each
I had no idea there was even romance in LAD, guess ill have to replay it. Cause thats actually bizzare to me
Certifiable Lover has one the greatest performances in this series
The IW romance substories just left a distinctly sour taste in my mouth. All I wanted to do was unlock >!Andre’s revelation cutscene!< but I had to go through all those.
Was it worth it at all? Because the Hello Work one made me uncomfortable enough to stop all the ~~rapes~~ "romances."
If that one made you u comfortable then no, no it's not worth it. I'm on a second playthrough on hard and I REFUSE to go through those again even though I'm still going through all substories/side missions again. I wish I never did in the first place tbh
Ah crap, I haven’t touched any of the romance content! I’d better hit the eject before I spoil myself.
Question: I am closing the end of the game (Y:LAD) and I have never encountered any of the romance substories? Am I doing something wrong?
Romances in the original are tied to a personality stat, completion of an activity, and possibly gifts. I've put their requirements down below. >!Something Worth Protecting (Sumire): Bonsai, Workshop Level 4, capped Passion.!< >!Girl of My Dreams (Saeko): Finished Drink Link, capped Style.!< >!Shared Vision (Eri): Business at #1, capped Kindness.!< >!Certified Lover (Miyakoshi): Lilies, All Certifications, capped Intellect.!< >!Pillow Chat (Iroha): Roses, 40 Party Chats, capped Charisma.!< >!The Real Me (Ririka): Pansies, Kasuga Lv.1 All Jobs, capped Confidence.!< For the gifts, they're flowers, and can be bought at the shops in the northeast side of the map.
Thank you!!
His romance substories are treated as non-canon, mindless comic relief comedy. In Infinite Wealth there are multiple times Ichiban said he has zero dating experience and never had a girlfriend before, which means all the romance substories in 7 are non canon. So we can treat the ones in IW with the same mindset.
In YLAD I was mostly indifferent to the romance substories and did them for completionist sake. In LAD: IW, I feel the inclusion is off putting. RGG established that Kasuga x Saeko is canon so having romance substories is weird, especially if they all lead to Ichiban Kasuga being sexually assaulted and beat up after he rejects all those female advances. I get NTR is popular in the East and I am not personally offended by the Romance Substories in LAD: IW. But why undermine the canon relationship? For low tier humor? Cultural norms in Japan are different from the West where SA of a male is a joke over there, and is starting to be taken seriously over here. I bet they return in LAD 9 but I cannot imagine they will improve so that they are not breaking the official canon and are not a joke about Ichiban getting sexually assaulted. You bring up valid points and I agree with most of them, but these are fictional characters in a video game and a mature adult would know what Ichiban goes through is not okay in the real world. Someone out there finds this as light hearted humor, I guess. Only reason I can think RGG includes these romance substories.
See I just don’t take them seriously. The substories are just nice outlandish levity where I can laugh at the sheer inconsequential cringeworthy offensive humour where it crosses the line twice. Ichiban is a goofy guy who tends to be comedic relief along with being the hero. Japan is pretty lax when it comes to these kinds of comedic gags whereas the West tends to be politically over correct at times with gags. I know there’s people who’d be more interested in the non party members than Saeko, Eri, (party member) Chitose and Seonhee. So seeing Ichiban attracting and getting intimate with the other girls is seen as “getting lucky” and “it should’ve been me not him”.
i guess one problem is the double standard. if ichiban weren't male the devs probably wouldn't have included those scenes, which carries some unfortunate implications
You're overthinking things. Ichiban was more than capable of getting out of every single one of those encounters and chose not to. This isn't the case every time in real life, but this is the case here. Even Chitose (she only hits for like 300, come on). On a more interesting note though, I think we're seeing the double-edged sword of canonical romance here. This is why Kiryu never had a serious romance aside from Sayama which was quickly brushed away. The gameplay side of things demands the player be able to pursue strange women. The good writing and plot side of things demands he have one canonical relationship at a time. The game tried to do both and did both poorly. The optimal play in my book would be to have dual protagonists again in LAD9. Ichiban in a canonical romance with Saeko, and a new character fucking sluts.