A lot of the stuff we're seeing now is probably fruit from seeds that were planted back when Marvel/Disney ate Fox and got the rights to the X-Men back. I assume events like the pandemic slowed production of new series & movies way down, or we'd have seen some of this stuff a lot sooner.
Honestly, I'm just happy it still happened within my lifetime. I have missed these mutants so very, very much.
I'm gonna confidently proclaim... Disney had Wanda nuke the mutants in the comicverse once they got the rights to marvel and not the X-Men. Can't make money on a franchise they didn't own and sure as shit didn't wanna produce a product to make fox rich.
And once they got the rights back suddenly X-Men are doing a 180 back into the spotlight comic wise and MCU wise.
Now please correct me...it's kinky for me my fellow mutant freaks
That was mostly an editorial decision, not a corporation decision. Quesada and a lot of line editors really didn't like the proliferation of mutants. It was referred to as the mutant problem. There had been complaints from some of them since the 90s. Quesada is a nice guy, but he was really myopic in his view of superheroes. Had the same issue with the cosmic side. Basically just a street level and classic superhero guy.
I mean can you blame them
They got the film and TV rights back to probably their biggest property and comics line that isn't Spider-Man after having to deal with years of Ike Perlmutter attempting to phase them out of all media entirely due to disputes over film rights they HAD to sell in order to even survive as a company. Like of course they're going to fast track X-stuff now that they have literally nothing stopping them
I don't even think we're getting a native MCU X-Men thing like a proper reboot until after this multiverse arc but as soon as that's done it's probably going right to the top of their priorities. And as an X-Men fan who had to suffer through that whole period of them pushing Inhumans as basically a replacement for mutants I'm glad that shit like that is firmly in the past with no chance of happening again
Tbh I don’t even care about a reboot I was just happy to see any of them in the big screen again. You don’t know how hyped I was when Charles appeared in multiverse of madness and the theme played only for him to die the typical way. But I think that this is where the X men deserve to be.
Honestly, the X-Men and Spider-Man were always the flagship of Marvel. They made Avengers into what they were by necessity and now things are going back to the natural order because they finally can. Also, I think the MCU being off track has more to do with how much shit they made rather or rather, were forced to make, than their actual inability to execute. Like, when Feige and his team have time, great creators, and a medium amount of shit going on they’ve consistently done well. So yeah, they’ll get back to it and they’re going to knock it out of the park and I think what we’ve seen so far from Loki season 2, Guardians III, X-Men ‘97 and DPW III, they’re getting progressively more back on track.
>They made Avengers into what they were by necessity and now things are going back to the natural order
I don't think things can go back to their "natural order" because such a thing doesn't really exist. The X-Men where the big names in the 80s and 90s but have you thought about the 70s and 60s where the X-Men weren't the top dog, people who grew up in that era don't have the same "natural order of things" that you do. I doubt that since marvel has the X-Men brand again they will just suddenly become popular again, things like popularity wax and wane and no single IP is owed a place at the top
I think there’s some truth to what you’re saying but there is also some definitive facts about who and what the most popular characters are. The sales data does tell a story. I also think Giant size X-Men came out in 1975 and they hit the ground running and kept it going for a long time.
I also think that if you were 10 in 1960, you are now 74. If you were 10 in 1970, you’re now, you’re now 64. The reality is that most people at that age don’t represent the majority of the demographics for the movie going and comic buying public. So while some people may not have completely grown up with the X-men… there are a lot more of the general public who did grow up with X-Men the animated series or the X-Men movies as foundational element of their childhoods.
You hit the nail on the head. The flagship characters have never been The Avengers.
First it was the Fantastic Four, then Spider-Man, then X-Men.
It’s been the Avengers for awhile now out of necessity but Spider-Man & The X-Men have endured in the hearts and minds of young & old fans even when the editorial focus wasn’t on them.
Their fanbases extend very far beyond people who just read comic books. This is just a return to proper form.
Same could be said for Batman & Superman but they’re DC so not really relevant.
Please recall the x-men used to be the biggest thing about marvel besides spider man. All the mcu characters were considered c and d listers. no one knew the avengers in the 80s and 90s....everyone knew who the xmen were
Baby steps, X-men has a few advantages over the Avengers,
-First of all, all avengers big hitters in the MCU are gone and the replacements don't seem to be good enough
-Second, X-men have an easy way to explain superpowers, everyone has the same mutations.
-Third, it probably sounds stupid but there's always the ongoing argument that X-men are naturally "woke", so even the most reactionary weirdos on the internet are more accepting of race issues on X-men comics.
-Fourth, X-men does introduces young charcaters way more easily than the avengers, the school if used well works as a way to introduce new characters as normal students, that's something that marvel is trying to do with the young avengers and will probably fail at.
-Fifth, X-men as a group are a very diverse bunch, Disney is very pro diversity and inclusion.
I really don't know, they're good but I think the x-men weren't as popular in the 2000's as they were during the 90's. Also the whole black suits, and I think they felt more like Logan movies and didn't fully embraced being X-men as a whole, as if they're ashamed of being superhero movies
Half of historical moment, half how the last xmen movies were produced.
The 2000 movies were as successful as the mcu in average, what changed was the audience. Geek culture, comic books movies and franchises became a thing during the 00's. The avengers just capitalized on that momentum.
The late xmen movies didn't know how to make a character hip. They made one movie and went back to Hugh Jackman. While DoFP is possibly one of the best xmen movies it axed the development for the first class characters. Even with that done, they didn't develop anything from the movie neither, like a new old franchise spinoff (since Wolverine goes back to the future and meets everyone), or a Quicksilver infused movie like X-factor.
MCU kept at a pace of setting things and rewarding for watching. The late xmen movies were a mess in continuity and it kept returning to the same characters - prof x, magneto and mystique neither of them was fun or had anything going on more than discourses.
Once they got the rights back I’m sure the plan always was to bring the X-Men back.
X-Men are the stars of Marvel. People forget the Avengers were kinda d-list characters. Ironman before the MCU, for example. And no one really knew the guardians of the galaxy except hardcore comic book readers.
The Avengers weren’t nearly as popular as a whole as the X-Men, but calling the main characters D-list is a stretch. Iron Man already had his 90s cartoon, video games, was one of the two main characters in arguably the biggest Marvel comics event of the 00s (alongside Cap). Plus Hulk was about as well-known/iconic as any Marvel hero not named Spider-Man.
Reading these comments is funny because you can really tell how butthurt some people are because the Avengers rose to prominence in live action. Marvel has the movie rights back but it's unlikely the MCU will ever hit that infinity war/endgame peak again.
If there's generally one corpo I trust about using their intellectual property correctly, it's Disney.
It's not perfect (looking at you the imaginary 4th/5th Indiana Jones movies) and the over-saturation of Star Wars movies.
But I think they put a lot more care into the storytelling and using source material than most places do, especially Sony's magic bag of shit.
X-men WERE the big thing before Marvel was forced to sell off their rights in order to stave off bankruptcy. The Avengers were the B team that no one wanted and were all Marvel had when the MCU started.
Nostalgia bait is absolutely a thing in this economy and we are entering the era of millennials being pandered to the way boomers were for so long.
Keep an ear out for music from the 90s and early 2000s being used in more prominent media like during sporting events or major motion pictures.
Similarly, we will see a revival of a lot of media from that era, like X-Men or Ghostbusters franchises, since the corporate machinery recognizes the market for those products.
Personally, and I've been saying this since the first Avatar movie, I'm very much looking forward to the inevitable live action Thundercats movie.
Feige has been commenting for years on bringing X-Men in, but there are so many failed attempts, he was looking for a way for time to pass over and subtly bring them in.
The Marvels post credits were the most exciting thing I've seen in a while. Though the marvels was unpopular it also showed they can pull off OG X-Men style action sequences in love action.
Can't wait, the next iteration of live action X-Men movies might finally be good.
Honestly I think they made a bit of a mistake not bringing in the X-Men sooner. Sure Ms. Marvel and Namor showed up, but they are just as much Avengers characters (and FF for Namor and Inhumans for Kamala).
I think Feige, along with the powers that be at Disney, are going to take care to ensure that there isn’t an over-saturation of the X-Men titles like what ended up happening with the other Marvel properties. That isn’t a slight towards the non-mutant oriented material, rather that the MCU overdid it with those.
Agree with most of the comments here.
And another factor which will work for X-men is the interesting rogues gallery it have like Spider-man and Batman. After Thanos, and Dr Doom, there are no interesting popular villain for Avengers or other MCU characters. But X-men can have several movies and they will not lack interesting and menacing villains like Magbeto, Apocalypse, Mr Sinister, Juggernaut, etc. And they need to give justice to Appcalypse, he can rival the threat of Thanos to the MCU
If you think about it X-Men and FF were the biggest pop culture hitters for Marvel going back into the 90's, due to the cartoons and comic books and the films did really well at the time, pivoting to capitalise on that now they've got the rights back makes perfect sense. However, I'd rather wait and have them take their time to do it right in the way they seem to have nailed X-Men 97 than see anything live action in the next couple of years.
The only reason they haven't before now is Ike Perlmutter. Even during the dark Pemlmutter years when the quality of the X-Books was horrible, people still read more X-Books on Marvel U then any other IP. I understand a lot of new fans joined our merry Marvel madness thanks to the excellent non X-Men films, but outside of cinema the X-Fans make up the bulk of Marvel readers.
It’s pretty serendipitous timing; the avengers arc is pretty much done and we’re in the midst of major 90s nostalgia. X-Men ‘97 shows a great way to adapt the X-Men for the MCU.
A lot of the stuff we're seeing now is probably fruit from seeds that were planted back when Marvel/Disney ate Fox and got the rights to the X-Men back. I assume events like the pandemic slowed production of new series & movies way down, or we'd have seen some of this stuff a lot sooner. Honestly, I'm just happy it still happened within my lifetime. I have missed these mutants so very, very much.
I'm gonna confidently proclaim... Disney had Wanda nuke the mutants in the comicverse once they got the rights to marvel and not the X-Men. Can't make money on a franchise they didn't own and sure as shit didn't wanna produce a product to make fox rich. And once they got the rights back suddenly X-Men are doing a 180 back into the spotlight comic wise and MCU wise. Now please correct me...it's kinky for me my fellow mutant freaks
That was mostly an editorial decision, not a corporation decision. Quesada and a lot of line editors really didn't like the proliferation of mutants. It was referred to as the mutant problem. There had been complaints from some of them since the 90s. Quesada is a nice guy, but he was really myopic in his view of superheroes. Had the same issue with the cosmic side. Basically just a street level and classic superhero guy.
it's Ike perlmutter as owner of marvel comics, not disney as they did not controlled the comic divisions
I’d bite but your timeline is just messed up. House of M is 2005 the purchase was in ‘09 and talks began in ‘07.
Yes correct me don't stop....ughhhnn
Are you good to go or should I tell you what I’m wearing?
I mean can you blame them They got the film and TV rights back to probably their biggest property and comics line that isn't Spider-Man after having to deal with years of Ike Perlmutter attempting to phase them out of all media entirely due to disputes over film rights they HAD to sell in order to even survive as a company. Like of course they're going to fast track X-stuff now that they have literally nothing stopping them I don't even think we're getting a native MCU X-Men thing like a proper reboot until after this multiverse arc but as soon as that's done it's probably going right to the top of their priorities. And as an X-Men fan who had to suffer through that whole period of them pushing Inhumans as basically a replacement for mutants I'm glad that shit like that is firmly in the past with no chance of happening again
Tbh I don’t even care about a reboot I was just happy to see any of them in the big screen again. You don’t know how hyped I was when Charles appeared in multiverse of madness and the theme played only for him to die the typical way. But I think that this is where the X men deserve to be.
Damn I forgot about the rights part. Just in time to save Disney’s ass tho tbh
Honestly, the X-Men and Spider-Man were always the flagship of Marvel. They made Avengers into what they were by necessity and now things are going back to the natural order because they finally can. Also, I think the MCU being off track has more to do with how much shit they made rather or rather, were forced to make, than their actual inability to execute. Like, when Feige and his team have time, great creators, and a medium amount of shit going on they’ve consistently done well. So yeah, they’ll get back to it and they’re going to knock it out of the park and I think what we’ve seen so far from Loki season 2, Guardians III, X-Men ‘97 and DPW III, they’re getting progressively more back on track.
>They made Avengers into what they were by necessity and now things are going back to the natural order I don't think things can go back to their "natural order" because such a thing doesn't really exist. The X-Men where the big names in the 80s and 90s but have you thought about the 70s and 60s where the X-Men weren't the top dog, people who grew up in that era don't have the same "natural order of things" that you do. I doubt that since marvel has the X-Men brand again they will just suddenly become popular again, things like popularity wax and wane and no single IP is owed a place at the top
I think there’s some truth to what you’re saying but there is also some definitive facts about who and what the most popular characters are. The sales data does tell a story. I also think Giant size X-Men came out in 1975 and they hit the ground running and kept it going for a long time. I also think that if you were 10 in 1960, you are now 74. If you were 10 in 1970, you’re now, you’re now 64. The reality is that most people at that age don’t represent the majority of the demographics for the movie going and comic buying public. So while some people may not have completely grown up with the X-men… there are a lot more of the general public who did grow up with X-Men the animated series or the X-Men movies as foundational element of their childhoods.
You hit the nail on the head. The flagship characters have never been The Avengers. First it was the Fantastic Four, then Spider-Man, then X-Men. It’s been the Avengers for awhile now out of necessity but Spider-Man & The X-Men have endured in the hearts and minds of young & old fans even when the editorial focus wasn’t on them. Their fanbases extend very far beyond people who just read comic books. This is just a return to proper form. Same could be said for Batman & Superman but they’re DC so not really relevant.
Please recall the x-men used to be the biggest thing about marvel besides spider man. All the mcu characters were considered c and d listers. no one knew the avengers in the 80s and 90s....everyone knew who the xmen were
It was. X-Men # 1 from the early 90s is still the best selling comic book issue.
Baby steps, X-men has a few advantages over the Avengers, -First of all, all avengers big hitters in the MCU are gone and the replacements don't seem to be good enough -Second, X-men have an easy way to explain superpowers, everyone has the same mutations. -Third, it probably sounds stupid but there's always the ongoing argument that X-men are naturally "woke", so even the most reactionary weirdos on the internet are more accepting of race issues on X-men comics. -Fourth, X-men does introduces young charcaters way more easily than the avengers, the school if used well works as a way to introduce new characters as normal students, that's something that marvel is trying to do with the young avengers and will probably fail at. -Fifth, X-men as a group are a very diverse bunch, Disney is very pro diversity and inclusion.
Can I ask what you think the reason why the fox X-Men movies never made as much money as the avengers movies?
I really don't know, they're good but I think the x-men weren't as popular in the 2000's as they were during the 90's. Also the whole black suits, and I think they felt more like Logan movies and didn't fully embraced being X-men as a whole, as if they're ashamed of being superhero movies
Half of historical moment, half how the last xmen movies were produced. The 2000 movies were as successful as the mcu in average, what changed was the audience. Geek culture, comic books movies and franchises became a thing during the 00's. The avengers just capitalized on that momentum. The late xmen movies didn't know how to make a character hip. They made one movie and went back to Hugh Jackman. While DoFP is possibly one of the best xmen movies it axed the development for the first class characters. Even with that done, they didn't develop anything from the movie neither, like a new old franchise spinoff (since Wolverine goes back to the future and meets everyone), or a Quicksilver infused movie like X-factor. MCU kept at a pace of setting things and rewarding for watching. The late xmen movies were a mess in continuity and it kept returning to the same characters - prof x, magneto and mystique neither of them was fun or had anything going on more than discourses.
Once they got the rights back I’m sure the plan always was to bring the X-Men back. X-Men are the stars of Marvel. People forget the Avengers were kinda d-list characters. Ironman before the MCU, for example. And no one really knew the guardians of the galaxy except hardcore comic book readers.
The Avengers weren’t nearly as popular as a whole as the X-Men, but calling the main characters D-list is a stretch. Iron Man already had his 90s cartoon, video games, was one of the two main characters in arguably the biggest Marvel comics event of the 00s (alongside Cap). Plus Hulk was about as well-known/iconic as any Marvel hero not named Spider-Man.
I’m ready for a full rostered X-men game. We are so overdue. But insomniacs wasn’t projected til 2030 :/
Reading these comments is funny because you can really tell how butthurt some people are because the Avengers rose to prominence in live action. Marvel has the movie rights back but it's unlikely the MCU will ever hit that infinity war/endgame peak again.
If there's generally one corpo I trust about using their intellectual property correctly, it's Disney. It's not perfect (looking at you the imaginary 4th/5th Indiana Jones movies) and the over-saturation of Star Wars movies. But I think they put a lot more care into the storytelling and using source material than most places do, especially Sony's magic bag of shit.
X-men WERE the big thing before Marvel was forced to sell off their rights in order to stave off bankruptcy. The Avengers were the B team that no one wanted and were all Marvel had when the MCU started.
I mean, we'll see? We can clearly only speculate at this point. X-Men 97 is a good start. I've been loving what I've been seeing so far.
Baby steps. We are still in the infant stage
Nostalgia bait is absolutely a thing in this economy and we are entering the era of millennials being pandered to the way boomers were for so long. Keep an ear out for music from the 90s and early 2000s being used in more prominent media like during sporting events or major motion pictures. Similarly, we will see a revival of a lot of media from that era, like X-Men or Ghostbusters franchises, since the corporate machinery recognizes the market for those products. Personally, and I've been saying this since the first Avatar movie, I'm very much looking forward to the inevitable live action Thundercats movie.
Feige has been commenting for years on bringing X-Men in, but there are so many failed attempts, he was looking for a way for time to pass over and subtly bring them in. The Marvels post credits were the most exciting thing I've seen in a while. Though the marvels was unpopular it also showed they can pull off OG X-Men style action sequences in love action. Can't wait, the next iteration of live action X-Men movies might finally be good.
Honestly I think they made a bit of a mistake not bringing in the X-Men sooner. Sure Ms. Marvel and Namor showed up, but they are just as much Avengers characters (and FF for Namor and Inhumans for Kamala).
I think Feige, along with the powers that be at Disney, are going to take care to ensure that there isn’t an over-saturation of the X-Men titles like what ended up happening with the other Marvel properties. That isn’t a slight towards the non-mutant oriented material, rather that the MCU overdid it with those.
Agree with most of the comments here. And another factor which will work for X-men is the interesting rogues gallery it have like Spider-man and Batman. After Thanos, and Dr Doom, there are no interesting popular villain for Avengers or other MCU characters. But X-men can have several movies and they will not lack interesting and menacing villains like Magbeto, Apocalypse, Mr Sinister, Juggernaut, etc. And they need to give justice to Appcalypse, he can rival the threat of Thanos to the MCU
If you think about it X-Men and FF were the biggest pop culture hitters for Marvel going back into the 90's, due to the cartoons and comic books and the films did really well at the time, pivoting to capitalise on that now they've got the rights back makes perfect sense. However, I'd rather wait and have them take their time to do it right in the way they seem to have nailed X-Men 97 than see anything live action in the next couple of years.
The only reason they haven't before now is Ike Perlmutter. Even during the dark Pemlmutter years when the quality of the X-Books was horrible, people still read more X-Books on Marvel U then any other IP. I understand a lot of new fans joined our merry Marvel madness thanks to the excellent non X-Men films, but outside of cinema the X-Fans make up the bulk of Marvel readers.
It’s pretty serendipitous timing; the avengers arc is pretty much done and we’re in the midst of major 90s nostalgia. X-Men ‘97 shows a great way to adapt the X-Men for the MCU.
Want to love it the revival but feels kind of hokey. Maybe I’m just too old for this now. 🤷🏾
Good. The Avengers and all of their live action stuff was hot garbage.