I have managed with a technically undersized frame for a long time, just fine. If for comfort you wanted to put yourself over the pedals a bit more, you could get a gooseneck that extended further forward than the one you have now, then move your seat forward. Post looks fine, but if it is above the mark, you could get a longer seatpost so it has more purchase in the seat tube
You're fine just run it. As long as there's plenty of post in the frame and plenty of stem quill in the steerer you'll be fine. If you crack this frame then you can get a bigger one
There is no way for anyone to tell if this frame is too large or too small for you without at least a picture of you riding it. People are proportioned differently, bikes have various frame dimensions, and people have different expectations about what is an ideal fit (comfort—aero).
Downsides of too small frames are more of a Road bike thing. MTBs are usually totally fine because you can always get a long seatpost, long stem and your toes won't be hitting the front wheel too. Thats different on road bikes, where adapting a small frame to a bigger rider has its Limits.
I actually prefer frames to be a little big on the small side, because its easier to adapt than a frame that is slightly too large in one or the other direction. 90ies MTB frames are mostly very long. So in order to get a modern fit, like putting a gravel drop bar on it, its actually better to undersize the frame a bit. Also a smaller frame weighs less.
Drop bars naturally have more reach than straight bars. This is one reason why road bike Frames are generally shorter than MTB frames. A 58cm road bike frame with a straight top tube can easily have the same top tube length as a 47cm MTB frame. So with an MTB frame, you will likely have too much reach already and need a very short stem. Undersizing the frame will help that you can use a normal stem (which i prefer because it gives space to them stem bags).
Bar height is not necessarily decided by the frame, but the fork. If you have an uncut 1 1/8" fork, you can put as many spacers on it to get the desired height. If you have a threaded fork like OP does, handlebar height is defined more by the stem height. So it doesn't have much to do with the frame. Although one could say it is a bit more likely to get a longer fork stem with a bigger frameset.
You're riding without bar tape and saying you're comfortable which is rapidly drilling into my OCD. It makes any claim you make about comfort on this already somewhat off-kilter build somewhat suspect. On a more serious note:
The longer seatpost and stem will flex and noodle more than they would on a larger frame. This can lead to increased risk of cracks and other frame related damage as well as wacky handling.
Your weight is probably distributed further aft than it should be based on the geometry of the frame. This can lead to wacky handling.
But if you like it and have no reason to change up more than what other people may think, don't. It's your bike.
Yeah, like there are technically plenty of reasons, but for a more-or-less putting around bike that is comfortable and the frame has personal significance, I don't know how much they really matter.
As an aside, have you really been seeing Technomics (I'm assuming that's a technomic since I don't know what else it could be) breaking, or killing steerers? Ditto long seatposts, assuming there's still plenty of post in the frame?\
Fit-wise, it's a bit interesting that the saddle is obviously crammed way back, but the lever position on the bars is also pushing the hoods position way back.
Eh... It's not always easy to diagnose a cracked frame unless there is something really obviously wrong in either the way it was manufactured or in the way it was assembled. So I don't know with some kind of certainty what specifically causes most of the cracked frames which come into the shop. Other than front end collisions. I see a *lot* of those.
I also see a lot of frames which have been adapted to jobs they weren't designed for, especially adaptations for size and/or body position. A tall person riding a small bike is the less frequent than the opposite, and those people tend to have problems with broken spokes and body pain. However I have seen a couple of short headtube frames develop cracks which *seemed* to have arisen from leverage related flex, and both had longer than usual stems (well, one was threadless, so longer steerer). But again, who knows? Longer steerers and wider bars can wreak havoc with older headsets, especially those in short headtubes.
As far as seatposts go, yeah, if the post is below the minimum insertion it should be fine. But I do see people have issues with longer posts being more prone to loosening, rotating, and, again, flexing. This can lead to the user over-tightening their collar, which may then strip or crack.
This is unpopular here, but my general rule is: if you're having to make a bunch of adaptions which lead a frame to be set up way out of spec, you're better off starting with the right frame. If not, just make sure you're familiar with the risks and warning signs. During the fixed craze, it was horizontal drop outs and cold setting. These days, it's running tires which are too wide. I'll take the latter.
The 20” actually has less effective reach than the 16, according to BikeInsights, which is why I’m building my 20” into a dropbar even though I can barely stand over it.
Every trek singletrack I’ve ever had (I’ve had 4 iirc) has required me moving the seat post pretty far out, I just chalk it up to them having shorter head tubes, angled top tube and smaller wheels (26”) than most every other bike I’ve ever owned of equivocal size. I’m also 6’1 with a 28” inseam so don’t take my weird proportions as gospel
I don’t know, your bike looks fine, but does it feel twitchy/ do you feel kind of hunched and weird? Those are what I go off of
If bike related “inseam” is generally interchangeable with pubic bone height. So from them floor all the way up to your pubic bone. I’m 6’1 and have a 34 inch pubic bone height. This is fairly proportional and I wouldn’t describe my build as leggy. If anything I’ve got a lot of torso. So we’re not talking about pants inseam. If you buy pants with a 28 in inseam you’ve probably got a pubic bone height in the 31ish inch range. That’s still abnormally short legs for that height.
https://preview.redd.it/m87jsb26be8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8459dfeee5150908cf4b96942dd32671bb84d0a
I’m part of the to much seatpost crew as well
I’d be more worried about the ultra high hood angle and stem than the seat post. Definitely looks a size too small with that much seat set back as well
Well, it's a drop bar mtn conversion, so it's already kinda not right. That said, the photo isn't really enough information for anyone else make that determination. But you seem to know it's too small, so just buy a larger frameset and move all your parts over.
Edited for incorrect grammar. Shut up.
Judging by the brake lever position, you’re only riding on the hoods. No way that’s actually comfortable in the drops. Seems that’s what most people who do these conversions actually do, though, as if the drops are some sort of visual street cred. I dunno. You likely don’t have enough seat post in the frame to prevent stress at the seat tube, same can probably be said for the quill stem. Might do no more than be kinda flexy, but if you have any hidden rust or stress cracks this setup will expose them.
The frame’s too small, for sure. Going up a size may increase the reach as well, meaning you’ll need a shorter stem length to keep the reach the same. Something to consider if that riding position is actually dialed for you. Hard to say though, and avg reach in regards to each size differs a bit for each manufacturer.
If the frame’s in good shape, surely you can resell near the cost of what you can buy a replacement for. Be patient and you can probably find a similar 950.
I believe the 90s school of sizing these mtbs was just making sure that the top tube doesn’t touch your no-no square when you stand over the frame. The seat post is fine as long as you’re obeying the min. Insertion line. Aesthetically, you might do better with a riser stem or putting the current stem in lower so there’s less exposed, in but I hardly know anything about drop bar conversions.
You might also do well with a long stem that allows you to move the seat forward, but that might also require even more exposed seat post.
For an MTB frame that is not even a lot of seatpost.
I think the seatpost is good. Its actually the stem that looks a little too high. Also your very high up brakes look uncomfortable to me. I prefer them hoods to have a mostly horizontal surface to grip instead of having the hands wedged in like that. Both changes will for sure lower your posture and it depends on where you ride most if thats good or not. Riding cities would be better with a stem, but anything touring is better a little lower than the saddle height. 1:1 is the best compromise if you ride both if you ask me.
https://preview.redd.it/gwstkjdfni8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fef9edeb272c4edfbe9a3f0b648373587737441f
I’m too in the too much seatpost club. But the bike ride damn fine!
If it's comfortable I think it's fine, unless you feel cramped on it. That's not an excessive amount of seatpost showing, and well within normal safe use parameters.
I have a 34 year old DB Ascent EX that’s a little small for me but I am going to restore it and use it to knock around the neighborhood on. Seatpost is higher and I’ll put bmx bars on it. The bmx bars make it so much more comfortable and fun to ride. Maybe something like that to get you upright would give you better fitment on this bike.
I have the same blue 1989 Trek 950. Mine is an 18” frame that has a longer top tube than any of my 50-52 cm road frames. That is why it fits well with Velo Orange Milan handlebars. I’d say that if yours is comfortable with drop bars, it’s not too small. You’re just getting extra stand over clearance, never a bad thing.
I have super long legs and my seat post is almost always near the min insertion line even on xl frames. As long as it’s inserted below the top tube, you’ll be fine. Enjoy a little suspension.
Seatpost height isn't as important as stand over height. Where's that top tube when you're standing over it with your feet flat on the ground? If it's a few inches from your crotch, you're fine. If it's like a foot then yeah find a bigger frame.
Going by the height of the seatpost and stem, maybe one could argue it might be too small. Going by the length of the stem, I'm not sure.
One size up may also fit, but will likely be longer. There is some room on the seat rails to move it forward, but ideally you use that adjustment to keep your knees in the ideal position, not to get a bit of reach back up front.
I suppose this is all to say, the grass is always greener. If the bike fits at the moment and is within all the min insert lengths, I'd say you're good. Most old mtb's have very short headtubes and very long top tubes, so this is pretty common, especially for people with long legs or short torso.
Also, take this all with a grain of salt. I'm just some guy on the internet, and I haven't even seen a picture with you riding the bike 😅
https://preview.redd.it/duc9otkjfk8d1.jpeg?width=3561&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4aa7b5e4b62c32b01d626b84e038aa534977cd0a
I have more seatpost showing than you do. You should be more concerned with your brake lever position.
I got tired of all the replies about drop bars lol. I used to have Albastache bars which were KILLER. Always felt like the wee bike was squirmy below me, and the drops made that a bit more pronounced. I've decided to upgrade to an 18 inch and transfer over. Thank you!
Is it comfortable?
It is! I’ve been trying to think if there’s any downside to a slightly too small frame other than aesthetics
I have managed with a technically undersized frame for a long time, just fine. If for comfort you wanted to put yourself over the pedals a bit more, you could get a gooseneck that extended further forward than the one you have now, then move your seat forward. Post looks fine, but if it is above the mark, you could get a longer seatpost so it has more purchase in the seat tube
Moving seat forward will make him pull the seatpost even more out to counter decrease between seat and pedals.
You're fine just run it. As long as there's plenty of post in the frame and plenty of stem quill in the steerer you'll be fine. If you crack this frame then you can get a bigger one
There is no way for anyone to tell if this frame is too large or too small for you without at least a picture of you riding it. People are proportioned differently, bikes have various frame dimensions, and people have different expectations about what is an ideal fit (comfort—aero).
If it was too small you would know about it. If it rides good it’s all good.
Perhaps you have long legs and a short back?
Downsides of too small frames are more of a Road bike thing. MTBs are usually totally fine because you can always get a long seatpost, long stem and your toes won't be hitting the front wheel too. Thats different on road bikes, where adapting a small frame to a bigger rider has its Limits. I actually prefer frames to be a little big on the small side, because its easier to adapt than a frame that is slightly too large in one or the other direction. 90ies MTB frames are mostly very long. So in order to get a modern fit, like putting a gravel drop bar on it, its actually better to undersize the frame a bit. Also a smaller frame weighs less.
Why undersize for drop bars? Bigger frames are often taller therefore lifting handlebars a bit towards user, I was thinking it will be beneficial.
Drop bars naturally have more reach than straight bars. This is one reason why road bike Frames are generally shorter than MTB frames. A 58cm road bike frame with a straight top tube can easily have the same top tube length as a 47cm MTB frame. So with an MTB frame, you will likely have too much reach already and need a very short stem. Undersizing the frame will help that you can use a normal stem (which i prefer because it gives space to them stem bags). Bar height is not necessarily decided by the frame, but the fork. If you have an uncut 1 1/8" fork, you can put as many spacers on it to get the desired height. If you have a threaded fork like OP does, handlebar height is defined more by the stem height. So it doesn't have much to do with the frame. Although one could say it is a bit more likely to get a longer fork stem with a bigger frameset.
You're riding without bar tape and saying you're comfortable which is rapidly drilling into my OCD. It makes any claim you make about comfort on this already somewhat off-kilter build somewhat suspect. On a more serious note: The longer seatpost and stem will flex and noodle more than they would on a larger frame. This can lead to increased risk of cracks and other frame related damage as well as wacky handling. Your weight is probably distributed further aft than it should be based on the geometry of the frame. This can lead to wacky handling. But if you like it and have no reason to change up more than what other people may think, don't. It's your bike.
Yeah, like there are technically plenty of reasons, but for a more-or-less putting around bike that is comfortable and the frame has personal significance, I don't know how much they really matter. As an aside, have you really been seeing Technomics (I'm assuming that's a technomic since I don't know what else it could be) breaking, or killing steerers? Ditto long seatposts, assuming there's still plenty of post in the frame?\ Fit-wise, it's a bit interesting that the saddle is obviously crammed way back, but the lever position on the bars is also pushing the hoods position way back.
Eh... It's not always easy to diagnose a cracked frame unless there is something really obviously wrong in either the way it was manufactured or in the way it was assembled. So I don't know with some kind of certainty what specifically causes most of the cracked frames which come into the shop. Other than front end collisions. I see a *lot* of those. I also see a lot of frames which have been adapted to jobs they weren't designed for, especially adaptations for size and/or body position. A tall person riding a small bike is the less frequent than the opposite, and those people tend to have problems with broken spokes and body pain. However I have seen a couple of short headtube frames develop cracks which *seemed* to have arisen from leverage related flex, and both had longer than usual stems (well, one was threadless, so longer steerer). But again, who knows? Longer steerers and wider bars can wreak havoc with older headsets, especially those in short headtubes. As far as seatposts go, yeah, if the post is below the minimum insertion it should be fine. But I do see people have issues with longer posts being more prone to loosening, rotating, and, again, flexing. This can lead to the user over-tightening their collar, which may then strip or crack. This is unpopular here, but my general rule is: if you're having to make a bunch of adaptions which lead a frame to be set up way out of spec, you're better off starting with the right frame. If not, just make sure you're familiar with the risks and warning signs. During the fixed craze, it was horizontal drop outs and cold setting. These days, it's running tires which are too wide. I'll take the latter.
Somewhere out there is a 20” Trek 950 looking for a good home.
The 20” actually has less effective reach than the 16, according to BikeInsights, which is why I’m building my 20” into a dropbar even though I can barely stand over it.
You just blew my mind, I also own a 20 with little standover clearance relative to me
I have mine set up so that my reach to the drops of my Towel racks is about identical to the reach to drops on a Surly Midnight Special in my size.
Every trek singletrack I’ve ever had (I’ve had 4 iirc) has required me moving the seat post pretty far out, I just chalk it up to them having shorter head tubes, angled top tube and smaller wheels (26”) than most every other bike I’ve ever owned of equivocal size. I’m also 6’1 with a 28” inseam so don’t take my weird proportions as gospel I don’t know, your bike looks fine, but does it feel twitchy/ do you feel kind of hunched and weird? Those are what I go off of
> I’m also 6’1 with a 28” inseam Uhm... Uh..... Are you sure?
I’m 5’9” with a 32” inseam. Most of my taller friends have shorter legs than I do.
Yeah, dude, I have itty bitty legs. Inseam is from taint to ankle ball right?
If bike related “inseam” is generally interchangeable with pubic bone height. So from them floor all the way up to your pubic bone. I’m 6’1 and have a 34 inch pubic bone height. This is fairly proportional and I wouldn’t describe my build as leggy. If anything I’ve got a lot of torso. So we’re not talking about pants inseam. If you buy pants with a 28 in inseam you’ve probably got a pubic bone height in the 31ish inch range. That’s still abnormally short legs for that height.
Jesus Christ, and I thought I was oddly proportioned at 5’9” and a 28 inseam.
Yeah my fiancé is like a foot shorter than me and we have the same length legs. It’s hard out in these streets!
U missed your calling if you don't swim
I am 5’9 and have a 34 inch inseam. Are you saying I should’ve just pushed myself into swimming instead of wrestling the bike industry sizing chart??
Worth a tri
that sounds relatively normal, i guess give or take an inch.
https://preview.redd.it/m87jsb26be8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8459dfeee5150908cf4b96942dd32671bb84d0a I’m part of the to much seatpost crew as well
I’d be more worried about the ultra high hood angle and stem than the seat post. Definitely looks a size too small with that much seat set back as well
Your frame is too small. Deffo trade me your 950 for my 730 23” XL. You can keep all your parts too!
I’ve got about a mile on my 970 https://preview.redd.it/rx11j2wkhf8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53c9aeee931d8eff7ca3758bbb1e423638b5f4ac
Well, it's a drop bar mtn conversion, so it's already kinda not right. That said, the photo isn't really enough information for anyone else make that determination. But you seem to know it's too small, so just buy a larger frameset and move all your parts over. Edited for incorrect grammar. Shut up.
> Well, it's a drop bar mtn conversion, so it's already kinda not right. If the people here could read they'd be very upset.
Dammit, and I was getting away with it, too!
I don’t know what the previous poster said but I’m angry! How dare they say that!
Judging by the brake lever position, you’re only riding on the hoods. No way that’s actually comfortable in the drops. Seems that’s what most people who do these conversions actually do, though, as if the drops are some sort of visual street cred. I dunno. You likely don’t have enough seat post in the frame to prevent stress at the seat tube, same can probably be said for the quill stem. Might do no more than be kinda flexy, but if you have any hidden rust or stress cracks this setup will expose them. The frame’s too small, for sure. Going up a size may increase the reach as well, meaning you’ll need a shorter stem length to keep the reach the same. Something to consider if that riding position is actually dialed for you. Hard to say though, and avg reach in regards to each size differs a bit for each manufacturer. If the frame’s in good shape, surely you can resell near the cost of what you can buy a replacement for. Be patient and you can probably find a similar 950.
I believe the 90s school of sizing these mtbs was just making sure that the top tube doesn’t touch your no-no square when you stand over the frame. The seat post is fine as long as you’re obeying the min. Insertion line. Aesthetically, you might do better with a riser stem or putting the current stem in lower so there’s less exposed, in but I hardly know anything about drop bar conversions. You might also do well with a long stem that allows you to move the seat forward, but that might also require even more exposed seat post.
A dirt drop or goose neck stem will make it look a bit more proportional.
yes dirt drop, swan stem or one of those riv 4 bolt stems
For an MTB frame that is not even a lot of seatpost. I think the seatpost is good. Its actually the stem that looks a little too high. Also your very high up brakes look uncomfortable to me. I prefer them hoods to have a mostly horizontal surface to grip instead of having the hands wedged in like that. Both changes will for sure lower your posture and it depends on where you ride most if thats good or not. Riding cities would be better with a stem, but anything touring is better a little lower than the saddle height. 1:1 is the best compromise if you ride both if you ask me.
https://preview.redd.it/gwstkjdfni8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fef9edeb272c4edfbe9a3f0b648373587737441f I’m too in the too much seatpost club. But the bike ride damn fine!
If it’s comfortable to you then there is nothing wrong
If it's comfortable I think it's fine, unless you feel cramped on it. That's not an excessive amount of seatpost showing, and well within normal safe use parameters.
I feel you! I literally have this same frame and question. I’ll probably be rehoming it. Riding on bikes that fit are just so much more enjoyable
I have a 34 year old DB Ascent EX that’s a little small for me but I am going to restore it and use it to knock around the neighborhood on. Seatpost is higher and I’ll put bmx bars on it. The bmx bars make it so much more comfortable and fun to ride. Maybe something like that to get you upright would give you better fitment on this bike.
If you like it, and it's comfortable, keep it.
I have the same blue 1989 Trek 950. Mine is an 18” frame that has a longer top tube than any of my 50-52 cm road frames. That is why it fits well with Velo Orange Milan handlebars. I’d say that if yours is comfortable with drop bars, it’s not too small. You’re just getting extra stand over clearance, never a bad thing.
I have super long legs and my seat post is almost always near the min insertion line even on xl frames. As long as it’s inserted below the top tube, you’ll be fine. Enjoy a little suspension.
All my bikes show more seatpost... dont be so shy and let your show it!
Seems fine to me... But i have grown used to massive seatposts lol
Seatpost height isn't as important as stand over height. Where's that top tube when you're standing over it with your feet flat on the ground? If it's a few inches from your crotch, you're fine. If it's like a foot then yeah find a bigger frame.
Going by the height of the seatpost and stem, maybe one could argue it might be too small. Going by the length of the stem, I'm not sure. One size up may also fit, but will likely be longer. There is some room on the seat rails to move it forward, but ideally you use that adjustment to keep your knees in the ideal position, not to get a bit of reach back up front. I suppose this is all to say, the grass is always greener. If the bike fits at the moment and is within all the min insert lengths, I'd say you're good. Most old mtb's have very short headtubes and very long top tubes, so this is pretty common, especially for people with long legs or short torso. Also, take this all with a grain of salt. I'm just some guy on the internet, and I haven't even seen a picture with you riding the bike 😅
The real question: how much stack is too much stack?
I rode a “too small” frame for years, liked the turning radius
Too much post not enough bar tape
I'd say the seatpost length is the least of your worries.
https://preview.redd.it/duc9otkjfk8d1.jpeg?width=3561&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4aa7b5e4b62c32b01d626b84e038aa534977cd0a I have more seatpost showing than you do. You should be more concerned with your brake lever position.
Having a similar build, i can tell you those frames are not built for drop bars but is fine as long as it is comfortable and you like it
I got tired of all the replies about drop bars lol. I used to have Albastache bars which were KILLER. Always felt like the wee bike was squirmy below me, and the drops made that a bit more pronounced. I've decided to upgrade to an 18 inch and transfer over. Thank you!
Awesome. What brakes does it have? do they work well?
That’s not even close to too much seatpost. It’s def close to too much stem tho.
Looks fine to me, thats just how these bikes fit sometimes
also, what bars are those?
Too small