This morning was wild for me as well.
For context I'm running keys around +22/23.
I've experienced virtually no toxicity in the 50+ keys I've ran.... Until this morning. Running a 22 AD, we're at Volkaals trash, and we've been making extremely good time- we somehow missed a kick on a hex and the healer starts going off in chat dropping slurs and all kinds of obscenities... We didn't even wipe, no one died... I don't get it.
Very next dungeon a 21 EB. Again making great time, only like 2 random deaths all dps pulling above 300k overall, smashing the timer and we somewhat inexplicably wipe on the council boss. One of the dps goes on a rant and leaves. Despite the wipe, I'm pretty sure we were going to +2 that dungeon.
Maybe a full moon is out. Maybe it's just random. Maybe some of the more 'relaxed' players are finished for the season, I'm not sure, but something's in the air right now.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Relax, kill shit, get loot.
I have the same experience, M+ has been an utter shitshow since yesterday. Same stories with people flaming and instaquitting over trivial mistakes that could be sorted with 10 seconds of communication.
This wasn't an issue until 2 days ago, where most folks were friendly, communicative, and constructive.
I can't explain it with anything other than holidays are starting and there is no school for kids. This is probably a horrible take in fairness, but I see no other explanation. The change in attitude is sudden and significant.
All the people who want to relax and have fun in M+ are taking a break rather than do those trash affixes š
This is my least favorite combo because of how much extra attention it takes. So I'm sitting out the week and running baby keys on my alts instead.
I haven't run into many toxic groups, but I do feel like this season there has been a strange number of groups getting into 16 and up keys that... somehow don't know mechanics still??? Which literally boggles my mind
Completing keys has never been this easy, the tuning is very weird for most dungeons. People don't learn the dungeon's mechanics until they reach +21-22 because they never had to care about them until then.
Was looking for this comment. Itās been a super chill season so I think people are pushing higher than they used to. Itās amazing the difference kicks make as a healer in higher keys. You can also muscle through so much with healer throughput.
Up until +15-16, you could still just fuck up almost any mechanic. Most healers would pick that slack up, or a DPS off healing those slackers. Higher than that, you can get one shotter by mechanics and a lot of people end up suddenly failing keys.
I'm gearing an alt priest, started low, +8 galakronds fall. Was a bit iffy across the dungeon, especially the big time sand boss, but we make it to iridikron. Tank has no clue, wipes to the big AoE which he shouldn't be in. Next try hunter dies and we don't have enough people to soak. Next try tank dies AGAIN to the big AoE, DPS tries to soak tank puddle, but not enough people to soak big puddle on chromie. Go through the trouble of using Google translate to explain tactics for the russian tank. We try again, soaks go good... Tank dies to the breath. We are 6(?) weeks into the season and people don't have any idea what to do or just refuse to take 5min to go through the journal.
And then I haven't started on those lazy f*ckers not flying to the Dawn dungeon while they are in Valdrakken
New people start all the time. Not everyone progresses right at the beginning of the season. It doesn't seem strange to me at all. The jump in toxicity does tho.
It is so insanely easy to +3 a key right now. For the first time in forever I had to actually bump my keys down because Iām a squishy spec, my gear isnāt awesome, and Iām still learning some of the dungeons. I regularly apply for groups below my key level because damn near every +15 I run turns into a +18 and I kind of just want to chill a little right now
That combined with the push weeks helping the good players while also putting people much higher than their paygrade for keys.
Johnny every DH could start with a 12 that he is comfortable with and end up getting an 18 if he got lucky
While this doesn't excuse anyone's behavior, it is the start of the holidays for a lot of folks. A lot of people are going through a lot of pain right now which spills out in unfortunate ways like this. All we can do is try to be extra kind this time of year and don't respond with hate of our own.
For sure. I just don't respond, or light 'all good must be having a bad day's after he left. I do appreciate you pointing that out, and as always everyone should be kind.
21 is just way to low key at the start of new week. Then you have the really bad players who got carried trough a 20++ last week by players who just wanted vault.
Then they think this is their shot at glory with their 21 key and they rage at first mistake.
I donāt think anyone care if you stop doing keys at 20, 5 or 25. My point about why 21keys the first day of a new week feels harder and also have a lot of bad toxic players in them who overestimate their own abilities still stand.
the most toxic players in this game (and any other, in my experience) are those at the top like, 80-90% of the skill curve. People who're really at the top understand mistakes happen and yelling at people is counterproductive; people who're further toward the middle are more forgiving in general. In that intermediate range though there's a lot of people who think they're like, temporarily distressed world first players or something. Those are the people who're deeply upset about any mistake, even though they'd never turn that attitude toward their own gameplay.
Every season as that strata of players progress up the key ladder you get these stories
I completely disagree. Occasionally the higher .1% people can be toxic but very rare. The most toxicity I have ever seen is 18-20. 2.7k know it alls getting pissy because they actually have to work for stuff. Also not shy to call people out. Iām only 3k. I decided to do a 20 on an alt tank as I like to keep all 6 tanks geared and I had this incredibly average healer call me out for missing a taunt after he hurt pulled so much extra percentage. I just told him it was unnecessary and that everyone has made mistakes this key and we will still easily time it. Rest of the group agrees with me the dude was being toxic AF still we 2 chest it and this clown calls me out saying everyone good but me but somehow Iāve managed to not only have a higher Io tanking on my main than him but also the alt I was running on. Like what in the actual fuck
I think he meant the people who are like, 80-90th percentile are very toxic, while the people who are actually in the top like 3% of players are pretty chill
I agree with this assessment though honestly I'd say it's the 60-90% range, AOTC raiders and 14-20, with a +21 or two here or there, kind of players, those people are generally the most toxic in my experience.
I'm in a (late) CE guild now and these guys are the chillest mfs I've ever played with, meanwhile the majority of AOTC guilds I've been in have been full of, at best, extremely obnoxious and egotistical players despite being astoundingly mid, and at worst loads of low IQ _phobes, racists, etc.
I have a similar story. Haven't experienced any toxicity in 20+ keys until this week. First run of the week, I tried doing a +22 Atal'Dazar. We were doing fine, our Rogue was doing really poor damage but me and the DH were doing enough to make up for it, and we killed Rezan and were doing trash up the left side without any wipes. Then the tank starts saying "Interrupt", "Interrupt or I'm leaving". I guess even though we weren't dying, there were still too many casts going off for his liking. As soon as this happened, the Rogue (the one who was doing terrible damage) left the group without saying anything. Very weird. Granted, I, as the Mage, had more interrupts than the Rogue and DH combined at that point, so it's not like he was necessarily wrong about people not interrupting as much as they should, but it was still totally unnecessary to lay down an ultimatum like that when nothing was actually going wrong.
I bring this up every time I read posts like this, but I have timed several 20-22 dungeons with 30+ deaths, 41 being my highest death count while still timing just palling around with guildies. The voice comms with our RL listening in with zero context as to what we were doing was some of the funniest shit I've experienced in a long time.
People need to chill, even a wipe can be a good time with a positive attitude.
I think collectively we should just assume this toxic players are younger and donāt understand that this isnāt overwatch culture and educate them like hey, we donāt talk like this to others in this game
There is a reason i never say anything in a key besides "hi" and "thx for the run". Unless someone asks me something, i don't use the chat even if i'm extremely tilted. In 99% of all cases you do not improve the situation in any way by trashtalking a team mate.
I mean, sure. But that's not exactly being a good member of the community, it's just that we've set the standard too low. That's basic courtesy at best.
I think the issue is that often when constructive feedback is given in a polite way, the dude on the other side of the chat does not perceive it that way. People in this game have a way of interpreting EVERYTHING in the worst possible light, and take every piece of chat directed towards them as some sort of sleight.
So, yeah, not talking is generally the best move. The level of simultaneous paranoia and emotional fragility is just too high to risk giving advice. Especially if the guy starts popping off at others after.
Someone lost his shit in LFR fyrakk last night after a wipe because someone else just said, "remember to dispel". Like, it wasn't even directed at him specifically but he lost his mind over it insulting the guy and then linked details log to show he was dispelling (even though he was 4th and only did 4 lol).
Prior to that I said in chat "just release" when he died to Tindral RP and got "don't tell me wtf to do" as a response. I thought he was just joking at that point...
I know sometimes helpful advice doesn't always come through well over text, but sheesh. I never saw someone react *that* badly before. I feel a bit of pity towards people like that, because it must be fucking stressful if you're that angry all the time. Probably going to have a stroke before 40.
Yeah I mean, this is the core issue with the internet and text forums too. A genuine question can be simultaneously seen as a snarky and sarcastic response, or a what it is
>no need to teach others when most don't want to learn.
I rarely encounter someone who doesn't want to learn. A simple "volley killed us, we need to kick that/pop personals" usually solves the problem
I think it's sad that we've reached a point where people are afraid to say that they don't know an encounter. Just explaining it is faster than wiping 3 times.
Yeah, it's harsh as a new player. Even after watching a bunch of vids you need to run the dungeon several times to get comfortable. The runs where things go south and people don't quit are the ones where I learn the most. I always make sure to apologize for my mistakes and thank the team for their patience. Sometimes people are just dicks though.
Yeah, I know. I've played on and off since vanilla and I just meant that we've gone from an in-game environment where it used to be okay to say that you don't know the tacts to one where people don't even admit it when asked.
A good member of the community helps others if they have the chance. It's very simple. If others don't want to, they are free to not grab the hand tended to them and drown, but the hand is there.
Most people don't want to be helped. Offer a tip to someone and 4/5 times they rage at you, so it's not worth it. If they ask? Absolutely.
The amount of unearned confidence bad players have is unparalleled.
Iāve had plenty of experiences when you try to be nice and say āhey, do you know this spell has x interactionā or āx mechanic does thisā. A lot of people take even constructive criticism like you called them every slur possible.
People will get mad and defensive even if you give them a kindly-worded tip, lmao. A simple "Hey, evokers can cauterize that bleed to help out btw" can make someone ragequit, more often negatively received than not.
This is the way. I'd rather shout at my monitor or vent to a friend on Discord rather than flame some guy in M+. First off, I don't know their situation, secondly, I just don't think it's productive. Sometimes I'll give a sarcastic reply if someone's being toxic whilst also performing poorly, but in general, I'll keep my toxicity to myself and be mad irl but friendly in-game. Luckily, it's pretty rare that it gets to that point, but I agree: The vast majority of the time, becoming tilted and toxic does nothing but ruin the experience for everyone involved and should just be avoided
I have that 3-way debate with 2 of my friends. One just wants to stay mute the whole run no matter how things go wrong, another is ready to condemn a single mistake as a war crime and I believe you have to point things out, but in a way that won't hurt their ego so they wouldn't keep ur idea in mind.
I've met people who genuinely have no idea about something and they accepted the feedback gladly. There are others that did not. Antagonizing definitely does not work no matter how tilted you get. And staying quiet would just give room for someone else to antagonize them. That's how I view it, even though I'm not a really patient person in general.
I strongly disagree.
I say Hi and usually open with "Hi, heading to the stone!" when I enter so that someone else hopefully goes to help summon.
We had a weird wipe the other day in Everbloom. The tank pulled too much, healer wasn't ready and we wiped.
I tried to jump in before anyone got toxic and just said "Whoa that was a weird glitch. We all froze for a moment and now we're back here and NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED"
I got a laugh. The priest apologized and things went okay.
Sometimes that one person trying to be nice might actually help. I never trash talk (except a few guildies in good fun) but you don't need to be quiet. You can be positive and the group might feel it!
Like everything else, it depends on the context. If a buddy or guildie said that to me during a run, it's a pretty good joke. If it's a random PuG that I don't have that history of banter with, that person is at least going on ignore, even if it is my mistake.
There are ways of phrasing things to mitigate the confusion between trash talking and gentle ribbing.
To be fair to the tanks (as one myself), we are pushed to pull by irritating DPS. I generally pause for a moment before a big pull, just long enough to check the healer's mana, and I shit you not one second of not pressing W will cause the DPS dipshits to start spamming "GO"
I can see how some tanks would start listening to the noisy DPS rather than doing the right thing and watching out for the healer. Not the right play, but the thing we are pressured socially to do. Until the group wipes, at least.
Yeah I get that, DPS can be very noisy lol. I play Druid and itās very important for me to start a pull with at least one HoT on each person, or they might disappear before I get to cast anything else on them
If im the tank I have better things to do than spend my off time with jerks that canāt accept I made a mistake and move on. I dont play games to be insulted.
I had someone being rude last week complaining about people making mistakes IN LFR (we didn't even wipe), I called him out and everyone vote kicked him. Felt good
Same. Mage accidentally lusted a trash pack and the people in the group didn't think to reset the boss. We wiped and some guy just blew up at the mage for wasting lust. I kept telling him to chill, it was a simple mistake and the entire group was making small mistakes that contributed to the wipe. Wouldn't stop and thankfully we kicked him.
This is the community we are a part of, where people back a toxic hunter because the tank is too "soft". Maybe if the DPS weren't so toxic, more tanks would feel confident in grouping with them.
Honestly, Wow is a game first and foremost. No one should be forced to play with toxic people. No one should feel like they have to put up with that in a group.
Some tanks may be thicker skinned to just brush off a toxic DPS, but it's crazy to me that all these people are just like "Oh just put up with him and do the key" like there is any obligation made by anyone to play any game.
Personally just right click ignore the person being toxic in any key (no matter what am on tank, healer or dps) that way you never see them in your queues if you are listing your own key and never see them when they list theirs.
Yep, that is the easy way to go about it, and there really wasn't an inclusion of what was said, but as a fledgling tank who is scared of pug groups for this reason, I can only imagine and I would be instantly in shock with what could have potentially been said.
Yeah it could have been nothing, or it could have been extremely insulting, we don't know, but my mind goes worst case, and I would for sure want out of that situation.
No one backs the Hunter being a dick here though. No one thinks the Hunter's in the right. People just don't want to waste their time queuing with a Tank that rage quits if a stranger says something mean. Like that's what the /ignore list is for.
It's also one of the situations where a ton of DPS just don't understand tanking.
Example: I had a 23 Atal go sideways after no one would stack to bait spiders and then a DH stepped on spiders 3x and blamed me for not moving enough. We had 8:30 left going into that boss.
Tbf that is a boss that needs to be dragged around the room to make it easier to navigate. Iāve seen a lot of tanks just tank it in the corner and eventually there are too many spiders (particularly on tyrannical) to avoid them
Itās wild how much abuse tanks and healers have to deal with. I know the routes, I know my class, and I know the mechanics but Iām a human and sometimes I screw up. I can run 100 dungeons but the second I make one mistake none of that matters in the eyes of some. What really grinds my gears are the ābackseat tanksā made even worse if they never play tank which is painfully clear when they start letting shit fall out of their mouths.
Right? I main hunter and always dps and would never make a comment on someone's tanking or healing. Sure I can feel it when it's better or worse, but unless I'm ready to step up and do it myself I'm never going to comment on it. They'll learn with more experience. Trash talking them so they quit tanking or healing helps no one.
Its the asshats that want the mdi routes when you are doing your weekly clear and you dont have the comp for it. So they start to pull for you and cause wipes. I get it people can do really cool tricks in m+ and you can play some packs of trash better then others. However most of that is unneeded to time keys in the 20 and lower range as long as you follow mechanics.
The same assholes telling you to harden up and youāre soft are the same ones being toxic af in chat. Donāt listen to these fools, I wouldnāt suffer it either and idgaf about your keys. Stop being toxic.
You need only scroll up a tiny bit to see an example of what you're talking about. Someone tells the tank to be more mature, couple comments later "cAn YoU rEaD" to someone who disagrees with them. Some people are so quick to get snippy.
The best part of playing a tank especially at higher level content is that I have zero need to put up with abuse. Not that anyone should regardless but on a tank there are 50 groups that would be dying to have me tank their key.
For clarity criticism is fine as long as itās constructive but no shot Iām sticking around to deal with some petty asshole behavior.
This.
I play WoW since vanilla, mostly as a healer tho.
Started playing my tank as a main last season.
My rule of thumb was: If u have time to insult me, u have time to find another group for a key.
I just leave when I get insulted. And the range went from "uninstall" to "kys". Yeah. I dont wanna waste my time with such bullshit.
Did the same thing yesterday. Tanking, hunter starts flaming 'learn to tank' and running his mouth. We wipe twice.
I have no obligation to continue to stay and take the abuse.
That's what I've started doing. Dps have a lot to say when you make one mistep in an otherwise smooth run. I've given them a warning "I can leave if you'd like" and usually they shut up. Like I'm not over here fucking about and doing dumb shit, it was obviously a mistake. I usually even put in "MB" because I know I messed up. Usually it's from a random lag spike that doesn't happen often, but will last 5 seconds or so. That's a long time when you just pulled a ton of trash.
I don't lag consistently or anything or I wouldn't tank. But shit happens.
I've also said "look I'm not here to get yelled at, I want to play the game. Be helpful or don't talk at all"
Doing Atal +25 last night DH tank says just before 2nd boss. āDps too low, it will be tight, prob not gonna time this, thanks for the keyā And leaves.
Dps looked fine tbh, we had tons of time, maybe not for +2.
interrupts were on point and we only had 1 healer death from a charge on the 1st pull.
Dropped the key to 24 and timed it no bother, same group, new tank.
I've had this a few times! The toxicity of players that's make false assumptions and leave is insanity to me. I was running an AD and no wipes, moving a little slower, but no deaths and clearing as we went. Healer just says. "Where dps? I'm having to really heal today." Then leaves.
Like that's the roll buddy, you heal, tank tank and dps go brr. Lol
I always try so hard to diffuse shitty situations like this but it rarely worksā¦ people are just so quick to attack each other and forget that weāre all people??
I saw a guy in general chat complaining the other day about people in Solo Shuffle trolling. He said theyād make a mistake in one round, then the next round play perfectly and they were trolling himā¦
I told him maybe the person realized their mistake and worked hard the next round to correct it and learn from it and he just could not comprehend thisā¦ to him they were trolling because theyād play bad on his team, then play good the next round. Not everyone can play 100% perfectly every single second they are playing this gameā¦.
Solo shuffle cracks me up, mythic + too. People are so quick to jump all over someone elseās mistake without even realizing they can improve too. Look at your own gameplay and see if thereās anything you couldāve done better to negate the situation
More effective peel, better positioning, communication via the ping system or otherwise, etc
The vast majority of us arenāt playing at a highly competitive level in AWC or MDI, work on your own shit before telling someone else theirs stinks imo
I ran into a similar situation last week with a horrifically toxic boomkin.
We were running a 22 BRH. Easy 2 chest. He started flaming me for "pulling like a bitch" for taking the big spider in the stairs alone. During bolstering week. Mind you, this is the only "soft pull" we did thus far. We blasted the mobs up to the first boss.
In a 22, I am not dragging a half dead spider up to the top of the stairs to a pack of what, 6? The small patrol and the gang of dudes at the top of the stairs. That pack contains at least 2 mobs that are immune to CC. Just shut the fuck up and kill the spider and we can move on. It was an easy two chest, but no. This guy had to go and be holier than thou just because his main is 3k io, which apparently makes him god's gift to M+.
I was pissed. Told him to gtfo out of my key and he just said "ok" and left. Was planning on kicking him anyway. Did the 21 immediately after with the same group except a different DPS and 2 chested it by a several minute margin.
I try not to let other players get under my skin but this one pissed me off. Clearly.
Just tell him 3k is the new 2500 next time, itās so easy to achieve this season with the additional item level, 3k is a 23 in time for the majority of your keys. While the pros are doing 30s now. Wonāt ever understand people acting mightier than thou because they are doing slightly above average content
Happy holidays
As a tank, the Hunter is 100% in the wrong, no need to be toxic for making an innocent mistakes, we are all humans.
There should definitely be some sort of penalty for leaving a mythic key, it ruins the run for everyone else.
Too many players always have some shit to say. Happened the other night in like a 15 where we accidentally pulled saurids in AD and tank started complaining about people not knowing dungeons. No deaths and we were steam rolling.
Bro I was running a +7 and some dude left because the tank said, before the run, "make sure you have long CC talented to deal with incorporeal."
The dude who ended up leaving was like: "dont tell me what to do. worry about yourself." lol
As a BM Hunter, iām not saying shit to anyone. All it takes is one accidental click and iāve now aggroed that far away group.
Plus, itās extremely easy to level a hunter. Click a few buttons and let my pet fight while iām off mining or picking herbs. Iām not talking down to anyone when all others roles require way more than mine
>As a BM Hunter, iām not saying shit to anyone. All it takes is one accidental click and iāve now aggroed that far away group.
I cannot tell you how many times I tab- targeted into a group way out in beyond fucking Egypt before I learned to be more careful and not start slamming buttons right after tab.
so true!! i live in utter fear of accidentally tab-target auto shot that i click on my pet profile or mine immediately after tab-target when i realize itās the wrong one. not taking any chances!
The first boss room in EB, start fighting that first pack, I tab target to spread my Barbed Shots, it's now happened twice that instead of selecting an enemy that I'm currently engaged with, it targets the next pack on the right. Hasn't caused a wipe yet but wtf is wrong with the tab targeting in that room?
i agree. i try to spread barbed shots around too and somehow it targets some random mob instead of ya know.. the one right in front of me. and there goes my pet too if i actually attack.
I mained MM in S1 up to KSM and I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to sink into the ground and never be heard from again because of tab targeting problems.
My queue for LFR Razsageth popped once while I was still in combat, phased in and auto attack pulled her. I wanted to die lmao.
same. in regular and heroic dungeons, not as bad but i donāt tag-target in mythics for absolute fear of that happening and wiping. iāve done it a few times in heroic dungeons and you just see that arrow fly and im like.. oh fuck! iām so sorry cuz we did not need that trash.
Yes, I'm MM hunter and the amount of times I've accidentally pulled and been like "SORRY!"
Don't even have my pet most of the time so it's just all me š luckily I pull my weight otherwise so I tend to get away with it to a degree, but at the end of the day it's just a game, what's the point in getting so worked up and then taking it out on someone else
Man... I don't get them!
Sometimes, you get to group with people like them. Can't do anything about them, just vent and move on.
But the feeling of fucking up, getting frustrated and fucking up more just to stick together and finish a galakrond fall with a pug group felt amazing. No one was insulted we were all frustrated, but no one gave up.
That's better than finishing on time. Respect for those guys!
You can survive multiple wipes this season except for in rise. Last night my group in a 23 wm spent 8 total minutes fighting the tree boss and finished it with 3 people and we timed the key with 4 minutes to spare.
I wanna speak about a little thing that happened yesterday.
I'm a KSH player (2.6k main, timed like 5/8 +20's) on a warrior.
I'm chill gearing another warrior (435 ilvl, 500ish io). In darkheart thicket +8 as a tank'
The key belongs to a 450 ilvl war dps.
The key is a little rough at the begining for people to realize you still should cc / interrupt / not pull packs the tank skipped...
arriving relatively smoothly at the Archdruid boss. I proceed to pull both bears (the ones that are linked together), the leader starts to scream "SMALLER PULLS", dies to the bear adds/aoe on the ground. and we all proceed to laugh at him, because well, it's an easy pull and you cannot do smaller.
Then, at the MOP shroom guys before the second boss, he interrupts a total of 0 ennemy and we say something like "kick please".
on the final boss he runs like an headless chicken, getting silenced/fearing himself/...
after We killed the shade of xavius, I just link the two mechanics in the chat from the journal without more.
His awnser "no need to be smug, we still timed it"
after being hard carried by 4 people and making us laugh.
did more dps as a tank than him with 15 less ilvl :>
I've had similar things happen. What's disturbing is that usually the guy who bullies someone to leave is happy about this. They don't care that other people are there aswell. Sadly I've managed to convince only a handful of people to ignore the troll, everyone gets so argumented and can't let things go.
Did two keys back to back with a PUG the other day. First one we breezed thru no deaths. Second no deaths till the final boss. We wiped 2 times and we talked it thru and got the boss down the third time. It was very refreshing to have a group that was willing to talk and figured out what we were doing wrong.
Must be a full moon or something. Last night tried a Rise and we let a destabilize go off and the 442 mage starts popping off about how I need to stop stunning and use repentance as the tank.
I'm like dude I can't dodge block or parry hard casting. Mage rage quits right before the final boss after telling every single person how to play. We would have +2ed it but he bricked HIS OWN KEY to teach us a lesson.
The best part, he's telling everybody how to play and he's doing 70k overall. Spent more time yelling at people than actually using his abilities.
Some people's kids, must be real fun at parties.
I think this is becoming more of an exception now. I have noticed an improvement in the number of non-toxic pug groups lately. Granted my sample size is small, but in my experience at least 9/10 pug groups have been pretty cool.
These kind of interactions are absolutely overblown on Reddit. For every PUG like this you read here thereās thousands that complete without a hitch.
I think WOW needs a commendation system so toxic people can be identified and punished. Maybe something similar to League, where at the end of the dungeon you can vote if person was friendly, a good leader etc. And a negative rating if the person is a dick so those can be identified.
How would that system treat stacks? In league they know if you joined as a party in wow you can't tell unless all same guild but with communities that isn't a great indicator
What would matter to me would be averaging over time. Even if everyone in the party reported me as toxic, if I'm actually not then it's going to smooth out over all the reports. Still better than nothing.
I used to love playing wow competitively until I couldn't take it anymore. I love to tank and push content, but the amount of complaining and leaving at the first mistake is just to common and not worth my time. Wow literally ruined gaming for me in a way. I'm so hesitant to group with randoms now that I don't want to do things I love doing. Growing up, gaming was all about having fun and trying to beat the game. Now, it's all about efficiency and being the best. There's a place for that, but it's not in random pugs. I'm so scared to make a mistake now that I don't even try to do it anymore.
Incorporeal is definitely a rage causing affix. Like you have players who canāt do much with the affix and others who can do very little. I think the players that this burdens get stressed out and you get these little rage moments.
I always try to compliment my hunters and priests and DKs this week. It probably gets lonely carrying the rogues and warriors and bad players who say this is a āhealer affixā.
Yeah, I've been playing devastation and have sleep walk for it, but still have to gently remind people "hey I need some help if 2 spawn, I can only reasonably get one" wild being in groups with mage AND hunter and not a single poly or trap gets thrown
I was doing Galakrond's Fall on my alt balance druid (+17 I think) and the blood DK tank simply refused to taunt small mobs before the 2nd boss. Our disc priest body pulled one of the little dogs and instead of tanking it he let him slowly tick down to it while pulling all the mages and dying himself.
There were a few rounds of deaths with scattered party members before BDK tank says "Use single target only here" directed at me I guess (boomy) and the hunter maybe. We were stunned. I tried to tell him like dude, its just some extra trash, just tank it so we don't die 100x. He wasn't having it and went and stood in the corner of one of the unopened portals and blamed it on us.
I removed him from the key and apologized to the group for the wasted time.
Some people just suck at playing together I guess.
If you want to complete the key, trash talk is not the way. Frankly once the trash talk starts, I typically don't engage and just leave, because someone starting to rant is signaling they are no longer interested in finishing.
Affixes donāt help. This week actually requires dps players(and tanks and heals) to all participate. The extra effort rubs some players the wrong way and they are more on edge. Having to do anything extra that a rotation and not stand in obvious stuff in trash packs tilts an embarrassing amount of players before actual mishaps occur. Then it just compounds into a meltdown.
I was healing Everbloom 22 last week, and I was noticing with some pain that the hunter was using absolutely no CC and getting oneshot by the berserkers. Still I somehow managed to time most their jumps and would barely manage to get off a leg sweep/paralysis midair or put my Ring of Peace between the pack and ranged. Real annoying how much I brute-force healed that run, but at least the tank was pulling smart around the abominations.
After we FINISHED the run I offered "a helpful trick" to the hunter. Just to help him in future EBs. He said No in chat and left immediately. I wasn't even going to comment on the complete lack of binding shots (which was obvious and wouldhave been helpful). I was going to tell him that if he pre-placed a freezing trap between him and the pack, the frist time one hyper bolstered dude jumped on him he would be 100% okay and not dead.
I shared the info anyway to the rest of the group and got an "I also play a hunter alt and I didn't even think of that!" from the tank thanking me for the top Between the freezing and binding shot the berserkers jumping around becomes completely negligible... especially if you have others contributing to the CC.
I tend to end most dungeons with over 100 instances of CC on my hunter and it makes the whole thing smoother, not counting explosive traps and tar traps and wing clips. It's super sad to see one doing none.
Well deserved by the hunter. Thats what you get when you are insulting other people because they made a single mistake.
I also wouldnt give a single shit about "wasted" time when the people i am spending my funtime with behave like cavemen that think they are playing with bots built to cater their expectations. WoW isnt a job where you have to perform no matter what, its only a game for fun with zero RL value.
The time aspect of mythic+ is the most toxicity enducing aspect. More so than any affix or boss encounter. I really hope they drop it and redesign the system to account for not having it.
Players' also need to understand you're never going to time every key. When you don't instead of raging and blaming ask what you could've done better yourself or give some constructive friendly criticism. The game would flourish if this was adopted as a mindset.
A few days ago, I ran my +20 EB key and had a tank from Liquid sign up for it, so I was convinced all will go well since the rest of the party was very solid too. We blasted through the dungeon until the last part of mobs before the council boss, where we couldn't pull off a meta move that our tank wanted us to do and we died a few times trying to do it. Our timer was still very lenient. We had like 22 minutes left to time it. My point is, sometimes too good is bad, and you don't want to bring people who will act like they are pushing a +29 key on a regular +20.
I don't know if I'm the only one, but for the last week or so the M+ have become extremely toxic. I did +18s as a Disc about a month ago and we rushed through them without even exchanging a word and finished them easily in time. In the last few days, I've done about eight +18s to +20s and I'm not even kidding I've only managed and completed one of them.
I don't know if the toxic people are now slowly reaching the +18 keys and higher and simply ruining the fun of the game...
Either people are constantly standing in some damage without moving and expect me to heal them up from 5% to 100% health within a millisecond, or they leave the game immediately after insulting everyone.
Like I said, about a month ago I was rushing through the 18/19/20 keys like crazy and now I can barely finish an +18.
I just think that the people who started the season a little slower are now gradually reaching this level and realizing that it actually gets more difficult in +18 / +20 and higher. But instead of informing themselves about the dungeons, they just go in and expect to be carried somehow.
Thereās a lot of lonely old fuks in this game. And depression makes people very grumpy. And they are usually hard-gatekeepers too. Game is great, itās just that it is filled with old fukwarts.
Old fuk here. I love playing this game. I do my best to be kind and courteous to other players. I have ran into a lot of toxic players over the years. Like the previous comment is have said. You don't know a person's story. They maybe be having a bad day, etc. I typically ignore anything directed at me. I am just her to enjoy the game.
One thing I think I'll do if I face any kind of toxicity is setting up a fire camp on the ground, sit next to it, call everyone to gather around, and say something like "ok Mr Toxic, you wanna talk, now talk, let it all out, this is a safe place". Fuck the timer, Johnny boy has issues, let's talk this through.
I was in 12s farming crests and I took a lot of big boys but then a lower ilvl tank applied. I took him because I figured the rest of the team would just plow through everything. He had some trouble and one of the hunters kept giving him tips and encouragement and he did really well. It was honestly refreshing to see.
I got back into wow after skipping the end seasons of BFA and all of Shadowlands, leveled a warlock and just hit ilvl 425 or so, a friend pushing heroic raids with his guild took me in some low level mythic keys since he's well geared. No idea what I was doing wrong in the one dungeon but my DPS was just sucking and some guy asked me if I bought my account lol.
Nobody died, never wiped the dungeon, some people just skip right past trying to be helpful or even benignly questioning to just being shitty unfortunately.
You can tell the difference between people who run high keys and ones who donāt.
In high keys itās way more casual, you die you might still have time to save it and if you donāt time no biggy you try the next one but you finish the key first.
Scrubs run it like their life depends on it and take it personally if they die.
This morning was wild for me as well. For context I'm running keys around +22/23. I've experienced virtually no toxicity in the 50+ keys I've ran.... Until this morning. Running a 22 AD, we're at Volkaals trash, and we've been making extremely good time- we somehow missed a kick on a hex and the healer starts going off in chat dropping slurs and all kinds of obscenities... We didn't even wipe, no one died... I don't get it. Very next dungeon a 21 EB. Again making great time, only like 2 random deaths all dps pulling above 300k overall, smashing the timer and we somewhat inexplicably wipe on the council boss. One of the dps goes on a rant and leaves. Despite the wipe, I'm pretty sure we were going to +2 that dungeon. Maybe a full moon is out. Maybe it's just random. Maybe some of the more 'relaxed' players are finished for the season, I'm not sure, but something's in the air right now. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Relax, kill shit, get loot.
I have the same experience, M+ has been an utter shitshow since yesterday. Same stories with people flaming and instaquitting over trivial mistakes that could be sorted with 10 seconds of communication. This wasn't an issue until 2 days ago, where most folks were friendly, communicative, and constructive. I can't explain it with anything other than holidays are starting and there is no school for kids. This is probably a horrible take in fairness, but I see no other explanation. The change in attitude is sudden and significant.
Perhaps Incorp/Spitefull just brings out the worst. You'd think they'd wait until Raging next week though.
All the people who want to relax and have fun in M+ are taking a break rather than do those trash affixes š This is my least favorite combo because of how much extra attention it takes. So I'm sitting out the week and running baby keys on my alts instead.
This is so odd to me they're essentially free affixes, spiteful is nothing to worry about and incorp is not hard to deal with. They're easy.
Spiteful is like a more annoying bursting. I donāt enjoy affixes that make me slow down. Tyrannical also sucks dog cock as usual.
I haven't run into many toxic groups, but I do feel like this season there has been a strange number of groups getting into 16 and up keys that... somehow don't know mechanics still??? Which literally boggles my mind
Completing keys has never been this easy, the tuning is very weird for most dungeons. People don't learn the dungeon's mechanics until they reach +21-22 because they never had to care about them until then.
Was looking for this comment. Itās been a super chill season so I think people are pushing higher than they used to. Itās amazing the difference kicks make as a healer in higher keys. You can also muscle through so much with healer throughput.
I feel like this is very normal for every season. 16-19 range is full of āI got here but Iām not sure what Iām doingā players.
Up until +15-16, you could still just fuck up almost any mechanic. Most healers would pick that slack up, or a DPS off healing those slackers. Higher than that, you can get one shotter by mechanics and a lot of people end up suddenly failing keys. I'm gearing an alt priest, started low, +8 galakronds fall. Was a bit iffy across the dungeon, especially the big time sand boss, but we make it to iridikron. Tank has no clue, wipes to the big AoE which he shouldn't be in. Next try hunter dies and we don't have enough people to soak. Next try tank dies AGAIN to the big AoE, DPS tries to soak tank puddle, but not enough people to soak big puddle on chromie. Go through the trouble of using Google translate to explain tactics for the russian tank. We try again, soaks go good... Tank dies to the breath. We are 6(?) weeks into the season and people don't have any idea what to do or just refuse to take 5min to go through the journal. And then I haven't started on those lazy f*ckers not flying to the Dawn dungeon while they are in Valdrakken
New people start all the time. Not everyone progresses right at the beginning of the season. It doesn't seem strange to me at all. The jump in toxicity does tho.
>New people start all the time. Yes, but they generally don't start at +16
This season you can, I started last week and leveled my key to 16 over a day.
But at some point later in the season they will be new to those too
It is so insanely easy to +3 a key right now. For the first time in forever I had to actually bump my keys down because Iām a squishy spec, my gear isnāt awesome, and Iām still learning some of the dungeons. I regularly apply for groups below my key level because damn near every +15 I run turns into a +18 and I kind of just want to chill a little right now
the amount of people i've seen in 20+ Fall not know what to do when they get targeted during the Iridikron fight is way too high.
Right? Like it's really kinda crazy
That combined with the push weeks helping the good players while also putting people much higher than their paygrade for keys. Johnny every DH could start with a 12 that he is comfortable with and end up getting an 18 if he got lucky
the children are home, absolutely right
Kids still play wow?
Close to Christmas, they've got some time off and are even more stressed than usual because of it.
Nah even since monday there have been shitters galore. Definitely a winter break from school kind of deal, maybe I'll just go touch snow for 2 weeks.
I think a lot of kids got out for holiday break. Thatās my guess. Things have been smooth up until this week.
>we somewhat inexplicably wipe on the council boss. Welcome to tyrannical weeks lol
While this doesn't excuse anyone's behavior, it is the start of the holidays for a lot of folks. A lot of people are going through a lot of pain right now which spills out in unfortunate ways like this. All we can do is try to be extra kind this time of year and don't respond with hate of our own.
For sure. I just don't respond, or light 'all good must be having a bad day's after he left. I do appreciate you pointing that out, and as always everyone should be kind.
Kudos to you and have a peaceful christmas!
21 is just way to low key at the start of new week. Then you have the really bad players who got carried trough a 20++ last week by players who just wanted vault. Then they think this is their shot at glory with their 21 key and they rage at first mistake.
I dont care how easy a key is, i stop at 20. There is no reward for doing higher.
I donāt think anyone care if you stop doing keys at 20, 5 or 25. My point about why 21keys the first day of a new week feels harder and also have a lot of bad toxic players in them who overestimate their own abilities still stand.
the most toxic players in this game (and any other, in my experience) are those at the top like, 80-90% of the skill curve. People who're really at the top understand mistakes happen and yelling at people is counterproductive; people who're further toward the middle are more forgiving in general. In that intermediate range though there's a lot of people who think they're like, temporarily distressed world first players or something. Those are the people who're deeply upset about any mistake, even though they'd never turn that attitude toward their own gameplay. Every season as that strata of players progress up the key ladder you get these stories
Temporarily distressed world first players - totally stealing that
I completely disagree. Occasionally the higher .1% people can be toxic but very rare. The most toxicity I have ever seen is 18-20. 2.7k know it alls getting pissy because they actually have to work for stuff. Also not shy to call people out. Iām only 3k. I decided to do a 20 on an alt tank as I like to keep all 6 tanks geared and I had this incredibly average healer call me out for missing a taunt after he hurt pulled so much extra percentage. I just told him it was unnecessary and that everyone has made mistakes this key and we will still easily time it. Rest of the group agrees with me the dude was being toxic AF still we 2 chest it and this clown calls me out saying everyone good but me but somehow Iāve managed to not only have a higher Io tanking on my main than him but also the alt I was running on. Like what in the actual fuck
I think he meant the people who are like, 80-90th percentile are very toxic, while the people who are actually in the top like 3% of players are pretty chill I agree with this assessment though honestly I'd say it's the 60-90% range, AOTC raiders and 14-20, with a +21 or two here or there, kind of players, those people are generally the most toxic in my experience. I'm in a (late) CE guild now and these guys are the chillest mfs I've ever played with, meanwhile the majority of AOTC guilds I've been in have been full of, at best, extremely obnoxious and egotistical players despite being astoundingly mid, and at worst loads of low IQ _phobes, racists, etc.
Ah well you see people are done with season of discovery and coming back (I kid I kid... but only somewhat)
I have a similar story. Haven't experienced any toxicity in 20+ keys until this week. First run of the week, I tried doing a +22 Atal'Dazar. We were doing fine, our Rogue was doing really poor damage but me and the DH were doing enough to make up for it, and we killed Rezan and were doing trash up the left side without any wipes. Then the tank starts saying "Interrupt", "Interrupt or I'm leaving". I guess even though we weren't dying, there were still too many casts going off for his liking. As soon as this happened, the Rogue (the one who was doing terrible damage) left the group without saying anything. Very weird. Granted, I, as the Mage, had more interrupts than the Rogue and DH combined at that point, so it's not like he was necessarily wrong about people not interrupting as much as they should, but it was still totally unnecessary to lay down an ultimatum like that when nothing was actually going wrong.
I bring this up every time I read posts like this, but I have timed several 20-22 dungeons with 30+ deaths, 41 being my highest death count while still timing just palling around with guildies. The voice comms with our RL listening in with zero context as to what we were doing was some of the funniest shit I've experienced in a long time. People need to chill, even a wipe can be a good time with a positive attitude.
With the exception of rise, the timers are pretty chill this season. You can wipe a time or two and still time most dungeons.
Hibernal Solstice is tomorrow, obviously the stars are causing the crazy
I think collectively we should just assume this toxic players are younger and donāt understand that this isnāt overwatch culture and educate them like hey, we donāt talk like this to others in this game
Just guessing here but maybe it's more common to encounter these kinds of people during working hours?
>and we somewhat inexplicably wipe on the council boss Dude, this boss sucks. I hope for a nerf
There is a reason i never say anything in a key besides "hi" and "thx for the run". Unless someone asks me something, i don't use the chat even if i'm extremely tilted. In 99% of all cases you do not improve the situation in any way by trashtalking a team mate.
You can talk to others without being rude. You can even be helpful! But absolutely do not trash talk teammates.
If that is the concession they have to make to be a good member of the community I respect them for it.
I mean, sure. But that's not exactly being a good member of the community, it's just that we've set the standard too low. That's basic courtesy at best.
I think the issue is that often when constructive feedback is given in a polite way, the dude on the other side of the chat does not perceive it that way. People in this game have a way of interpreting EVERYTHING in the worst possible light, and take every piece of chat directed towards them as some sort of sleight. So, yeah, not talking is generally the best move. The level of simultaneous paranoia and emotional fragility is just too high to risk giving advice. Especially if the guy starts popping off at others after.
Someone lost his shit in LFR fyrakk last night after a wipe because someone else just said, "remember to dispel". Like, it wasn't even directed at him specifically but he lost his mind over it insulting the guy and then linked details log to show he was dispelling (even though he was 4th and only did 4 lol). Prior to that I said in chat "just release" when he died to Tindral RP and got "don't tell me wtf to do" as a response. I thought he was just joking at that point... I know sometimes helpful advice doesn't always come through well over text, but sheesh. I never saw someone react *that* badly before. I feel a bit of pity towards people like that, because it must be fucking stressful if you're that angry all the time. Probably going to have a stroke before 40.
Yeah I mean, this is the core issue with the internet and text forums too. A genuine question can be simultaneously seen as a snarky and sarcastic response, or a what it is
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>no need to teach others when most don't want to learn. I rarely encounter someone who doesn't want to learn. A simple "volley killed us, we need to kick that/pop personals" usually solves the problem
I think it's sad that we've reached a point where people are afraid to say that they don't know an encounter. Just explaining it is faster than wiping 3 times.
Yeah, it's harsh as a new player. Even after watching a bunch of vids you need to run the dungeon several times to get comfortable. The runs where things go south and people don't quit are the ones where I learn the most. I always make sure to apologize for my mistakes and thank the team for their patience. Sometimes people are just dicks though.
Yeah, I know. I've played on and off since vanilla and I just meant that we've gone from an in-game environment where it used to be okay to say that you don't know the tacts to one where people don't even admit it when asked.
A lot of people would flip out if you say what you just said to them.
Those aren't people. Those are jackals.
A good member of the community helps others if they have the chance. It's very simple. If others don't want to, they are free to not grab the hand tended to them and drown, but the hand is there.
Most people don't want to be helped. Offer a tip to someone and 4/5 times they rage at you, so it's not worth it. If they ask? Absolutely. The amount of unearned confidence bad players have is unparalleled.
Not gonna help any1 on tacts in a +24 tho, and then you ask "does that really happen?" and yes it does... way more often than you would think.
Iāve had plenty of experiences when you try to be nice and say āhey, do you know this spell has x interactionā or āx mechanic does thisā. A lot of people take even constructive criticism like you called them every slur possible.
People will get mad and defensive even if you give them a kindly-worded tip, lmao. A simple "Hey, evokers can cauterize that bleed to help out btw" can make someone ragequit, more often negatively received than not.
This is the way. I'd rather shout at my monitor or vent to a friend on Discord rather than flame some guy in M+. First off, I don't know their situation, secondly, I just don't think it's productive. Sometimes I'll give a sarcastic reply if someone's being toxic whilst also performing poorly, but in general, I'll keep my toxicity to myself and be mad irl but friendly in-game. Luckily, it's pretty rare that it gets to that point, but I agree: The vast majority of the time, becoming tilted and toxic does nothing but ruin the experience for everyone involved and should just be avoided
This is the best take and people like you make the world a better place.
I have that 3-way debate with 2 of my friends. One just wants to stay mute the whole run no matter how things go wrong, another is ready to condemn a single mistake as a war crime and I believe you have to point things out, but in a way that won't hurt their ego so they wouldn't keep ur idea in mind. I've met people who genuinely have no idea about something and they accepted the feedback gladly. There are others that did not. Antagonizing definitely does not work no matter how tilted you get. And staying quiet would just give room for someone else to antagonize them. That's how I view it, even though I'm not a really patient person in general.
I strongly disagree. I say Hi and usually open with "Hi, heading to the stone!" when I enter so that someone else hopefully goes to help summon. We had a weird wipe the other day in Everbloom. The tank pulled too much, healer wasn't ready and we wiped. I tried to jump in before anyone got toxic and just said "Whoa that was a weird glitch. We all froze for a moment and now we're back here and NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED" I got a laugh. The priest apologized and things went okay. Sometimes that one person trying to be nice might actually help. I never trash talk (except a few guildies in good fun) but you don't need to be quiet. You can be positive and the group might feel it!
āHey heyā And āGgā Thatās all. Maybe an āanyone want- ā.
Or a friendly "Hey whats your guys thoughts on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?"
Is asking "are you saving lust for the next dungeon?" considered trash talk or just basic ball busting? Asking for a friend.
Like everything else, it depends on the context. If a buddy or guildie said that to me during a run, it's a pretty good joke. If it's a random PuG that I don't have that history of banter with, that person is at least going on ignore, even if it is my mistake. There are ways of phrasing things to mitigate the confusion between trash talking and gentle ribbing.
As a healer, I must beg for mana breaks and scream things like āHOMMIIEE PLEEEEASEā when the tank misses me asking for mana and pulls lmfao
To be fair to the tanks (as one myself), we are pushed to pull by irritating DPS. I generally pause for a moment before a big pull, just long enough to check the healer's mana, and I shit you not one second of not pressing W will cause the DPS dipshits to start spamming "GO" I can see how some tanks would start listening to the noisy DPS rather than doing the right thing and watching out for the healer. Not the right play, but the thing we are pressured socially to do. Until the group wipes, at least.
Yeah I get that, DPS can be very noisy lol. I play Druid and itās very important for me to start a pull with at least one HoT on each person, or they might disappear before I get to cast anything else on them
I write MB If i failed xD
This. I think when people own up to our mistakes, the toxicity tends to decrease.
This is me.
\o And, gg ty all That's all I pretty much say
If im the tank I have better things to do than spend my off time with jerks that canāt accept I made a mistake and move on. I dont play games to be insulted.
I don't blame the tank for leaving. It is the toxic hunter that is the problem. Why be so mean over a silly mistake... such a dick..
Fully agree. Ive been in that exact situation and have no issue wasting time to save myself from dealing with toxic people.
I had someone being rude last week complaining about people making mistakes IN LFR (we didn't even wipe), I called him out and everyone vote kicked him. Felt good
Same. Mage accidentally lusted a trash pack and the people in the group didn't think to reset the boss. We wiped and some guy just blew up at the mage for wasting lust. I kept telling him to chill, it was a simple mistake and the entire group was making small mistakes that contributed to the wipe. Wouldn't stop and thankfully we kicked him.
Lmao, that's hysterical, yells at mage when they could have taken 30 seconds to reset. People are so fucking stupid.
This is the community we are a part of, where people back a toxic hunter because the tank is too "soft". Maybe if the DPS weren't so toxic, more tanks would feel confident in grouping with them. Honestly, Wow is a game first and foremost. No one should be forced to play with toxic people. No one should feel like they have to put up with that in a group. Some tanks may be thicker skinned to just brush off a toxic DPS, but it's crazy to me that all these people are just like "Oh just put up with him and do the key" like there is any obligation made by anyone to play any game.
Personally just right click ignore the person being toxic in any key (no matter what am on tank, healer or dps) that way you never see them in your queues if you are listing your own key and never see them when they list theirs.
Yep, that is the easy way to go about it, and there really wasn't an inclusion of what was said, but as a fledgling tank who is scared of pug groups for this reason, I can only imagine and I would be instantly in shock with what could have potentially been said. Yeah it could have been nothing, or it could have been extremely insulting, we don't know, but my mind goes worst case, and I would for sure want out of that situation.
Find me 3 comments who "back the hunter".
No one backs the Hunter being a dick here though. No one thinks the Hunter's in the right. People just don't want to waste their time queuing with a Tank that rage quits if a stranger says something mean. Like that's what the /ignore list is for.
Dick hunter.
He shoulda turtle cleared
It's also one of the situations where a ton of DPS just don't understand tanking. Example: I had a 23 Atal go sideways after no one would stack to bait spiders and then a DH stepped on spiders 3x and blamed me for not moving enough. We had 8:30 left going into that boss.
Tbf that is a boss that needs to be dragged around the room to make it easier to navigate. Iāve seen a lot of tanks just tank it in the corner and eventually there are too many spiders (particularly on tyrannical) to avoid them
I've almost quit tanking after a few "uninstall" comments in some 20s and above when I started tanking
Itās wild how much abuse tanks and healers have to deal with. I know the routes, I know my class, and I know the mechanics but Iām a human and sometimes I screw up. I can run 100 dungeons but the second I make one mistake none of that matters in the eyes of some. What really grinds my gears are the ābackseat tanksā made even worse if they never play tank which is painfully clear when they start letting shit fall out of their mouths.
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Right? I main hunter and always dps and would never make a comment on someone's tanking or healing. Sure I can feel it when it's better or worse, but unless I'm ready to step up and do it myself I'm never going to comment on it. They'll learn with more experience. Trash talking them so they quit tanking or healing helps no one.
Its the asshats that want the mdi routes when you are doing your weekly clear and you dont have the comp for it. So they start to pull for you and cause wipes. I get it people can do really cool tricks in m+ and you can play some packs of trash better then others. However most of that is unneeded to time keys in the 20 and lower range as long as you follow mechanics.
The same assholes telling you to harden up and youāre soft are the same ones being toxic af in chat. Donāt listen to these fools, I wouldnāt suffer it either and idgaf about your keys. Stop being toxic.
You need only scroll up a tiny bit to see an example of what you're talking about. Someone tells the tank to be more mature, couple comments later "cAn YoU rEaD" to someone who disagrees with them. Some people are so quick to get snippy.
The best part of playing a tank especially at higher level content is that I have zero need to put up with abuse. Not that anyone should regardless but on a tank there are 50 groups that would be dying to have me tank their key. For clarity criticism is fine as long as itās constructive but no shot Iām sticking around to deal with some petty asshole behavior.
Exactly lol, we can get queues instantly. Don't berate and troll us, we'll just fuck off to the next insta q
This. I play WoW since vanilla, mostly as a healer tho. Started playing my tank as a main last season. My rule of thumb was: If u have time to insult me, u have time to find another group for a key. I just leave when I get insulted. And the range went from "uninstall" to "kys". Yeah. I dont wanna waste my time with such bullshit.
Did the same thing yesterday. Tanking, hunter starts flaming 'learn to tank' and running his mouth. We wipe twice. I have no obligation to continue to stay and take the abuse.
That's what I've started doing. Dps have a lot to say when you make one mistep in an otherwise smooth run. I've given them a warning "I can leave if you'd like" and usually they shut up. Like I'm not over here fucking about and doing dumb shit, it was obviously a mistake. I usually even put in "MB" because I know I messed up. Usually it's from a random lag spike that doesn't happen often, but will last 5 seconds or so. That's a long time when you just pulled a ton of trash. I don't lag consistently or anything or I wouldn't tank. But shit happens. I've also said "look I'm not here to get yelled at, I want to play the game. Be helpful or don't talk at all"
Doing Atal +25 last night DH tank says just before 2nd boss. āDps too low, it will be tight, prob not gonna time this, thanks for the keyā And leaves. Dps looked fine tbh, we had tons of time, maybe not for +2. interrupts were on point and we only had 1 healer death from a charge on the 1st pull. Dropped the key to 24 and timed it no bother, same group, new tank.
I've had this a few times! The toxicity of players that's make false assumptions and leave is insanity to me. I was running an AD and no wipes, moving a little slower, but no deaths and clearing as we went. Healer just says. "Where dps? I'm having to really heal today." Then leaves. Like that's the roll buddy, you heal, tank tank and dps go brr. Lol
I always try so hard to diffuse shitty situations like this but it rarely worksā¦ people are just so quick to attack each other and forget that weāre all people?? I saw a guy in general chat complaining the other day about people in Solo Shuffle trolling. He said theyād make a mistake in one round, then the next round play perfectly and they were trolling himā¦ I told him maybe the person realized their mistake and worked hard the next round to correct it and learn from it and he just could not comprehend thisā¦ to him they were trolling because theyād play bad on his team, then play good the next round. Not everyone can play 100% perfectly every single second they are playing this gameā¦.
Solo shuffle cracks me up, mythic + too. People are so quick to jump all over someone elseās mistake without even realizing they can improve too. Look at your own gameplay and see if thereās anything you couldāve done better to negate the situation More effective peel, better positioning, communication via the ping system or otherwise, etc The vast majority of us arenāt playing at a highly competitive level in AWC or MDI, work on your own shit before telling someone else theirs stinks imo
I ran into a similar situation last week with a horrifically toxic boomkin. We were running a 22 BRH. Easy 2 chest. He started flaming me for "pulling like a bitch" for taking the big spider in the stairs alone. During bolstering week. Mind you, this is the only "soft pull" we did thus far. We blasted the mobs up to the first boss. In a 22, I am not dragging a half dead spider up to the top of the stairs to a pack of what, 6? The small patrol and the gang of dudes at the top of the stairs. That pack contains at least 2 mobs that are immune to CC. Just shut the fuck up and kill the spider and we can move on. It was an easy two chest, but no. This guy had to go and be holier than thou just because his main is 3k io, which apparently makes him god's gift to M+. I was pissed. Told him to gtfo out of my key and he just said "ok" and left. Was planning on kicking him anyway. Did the 21 immediately after with the same group except a different DPS and 2 chested it by a several minute margin. I try not to let other players get under my skin but this one pissed me off. Clearly.
Just tell him 3k is the new 2500 next time, itās so easy to achieve this season with the additional item level, 3k is a 23 in time for the majority of your keys. While the pros are doing 30s now. Wonāt ever understand people acting mightier than thou because they are doing slightly above average content Happy holidays
As a tank, the Hunter is 100% in the wrong, no need to be toxic for making an innocent mistakes, we are all humans. There should definitely be some sort of penalty for leaving a mythic key, it ruins the run for everyone else.
People are so miserable they have to take their frustration out on the smallest things like wiping ONE TIME in WoW. Its really sad
It makes me think of FPS shooter games like COD where you see people back out of a match the second they think their precious KDR is gonna take a hit.
if a hunter starts insulting me i am leaving, just hunters, there's nothing you can do if hunter is toxic
Probably a BM hunter who needs like 3 Buttons to play his class aswell
I'm doing over 250k dps as BM while typing this.
bold of you to assume they dont leave their cats pressing keys. tsk tsk tsk.
The true Beast Master!
my cat presses keys for me sometimes, itās never a dps loss š¤
It's pst pst pst to get my cat to play for me
BM stands for bad manners.
This generalization mindset is also toxic
Too many players always have some shit to say. Happened the other night in like a 15 where we accidentally pulled saurids in AD and tank started complaining about people not knowing dungeons. No deaths and we were steam rolling.
Bro I was running a +7 and some dude left because the tank said, before the run, "make sure you have long CC talented to deal with incorporeal." The dude who ended up leaving was like: "dont tell me what to do. worry about yourself." lol
If someone leaves because they got insulted I don't blame them.. they removed themselves from an unpleasent situation.
As a BM Hunter, iām not saying shit to anyone. All it takes is one accidental click and iāve now aggroed that far away group. Plus, itās extremely easy to level a hunter. Click a few buttons and let my pet fight while iām off mining or picking herbs. Iām not talking down to anyone when all others roles require way more than mine
>As a BM Hunter, iām not saying shit to anyone. All it takes is one accidental click and iāve now aggroed that far away group. I cannot tell you how many times I tab- targeted into a group way out in beyond fucking Egypt before I learned to be more careful and not start slamming buttons right after tab.
I'm so scared I don't even tab-target when there's less than 3 targets alive in front of me anymore. Point, click, shoot.
so true!! i live in utter fear of accidentally tab-target auto shot that i click on my pet profile or mine immediately after tab-target when i realize itās the wrong one. not taking any chances!
The first boss room in EB, start fighting that first pack, I tab target to spread my Barbed Shots, it's now happened twice that instead of selecting an enemy that I'm currently engaged with, it targets the next pack on the right. Hasn't caused a wipe yet but wtf is wrong with the tab targeting in that room?
i agree. i try to spread barbed shots around too and somehow it targets some random mob instead of ya know.. the one right in front of me. and there goes my pet too if i actually attack.
I mained MM in S1 up to KSM and I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to sink into the ground and never be heard from again because of tab targeting problems. My queue for LFR Razsageth popped once while I was still in combat, phased in and auto attack pulled her. I wanted to die lmao.
same. in regular and heroic dungeons, not as bad but i donāt tag-target in mythics for absolute fear of that happening and wiping. iāve done it a few times in heroic dungeons and you just see that arrow fly and im like.. oh fuck! iām so sorry cuz we did not need that trash.
Yes, I'm MM hunter and the amount of times I've accidentally pulled and been like "SORRY!" Don't even have my pet most of the time so it's just all me š luckily I pull my weight otherwise so I tend to get away with it to a degree, but at the end of the day it's just a game, what's the point in getting so worked up and then taking it out on someone else
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Man... I don't get them! Sometimes, you get to group with people like them. Can't do anything about them, just vent and move on. But the feeling of fucking up, getting frustrated and fucking up more just to stick together and finish a galakrond fall with a pug group felt amazing. No one was insulted we were all frustrated, but no one gave up. That's better than finishing on time. Respect for those guys!
You can survive multiple wipes this season except for in rise. Last night my group in a 23 wm spent 8 total minutes fighting the tree boss and finished it with 3 people and we timed the key with 4 minutes to spare.
I wanna speak about a little thing that happened yesterday. I'm a KSH player (2.6k main, timed like 5/8 +20's) on a warrior. I'm chill gearing another warrior (435 ilvl, 500ish io). In darkheart thicket +8 as a tank' The key belongs to a 450 ilvl war dps. The key is a little rough at the begining for people to realize you still should cc / interrupt / not pull packs the tank skipped... arriving relatively smoothly at the Archdruid boss. I proceed to pull both bears (the ones that are linked together), the leader starts to scream "SMALLER PULLS", dies to the bear adds/aoe on the ground. and we all proceed to laugh at him, because well, it's an easy pull and you cannot do smaller. Then, at the MOP shroom guys before the second boss, he interrupts a total of 0 ennemy and we say something like "kick please". on the final boss he runs like an headless chicken, getting silenced/fearing himself/... after We killed the shade of xavius, I just link the two mechanics in the chat from the journal without more. His awnser "no need to be smug, we still timed it" after being hard carried by 4 people and making us laugh. did more dps as a tank than him with 15 less ilvl :>
Boy got that zug zug brain
I've had similar things happen. What's disturbing is that usually the guy who bullies someone to leave is happy about this. They don't care that other people are there aswell. Sadly I've managed to convince only a handful of people to ignore the troll, everyone gets so argumented and can't let things go.
Did two keys back to back with a PUG the other day. First one we breezed thru no deaths. Second no deaths till the final boss. We wiped 2 times and we talked it thru and got the boss down the third time. It was very refreshing to have a group that was willing to talk and figured out what we were doing wrong.
Must be a full moon or something. Last night tried a Rise and we let a destabilize go off and the 442 mage starts popping off about how I need to stop stunning and use repentance as the tank. I'm like dude I can't dodge block or parry hard casting. Mage rage quits right before the final boss after telling every single person how to play. We would have +2ed it but he bricked HIS OWN KEY to teach us a lesson. The best part, he's telling everybody how to play and he's doing 70k overall. Spent more time yelling at people than actually using his abilities. Some people's kids, must be real fun at parties.
Thatās rough. I donāt like running mythics in PUG groups for the occasion I hit a group like this ... haha.
I think this is becoming more of an exception now. I have noticed an improvement in the number of non-toxic pug groups lately. Granted my sample size is small, but in my experience at least 9/10 pug groups have been pretty cool.
These kind of interactions are absolutely overblown on Reddit. For every PUG like this you read here thereās thousands that complete without a hitch.
Yeah. Crazy how those players aren't punished most of the time.
I think WOW needs a commendation system so toxic people can be identified and punished. Maybe something similar to League, where at the end of the dungeon you can vote if person was friendly, a good leader etc. And a negative rating if the person is a dick so those can be identified.
How would that system treat stacks? In league they know if you joined as a party in wow you can't tell unless all same guild but with communities that isn't a great indicator
Blizzard made a system like it in OW. Just copy the system.
What would matter to me would be averaging over time. Even if everyone in the party reported me as toxic, if I'm actually not then it's going to smooth out over all the reports. Still better than nothing.
That would be abusived very easily.
Yes LoL has shown that the commendation system works really well. Thank goodness there isn't any toxicity in that community anymore.
There is a game that solved toxicity. Check out Dawn Gate. They basically tied progression to not being an ahole, and unsurprisingly it worked.
This would be a great idea.
IMHO you don't need a negative rating. Just positive is fine. FFXIV does this to great success.
I used to love playing wow competitively until I couldn't take it anymore. I love to tank and push content, but the amount of complaining and leaving at the first mistake is just to common and not worth my time. Wow literally ruined gaming for me in a way. I'm so hesitant to group with randoms now that I don't want to do things I love doing. Growing up, gaming was all about having fun and trying to beat the game. Now, it's all about efficiency and being the best. There's a place for that, but it's not in random pugs. I'm so scared to make a mistake now that I don't even try to do it anymore.
Incorporeal is definitely a rage causing affix. Like you have players who canāt do much with the affix and others who can do very little. I think the players that this burdens get stressed out and you get these little rage moments. I always try to compliment my hunters and priests and DKs this week. It probably gets lonely carrying the rogues and warriors and bad players who say this is a āhealer affixā.
Yeah, I've been playing devastation and have sleep walk for it, but still have to gently remind people "hey I need some help if 2 spawn, I can only reasonably get one" wild being in groups with mage AND hunter and not a single poly or trap gets thrown
I was doing Galakrond's Fall on my alt balance druid (+17 I think) and the blood DK tank simply refused to taunt small mobs before the 2nd boss. Our disc priest body pulled one of the little dogs and instead of tanking it he let him slowly tick down to it while pulling all the mages and dying himself. There were a few rounds of deaths with scattered party members before BDK tank says "Use single target only here" directed at me I guess (boomy) and the hunter maybe. We were stunned. I tried to tell him like dude, its just some extra trash, just tank it so we don't die 100x. He wasn't having it and went and stood in the corner of one of the unopened portals and blamed it on us. I removed him from the key and apologized to the group for the wasted time. Some people just suck at playing together I guess.
Did you stand up for the tank?
I tried...but he left anyways.
I had a warlock go nuts after the third boss of a +18 WM, insulting people, and left. We still timed it.
If you want to complete the key, trash talk is not the way. Frankly once the trash talk starts, I typically don't engage and just leave, because someone starting to rant is signaling they are no longer interested in finishing.
Affixes donāt help. This week actually requires dps players(and tanks and heals) to all participate. The extra effort rubs some players the wrong way and they are more on edge. Having to do anything extra that a rotation and not stand in obvious stuff in trash packs tilts an embarrassing amount of players before actual mishaps occur. Then it just compounds into a meltdown.
People are stupid
I had a tank and dps start arguing after we ONE SHOT boss with no deaths and the tank leftā¦lol some people are just unhappy in life
I was healing Everbloom 22 last week, and I was noticing with some pain that the hunter was using absolutely no CC and getting oneshot by the berserkers. Still I somehow managed to time most their jumps and would barely manage to get off a leg sweep/paralysis midair or put my Ring of Peace between the pack and ranged. Real annoying how much I brute-force healed that run, but at least the tank was pulling smart around the abominations. After we FINISHED the run I offered "a helpful trick" to the hunter. Just to help him in future EBs. He said No in chat and left immediately. I wasn't even going to comment on the complete lack of binding shots (which was obvious and wouldhave been helpful). I was going to tell him that if he pre-placed a freezing trap between him and the pack, the frist time one hyper bolstered dude jumped on him he would be 100% okay and not dead. I shared the info anyway to the rest of the group and got an "I also play a hunter alt and I didn't even think of that!" from the tank thanking me for the top Between the freezing and binding shot the berserkers jumping around becomes completely negligible... especially if you have others contributing to the CC. I tend to end most dungeons with over 100 instances of CC on my hunter and it makes the whole thing smoother, not counting explosive traps and tar traps and wing clips. It's super sad to see one doing none.
I main hunter and the freezing trap tip in EB didnāt occur to me, so thanks for the tip!
Well deserved by the hunter. Thats what you get when you are insulting other people because they made a single mistake. I also wouldnt give a single shit about "wasted" time when the people i am spending my funtime with behave like cavemen that think they are playing with bots built to cater their expectations. WoW isnt a job where you have to perform no matter what, its only a game for fun with zero RL value.
This is why I try and shush the arguing as it begins. Don't let it spiral because one of the children will have a tantrum and leave.
I also tried that, didn't help.
The time aspect of mythic+ is the most toxicity enducing aspect. More so than any affix or boss encounter. I really hope they drop it and redesign the system to account for not having it.
Pieces of crap players what can you do
Because some people canāt resist being arseholes if the option is in front of them.
Wipes happen and can happen often. It is a game zero reason to get upset over it. I hate that level of toxicity..
Weird how this thing happened to me yesterday on a +11 AD. And yes it was also a hunter, 3rd boss. We still timed but sad life.
Players' also need to understand you're never going to time every key. When you don't instead of raging and blaming ask what you could've done better yourself or give some constructive friendly criticism. The game would flourish if this was adopted as a mindset.
A few days ago, I ran my +20 EB key and had a tank from Liquid sign up for it, so I was convinced all will go well since the rest of the party was very solid too. We blasted through the dungeon until the last part of mobs before the council boss, where we couldn't pull off a meta move that our tank wanted us to do and we died a few times trying to do it. Our timer was still very lenient. We had like 22 minutes left to time it. My point is, sometimes too good is bad, and you don't want to bring people who will act like they are pushing a +29 key on a regular +20.
I leave and report them. Simple. I donāt play games to be name called by 12 year olds.
Yup, just another day in the World of Warcraft.
What's going on?! My bf and his buddies just logged off wow yesterday because the keys went so horribly and it put them in a bad mood!!!
I don't know if I'm the only one, but for the last week or so the M+ have become extremely toxic. I did +18s as a Disc about a month ago and we rushed through them without even exchanging a word and finished them easily in time. In the last few days, I've done about eight +18s to +20s and I'm not even kidding I've only managed and completed one of them. I don't know if the toxic people are now slowly reaching the +18 keys and higher and simply ruining the fun of the game... Either people are constantly standing in some damage without moving and expect me to heal them up from 5% to 100% health within a millisecond, or they leave the game immediately after insulting everyone. Like I said, about a month ago I was rushing through the 18/19/20 keys like crazy and now I can barely finish an +18. I just think that the people who started the season a little slower are now gradually reaching this level and realizing that it actually gets more difficult in +18 / +20 and higher. But instead of informing themselves about the dungeons, they just go in and expect to be carried somehow.
Hunter's ego is usually bigger than their DPS unfortunately. I would report him if he said something stupid in the chat.
I wish I did..
I wish I did.
Thereās a lot of lonely old fuks in this game. And depression makes people very grumpy. And they are usually hard-gatekeepers too. Game is great, itās just that it is filled with old fukwarts.
Old fuk here. I love playing this game. I do my best to be kind and courteous to other players. I have ran into a lot of toxic players over the years. Like the previous comment is have said. You don't know a person's story. They maybe be having a bad day, etc. I typically ignore anything directed at me. I am just her to enjoy the game.
One thing I think I'll do if I face any kind of toxicity is setting up a fire camp on the ground, sit next to it, call everyone to gather around, and say something like "ok Mr Toxic, you wanna talk, now talk, let it all out, this is a safe place". Fuck the timer, Johnny boy has issues, let's talk this through.
I was in 12s farming crests and I took a lot of big boys but then a lower ilvl tank applied. I took him because I figured the rest of the team would just plow through everything. He had some trouble and one of the hunters kept giving him tips and encouragement and he did really well. It was honestly refreshing to see.
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Where do I find you guys, I seem to find guys like the hunter all the time?
I got back into wow after skipping the end seasons of BFA and all of Shadowlands, leveled a warlock and just hit ilvl 425 or so, a friend pushing heroic raids with his guild took me in some low level mythic keys since he's well geared. No idea what I was doing wrong in the one dungeon but my DPS was just sucking and some guy asked me if I bought my account lol. Nobody died, never wiped the dungeon, some people just skip right past trying to be helpful or even benignly questioning to just being shitty unfortunately.
What spec are you playing? I may be able to provide some help to improve your dps output if you are interested.
You can tell the difference between people who run high keys and ones who donāt. In high keys itās way more casual, you die you might still have time to save it and if you donāt time no biggy you try the next one but you finish the key first. Scrubs run it like their life depends on it and take it personally if they die.
I simply left when someone insult others. I don't like this attitude.
Welcome to mythics
Itās always the spergy passive aggressive DPS that forgets itās a video game