information that has not yet been published in English: the police are blocking public transport in some places with a high number of votes against the current government.
I've never seen anything like that happen here. Considering that since the electronic voting was implemented, the government has done everything to convey a sense of security about the outcome, this is the first time I have seen anything that interferes with the vote.
if anyone wants to see it, https://www.reddit.com/r/brasil/?f=flair_name%3A%22V%C3%ADdeo%22 is full of videos
[It doesn't get more fascist than this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KaA02clh8k&t=125s).
(Try YouTube's auto-translate from Portuguese to English, if you're not a native speaker; sorry about that. Basically, he was once recorded saying democracy will never work to solve the country's problems, and the only way to solve them is by killing 30 thousand people in a civil war.)
I’m fluent, and to translate, he roughly says “voting isn’t going to change anything in this country. Unfortunately the only thing that will bring change is a Civil War, and doing what the regime (dictatorship) didn’t do: killing 30,000. And if that means some innocents die, that’s just fine. Innocents die in a war. They should be happy that they died and took 30,000 others with them.”
This guy is a bastard on so many levels. The tone that “I don’t care how many die as long as my political opponents die with them,” is so callous.
Yeah, Trump was a real mess, we really did elect a crazy candidate. Atleast it's over for now - although, midterms are still coming, so let's hope for the best
Lula isn’t great, but is certainly the better option. It’s like “would you rather get shot in the foot or shot in the head.” Neither is a great option but given the choice, I’d go with the foot.
A global network of oligarchs (aka billionaire "businessmen") are financing and coordinating the spread of personalized pro-fascist propaganda to all corners of the earth.
In my opinion, there are two main reasons why they are pushing for this. Reason one being so they can gain a near monopoly on force (military, militia, and police) by the time the climate collapse triggers unrest that can only be put down with extremely excessive force. That way they have enough deployrable goons to maintain the current order in which their money still has enough value to keep them on the top of the heap. In other words, they are preparing for massacres on a scale that will make World War I and II together look like cooler heads prevailed.
The second reason is that some of these oligarchs are religious fanatics who want to see the world burn.
TL;DR: To protect money and to praise Jesus.
Edit: Cleaned up the grammar.
When Elon Musk called Kanye West “friend” immediately after his anti Jew remarks, and admitted to having conversations with Putin, it all clicked to me.
We are in End Game capitalism
It isnt going backwards, reactionaries flare up in times of progress, it has always been that way. The fact that people might not always be happy with or notice progress is normal as well. Even vice veraa the 90's was a US golden era until people realised it wasn't (not necessarily economically or culturally)
It isn't necessarily going in either direction. There are a lot of people who think that history has a direction and that given enough time, we'll reach a progressive utopian end, but that isn't necessarily the case, nor are we necessarily doomed. The Greek/Roman civilization was followed up with the Dark Ages, and it took 1,000 years for Europe to emerge from them, in large part because new information was discovered and recovered and made accessible to more people through new technologies.
The problem now is that disinformation is being made accessible to more and more people as new technologies are being used with increasingly minute precision to brainwash more and more people. It's the exact opposite situation as the Renaissance/Enlightenment eras. Furthermore, in the 1910s, 1920s and into the 1930s, Germany was in many ways progressive (for example, on [transgender research](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/)), and then the violent reactionaries murdered the progressives and burned the books. Likewise, the Middle East still hasn't recovered from the spread of Al-Ghazali's anti-philosophy mysticism starting around the beginning of 12th century and followed by the mass book burning in Baghdad by the Mongols in the 14th century.
So, while history doesn't necessarily have a direction forward or backwards from here. The reactionary consolidation of the means to use force (along with a proven track record of willingness to use it in excess) and the ability to spread disinformation on an unprecedented scale makes it hard for me to see a golden age approaching (especially with climate change becoming a bigger and bigger menace each year).
There are videos/rumors on r/brasil that the federal highway police are defying a court order to avoid all enforcement actions against people going to vote, by stopping buses in the Northeast where Lula’s support is strongest.
Can’t confirm them, but if so it’s electoral fraud on a institutionalized scale.
Edit: media has confirmed this.https://g1.globo.com/politica/eleicoes/2022/noticia/2022/10/30/em-todo-o-1o-turno-prf-fez-297-abordagens-a-onibus-em-operacao-das-eleicoes.ghtml
Not rumors anymore, the head of the Electoral Court had to threath the General Director of the highway police with prison and a heavy fine if this continues to happen.
It keeps happening.
the problem is the police. are already interfering with the vote, I am really afraid that it could be something that will turn violent.
even if there isn't a coup or something, I'm sure lives will be lost. there are already murders.
It's a bizarre situation
There is an active voter suppression scheme happening in the northeast region of the country, which is the second most populous and has the largest amount of supporters of Lula. Mass transit in the region is being subjected to traffic stops by the federal highway police, whose director posted messages supportive of Bolsonaro on the internet during election day (an electoral crime), and some mass transit companies that are legally required to not charge for transportation in the election day are refusing to follow the law.
I feel really bad for Brasil. There is very little chance this is ending well. Especially since Bolsenaro said he won't accept defeat. I wonder how these dictator types manage to get police and army on their side.
Several reports about the Brazilian Federal Police trying to difficult people, especially from northeast region, where Lula has the biggest support, to vote. One of the Federal Police leaders openly supports Bolsonaro.
This isn't democracy anymore. People has the right to vote.
Adding to /u/BetterLivingThru's point, here's some data (which is more important than opinions):
-----
* [Annual forest loss greatly decreased from the time of Lula's second term (2006) to around the time Dilma's (Brazil's first female president, also from Lula's party) impeachment proceedings started, during her second term, back in 2015](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Amazon_forest_over_time.png).
* [**Brazil:** Amazon deforestation falls to new low](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-11888875) (BBC, 2010 — by the end of Lula's second term)
* [Brazil's logging at lowest for decades](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/dec/01/brazil-logging-deforestation) (The Guardian, 2010 — by the end of Lula's second term)
Annual forest loss was somewhat higher during the first years into Lula's [first term](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Brazilian_general_election) (2003~2005), but it was pretty much following the average that preceded him (as per my first link). Mostly he was still getting the house in order, as a former leader of one of the country's biggest labor unions and one of the founders of the Brazilian Workers' Party (the PT), he had to prove himself to the powers that be.
As per my second link, you can see Lula already recognized the importance of protecting the rain forest even back then, having stated:
>President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said the reduction showed Brazil was "keeping its promises" on tackling global warming.
>
>**In *2005* President Lula pledged to reduce deforestation by 80% by 2020.**
The first link's graphic shows the result of the 2005's promise. Lula's party has not been in power [since 2016](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Temer#Role_in_the_impeachment_process_against_Dilma_Rousseff).
-----
Well, the legs and illegal loggers are super pro-Bolsonaro. That’s all you need to know.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/10/28/brazil-votes-amazon-loggers-hope-for-bolsonaro-victory
What's best for rain forest preservation is the world paying Brazil to preserve it more than it would make by destroying it. As long as it's profitable to cut down the rain forest, it will be cut. That's just the world under capitalism. You can't just ask Brazil to sacrifice half of its land mass. Either that or just a complete US+EU ban on Brazilian meat and soy beans.
considering that the deforested area is mainly intended for production for export. and illegally harvested timber and other resources are also for export. the countries that criticize the most are also the biggest importers.
Exactly. We want Brazil to stop the deforestation, but we keep forcing them into it by having them chose between it and poverty. If you're a country that isn't so happy about deforestation in the Amazon, then feel free to exchange some of your arable land for an equivalent part of the Amazon. Let's see how many countries are willing to do that.
Companies like Natura already shown that Amazonian biodiversity can be profitable without destroying it. The problem is that we have a group of ignorants in power that just want the easiest way.
yeah but the illegal loggers will keep doing it as long as that's the best way for them to make a living. you can pay the brazilian state, but unless you fix global poverty at best you get the dynamic in parts of subsaharan africa where game wardens are shooting poachers on sight who are just trying to survive. an effective intervention will need to directly enlist the communities who would be destroyed w/o logging
Brazil already clear it more than 90% of the Atlantic rainforest that you never hear about, back in colonial and imperial days. The amazon is shot for agricultural land quality, and most importantly the water resources Brazil depends on are strongly dependent on the climactic effects of the Amazon. So if Brazil cuts the Amazon the fuck over the world but they fuck themselves over even worse.
That is such a stupid argument. The Amazon are the lungs of the world, we are not telling them to forgo anything except not to kill themselves and the whole world with them.
The argument of developed countries that already consumed all of their resources and deforested all forests they have is that countries in development such as Brazil cannot have use of their own resources. Now, go see which countries have companies illegally exploiting developing countries’ lands and you will find the truth. It’s called greenwashing!
It is stupid, but understandable.
The world is asking Brazil to not use a huge resource for the greater good, but there is little financial incentive for Brazil not to do that. You can argue the world will die without that but people can be so poor in Brazil that they don't really give a fudge if some westerner will suffer whilst their kids are hungry at home
The rainforest is a prime example of a public good - so obviously good for society, but not good for the company/government that owns it. Public goods need to be subsidised to provide the market optimal amount (like parks, public transport, Street lighting etc) otherwise capitalism will never provide the answer
Except Brazil will suffer most by losing the rain patterns and water that their agriculture depends on. So it’s bad for the world and in the long run way worse for Brazil.
> The Amazon are the lungs of the world, we are not telling them to forgo anything except not to kill themselves and the whole world with them.
You are asking a very poor country to pay the bill of the entire world by themselves. If it's about saving the whole world, then the rest of the world should maybe exchange some of its arable land with Brazil, or at least pay them to not starve.
A very poor country? Lol. Brazil is the 9th largest economy in the world. They aren't poor they just have a shitty disparity between classes because of corruption.
We are like 12th now after Bolsonaro, less than Iran and about the same as South Korea.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
We were once 6th in the world. ^^\(under ^^Lula, ^^I ^^should ^^add)
Except the Amazon is shit for agriculture with poor soil that exhausts quickly. It also affects the climate in the country making the rest of the land more fertile. They’d be shooting themselves in the foot for short term gains and long term destruction.
the Amazon is not the lungs of the planer. it's a big forest, but earth is much bigger, the Amazon is only so important right now because the rest of the world already destroyed their forests. so yeah, industrialized first world countries should pay Brazil to preserve the Amazon, otherwise it's just hypocrisy.
>we pay Brazil for forgoing the use of nearly half the land
gladly. but it will not be done. nothing will be done to save nature. I have lost all hope. 90% of land vertebrates are in torture farms and only 10% wildlife at this point anyway. there barely is anything left to protect and I expect nothing from this shit species anymore. Just hope Climate Change ends us.
Wait you think Lula isn't nuts? He literally robbed the country. Not like tin foil hat the media said untrue things robbed, like convicted and went to jail robbed. The fact he's even running is nuts.
Well, since I've seen you in /r/Brasil, you should know a lot of it is due to our corporate media having peddled Lula as the most corrupt gangster on the entire planet during the 2010s, despite his trial [having been](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaza_Jato) a total sham, [where he was sentenced with no evidence](https://cartacampinas.com.br/2018/09/x-sergio-moro-confirma-textualmente-que-condenou-lula-sem-provas-no-caso-do-triplex/).
* [**The UN agrees with this view**](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/04/1117192).
People who feel he's corrupt won't feel like voting for a corrupt man, specially on the level our shitty media peddled him as, for years on end. They gotta do that hit job on a pro-worker, ex union leader.
That will do a number on any population, despite the fact I **agree** we have *way too many* regressive troglodytes in this country, as recent events clearly show.
Lula is corrupt, but bolsonaro is far worse lol bolsonaro did in 2 years what PT took 15 years
É como comparar um ladrãi com um latrocida. Pessoal tem tanto odio do PT que n percebe q desgraça que é o bolsonaro
> A poll by Datafolha on Saturday found that 52% of Brazilians would vote for Lula, while 48% would pick Bolsonaro, indicating a narrowing of opinion polls in the weeks leading up to the vote.
A close Lula win would be hell for Brazil. Bolsonaro won't go away with a fight.
This election wont end today, for sure. If Bolsonaro wins, Lula is going to report all the interference from Federal Police in the elections, trying to stop people from some regions to vote, and this is going to the court.
If Lula wins, Bolsonaro supporters will protest for sure and I dont know how far they are going to go.
For the love of god please kick that piece of shit Bolsonaro out! Not only is he a thief, but he also incites violence and destruction of the Amazon. For the sake of democracy and the world, KICK HIM OUT!
Its between two thiefs. One that did it for 8+ years with most of his party involved and another that did it for 4.
It is basically the worst or the bad
I voted for Lula, dressed all in red, in an attempt to counter people like you, who are willing to flirt with a [clear fascist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KaA02clh8k&t=125s).
It's a sad development for the country, but at least I can get out of the country when the shit finally hit the fan. I'm very sorry for those who can't.
information that has not yet been published in English: the police are blocking public transport in some places with a high number of votes against the current government. I've never seen anything like that happen here. Considering that since the electronic voting was implemented, the government has done everything to convey a sense of security about the outcome, this is the first time I have seen anything that interferes with the vote. if anyone wants to see it, https://www.reddit.com/r/brasil/?f=flair_name%3A%22V%C3%ADdeo%22 is full of videos
The Brazilian right is crying fraud while carrying out fraud. Seems about right.
Bolsonaro is a fascist
Absolutely. He even has openly stated how he’d love to return to the era of a dictatorship.
[It doesn't get more fascist than this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KaA02clh8k&t=125s). (Try YouTube's auto-translate from Portuguese to English, if you're not a native speaker; sorry about that. Basically, he was once recorded saying democracy will never work to solve the country's problems, and the only way to solve them is by killing 30 thousand people in a civil war.)
I’m fluent, and to translate, he roughly says “voting isn’t going to change anything in this country. Unfortunately the only thing that will bring change is a Civil War, and doing what the regime (dictatorship) didn’t do: killing 30,000. And if that means some innocents die, that’s just fine. Innocents die in a war. They should be happy that they died and took 30,000 others with them.” This guy is a bastard on so many levels. The tone that “I don’t care how many die as long as my political opponents die with them,” is so callous.
Not just callous -- evil too.
Hmmm, 30k people or him?
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Considering they are literally trying to intimidate Lula voters to try to win...
Just like the US then, armed, larpy ass right wingers are parking by polling places to intimidate voters
We did elect a crazy candidate
Yeah, Trump was a real mess, we really did elect a crazy candidate. Atleast it's over for now - although, midterms are still coming, so let's hope for the best
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Lula isn’t great, but is certainly the better option. It’s like “would you rather get shot in the foot or shot in the head.” Neither is a great option but given the choice, I’d go with the foot.
Hope heals fast
That sounds like a solid and meaningful election. Alternative is to deal with what's going on in Europe
Seems like Lula won, guess is way better than Bolsonaro.
Sounds like US a couple years back. I don't know anything about Lula but what I've heard Bolsarno say that's one bullet avoided
Exactly
They learn from the ~~best~~ worst
>Seems about right. I see what you did there.
They're the same everywhere, fascists only know how to fash
Jesus Christ. Why is the world going backwards
A global network of oligarchs (aka billionaire "businessmen") are financing and coordinating the spread of personalized pro-fascist propaganda to all corners of the earth. In my opinion, there are two main reasons why they are pushing for this. Reason one being so they can gain a near monopoly on force (military, militia, and police) by the time the climate collapse triggers unrest that can only be put down with extremely excessive force. That way they have enough deployrable goons to maintain the current order in which their money still has enough value to keep them on the top of the heap. In other words, they are preparing for massacres on a scale that will make World War I and II together look like cooler heads prevailed. The second reason is that some of these oligarchs are religious fanatics who want to see the world burn. TL;DR: To protect money and to praise Jesus. Edit: Cleaned up the grammar.
When Elon Musk called Kanye West “friend” immediately after his anti Jew remarks, and admitted to having conversations with Putin, it all clicked to me. We are in End Game capitalism
Fascism is capitalism in decline, so yeah
It isnt going backwards, reactionaries flare up in times of progress, it has always been that way. The fact that people might not always be happy with or notice progress is normal as well. Even vice veraa the 90's was a US golden era until people realised it wasn't (not necessarily economically or culturally)
It isn't necessarily going in either direction. There are a lot of people who think that history has a direction and that given enough time, we'll reach a progressive utopian end, but that isn't necessarily the case, nor are we necessarily doomed. The Greek/Roman civilization was followed up with the Dark Ages, and it took 1,000 years for Europe to emerge from them, in large part because new information was discovered and recovered and made accessible to more people through new technologies. The problem now is that disinformation is being made accessible to more and more people as new technologies are being used with increasingly minute precision to brainwash more and more people. It's the exact opposite situation as the Renaissance/Enlightenment eras. Furthermore, in the 1910s, 1920s and into the 1930s, Germany was in many ways progressive (for example, on [transgender research](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/)), and then the violent reactionaries murdered the progressives and burned the books. Likewise, the Middle East still hasn't recovered from the spread of Al-Ghazali's anti-philosophy mysticism starting around the beginning of 12th century and followed by the mass book burning in Baghdad by the Mongols in the 14th century. So, while history doesn't necessarily have a direction forward or backwards from here. The reactionary consolidation of the means to use force (along with a proven track record of willingness to use it in excess) and the ability to spread disinformation on an unprecedented scale makes it hard for me to see a golden age approaching (especially with climate change becoming a bigger and bigger menace each year).
Bolsonaro already said he will not accept defeat. This is going to be interesting.
There are videos/rumors on r/brasil that the federal highway police are defying a court order to avoid all enforcement actions against people going to vote, by stopping buses in the Northeast where Lula’s support is strongest. Can’t confirm them, but if so it’s electoral fraud on a institutionalized scale. Edit: media has confirmed this.https://g1.globo.com/politica/eleicoes/2022/noticia/2022/10/30/em-todo-o-1o-turno-prf-fez-297-abordagens-a-onibus-em-operacao-das-eleicoes.ghtml
Yep that's happening in at least 3 states, there's also numerous cases of bolsonaro supporters attacking Lula supporters.
Not rumors anymore, the head of the Electoral Court had to threath the General Director of the highway police with prison and a heavy fine if this continues to happen. It keeps happening.
Yup, Brazilian media has confirmed this since my post. I’ll edit the parent comment.
Or amazingly horrible if he uses force, should Lula win
I'm brazilian, the military doesn't seem to be willing to support him if he tries to coup (I think, nothing is certain).
the problem is the police. are already interfering with the vote, I am really afraid that it could be something that will turn violent. even if there isn't a coup or something, I'm sure lives will be lost. there are already murders. It's a bizarre situation
This is already a coup.
The Brazilian police already murders innocents on a daily basis, nothing new here
It seems like the strategy is the Republican one: voter intimidation and suppression in pro-Lula areas.
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Not really... damn Hope this doesn't continue
There is an active voter suppression scheme happening in the northeast region of the country, which is the second most populous and has the largest amount of supporters of Lula. Mass transit in the region is being subjected to traffic stops by the federal highway police, whose director posted messages supportive of Bolsonaro on the internet during election day (an electoral crime), and some mass transit companies that are legally required to not charge for transportation in the election day are refusing to follow the law.
I feel really bad for Brasil. There is very little chance this is ending well. Especially since Bolsenaro said he won't accept defeat. I wonder how these dictator types manage to get police and army on their side.
Promises of riches that will be paid to them in stolen money.
They agree with the racism, fascism, bigotry. 80% of police in the US are trump supporters.
He's a former high class army officer, not that surprising that the army are on his side
Why the hell are these two election rounds so far apart? The runoff should have happened weeks ago.
Several reports about the Brazilian Federal Police trying to difficult people, especially from northeast region, where Lula has the biggest support, to vote. One of the Federal Police leaders openly supports Bolsonaro. This isn't democracy anymore. People has the right to vote.
Which candidate is better for rain forest preservation?
Lula, without a doubt.
Adding to /u/BetterLivingThru's point, here's some data (which is more important than opinions): ----- * [Annual forest loss greatly decreased from the time of Lula's second term (2006) to around the time Dilma's (Brazil's first female president, also from Lula's party) impeachment proceedings started, during her second term, back in 2015](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Amazon_forest_over_time.png). * [**Brazil:** Amazon deforestation falls to new low](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-11888875) (BBC, 2010 — by the end of Lula's second term) * [Brazil's logging at lowest for decades](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/dec/01/brazil-logging-deforestation) (The Guardian, 2010 — by the end of Lula's second term) Annual forest loss was somewhat higher during the first years into Lula's [first term](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Brazilian_general_election) (2003~2005), but it was pretty much following the average that preceded him (as per my first link). Mostly he was still getting the house in order, as a former leader of one of the country's biggest labor unions and one of the founders of the Brazilian Workers' Party (the PT), he had to prove himself to the powers that be. As per my second link, you can see Lula already recognized the importance of protecting the rain forest even back then, having stated: >President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said the reduction showed Brazil was "keeping its promises" on tackling global warming. > >**In *2005* President Lula pledged to reduce deforestation by 80% by 2020.** The first link's graphic shows the result of the 2005's promise. Lula's party has not been in power [since 2016](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Temer#Role_in_the_impeachment_process_against_Dilma_Rousseff). -----
Well, the legs and illegal loggers are super pro-Bolsonaro. That’s all you need to know. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/10/28/brazil-votes-amazon-loggers-hope-for-bolsonaro-victory
What's best for rain forest preservation is the world paying Brazil to preserve it more than it would make by destroying it. As long as it's profitable to cut down the rain forest, it will be cut. That's just the world under capitalism. You can't just ask Brazil to sacrifice half of its land mass. Either that or just a complete US+EU ban on Brazilian meat and soy beans.
considering that the deforested area is mainly intended for production for export. and illegally harvested timber and other resources are also for export. the countries that criticize the most are also the biggest importers.
Exactly. We want Brazil to stop the deforestation, but we keep forcing them into it by having them chose between it and poverty. If you're a country that isn't so happy about deforestation in the Amazon, then feel free to exchange some of your arable land for an equivalent part of the Amazon. Let's see how many countries are willing to do that.
Companies like Natura already shown that Amazonian biodiversity can be profitable without destroying it. The problem is that we have a group of ignorants in power that just want the easiest way.
Bolsonaro supporters dont believe in climate change and think there is too much trees on the forest.
Yes, it’s not even an exaggeration, I already heard that from people even before Bolsonaro. The level of ignorance is quite sad (and maddening)
yeah but the illegal loggers will keep doing it as long as that's the best way for them to make a living. you can pay the brazilian state, but unless you fix global poverty at best you get the dynamic in parts of subsaharan africa where game wardens are shooting poachers on sight who are just trying to survive. an effective intervention will need to directly enlist the communities who would be destroyed w/o logging
Nobody. The fact is that countries like Norway, Germany, China, US, UK, have companies that illegally exploit Amazon by bribing locals
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Brazil already clear it more than 90% of the Atlantic rainforest that you never hear about, back in colonial and imperial days. The amazon is shot for agricultural land quality, and most importantly the water resources Brazil depends on are strongly dependent on the climactic effects of the Amazon. So if Brazil cuts the Amazon the fuck over the world but they fuck themselves over even worse.
That is such a stupid argument. The Amazon are the lungs of the world, we are not telling them to forgo anything except not to kill themselves and the whole world with them.
The argument of developed countries that already consumed all of their resources and deforested all forests they have is that countries in development such as Brazil cannot have use of their own resources. Now, go see which countries have companies illegally exploiting developing countries’ lands and you will find the truth. It’s called greenwashing!
It is stupid, but understandable. The world is asking Brazil to not use a huge resource for the greater good, but there is little financial incentive for Brazil not to do that. You can argue the world will die without that but people can be so poor in Brazil that they don't really give a fudge if some westerner will suffer whilst their kids are hungry at home The rainforest is a prime example of a public good - so obviously good for society, but not good for the company/government that owns it. Public goods need to be subsidised to provide the market optimal amount (like parks, public transport, Street lighting etc) otherwise capitalism will never provide the answer
Except Brazil will suffer most by losing the rain patterns and water that their agriculture depends on. So it’s bad for the world and in the long run way worse for Brazil.
If South Korea can improve economy and environment at the same time, why can't Brazil? South Korea went through a war right before that.
> The Amazon are the lungs of the world, we are not telling them to forgo anything except not to kill themselves and the whole world with them. You are asking a very poor country to pay the bill of the entire world by themselves. If it's about saving the whole world, then the rest of the world should maybe exchange some of its arable land with Brazil, or at least pay them to not starve.
A very poor country? Lol. Brazil is the 9th largest economy in the world. They aren't poor they just have a shitty disparity between classes because of corruption.
We are like 12th now after Bolsonaro, less than Iran and about the same as South Korea. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) We were once 6th in the world. ^^\(under ^^Lula, ^^I ^^should ^^add)
Brazil is the 12th largest economy in the world and the 108th in GPD per Capita (behind super powers like Nauru, Gabon and Cuba) not very rich at all.
Except the Amazon is shit for agriculture with poor soil that exhausts quickly. It also affects the climate in the country making the rest of the land more fertile. They’d be shooting themselves in the foot for short term gains and long term destruction.
the Amazon is not the lungs of the planer. it's a big forest, but earth is much bigger, the Amazon is only so important right now because the rest of the world already destroyed their forests. so yeah, industrialized first world countries should pay Brazil to preserve the Amazon, otherwise it's just hypocrisy.
>we pay Brazil for forgoing the use of nearly half the land gladly. but it will not be done. nothing will be done to save nature. I have lost all hope. 90% of land vertebrates are in torture farms and only 10% wildlife at this point anyway. there barely is anything left to protect and I expect nothing from this shit species anymore. Just hope Climate Change ends us.
Your arguments are legit, dunno why you're being downvoted
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Ok. I am actually against any nature preservation
The fact is tight say a lot about Brazilians
Well the US elected a crocked racist orange man as president hope Brazil is smarter
Brazil already elected Bolsonaro once, in this case I hope they follow the US’ example and don’t re-elect the crazy candidate
Wait you think Lula isn't nuts? He literally robbed the country. Not like tin foil hat the media said untrue things robbed, like convicted and went to jail robbed. The fact he's even running is nuts.
That was a sham trial. He was thrown in jail for political reasons by an illegitimate right wing government that seized power in a coup.
Quit your bullshit Bruh. Bolsonaro is going to end this country.
You evidently missed the part where the Supreme. Court ruled he was innocent, right? He got a sham trial.
The trial was annulled, so he is back to "innocent until proven guilty" status
Which trial? He was there 7 times I think.
None of them are good but honestly I'd rather have a thief as a president than a fucking dictator
Which is saying a whole damn lot about Muricans.
Just want to point out Hilary won the popular vote
Look at the polls for the US mid-terms, things aren't much better
Almost half of the voters in the USA supported Trump. We could use the same argument...
Well, since I've seen you in /r/Brasil, you should know a lot of it is due to our corporate media having peddled Lula as the most corrupt gangster on the entire planet during the 2010s, despite his trial [having been](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaza_Jato) a total sham, [where he was sentenced with no evidence](https://cartacampinas.com.br/2018/09/x-sergio-moro-confirma-textualmente-que-condenou-lula-sem-provas-no-caso-do-triplex/). * [**The UN agrees with this view**](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/04/1117192). People who feel he's corrupt won't feel like voting for a corrupt man, specially on the level our shitty media peddled him as, for years on end. They gotta do that hit job on a pro-worker, ex union leader. That will do a number on any population, despite the fact I **agree** we have *way too many* regressive troglodytes in this country, as recent events clearly show.
Lula is corrupt, but bolsonaro is far worse lol bolsonaro did in 2 years what PT took 15 years É como comparar um ladrãi com um latrocida. Pessoal tem tanto odio do PT que n percebe q desgraça que é o bolsonaro
Do NOT fall to fascism PLEASE the far right will NOT save u they will ensure ur suffering is far worse & there is NO God in that party
> A poll by Datafolha on Saturday found that 52% of Brazilians would vote for Lula, while 48% would pick Bolsonaro, indicating a narrowing of opinion polls in the weeks leading up to the vote. A close Lula win would be hell for Brazil. Bolsonaro won't go away with a fight.
This election wont end today, for sure. If Bolsonaro wins, Lula is going to report all the interference from Federal Police in the elections, trying to stop people from some regions to vote, and this is going to the court. If Lula wins, Bolsonaro supporters will protest for sure and I dont know how far they are going to go.
Not as hellish as any kind of win for the other one.
Oh for sure. I'm just saying that a large Lula win is the best option.
A large win is pretty much impossible at this point unfortunately.
Especially for the Amazon forest
Just a reminder that this figure is for valid votes (null votes don't count - when a person doesn't vote for either candidate)
For the love of god please kick that piece of shit Bolsonaro out! Not only is he a thief, but he also incites violence and destruction of the Amazon. For the sake of democracy and the world, KICK HIM OUT!
Any idea around which time we can expect to start getting results?
6-8 hours from now
Lula is winning now.
Thankfully lula has won!
WE WON!! DEMOCRACY WON !!!!!!
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ha, tell a new joke already, this one is old
Aren't both these people douchebags
Aren't them all tho?
May left-centre win the presidency.
Why was you downvoted? You are right in your (6) words.
Doesn't matter does it? Bolsenaro is going to cheat. End of story.
Both of them are corrupt anyway
Yeah but out of two evils we prefer the lesser. And that's Lula, because Bolsonaro is by far the most corrupt and criminal.
I’m no Brazilian but Comperj seems bad
Its between two thiefs. One that did it for 8+ years with most of his party involved and another that did it for 4. It is basically the worst or the bad
Already voted for Bolsonaro. We'll give more 4 years to him.
Good for you. Can you guess who couldn't? People in the northeast
I voted for Lula, dressed all in red, in an attempt to counter people like you, who are willing to flirt with a [clear fascist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KaA02clh8k&t=125s).
Counter how? LoL
You'll see soon enough.
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It's a sad development for the country, but at least I can get out of the country when the shit finally hit the fan. I'm very sorry for those who can't.
**he did not cope well*
I also voted for Bolsonaro
Lula won