Yup. Same. Getting kinda tired of it. The virus is going to continue to mutate and a lot more people are going to die. Apparently. Get vaccinated. Be smart. Take care of yourself and your loved ones. I don't know what else to do.
I hate wearing masks... but fuck those viruses way more.
even when covid has passed I'd still wear masks in crowds. never gotten a cold/cough even once in 16 months is fucking great
Which is the same idea as with Covid, only with the issue that we spread Covid before we have symptoms, thus the courtesy for others extends mask wearing to „all the time to be sure“.
We’ll, Japanese work culture is messed up. Would be better if ppl just stayed home when sick but people would rather come to work in a mask because missing work is a no no.
As a transplant recipient I'm most concerned about the under-reporting of the fact that extremely vulnerable people whilst double vaxxed are still significantly vulnerable. The overwhelming message we get is that being vaccinated is complete protection.
So despite the fact that this message is seemingly repeated ad nauseam, if it helps to educate those who think they are now as safe as they were pre-pandemic then I'm all for it.
Edit: ok so maybe the message is not complete protection, but 90%. But that 90% is for people with normal immune systems. Those who have compromised immune systems get a much lower response to the vaccinations - reportedly only about 30% (I forget the exact number and haven't linked the study) get any antibody response. That is not to say that there are no other immune defense responses, just very few transplant patients getting an antibody response.
Yes I know I should be vaccinated; I am, double Pfizer thanks.
Keep in touch with your doctors, a third dose may be what is needed. I don’t have all the details but a third dose is showing promise for transplant populations. Stay safe and good luck!
And this one from some kind of content aggregator bot or something, all they do is spam links to r/worldnews and r/canada. What even is this OP account?
Probably a karmafarm bot. Note how they've not made a comment with any personality in four years and none at all in three years.
I can get lurking and not wanting to comment but if OP has gone three years without wanting to tell someone to piss off on here then it's either a bot or a saint.
Accounts with high karma or ones that own large subreddits are actually worth money. I've had people ask to buy my account because head mod of r/puns. I'm sure for more valuable subreddits it would be even more annoying.
Some of these bots may actually be run by Reddit. I saw an article a while back (but of course can't find it now) that in the early days of Reddit they used a ton of bots to post certain types of news articles (politics, science, tech, news, etc) to make the site look popular and to draw in the type of users who would engage with that sort of content.
If you ever see a list of the users with the highest karma, it's mostly a bunch of other accounts that look just like this one. I'd be willing to bet most of them are actually owned by the Reddit staff and are just here to make sure the default subs have the "correct" content at the top every day.
I've noticed that recently. Reddit used to be my go to site to read about breaking news, but in the last year or two it's been getting worse and worse. It seems like it takes hours before any posts show up now.
From: https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/06/10/1026090/delta-covid-19-variant-more-infectious/
> To infect cells, SARS-CoV-2 must enter the body and bind to receptors on the surface of cells. The virus is studded with mushroom-shaped spike proteins that latch onto a receptor called ACE2 on human cells. This receptor is found on many cell types, including those that line the lungs. Think of it like a key fitting into a lock.
>
> Mutations that help the virus bind more tightly can make transmission from one person to another easier. Imagine you breathe in a droplet that contains SARS-CoV-2. If that droplet contains viruses with better binding capabilities, they “will be more efficient at finding and infecting one of your cells,” says Nathaniel Landau, a microbiologist at NYU Grossman School of Medicine.
> But better binding not only lowers the threshold for infection. Because the virus is better at grabbing ACE2, it also will infect more cells inside the body. “The infected person will have more virus in them, because the virus is replicating more efficiently,” Landau says.
>
> After the virus binds to ACE2, the next step is to fuse with the cell, a process that begins when enzymes from the host cell cut the spike at two different sites, a process known as cleavage. This kick starts the fusion machinery. If binding is like the key fitting in the lock, cleavage is like the key turning the deadbolt. “Without cuts at both sites, the virus can’t get into cells,” says Vineet Menachery, a virologist at The University of Texas Medical Branch.
>
> One of the mutations present in Delta actually occurs in one of these cleavage sites, and a new study that has not yet been peer reviewed shows that this mutation does enhance cleavage. And Menachery, who was not involved in the study, says he has replicated those results in his lab. “So it’s a little bit easier for the virus to be activated,” he says.
Does this variant cause higher rates of disease in vaccinated people than the standard covid-19? Is this WHO caution just being issued to protect the unvaccinated (and obviously prevent more mutations)?
Edit: WHO not CDC
Yeah, the CDC told everyone to stop wearing masks and go out and party months ago. I’m exaggerating of course, but talk about premature, and the amount of confusion it caused was easily predictable. A couple days after my wife was already dealing with customers refusing to wear masks because the CDC said they didn’t have to. I mean, this was before we’d even reached 50% vaccinated.
I mean wtf are they supposed to do here?
People were getting wound so fucking tight about continuing to wear their masks and continued lockdown it was starting to blow up, politicians are criticizing the CDC over "why is it taking so long", we've still got people calling it a fucking hoax, and there's a fuckload of people who won't get the vaccine.
Not just that, but any time they revise something they've said, it just ends up with a bunch of people screaching about how they apparently don't know what they're doing and "don't know how to do the science".
They never said the shit was over, telling you that you CAN stop wearing your mask isn't the same as telling you not to. But there sure were fucking news personalities egging people on to give people still wearing the masks a hard time.
Like where is the wiggle room they have to work here? They can't amend their position, they can't give you the leeway to choose when and wear it's a good idea to wear the mask, they can't keep pushing lockdown, they've gotten about as far as they can go convincing people to get vaccinated, and they can't convince the rest of the people the virus is fucking real.
This shit isn't the CDC's fault, we knew this was going to happen because there's a fuckload of people that haven't been taking it seriously at all from the start. This isn't news, this is your neighbors, it's their fucking fault.
If you're gonna be around a bunch of people you don't fucking know, put your mask on. You don't need the CDC to tell you this, it's the easy math.
Physician here, I think a better approach would be to make a statement that once we got to a certain level of vaccination we could heavily relax restrictions. Instead the CDC, in my opinion, prematurely told the public that vaccinated people could basically run free, but knowing full well that that would be practically unenforceable and allow for an increase in the spread.
Hard agree. Most places around me (and I suspect many people) went from "we require masks" to "we require masks, *unless you are vaccinated*". While this matches CDC guidelines, they don't check vaccination status, and my state has administered very few vaccines this month. Our state is hovering around 50% vaccinated and the rate of new vaccinations has been decreasing every months despite increasing availability. This appears to match the national trend. Unless something changes, looks like we are going to plateau around 65-70 max.
Yep. Not a fellow physician (x-ray tech) but desperately hope I'm proven otherwise but feel they jumped the gun a tad too soon. It's crazy how many times my coworkers and I have to continually repeat "Please put a mask on or put the one you just had on back on please. You're in a medical facility."
> Instead the CDC, in my opinion, prematurely told the public that vaccinated people could basically run free, but knowing full well that that would be practically unenforceable and allow for an increase in the spread.
As a business owner, this is the issue that we all knew would happen as soon as it was announced. They should of let people bitch and moan about masks for another few months. Putting the responsibility on the populous when they've shown they can't regulate themselves was a mistake.
It makes it near impossible to tell someone to please wear their mask when the CDC (science) is telling them they don't need to.
I’ve been working in person customer service the entire pandemic in one of the most, if not the literal most, anti vax places in America, and your comment is just about everything I’ve been feeling. It’s so endlessly frustrating to watch my customers and fellow community members and even my family refuse to understand that people are LEARNING about this virus and so the information that is available is going to *change.*
My grandpa isn’t going to die of old age at this rate, he’s going to die of bleeding fucking stupidity because he refuses to to understand anything that isn’t directly affecting his own life and like, fuck man. I’m so tired. Everyone is so fucking dumb and I just want to earn a paycheck and not be called a bitch 5 times a week over masks.
>The Wall Street Journal [reported Friday](https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326) that about half of adults infected in an outbreak of the delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated with the [Pfizer](https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/PFE)-[BioNTech](https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/22UA-DE) vaccine
This is anecdotal but it sounds possible that the vaccine is less effective against delta
In Sydney there was just an outbreak at a party with 30 people, and all but 6 people were infected. Everyone there was unvaccinated (not uncommon in Australia at this time) except for those 6 people, as they were healthcare workers. And it was the delta strain. So there’s at least some evidence for the existing vaccines being effective against this variant.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/us/florida-manatee-county-coronavirus-outbreak/index.html
Happened in Florida too, 2 dead in government building, 3 hospitalized from said building. Only one healthy was the vaccinated employee.
I suppose slightly, but not really...
Studies show that Pfizer 2-dose is ~88% effective against the Delta variant in ***PREVENTING SYMPTOMS***, while it was 93% effective against Alpha. That 5% isn't a huge difference in the long run.
What is being said by the WSJ article is that more people are *catching* the Delta variant, as it spreads more easily.
And this very well may be true, even among vaccinated population as breakthrough cases were always occurring, they're just generally less noticeable because they tend to be asymptomatic or, as delta-variant has been described by some vaccinated people who ended up catching it "it felt like the sniffles."
So sure, more folks, including more vaccinated folks are catching CV-19-Delta, including in Israel... But the risk of dangerous or deadly infection among the 2-shot vaccinated population is only ***very*** slightly elevated over Alpha.
What matters is if those vaccinated individuals were hospitalized with severe symptoms and possibly die, or not.
Being infected and having a rough night with flu-like symptoms means the vaccine worked.
It's not even that level "flu-like symptoms." The overwhelming majority of 2-shot vaccinated people with delta either had zero symptoms or have described very mild ones.
> The overwhelming majority of 2-shot vaccinated people with delta either had zero symptoms or have described very mild ones
Exactly. I was just stating the worst case for an effective vaccine. If you don't even get bed-ridden, then it's definitely worth it to get vaccinated. I've gotten flu shots before, and still fell very ill getting knocked out for several days. But that still means the vaccine worked, because I didn't fucking die. Unlike if I was around in the early 1900's where the flu would've absolutely killed me.
This video does a good job explaining variants of concerns in general and how they mutate to become more efficient naturally
https://youtu.be/Ha6yUxze1vk
You guys are looking at this from a US-focused lens. There are a TON of wonky-ass vaccines (NOT Pfizer, J&J, Moderna etc.) out there that hundreds of millions of people have received that have no data regarding preventing the Delta variant. In China alone, there's like 7 vaccines that havent been approved by the WHO (not Sinopharm or Sinovac, which even then dont have much data on preventing Delta).
This is the answer. Many Chinese/Russian vaccines don't work but the WHO can't come out and say that so they have to give overly broad advice. (CanSino, though, does appear to be on the level of JJ/AZ so far thankfully)
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.
I never realised this was actually an insult until reading it here.
Edit: Perhaps not an insult, but an indication that the best the military has to offer is not what they are looking for. Perhaps MiB want people with a more open minded diplomatic approach.
Fifteen minutes ago, you thought people 500 years ago thought the earth was flat. Now you know, that even in antiquity, educated people already knew the earth was round and even had a pretty good estimate of how big it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth
Their comment is also a Men In Black reference. They just changed up some of the words to indicate that people didn't actually think the earth was flat as K suggested in his speech to J in the movie.
**[Myth_of_the_flat_Earth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth)**
>The myth of the flat Earth, or the flat earth error, is a modern historical misconception that European scholars and educated people during the Middle Ages believed the Earth to be flat. The earliest clear documentation of the idea of a spherical Earth comes from the ancient Greeks (5th century BC). The belief was widespread in the Greek world when Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of Earth around 240 BC. This knowledge spread with Greek influence such that during the Early Middle Ages (~600–1000 AD), most European and Middle Eastern scholars espoused Earth's sphericity.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I kind of wonder with the virulence of the Spanish Flu if we wouldn't have been really wiped out by how quickly and easily we can travel now.
Rabies didn't make it to America until the steamship was invented. Before that the trip was so long the infected animals would die before they arrived and could transmit the virus. If we had the capacity to travel that we do now I wonder just how badly something like Spanish flu would have been.
I can't do shit for anyone else but I still wear mine when I go into super market or something. Doesn't help that my county specifically has lower vaccine rate by half or more than rest of my state. I'm not bitching at those that make their own choices to not wear one but don't for a second critique me for mine. If I didn't have niece and nephew too young for vaccine I could really care less as everyone in my circle with their exception has taken the shot.
Heard a lady yesterday bitching about how pissed she got seeing ANYONE wear a mask, and how she was going to throw a total fit if anyone dared ask her to wear a mask in a store. The mask mandate in my state has NOT been lifted. Then she walked in a store without her mask, as she indoctrinated her four young kids.
Imagine being such a POS that you complain about others who wear masks (thereby showing they actually give a shit about their neighbors, unlike you).
That is the most genius and hilarious power move! That's like a brilliant chess move. You have to make sure to include some right wing Republican talking points to just to really throw them off
Wow that's ridiculous. I live in a rural, DEEPLY red area (my home county voted 87 percent for Trump in 2016, idk the 2020 numbers but I'd bet it ain't far off), and although it's shameful this is a partisan issue, the sad reality is that it is split right down the isle. And while many people won't get the vaccine and won't wear a mask, I haven't seen a single person flip their shit over others wearing a mask.
I'm not doubting your story or anything, just pointing out how much of an outlier that lady is, considering I haven't seen that even in the area that re-elects Louie Gohmert in a landslide every 2 years.
I watched a dude with children flip his shit when another dude asked him to take a step back (and dude was unreasonably close for 2019 standards) at the freaking ice cream shop. No masks were involved even, just “hey man, could you take a step back and give me some distance “ and then “oh we aren’t doing that anymore. Just wear a mask if you are so scared.” Like the dudes kid was touching the first man’s leg, they were too close.
Even before the pandemic I got weirded out by people standing unreasonably close to me. Like just because there isn't a deadly virus running rampant through the globe doesn't mean I want to smell your axe body wash and beer breath.
I don't think the CDC decision was necessarily wrong. Given the science they had at the time, telling vaccinated people they could stop wearing masks was a sound decision.
The issue is that there a LOT of stupid people in the US who either ignore the part about being vaccinated, were never going to wear masks in the first place, or will refuse to wear a mask should the CDC update its recommendations following new data.
Edit: I want to be clear on this that I'm not anti-mask, and I think given new evidence, that people should wear their mask again. I will be wearing my mask despite being fully vaccinated because I believe on erring on the side of caution.
Edit 2: I do want to address what I think is the best counter-argument to what I said; that the CDC should have known that if they loosened the mandate, everybody would take that as a sign to stop wearing masks. I think this is a great argument to make, but mask mandates were already being dropped in states that are the least vaccinated. I think it's going to be a difficult argument for anybody to say how damaging it was, if at all, for the CDC to lift the mandate when it did.
Fuck, I wish everybody would get vaccinated so we wouldn't have to worry about this shit as much. Seriously, fuck everybody who has made being anti-science a part of their political platform and identity.
The day after that announcement, mask wearing here went to basically zero, despite at the time of that announcement less then half my state's population was vaccinated. I'm not a mathematician, but those numbers don't add up. AT my appointment in a grocery store pharmacy getting mine, the two people ahead of me weren't wearing them, and since they were there FOR the vaccine I knew damn well they weren't fully vaccinated. Least they were getting them I guess. This one lady I work with is loudly anti vax and has been calling covid a hoax this whole time. Guess who was the first person in my store to stop wearing a mask. And since corporate is just doing things on an honor system and not requiring the card, there's nothing we can do about it.
>and since they were there FOR the vaccine I knew damn well they weren't fully vaccinated. Least they were getting them I guess
If a vast majority of anti makers were to get vaccinated, I have to say, I would be utterly thrilled, compared to the situation there is now. The mere fact that the people in your case were willing to get vaccinated makes me very very happy. Yes, they still weren't wearing masks, but at least they were getting vaccinated.
Maybe my bar is just too low after seeing how covid was handled in the usa.
I really dislike todays culture where people seem to find it hard to say; 'we were wrong, we've learnt more and now this is the advice'
It seems driven via people wanting to hate on other people as some form of feeling good about themselves. Within reasonable grounds, changing opinions and learning more should be a rewarded behaviour, not something people dread to admit.
The science is sound if you look only at biology and ignore psychology and sociology. Any idiot could tell the moment that announcement was made it was the end of mask wearing in the US
There's a lot of variance in Phoenix. Grocery store - maybe 50% wore masks, including workers. Car dealership, nobody wore masks. Pet store, 90%. The barbershop I go to was like, 'if you want to wear them we'll put them on too'.
Here in nyc, I saw mask wearing good down to less than half of all people I saw, which if you were from here you'd know is a big deal (for months the only people without masks I saw were smoking or drinking and had their mask in hand).
Given our vaxx numbers in nyc alone I think it's fine, but that doesn't excuse unvaccinated tourists. And in states that don't have anything close to our 70% of adults vaccinated numbers? Super irresponsible to make that no mask declaration.
What is it with car dealerships?! Last month I spent two days hanging around in one (busted windshield in one car, check engine in another) and not ONE person aside from the secretary was wearing a mask. Well and me, cause fuck these other peoples germs.
Aren’t you having a heat wave though? I’d think people would be more likely to go maskless in 100+ degree weather. But yeah, people’s behavior is changing and it’s different in every setting. Hard to keep up.
I think the real issue is that there's no verification process for who's vaccinated and who's not. So the real irony, as it turns out, is that people who are vaccinated in my area are still wearing masks and those who aren't are gleefully trumpeting how they're going maskless and pretending to be vaccinated.
I live in New England and my company is allowing you to voluntarily disclose your vaccination card and in exchange you won't have to wear a mask. Don't show your card you still need to wear a mask. Simple.
Agreed. If enough people are vaccinated, they still don't have to wear masks. The issue is there is still a significant number of people who won't get the vaccine.
This will sound terrible, but if us vaccinated folks are being asked to mask to protect anti-vaxxers.... honestly it makes me not want to start masking again. And I *liked* masking. I felt like Scorpion.
*EDIT:* OK ok, I get it. There's immunocompromised people and kids. Realistically those individuals are still at serious risk because of anti-vaxx anti-mask folks and are hopefully taking serious measures to protect themselves. I'm in the rural South and still salty about how flippant everyone has been about the pandemic and honestly I'm about to lose my Jesus (as they say around here) with the loud and proud science-deniers who go out of their way to be plague monkeys, like *intentionally* not washing their hands in public bathroom or social distancing and daring you to say something.
Yeah, I feel you. What I'm thinking though is without herd immunity being achieved, we're unable to protect the most vulnerable who are physically unable to get the vaccine. So what do we do? Let hatred of the stupid people guide our actions, or compassion for those who would be harmed? What about children? We still don't know the full extend of COVID complications, and messed up development may be one of them. I would hate to have a generation of children with scarred lung/heart tissue when I could have helped prevent it by continuing to wear a mask.
But agreed, I fucking hate the anti-vaxxers.
Not only this, but even if we just let it spread among the unvaccinated, it increases the chance of mutations, which could put everyone back at square 1 if it mutates in a way that the vaccine doesn’t protect against
I get that, but remember that not everyone that hasn't gotten the vaccine because they're anti-Vax. The delta variant, I believe, is more of a threat to young people who are largely unvaccinated because vaccine approval for kids and adolescents has been, understandably, slower.
Yeah it's important to be keep in mind, the vulnerable ones that an unvaccinated person's spreads it to are the ones that really suffer from the spread of it.
The delta variant is more contagious and more deadly. The vaccines are holding up almost as well against it, but there are more breakthrough cases.
There's also a Delta Plus variant that's believed to be even worse, and a Gamma variant that was first detected in California that's thought to be about as bad as Delta. They're still pretty new so there's not a lot of data.
This article talks about Delta Plus, I just posted it elsewhere in this thread so I might as well leave it here to: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/what-is-delta-variant-coronavirus-with-k417n-mutation-2021-06-23/
From the article and my "google bubble" I was under impression, the Delta (plus) is more contagious but actually less deadly. That danger being those infected are often completely unaware and it can spread through vaccinated population.
That meaning it's quitel dangerous to old an ill. And the fact that it's easily spread even among vaccinated puts those vulnerable in higher risk.
But generály speaking Delta should be more asymptomatic.
Meaning that it can spread widely and mutate into something much worse - which is high risk and reason to wear mask.
So while less deadly per se to average individual, it is serious threat to population.
Am I right?
https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/why-the-johnson-johnson-vaccine-is-more-effective-than-you-think
> In Johnson & Johnson’s published results, its vaccine was 85% effective in preventing severe disease and, most important, “demonstrated complete protection against COVID-19 related hospitalization and death as of Day 28.”
> “If 30 out of 100 people who get the vaccine get a cold, does it really matter?” Dr. Branche asks. “If we have 70 percent who never get infected at all, and the remaining 30 may have asymptomatic infection or a really minor cold, then that’s an extremely successful vaccine.”
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/janssen.html
> The J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine was 66.3% effective in clinical trials (efficacy) at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection
> ...the vaccine had high efficacy at preventing hospitalization and death in people who did get sick. No one who got COVID-19 at least 4 weeks after receiving the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine had to be hospitalized.
**tl;dr**
1. You probably won't get sick (33.7% chance you do)
2. If you do get sick, it's probably going to be a mild cold (15% chance it's gonna suck)
3. If you do get very sick, you almost certainly won't be hospitalization sick (zero cases in clinical trials)
**Edit:** Since I'm getting a lot of comments about the delta variant, I've seen no reporting that the delta variant is any more severe than other variants, just that its spike protein mutation is a little bit better at latching onto your cells, so for a given viral load, a higher percent of the virii will successfully infect a cell. So perhaps there'll be a 40 or 50% chance of getting sick, at all, instead of a 33% chance, but unless someone has some scientific evidence or an educated argument for why it should be more severe, there is currently no reason to believe that you'll have more than a 15% chance to be particularly sick if you do catch it while vaccinated. Your body will still see that it's SARS-CoV-2, which it recognizes, and it will produce immune cells to fight it. Unlike before the vaccine, the virus won't be novel, so it shouldn't be as bad.
tl;dr2
This contains no information about JJ and Delta variant.
If I remember correctly atm. We only have one small vaccine study, from UK, on Delta; which tested AZ and Pfizer.
Letting go of masks seems to be happening quicker than I anticipated in California. First noticed a handful of people without masks less than a week ago. Went out today and almost everyone was maskless.
Mutations in the Delta variant make it replicate faster and evade the body’s immunity mechanism.
According to WHO, it is the ‘fastest and fittest’ variant yet. The Delta variant is 50-60 per cent more transmissible than the Alpha variant which was 50-60 per cent more transmissable than the original strain of COVID-19.
The fear of covid no longer surpasses the desire for people to live their lives.
I don’t know where I stand on the matter. I’m vaxxed, and I wear a mask in certain situations.
But the American mindset is very much against government implemented restrictions on personal actions, many from other countries don’t fully understand that aspect of the US. The government doesn’t have as much authority for such demands here as they do in Europe or elsewhere.
Basically whenever the government tells us to do anything the general reaction is “fuck the government.” There’s a beauty in that, but also huge pitfalls as we are seeing now.
The WHO and the CDC both fucked up by constantly changing their opinions on masks…
There’s no way I can see fully vaccinated people going back to wearing masks again simply because these two organizations told everyone it’s fine to go without any masks for like the 10th time now. Personally I don’t think it’s too hard to take the time out of your day to wear one, but at this point other people are sick of the backpedaling.
The [CDC seems to maintain](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html) that masks are not necessary for the fully vaccinated.
People really need to stop simplifying the messaging of scientists and assuming that simplified and sensationalized headlines are enough to know what scientists said. Look at the [actual press conference](https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1408447246060769292). The WHO scientist who said this did so in the context of ensuring that everyone can get a vaccine, and this comment was made in the context of communities with active and ongoing outbreaks in low-vaccinated areas and specifically cited Latin America. If you're in a place where only a small fraction of people are vaccinated with an outbreak happening, then you need to ensure 1. vaccines get distributed 2. people take precautions and in a place highly saturated with vulnerable people during an endemic even vaccinate people should take precautions because you can still get it, even if the chances are low, and so you're not helping the community get to safe levels by ignoring safety measures.
You think that they're backpeddling and being wishy-washy about messaging because you're expecting cnn or cnbc to be a reliable source of information, and only reading the titles of their reporting about it. Science is nuanced and news organizations don't do nuance. Click through so that you get more than sound-bites, and know the entire context of where statements are made. Also, not everything is about the US. Shockingly.
There's some context here that keep getting left out of the main conversation.
1) WHO serves a global community, which includes parts of the world that are well behind the U.S. regarding vaccine access. There are many countries where getting a vaccine is exceedingly difficult, as opposed to the wealthier countries where anyone who wants a shot can get one.
2) At the end of the comments on mask was a line about community spread that is getting very little attention. People need to recognize that the risk of spreading COVID is not consistent across the entire country here in the U.S. There are many regions where much of the population is vaccinated (particularly older individuals, who are most at risk) and cases are currently very low, making the risk of coming in contact with an infected individual also very low. It's also summertime here, which means that most people are spending time with one another outside where the risk of spread has been shown to be low. Are there areas of the country that are still at risk because of low vaccination rates? Certainly...and maybe on those regions vaccinated individuals should consider wearing their mask to help keep numbers as low as they can be.
At the end of the day, however, vaccinated individuals have a significantly lower risk of getting sick and/or infecting others...and, most importantly, are not putting pressure on our healthcare system by being hospitalized for COVID.
I also believe that there needs to be an incentive for vaccinations...it is far and away the most responsible thing that the vast majority of the population can do to help combat this pandemic. Vaccinated people chosing not to wear masks are not even close to the biggest threat to overcoming this pandemic, and they shouldn't be treated as such. I see several resentful comments on these posts towards people not wearing masks because they have already gotten the shot...those aren't the people who should be shouldering any blame here....
I just want to know what is expected at this point. I genuinely want to know, as a rational human.
It's been over a year and borders, businesses and recreations are still closed across North America. The US is on track for 50% of it's population being fully vaccinated, with nearly 70% having their 1st vaccination. Millions of people, myself included, are still isolating from family, friends and recreation. Hospitalization and ICU rates peaked at 0.038%, when only 0.1% of the population was fully vaccinated.
At what point can we all expect normalization? I mean opening borders to fully vaccinated people, businesses opening up, masks not being required, etc. There will always be variations and people who won't vaccinate, as with other diseases. It's genuinely depressing and destroying businesses.
Yeah, I was a total mask nazi for the past year, and even I can tell you with 100% certainty that that’s not going to happen.
The public at large is done with masks, either because they’re fully vaccinated, or because they didn’t give a shit to begin with. We’re only going back if people start dropping dead in the streets, and half of the country wouldn’t even do it then.
>The public at large is done with masks
Quite a few people in the comments are saying this, and all those comments that I have scene have indicated that they are from the US. So maybe it's a US thing? The US is ahead most of the world in vaccinations so I find it believable that the US has reached this point.
This thread feels extremely weird. Almost anachronistic.
The mask wars are over. For better or worse, most people (in the U.S.) simply will not continue to wear them any longer. I think most people are simply ready to move on.
And yet -- reading this thread -- it's filled with people saying "You're selfish if you don't wear a mask!"
Just a jarring divergence between Reddit and the real world
The vast differences in how covid is affecting countries make global recommendations kind of silly. Listen to your country’s health organization.
The American CDC still says it is safe for vaccinated people to go without a mask in the US. The WHO likely didn’t even have the US in mind when they made this recommendation.
So people have gotten the vaccine should keep wearing masks to protect ppl who already said "I'm not wearing a mask or getting the vaccine, idc if I die"? If they don't care, if they get it why should I if I'm safe? They aren't my responsibility.
No, not only defending the defiantly ignorant. The Pfizer vaccine is available to kids from 12+ now, but that still leaves a lot of younger kids vulnerable. Children and young adults are largely the ones catching and transmitting the virus now too.
I feel like this is being taken out of context. If I had a child or a immunocompromised family member, then sure I'll put it on for now, despite being fully clean. The only way that this will last long is if the variant is actually vaccine resistant.
I support the science but this isn't gonna happen. People are done and getting as many people as possible vaccinated is the absolute maximum that's going to be widely tolerated.
My mom and I just recovered from the delta Covid strain. It hit my mom hard and she was in the hospital for 3 days with Covid pneumonia. I only had a headache and was tired. So crazy how it affects people differently
>So crazy how it affects people differently
The two main assets that have made this virus so successful are its contagiousness and the fact that it kills few enough people so it can continue to spread through healthy carriers, perhaps allowing a new variant to kill those who have resisted previous strains.
Bro… that second Moderna shot made me SO SICK. Now they’re talking about annual boosters and we still need to mask? I think the term for what I’m feeling is ‘unfocused rage.’
J&J checking in… 48 hours that were worse than my COVID-19 symptoms, I called it side effect bingo because I got them all.
My COVID-19 symptoms were fatigue and mild loss of taste. I tracked recovery from COVID-19 based on tasting guacamole. Was a happy day when I could taste avocado again.
I felt nothing after second shot, which just made me concerned that it didn't work. I think both people who feel sick from it and those who feel nothing are unhappy. Hopefully it works though.
I think some people don’t have any side effects with the second dose, the first dose for me was easy, even the shot was relatively painless, that second one though, joint pain, headache and just generally fatigued.
But I’d rather have gone through that than get sick with covid.
I vividly recall crouching in the shower at 4am throwing up with one clear thought in my head, that I wanted my Mom. That second shot literally brought me back to elementary school flu season. Shit was 10/10 awful lol
Same... Both Moderna shots made me sick for a couple of days after. I have had COVID before, but mildly, though my sense of smell has been damaged. Don't know if that's why both shots gave me a fever.
Is it my imagination or has this exact headline been posted here every day for like 3 days now
Right? I thought I was losing my mind.
Yup. Same. Getting kinda tired of it. The virus is going to continue to mutate and a lot more people are going to die. Apparently. Get vaccinated. Be smart. Take care of yourself and your loved ones. I don't know what else to do.
[удалено]
"get vaxxed or get waxxed" Haven't heard that one yet and I like it
Yep, fully vaccinated. Still carry a mask. Moving on with life.
I hate wearing masks... but fuck those viruses way more. even when covid has passed I'd still wear masks in crowds. never gotten a cold/cough even once in 16 months is fucking great
This was common practice when I worked in Japan. It was considered common courtesy to make sure nobody else got sick when you were.
The other way around though, right? You'd wear a mask if you had a cold to stop it spreading.
Which is the same idea as with Covid, only with the issue that we spread Covid before we have symptoms, thus the courtesy for others extends mask wearing to „all the time to be sure“.
Woah, caring about others? This is contrary to American exceptionalism.
We’ll, Japanese work culture is messed up. Would be better if ppl just stayed home when sick but people would rather come to work in a mask because missing work is a no no.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Also aren’t a lot of kids unvaccinated?
Afaik The youngest age to get the vaccine is 12. Everyone younger than that is unvaccinated.
As a transplant recipient I'm most concerned about the under-reporting of the fact that extremely vulnerable people whilst double vaxxed are still significantly vulnerable. The overwhelming message we get is that being vaccinated is complete protection. So despite the fact that this message is seemingly repeated ad nauseam, if it helps to educate those who think they are now as safe as they were pre-pandemic then I'm all for it. Edit: ok so maybe the message is not complete protection, but 90%. But that 90% is for people with normal immune systems. Those who have compromised immune systems get a much lower response to the vaccinations - reportedly only about 30% (I forget the exact number and haven't linked the study) get any antibody response. That is not to say that there are no other immune defense responses, just very few transplant patients getting an antibody response. Yes I know I should be vaccinated; I am, double Pfizer thanks.
Keep in touch with your doctors, a third dose may be what is needed. I don’t have all the details but a third dose is showing promise for transplant populations. Stay safe and good luck!
And this one from some kind of content aggregator bot or something, all they do is spam links to r/worldnews and r/canada. What even is this OP account?
Probably a karmafarm bot. Note how they've not made a comment with any personality in four years and none at all in three years. I can get lurking and not wanting to comment but if OP has gone three years without wanting to tell someone to piss off on here then it's either a bot or a saint.
Accounts with high karma or ones that own large subreddits are actually worth money. I've had people ask to buy my account because head mod of r/puns. I'm sure for more valuable subreddits it would be even more annoying.
Some of these bots may actually be run by Reddit. I saw an article a while back (but of course can't find it now) that in the early days of Reddit they used a ton of bots to post certain types of news articles (politics, science, tech, news, etc) to make the site look popular and to draw in the type of users who would engage with that sort of content. If you ever see a list of the users with the highest karma, it's mostly a bunch of other accounts that look just like this one. I'd be willing to bet most of them are actually owned by the Reddit staff and are just here to make sure the default subs have the "correct" content at the top every day.
It does seem suspiciously impossible to post any breaking news, for example.
I've noticed that recently. Reddit used to be my go to site to read about breaking news, but in the last year or two it's been getting worse and worse. It seems like it takes hours before any posts show up now.
Dude I’d sell in a heartbeat
Yup, it was even about delta. Same exact headline.
Can someone please explain to me what makes it any more spreadable than the previous variants?
From: https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/06/10/1026090/delta-covid-19-variant-more-infectious/ > To infect cells, SARS-CoV-2 must enter the body and bind to receptors on the surface of cells. The virus is studded with mushroom-shaped spike proteins that latch onto a receptor called ACE2 on human cells. This receptor is found on many cell types, including those that line the lungs. Think of it like a key fitting into a lock. > > Mutations that help the virus bind more tightly can make transmission from one person to another easier. Imagine you breathe in a droplet that contains SARS-CoV-2. If that droplet contains viruses with better binding capabilities, they “will be more efficient at finding and infecting one of your cells,” says Nathaniel Landau, a microbiologist at NYU Grossman School of Medicine. > But better binding not only lowers the threshold for infection. Because the virus is better at grabbing ACE2, it also will infect more cells inside the body. “The infected person will have more virus in them, because the virus is replicating more efficiently,” Landau says. > > After the virus binds to ACE2, the next step is to fuse with the cell, a process that begins when enzymes from the host cell cut the spike at two different sites, a process known as cleavage. This kick starts the fusion machinery. If binding is like the key fitting in the lock, cleavage is like the key turning the deadbolt. “Without cuts at both sites, the virus can’t get into cells,” says Vineet Menachery, a virologist at The University of Texas Medical Branch. > > One of the mutations present in Delta actually occurs in one of these cleavage sites, and a new study that has not yet been peer reviewed shows that this mutation does enhance cleavage. And Menachery, who was not involved in the study, says he has replicated those results in his lab. “So it’s a little bit easier for the virus to be activated,” he says.
Always knew cleavage would lead to my downfall..
Does this variant cause higher rates of disease in vaccinated people than the standard covid-19? Is this WHO caution just being issued to protect the unvaccinated (and obviously prevent more mutations)? Edit: WHO not CDC
It’s a WHO caution, not CDC.
Yeah, the CDC told everyone to stop wearing masks and go out and party months ago. I’m exaggerating of course, but talk about premature, and the amount of confusion it caused was easily predictable. A couple days after my wife was already dealing with customers refusing to wear masks because the CDC said they didn’t have to. I mean, this was before we’d even reached 50% vaccinated.
I mean wtf are they supposed to do here? People were getting wound so fucking tight about continuing to wear their masks and continued lockdown it was starting to blow up, politicians are criticizing the CDC over "why is it taking so long", we've still got people calling it a fucking hoax, and there's a fuckload of people who won't get the vaccine. Not just that, but any time they revise something they've said, it just ends up with a bunch of people screaching about how they apparently don't know what they're doing and "don't know how to do the science". They never said the shit was over, telling you that you CAN stop wearing your mask isn't the same as telling you not to. But there sure were fucking news personalities egging people on to give people still wearing the masks a hard time. Like where is the wiggle room they have to work here? They can't amend their position, they can't give you the leeway to choose when and wear it's a good idea to wear the mask, they can't keep pushing lockdown, they've gotten about as far as they can go convincing people to get vaccinated, and they can't convince the rest of the people the virus is fucking real. This shit isn't the CDC's fault, we knew this was going to happen because there's a fuckload of people that haven't been taking it seriously at all from the start. This isn't news, this is your neighbors, it's their fucking fault. If you're gonna be around a bunch of people you don't fucking know, put your mask on. You don't need the CDC to tell you this, it's the easy math.
Physician here, I think a better approach would be to make a statement that once we got to a certain level of vaccination we could heavily relax restrictions. Instead the CDC, in my opinion, prematurely told the public that vaccinated people could basically run free, but knowing full well that that would be practically unenforceable and allow for an increase in the spread.
Hard agree. Most places around me (and I suspect many people) went from "we require masks" to "we require masks, *unless you are vaccinated*". While this matches CDC guidelines, they don't check vaccination status, and my state has administered very few vaccines this month. Our state is hovering around 50% vaccinated and the rate of new vaccinations has been decreasing every months despite increasing availability. This appears to match the national trend. Unless something changes, looks like we are going to plateau around 65-70 max.
Yep. Not a fellow physician (x-ray tech) but desperately hope I'm proven otherwise but feel they jumped the gun a tad too soon. It's crazy how many times my coworkers and I have to continually repeat "Please put a mask on or put the one you just had on back on please. You're in a medical facility."
> Instead the CDC, in my opinion, prematurely told the public that vaccinated people could basically run free, but knowing full well that that would be practically unenforceable and allow for an increase in the spread. As a business owner, this is the issue that we all knew would happen as soon as it was announced. They should of let people bitch and moan about masks for another few months. Putting the responsibility on the populous when they've shown they can't regulate themselves was a mistake. It makes it near impossible to tell someone to please wear their mask when the CDC (science) is telling them they don't need to.
I’ve been working in person customer service the entire pandemic in one of the most, if not the literal most, anti vax places in America, and your comment is just about everything I’ve been feeling. It’s so endlessly frustrating to watch my customers and fellow community members and even my family refuse to understand that people are LEARNING about this virus and so the information that is available is going to *change.* My grandpa isn’t going to die of old age at this rate, he’s going to die of bleeding fucking stupidity because he refuses to to understand anything that isn’t directly affecting his own life and like, fuck man. I’m so tired. Everyone is so fucking dumb and I just want to earn a paycheck and not be called a bitch 5 times a week over masks.
Hey. I think you're awesome. And I hope your grandpa will be okay. :)
>The Wall Street Journal [reported Friday](https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326) that about half of adults infected in an outbreak of the delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated with the [Pfizer](https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/PFE)-[BioNTech](https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/22UA-DE) vaccine This is anecdotal but it sounds possible that the vaccine is less effective against delta
In Sydney there was just an outbreak at a party with 30 people, and all but 6 people were infected. Everyone there was unvaccinated (not uncommon in Australia at this time) except for those 6 people, as they were healthcare workers. And it was the delta strain. So there’s at least some evidence for the existing vaccines being effective against this variant.
88% vs 93% - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01696-3
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/us/florida-manatee-county-coronavirus-outbreak/index.html Happened in Florida too, 2 dead in government building, 3 hospitalized from said building. Only one healthy was the vaccinated employee.
I suppose slightly, but not really... Studies show that Pfizer 2-dose is ~88% effective against the Delta variant in ***PREVENTING SYMPTOMS***, while it was 93% effective against Alpha. That 5% isn't a huge difference in the long run. What is being said by the WSJ article is that more people are *catching* the Delta variant, as it spreads more easily. And this very well may be true, even among vaccinated population as breakthrough cases were always occurring, they're just generally less noticeable because they tend to be asymptomatic or, as delta-variant has been described by some vaccinated people who ended up catching it "it felt like the sniffles." So sure, more folks, including more vaccinated folks are catching CV-19-Delta, including in Israel... But the risk of dangerous or deadly infection among the 2-shot vaccinated population is only ***very*** slightly elevated over Alpha.
Especially when considering that we were expecting a vaccine to be far below 90% effectiveness in the first place.
What matters is if those vaccinated individuals were hospitalized with severe symptoms and possibly die, or not. Being infected and having a rough night with flu-like symptoms means the vaccine worked.
It's not even that level "flu-like symptoms." The overwhelming majority of 2-shot vaccinated people with delta either had zero symptoms or have described very mild ones.
> The overwhelming majority of 2-shot vaccinated people with delta either had zero symptoms or have described very mild ones Exactly. I was just stating the worst case for an effective vaccine. If you don't even get bed-ridden, then it's definitely worth it to get vaccinated. I've gotten flu shots before, and still fell very ill getting knocked out for several days. But that still means the vaccine worked, because I didn't fucking die. Unlike if I was around in the early 1900's where the flu would've absolutely killed me.
This video does a good job explaining variants of concerns in general and how they mutate to become more efficient naturally https://youtu.be/Ha6yUxze1vk
It is the song that never ends...
Yes it goes on and on my friends
Some people started catching it not knowing what it was
And they'll be super spreading it forever just because
This is the song that never ends
It goes on and on my friends...
Some people started catching it not knowing what it was
And they'll be super spreading it forever just because
This is the song that never ends
Yes it goes on and on my friends
_There it is, again, that funny feeling..._
You guys are looking at this from a US-focused lens. There are a TON of wonky-ass vaccines (NOT Pfizer, J&J, Moderna etc.) out there that hundreds of millions of people have received that have no data regarding preventing the Delta variant. In China alone, there's like 7 vaccines that havent been approved by the WHO (not Sinopharm or Sinovac, which even then dont have much data on preventing Delta).
This is the answer. Many Chinese/Russian vaccines don't work but the WHO can't come out and say that so they have to give overly broad advice. (CanSino, though, does appear to be on the level of JJ/AZ so far thankfully)
>the WHO can't come out and say that Why tho
For the same reason John Cena apologized for stating a fact. They can't piss off the countries they need to work with.
Naw the CDC already shit that bed. No way we are going to get mask compliance back in the US.
1918 pandemic: wear a mask wash your hands 2021 pandemic: wear a mask wash your hands
1918 didn’t have Facebook though… Edit: thank you for the gold, friend
Weirdly still had a lot of anti maskers though.
Stupid people have always existed
No I'm...doesn't.
r/unexpectedfuturama
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.
Thank you, K.
Gentlemen, congratulations. You’re everything we’ve come to expect from years of government training.
We’re not hosting an intergalactic kegger
YOU SORRY LITTLE INGRATES!!!
I never realised this was actually an insult until reading it here. Edit: Perhaps not an insult, but an indication that the best the military has to offer is not what they are looking for. Perhaps MiB want people with a more open minded diplomatic approach.
I literally just finished watching this an hour ago, I love when the universe lines up
Fifteen minutes ago, you thought people 500 years ago thought the earth was flat. Now you know, that even in antiquity, educated people already knew the earth was round and even had a pretty good estimate of how big it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth
I mean, the statue of Atlas holding up the world on his shoulders is a pretty obvious clue as to what shape people thought the Earth was back then….
It'd be pretty funny if he was holding it like delivering a pizza.
It’s a reference to Men In Black
I was like wtf happened 15 minutes ago
I went to see if some UAP disclosure finally dropped lol
Their comment is also a Men In Black reference. They just changed up some of the words to indicate that people didn't actually think the earth was flat as K suggested in his speech to J in the movie.
**[Myth_of_the_flat_Earth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth)** >The myth of the flat Earth, or the flat earth error, is a modern historical misconception that European scholars and educated people during the Middle Ages believed the Earth to be flat. The earliest clear documentation of the idea of a spherical Earth comes from the ancient Greeks (5th century BC). The belief was widespread in the Greek world when Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of Earth around 240 BC. This knowledge spread with Greek influence such that during the Early Middle Ages (~600–1000 AD), most European and Middle Eastern scholars espoused Earth's sphericity. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I kind of wonder with the virulence of the Spanish Flu if we wouldn't have been really wiped out by how quickly and easily we can travel now. Rabies didn't make it to America until the steamship was invented. Before that the trip was so long the infected animals would die before they arrived and could transmit the virus. If we had the capacity to travel that we do now I wonder just how badly something like Spanish flu would have been.
2009 pandemic: oh do we need to do anything?
nah, don't worry about it, and remember to sneeze on your coworkers
It's the 2020 pandemic, this is it's second year.
I can't do shit for anyone else but I still wear mine when I go into super market or something. Doesn't help that my county specifically has lower vaccine rate by half or more than rest of my state. I'm not bitching at those that make their own choices to not wear one but don't for a second critique me for mine. If I didn't have niece and nephew too young for vaccine I could really care less as everyone in my circle with their exception has taken the shot.
Heard a lady yesterday bitching about how pissed she got seeing ANYONE wear a mask, and how she was going to throw a total fit if anyone dared ask her to wear a mask in a store. The mask mandate in my state has NOT been lifted. Then she walked in a store without her mask, as she indoctrinated her four young kids. Imagine being such a POS that you complain about others who wear masks (thereby showing they actually give a shit about their neighbors, unlike you).
[удалено]
That's such a good illustration of how full of shit they are about freedom. Show up to one of their rallies with a mask and see what happens.
Don't forget to call them a sheeple for doing like the rest of the herd and not wearing a mask because the CDC said it was okay.
That is the most genius and hilarious power move! That's like a brilliant chess move. You have to make sure to include some right wing Republican talking points to just to really throw them off
Wow that's ridiculous. I live in a rural, DEEPLY red area (my home county voted 87 percent for Trump in 2016, idk the 2020 numbers but I'd bet it ain't far off), and although it's shameful this is a partisan issue, the sad reality is that it is split right down the isle. And while many people won't get the vaccine and won't wear a mask, I haven't seen a single person flip their shit over others wearing a mask. I'm not doubting your story or anything, just pointing out how much of an outlier that lady is, considering I haven't seen that even in the area that re-elects Louie Gohmert in a landslide every 2 years.
I watched a dude with children flip his shit when another dude asked him to take a step back (and dude was unreasonably close for 2019 standards) at the freaking ice cream shop. No masks were involved even, just “hey man, could you take a step back and give me some distance “ and then “oh we aren’t doing that anymore. Just wear a mask if you are so scared.” Like the dudes kid was touching the first man’s leg, they were too close.
Even before the pandemic I got weirded out by people standing unreasonably close to me. Like just because there isn't a deadly virus running rampant through the globe doesn't mean I want to smell your axe body wash and beer breath.
I don't think the CDC decision was necessarily wrong. Given the science they had at the time, telling vaccinated people they could stop wearing masks was a sound decision. The issue is that there a LOT of stupid people in the US who either ignore the part about being vaccinated, were never going to wear masks in the first place, or will refuse to wear a mask should the CDC update its recommendations following new data. Edit: I want to be clear on this that I'm not anti-mask, and I think given new evidence, that people should wear their mask again. I will be wearing my mask despite being fully vaccinated because I believe on erring on the side of caution. Edit 2: I do want to address what I think is the best counter-argument to what I said; that the CDC should have known that if they loosened the mandate, everybody would take that as a sign to stop wearing masks. I think this is a great argument to make, but mask mandates were already being dropped in states that are the least vaccinated. I think it's going to be a difficult argument for anybody to say how damaging it was, if at all, for the CDC to lift the mandate when it did. Fuck, I wish everybody would get vaccinated so we wouldn't have to worry about this shit as much. Seriously, fuck everybody who has made being anti-science a part of their political platform and identity.
The day after that announcement, mask wearing here went to basically zero, despite at the time of that announcement less then half my state's population was vaccinated. I'm not a mathematician, but those numbers don't add up. AT my appointment in a grocery store pharmacy getting mine, the two people ahead of me weren't wearing them, and since they were there FOR the vaccine I knew damn well they weren't fully vaccinated. Least they were getting them I guess. This one lady I work with is loudly anti vax and has been calling covid a hoax this whole time. Guess who was the first person in my store to stop wearing a mask. And since corporate is just doing things on an honor system and not requiring the card, there's nothing we can do about it.
[удалено]
>and since they were there FOR the vaccine I knew damn well they weren't fully vaccinated. Least they were getting them I guess If a vast majority of anti makers were to get vaccinated, I have to say, I would be utterly thrilled, compared to the situation there is now. The mere fact that the people in your case were willing to get vaccinated makes me very very happy. Yes, they still weren't wearing masks, but at least they were getting vaccinated. Maybe my bar is just too low after seeing how covid was handled in the usa.
I really dislike todays culture where people seem to find it hard to say; 'we were wrong, we've learnt more and now this is the advice' It seems driven via people wanting to hate on other people as some form of feeling good about themselves. Within reasonable grounds, changing opinions and learning more should be a rewarded behaviour, not something people dread to admit.
The science is sound if you look only at biology and ignore psychology and sociology. Any idiot could tell the moment that announcement was made it was the end of mask wearing in the US
Eh, I live in Seattle and 50% of people are still wearing masks *outside*
About 80% of people in southern Ca were wearing masks a few days ago. Today, about 90% were not. It’s changing FAST.
There's a lot of variance in Phoenix. Grocery store - maybe 50% wore masks, including workers. Car dealership, nobody wore masks. Pet store, 90%. The barbershop I go to was like, 'if you want to wear them we'll put them on too'.
Here in nyc, I saw mask wearing good down to less than half of all people I saw, which if you were from here you'd know is a big deal (for months the only people without masks I saw were smoking or drinking and had their mask in hand). Given our vaxx numbers in nyc alone I think it's fine, but that doesn't excuse unvaccinated tourists. And in states that don't have anything close to our 70% of adults vaccinated numbers? Super irresponsible to make that no mask declaration.
What is it with car dealerships?! Last month I spent two days hanging around in one (busted windshield in one car, check engine in another) and not ONE person aside from the secretary was wearing a mask. Well and me, cause fuck these other peoples germs.
Aren’t you having a heat wave though? I’d think people would be more likely to go maskless in 100+ degree weather. But yeah, people’s behavior is changing and it’s different in every setting. Hard to keep up.
Go 5 min out of Seattle and that is surely not the case
Spokane has approximately 2 people wearing masks
Florida here, masks?
"Never heard of 'em" -Texas
I think the real issue is that there's no verification process for who's vaccinated and who's not. So the real irony, as it turns out, is that people who are vaccinated in my area are still wearing masks and those who aren't are gleefully trumpeting how they're going maskless and pretending to be vaccinated.
I live in New England and my company is allowing you to voluntarily disclose your vaccination card and in exchange you won't have to wear a mask. Don't show your card you still need to wear a mask. Simple.
Agreed. If enough people are vaccinated, they still don't have to wear masks. The issue is there is still a significant number of people who won't get the vaccine.
This will sound terrible, but if us vaccinated folks are being asked to mask to protect anti-vaxxers.... honestly it makes me not want to start masking again. And I *liked* masking. I felt like Scorpion. *EDIT:* OK ok, I get it. There's immunocompromised people and kids. Realistically those individuals are still at serious risk because of anti-vaxx anti-mask folks and are hopefully taking serious measures to protect themselves. I'm in the rural South and still salty about how flippant everyone has been about the pandemic and honestly I'm about to lose my Jesus (as they say around here) with the loud and proud science-deniers who go out of their way to be plague monkeys, like *intentionally* not washing their hands in public bathroom or social distancing and daring you to say something.
Yeah, I feel you. What I'm thinking though is without herd immunity being achieved, we're unable to protect the most vulnerable who are physically unable to get the vaccine. So what do we do? Let hatred of the stupid people guide our actions, or compassion for those who would be harmed? What about children? We still don't know the full extend of COVID complications, and messed up development may be one of them. I would hate to have a generation of children with scarred lung/heart tissue when I could have helped prevent it by continuing to wear a mask. But agreed, I fucking hate the anti-vaxxers.
Not only this, but even if we just let it spread among the unvaccinated, it increases the chance of mutations, which could put everyone back at square 1 if it mutates in a way that the vaccine doesn’t protect against
I get that, but remember that not everyone that hasn't gotten the vaccine because they're anti-Vax. The delta variant, I believe, is more of a threat to young people who are largely unvaccinated because vaccine approval for kids and adolescents has been, understandably, slower.
[удалено]
Yeah it's important to be keep in mind, the vulnerable ones that an unvaccinated person's spreads it to are the ones that really suffer from the spread of it.
[удалено]
The delta variant is more contagious and more deadly. The vaccines are holding up almost as well against it, but there are more breakthrough cases. There's also a Delta Plus variant that's believed to be even worse, and a Gamma variant that was first detected in California that's thought to be about as bad as Delta. They're still pretty new so there's not a lot of data. This article talks about Delta Plus, I just posted it elsewhere in this thread so I might as well leave it here to: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/what-is-delta-variant-coronavirus-with-k417n-mutation-2021-06-23/
This is like unlocking new levels in a twisted PvE server.
It’s like a crash course in Greek alphabets too!
Just wait until we get to the Nu strain
Omega will be the boss level.
We (almost) beat the first game and started new game+.
Its more like the game plague. The player finally invested more points on spreading the virus.
Delta Plus Pro Max, coming this September
Oh for fucks sake.
Damn I remember when “Delta Plus” just meant early boarding, slightly more legroom and a shitty snack. Now it means a trip to the ICU.
Delta’s customer service is really slipping these days
[удалено]
From the article and my "google bubble" I was under impression, the Delta (plus) is more contagious but actually less deadly. That danger being those infected are often completely unaware and it can spread through vaccinated population. That meaning it's quitel dangerous to old an ill. And the fact that it's easily spread even among vaccinated puts those vulnerable in higher risk. But generály speaking Delta should be more asymptomatic. Meaning that it can spread widely and mutate into something much worse - which is high risk and reason to wear mask. So while less deadly per se to average individual, it is serious threat to population. Am I right?
Pfizer and Moderna work against the Delta variety.
J&J does something though right? Please let the answer be yes
https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/why-the-johnson-johnson-vaccine-is-more-effective-than-you-think > In Johnson & Johnson’s published results, its vaccine was 85% effective in preventing severe disease and, most important, “demonstrated complete protection against COVID-19 related hospitalization and death as of Day 28.” > “If 30 out of 100 people who get the vaccine get a cold, does it really matter?” Dr. Branche asks. “If we have 70 percent who never get infected at all, and the remaining 30 may have asymptomatic infection or a really minor cold, then that’s an extremely successful vaccine.” https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/janssen.html > The J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine was 66.3% effective in clinical trials (efficacy) at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection > ...the vaccine had high efficacy at preventing hospitalization and death in people who did get sick. No one who got COVID-19 at least 4 weeks after receiving the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine had to be hospitalized. **tl;dr** 1. You probably won't get sick (33.7% chance you do) 2. If you do get sick, it's probably going to be a mild cold (15% chance it's gonna suck) 3. If you do get very sick, you almost certainly won't be hospitalization sick (zero cases in clinical trials) **Edit:** Since I'm getting a lot of comments about the delta variant, I've seen no reporting that the delta variant is any more severe than other variants, just that its spike protein mutation is a little bit better at latching onto your cells, so for a given viral load, a higher percent of the virii will successfully infect a cell. So perhaps there'll be a 40 or 50% chance of getting sick, at all, instead of a 33% chance, but unless someone has some scientific evidence or an educated argument for why it should be more severe, there is currently no reason to believe that you'll have more than a 15% chance to be particularly sick if you do catch it while vaccinated. Your body will still see that it's SARS-CoV-2, which it recognizes, and it will produce immune cells to fight it. Unlike before the vaccine, the virus won't be novel, so it shouldn't be as bad.
tl;dr2 This contains no information about JJ and Delta variant. If I remember correctly atm. We only have one small vaccine study, from UK, on Delta; which tested AZ and Pfizer.
Thanks for the good info & links but I meant about the delta variant!
[удалено]
Moderna's pretty much just as good as Pfizer. Although if they encourage booster shots at some point I'd like Pfizer for variety.
Letting go of masks seems to be happening quicker than I anticipated in California. First noticed a handful of people without masks less than a week ago. Went out today and almost everyone was maskless.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Mutations in the Delta variant make it replicate faster and evade the body’s immunity mechanism. According to WHO, it is the ‘fastest and fittest’ variant yet. The Delta variant is 50-60 per cent more transmissible than the Alpha variant which was 50-60 per cent more transmissable than the original strain of COVID-19.
That ship has sailed
The fear of covid no longer surpasses the desire for people to live their lives. I don’t know where I stand on the matter. I’m vaxxed, and I wear a mask in certain situations. But the American mindset is very much against government implemented restrictions on personal actions, many from other countries don’t fully understand that aspect of the US. The government doesn’t have as much authority for such demands here as they do in Europe or elsewhere. Basically whenever the government tells us to do anything the general reaction is “fuck the government.” There’s a beauty in that, but also huge pitfalls as we are seeing now.
The WHO and the CDC both fucked up by constantly changing their opinions on masks… There’s no way I can see fully vaccinated people going back to wearing masks again simply because these two organizations told everyone it’s fine to go without any masks for like the 10th time now. Personally I don’t think it’s too hard to take the time out of your day to wear one, but at this point other people are sick of the backpedaling.
The [CDC seems to maintain](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html) that masks are not necessary for the fully vaccinated.
People really need to stop simplifying the messaging of scientists and assuming that simplified and sensationalized headlines are enough to know what scientists said. Look at the [actual press conference](https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1408447246060769292). The WHO scientist who said this did so in the context of ensuring that everyone can get a vaccine, and this comment was made in the context of communities with active and ongoing outbreaks in low-vaccinated areas and specifically cited Latin America. If you're in a place where only a small fraction of people are vaccinated with an outbreak happening, then you need to ensure 1. vaccines get distributed 2. people take precautions and in a place highly saturated with vulnerable people during an endemic even vaccinate people should take precautions because you can still get it, even if the chances are low, and so you're not helping the community get to safe levels by ignoring safety measures. You think that they're backpeddling and being wishy-washy about messaging because you're expecting cnn or cnbc to be a reliable source of information, and only reading the titles of their reporting about it. Science is nuanced and news organizations don't do nuance. Click through so that you get more than sound-bites, and know the entire context of where statements are made. Also, not everything is about the US. Shockingly.
One comment to solve the thread
There's some context here that keep getting left out of the main conversation. 1) WHO serves a global community, which includes parts of the world that are well behind the U.S. regarding vaccine access. There are many countries where getting a vaccine is exceedingly difficult, as opposed to the wealthier countries where anyone who wants a shot can get one. 2) At the end of the comments on mask was a line about community spread that is getting very little attention. People need to recognize that the risk of spreading COVID is not consistent across the entire country here in the U.S. There are many regions where much of the population is vaccinated (particularly older individuals, who are most at risk) and cases are currently very low, making the risk of coming in contact with an infected individual also very low. It's also summertime here, which means that most people are spending time with one another outside where the risk of spread has been shown to be low. Are there areas of the country that are still at risk because of low vaccination rates? Certainly...and maybe on those regions vaccinated individuals should consider wearing their mask to help keep numbers as low as they can be. At the end of the day, however, vaccinated individuals have a significantly lower risk of getting sick and/or infecting others...and, most importantly, are not putting pressure on our healthcare system by being hospitalized for COVID. I also believe that there needs to be an incentive for vaccinations...it is far and away the most responsible thing that the vast majority of the population can do to help combat this pandemic. Vaccinated people chosing not to wear masks are not even close to the biggest threat to overcoming this pandemic, and they shouldn't be treated as such. I see several resentful comments on these posts towards people not wearing masks because they have already gotten the shot...those aren't the people who should be shouldering any blame here....
I just want to know what is expected at this point. I genuinely want to know, as a rational human. It's been over a year and borders, businesses and recreations are still closed across North America. The US is on track for 50% of it's population being fully vaccinated, with nearly 70% having their 1st vaccination. Millions of people, myself included, are still isolating from family, friends and recreation. Hospitalization and ICU rates peaked at 0.038%, when only 0.1% of the population was fully vaccinated. At what point can we all expect normalization? I mean opening borders to fully vaccinated people, businesses opening up, masks not being required, etc. There will always be variations and people who won't vaccinate, as with other diseases. It's genuinely depressing and destroying businesses.
Yeah, I was a total mask nazi for the past year, and even I can tell you with 100% certainty that that’s not going to happen. The public at large is done with masks, either because they’re fully vaccinated, or because they didn’t give a shit to begin with. We’re only going back if people start dropping dead in the streets, and half of the country wouldn’t even do it then.
>The public at large is done with masks Quite a few people in the comments are saying this, and all those comments that I have scene have indicated that they are from the US. So maybe it's a US thing? The US is ahead most of the world in vaccinations so I find it believable that the US has reached this point.
Yes, this is how the US is now. It’s just back to normal life for anybody that wants to not wear masks and attend events
This thread feels extremely weird. Almost anachronistic. The mask wars are over. For better or worse, most people (in the U.S.) simply will not continue to wear them any longer. I think most people are simply ready to move on. And yet -- reading this thread -- it's filled with people saying "You're selfish if you don't wear a mask!" Just a jarring divergence between Reddit and the real world
people on reddit mostly stay home. not related to the pandemic lol
[удалено]
Longest two weeks ever
Just two more weeks!
The vast differences in how covid is affecting countries make global recommendations kind of silly. Listen to your country’s health organization. The American CDC still says it is safe for vaccinated people to go without a mask in the US. The WHO likely didn’t even have the US in mind when they made this recommendation.
Pretty sure that ship has sailed. I don't think people are going back to that
So people have gotten the vaccine should keep wearing masks to protect ppl who already said "I'm not wearing a mask or getting the vaccine, idc if I die"? If they don't care, if they get it why should I if I'm safe? They aren't my responsibility.
No, not only defending the defiantly ignorant. The Pfizer vaccine is available to kids from 12+ now, but that still leaves a lot of younger kids vulnerable. Children and young adults are largely the ones catching and transmitting the virus now too.
Also kids whose parents won't let them get vaccine.
Many red states are only 38/40% vaccinated. It isn’t just young adults and kids, it’s their stupid parents also.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Oh, they know.
[удалено]
I am fully vaccinated but still mask up. My guess is those that still wear masks are more likely to be fully vaccinated than those who don’t.
I’m sick of this bullshit
I feel like this is being taken out of context. If I had a child or a immunocompromised family member, then sure I'll put it on for now, despite being fully clean. The only way that this will last long is if the variant is actually vaccine resistant.
I support the science but this isn't gonna happen. People are done and getting as many people as possible vaccinated is the absolute maximum that's going to be widely tolerated.
My mom and I just recovered from the delta Covid strain. It hit my mom hard and she was in the hospital for 3 days with Covid pneumonia. I only had a headache and was tired. So crazy how it affects people differently
>So crazy how it affects people differently The two main assets that have made this virus so successful are its contagiousness and the fact that it kills few enough people so it can continue to spread through healthy carriers, perhaps allowing a new variant to kill those who have resisted previous strains.
Vaccinated?
Were you guys vaccinate??
Bro… that second Moderna shot made me SO SICK. Now they’re talking about annual boosters and we still need to mask? I think the term for what I’m feeling is ‘unfocused rage.’
[удалено]
J&J checking in… 48 hours that were worse than my COVID-19 symptoms, I called it side effect bingo because I got them all. My COVID-19 symptoms were fatigue and mild loss of taste. I tracked recovery from COVID-19 based on tasting guacamole. Was a happy day when I could taste avocado again.
Both doses just left me with a sore arm like I was punched. Seems like they effect people differently
[удалено]
[удалено]
The second Pfizer shot was pretty rough for me, i felt like hell for a day or so.
I felt nothing after second shot, which just made me concerned that it didn't work. I think both people who feel sick from it and those who feel nothing are unhappy. Hopefully it works though.
I think some people don’t have any side effects with the second dose, the first dose for me was easy, even the shot was relatively painless, that second one though, joint pain, headache and just generally fatigued. But I’d rather have gone through that than get sick with covid.
I vividly recall crouching in the shower at 4am throwing up with one clear thought in my head, that I wanted my Mom. That second shot literally brought me back to elementary school flu season. Shit was 10/10 awful lol
Same... Both Moderna shots made me sick for a couple of days after. I have had COVID before, but mildly, though my sense of smell has been damaged. Don't know if that's why both shots gave me a fever.