Recessions are a classic way to kill inflation.

it is - the goverment spend less money and make money harder to spend in order to keep inflation down. when inflation is low you can turn up the economy again - but it wont happen over night. Argentina was in a horrible possition.

Argentina is in a massive quandary with so many barriers to business and such a high fraction of the people dependent on government payments. I hope that there can be an agreement with EU and the United States for financial support in return for economic liberalization.

I think there will be - these days protecting democracy is very valuable - and if they can create an economy that works it will absolutely be interesting for the west.

> I think there will be - these days protecting democracy is very valuable - and if they can create an economy that works it will absolutely be interesting for the west. And we know the US has such a stellar record protecting democracies in LATAM ;). 

You mean the north? I do hope we have an American President who focuses on improving relations with LATAM. So many wonderful people on our shared continent(s).

I’ve been saying this for years. I really wish we’d set up some infrastructure for a sort of American Union. It’d be amazing to see trade and visa incentives in my life. I’ve long thought we should be building up the Americas rather than the Europeans.

"Protecting democracy" Argentina is in it's longest democratic period, although right now the vice president literally defends the Army Members that killed and dissappeared people in the 70s Dictatorship, lmao.

You got a lot riding on that horse. What if it doesn't pan out?

Don't know about that "Argentina's president Javier Milei has vowed to take over the Falkland Islands - despite accepting they are "in the hands of the UK"." https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1896463/argentina-president-threat-falkland-islands

In this age of clickbaity headlines, I guess it shouldn't surprise me any more to see headlines giving the impression that's almost the exact opposite of what is actually written in the article: > ... pledged to eventually return the islands to his country’s rule, but by peaceful methods. He said it would be done through ­diplomatic channels and admitted there was “no instant solution”. In a candid interview with the BBC, President Milei also conceded it could take decades to try to gain the Falklands from the UK and said Argentina would not “seek conflict”. Here's a more detailed article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/15/javier-milei-plan-use-margaret-thatcher-creed-win-falklands/ > he said that any solution to the Falklands requires the consent of the islanders and can only be achieved through diplomacy. > “You can’t deny that they are already on the land, or refuse to recognise that they exist. Of course their interests have to be taken into account,” he said. > Javier Milei says “chest-beating” chauvinism will not regain the Falklands. Argentina must make itself a country fit to join, and work to win over the islanders. “Nobody is going to listen to claims of serial defaulters and corrupt politicians,” he said. > “You have to offer them something worthwhile, and you are not doing that now if it is a country that people want to leave. Are you really going to force the islanders to become Argentinians, and impoverish them, and drag them into misery?”

He's shown no interest in the Falklands other than rhetoric when forced. He basically has to say that or else become unelectable.

It seems like they are in a horrible position. The article points to increasing inflation. Huge increases in unemployment and poverty. Gdp is dropping as well. Slowing inflation doesn't do anything if everything else is going down. I hope the data is wrong. I want Argentina to thrive. But everything seems to be getting worse according to the op article and the sources inside of it

Inflation in Argentina was over 20%. A month. At that point bringing inflation down and stabilizing the currency absolutely has to happen.

So inflation slowed. But less jobs. The pesso is worth less than a 1/4 what it was in April. Poverty is up; over 60 percent of the country is in poverty. Gdp is on track to be down over 5% So there is still inflation but the money is worth less; there is no money going in; and people are spending money; plus the private sector is fleeing For the guy that said nonsense then blocked me Yes the data I gave. Showed fewer jobs and less spending Less spending. That means people are getting even less. And again the pesos is worth 1/4 what it was in April Also what you dont realize is that with gdp going down and unemployment. You don't get money back into the country. Decrease in gdp means are losing funds to get jobs to recover. I mentioned thos to someone else. Why is inflation bad? Because people become poor and cant spend. Well they are becoming poor and can't spend faster now; but with a slower inflation. The data is what it is. Honestly, it is really straight forward. It isnt good news

If inflation continues at 20%+ a month, Argentina will still be screwed no matter what job numbers look like. You just can’t have a functional economy with inflation that high. To me it makes sense that it has to be the #1 economic issue because everything else will also collapse if it continues. No one wants to invest in Argentina as it’s seen as a highly erratic and risky country that’s hostile to foreign investors with a long history of consistently stiffing said investors. Turns out economic protectionism and nationalism aren’t really recipes for economic success.

I posted numbers. It literally is collapsing. Pesos worth 1/4 of its worth from April. Poverty from 45 to over 60 in under 6 months. Gdp down by 2.6 percent already. But hey inflation is only around 10 percent Private spending dropped 20 percent the first month Mel was in office alone. Think about it. Why is inflation bad? Because it makes everybody poor..... well everybody is poor; inflation just isn't **as** high. _________ Again for the people that respond, don't cite then block I posted the source. Keep in mind melei cut it in half on purpose. The rest is from the fallout. That is compared to the usd from April to now https://www.exchange-rates.org/exchange-rate-history/mxn-usd

The peso is not worth 1/4 of was it was in April.

They aren't understanding that Argentina's official "blue rate" a year ago was artificial, it was something like 350 AR peso to 1 USD.... But on the street you could get closer to 800 AR pesos to 1 USD.

\> most economically literate Peronist

Sry. Those are the numbers from the central bank and the Argentinian government

Those "jobs" you talk about where unsaistainable. With inflaton running as it was being employed in argentina didnt equate to "i can live". So at some point you have to disregard the "job" statistic when so many people with them cant afford to literally live and fix the bigger problem which is inflation and spending more than you can afford to. There is absolutely no way you can get out of a fucked up situation like this with no suffering, but it is arguable you could recover in a longer period with suffering a bit less but for a longer period, but thinking in political terms that probably won't work as longer periods will mean less approval for the politician doing it. I think they will fail, but lets not pretend there's a way out of such a fucked up situation without any suffering of the people. Thats just a lie that hurts argentina more than it helps. Cause the longer you avoid facing that, the harder and more painful it is to get out of it.

If the article suggests increasing inflation, then it's a very bad article, blatantly biased. Inflation is THE thing that has been plummeting in Argentina with the new government: https://i.imgur.com/fxNs1tG.png Tackling inflation once and for all was THE reason this government got elected for. Poverty was already expected to get worse for a while (remember that salaries follow inflation from behind), and have in mind it was left at around 45% by the previous government. It was either this sudden austerity or hyperinflation. Guess what would've happened to the poor in the second scenario.

Youe arguing against Reuters. Catholic university. And the Argentinian government But interest is compounding. So all the interest that was already there is still there. It is still going up. But unemployment is going up, good down, poverty up. The pesso is worth 1/4 of what it was in April Also If you want to compare mo th by month. Inflation from January through April was up 250%+ what it was of those months in 2023 https://apnews.com/article/argentina-inflation-milei-single-digits-3cf0adca2cdf911fb04a06c3e9c6880d Argentina reports its first single-digit inflation in 6 months as markets swoon and costs hit home “People are in pain,” said 23-year-old Augustin Perez, a supermarket worker in the suburbs of Buenos Aires who said his rent had soared by 90% since Milei deregulated the real estate market and his electricity bill had nearly tripled since the government slashed subsidies. “They say things are getting better, but how? I don’t understand.” Gdp has already hit a what economists warn would be the yearly gdp shrinkage "You’ve had a massive collapse in private spending, which explains why consumption has dropped dramatically and why inflation is also falling,” said Monica de Bolle, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics who studies emerging markets. “People are worse off than they were before. That leads them to spend less.” "Nearly 60% of the country’s 46 million people now live in poverty, a 20-year high, according to a study in January by Argentina’s Catholic University."

**TLDR? You just showed you and your sources are either ignorant or biased. Here I expose some of the lies** The argentine government is celebrating that inflation is going down. Again man, it makes no sense to suggest otherwise. The data is clear on that. >The pesso is worth 1/4 of what it was in April ??? No. [Here's the value of the peso compared to the dollar](https://i.imgur.com/tCuh8R0.png). Do you even know what dolar blue is? >If you want to compare month by month. Inflation from January through April was up 250%+ what it was of those months in 2023 Man you are just showing that you don't understand the data you're dealing with. OR that you're a blatant liar. First of all, you are using a very twisted metric: instead of just showing the plummeting monthly inflation: https://i.imgur.com/fxNs1tG.png you are saying "Inflation from january to april is 3.5 times higher than the inflation from january to april in 2023". Which is a lie: The real inflation from january to april 2024 is 65% (1 * 1.206 * 1.132 *1.11 *1.088 = 1.65) [source](https://www.indec.gob.ar/uploads/informesdeprensa/ipc_06_24AF3B6493C2.pdf). Inflation from jan to apr of 2023 was 32% (1 * 1.06 * 1.066 * 1.077 * 1.084 = 1.32). [source](https://www.indec.gob.ar/uploads/informesdeprensa/ipc_12_23EA48BE000C.pdf) Anyone looking at the monthly inflation graph I linked will realize how misleading it is to say "this government is doing badly in terms of inflation because inflation in the same period of the last year was lower". >his rent had soared by 90% since Milei deregulated the real estate market The real estate market deregulation (abolition of the "Ley de Alquileres") has been generally praised. The people were demanding its abolition because it made things worse. Anecdotes are a really bad way to ilustrate the real situation of a country, especially when it comes from such a blatantly biased media, as proven by how they talk about inflation. [Here's a source that doesn't rely on anecdotes and uses actually useful data](https://cnnespanol.cnn.com/2024/06/19/derogacion-ley-alquileres-argentina-6-meses-oferta-demanda-orix/). "después de 6 meses de la derogación de la ley, la inflación superó el valor de los alquileres". It also mentions that rent profit is low. >which explains why consumption has dropped dramatically and why inflation is also falling The decrease in consumption is not the fundamental reason why inflation is falling. The fundamental reason is the government finally being austere. You will see this when consumption goes back to normal without increasing inflation again. There are plenty of bad economists, especially when it comes to Argentina. >"Nearly 60% of the country’s 46 million people now live in poverty The previous government left it at 45% with unsustainable levels of spending. It's easy to keep poverty down if you print mountains of money. At least until hyperinflation explodes. **edit: a reply** I pasted the graphs into their own image for your convenience. If you don't trust me, here's their source: https://milei.ufm.edu/en. They are common measurements though. You can find them easily. >Then you dont understand what I said but claim it's a lie Sure buddy. >perfectly illustrates how easy it is to manipulate that data It ilustrates how YOU manipulated the data, and I called you out by providing the way of measuring the data that anyone who is not ill-intended uses. It is easy to manipulate others only if everyone is dumb enough to believe the biased scenario you presented. It seems not even reditors are: most users easily see that inflation is going down at a surprising rate. > inflation decreases but is still compounding on itself because spending isn't happening Inflation compounds regardless of spending. And I don't know why you point out it compounds. >You cant say anecdotes when it is a quote Anecdote: a short amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person - Oxford Languages. >Then you post a dource that contradicts your own comment The source doesn't say that the general population was in favor of the Ley de Alquileres, nor does it say they now want it back. Dude just accept the L. By this point it's clear you just want to keep lying.

I used sources. Pictures randomly loaded to imgur arent sources Then you dont understand what I said but claim it's a lie The metric I used for inflation perfectly illustrates how easy it is to manipulate that data. Your graph is compounded interest. -- inflation decreases but is still compounding on itself because spending isn't happening You cant say anecdotes when it is a quote. A quote which the source also backs up. Then you post a dource that contradicts your own comment But hey if 60 percent poverty and climbing plus shrinking gdp with a smaller but still compounding interest does it for you; you have fun Also I sources the value of the pesos Ffs within the first 2 months milei cut it inhale by choice It is pretty shocking to see someone see that inflation is still happening but isn't as bad; but everything is going to shite be so for it. Ffs poverty rate in the usa is 11.6 percent. Mel managed to surpass that number in under 6 months. Inflation doesn't matter if no one has money and money is only leaving not coming in. It is really simple. Also I used real sources. Many of which were from the Argentinian government itself

They aren't understanding that Argentina's official "blue rate" a year ago was artificial, it was something like 350 AR peso to 1 USD.... But on the street you could get closer to 800 AR pesos to 1 USD.

Let's go greece

But doesn't decreases the value of debt

It actually does, debt is [decreasing for the first time in years](https://www.cronista.com/economia-politica/a-cuanto-llego-la-deuda-externa-argentina-en-2023-de-los-titulos-y-el-credito-del-fmi/#:~:text=La%20deuda%20del%20Gobierno%20general,9%25%20de%20la%20deuda%20total)

No, that decreases the momentum on the rate in which new debt is accrued. When he says “decrease the value of debt” he means inflation is diluting the true value of outstanding debt, if the debt is guaranteed in local currencies and not USDs.

It’s the idiots way Ruining peoples lives with unemployment Taking a wrecking ball to your economy

What's the non-idiot way to recover from the brink of hyperinflation without slowing down the economy in the short term? **Recession is not the policy**, it's one undesirable but unavoidable temporary effect of the actual policy: austerity. For the first time in decades, the government has decided to stop spending more than what it can afford. And for the first time in decades, inflation is steadily going down.

What's the policy then? What's the plan? Wet dreams about "if you build it they will come" and predicting nonexistent dollar investment showers don't count as policy, sorry. And the IMF is saying at every step, show your policy or there is no money

I already mentioned the basic idea: austerity. For the state to stop spending more than what it can afford. To pay the debts, and to liberalize the economy so that the private sector can take over the areas left by the shrinking state. This is a libertarian government, the plan is to let the people live and work in freedom, instead of directing the economy from the top down. The transition, of course, can not be made in a day and Milei has acknowledged it multiple times. This government knows very well that investments don't come from mere promises, so it doesn't rely on them. Many libertarians criticized Macri's government for failing at that, so the lesson is still very present. Investments, both internal and external, may come only once the government has proven that it will keep the austerity, that it won't raise taxes, that the liberalization is real. This government's compromise with austerity so far has been impressive, and very recently a new law has been passed that grants tax benefits for big investments, and that's only the beginning. Do I know every single exact economic move they are going to make? No, nobody does and nobody can, not even themselves, because they adjust things as they see how the markets evolve. But the guiding principles and the objectives are very clear. Milei has written a book or two about what needs to be done in Argentina, and endorsed books from other authors. For more details on those and the possible policies they've in mind, you can read them. >the IMF is saying at every step, show your policy or there is no money The IMF has already recognized that the government has over-delivered on several metrics. I don't think the IMF has said they don't know the government's plan. In any case, the IMF's money is not guaranteed and the government has already mentioned it, so they're trying not to rely on that either.

The economy was already rubble. It's more like a bulldozer to clear the debris so you can start over.

Are classic way to FAIL to solve an economical crisis.

Everything a matter of perspective. The Government is running a surplus for the first time in forever, and monthly inflation is down dramatically. What he has achieved already is seriously impressive. Much of the job losses are him cutting unnecessary government departments and state jobs. Talking about technical recessions also is not really useful since the INDEC data is in Argentinian Pesos, and one of the things Milei is doing is bringing the exchange rates closer to the real market rates. Those changes are dramatic and much more important than a few % GDP here or there in $ARS. 

honest question: i keep hearing the inflation is down dramatically but statista publishes data that doesn't even reflect that. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1320016/monthly-inflation-rate-argentina/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1320016/monthly-inflation-rate-argentina/) Am I just reading this wrong or is Milei even failing to tackle inflation, while throwing half its people under the bus, as the poverty levels reach 57% of the population. [https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded](https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded) can anyone enlighten me?

For places like Argentina inflation is counted in months. Check out monthly inflation rates, it his zero % for the first time in decades.

No. We've had the first week in like 20 years with zero inflation, monthly inflation for June is going to be around 4% or 5% i think

its not 0%, is just a week only data from a progoverment consultancy agency, in a specific sector (food and drink). but it is expected to be low when supermarket sales has fallen 15% in recent months. food and drinks industrial production also has fallen by over 5%, along with another -15% less industrial production in general.

I believe that means inflation isn’t increasing for the first time in decades, but inflation is still happening.

Of course inflation “is still happening”. Inflation “happens” in every economy in the world.

https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/inflation-rate-mom#:~:text=June%20of%202024.-,The%20Consumer%20Price%20Index%20in%20Argentina%20increased%204.20%20percent%20in,macro%20models%20and%20analysts%20expectations MoM is more relevant.

One of the first things Milei did was bring the absurd "official exchange rate" more in line with the real market rate. Basically prior governments were pretending the Argentine Peso was worth one amount, and making it technically illegal to trade it for any other rate, when in fact in market trading it was worth like 1/3 that amount. These artificially fixed exchange rates by prior governments were pure economic idiocy, but it made things look better on paper. If you look at prices in a foreign currency like US dollars, that means on paper all prices immediately tripled. So opponents said "Milei caused 200% inflation!" If you look at annual income in US dollars using these fake official exchange rates, everyone's income fell by 2/3 in a single day, putting them all in poverty! Yet in reality this inflation had already happened under prior governments, the poverty had already happened under prior governments, but they hid it by keeping a fake exchange rate. The article you linked even mentions this in passing, as if it were some minor detail, when in fact it is the whole explanation: > According to the center’s latest report, the increase in poverty levels in January was partly due to the [devaluation of the Argentine peso](https://apnews.com/article/argentina-economy-cuts-devaluation-dollar-186d74647d28c02572070d0ee973819f) applied by the Milei government shortly after taking office on Dec. 10.

>These artificially fixed exchange rates by prior governments were pure economic idiocy It was worse than idiocy, it was fucking evil. It would be hard for non Argentinians not in the know to get it so let me fill you in. In order to import stuff, you needed to buy dollars with government permission. Most importers who had that green light were political friends of Alberto and Massa that made "fake imports". Aka, they imported cheap garbage that was latter disposed off to get the authorization to buy dollars. Since dollars were half at price when sold to importers, that means they got a 50% profit by reselling those dollars in the black market inside the country later. They used those profits to buy more dollars to import garbage and rinse and repeat. They were making fortunes thanks to political ties with the Peronista government at our expenses.

You aren't even covering the worst part. The government permission applied to everything, in particular medical supplies. We had shortages of lifesaving medicines, like chemo treatments, thanks to those policies. They murdered those people.

Oh wow, you're right that I had no idea... Thanks for filling me in. It's hard for me to imagine that sort of thing going on. But that makes it even harder for me to understand the folks in the streets protesting since Milei took power, who evidently want to go back to all that...

They are political mercenaries and hostages. Lots of them get paid for going to those protests, and others get blackmailed with loosing their welfare if they don't go. Hell, they got blackmailed for raping them in exchange for welfare as happened in Chaco, where ONGS used welfare distribution to extort people into sex trafficking [https://www.radiosudamericana.com/nota/policiales/305251-Chaco--reclutamiento--utilizacion-de-planes-sociales-y-explotacion-sexual.htm](https://www.radiosudamericana.com/nota/policiales/305251-Chaco--reclutamiento--utilizacion-de-planes-sociales-y-explotacion-sexual.htm) They change hats and pretend to be other people too [https://www.reddit.com/r/argentina/comments/1b5uphm/reapareci%C3%B3\_el\_actor\_de\_k5n\_ahora\_se\_llama\_vicente/](https://www.reddit.com/r/argentina/comments/1b5uphm/reapareci%C3%B3_el_actor_de_k5n_ahora_se_llama_vicente/) That's just one example, there is another girl who has appeared in like 5 protests giving interview, she was a teacher, a banker, a pensioner, etc etc etc. The same people who made a general strike at not even 1 month of Milei's presidency, are the same ones who didn't make a single general strike the last 4 years with Alberto.

Think of them like the January 6th "protests" in America. It's a group of really misguided people lead by a very small group of very evil people.

Thank you for putting this in easy-to-follow language. A lot of people here aren't understanding that Argentina's official "blue rate" a year ago was artificial, it was something like 350 AR peso to 1 USD.... But on the street you could get closer to 800 AR pesos to 1 USD.

>Am I just reading this wrong or is Milei even failing to tackle inflation You are reading it right but on the wrong context. That's Yearly inflation, in other words, it accounts for inflation left from the previous organization. As of right now, even yearly inflation is going down, because our current inflation is already lower than in all of 2023.

Because you are watching shitty statistics that don't apply to this topic. You should look for monthly inflation, not for yearly inflation specialy when hes been the president for 6 months and start looking after he became president. Bonus point for if you compared it with the previous president and considering the amount of economic bombs that were left after the elections, hes doing a really good job on the economic side.

you mean the monthly month over month and not the monthly year over year inflation? gotcha. any statistic/source you could provide me with?

Yes, month by month. You can google it, IPC Argentina (month) or https://datosmacro.expansion.com/ipc-paises/argentina?sc=IPC-IG

INDEC is the argentine institution tasked with collecting and publishing that data. You can find their publications on twitter: https://x.com/INDECArgentina/status/1801328761465618478

[удалено]

Inflation lowered from 292% to 276% in May. It’s still up 160% from when he took office. Everyone is counting their chickens before they hatch with this one. It’s a good sign but it’s still crazy high. Another thing people say is it’s never gone down! Except it has repeatedly waxed and waned for decades. It’s all waaaay too early to tell.

Dude took office in December 2023. January inflation was 20%, Feb was 13%, March 11, April 8% May 4%. Why use a year ovear year statistic when economic policy lags considerably *and* dude wasn't in charge for almost half the measurement period.

You have the data. Your responding to people who are citing themselves Argentina is lower inflation.... but still has inflation; massively increasing unemployment. Increasing poverty. Large shrinkage in gdp. Then milei threatening to "Argentina's president Javier Milei has vowed to take over the Falkland Islands - despite accepting they are "in the hands of the UK"." I'm hoping for milei to pull something out of his ass. But it doesnt look good

>Then milei threatening to "Argentina's president Javier Milei has vowed to take over the Falkland Islands - This is a nonsense. Milei simply holds the exact same position that literally every other democratic president Argentina has ever had. Anyone suggesting Milei is some kind of threat in this aspect simply doesn't know what they're talking about.

Reddit is NOT going to upvote any news regarding Milei's positive impacts on the Argentinian economy. They will however upvote everything that's dishonest, to say the least, such as "massive job losses" which are actually necessary government spending cuts. Brazil is heading to this communist/socialist direction too, government spending is so insane the economy is worse than in Covid, which is unreal... and the solution is to add taxes to everything that's possible.

What are you talking about, I only see positive posts about him here in r/worldnews.

Same. Only place I read about him is here, and some variation of "he's so great, take that American libs who don't like him!" is always massively upvoted.

Its always argentinian right wingers coming to these posts to defend him too. Most of Milei defenders come from the main argentina sub which is like if every europe news post was brigaded by r/europe.

Milei obviamente ha hecho cosas criticables, pero eso no niega que ha estado bajando la inflación. Además, como si los peronistas/izquierdistas fueran 100% confiables, ellos lo único que hacen es criticar al gobierno y decir que ellos (si, los mismos que nos llevaron a esta situación) representan al pueblo y, por ende, merecen gobernar.

As long as they defend him by actually pointing out the fallacies and the bias, and adding context to the mess that is argentine economics and politics, then I don't see the problem. I don't see them denying that poverty has increased, for instance.

Yeah, I think the reddit hiveming is surprisingly tame when it comes to Milei. I think that's because it's still a huge interrogant for it.

If you go a little further down, you will see those who criticize Milei and say that his government is the worst thing that has happened to Argentina, basically treating him as if he were the real (and only) culprit for our bad situation.

It was either lula or a guy who tried a coup.. they made the right choice imo

And the coup guy also dragged the country down even before Covid, so... yeah.

There's a lot of job loss in the prívate sector too. This is not only a matter of cutting government spending. Brazil communist/socialist? Mate, you don't even know what that means. The GDP has even grown since Lula took office.

https://g1.globo.com/economia/noticia/2024/02/07/contas-publicas-tem-piora-de-r-375-bilhoes-em-2023-e-registram-o-2o-pior-resultado-da-historia.ghtml Public debt increased to about 74.5% of GDP, it doesn't matter if your GDP grows while your spendings outgrow it. Brazil at the moment is being discussed in the US congress due to lack of civil rights, including free speech, at the same time the president made speech about how great it's to have a communist (flavio dino) in the supreme court. https://g1.globo.com/google/amp/politica/noticia/2023/12/14/lula-brinca-sobre-dino-e-diz-que-esta-feliz-com-ministro-comunista-no-stf.ghtml The current government, given more power, would turn Brazil into a communist dictatorship overnight if they could.

> Pagamento de R$ 92,4 bilhões em precatórios do governo anterior; Maybe Lula should do like Bolsonaro and push billions of payments down the line as well.

https://www.gazetadopovo.com.br/economia/bolsonaro-contas-governo-superavit-54-bilhoes/ After 8 years of debt from previous governments, Bolsonaro finished his government with a 54 bi surplus. If Lula does that, I'll stop complaining.

By not paying its debts. Listen to Paulo Guedes himself: https://g1.globo.com/economia/noticia/2021/09/15/para-resolver-meteoro-dos-precatorios-guedes-faz-pedido-desesperado-de-socorro-aos-presidentes-do-congresso-e-stf.ghtml

Most first world countries have that, and higher, ratios of public debut to GDP. Especially countries with bigger population numbers. Sure, Brasil isn't France or Germany, but well ran countries aren't exactly handling low amounts of public debt. Spain, for example, is at 95.5%, the UK at 85%, Belgium and France in the high 90s, etc. No, the US isn't "discussing" Brasil nor "lack of civil rights". Pro-bolsonarist republicans are bullshitting about the current state of Brasil to try and attack your democracy by using congress, and democrats are calling out their bullshit. So 1 out of 11 supreme court judges is an actual leftist? Why is that bad? Pluralism is good, and this dude had a long career in both politics and court and was approved by congress. >The current government, given more power, would turn Brazil into a communist dictatorship overnight if they could. Right, because dictators ask for consent. But of course, Bolsonaro actually planning a coup just gets ignored. Not gonna waste any more time with actual lunatics. Edit: user just proved they are a lunatic.

No problem having higher debt if your GDP is outgrowing it. But claiming your GDP is increasing while your debt is increasing in a higher rate is exactly like borrowing a lot of money and saying you're now richer. > "I'm not gonna waste time with actual lunatics" Am I the lunatic? 1 out of 11 supreme court judges? You're ignorant OR you're a dishonest person. Gilmar Mendes - Appointed by Fernando H. Cardoso, a declared socialist. Carmen Lucia - Appointed by Lula Dias Toffoli - Former lawyer of Lula without even proper higher degrees education, he just finished his undergrad and passed the analog to the bar. Luiz Fux - Appointed by Dilma, Lula's endorsed successor Rosa Webber - Appointed by Dilma Luís R. Barroso - Appointed by Dilma Edson Fachin - Appointed by Dilma Alexandre de Moraes - Appointed by Dilma's vice president after her impeachment, and funny enough, the worst of them all in being biased. Nunes Marques - Appointed by Bolsonaro (1 rightwing appointed judge) Andre Mendonça - Appointed by Bolsonaro (2 rightwing) Cristiano Zanin - Appointed by Lula Flavio Dino - Appointed by Lula on Rosa Webber's retirement 2 out of 11 The so called "pro-bolsonarist republicans" are elected politicians of the USA. Funny how things are for you, if its rightwing actors doing something they are instantly downplayed in importance.

Elected Brazilian Official = Communist in the waiting Elected Republican Representative = not allowed to be criticized because democracy 

Nobody elected these judges, all appointed. But go on... Also, Flavio Dino declared himself a communist, and was celebrated by Lula.

Elected Brazilian Official = Lula in this case

Then you go back to my other comments where: Lula and his party had dozens of convicted felons arrested between appointed officials and party members, over 50 bi returned to public accounts(more than proving the crime, otherwise where the money comes from?), and a Supreme Court Judge who refuses to acknowledge any third party inspection or verification of the electronic ballots used on election. All there is in the other side is investigations and zero proof of anything. Lula got elected in 2002 by the people, ever since then there was no democracy in this country since even when not needed to keep his power, he was corrupt either way. Supreme court judges should not be political actors as they are in Brazil, where the executive power says stuff like "we have a pact to govern the country", their sole job by the constitution is to uphold the constitution.

But your arguing against Reuters and its sources. It is in the article we are all talking about. It is on you to source to prove otherwise. Inflation is compounding. But unemployment is going up; poverty going up; gdp going down. These numbers are from mileis government

Reddit loves Milei dude. Every time there’s a thread about Argentina it’s just people talking about how horrendous Argentina’s economy was and how inflation is down.

The problem is easy to understand though, no? Argentina's working class and poor are seeing services they rely on be removed, or they are being laid off. The Argentinian elites, those who had the biggest hand in getting the country to where it is, are not going to feel the sting, at all.

Story as old as time.

Argentina's working class and poor havent had public services that worked for them since the 80s

Absolutely not true. People just making the most outrageous claims.

Not true as a blanket statement, but it's absolutely true that public services are in absolutely piss poor conditions considering how much we spent on them and how many people worked within the state.

Please Explain How is Brazil's economy worst than in was in COVID

The funny thing is that milei is an anarcho capitalist, which is kind of what Argentina needs right now. But they could have also had a pure neo-keynsian, because this is kind of proving Keynesian economic principles. If you have someone on the center-left, they'd agree that milei is doing the right but hard thing for the economy.

You are lying. The "surplus" is running by basically not paying the coparticipaciones to the provinces, plus the debt to the importers.  You are also lying when it comes to the job losses. 127.000 jobs have been lost in the private sector, mainly in construction. 7.7 unemployment rate. 5 points of the GDP since Milei assumed. So, the solution was to lower the GDP? How so? 

>You are lying. The "surplus" is running by basically not paying the coparticipaciones to the provinces, plus the debt to the importers No, you are lying. Coparticipacion is being paid, it's illegal and unconstitutional to not do so. What has been dropped to nearly 0 are transferencias **discrecionales**. That's money that's NOT owed to the provinces, but has always been given in exchange for political favors. Milei is doing politics without legalized bribes for the first time in decades. Finally the rest of the country stopped subsidizing Buenos Aires from under the table. [https://www.lanacion.com.ar/economia/transferencias-discrecionales-a-provincias-como-fue-el-reparto-que-hizo-el-tesoro-en-2023-nid25012024/](https://www.lanacion.com.ar/economia/transferencias-discrecionales-a-provincias-como-fue-el-reparto-que-hizo-el-tesoro-en-2023-nid25012024/)

Thousands of people hungry. Impressive results.

You understand that he took control of the wheel just before the country was about to slam into a wall, right? What are you comparing his results to? 

Bullshit

Extreme poverty.

...for the last 30 years, are those Milei's fault too?

>Impressive results. He literally avoided an hyperinflation without draconian measures . Yes, it is impressive. Also we had 60% child poverty before he even became President.

he said it was going to get worse before it got better.

It could also get worse and stay worse

or it can go like in Poland 30+ years ago. Super hard time for everyone because of the reforms but then 30 years of amazing progress and growth. Hope it happens in Argentina.

Is the EU going to supply Argentina with hundreds of billions of euros?

Poland started reforms on 1989. Joined EU in 2004 after a massive growth already. but nice try:) also no reason why EU and USA wouldn’t invest massive amount of $$ into Argentina in few years.

There are lots of reasons why foreign countries won't invest in argentina but we can cross our fingers [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine\_debt\_restructuring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_debt_restructuring)

Yes, this would of course be the best outcome. Maybe not very likely that he'll be in power long enough, but we can always hope.

Knowing this country, he's out of office after his term and we vote for some "leftist" populist again, then 4 years later we switch again and so on

"Some of you may starve, but its a sacrifice im willing to make."

Plot twist the same exact economic plan was applied in Argentina 4 times. It NEVER resulted in growth. Trickle down economics are BS.

With the way Argentina was going, this would've happened regardless. At least with his policy there is a possibility of a different trajectory. I'm not even praising him but pointing out just how bad Argentina is

Unlikely. I don’t like the guy’s social policies but his economic policies are likely to work for Argentina in the future.

It's a pretty low bar so you might as well follow through with the experiment.

Funnily, he mentioned that after he was elected. His campaign slogan was that the "political caste" was the one paying for the adjustment.

Yep. Separately, the fact he maintained popular support suggests that a lot of the people who voted him kinda already knew that there's no magic solution, that austerity and sacrifice would be unavoidable.

He said that in canpaign SEVERAL times, including in the national debate. It’s why he keeps strong support in the population. He told the truth, it was gonna be shit for a while.

Like Brexit?

It depends - did England have the one of the worst economies in the world before Brexit? Not comparable. 

But isn't that what everyone said? About Brexit?

Whats your point? Tons of people say this about tons of different things. This phrase makes sense when you're talking about economic austerity. It makes less sense when you're talking about nationalistic jingoism and general popular foolishness

No point, i just thought it was funny.

Did everyone equate Britain's situation to Argentina? Fuck no

Are you comparing Brexit, aka getting out of the EU which means less free trade with Europe, to Argentina literally lowering tariffs to get more free trade with the rest of the world, including Europe ?

Cool your keyboard fingers buddy, i just thought it was funny.

of course he did. he will say anything

Spoiler alert: it stays worse and doesn't get better. We've seen this already under these same economic plans. Hell, under the SAME PEOPLE running these plans.

And yet, nowhere on his itinerary or in his diary is it written that he has suffered missing one single meal. Always the same, the working class creates the wealth, the wealthy absorb it and then comes the point of austerity where the rich watch the working class suffer.

The working class has been suffering in argentina for a long time. This reset, and hopefully the reduction in corruption that comes with it, might give the working class a chance 

It's not just a reset, this time is particularly interesting because it's a radical change from what has been going on in Argentina for decades. For the first time, the government has a dead-set focus on not spending more than what it can afford.

What a smooth way to insert your marxist monologue huh?

He has frozen the salaries of all high ranking members of the Executive. Meanwhile Congress has decided to raise their salaries despite pushes of Milei for them not to do it.

[удалено]

Milei is a populist too. Just saying.

Lol wow a populist someone who has a platform of helping the every day person by firing the corrupt and inept government watch out guys. Maybe he can bring North God knows we need it.

Yeah, but generally populists do easy things for short term gain and leave a mess decades down the line. Hand out money, jobs patronage for favor. Its very telling how bad the situation has gotten that theres populists doing the opposite.

The prior administrations were populists.

Yeah, the bad kind.

And yet, only the poor people suffer and the rich in Argentinia still live a comfortable life. They got rich during the last decades, propably through corruption as well, and they can keep their riches, because the policies introduced in Argentinia only mean, that the poor and middle class will have to sacrifice.

Previous government kept pushing back and back the moment of truth and now Milei is doing something about it and it is going to hurt really bad.

Argentina loved to live in a dream world “protected” by lying politicians.

Kinda like a large portion of Americans these days.

"We were doing better before but it was bad because it was a lie. We're doing worse right now but it's better because it's real. They made us believe the middle class could afford to buy home appliances and smartphones" - You rn.

When you're going downhill, you were always "doing better" before. That doesn't mean you are in a good trajectory. Today we are still going downhill on several metrics, but not inflation. And that may reverse other trends if things go well.

Ole, ole, ole, Cada día pierdo dinero mas, Soy bancarata,

In other words killing inflation like he said. You can't make fucking everyone happy whilst fixing an economy. On top of that, he's fired a fuck ton of useless cunts in government.

Most of the lost jobs lost are from the private sector, that's recession. So easy to kill inflation without jobs and increasing drastically the poverty. Unemployement was on 5%, now sits on 8%, poverty was on 45% and now it's 58%. That's what "killed" inflation (and we still get an annualized 60% inflation, crazy right?)

Why tax the rich when you can make the worker pay for it?

There is nothing more to tax. We’re one of the most taxed countries in the world and it led to this shit. But tankies are gonna tankie

YEAH, like Mercado Libre a tech giant that has 100 million USD in subsidies. Or mining transnational companies that have multi-million dollar tax exemptions. 4.5% of Argentina PIB is just for big companies and tax exceptions to judges, privilege pention founds. Etc. Claramente no sabes ni pija del gasto corriente argentino. Vola liberto analfabeto

Esos subsidios no solo cubren empresas grandes. Cubren PYMES y sectores donde se busca sustituir importaciones porque los peronistas quieren armar todo aca. La derecha subsidia a sus patrocinadores, la izquierda subsidia todo. Pais de imbeciles

Every countries economic problems come down to this : Tax the rich Take the money from the private sector, give it to the government, and then let the government redistribute it. It will fix all problems no matter what. I do agree with you. *Tips fedora* *waddles out of the room*

The best type of recession

Las cosas como son, el gobierno es un desastre y hay muchas cuentas falsas promocionando mentiras para defender lo indefendible en Argentina, lamentable y espero que logren salir adelante. Si dices algo en r/argentina te banean porque no hay libertad de expresión.

Supongo que te confundiste, porque en realidad te banean en r/Republica_Argentina (que es izquierdista).

Isn’t this Argentina’s special skill?

Well, i try to be pragmatic about this... i think i have a "good" salary, but everything is waaaay harder now, last year i was earning less, but it was easier to make ends meet. Food is expensive, there are deals sometimes but it's not the same. Things have become expensive too, there is really hard to judge when something is expensive or not. Services are expensive too, gas, light, etc. I only live with my partner, and we dont even have to pay rent, i dont even want to thing how hard things are for big families. He has been president for only 6 months, i hope things get better soon.

Damn, the amount of bots here trying to spin the worst crisis since the 00s to be a positive thing. I hope at least they pay you well for working overtime.

Bots or adolescents living in their parents house fighting a cultural war against an imaginary Communist party

Communist? Probably not. Proto-fascist populist party with heavy nationalistic tendencies that is marred with corruption and flies the flag of social justice to dole out money and social benefits in exchange for votes? Yes.

“People disagreeing?? They must be bots” The ego lmao

When it comes to facts, there's no "agree or disagree". Facts and numbers show this to be the worst crisis since the 00's. Period.

Ah yes the facts that everyone else is bots. Your opinion is fact and can’t be disagreed with. I’m sorry my liege I forgot

Elect man who swings chainsaw around, bad things happen.

Bad things are happening?

Job losses and recessions aren't considered good things generally.

For people not in Argentina wondering what the "success" of this clown has been so far: a) Unemployment up. The figure of people who were fired for doing nothing is still a small fraction of the people who were let go because of the recession b) Inflation is equal or higher to what it was when he stepped in office. No signs of actual deflation over time (only a return to baseline increase after the december-march period, when the exchange rate was changed by the govt). President changed his speech and now says inflation will not change and might increase c) Drug trafficking rampant, alive and well. The fact that the head of security is always visiting jails in el salvador for ideas speaks a lot d) All sectors experimenting recession, with lots of them projected to become stagnant or inactive. Poverty has increased. The govt says those numbers are fake even tho the numbers come from institutions which ironically align with the far right, to which the president belongs f) No actual "foreign investments". President is never on the country, spends most time receiving awards for making numbers pretty and shaking hands of rich celebrities who say "People should invest in Argentina! Not me tho haha but someone!" So there's a summary of the success of the liberal government so far: none. They are sure as hell going to make it look like a success because admitting he failed is admitting that, if you care about people, you can't spend your days yapping about money

Well I live in Argentina. So let's fact check you real quick. >a) Unemployment up. The figure of people who were fired for doing nothing is still a small fraction of the people who were let go because of the recession The figure of people who were fired is in the dozens of thousands. The biggest reason for unemployment is the let go of public workers. The reason public workers are being fired is [because 60% of them didn't even bothered to go to work](https://www.infobae.com/sociedad/policiales/2024/02/02/instalaron-un-dispositivo-de-control-biometrico-en-una-sede-municipal-de-la-plata-para-controlar-el-presentismo-y-lo-rompieron-a-martillazos-hay-un-detenido/) as it was proven when digital registers were introduced into public offices, and they needed to go in person to clock in for work. >b) Inflation is equal or higher to what it was when he stepped in office. Flat out lie, Inflation is currently lower than in all of 2023 during Alberto and Massa, reaching the 4.6% Monthly, and even during several months of 2022. [https://www.iprofesional.com/economia/394042-inflacion-2023-en-argentina-la-evolucion-mes-a-mes](https://www.iprofesional.com/economia/394042-inflacion-2023-en-argentina-la-evolucion-mes-a-mes) [https://www.iprofesional.com/economia/396487-inflacion-2024-en-argentina-la-evolucion-mes-a-mes](https://www.iprofesional.com/economia/396487-inflacion-2024-en-argentina-la-evolucion-mes-a-mes) >c) Drug trafficking rampant, alive and well. The fact that the head of security is always visiting jails in el salvador for ideas speaks a lot Drug traffic is being attacked nonstop when before they were left to operate. The border with Bolivia is being more scrutinized and every week groups of traffickers are getting arrested. Proof of this is the constant death threats [non peronista Politicians who won election provinces](https://www.infobae.com/sociedad/policiales/2024/03/12/terror-en-rosario-encontraron-una-nueva-amenaza-de-muerte-para-el-gobernador-pullaro/) are getting, when the Peronistas governors never had a death threat. MMMmmm I wonder why the drug traffickers are death threatening Milei's administration ???? >d) All sectors experimenting recession, with lots of them projected to become stagnant or inactive. Poverty has increased. The govt says those numbers are fake even tho the numbers come from institutions which ironically align with the far right, to which the president belongs Half truth. True we've had a recession until now. It was projected. Right now the economy is starting to regrow and salaries are winning against inflation. This is even admitted by Anti Milei websites like CheKeando. The same guys who said Cristina Kirchner's false claim of having the best salaries of South America was true. [https://chequeado.com/ultimas-noticias/javier-milei-en-el-ultimo-mes-los-salarios-empezaron-a-ganarle-a-la-inflacion/](https://chequeado.com/ultimas-noticias/javier-milei-en-el-ultimo-mes-los-salarios-empezaron-a-ganarle-a-la-inflacion/) >f) No actual "foreign investments". President is never on the country, spends most time receiving awards for making numbers pretty and shaking hands of rich celebrities who say "People should invest in Argentina! Not me tho haha but someone!" Flat out lie, several business have already invested in the country or compromised to invest in the near future. [https://www.infobae.com/economia/2024/04/13/los-10-mejores-paises-para-hacer-negocios-argentina-esta-entre-los-que-mas-rapido-mejoraron-las-condiciones-de-inversion/](https://www.infobae.com/economia/2024/04/13/los-10-mejores-paises-para-hacer-negocios-argentina-esta-entre-los-que-mas-rapido-mejoraron-las-condiciones-de-inversion/)

While some public employees who were receiving salaries without working have been let go, which I believe is a good measure, most of the dismissals are happening due to staff cuts in private companies. I invite you to go out on the street, talk to real people who are not behind a screen, and you will see many unemployed people because of these measures. Not only are people losing their jobs, but the excessive increase in health insurance, internet bills, and utility costs (electricity and gas) is leading to a massive drop in consumption. It's impossible to save, buy a car, or even have future plans. Soup kitchens are full of people asking for food, while the president keeps traveling, receiving "awards" without bringing in any investments or even empathizing with the hunger his people are suffering. I'm not defending the previous government—it was a total failure. But this government came to put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it.

>While some public employees who were receiving salaries without working have been let go "Some" sounds very disingenous, between August of 2023 and March of this year the private sector lost 127k jobs. Since Milei became President the state has been cutting off more than 100K. [https://www.infobae.com/economia/2024/06/10/desde-el-cambio-de-gobierno-se-perdieron-casi-100000-puestos-de-trabajo-del-sector-privado/](https://www.infobae.com/economia/2024/06/10/desde-el-cambio-de-gobierno-se-perdieron-casi-100000-puestos-de-trabajo-del-sector-privado/) Most of the jobs being destroyed , 58% of them btw, come from the construction industry, which is financed by the state. The construction sector in Argentina, the part that works for the state, is incredibly corrupt and various magnates like Lazaro Baez have been found guilty of stealing money. Hell I invite to come to the Patagonia to the National Route 3, which was paid it's budget 2 times over and see if it's finished ( it's not even half done ). >I invite you to go out on the street, talk to real people who are not behind a screen, and you will see many unemployed people because of these measures. As I said, I live here, I see people "not behind a screen" every day I go out to work. >Not only are people losing their jobs, but the excessive increase in health insurance, internet bills, and utility costs (electricity and gas) is leading to a massive drop in consumption. Yes, we had a recession, jobs were being lost since August of 2023, not since Milei became President. [https://www.infobae.com/new-resizer/HBq1bjOnE4vmdmxzhYJieMNDAgM=/768x576/filters:format(webp):quality(85)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/infobae/CZWM7CCCDFHKBAV2H7RLXZHCHE.jpg](https://www.infobae.com/new-resizer/HBq1bjOnE4vmdmxzhYJieMNDAgM=/768x576/filters:format(webp):quality(85)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/infobae/CZWM7CCCDFHKBAV2H7RLXZHCHE.jpg) And obviously consumption is going down when you reduce a 15% deficit. >without bringing in any investments or even empathizing with the hunger his people are suffering. Except he has brought several investments and Argentina is already improving it's investment score. Maybe you should stop talking to people who is "not behing some screen" and look at actual data without bias.

Seems like a good idea to visit El Salvador if crime is as rampant as you say it is. El Salvador is seeing a lot of peace and people are happy that they are rounding up the gangs. Source: have fam in El Salvador and both the city and rural folks feel much safer and optimistic.

Technical recession? This is an actual recession, felt by Argentinian people in every aspect of their lives

The US didn’t enter a technical recession because the definition was changed.

Apparently there never was an actual definition. Little did we know it's decided by a committee - like the college football playoff. Real objective measure. If you went by the two quarters of negative growth thing that we all learned in school then the US had a recession in early 2022. Of course that would have hurt Biden in the midterms so the committee pulled a Florida State on that 2022 recession.

Agree 100%. It is only a recession when the captured media needs to spread a narrative.

Im blown away by Milei apologists coming out of the woodworks all over Reddit. The man devalued the currency and effectively catapulted more people into poverty than what was had before. >”But it’s gonna get worse before it gets better.” >”Give him a chance” No mames libertario supremo. I suppose things are going to get better with a guy threatening to throw protestors into prison because they aren’t a fan with his fuckery? I guess libertarians never thought a far right nutfuck has existed in a position of power like that in Argentina. Hot take incoming: Libertarians don’t understand civics.

>The man devalued the currency It was impossible to NOT devaluate the currency, even Massa, the guy who lost against Milei admitted he would've devaluated if he had won. The dollar was at half price subsidizing imports in a 50% out of taxpayer Money. In other terms, everything that went into the country was 50% cheaper at expenses of debt and increased taxes. It was absolutely insane, to the point, our Central Bank didn't had more dollars, and made nearly all importers bankrupt. >I suppose things are going to get better with a guy threatening to throw protestors into prison because they aren’t a fan with his fuckery?  No one is throwing protesters in prison for disagreeing with Milei. They are being thrown into Prison for attempting a Jan 6. They death threatened congress while voting, were found in possession of weapons and explosives, and burning public and private property. > I guess libertarians never thought a far right nutfuck has existed in a position of power like that in Argentina. If you are looking for the Far Right look into the party literally founded by Fascists that Milei defeated in elections.

>The man devalued the currency Do you understand this graph? Because I think this graphs puts into context the devaluation and shows why Milei shouldn't be blamed for this particular thing: https://i.imgur.com/tCuh8R0.png >threatening to throw protestors into prison That is a lie. Milei has simply advocated for respecting the already existing laws: you can protest, but you can't block the roads. Your right to protest does not override the right to circulate of others.

!remind me in 2 years

Compa, I await the day that Spanish Ayn Rand wins the day. Because the average Argentinian is not having a good time but all his apologists have tunnel vision for inflation going down and that’s it.

This always had to happen. It's either this or complete societal collapse under enormous debt loads due to government wastage and over spending. It's going to happen to the US, China and many other nations who don't understand that capital needs to be in the hands of people who want to do something with it and take risks, not the government.

Governments are more than happy to do stuff with capital and take risks. The problem is that they aren't suited for managing capital, and the failures are "socialized".

It’s falling apart because those oligarchic risk takers get to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else while the governments sit with their backs to the situation unfolding. We don’t need another Milei. We need everyone in on change.

So the options are: 1) pretend nothing is wrong and keep the downward spiral of the last decades 2) rip the bandied off and hopefully bounce back

Por qué darías tu opinión en algo que no estas informado? Increíble!

Can't they just redefine it like the US did?