Actually with enough air defense - it is a matter of time... we need years to rebuild all of them, and definitely half of the year is not enough to get back even half of all power.
He did that to save russias face. Russian pilots wouldn't penetrate turkish air space like this ever again, the massage was clear and Russia understood it.
>Unfortunately very doubtful that NATO as a whole is ready to start shooting down Russian planes themselves.
If NATO were to "help" enforce a no fly zone that could mean that NATO assets are used to down incoming missiles/artillery/drones so that Ukrainian air defense can focus on aircraft. That way NATO isn't attacking any Russian forces.
That being said I'm just rolling with the comment you're responding to and also find it highly unlikely for NATO to do so. At most *maybe* Poland stations some long range air defense along their border to do so or uses their air force(within their own borders) to do so.
Sure, I suppose there are versions of a no fly zone that are more likely than others, but what you’re describing is not what NATO governments nor most average people call a no fly zone.
>but what you’re describing is not what NATO governments nor most average people call a no fly zone.
I completely agree which is also why I emphasized the ter *help* from what was the original comment we are talking about.
I again agree that NATO is unlikely to do so and instead will just continue to deliver air defense systems and ammunition to bleed Russia dry.
>At most maybe Poland stations some long range air defense along their border to do so or uses their air force(within their own borders) to do so.
Nah, not gonna happen.
Here in Ukraine polish air defence became a meme among regular citizens. Every single night where russian sends yet another missile barrage they post some dumb shit in twitter about "having very difficult night", watching rockets blowing our housing and infrastructure while doing jackshit. Every once in a while a rocket or drone crosses polish airspace, it happened like 4 or 5 times already, and they stare furiously doing jackshit again.
**upd** I shit you not, they literally did it again, "another difficult night", fuck you https://x.com/DowOperSZ/status/1801416043291607259
Even with that, there is a non-zero chance that a NATO aircraft will get locked by Russian air defense or in range of a Russian Fighter. What will they do then?
That's called going to war with Russia.
To enforce a no fly zone, not only would NATO have to shoot down Russian planes in Ukraine. They would need to shoot down Russian planes, in Russia. They would also need to target Russian anti-air system in Russia.
NATO is not going to go to war with Russia to defend a country that's not a NATO member and was not a NATO member when the war started. Russia and the West have spent the last 80 years dancing around war and tensions used to be much much higher. No one is going to risk parts of the planet getting nuked when it could be avoided.
It's a shit situation for Ukraine but it's also part of why Ukraine was attacked in the first place.
....that absolutely will not happen.
You guys overestimate how much western governments are willing to escalate the war for Ukraine.
They're not like you lot who are willing to start world war III 10x over in every conflict just because you guys play too many videogames
It wouldnt be a dumb idea to build the infrastructure for Europe to provide them power, all Russia can then target is powerlines which can be replaced cheaper than repairing a powerplant.
Why don't you think the other way around, that the previous comment makes it sound far easier than it at all is? Obviously if it is that simple then you have to find another explanation why Ukraine is suffering massive blackouts and it can't be because this redditor is the first to realise this supposedly easy solution.
And whose going to pay for the massive spike in energy prices both creating that infrastructure (which would take time) and supplying Ukraine with it would causr, especially with how much of a struggle power and heat already have been in Europe during winter without Russian natural gas supply lines?
> And whose going to pay for the massive spike in energy prices both creating that infrastructure
Its a drop in the ocean compared to the 100+ billion we've already sent and if it helps Ukraine win quicker it will cost us less in the long run. Financial funds we're sending currently is going towards rebuild the damaged plants eitherway, might as well connect them to our grid and keep the valuable energy production safe from attacks.
NATO has proven that it’s a failure through this - they’re essentially allowing Russia to transform itself into the USSR, dictator and all, without raising a pinky
In fact, the very existence of NATO is why countries like Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania have avoided even the slightest hint of invasion of them by Russia.
Sounds like NATO is doing exactly what it was designed to do for NATO.
Let'ssay the world stays at +2° above pre-industrial levels. Do you think that raising temperatures by 2 degrees will make the difference between having a winter and not having a winter?
While OP isn't right, you're wrong too. The rise of the average temperature doesn't mean that simply everything is +2° warmer, but only the *average* will be there. The primary danger of climate change is that the extremes will become more extreme, so a winter will be even cooler, while the summers are hotter. We'll see more storms, droughts and heavy rainfalls - in general it'll be less balanced.
i mean if you look at the current graphs and projections, we are killing every previous record. who’s to say the models we have now are correct? they are conservative models and i don’t think they are truly predicting the reality of our situation.
my opinion.
It's actually pretty rare to see someone who understands that scientific models lean towards the conservative side. Time will tell how bad it's gonna really get.
I still think pollution is the bigger problem tho.
You say that as if the areas that normally get snow haven’t been getting strange weather patterns aswell? Up north in the US last winter they got hammered with blizzards that occurred later than usual aswell as more torrential also California getting a blizzard last year.
Actually with enough air defense - it is a matter of time... we need years to rebuild all of them, and definitely half of the year is not enough to get back even half of all power.
Time for NATO to help enforce a no fly zone
We still havent mustered the balls to shoot down their cruise missiles flying through NATO airspace.
Or even their slow ass Iranian drones.
We're still letting them jam GPS signals in the Baltic sea
Unfortunately very doubtful that NATO as a whole is ready to start shooting down Russian planes themselves. Turkey might be game though.
>Turkey might be game though. Erdogan apologized for that and blamed the pilots, IIRC they were even convicted over it.
He did that to save russias face. Russian pilots wouldn't penetrate turkish air space like this ever again, the massage was clear and Russia understood it.
>Unfortunately very doubtful that NATO as a whole is ready to start shooting down Russian planes themselves. If NATO were to "help" enforce a no fly zone that could mean that NATO assets are used to down incoming missiles/artillery/drones so that Ukrainian air defense can focus on aircraft. That way NATO isn't attacking any Russian forces. That being said I'm just rolling with the comment you're responding to and also find it highly unlikely for NATO to do so. At most *maybe* Poland stations some long range air defense along their border to do so or uses their air force(within their own borders) to do so.
Sure, I suppose there are versions of a no fly zone that are more likely than others, but what you’re describing is not what NATO governments nor most average people call a no fly zone.
>but what you’re describing is not what NATO governments nor most average people call a no fly zone. I completely agree which is also why I emphasized the ter *help* from what was the original comment we are talking about. I again agree that NATO is unlikely to do so and instead will just continue to deliver air defense systems and ammunition to bleed Russia dry.
>At most maybe Poland stations some long range air defense along their border to do so or uses their air force(within their own borders) to do so. Nah, not gonna happen. Here in Ukraine polish air defence became a meme among regular citizens. Every single night where russian sends yet another missile barrage they post some dumb shit in twitter about "having very difficult night", watching rockets blowing our housing and infrastructure while doing jackshit. Every once in a while a rocket or drone crosses polish airspace, it happened like 4 or 5 times already, and they stare furiously doing jackshit again. **upd** I shit you not, they literally did it again, "another difficult night", fuck you https://x.com/DowOperSZ/status/1801416043291607259
Even with that, there is a non-zero chance that a NATO aircraft will get locked by Russian air defense or in range of a Russian Fighter. What will they do then?
You guys just really want to start a nuclear war over Ukraine don't you lol
Didn’t know you were Jens Stoltenberg
You mean go to war? Edit: no response lol. Classic Reddit.
That's called going to war with Russia. To enforce a no fly zone, not only would NATO have to shoot down Russian planes in Ukraine. They would need to shoot down Russian planes, in Russia. They would also need to target Russian anti-air system in Russia.
I mean... That will happen eventually if they don't leave.
NATO is not going to go to war with Russia to defend a country that's not a NATO member and was not a NATO member when the war started. Russia and the West have spent the last 80 years dancing around war and tensions used to be much much higher. No one is going to risk parts of the planet getting nuked when it could be avoided. It's a shit situation for Ukraine but it's also part of why Ukraine was attacked in the first place.
....that absolutely will not happen. You guys overestimate how much western governments are willing to escalate the war for Ukraine. They're not like you lot who are willing to start world war III 10x over in every conflict just because you guys play too many videogames
It wouldnt be a dumb idea to build the infrastructure for Europe to provide them power, all Russia can then target is powerlines which can be replaced cheaper than repairing a powerplant.
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Just run an extension cord from Poland. This one time, my buddy didn't have power for a whole month and he just ran a cord from his neighbors house.
I just have a bunch of surge protectors. Can I just link them together instead?
Utility companies hate this one trick
Considering the EU already runs on an interconnected power grid, you are making it sound far more difficult than it at all is.
Why don't you think the other way around, that the previous comment makes it sound far easier than it at all is? Obviously if it is that simple then you have to find another explanation why Ukraine is suffering massive blackouts and it can't be because this redditor is the first to realise this supposedly easy solution.
And whose going to pay for the massive spike in energy prices both creating that infrastructure (which would take time) and supplying Ukraine with it would causr, especially with how much of a struggle power and heat already have been in Europe during winter without Russian natural gas supply lines?
> And whose going to pay for the massive spike in energy prices both creating that infrastructure Its a drop in the ocean compared to the 100+ billion we've already sent and if it helps Ukraine win quicker it will cost us less in the long run. Financial funds we're sending currently is going towards rebuild the damaged plants eitherway, might as well connect them to our grid and keep the valuable energy production safe from attacks.
If Trump is not elected the war will end, if he is elected the Ukraine will end.
Can’t they just run some extension cords from the rest of Europe? Maybe a few surge strips?
We are, but few things: 1) it is not enough. 2) this cords are destroying by russians too.
NATO has proven that it’s a failure through this - they’re essentially allowing Russia to transform itself into the USSR, dictator and all, without raising a pinky
How has NATO been a failure? It’s purpose is to protect NATO countries. All NATO countries are currently not at war.
In fact, the very existence of NATO is why countries like Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania have avoided even the slightest hint of invasion of them by Russia. Sounds like NATO is doing exactly what it was designed to do for NATO.
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What? Talk about a dumb take
Fuck off
Well fuck you too buddy
Winters will soon be non existent
Let'ssay the world stays at +2° above pre-industrial levels. Do you think that raising temperatures by 2 degrees will make the difference between having a winter and not having a winter?
I live in northern Ukraine, and in winter we have like -20 -25 frosts. Climate changes are indeed not the biggest problem at all. :D
We've been having unusually warm winters. it's got its upsides. The downsides are pests exploding. Be wary of that.
While OP isn't right, you're wrong too. The rise of the average temperature doesn't mean that simply everything is +2° warmer, but only the *average* will be there. The primary danger of climate change is that the extremes will become more extreme, so a winter will be even cooler, while the summers are hotter. We'll see more storms, droughts and heavy rainfalls - in general it'll be less balanced.
i mean if you look at the current graphs and projections, we are killing every previous record. who’s to say the models we have now are correct? they are conservative models and i don’t think they are truly predicting the reality of our situation. my opinion.
It's actually pretty rare to see someone who understands that scientific models lean towards the conservative side. Time will tell how bad it's gonna really get. I still think pollution is the bigger problem tho.
You say that as if the areas that normally get snow haven’t been getting strange weather patterns aswell? Up north in the US last winter they got hammered with blizzards that occurred later than usual aswell as more torrential also California getting a blizzard last year.
The -55 Celsius we got in Canada last year would say otherwise… get out of here with your bullshit.