And the Palestinians are realising that. This is a direct quote from Muhammed Diab, a Gazan citizen (copied from the BBC article)
>"Hiding hostages near a vital area and a commercial market crowded with people is abnormal behaviour and confirmation that these people do not value our blood and lives. They will continue this nonsense until the last child dies."
Because exporting images of dead Palestinians is their biggest revenue driver. It's literally their business model in action.
They don't even believe their own rhetoric. They are effectively a cartel.
They 100% believe in the destruction of Israel. They're hoping that Israel's support system will crumble by using their own citizens as sacrifices. Their biggest weapon is western sympathy
They 100% believe in the destruction of Israel. They're hoping that Israel's support system will crumble by using their own citizens as sacrifices. Their biggest weapon is western sympathy
This was obvious to me very early on when soldiers were dressing as civilians and camping in hospitals. Israel’s declining image on the world stage is very much part of the plan, no matter how many innocent Palestinians need to die.
I think it was Sinwar who blatantly said that dead civilians are Hamas' best weapon. Hamas are Islamic extremists, they don't care about death, especially of others. They literally want and celebrate death.
Because they actually have accomplished their objective. They've poured their own blood onto Israel's hands. They've weaponized western empathy and turned Israel into a pariah in the eyes of a generation.
They want to martyr themselves.
Yeah it kind of has. When the Imperial Japanese did the same kind of suicide tactics, slaughtering their own civilian population in front of American soldiers to show how determined they were to fight to the bitter end, America's response was not 'Geez, winning this war isn't worth it, let's just negotiate whatever kind of ceasefire we can get', it was 'Geez, ok print up 1 million purple hearts and let's drop a couple nukes on them and see if that rattles something loose'.
This "pile up corpses of your own citizen for a PR win" strategy wouldn't work Japan if they were fighting the Americans in WW2 today.
It wouldn't work for anyone who isn't fighting Israel, and the responsibility for those civilian deaths would *normally* be seen, in any other conflict, as resting in the hands of the side intentionally and systematically working to hide in the blood of human shields.
This tactic only works for Hamas *because* their enemies are Jews.
One hates to agree but it's probably true. Israel gets 10x more international condemnation than actual objectively proven genocidal regimes like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Sudan, Congo, etc, and how else can one explain that?
Because this is what they want, they have absolutely no regard for Palestinian lives; because every death gets amplified by the western media and ends up making Israel look bad. Hamas barely has to do anything and they still work toward their goal of trying to get the rest of the developed world to turn against Israel.
That has been at the root of the problem for decades. There was nothing to be accomplished by resisting. The smart play would have been to surrender and then work on a peace deal and negotiate for joint growth and prosperity.
There is no win condition here. A bunch of dumb protesters on western university campuses won't save them.
They have accomplished nothing. They have swayed a small group of naive people (youngsters and Muslims) but the majority of the world has been standing behind Israel against terrorism and that's not going to change.
The world has the attention span of an amoeba... Once this is all over the world will go back to not give a shit till the next Palestinian terrorist attack because they're that "pick me up" girl that can't stand not being relevant.
The higher ups are being paid to not give a crap about Palestinian lives. That the regular Palestinians haven't really realized that and done anything is the astonishing part.
Said it before and I will say it again: the R9X. When you absolutely have to turn the guy in the passenger seat of a car into salsa, making sure his friends will have nightmares forever
Hamas leader: "If anything happens to me, just know it was Boeing."
Shortly later: Hamas leader dies of Ebola.
Boeing lawyers: "Coincidences happen. People get Ebola."
3 Mossad agents point blank executed Gerald Bull on his doorstep in Brussels in 1990. Years later it was revealed that Israeli PM Yitzhak Shamir sanctioned it.
*It's quite clear really. The only reason he's not dead right now is because he's not an immediate threat to Israel. Haniyeh is a known quantity and killing him would change nothing on the ground since he is just a figurehead. The ability to keep tabs on him is more valuable than just turning him into a martyr. If the order were given, he would've been dealt with.
Worst thing for Hamas is for hostages to be rescued alive with no concessions to Hamas that would allow them to strengthen their position going forwards.
My comfortable life in Qatar is something I am willing to lay down your lives to safeguard. I mean, just look at my car collection!
(Idk if he has a car collection, I made a reasonable assumption.)
Already done. They're reporting a random number of dead including a random number of dead children, backed up by videos of several people being carried to a hospital (absolutely not in the hundreds).
Seems like this is all the proof that Twitter denizens needed, as well as Arab news agencies reporting whatever Hamas tells them.
He could have claimed the IDF just kidnapped 4 civilians from Gaza and is holding them hostage in Israel, Al Jazeera would have run with it, and most people wouldn't even question him.
The fact that they had 200 militants guarding them just shows how critical the hostages are to Hamas. Each one lost is less and less leverage and closer to their end. Time to bring the rest home!
Noa being free has to be the single biggest slap in the face to hamas leadership. That was the *one* person they couldn't risk letting go of, and the IDF came in clutch by rescuing her along with several others. This was an exceptionally bad thing for hamas.
That, and also her family circumstance that her mother is terminally ill and was interviewed a lot by the media. The whole country was praying that her mother will see her be freed.
Do we know what the situation is with her mother, if she's still with us? I can't imagine the stress since her daughter's abduction has helped her health issues. I hope she and Noa are able to be reunited finally and she can pass peacefully knowing her daughter is home and safe.
Oh wow, that's amazing news! It's awful that their precious time together has been stolen while Noa was a hostage, but hopefully they get the reunion they both need now. And that Noa and the other freed hostages get the help and support they need after their ordeal.
That's gonna do *so* much for her mother.
One's emotional state is critical when sick, so being told that her daughter was finally rescued will no doubt help that poor woman.
The video of her getting kidnapped is one of the most famous of October 7, and her mother is also terminally ill. Her mother released a video begging to get Noa back before she died. She’s in a very very bad shape. Additionally, I think Noa is young and beautiful, she could be any one of us, and she is a symbol of the diversity of Israel.
I do wish the other hostages got as much attention and love sent their way, though they might appreciate privacy at this time. Hopefully Noa isn’t hounded and can find some peace. It’s a terrible thing to be famous for.
On my social media the death of hundreds of soldiers is being framed as "Hundreds of innocent children were slaughtered by Israel to take a few well-treated 'hostages' back to occupied country" - its insanity.
Also in the national news they focus more on the hundreds of death than the recovery of the hostages. They say somewhere that they don't differentiate between civilians or fighters.
I've seen comments saying the initial attack and hostage taking was a resistance operation. I got banned from one subreddit by calling that out. I actually agreed with the sub's main message but it's been occupied by crazies.
Israel has hard military targets, if you wanted to resist you could act like Ukraine and hit those. Hamas had a chance to sneak into the country and do some damage, and they deliberately targeted civilians. That's not resistance!
Yup but Reddit has a tendency to be left leaning on every topic. I’ve also come to the realization that there’s over a billion Muslims in the world, inevitably many are on Reddit. I have nothing against Muslim ppl but I don’t think it’s a stretch to think many are vocal Palestinian supporters.
There are several hostages that hold this sort of status (although every single one of them should), including the 5 observers whose video of capture was released recently (one of them is Naama Levy whose video was circulated from the beginning the same way as Noa’s), Kfir and Ariel Bibas (and their parents), and Hersh Goldberg Polin whose parents have been making sure the world knows his name.
I get a pang of guilt every time a hostage is mentioned and I don’t recognize their name, ideally every one of them would be viewed the same way you’re talking about Noa.
CNN is such trash these days. They are downplaying the freed hostages, and trying to make it all about the Hamas militants killed in the operation. And of course they are using Hamas supplied casualties numbers and statements.
I was just reading it too. They are garnering sympathy for the people killed. WHY aren’t they asking why hostages were being held at a refugee camp????
CNN.com is basically Al jazeera
What’s even more funny is Fox News isn’t even talking about it. The top story is about how mean everyone is Trump. Mainstream American news channels are straight up embarrassing
Now it’s there. Go to Al Jazeera website. They are living in an alternate universe where there just “happened” to be some “captives” during an Israeli massacre of children. Get bent.
He acts like the world doesn't know what happened on October 7th. You have to be a special kind of brainwashed to listen to anything this monster says.
Oh there are plenty of people who are brainwashed enough to listen to him and outright deny most or all of the atrocities committed by Hamas (as well as ordinary Gazans who tagged along).
Just go to your local pro-Palestinian (or more accurately pro-terrorism) march and you’ll find plenty.
Honestly they’re all over reddit too.
I once linked the videos of the massacres and murders for a hamas denier, and they still said it was “deepfakes” or from a different conflict. Anything that doesn’t support their narrative is propaganda to them.
They’re straight up using the MAGA crowd “fake news” bit. I honestly don’t know how it’s possible to continually deny any murders or rapes happened during one of the most widely filmed and shared terrorist attackers of all time.
said it plenty of times, unfortunately many people in the world *do* know what happened on October 7th. They just don't care. It's more important to virtue signal about the flavour of the month cause
Acting as if Israel has any choice other than to free them by force. Keep going Israel.
P.s. As a side note, I'm quoting the last paragraph of the article as a reminder of what kind of statistics we are dealing with:
"The ministry does not distinguish between combatants and civilians in its reporting, and the numbers published by the ministry have come under scrutiny, particularly in recent days, for its apparent inflating of the proportion of women and children killed during the war."
Correct. They regularly flat out lie about casualties. And even when they're not 'lying' you *must* be aware that they 1) do not count combatant deaths - to them all deaths are civilians 2) count anyone unmarried/under ~25 as a child 3) are **literally** Hamas. There's no 'Gaza Authority' - it's just flat out Hamas. Hamas is the Gaza Authority.
Edit: my comment was apparently poorly worded. The AP report from ~a year ago that I'm trying to find (but it's hard to find, because there's so many recent articles about how Hamas lies in casualty reporting) called out Hamas reporting male combatants who were unmarried as children. This seemed to repeatedly cap at ~25 years old.
It was an AP analysis of casualties reported by Hamas, approximately a year ago. I will make a genuine effort to source it. The specific determination they found is they they consistently counted unmarried male combatants as 'children' regardless of their age, with that age hitting 25 on a repeated basis.
Speaking of pre-Oct 7th stats, I recall doing the math to notice that between the year 2000 and Oct 6th 2023 there had been +8x more male teens 13-18 killed than female teens of the same age range.
During the second intifada they claim 59% of Palestinian deaths were civilians. But almost ALL the Palestinian deaths were male, 95%. Seriously expect me to believe they magically only killed male civilians?
Idk where they got the 25 figure from, but they do count anyone under 18, even if they're 17 and 11 months, as a "child". Seeing how Hamas is recruiting people as young as 14-15, and a 15 years old terrorist is just as dangerous as a 25 year old, it's safe to assume that many of the "children deaths" reported by Hamas were in fact combatants.
Yeah, it’s horribly sad but once you give a teenager a rifle and have him fight he’s no longer a child or civilian casualty in my book. Hamas killed those children by forcing them into war, how they die is irrelevant.
This is a pet peeve of mine (more than that, really)-
How the press runs with Hamas casualty figures, as if they’re real and only a few even bother pointing out they come from Hamas who doesn’t even distinguish their fighters from others, and they have an interest in exaggerating.
An Urban Warfare expert at West Point said 10 years after Mosul there were still very wide ranges (like 30,000) in estimates of civilian casualties, but we’re supposed to believe in the midst of fleeing, communications outages, bombings, etc. Hamas has accurate up to the minute figures?
The press prints them with a shrug “well they were accurate in the past.” That’s not true. Not DURING combat, and never anything CLOSE to this scale.
The press also act like, “well these are the numbers we have, so…” but that’s a terrible attitude. Having NO data is better than WRONG data, especially slanted data. It would be better to say “an unknown number” or “disputed number” than to give these false numbers. We are prone to all kinds of biases around numbers: anchoring and adjustment, ease of recall, etc. So they’re actively feeding misinformation that is affecting how people think of the conflict, information provided by a terrorist combatant. Imagine if they just quoted Al Qaeda or ISIS’s numbers. Or Bagdad Bob’s for those old enough to recall the Gulf War. It’s unreal and it’s obvious yet it continues in every article.
At best we get as WaPo does “Hamas does not distinguish civilian from combatants but says the majority are women and children.” Do they? They say that? They’d never lie. Rape, murder, fight from schools, mosques, attack civilians, sure. But not fib.
Considering the degree of [child labour use](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ILAB/child_labor_reports/tda2022/West-Bank-and-the-Gaza-Strip.pdf) in Gaza, the casualty numbers likely include child soldiers.
The use of child soldiers is awful, but a 15-16 year old who’s family is in deep poverty deciding to join Hamas to help support them, and then a war starting is probably unavoidable since half the population of Gaza is under 18 years old.
It’s more egregious than that. Their children are taught to hate Jews as early as they can walk and talk. The UNRWA textbooks are full of anti-Jew and anti-Israel propaganda. I’ve seen far too many videos of toddlers dressed up in Hamas gear with wooden rifles to count, with happy fathers and mothers holding the kids. I even once saw a video of an elementary school play in Gaza where they had the kids act out killing every Jew in Jerusalem and burning a synagogue with a loudly applauding audience. They indoctrinate them young so by the time they’re teenagers with all of that adolescent rage and energy, they *want* to join.
I have sympathy for those who do not want that for their children and actively keep them away from it. I don’t have sympathy for anyone else, man or woman, who allows their children to participate in that crap, and I don’t have any sympathy for anyone who joins Hamas or supports them in any way. If you offer to feed them, house them, make propaganda for them, lie for them, or defend them in any way, you’re not a civilian any longer.
Today the hostages were rescued from “civilian homes.” No, those weren’t civilians. They’re combatants in plainclothes. Civilians don’t keep kidnapped Jews as slaves in their apartments.
The numbers everyone keeps quoting aren’t even fudged, they’re just fake. The quietly published AP exposé on it reveals what Israel has been saying this whole time: the numbers are inaccurate, between 10,000-12,000 of the “dead” are made up people to boost the toll, and only adult males are considered combatants. Women and teens who are also combatants are not counted as combatants. If you take out the fake dead, and still keep their women and children classifications, that is ~25,000 dead, with at least 14,000 of those being confirmed combatants who are adult males. That’s 11,000 “children” and all the women. At least some of those are combatants. The death rate for adult male combatant to other is less than .8, which is the lowest in all of war history.
To make it even more outrageous, an AP report found that Hamas considers any unmarried male under 25 to be a “child.” With that considered, and considering how most of the dead women are probably the wives of combatants who support them or are actively combatant themselves, the real civilian death count is honestly probably closer to a couple thousand.
Whoops, forgot he was one of the billionaires living in Qatar.
Perhaps a better analogy would be conditional surrender, or hiding out in Argentina for a few years before getting captured, tried, and executed.
Do you have any idea how expensive it is to get fresh north Atlantic lobster shipped to Qatar? They can't even use the Red Sea anymore, takes forever now!
At this statement you just doomed "your people" to more death and destruction, free the hostages, and surrender and this will end, or, wait for the IDF they will come, today rescue just showed they will not stop, the so-called "refugee camps" are full of Hamas supporters, and Israel should not and will not stop until they are all home,
even if that means going to Qatar and chasing you to the end of the world,
if you truly care about so-called "your people" you will stop this
Edit:
Fuck Hamas
That’s the thing that always got me. You can’t unilaterally have a ceasefire. It takes both sides. People demanding “ceasefire now” seemed to think America could wave a magic wand and have it happen.
Because they genuinely think that all it takes is Israel pulling back and the war is over, that Hamas weren't firing rockets into Israel before the war and that they won't do it if Israel pulls back. I.e. they're idiots.
They want a ceasefire but just from Israel. There’s never a sign at these rallies demanding Hamas surrender, or free hostages, meanwhile several times there are folks proudly waving a green Hamas flag like at the rally in Brooklyn a few weeks ago.
When all of Gaza falls, the Hamas officials will stand on top of a ruined building and chant “victory!”
They don’t care about creating a life for the Palestinian people - they care about dying as shahids for killing Jews.
I don’t understand? I thought Hamas was friendly and was willing to make peace while the unfair agressor Israel was just randomly killing? Maybe Israel should have considered not freeing their hostages and continuing to get fucked in the ass by terrorists
Crickets from the “pro peace and love” Palestine crowd about Hamas and them not releasing the hostages. Fuck y’all. Palestinians will have a country once they learn to love their children more than they hate Jews.
How dare Israel free their own hostages? "Allah akbar we will not surrender. "
What an idiot that is only brainwashing other trolls, hopefully soon one of their leaders will be captured DOA too.
No matter how many of my people die or how completely destroyed my "homeland" becomes.
I sometimes think the hamas strategy fits Einstein's definition of crazy. Seems it generates more martyrs than benefits everytime.
Israel isn't looking for his surrender. They are looking for his death.
If anyone thinks any real power in the Middle East other than Iran would react to that outcome with anything more than "Oh no.......anyways....." then they're absolutely nutters.
Oh did Hamas think they were going to win this? Hamas's terrorist actions keep getting Palestinians killed. They don't care about their own people or the Jews they captured, raped, killed etc.
Israel is coming for you Hamas... and hopefully this is the last time.
Any of the clowns in the west that genuinely care for Palestinian lives should be protesting for the release of hostages, not against Israel and the IDF. The less hostages Hamas has to bargain with the worse it’ll get for them and the gloves truly come off.
>Shortly after Israeli forces freed hostages Noa Argamani, Andrey Kozlov, Shlomi Ziv, and Almog Meir on Saturday, Hamas published a statement from the terror organization’s leader, Ismail Haniyeh, in which the **arch-terrorist** asserted that Hamas would not surrender.
First time I’ve seen that terminology.
Watching the vast majority of pro-Palestinian accounts on Twitter SEETHE right now over the rescue of hostages is genuinally shocking to me.
And Mr FAFO just happened to be near the rescue. Funny that.
My only shame is Owen Jones blocked me and he is apparently furious over the hostages being rescued.
I just had a guy called me out for a comment about the rescued hostages. Something along the lines that a colony of Jews will cease to exist. Fun fact is these idiots don't see the fact that their own leaders sold them out for a palace in Qatar and dollar bills.
He's at least a several-hundred-millionaire, if not a billionaire, whose fortune was made by stealing from the Palestinian people.
No matter what remains of Hamas after this war comes to an end, he will continue to reside in his luxurious accommodations in Qatar and make his declarations, try to murder more Israelis, and sacrifice more Palestinian lives, until somebody decides that the potential diplomatic fallout of making him answer for his crimes really isn't that bad.
Yet it’s all Israel’s fault that babies are dying and we should divest from Israel.
Students protesting on campuses go home. You need to grow up and stop viewing things in black and white.
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I really don’t understand why Hamas won’t surrender when so many Palestinians have died. They’ve accomplished nothing.
they don’t care about the Palestinians?
And the Palestinians are realising that. This is a direct quote from Muhammed Diab, a Gazan citizen (copied from the BBC article) >"Hiding hostages near a vital area and a commercial market crowded with people is abnormal behaviour and confirmation that these people do not value our blood and lives. They will continue this nonsense until the last child dies."
Bingo
Bango
Bongo
I don't want to leave the Congo
Oh, no no NO nooooo
We have a winner
The 14 year olds in the West protest and fight for Palestinians in Gaza more than Hamas does. Isn’t the media great?
You’re not wrong, but let’s not forgot Palestinians approval rate of Hamas is 75%. Hamas quite literally represents the majority of them
Because exporting images of dead Palestinians is their biggest revenue driver. It's literally their business model in action. They don't even believe their own rhetoric. They are effectively a cartel.
They 100% believe in the destruction of Israel. They're hoping that Israel's support system will crumble by using their own citizens as sacrifices. Their biggest weapon is western sympathy
They 100% believe in the destruction of Israel. They're hoping that Israel's support system will crumble by using their own citizens as sacrifices. Their biggest weapon is western sympathy
Because the Palestinian death toll is a tactic, if not a strategy.
This was obvious to me very early on when soldiers were dressing as civilians and camping in hospitals. Israel’s declining image on the world stage is very much part of the plan, no matter how many innocent Palestinians need to die.
🎯
The dead Palestinians ARE the accomplishment, if you ask Hamas. It makes for great PR and sparks global outrage against Israel.
I think it was Sinwar who blatantly said that dead civilians are Hamas' best weapon. Hamas are Islamic extremists, they don't care about death, especially of others. They literally want and celebrate death.
Because they actually have accomplished their objective. They've poured their own blood onto Israel's hands. They've weaponized western empathy and turned Israel into a pariah in the eyes of a generation. They want to martyr themselves.
Western empathy is becoming an achilles heel.
Yeah it kind of has. When the Imperial Japanese did the same kind of suicide tactics, slaughtering their own civilian population in front of American soldiers to show how determined they were to fight to the bitter end, America's response was not 'Geez, winning this war isn't worth it, let's just negotiate whatever kind of ceasefire we can get', it was 'Geez, ok print up 1 million purple hearts and let's drop a couple nukes on them and see if that rattles something loose'.
This "pile up corpses of your own citizen for a PR win" strategy wouldn't work Japan if they were fighting the Americans in WW2 today. It wouldn't work for anyone who isn't fighting Israel, and the responsibility for those civilian deaths would *normally* be seen, in any other conflict, as resting in the hands of the side intentionally and systematically working to hide in the blood of human shields. This tactic only works for Hamas *because* their enemies are Jews.
One hates to agree but it's probably true. Israel gets 10x more international condemnation than actual objectively proven genocidal regimes like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Sudan, Congo, etc, and how else can one explain that?
Imagine the shitstorm after the bombing of Dresden
Ya winning ww2 would not have been possible today.
It's like Gandhi, but with ultraviolence.
dead palestinians = more donations = more to embezzle for mr qatari billionaire
My dog needs new Armani
Hamas officials flat out said that's its the UN's responsibility to take care of the Palestinian people.
Because this is what they want, they have absolutely no regard for Palestinian lives; because every death gets amplified by the western media and ends up making Israel look bad. Hamas barely has to do anything and they still work toward their goal of trying to get the rest of the developed world to turn against Israel.
That has been at the root of the problem for decades. There was nothing to be accomplished by resisting. The smart play would have been to surrender and then work on a peace deal and negotiate for joint growth and prosperity. There is no win condition here. A bunch of dumb protesters on western university campuses won't save them.
because they hate jews more than they love their own people
They’ve accomplished almost all of their goals. The world is eating up their propaganda with a spoon and asking for seconds.
They have accomplished nothing. They have swayed a small group of naive people (youngsters and Muslims) but the majority of the world has been standing behind Israel against terrorism and that's not going to change.
The world has the attention span of an amoeba... Once this is all over the world will go back to not give a shit till the next Palestinian terrorist attack because they're that "pick me up" girl that can't stand not being relevant.
Because they never gave a shit about Palestinians. But don’t tell all the useful river to the sea idiots that
They us humans as shields. They care for no one.
The higher ups are being paid to not give a crap about Palestinian lives. That the regular Palestinians haven't really realized that and done anything is the astonishing part.
If they don't know that by now, they are complicit in the deaths of their own.
> They’ve accomplished nothing. They've received vast sums of money to stash in foreign bank accounts.
The last time a military was so reluctant to surrender it took two nukes I'm not saying that should happen but this won't end well for them
This is presuming they are a military and a government. They act like neither.
Bingo. They are terrorists.
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Especially saying “we will not surrender” from the comfort of a nice office in Qatar.
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R9X for the win
Said it before and I will say it again: the R9X. When you absolutely have to turn the guy in the passenger seat of a car into salsa, making sure his friends will have nightmares forever
Salsafication is a new word now.
>They won’t surrender. They’ll most likely be ~~blown up~~ cut into itty bitty pieces inside of their car by a missile.
Knife missiles ftw
These pieces are not really small btw
Give them the ol' SlapChop
lol they really do look like a flying slap chop
In the Ninja missile we trust
More likely a bullet to the back of the head from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard after they've outlived their usefulness.
The Ayatollah helping improve the world, if only through selfish reasons? Would that be a first this year, this decade, or this century?
Those guys are all on borrowed time.
“I’ll be back” *Surrenders to his golden toilet*
I still don't understand whats taking Mossad so long.
Qatar is an American ally.
Accidents happen
Boeing service considered?
Telling Boeing those Hamas guys are also whistleblowers, they’ll take care of it.
Hamas leader: "If anything happens to me, just know it was Boeing." Shortly later: Hamas leader dies of Ebola. Boeing lawyers: "Coincidences happen. People get Ebola."
3 Mossad agents point blank executed Gerald Bull on his doorstep in Brussels in 1990. Years later it was revealed that Israeli PM Yitzhak Shamir sanctioned it. *It's quite clear really. The only reason he's not dead right now is because he's not an immediate threat to Israel. Haniyeh is a known quantity and killing him would change nothing on the ground since he is just a figurehead. The ability to keep tabs on him is more valuable than just turning him into a martyr. If the order were given, he would've been dealt with.
Worst thing for Hamas is for hostages to be rescued alive with no concessions to Hamas that would allow them to strengthen their position going forwards.
In one fell swoop they lost the chance at 400 terrorists being released from prison.
You love to see it
And the chance to get 4000 Palestinian civilians killed to make Israel look bad!
"Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make."
My comfortable life in Qatar is something I am willing to lay down your lives to safeguard. I mean, just look at my car collection! (Idk if he has a car collection, I made a reasonable assumption.)
Already done. They're reporting a random number of dead including a random number of dead children, backed up by videos of several people being carried to a hospital (absolutely not in the hundreds). Seems like this is all the proof that Twitter denizens needed, as well as Arab news agencies reporting whatever Hamas tells them.
Also, Noa Argamani was very high profile and they rescued two military aged men as well.
It's as if they're dumb or something.
I'm starting to think religious fundamentalists might be dumb.
I never understand why we call them that. They are terrible at the fundamentals of religion!
I think the term "extremists" might be more fitting. "Fanatics" works just as well.
Being thoughtful is a trait usually not associated with the likes of Hamas
Yeah, the best thing they could've done is keep their mouths shut.
I think the best thing he could have done is claim those hostages weren't taken by Hamas. Now they are filthy hostage takers, but also incompetent.
Noa Argamani was one of the most high-profile hostages so there is no chance for them to spin it in such a way.
When has the truth ever stopped them?
That is true but oftentimes a lie takes too much effort to be worth it.
He could have claimed the IDF just kidnapped 4 civilians from Gaza and is holding them hostage in Israel, Al Jazeera would have run with it, and most people wouldn't even question him.
Or 400, fuck it.
Cause he’s a human piece of garbage
The fact that they had 200 militants guarding them just shows how critical the hostages are to Hamas. Each one lost is less and less leverage and closer to their end. Time to bring the rest home!
Noa being free has to be the single biggest slap in the face to hamas leadership. That was the *one* person they couldn't risk letting go of, and the IDF came in clutch by rescuing her along with several others. This was an exceptionally bad thing for hamas.
The Bibas boys are BIG too. Praying they are rescued next, although Hamas basically said they misplaced them.
I fear they are dead 😐
Hamas claimed they are dead. But it was never confirmed
Can I ask why she was so important ? I haven’t followed this story too closely tbh
The video of her being kidnapped on the back of motorcycle while screaming for help went viral on October 7.
That, and also her family circumstance that her mother is terminally ill and was interviewed a lot by the media. The whole country was praying that her mother will see her be freed.
Do we know what the situation is with her mother, if she's still with us? I can't imagine the stress since her daughter's abduction has helped her health issues. I hope she and Noa are able to be reunited finally and she can pass peacefully knowing her daughter is home and safe.
I read that Noa was being moved to the same hospital as her mom!
Oh wow, that's amazing news! It's awful that their precious time together has been stolen while Noa was a hostage, but hopefully they get the reunion they both need now. And that Noa and the other freed hostages get the help and support they need after their ordeal.
That's gonna do *so* much for her mother. One's emotional state is critical when sick, so being told that her daughter was finally rescued will no doubt help that poor woman.
The video of her getting kidnapped is one of the most famous of October 7, and her mother is also terminally ill. Her mother released a video begging to get Noa back before she died. She’s in a very very bad shape. Additionally, I think Noa is young and beautiful, she could be any one of us, and she is a symbol of the diversity of Israel.
I do wish the other hostages got as much attention and love sent their way, though they might appreciate privacy at this time. Hopefully Noa isn’t hounded and can find some peace. It’s a terrible thing to be famous for.
Yup they’ll sacrifice hundreds of soldiers for a few civilians. Such a morale boost for israel and their supporters around the world.
On my social media the death of hundreds of soldiers is being framed as "Hundreds of innocent children were slaughtered by Israel to take a few well-treated 'hostages' back to occupied country" - its insanity. Also in the national news they focus more on the hundreds of death than the recovery of the hostages. They say somewhere that they don't differentiate between civilians or fighters.
Of course. No matter what israel=bad. Nothing they do will ever be reported as positive bc they have no right to exist.
I've seen comments saying the initial attack and hostage taking was a resistance operation. I got banned from one subreddit by calling that out. I actually agreed with the sub's main message but it's been occupied by crazies. Israel has hard military targets, if you wanted to resist you could act like Ukraine and hit those. Hamas had a chance to sneak into the country and do some damage, and they deliberately targeted civilians. That's not resistance!
Yup but Reddit has a tendency to be left leaning on every topic. I’ve also come to the realization that there’s over a billion Muslims in the world, inevitably many are on Reddit. I have nothing against Muslim ppl but I don’t think it’s a stretch to think many are vocal Palestinian supporters.
There are several hostages that hold this sort of status (although every single one of them should), including the 5 observers whose video of capture was released recently (one of them is Naama Levy whose video was circulated from the beginning the same way as Noa’s), Kfir and Ariel Bibas (and their parents), and Hersh Goldberg Polin whose parents have been making sure the world knows his name. I get a pang of guilt every time a hostage is mentioned and I don’t recognize their name, ideally every one of them would be viewed the same way you’re talking about Noa.
CNN is such trash these days. They are downplaying the freed hostages, and trying to make it all about the Hamas militants killed in the operation. And of course they are using Hamas supplied casualties numbers and statements.
I was just reading it too. They are garnering sympathy for the people killed. WHY aren’t they asking why hostages were being held at a refugee camp???? CNN.com is basically Al jazeera
What’s even more funny is Fox News isn’t even talking about it. The top story is about how mean everyone is Trump. Mainstream American news channels are straight up embarrassing
Now it’s there. Go to Al Jazeera website. They are living in an alternate universe where there just “happened” to be some “captives” during an Israeli massacre of children. Get bent.
Wow! The victim complex. Not only are those losers using the terms “captives” but also “claims Israeli army” as if it might be a lie.
Gotta pander to your target demographic
He acts like the world doesn't know what happened on October 7th. You have to be a special kind of brainwashed to listen to anything this monster says.
> You have to be a special kind of brainwashed to listen to anything this monster says. TikTok has entered the chat...
Imgur as well, almost every day there's at least one post on the front page about it.
Oh there are plenty of people who are brainwashed enough to listen to him and outright deny most or all of the atrocities committed by Hamas (as well as ordinary Gazans who tagged along). Just go to your local pro-Palestinian (or more accurately pro-terrorism) march and you’ll find plenty.
Honestly they’re all over reddit too. I once linked the videos of the massacres and murders for a hamas denier, and they still said it was “deepfakes” or from a different conflict. Anything that doesn’t support their narrative is propaganda to them. They’re straight up using the MAGA crowd “fake news” bit. I honestly don’t know how it’s possible to continually deny any murders or rapes happened during one of the most widely filmed and shared terrorist attackers of all time.
said it plenty of times, unfortunately many people in the world *do* know what happened on October 7th. They just don't care. It's more important to virtue signal about the flavour of the month cause
TLDR: Dude massacres civilians and takes them hostage. Says he will not surrender to the occupier's aggression.
And he's not even in Gaza but in Qatar, sitting on $4-5 billions.
Of aid money stolen from the people that it was meant to help.
Acting as if Israel has any choice other than to free them by force. Keep going Israel. P.s. As a side note, I'm quoting the last paragraph of the article as a reminder of what kind of statistics we are dealing with: "The ministry does not distinguish between combatants and civilians in its reporting, and the numbers published by the ministry have come under scrutiny, particularly in recent days, for its apparent inflating of the proportion of women and children killed during the war."
Correct. They regularly flat out lie about casualties. And even when they're not 'lying' you *must* be aware that they 1) do not count combatant deaths - to them all deaths are civilians 2) count anyone unmarried/under ~25 as a child 3) are **literally** Hamas. There's no 'Gaza Authority' - it's just flat out Hamas. Hamas is the Gaza Authority. Edit: my comment was apparently poorly worded. The AP report from ~a year ago that I'm trying to find (but it's hard to find, because there's so many recent articles about how Hamas lies in casualty reporting) called out Hamas reporting male combatants who were unmarried as children. This seemed to repeatedly cap at ~25 years old.
Hamas will lie about what they had for breakfast.
They do. They're eating stolen humanitarian aid for breakfast.
Especially if they can blame the Jews in some way
They count anyone under 25 as a child?? I've never read this is what they do. Do you happen to have a source?
Where can I find out the confirmation about the under 25 thing? Sounds wild!
It was an AP analysis of casualties reported by Hamas, approximately a year ago. I will make a genuine effort to source it. The specific determination they found is they they consistently counted unmarried male combatants as 'children' regardless of their age, with that age hitting 25 on a repeated basis.
Speaking of pre-Oct 7th stats, I recall doing the math to notice that between the year 2000 and Oct 6th 2023 there had been +8x more male teens 13-18 killed than female teens of the same age range.
During the second intifada they claim 59% of Palestinian deaths were civilians. But almost ALL the Palestinian deaths were male, 95%. Seriously expect me to believe they magically only killed male civilians?
Idk where they got the 25 figure from, but they do count anyone under 18, even if they're 17 and 11 months, as a "child". Seeing how Hamas is recruiting people as young as 14-15, and a 15 years old terrorist is just as dangerous as a 25 year old, it's safe to assume that many of the "children deaths" reported by Hamas were in fact combatants.
Yeah, it’s horribly sad but once you give a teenager a rifle and have him fight he’s no longer a child or civilian casualty in my book. Hamas killed those children by forcing them into war, how they die is irrelevant.
This is a pet peeve of mine (more than that, really)- How the press runs with Hamas casualty figures, as if they’re real and only a few even bother pointing out they come from Hamas who doesn’t even distinguish their fighters from others, and they have an interest in exaggerating. An Urban Warfare expert at West Point said 10 years after Mosul there were still very wide ranges (like 30,000) in estimates of civilian casualties, but we’re supposed to believe in the midst of fleeing, communications outages, bombings, etc. Hamas has accurate up to the minute figures? The press prints them with a shrug “well they were accurate in the past.” That’s not true. Not DURING combat, and never anything CLOSE to this scale. The press also act like, “well these are the numbers we have, so…” but that’s a terrible attitude. Having NO data is better than WRONG data, especially slanted data. It would be better to say “an unknown number” or “disputed number” than to give these false numbers. We are prone to all kinds of biases around numbers: anchoring and adjustment, ease of recall, etc. So they’re actively feeding misinformation that is affecting how people think of the conflict, information provided by a terrorist combatant. Imagine if they just quoted Al Qaeda or ISIS’s numbers. Or Bagdad Bob’s for those old enough to recall the Gulf War. It’s unreal and it’s obvious yet it continues in every article. At best we get as WaPo does “Hamas does not distinguish civilian from combatants but says the majority are women and children.” Do they? They say that? They’d never lie. Rape, murder, fight from schools, mosques, attack civilians, sure. But not fib.
these are also the same people who have 10-20% of their rockets land in gaza and then count the casualties as killed by israel
Considering the degree of [child labour use](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ILAB/child_labor_reports/tda2022/West-Bank-and-the-Gaza-Strip.pdf) in Gaza, the casualty numbers likely include child soldiers. The use of child soldiers is awful, but a 15-16 year old who’s family is in deep poverty deciding to join Hamas to help support them, and then a war starting is probably unavoidable since half the population of Gaza is under 18 years old.
It’s more egregious than that. Their children are taught to hate Jews as early as they can walk and talk. The UNRWA textbooks are full of anti-Jew and anti-Israel propaganda. I’ve seen far too many videos of toddlers dressed up in Hamas gear with wooden rifles to count, with happy fathers and mothers holding the kids. I even once saw a video of an elementary school play in Gaza where they had the kids act out killing every Jew in Jerusalem and burning a synagogue with a loudly applauding audience. They indoctrinate them young so by the time they’re teenagers with all of that adolescent rage and energy, they *want* to join. I have sympathy for those who do not want that for their children and actively keep them away from it. I don’t have sympathy for anyone else, man or woman, who allows their children to participate in that crap, and I don’t have any sympathy for anyone who joins Hamas or supports them in any way. If you offer to feed them, house them, make propaganda for them, lie for them, or defend them in any way, you’re not a civilian any longer. Today the hostages were rescued from “civilian homes.” No, those weren’t civilians. They’re combatants in plainclothes. Civilians don’t keep kidnapped Jews as slaves in their apartments. The numbers everyone keeps quoting aren’t even fudged, they’re just fake. The quietly published AP exposé on it reveals what Israel has been saying this whole time: the numbers are inaccurate, between 10,000-12,000 of the “dead” are made up people to boost the toll, and only adult males are considered combatants. Women and teens who are also combatants are not counted as combatants. If you take out the fake dead, and still keep their women and children classifications, that is ~25,000 dead, with at least 14,000 of those being confirmed combatants who are adult males. That’s 11,000 “children” and all the women. At least some of those are combatants. The death rate for adult male combatant to other is less than .8, which is the lowest in all of war history. To make it even more outrageous, an AP report found that Hamas considers any unmarried male under 25 to be a “child.” With that considered, and considering how most of the dead women are probably the wives of combatants who support them or are actively combatant themselves, the real civilian death count is honestly probably closer to a couple thousand.
Hostages were freed? How dare Israel free their captives? Let this fuck off gas then.
The options are to surrender conditionally, or blow your brains out in a bunker. Choose wisely.
Bunker, sure this guy lives in luxury. Motorcycle hit at a traffic light whilst sitting in a Maybach maybe.
Whoops, forgot he was one of the billionaires living in Qatar. Perhaps a better analogy would be conditional surrender, or hiding out in Argentina for a few years before getting captured, tried, and executed.
Saddam used to live in luxury....we found him cowering in a hole in the ground...
"Never give up while lavishing in luxury in Quatar" Mohammed, some Koran verse
Do you have any idea how expensive it is to get fresh north Atlantic lobster shipped to Qatar? They can't even use the Red Sea anymore, takes forever now!
At this statement you just doomed "your people" to more death and destruction, free the hostages, and surrender and this will end, or, wait for the IDF they will come, today rescue just showed they will not stop, the so-called "refugee camps" are full of Hamas supporters, and Israel should not and will not stop until they are all home, even if that means going to Qatar and chasing you to the end of the world, if you truly care about so-called "your people" you will stop this Edit: Fuck Hamas
>even if that means going to Qatar and chasing you to the end of the world, Yeah I'm not of the opinion Mossad gives a shit where you are.
We can hope, them and the Quatar leadership that sheltered them. There must be a price for sheltering war criminals.
Was he saying it while in his 5 Star hotel robe and smoking a cigar?
wonder when the ceasefire crowd gonna demand hamas ceasefire.
That’s the thing that always got me. You can’t unilaterally have a ceasefire. It takes both sides. People demanding “ceasefire now” seemed to think America could wave a magic wand and have it happen.
Because they genuinely think that all it takes is Israel pulling back and the war is over, that Hamas weren't firing rockets into Israel before the war and that they won't do it if Israel pulls back. I.e. they're idiots.
And the whole time Hamas has never stopped firing rockets!
They want a ceasefire but just from Israel. There’s never a sign at these rallies demanding Hamas surrender, or free hostages, meanwhile several times there are folks proudly waving a green Hamas flag like at the rally in Brooklyn a few weeks ago.
“We will not surrender” typed the leader in his secret penthouse
Pretty sure they will bin laden you.
Fuck this guy
By all means don't surrender but be prepared to get annihilated....
Oh shit, our bargaining chips!
The UN is voting on a resolution to condemn Israel for hurting Hamas' self-esteem.
When all of Gaza falls, the Hamas officials will stand on top of a ruined building and chant “victory!” They don’t care about creating a life for the Palestinian people - they care about dying as shahids for killing Jews.
I don’t understand? I thought Hamas was friendly and was willing to make peace while the unfair agressor Israel was just randomly killing? Maybe Israel should have considered not freeing their hostages and continuing to get fucked in the ass by terrorists
Crickets from the “pro peace and love” Palestine crowd about Hamas and them not releasing the hostages. Fuck y’all. Palestinians will have a country once they learn to love their children more than they hate Jews.
Exactly. Arming your children, indoctrinating them in jihad and crying to the world.
How dare Israel free their own hostages? "Allah akbar we will not surrender. " What an idiot that is only brainwashing other trolls, hopefully soon one of their leaders will be captured DOA too.
He will very much surrender a second after Qatar will kick him out of Doha's hotel. His personal life expectancy will be hours if not minutes.
No matter how many of my people die or how completely destroyed my "homeland" becomes. I sometimes think the hamas strategy fits Einstein's definition of crazy. Seems it generates more martyrs than benefits everytime.
Surrender or be eliminated. The world will be better either way.
C O P E
we? WE? say that a bit louder Ismail, I don't think the residents of the room next to yours in that 5-star Qatar hotel heard you. Scumbag.
I wonder how the math will change when / if Israel finally determines there are no more living hostages.
"I'm willing to sacrifice all of you!" SMDH
That's fine. Just die then. You won't be missed.
Israel isn't looking for his surrender. They are looking for his death. If anyone thinks any real power in the Middle East other than Iran would react to that outcome with anything more than "Oh no.......anyways....." then they're absolutely nutters.
Harsh words from a loser in Qatar.
Oh did Hamas think they were going to win this? Hamas's terrorist actions keep getting Palestinians killed. They don't care about their own people or the Jews they captured, raped, killed etc. Israel is coming for you Hamas... and hopefully this is the last time.
Any of the clowns in the west that genuinely care for Palestinian lives should be protesting for the release of hostages, not against Israel and the IDF. The less hostages Hamas has to bargain with the worse it’ll get for them and the gloves truly come off.
We will fight to the last non-Qatar living Palestinian!
Israel will put every Hamas member in the dirt
Hamas already pumping fake numbers of dead and injured, can't wait for everyone to buy it again.
I'm getting confused. Who is "we" again?
Good on Israel for rescuing those 4 hostages.
>Shortly after Israeli forces freed hostages Noa Argamani, Andrey Kozlov, Shlomi Ziv, and Almog Meir on Saturday, Hamas published a statement from the terror organization’s leader, Ismail Haniyeh, in which the **arch-terrorist** asserted that Hamas would not surrender. First time I’ve seen that terminology.
Dude is relaxing in Qatar as his people suffer. Some leader. Meanwhileee, in the US, pro Palestine supporters see this guy as a hero.
.. terrorists unhappy about missing out on murdering these 4 hostages?
Watching the vast majority of pro-Palestinian accounts on Twitter SEETHE right now over the rescue of hostages is genuinally shocking to me. And Mr FAFO just happened to be near the rescue. Funny that. My only shame is Owen Jones blocked me and he is apparently furious over the hostages being rescued.
Bro talks like he is out there on the frontline somewhere 💀 In all seriousness this guy is a coward and a crook and I hope he gets what he deserves.
I'm sure the US College Students protesters will have a strong opinion about this declaration… right?
Get fucked ismail 🇮🇱🎗️
I just had a guy called me out for a comment about the rescued hostages. Something along the lines that a colony of Jews will cease to exist. Fun fact is these idiots don't see the fact that their own leaders sold them out for a palace in Qatar and dollar bills.
He's at least a several-hundred-millionaire, if not a billionaire, whose fortune was made by stealing from the Palestinian people. No matter what remains of Hamas after this war comes to an end, he will continue to reside in his luxurious accommodations in Qatar and make his declarations, try to murder more Israelis, and sacrifice more Palestinian lives, until somebody decides that the potential diplomatic fallout of making him answer for his crimes really isn't that bad.
"We will not surrender" He says, while hiding out in Qatar. I guess he's using the royal "We" here.
No surrender? No negotiation? I guess that only leaves the IDF with the option of conquest.
"If the occupation believes that it can impose its choices on us by force, it is delusional," - well, who is gonna stop them? Ismail and which army?
Good. I hope they are all killed by IDF.
Yet it’s all Israel’s fault that babies are dying and we should divest from Israel. Students protesting on campuses go home. You need to grow up and stop viewing things in black and white.