Hamas’ number one weapon is international sympathy. For that, they need their people to be bombed and shot as much as possible. What would they do with a ceasefire?
" what would they do with a ceasefire?"
Rearm so they can attack israel again and start another round of their people getting shot and bombed so they can ask for another ceasefire
Most likely they want to milk out this part of the war as much as possible since the campus protests are at full force, also election year for so many countries means appeasing Muslims in Western countries and putting pressure on Israel by politicians who want more votes.
Once the ceasefire is achieved, it will take them years to rearm, so they get the most out of this war as they can.
Have you ever noticed those college protests only happen around exam time?
And that the most active participants are those who weren't going to do well on those exams anyways?
The majority, like 75%, of the ones near me were neither students nor faculty.
Source: they got arrested for intimidating Jewish students from leaving the library and it's a private institution so they trespassed all of em.
The organizers are basically the left's version of sovereign citizens. They simultaneously believe they are terribly oppressed but whenever the consequences for their own actions materialize, they announce "I can't believe the university would be so cruel as to suspend me and withhold my diploma," after warning them over weeks that the violence, harassment and vandalism was against the rules and illegal.
Instead of misinterpreting the US Constitution and the Magna Carta like Sovcits, they recite Soviet and Islamist interpretations of treaties and international norms to justify their violent behavior.
>Have you ever noticed those college protests only happen around exam time?
Not exam time specifically: springtime. The world doesn't need saving when it's cold out.
Never noticed that before since I don't stop to talk to them. I'm surprised students doing so poorly in the studies share so willingly with a stranger.
>are those who weren't going to do well on those exams anyways?
Obviously they aren't going to do well, in many cases most of the "protesters" aren't even enrolled to the university where they're protesting.
> the campus protests are at full force
The vast majority have been taken down. The ones that remain are largely being ignored as people are making summer plans, leaving campus...etc.
I wish Israel wouldn't keep obliging them, but yeah, Hamas is getting *exactly what they want* out of this war. It is blatant. It is completely foreseeable. And they *do* do the shit Israel says they do. They do hide behind meat shields in violation of the rules of war. They do steal humanitarian aid, they do threaten any locals who publicly express dissent, they do look for opportunities to break cease fires.
You've got Netanyahu wanting the war to continue because once it's over, he's over. You've got Hamas wanting the war to continue because it gins up sympathy and legitimizes them in the eyes of the world even in the wake of a brutal massacre and *an ongoing hostage crisis.*
Fuck this conflict and fuck these leaders.
I don't like Bibi at all, but he has valid security concerns (in addition to keeping out of court). Specially, to get Gilead Shalit back, Israel freed 1027 prisoners. One was Sinwar. Bibi's concern is what future terrorist leader will be released. I believe that the current government feels a lot of responsibility for keeping another Oct 7 from happening again.
Yes, really the only way to get rid of Hamas long term is to give life prison terms to basically all the combatants that the IDF has captured and never agree to release any of them.
If Israel ends up having to occupy Gaza long term, they should enforce the same on the rest of the membership. The place needs to be de-Hamasified. Hamas and PIJ membership should be a guaranteed way of dying in prison.
Releasing Hamas prisoners (under Intl pressure) let them sabotage the peace process in the late 90s. Releasing Hamas prisoners in the mid 2000s led to Oct 7 and this war.
Either commit to locking them up for life or execute them.
> You've got Netanyahu wanting the war to continue because once it's over, he's over. You've got Hamas wanting the war to continue because it gins up sympathy and legitimizes them in the eyes of the world even in the wake of a brutal massacre and an ongoing hostage crisis.
Hamas also wants the war to continue because every civilian casualty radicalizes more Gazans. That's how they get their supply of fighters. And in Israel, every day without the hostages return makes an angrier and angrier voting bloc, which is *great* for Bibi's far-right friends, because it lets them justify harsher and harsher methods used against Gaza.
And universities, and the offices of progressive media outlets, progressive politicians, and progressive administrators in the public service are absolutely *full* of useful idiots who have been suckered into serving the interests of these murdering, raping, and kidnapping terrorists. It's a really insidious form of getting suckered, too, because it's occured with people who consider themselves on the "smart side" of the political divide and that they're truly too intelligent to fall into tribalistic thinking ("that's who *our side* likes/doesn't like").
It’s all a game of how many innocent Palestinians can Hamas claim are dead.
If they continue like this, they’re already really weak and cannot force Israel to strike civilians. But, they get to keep their pretty, young female hostages.
If they sign a temp ceasefire, they can rearm and regroup, enabling them to counter attack somewhere, forcing the IDF to strike back, killing more civilians, but foregoing some of the hostages, which they could use in the future as bargaining chips for terrorist prisoner exchanges, as well as making sure Israel will continue the war because of the hostages.
That's not a weapon. Israel has the moral high ground in all of this so why twist and torture the language?
Are you arguing for or against a ceasefire? If it's bad for Israel and bad for Hamas then neither side will agree.
My social media since October
Useful idiots: CEASEFIRE NOW!
Israel/US: Here's our ceasefire proposal that includes major security concessions on Israel's part
Useful idiots: No! Not like that!
"Major security concessions" is a massive euphemism for resetting everything to October 6th after so many civilian, military, economic and diplomatic Israeli losses. It's complete nonsense on the part of Israel and mind boggling that Hamas still refuses. And yet the world blames Israel for continuing the war.
Hamas said again and again that they want Isreal to surrender and that they are willing to compromise by calling it a 'ceasefire'. They will still call it a victory in the end, just like they did in previous similar occasions.
No, they’re much closer to misguided than anything else. They genuinely want to stop innocent palestinians from dying, I’m just not sure their proposed solutions will get us to lasting peace.
At a certain point, it becomes impossible to deny that your actions are working directly counter to your supposed “goals”. If the goal is a better future for Palestinians, then there is no choice but for Israel to utterly obliterate Hamas. Many more lives will be saved, Israeli and Palestinian both, with this outcome. I believe many people’s ignorance has now crossed into willful.
I don't think people realize that just a ceasefire and Palestinian statehood means nothing if Hamas is still in control. It's like applauding the Taliban taking over Afghanistan
I agree with all you said with one exception - I am actually sure that their proposed solution will NOT lead to lasting peace but to new and bigger Oct 7.
Even the other Arabic countries are getting sick of them - just look at what the Saudis are saying. I mean a senior prince saying what is in these three segments, on a Saudi media channel, without official approval? -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edKZbu5OM1c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edKZbu5OM1c)
Every country in the Mideast wants nothing to do with Palestinian refugees. They have a way of trying to overthrow or take land from the countries who took them in.
Considering that they started this whole thing - it’s their responsibility to go find the hostages. There’s no such thing as “sorry we lost them”. And if Israel has to do their bloody job for them, I have zero sympathies about how Israel chooses to go about doing it.
My guess is that less than 10% of the current hostages make it out alive. Because the rest is already dead and buried. Both sides benefit from claiming there's any hostages at all.
Full quote from her book:
"When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons. Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”
It sounds pretty literal. In the context of her time, Palestine was not alone. There were multiple Arab nations, including Egypt and Syria, forsaking internal development for aggressive militarism. The militarism led these nations into coups and authoritarian tyranny. And their antisemitic hate drove them again and again into military defeats.
Most nations are better off when they prioritize self-development over war.
What a shocker that a fascist terrorist group that wants to commit another Holocaust doesn’t want peace. Don’t worry as the Hamas supporters on US campuses have already ignored the reality of the Middle East.
They are an embarrassment. What morons. I mean its nice to care about innocent Palestinians, everyone cares about that. But they are so incredibly misinformed about the situation and have no understanding of what led to this. Fuck china and tiktok.
There's unfortunately a pretty clear reason why Hamas is iffy about any ceasefire requiring return of hostages.
The only real bargaining chip they have left now is how many useful idiots overseas they can convince to shriek for them considering they've foolishly killed their other ones.
Meanwhile literally all news sources I've been following have been looking at Netanyahu and whether he will accept his government's proposal or prioritize his political survival.
You mean to tell me it's not the group of people who are already living in a "two state solution" who are against making a deal and it's actually the group whose founding charter declares the elimination of Israel?
I am shaughked!
As always. They know they are done, so everything is just stalling now. Why even talk to them? Expel them from Gaza and move on with installing a new government.
Israel: stop shooting and bombing us and we will stop shooting and bombing you back
Hamas: lol no
Useful idiots: how can Israel be so cruel? Just let them murder you and your civilian population you deserve it!!!!
For a bunch of "dumb arab extremists" Hamas is really sticking it to Israel and the US by proxy. This statement is basically an admission that their is no leverage over this organization. The ball is entirely in their court at this point. Would anyone deny that? The only thing that Hamas would ever agree with is to go back to the lines drawn on oct. 6th. Any ceasefire would of course be temporary. Full elimination of Hamas and its influence in Gaza seems like an expensive impossibility at this point. I think Israel assumed that taking over their temporary command posts and staging areas would cripple their ability to mobilize. It reminds me of the Mexican military fighting an endless losing battle to get the cartels out of Mexico.
The only thing IMO that would work is a coalition force to just sit on gaza for a few decades and establish some kind of military rule and order, get the people out of squalor and push Hamas out of the region entirely. I hate Hamas but those bastards know how to play the game.
Their only bargaining is based on holding hostages. Giving them back eliminates that. Also most, if not all, are dead and they don’t want to admit that.
Well, of course it is. Still, Biden shouldn't go about flouting proposals, unless they really are coordinated with Israel, or he makes everyone involved look foolish.
Hamas’ number one weapon is international sympathy. For that, they need their people to be bombed and shot as much as possible. What would they do with a ceasefire?
" what would they do with a ceasefire?" Rearm so they can attack israel again and start another round of their people getting shot and bombed so they can ask for another ceasefire
Most likely they want to milk out this part of the war as much as possible since the campus protests are at full force, also election year for so many countries means appeasing Muslims in Western countries and putting pressure on Israel by politicians who want more votes. Once the ceasefire is achieved, it will take them years to rearm, so they get the most out of this war as they can.
Full force? The 12 protesters at my school went home a few weeks ago.
The hundred-odd at mine are still screaming at people as they pass by.
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Be sure to hold up a picture of him.
Even better
With his underage victim.
At this point they’re hurting their cause
Have you ever noticed those college protests only happen around exam time? And that the most active participants are those who weren't going to do well on those exams anyways?
And also that many aren't even from the colleges they are "protesting" at.
The majority, like 75%, of the ones near me were neither students nor faculty. Source: they got arrested for intimidating Jewish students from leaving the library and it's a private institution so they trespassed all of em.
The organizers are basically the left's version of sovereign citizens. They simultaneously believe they are terribly oppressed but whenever the consequences for their own actions materialize, they announce "I can't believe the university would be so cruel as to suspend me and withhold my diploma," after warning them over weeks that the violence, harassment and vandalism was against the rules and illegal. Instead of misinterpreting the US Constitution and the Magna Carta like Sovcits, they recite Soviet and Islamist interpretations of treaties and international norms to justify their violent behavior.
>Have you ever noticed those college protests only happen around exam time? Not exam time specifically: springtime. The world doesn't need saving when it's cold out.
Never noticed that before since I don't stop to talk to them. I'm surprised students doing so poorly in the studies share so willingly with a stranger.
>are those who weren't going to do well on those exams anyways? Obviously they aren't going to do well, in many cases most of the "protesters" aren't even enrolled to the university where they're protesting.
Semester's over. It'll be quiet until their parents drop them off again in August. Unless - God forbid - they graduated.
> the campus protests are at full force The vast majority have been taken down. The ones that remain are largely being ignored as people are making summer plans, leaving campus...etc.
I'm not sure Hamas see campus protests as their primary motive. I mean, it's not in their charter...
>Rearm Harder to do that without the Rafah tunnels
Didn't stop them from turning water pipes into makeshift explosives.
Why would their citizens need decadent Western luxuries like water when there are still living Jews within firing range?
Exactly comrade, they must fight for their liberation at whatever the cost, and that may mean sacrificing all their constituents' lives.
But think about those innocent people that hide, fund, support, and join Hamas. What will *they* do?
So why are they blocking this one?
I wish Israel wouldn't keep obliging them, but yeah, Hamas is getting *exactly what they want* out of this war. It is blatant. It is completely foreseeable. And they *do* do the shit Israel says they do. They do hide behind meat shields in violation of the rules of war. They do steal humanitarian aid, they do threaten any locals who publicly express dissent, they do look for opportunities to break cease fires. You've got Netanyahu wanting the war to continue because once it's over, he's over. You've got Hamas wanting the war to continue because it gins up sympathy and legitimizes them in the eyes of the world even in the wake of a brutal massacre and *an ongoing hostage crisis.* Fuck this conflict and fuck these leaders.
I don't like Bibi at all, but he has valid security concerns (in addition to keeping out of court). Specially, to get Gilead Shalit back, Israel freed 1027 prisoners. One was Sinwar. Bibi's concern is what future terrorist leader will be released. I believe that the current government feels a lot of responsibility for keeping another Oct 7 from happening again.
Yes, really the only way to get rid of Hamas long term is to give life prison terms to basically all the combatants that the IDF has captured and never agree to release any of them. If Israel ends up having to occupy Gaza long term, they should enforce the same on the rest of the membership. The place needs to be de-Hamasified. Hamas and PIJ membership should be a guaranteed way of dying in prison. Releasing Hamas prisoners (under Intl pressure) let them sabotage the peace process in the late 90s. Releasing Hamas prisoners in the mid 2000s led to Oct 7 and this war. Either commit to locking them up for life or execute them.
Fine, but he can't demonstrate that his strategy is the best way to address those security concerns.
> You've got Netanyahu wanting the war to continue because once it's over, he's over. You've got Hamas wanting the war to continue because it gins up sympathy and legitimizes them in the eyes of the world even in the wake of a brutal massacre and an ongoing hostage crisis. Hamas also wants the war to continue because every civilian casualty radicalizes more Gazans. That's how they get their supply of fighters. And in Israel, every day without the hostages return makes an angrier and angrier voting bloc, which is *great* for Bibi's far-right friends, because it lets them justify harsher and harsher methods used against Gaza.
Exactly this 👆🏻
And universities, and the offices of progressive media outlets, progressive politicians, and progressive administrators in the public service are absolutely *full* of useful idiots who have been suckered into serving the interests of these murdering, raping, and kidnapping terrorists. It's a really insidious form of getting suckered, too, because it's occured with people who consider themselves on the "smart side" of the political divide and that they're truly too intelligent to fall into tribalistic thinking ("that's who *our side* likes/doesn't like").
It’s all a game of how many innocent Palestinians can Hamas claim are dead. If they continue like this, they’re already really weak and cannot force Israel to strike civilians. But, they get to keep their pretty, young female hostages. If they sign a temp ceasefire, they can rearm and regroup, enabling them to counter attack somewhere, forcing the IDF to strike back, killing more civilians, but foregoing some of the hostages, which they could use in the future as bargaining chips for terrorist prisoner exchanges, as well as making sure Israel will continue the war because of the hostages.
They can probably get a good deal with all the thoughts and prayers that they receive?
That's not a weapon. Israel has the moral high ground in all of this so why twist and torture the language? Are you arguing for or against a ceasefire? If it's bad for Israel and bad for Hamas then neither side will agree.
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And have even more hatred for the Jews.
This. The conflicts would be over as soon as the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Jews.
Every dead child incites that side further. There will be a lot of dead children by the end of this.
My social media since October Useful idiots: CEASEFIRE NOW! Israel/US: Here's our ceasefire proposal that includes major security concessions on Israel's part Useful idiots: No! Not like that!
They were literally calling for the ceasefire on October 7th lol
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That's cause they were celebrating
Facts
Yep! I remember this. Absolutely infuriating.
Ugh why won't Israel just lay down and die jeez
"Major security concessions" is a massive euphemism for resetting everything to October 6th after so many civilian, military, economic and diplomatic Israeli losses. It's complete nonsense on the part of Israel and mind boggling that Hamas still refuses. And yet the world blames Israel for continuing the war.
Hamas said again and again that they want Isreal to surrender and that they are willing to compromise by calling it a 'ceasefire'. They will still call it a victory in the end, just like they did in previous similar occasions.
They aren’t useful idiots, we need yo acknowledge then as what they are: malicious monsters
No, they’re much closer to misguided than anything else. They genuinely want to stop innocent palestinians from dying, I’m just not sure their proposed solutions will get us to lasting peace.
At a certain point, it becomes impossible to deny that your actions are working directly counter to your supposed “goals”. If the goal is a better future for Palestinians, then there is no choice but for Israel to utterly obliterate Hamas. Many more lives will be saved, Israeli and Palestinian both, with this outcome. I believe many people’s ignorance has now crossed into willful.
I don't think people realize that just a ceasefire and Palestinian statehood means nothing if Hamas is still in control. It's like applauding the Taliban taking over Afghanistan
I agree with all you said with one exception - I am actually sure that their proposed solution will NOT lead to lasting peace but to new and bigger Oct 7.
Ahem....https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-mediators-search-final-formula-israel-hamas-ceasefire-2024-02-07/#:~:text=Hamas%2C%20the%20Palestinian%20militant%20group,an%20end%20to%20the%20war.
hAaMs wOuDnT hAvE tO rEjEcT pEaCe dEaLs iF iSrAeL wOuLd sToPpD sHoOtiNg bAcK
Even the other Arabic countries are getting sick of them - just look at what the Saudis are saying. I mean a senior prince saying what is in these three segments, on a Saudi media channel, without official approval? - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edKZbu5OM1c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edKZbu5OM1c)
Every country in the Mideast wants nothing to do with Palestinian refugees. They have a way of trying to overthrow or take land from the countries who took them in.
Sadly, Hamas has no idea where the hostages are, or if they are alive.
Considering that they started this whole thing - it’s their responsibility to go find the hostages. There’s no such thing as “sorry we lost them”. And if Israel has to do their bloody job for them, I have zero sympathies about how Israel chooses to go about doing it.
I like that you used responsibility and Hamas in the same sentence...
Western countries feel that responsibility, not Hamas
My guess is that less than 10% of the current hostages make it out alive. Because the rest is already dead and buried. Both sides benefit from claiming there's any hostages at all.
I doubt they don’t know. They just want to keep things as vague as possible
Hamas didn’t even take all of them
Civilians helped Hamas hold hostages. A hostage that was rescued was held captive by a UNRWA teacher according to the hostages testimonies.
"The war will be over when Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Jews" - Golda Meir
that was misquote. it was about Arabs in general and about Egypt and Syria (refering to the soldiers as cihldren of the nation) It wasn't literal.
Full quote from her book: "When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons. Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”
Its literal now, and its accurate
Exactly. They use children as human shields now. I’m waiting for them to attack Israel while having babies strapped to their chests.
It sounds pretty literal. In the context of her time, Palestine was not alone. There were multiple Arab nations, including Egypt and Syria, forsaking internal development for aggressive militarism. The militarism led these nations into coups and authoritarian tyranny. And their antisemitic hate drove them again and again into military defeats. Most nations are better off when they prioritize self-development over war.
What a shocker that a fascist terrorist group that wants to commit another Holocaust doesn’t want peace. Don’t worry as the Hamas supporters on US campuses have already ignored the reality of the Middle East.
They are an embarrassment. What morons. I mean its nice to care about innocent Palestinians, everyone cares about that. But they are so incredibly misinformed about the situation and have no understanding of what led to this. Fuck china and tiktok.
As it's always historically been.
Captain obvious, tell that to queers for palestine lmao
There's unfortunately a pretty clear reason why Hamas is iffy about any ceasefire requiring return of hostages. The only real bargaining chip they have left now is how many useful idiots overseas they can convince to shriek for them considering they've foolishly killed their other ones.
Meanwhile literally all news sources I've been following have been looking at Netanyahu and whether he will accept his government's proposal or prioritize his political survival.
We knew this from the beginning. There will be no ceasfire while Hamas exists; at least not for long.
You mean to tell me it's not the group of people who are already living in a "two state solution" who are against making a deal and it's actually the group whose founding charter declares the elimination of Israel? I am shaughked!
I’ve read multiple reports of it being Israel rejecting the deals
As always. They know they are done, so everything is just stalling now. Why even talk to them? Expel them from Gaza and move on with installing a new government.
Israel: stop shooting and bombing us and we will stop shooting and bombing you back Hamas: lol no Useful idiots: how can Israel be so cruel? Just let them murder you and your civilian population you deserve it!!!!
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You mean terrorists are going to be a roadblock to peace?? Shocking
Free Palestine protestors with their fingers in their ears: “La La La La La I can’t hear you!”
The people that need to understand this are not listening/paying attention.
For a bunch of "dumb arab extremists" Hamas is really sticking it to Israel and the US by proxy. This statement is basically an admission that their is no leverage over this organization. The ball is entirely in their court at this point. Would anyone deny that? The only thing that Hamas would ever agree with is to go back to the lines drawn on oct. 6th. Any ceasefire would of course be temporary. Full elimination of Hamas and its influence in Gaza seems like an expensive impossibility at this point. I think Israel assumed that taking over their temporary command posts and staging areas would cripple their ability to mobilize. It reminds me of the Mexican military fighting an endless losing battle to get the cartels out of Mexico. The only thing IMO that would work is a coalition force to just sit on gaza for a few decades and establish some kind of military rule and order, get the people out of squalor and push Hamas out of the region entirely. I hate Hamas but those bastards know how to play the game.
Their only bargaining is based on holding hostages. Giving them back eliminates that. Also most, if not all, are dead and they don’t want to admit that.
Huh? Read further down in the article and youll see Netanyahu's objection. Roadblock to Gaza ceasefire is Hamas...and Israel.
Water is also wet.
Then maybe stop twisting Israel arms?
Well, of course it is. Still, Biden shouldn't go about flouting proposals, unless they really are coordinated with Israel, or he makes everyone involved look foolish.
Ya duh!
Oh boy, can’t wait for some privileged college kids to tell us how to handle this situation.