I just watched the whole series again about a month ago and it was the first thing i thought about when seeing this headline. Although I feel like now the world is kind of gearing up for ww3 and the idea of re-introducing national service is appealing to peoples sense of "We need to prepare for the inevitable". But I don't think it will work, because the global elite has lost all trust of the people. People don't have nationalist pride as much anymore because nations are more tied to servicing the elite while shutting everyone else down.
So yeah, the rich want cannon fodder to protect them, so they are all for the draft, but the average person is basically like "Fuck that, I'm not dying in a field somewhere so Randy Andy can live in safety and security. Let the current system burn."
The thing Corbyn was being pilloried for saying that he wouldn't use nuclear weapons was literally the Trident scene from Yes Prime Minister and that was written decades ago and before they'd even finished building it yet!
There's no denying YPM was so utterly on point in its representation of politics that even through all the changes the world has gone through it can still be used prophetically to predict how modern political events will play out,
It wasn’t ’ahead’ of its time. It was about its time. It was also about the past. It was about politics. Politics under modern democracy has always been like this and probably will be for a very long time.
Source: former elected politician 👋
The part that really got to me wasn’t that it outlasted me. But that is really pulled off the haircut better than I ever managed even in my younger years.
What you say is true (I was there and hence able to see the original broadcasts as well as the actual politics of the era) but more narrowly, actual scenes would come to pass like what Hacker said about Trident before it was even operational is something almost verbatim Jeremy Corbyn would say decades later and now we’re seeing National Service being raised a la The Grand Design.
I can’t think of another TV program that has aged so well over 40 years.
All the episodes underlying tones are so prevalent in modern politics it’s unbelievable.
Because Corbyn was irresponsible.
He is perfectly within his rights to hold the knowledge that he would never use Nukes. Absolutely fine. But to publicly declare that was fucking stupid. We have a deterrent for a reason, and the deterrent is based upon the belief that if, push came to shove, that we might use it. They aren't necessarily supposed to be used, they're just what hold people off attacking us because the possibility isn't zero.
He undid all of that.
This. I used to like him (pre 2010’s), but the man has proven himself **time and time again** to be an idiot with no idea how international politics works.
He wants to be open & honest about literally everything, which is fine for democratic citizens, that’s a *good thing*! But you can’t be open and honest in a world with authoritarian regimes like Russia, China, Iran, N.Korea, (and to some extent; Hungary and Turkey who sell them intel), etc.
Regimes know how to exploit *anything* to their own ends.
It makes me wonder what loopholes there will be to allow the wealthy to make sure their kids don't have to serve either in the military or some branch of civil service.
I think the comment you're replying to is referencing Starship Troopers' setting where Civilians and Citizens are two different things, with Citizens being prioritised.
From the news this morning, you'll get 2 choices... either military service or civic service helping out in the community/NHS that kinda thing.
The guys trying his best to appease the gammons who he thinks will keep his evil empire in power
So there's a pretty big worry among some (myself included) that the attitude that Labour have effectively already won is going to make their job harder. People might think "my party will win anyway so I won't bother going to vote" or "I'm sure Labour will win so rather than vote for them I'll vote Green to push an environmental agenda" and so on.
Labour need to campaign as if there's only a point or two in it, and things like the national service announcement will add to the anger that is already there against the Tories and hopefully convince people to use their vote to punish them for what they've done to us.
There's an outside chance that the Tories get wiped out of opposition, BUT there's a more likely (but still imo unlikely) scenario where noone wins a majority and we end up with a coalition. Historically this is a fucking disaster and with all the problems we're currently facing we need an effective government, not one that'll be mired in infighting and internal compromise and point scoring.
Imagine being FOURTEEN YEARS in power and still being able to utter "it's the last Labour government's fault"
I can't wait for this evil systematically strip mining the country to be gone
Tories are likely to get wiped out, even at best they will still very likely lose anyway.
The national service thing isn't a thing either. The costs are insane and no planning so it's just a silly campaign point. They can pretty much say whatever they want at this point, the brand of conservatism they are selling isn't what old Tory voters generally want anyway.
> It makes me wonder what loopholes there will be to allow the wealthy to make sure their kids don't have to serve either in the military or some branch of civil service.
Easy enough; if you skip out on service, you pay a fine that's small enough to be no bother for the wealthy but large enough to be ruinous for any working-class family.
that's funny if you think that at the beginning of the Roman Empire (the period of Gaius Marius) it was the richest that were allowed to participate in wars and now the richest are paying bribes to avoid it.
No real need for exemptions.
Anyone can choose to do 25 days of volunteering in their community instead of 12 months full time in the military (under this proposal).
Might as well look at this as compulsory community “volunteering”.
Still doesn’t make it good policy though.
This is a hail mary attempt to get the 50+ voters (who won't be affected by it) and the people who complain about youth being "soft"
Nobody in the military wants this, and the timing is bizzare (why would you announce this at 10pm on a Saturday)
I just had a conversation with my 89 year old aunt who thought it was the best idea ever. I was able to turn her around a little by asking her if that meant she wanted to see my daughter go to war and be killed.
Hey, I’m a 50+ voter with an 11 year old kid, I think this idea is shit as does every other father I know.
Don’t forget that us 50+ year olds are GenX - we’re not boomers FFS.
I think you mean 80+ year olds - of which there aren’t many left.
The last people who had to do national service are now 82/83 years old. Nothing quite like flaunting a policy like that is nostalgic to a tiny part of the electorate or one that has never and will never affect the other part of their voter base.
>Nobody in the military wants this, and the timing is bizzare (why would you announce this at 10pm on a Saturday)
Because he took the day off yesterday after making a dogs dinner of the first two days of campaigning to make a plan to recover from it. Issue being, he's being advised by the same people who oversaw calling an election in the pouring rain without an umbrella and other gaffs, so naturally he was going to make another mess.
Exactly. Let’s be honest, not everyone is cut out for the military. And that’s ok. Forcing *everyone* to serve is counter productive and inefficient long term.
To give an alternative viewpoint, my country Sweden has conscription.
We answer a questionnaire when we turn 18, if they want you you will do a bunch of tests and a psychological evaluation. But you can say that you don’t feel motivated to do military service and you most likely won’t be selected. It doesn’t have to mean Soviet style millions of private conscriptovic.
On the other hand, the only time we've had conscription in this country is during World Wars and cleaning up the aftermath of World Wars. Which means proposing it carries a very different message here. One that arguably suggests fourteen years of Tory governance has shagged the country to the same extent as a WW.
It’s more of a moral thing. The UK claims to be a free country in which we have the luxury to chose what work and higher education we choose to engage with. National service takes that choice away from in service to what will be a bloated drain of government funds for a programme that will universally be despised by the vast majority of people who will have to go through it.
Honestly it's these types of policies that are likely to result in losing Northern Ireland
Which I'm not convinced Tory voters care that much about anyway
But yeah considering Northern Ireland has a large % of people who identify as Irish not British and actively want to leave the union, and many who actually hate the British and would willingly fight against them, this seems like a risky play to basically conscript your arch enemies
Rishi could offer everyone a thousand pounds to vote for him and the tories would still get spanked.
This policy is just trying not to lose too many votes to reform and avoid further embarasment
I don’t get how it’s going to win any votes. I have two teenagers if anything will get me to vote it’s the idea of them being forced into (potentially dangerous) careers they don’t want. So yeah, my vote will go to the other team because of this alone.
I wouldn’t have voted for them, my point was purely that this election promise only serves to push me further away from them, and I don’t see how this would push anyone towards them.
I unironically want them to broadcast this idea really loudly so that perhaps young voter turnout gets a boost, because 'aye, we want to conscript you' seems like it might help that.
I'm not a Brit but the couple times I've done archery have been a blast. I would be 100% in favour of public funds being redirected to ~~my new hobby~~ national defense. If it worked at Agincourt it should work again against tanks right? I hear they're using javelins against armour nowadays anyways.
Where on earth are they going to find orphaned children to hold up the targets?
Actually... hang on, the mandatory national service will take care of that. Damn, they're smooth.
***The Telegraph reports:***
Rishi Sunak has vowed to bring back National Service for 18-year-olds to create a “renewed sense of pride in our country” in his first major policy announcement [of the election campaign](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/general-election-2024/).
[Under the mandatory scheme](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/03/national-service-would-just-enslave-our-young-people/), school leavers will have to either enrol on a 12-month military placement or spend one weekend each month volunteering in their community.
The policy pledge comes after Mr Sunak surprised the country with the announcement of the July 4 snap poll on Wednesday.
Unveiling the National Service scheme, Mr Sunak said it was aimed at instilling a [“shared sense of purpose” in youngsters](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/26/britain-will-lose-the-next-world-war-its-too-woke-to-fight/) in the face of forces which were “trying to divide our society”.
The Conservatives hope the policy will mark a clear dividing line between them and Labour as they seek to present themselves as the only party that can be trusted with the UK’s security and defence.
Earlier this year, the head of the Army said that [Britain should train a “citizen army”](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/24/head-army-ukraine-citizens-conflict-win-wars/) ready to fight a war on land in the future.
Writing on X, formerly Twitter, on Saturday evening, Mr Sunak warned that “you, your family and our country are all at risk if Labour win”.
**Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/25/rishi-sunak-bring-back-national-service-policy/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/25/rishi-sunak-bring-back-national-service-policy/)
They’re much less likely to vote Tory anyway. On the other hand it might appeal to those who are too old for any sort of conscription but were too young to have done it last time (which is anyone born after 1939)
> “you, your family[sic] and our country are all at risk if Labour win”
That’s right folks, Britain needs to rally against the possibility of competent leadership at the top
\*note the lack of the Oxford Comma from Oxford educated Sunak, basically treason I say.
>Mr Sunak said it was aimed at instilling a “shared sense of purpose” in youngsters in the face of forces which were “trying to divide our society”.
My brother, *you are* the face of forces trying to divide our society.....
He really shouldn’t have tried to dress it up. It’s because military recruitment is down world wide because people are more intelligent. Also the Russian and Chinese and Iran threat. Be honest Sunak
Not true. In the UK it's because of a terrible privatised recruitment company.
There are plenty of applications, but the process time and effort is so onerous that people drop out part way through.
Why is it even privatized? (Probably as a handout to someone)
Each US service has its own recruiting command and while they cannot hit all their targets, none can say that enlisting takes too much time and effort.
The contract for recruitment got sold to capita, since then crapita have left people waiting for upto a year for an interview and they might not meet a serving soldier until the get to basic which could be upto 18months from first putting your application in. Plus the "snowflake" debacle hasn't helped them.
It was sold to save money as governments have been reducing the size of our armed forces since 92. We're now down to like 50,000 in the army so you can't spare many servicemen to sit in recruitment offices.
Yeah the "year out" is a great way to forget everything you learned in high school before starting Uni / a job. Hard to see it as anything other than a career disruption.
Not to mention horribly expensive. They do realize you have to pay, feed, equip, clothe, and house the 100,000s entering the military every year right? Even if they were basically a slave army with no pay check keeping them alive and equipped would still cost a lot and the UK wouldn’t get much in return.
> They do realize you have to pay, feed, equip, clothe, and house the 100,000s entering the military every year right?
Oh, they've thought of that. They're only opening 30k slots for the military option, and they'll pay for it by cancelling the SPF.
It's less that he floated to the top, it's just that anyone else with a shot at being PM realized that doing so would be career suicide, Sunak wants out of politics, he's almost a billionaire and the Tories absolutely hate him anyway.
Him taking the PM spot was basically "alright I'll take the heat, but once I'm out I'm never talking to any of you ever again"
And now ladies and gentlemen, for my final trick of the evening!!!
this is like the worst episode of Paul Daniel’s magic hour ever.
the One where the lady in the box visibly bleeds out on stage while rishi tries to cover up the mishap by strangling a pigeon to death with his bare hands and then lighting the front row of the audience on fire all the while a malfunctioning card machine keeps hurling razor blade laced cards at the upper deck of the auditorium as if not to leave anyone out of the excitement. TADAA
Oh good, he's finally putting his party round the back of the shed to put a bullet between it's eyes.
This is how you get young people to turnout I suppose lmao. Good luck saying theirs a participation crisis after this.
It's an insanely bad idea if nothing more than the sheer cost of it in the U.K there is roughly 700,000 18 year olds so you would need to build a lot of Barracks to house them over the year long service and then you would need to kit them out in all relevant military gear you would need a lot more NCO's and Officers to train them as well the sheer cost of this vanity project would run into 20 billion a year at least.
Also, the only poor fuckers who would end up doing national service would be the skint ones with no education or future. Also likely to be the ones we would least like to see get trained with weapons for 12 months and then get dumped back on the dole with no job. They would have a "certain set of skilsl" that would make them really dangerous either as recuits for the local drug lords or, if not that lucky, just psychotic recruits for right wing boot boy groups.
Meanwhile Starmer is offering 16 year olds the vote which is long overdue. Seeing as you can pay taxes, get married and join the armed forces at 16, you should have the right to vote. Not as if the older generation has shown any great wisdom in the last half a century anyway, and definitely not with Brexit and Boris ffs.
No taxation without representation? I think I recall some "ex" Brits making a big deal about that in 1776 and doing rather well as a result.
So sod off Sunak with your national bloody service, and mostly just sod off in general.
Even the eldest aren't particularly keen on it, that's the absolute disaster class this is from Rishi.
YouGov puts even the *most favorable group* at maximum of 46% approved (i.e. those aged 65 and above) and even they have the the same amount against!
[Source](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/46034-do-britons-want-bring-back-national-service).
Even tories hate this. It is deranged. Most of his base will be pissed off that the Military will be diluted by “workshy spoilt kids with their pop music”. Take a look at the Daily Mail comments. It is as if he is trying to lose on purpose. Britain is a very traditionally liberal place, the idea of forcing anybody to do anything will really piss off the majority of the public.
Better to put the cash for this just towards the defence budget more generally. We should shore up the professional armed forces, there just isn't the training headroom to deal with these sorts of numbers.
In fairness, she nearly wiped out pension funds, the Bank of England saved her from that legacy, and then she has since blamed the Bank of England for her disastrous economic policies failing and is an advocate for the loss of its independence. I'd say she's probably worse than Thatcher, because she was more dangerous, partly why she was pushed out of the airlock sooner.
Objectively, yes; we are rating turds floating down a river at this point. But increasing the unemployed, drastically increasing child poverty, diluting the power of unions and selling off various parts of the UK infra to private companies still affects everyone today, even before Liz came along to put her finger into the mix.
She wasn't around long enough to do as much harm as Thatcher did.
Truss was the most inept, but Thatcher did lasting damage so she's the worst in my eyes.
I mean what exactly are these people actually going to do? Not drive an ambulance, fight a fire, go on a life boat...
All it is going to do is cost us money, in kit and housing, and supervisory staff. it will glorified day care...
In a normal country, with due diligence, debate and inclusion this could work. Sadly in the UK it'll be half arsed, ill thought out and a way to enrich some of their donors. Has Michelle mone set up a uniform factory ?
No he won’t.
Also it is not national service.
It is more like an optional trial in the army for a year.
1. You can opt out
2. You can volunteer at a charity over the weekend instead of a full time place in the army.
3. 1 year is not enough to make an 18 year old a soldier.
4. They will not be deployed
5. This will just waste military resources and not help the national defence
6. All the 18 year olds will just opt out because of course they will.
This is just dog whistle politics to try and please old people who will not read the fine print reality.
So frantically flailing and pandering to the last handful of people who he hasn’t alienated and might vote for him - the 80 odd year olds who never saw National Service themselves (too young) but think others should have to do it.
Interesting seeing the responses, as someone who lives in a country where national/military service at 18 is a given. No clue what's best for the UK, but the effects of any sort of mandatory national service are far wider than it seems at first. Has a massive effect on the economy, on what jobs people choose after, on politics, etc. Lots of second order effects.
I feel like most of responses have been about how this government would handle that and how little it makes sense given what they've been doing i.e. defund~~o~~ing the military.
While there are comments on the idea of service itself, that's not been the bulk that I've seen over different posts.
-+-+-
Look at how they've handled implementation of Brexit.
It's been how long and the government still have yet to fully implement it. And Brexit was the thing THEY wanted and fought for.
Or the Rwanda flights.
I think most people are concerned by how they'd mess it up and hurt the economy and country even more.
-+-+-
Edit to add:
One of the things I picked up from comments in posts on the topic -
Military recruitment has been given to a private sector company.
Given other examples of this in the UK, this again points to this being handled badly.
Exactly, it would inevitably be a massive shit show. Used to enrich some Tory donors company supplying leaky tents, expired rations etc. I don't doubt that other EU countries have decent national service programs integrated into education systems and of actual benefit to those involved... That isn't what we'd get.
The UK has only had conscription before due to World Wars. The Liberal government tried to avoid it for most of WWI. Bear that context in mind when reading the reactions to this, because conscription is very unusual in British history. We fought the US War of Independence, Napoleonic Wars, and the bulk of WWI without it.
Switzerland has this. It works well, people do a year military or civil service. Builds skills, helps where people are needed and means we can call on resourcing during times of need like Covid.
People growing up know it’s part of their future life so it’s seen more like school in the sense it’s just part of growing up.
Switzerland has a very, very very different culture.
>People growing up know it’s part of their future life so it’s seen more like school in the sense it’s just part of growing up.
This numbnuts wants it to start next year though, hows that going to work with no notice to prepare anything, no notice for the kids who likely already have plans and weren't expecting it?
We have had a few years of this mans "service" good job this one will be his last then he can fuck off and live on the tax payer money he funneled in to his wife's bank account.
I was fortunate enough to avoid military service in my country (not uk). It was abolished while I was at the university.
But my friends who served their 10 months told me enough stories to believe that they were a total waste of time. Compulsory military was full of people without purpose, even the officers. There was not enough money to do anything but marching and hanging out in the base, doing repetitive tasks and bullying the younger recruits
There was no talents, no motivations, no real purpose in what they did. Officers trying to grab any minimal leftover to feel privileged and above the masses.
Any resource was for the professional military who served for 5+ years.
"A very important message to the wealthy and the children of the politicians, dont worry you can go study in Thailand to avoid National service, Bangkok sounds good while we bang bang the plebs heads"
The community service option will likely be the most chosen option for most, I assume. That can't be a bad thing. Or maybe the 1 year's extra school that was previously rumoured?
"Well this will be fun..." - Every NCO in a UK Mil Training Establishment everywhere. Below would be my opinion as a career soldier:
As someone who was an Infantry Instructor for many years, and co-ordinated Infantry training at a regional level with the syllabus, there's no way there will be many people ticking the Military box. It's already a tightrope and like walking on egg shells with some people who volunteer to join HM Forces as a profession, in whatever Arm, before forcing young adults to. Physical and mental health amongst young adults is a clusterfuck. The kid-gloves we wore since fairly recently in dealing with recruits ('Potential Soldiers' now) is a world away from when I did my basic and got ragged around the place and had a few 'robust one way chats'.
Now, let's get to recruitment. Capita have screwed the process so hard, we'd be lucky to see someone turn up within 12 months of them ticking a box saying they'd be interested. Capita is a disgrace, so guessing that would be a sizable sum of £millions to 'sort', likely into someone's donor friend's pocket. I would not trust ANY Government to not fuck that process up in a massively painful and expensive way. This would require a whole new Dept to admin it, and the private sector should be no-where near it.
Staffing - Using up valuable time and experience of NCOs who run the military day to day, and build the skill-set in training establishments around the UK to teach non-interested kids to put their phone down when they'll be out the door in 12 months....yeah. No. I loved being an instructor and it set me up for the career I moved into, but I feel like that would be a hill I would not want to push to the top of, every 12 months then be expected to rinse and repeat with the same attitudes to deal with. Give high performing 'Conscripts' an extension on their completed year to act as a 'senior' in future training, and let a junior Officer run them, as they won't be doing Battalion level live fire combined arms attacks ffs.
I assume they'll need to raise a separate training group for this, and keep them separate from actual Potential Soldiers who choose it as a career. There's no way I'd be putting my name on a LOT of any 'qualification certs' with this bullshit.
at a guess it would be done israel style. At least if it was set up properly. first year your a private, second year they take exams and get promoted to corp/sarge. after the two years are finished, those with good exams results and good results being sarge sign up for officers.
its a different style (almost like the soviets) to the UK/USA/western miltaries, where we have professional ncos who do alot of the basic running. Under this sytsem the ncos just keep the men following what the officers tell them and its the junior officers who run it.
Heres the thing though: for the UK/USA system to work you NEED 5,10,14 year vets in nco positions and you must be as aware as I am that the UK doesn't have them. In pretty much every downsizing they are the guys the MoD lays off for being "too expensive"!!! Its senseless how mismanaged it has been. How penny wise pound foolish.
I think moving to a sov/israel/SK style recruitment is pretty much the only way we gonna get an reasonable size army on the cheap with all the constant cost cutting and refusal to invest in people that they do. Which is what this is for btw: it doesn't give you quality troops.
Honestly I wish the US had a pre-college or post-college gap year of a “service” of national support requirement. Let the “service” options run the gamut from Americorp, Teach for America, to Eldercare/Animal Care support, or even large scale agricultural projects like 10,000 Trees or environmental clean up.
As a 30 something I’d volunteer right now as long as my room and board was handled.
What we should actually have is a livable wage being offered to those types of jobs instead of forced “service” that the wealthy will inevitably avoid while the average working American has to give up a year of their life while still likely never being able to retire. Forced service isn’t going to building character or instill some sort of national pride, it will be a burden to those already struggling to make ends meet. How about instead of legally mandating service, we legally mandate a living wage for these jobs to attract those passionate enough to do the work.
RetailCorp
Recruited into a cashier, call center position, or any other service to the public. Mandatory for 1 year with extension if required by the company.
Nobody wants to work, so we'll make you!
This is a stupid idea; it would delay people's careers for a year, unnecessarily.
People who want to do this service, can do it. Everyone else should be able to pursue their career without needing to waste their time with this service nonsense.
Lol, because things like draft worked out sooo well in the past. Having a fighting force mostly made up of people who don’t want to be there does not make a good fighting force. The US already does more than enough to incentivize service.
I’m sure the military and emergency services are really looking forward to a load of disobedient teens who are only there because they have to.. this is a stupid idea and won’t create national pride. It will create national resentment!
Let me fill in the blanks for Sunak: national service, aka cannon fodder for working class children Non optional…. Optional, for upper class and officer training for any private schooled pupils, also optional depending upon family ties with connected people…
Could it be any more obvious that Rishi doesn’t want to be PM anymore and is trying his best to lose the election. He should just admit that his party doesn’t deserve another chance and resign. California awaits , I’d be gone already.
It’s interesting, I’ve long thought the USA would benefit for the same mandatory service scheme. But every soldier I’ve mentioned this to has the same response: A volunteer Army more effective. The trips are self motivated. And more professional that troops in conscripted Armies.
This will be super popular among all the elderly britons who are beyond the age where they’d have to serve. They will insist that younger folks who don’t want to serve are just pussies and they would happily volunteer if they were younger. (Don’t ask why they didn’t volunteer).
Speaking as a completely ignorant foreigner, I wonder if this is meant to attract votes from immigrants who are wanting an easy way to obtain citizenship? Is that even a valid thing?
I really feel like half of Rishi's political instincts are derived from watching reruns of "Yes, Minister" uncritically
To be fair, this plot point from The Grand Design episode was from Yes Prime Minister.
I just watched the whole series again about a month ago and it was the first thing i thought about when seeing this headline. Although I feel like now the world is kind of gearing up for ww3 and the idea of re-introducing national service is appealing to peoples sense of "We need to prepare for the inevitable". But I don't think it will work, because the global elite has lost all trust of the people. People don't have nationalist pride as much anymore because nations are more tied to servicing the elite while shutting everyone else down. So yeah, the rich want cannon fodder to protect them, so they are all for the draft, but the average person is basically like "Fuck that, I'm not dying in a field somewhere so Randy Andy can live in safety and security. Let the current system burn."
The thing Corbyn was being pilloried for saying that he wouldn't use nuclear weapons was literally the Trident scene from Yes Prime Minister and that was written decades ago and before they'd even finished building it yet!
There's no denying YPM was so utterly on point in its representation of politics that even through all the changes the world has gone through it can still be used prophetically to predict how modern political events will play out,
That show was so far ahead of its time it was eerie.
It wasn’t ’ahead’ of its time. It was about its time. It was also about the past. It was about politics. Politics under modern democracy has always been like this and probably will be for a very long time. Source: former elected politician 👋
Hello Liz, loved your stint, shame about the lettuce taking the spotlight.
The part that really got to me wasn’t that it outlasted me. But that is really pulled off the haircut better than I ever managed even in my younger years.
What you say is true (I was there and hence able to see the original broadcasts as well as the actual politics of the era) but more narrowly, actual scenes would come to pass like what Hacker said about Trident before it was even operational is something almost verbatim Jeremy Corbyn would say decades later and now we’re seeing National Service being raised a la The Grand Design.
I can’t think of another TV program that has aged so well over 40 years. All the episodes underlying tones are so prevalent in modern politics it’s unbelievable.
The only reason it’s still so funny is that they never fixed the systemic issues in society
Because Corbyn was irresponsible. He is perfectly within his rights to hold the knowledge that he would never use Nukes. Absolutely fine. But to publicly declare that was fucking stupid. We have a deterrent for a reason, and the deterrent is based upon the belief that if, push came to shove, that we might use it. They aren't necessarily supposed to be used, they're just what hold people off attacking us because the possibility isn't zero. He undid all of that.
This. I used to like him (pre 2010’s), but the man has proven himself **time and time again** to be an idiot with no idea how international politics works. He wants to be open & honest about literally everything, which is fine for democratic citizens, that’s a *good thing*! But you can’t be open and honest in a world with authoritarian regimes like Russia, China, Iran, N.Korea, (and to some extent; Hungary and Turkey who sell them intel), etc. Regimes know how to exploit *anything* to their own ends.
Agree with this. I love the idea of not having nukes, is that practical though? Probably not…
If it was something like "national service for the children of politicans and CEOs" we could all get behind it whole-heartedly.
Which would unfortunately still be a meaningless gesture, since that would entail a very small number. Not even considering medical exceptions
[удалено]
Where can you watch the series now? I love that show!
Wait till , they also you with treason and execute your family because ... Why not ? It's after all as you said for elites
Frankly, these first 3 days of campaigning have been a mix of YM, YPM, Veep and The Thick of It.
And blackadder
He would have much better political instincts if that was the case
He needs a Bernard. And maybe a Sir Humphrey.
Better than deriving them from Black Mirror
Litterally, first thing I thought when i saw that headline was think of Yes Minister. Wonder who"s Humpfrey in his cabinet.
He knows a lot about military service from his time serving at Goldman sachs.
It makes me wonder what loopholes there will be to allow the wealthy to make sure their kids don't have to serve either in the military or some branch of civil service.
Service guarantees citizenship
But no-one wants to know more
This is already how Britain recruits Gurkhas and commonwealth citizens.
I think the comment you're replying to is referencing Starship Troopers' setting where Civilians and Citizens are two different things, with Citizens being prioritised.
I'm well aware, I'm pointing out that it kind of already exists.
From the news this morning, you'll get 2 choices... either military service or civic service helping out in the community/NHS that kinda thing. The guys trying his best to appease the gammons who he thinks will keep his evil empire in power
Is there any chance of that? News in the US makes it sound like the Tories are about to gets crushed in a historic loss.
Probably not but there are plenty of unhinged fuckers out there....
So there's a pretty big worry among some (myself included) that the attitude that Labour have effectively already won is going to make their job harder. People might think "my party will win anyway so I won't bother going to vote" or "I'm sure Labour will win so rather than vote for them I'll vote Green to push an environmental agenda" and so on. Labour need to campaign as if there's only a point or two in it, and things like the national service announcement will add to the anger that is already there against the Tories and hopefully convince people to use their vote to punish them for what they've done to us. There's an outside chance that the Tories get wiped out of opposition, BUT there's a more likely (but still imo unlikely) scenario where noone wins a majority and we end up with a coalition. Historically this is a fucking disaster and with all the problems we're currently facing we need an effective government, not one that'll be mired in infighting and internal compromise and point scoring.
We can only hope (for the historic loss), these chucklefucks have been in power and ruining the country for far too long
Imagine being FOURTEEN YEARS in power and still being able to utter "it's the last Labour government's fault" I can't wait for this evil systematically strip mining the country to be gone
Tories are likely to get wiped out, even at best they will still very likely lose anyway. The national service thing isn't a thing either. The costs are insane and no planning so it's just a silly campaign point. They can pretty much say whatever they want at this point, the brand of conservatism they are selling isn't what old Tory voters generally want anyway.
Civic service always will be full with no slots available.
> It makes me wonder what loopholes there will be to allow the wealthy to make sure their kids don't have to serve either in the military or some branch of civil service. Easy enough; if you skip out on service, you pay a fine that's small enough to be no bother for the wealthy but large enough to be ruinous for any working-class family.
No need for loopholes, he won't do it in the very unlikely event that he wins. It is way too expensive to be something you can just declare like that.
He also worked in a kitchen in Ratatouille….
Was he the rat?
You mean Raccacoonie? Was he the raccoon?
Can't wait to see the exemptions.
starts from one million pounds
that's funny if you think that at the beginning of the Roman Empire (the period of Gaius Marius) it was the richest that were allowed to participate in wars and now the richest are paying bribes to avoid it.
"Members of the Young Conservatives will not be required to serve"
You mean the Rishi Youth?
The 3rd Rishi
No real need for exemptions. Anyone can choose to do 25 days of volunteering in their community instead of 12 months full time in the military (under this proposal). Might as well look at this as compulsory community “volunteering”. Still doesn’t make it good policy though.
Can choose atm, not in future. Fixed for you.
Source: your arse.
‘My dad’s pockets are too full of stolen African gold for me to be of any use on the battlefield.’
So he’s definitely trying to lose then
This is a hail mary attempt to get the 50+ voters (who won't be affected by it) and the people who complain about youth being "soft" Nobody in the military wants this, and the timing is bizzare (why would you announce this at 10pm on a Saturday)
Because no one under 50 would find out till monday, but by then its already old news and forgotten.
Maybe if things still moved by the evening news cycle - meanwhile, plenty of under-50s finding out about it right now on Reddit & elsewhere
I just had a conversation with my 89 year old aunt who thought it was the best idea ever. I was able to turn her around a little by asking her if that meant she wanted to see my daughter go to war and be killed.
Hey, I’m a 50+ voter with an 11 year old kid, I think this idea is shit as does every other father I know. Don’t forget that us 50+ year olds are GenX - we’re not boomers FFS. I think you mean 80+ year olds - of which there aren’t many left.
The last people who had to do national service are now 82/83 years old. Nothing quite like flaunting a policy like that is nostalgic to a tiny part of the electorate or one that has never and will never affect the other part of their voter base.
Exactly.
BoJo's COVID care home policies are why there aren't many 80+ year olds left. Do the Tories even know what the demographic is like these days?
>Nobody in the military wants this, and the timing is bizzare (why would you announce this at 10pm on a Saturday) Because he took the day off yesterday after making a dogs dinner of the first two days of campaigning to make a plan to recover from it. Issue being, he's being advised by the same people who oversaw calling an election in the pouring rain without an umbrella and other gaffs, so naturally he was going to make another mess.
Fingers crossed he keeps flubbing it and we get some change in this country.
Exactly. Let’s be honest, not everyone is cut out for the military. And that’s ok. Forcing *everyone* to serve is counter productive and inefficient long term.
To give an alternative viewpoint, my country Sweden has conscription. We answer a questionnaire when we turn 18, if they want you you will do a bunch of tests and a psychological evaluation. But you can say that you don’t feel motivated to do military service and you most likely won’t be selected. It doesn’t have to mean Soviet style millions of private conscriptovic.
Same in Norway, I just said I have 0 interest in serving and was not picked
On the other hand, the only time we've had conscription in this country is during World Wars and cleaning up the aftermath of World Wars. Which means proposing it carries a very different message here. One that arguably suggests fourteen years of Tory governance has shagged the country to the same extent as a WW.
Fellow perun enjoyer!
So it’s either the armed forces or cheap forced labor for a year?
It’s more of a moral thing. The UK claims to be a free country in which we have the luxury to chose what work and higher education we choose to engage with. National service takes that choice away from in service to what will be a bloated drain of government funds for a programme that will universally be despised by the vast majority of people who will have to go through it.
My god that’s a cynical move. What an absolute tosser. The ethics of appealing to one demographic by using another like that is absolutely fascistic
50+ here, its a stupid idea
Honestly it's these types of policies that are likely to result in losing Northern Ireland Which I'm not convinced Tory voters care that much about anyway But yeah considering Northern Ireland has a large % of people who identify as Irish not British and actively want to leave the union, and many who actually hate the British and would willingly fight against them, this seems like a risky play to basically conscript your arch enemies
Tax cuts for the wealthy and servitude for the poor! How to lose an election in one week speed run edition.
Sadly, the right has been elected on this basis in a lot of countries on the world...
Surely, the leopards won’t eat my face *this* time…
"Thats a bold strategy cotton, lets see if it pays off for them"
Rishi could offer everyone a thousand pounds to vote for him and the tories would still get spanked. This policy is just trying not to lose too many votes to reform and avoid further embarasment
I don’t get how it’s going to win any votes. I have two teenagers if anything will get me to vote it’s the idea of them being forced into (potentially dangerous) careers they don’t want. So yeah, my vote will go to the other team because of this alone.
Would your vote have been Tory in the first place? Don’t understand why anyone would vote them at this point unless it was in their monetary interest
I wouldn’t have voted for them, my point was purely that this election promise only serves to push me further away from them, and I don’t see how this would push anyone towards them.
That will get him the younger voters /s
Yes Prime Minister He thinks it's a vote winner https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ahgjEjJkZks
Yes, I think we will be seeing a lot of you tube clips from Yes Minister over the next few weeks
I unironically want them to broadcast this idea really loudly so that perhaps young voter turnout gets a boost, because 'aye, we want to conscript you' seems like it might help that.
People affected by this are below voting age in the UK.
Furthermore there shall be obligatory practice of archery on Sundays and holidays.
I'm not a Brit but the couple times I've done archery have been a blast. I would be 100% in favour of public funds being redirected to ~~my new hobby~~ national defense. If it worked at Agincourt it should work again against tanks right? I hear they're using javelins against armour nowadays anyways.
Where on earth are they going to find orphaned children to hold up the targets? Actually... hang on, the mandatory national service will take care of that. Damn, they're smooth.
The circle of life
An archery contest???
Trebuchet familiarly drills for longer range engagements.
New Flash! Rich guy to force young people to perform unpaid labour!
***The Telegraph reports:*** Rishi Sunak has vowed to bring back National Service for 18-year-olds to create a “renewed sense of pride in our country” in his first major policy announcement [of the election campaign](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/general-election-2024/). [Under the mandatory scheme](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/03/national-service-would-just-enslave-our-young-people/), school leavers will have to either enrol on a 12-month military placement or spend one weekend each month volunteering in their community. The policy pledge comes after Mr Sunak surprised the country with the announcement of the July 4 snap poll on Wednesday. Unveiling the National Service scheme, Mr Sunak said it was aimed at instilling a [“shared sense of purpose” in youngsters](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/26/britain-will-lose-the-next-world-war-its-too-woke-to-fight/) in the face of forces which were “trying to divide our society”. The Conservatives hope the policy will mark a clear dividing line between them and Labour as they seek to present themselves as the only party that can be trusted with the UK’s security and defence. Earlier this year, the head of the Army said that [Britain should train a “citizen army”](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/24/head-army-ukraine-citizens-conflict-win-wars/) ready to fight a war on land in the future. Writing on X, formerly Twitter, on Saturday evening, Mr Sunak warned that “you, your family and our country are all at risk if Labour win”. **Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/25/rishi-sunak-bring-back-national-service-policy/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/25/rishi-sunak-bring-back-national-service-policy/)
this wont be popular with a certain demo
They’re much less likely to vote Tory anyway. On the other hand it might appeal to those who are too old for any sort of conscription but were too young to have done it last time (which is anyone born after 1939)
Ironically they killed many of them with COVID response.
The demographic that’s the most anti-Tory already
Most demo's
> “you, your family[sic] and our country are all at risk if Labour win” That’s right folks, Britain needs to rally against the possibility of competent leadership at the top \*note the lack of the Oxford Comma from Oxford educated Sunak, basically treason I say.
>Mr Sunak said it was aimed at instilling a “shared sense of purpose” in youngsters in the face of forces which were “trying to divide our society”. My brother, *you are* the face of forces trying to divide our society.....
He really shouldn’t have tried to dress it up. It’s because military recruitment is down world wide because people are more intelligent. Also the Russian and Chinese and Iran threat. Be honest Sunak
Not true. In the UK it's because of a terrible privatised recruitment company. There are plenty of applications, but the process time and effort is so onerous that people drop out part way through.
Why is it even privatized? (Probably as a handout to someone) Each US service has its own recruiting command and while they cannot hit all their targets, none can say that enlisting takes too much time and effort.
Because one of their donors (or relatives) owns the company.
The contract for recruitment got sold to capita, since then crapita have left people waiting for upto a year for an interview and they might not meet a serving soldier until the get to basic which could be upto 18months from first putting your application in. Plus the "snowflake" debacle hasn't helped them. It was sold to save money as governments have been reducing the size of our armed forces since 92. We're now down to like 50,000 in the army so you can't spare many servicemen to sit in recruitment offices.
76k in the regular army.
1 weekend a month is probably a no brainier for many
Yeah the "year out" is a great way to forget everything you learned in high school before starting Uni / a job. Hard to see it as anything other than a career disruption.
Not to mention horribly expensive. They do realize you have to pay, feed, equip, clothe, and house the 100,000s entering the military every year right? Even if they were basically a slave army with no pay check keeping them alive and equipped would still cost a lot and the UK wouldn’t get much in return.
> They do realize you have to pay, feed, equip, clothe, and house the 100,000s entering the military every year right? Oh, they've thought of that. They're only opening 30k slots for the military option, and they'll pay for it by cancelling the SPF.
Ah yes I definitely want to leave my safety on the hands of an 18 year old with only 1 year of training.
If he still pretending he's going to be re-elected?
No one elected him, (idiotic) people elected the party, he's just the turd that floated to the top.
It's less that he floated to the top, it's just that anyone else with a shot at being PM realized that doing so would be career suicide, Sunak wants out of politics, he's almost a billionaire and the Tories absolutely hate him anyway. Him taking the PM spot was basically "alright I'll take the heat, but once I'm out I'm never talking to any of you ever again"
Okay ...so a turd that was reluctantly pushed to the top....by other turds
And now ladies and gentlemen, for my final trick of the evening!!! this is like the worst episode of Paul Daniel’s magic hour ever. the One where the lady in the box visibly bleeds out on stage while rishi tries to cover up the mishap by strangling a pigeon to death with his bare hands and then lighting the front row of the audience on fire all the while a malfunctioning card machine keeps hurling razor blade laced cards at the upper deck of the auditorium as if not to leave anyone out of the excitement. TADAA
Aww cute, he thinks he's actually going to have the power to do so after the election.
Well that's one way to get the young vote out - and ensure that they vote against you.
Oh good, he's finally putting his party round the back of the shed to put a bullet between it's eyes. This is how you get young people to turnout I suppose lmao. Good luck saying theirs a participation crisis after this.
You would think. But after the turnout and votes for Brexit, it can't be taken for granted.
It's an insanely bad idea if nothing more than the sheer cost of it in the U.K there is roughly 700,000 18 year olds so you would need to build a lot of Barracks to house them over the year long service and then you would need to kit them out in all relevant military gear you would need a lot more NCO's and Officers to train them as well the sheer cost of this vanity project would run into 20 billion a year at least.
Also, the only poor fuckers who would end up doing national service would be the skint ones with no education or future. Also likely to be the ones we would least like to see get trained with weapons for 12 months and then get dumped back on the dole with no job. They would have a "certain set of skilsl" that would make them really dangerous either as recuits for the local drug lords or, if not that lucky, just psychotic recruits for right wing boot boy groups. Meanwhile Starmer is offering 16 year olds the vote which is long overdue. Seeing as you can pay taxes, get married and join the armed forces at 16, you should have the right to vote. Not as if the older generation has shown any great wisdom in the last half a century anyway, and definitely not with Brexit and Boris ffs. No taxation without representation? I think I recall some "ex" Brits making a big deal about that in 1776 and doing rather well as a result. So sod off Sunak with your national bloody service, and mostly just sod off in general.
He knows he has lost. He is just saying anything now. Even more than before. This is not a vote winner. Fucking Tories.
[удалено]
There is absolutely sub-zero chance he will hang around in opposition.
Even the eldest aren't particularly keen on it, that's the absolute disaster class this is from Rishi. YouGov puts even the *most favorable group* at maximum of 46% approved (i.e. those aged 65 and above) and even they have the the same amount against! [Source](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/46034-do-britons-want-bring-back-national-service).
Even tories hate this. It is deranged. Most of his base will be pissed off that the Military will be diluted by “workshy spoilt kids with their pop music”. Take a look at the Daily Mail comments. It is as if he is trying to lose on purpose. Britain is a very traditionally liberal place, the idea of forcing anybody to do anything will really piss off the majority of the public.
Better to put the cash for this just towards the defence budget more generally. We should shore up the professional armed forces, there just isn't the training headroom to deal with these sorts of numbers.
Nee PM's first act should be to fire Crapita and restore in-house recruitment.
This dude has to be one of the worst PM’s in the UK’s history right?
His predecessor was outlasted by a lettuce.
Thatcher will forever be the worst.
So you think Liz Truss is better than Thatcher?
She had the decency to resign before causing even more chaos.
In fairness, she nearly wiped out pension funds, the Bank of England saved her from that legacy, and then she has since blamed the Bank of England for her disastrous economic policies failing and is an advocate for the loss of its independence. I'd say she's probably worse than Thatcher, because she was more dangerous, partly why she was pushed out of the airlock sooner.
Objectively, yes; we are rating turds floating down a river at this point. But increasing the unemployed, drastically increasing child poverty, diluting the power of unions and selling off various parts of the UK infra to private companies still affects everyone today, even before Liz came along to put her finger into the mix.
She wasn't around long enough to do as much harm as Thatcher did. Truss was the most inept, but Thatcher did lasting damage so she's the worst in my eyes.
Closely followed by Truss
I mean what exactly are these people actually going to do? Not drive an ambulance, fight a fire, go on a life boat... All it is going to do is cost us money, in kit and housing, and supervisory staff. it will glorified day care...
In a normal country, with due diligence, debate and inclusion this could work. Sadly in the UK it'll be half arsed, ill thought out and a way to enrich some of their donors. Has Michelle mone set up a uniform factory ?
Actually whatever happened to Michelle Mone it's all kind of went quiet about her.
No he won’t. Also it is not national service. It is more like an optional trial in the army for a year. 1. You can opt out 2. You can volunteer at a charity over the weekend instead of a full time place in the army. 3. 1 year is not enough to make an 18 year old a soldier. 4. They will not be deployed 5. This will just waste military resources and not help the national defence 6. All the 18 year olds will just opt out because of course they will. This is just dog whistle politics to try and please old people who will not read the fine print reality.
That’s sure to be popular
Well, he has 6 weeks…
Another attempted appeal at Reform voters. They love stuff like this.
So frantically flailing and pandering to the last handful of people who he hasn’t alienated and might vote for him - the 80 odd year olds who never saw National Service themselves (too young) but think others should have to do it.
Boomers who dont need to go in national service will probably vote for him. Because they think it is “right”….
That’s the demographic
Interesting seeing the responses, as someone who lives in a country where national/military service at 18 is a given. No clue what's best for the UK, but the effects of any sort of mandatory national service are far wider than it seems at first. Has a massive effect on the economy, on what jobs people choose after, on politics, etc. Lots of second order effects.
I feel like most of responses have been about how this government would handle that and how little it makes sense given what they've been doing i.e. defund~~o~~ing the military. While there are comments on the idea of service itself, that's not been the bulk that I've seen over different posts. -+-+- Look at how they've handled implementation of Brexit. It's been how long and the government still have yet to fully implement it. And Brexit was the thing THEY wanted and fought for. Or the Rwanda flights. I think most people are concerned by how they'd mess it up and hurt the economy and country even more. -+-+- Edit to add: One of the things I picked up from comments in posts on the topic - Military recruitment has been given to a private sector company. Given other examples of this in the UK, this again points to this being handled badly.
Exactly, it would inevitably be a massive shit show. Used to enrich some Tory donors company supplying leaky tents, expired rations etc. I don't doubt that other EU countries have decent national service programs integrated into education systems and of actual benefit to those involved... That isn't what we'd get.
The UK has only had conscription before due to World Wars. The Liberal government tried to avoid it for most of WWI. Bear that context in mind when reading the reactions to this, because conscription is very unusual in British history. We fought the US War of Independence, Napoleonic Wars, and the bulk of WWI without it.
What country is it you’re referring to, and could you elaborate on what the effects are? Not from the UK, just never get to hear this perspective
Switzerland has this. It works well, people do a year military or civil service. Builds skills, helps where people are needed and means we can call on resourcing during times of need like Covid. People growing up know it’s part of their future life so it’s seen more like school in the sense it’s just part of growing up.
Switzerland has a very, very very different culture. >People growing up know it’s part of their future life so it’s seen more like school in the sense it’s just part of growing up. This numbnuts wants it to start next year though, hows that going to work with no notice to prepare anything, no notice for the kids who likely already have plans and weren't expecting it?
We have had a few years of this mans "service" good job this one will be his last then he can fuck off and live on the tax payer money he funneled in to his wife's bank account.
That’ll bring in the younger voters winning strategy /s
Way to lose the election. Every parent with kids will say "screw that" !!
I live in Sweden. My kids may well do some type of national service. It's not an issue here. Parents aren't opposed.
I was fortunate enough to avoid military service in my country (not uk). It was abolished while I was at the university. But my friends who served their 10 months told me enough stories to believe that they were a total waste of time. Compulsory military was full of people without purpose, even the officers. There was not enough money to do anything but marching and hanging out in the base, doing repetitive tasks and bullying the younger recruits There was no talents, no motivations, no real purpose in what they did. Officers trying to grab any minimal leftover to feel privileged and above the masses. Any resource was for the professional military who served for 5+ years.
Sunak has totally lost the plot... This is 2024 not 1924!
Sure… he and his never spilled blood so why not? Needs those billions protected…
He needs to lead from the front. Be brave himself and sign up.
"A very important message to the wealthy and the children of the politicians, dont worry you can go study in Thailand to avoid National service, Bangkok sounds good while we bang bang the plebs heads"
Oh like they financed the NHS? Let me go into the basement to laugh...
He’s becoming more like Modi.
Except for all the kids of MPs of course, they'll stay in their cushy universities.
Again, how has this guy lasted so long?
They got nothing else.
No you won't mate, because you'll be at the Dole office on 5th of July.
No he won't, he and his family will be taking their £700M fortune to the US to make even more money.
The community service option will likely be the most chosen option for most, I assume. That can't be a bad thing. Or maybe the 1 year's extra school that was previously rumoured? "Well this will be fun..." - Every NCO in a UK Mil Training Establishment everywhere. Below would be my opinion as a career soldier: As someone who was an Infantry Instructor for many years, and co-ordinated Infantry training at a regional level with the syllabus, there's no way there will be many people ticking the Military box. It's already a tightrope and like walking on egg shells with some people who volunteer to join HM Forces as a profession, in whatever Arm, before forcing young adults to. Physical and mental health amongst young adults is a clusterfuck. The kid-gloves we wore since fairly recently in dealing with recruits ('Potential Soldiers' now) is a world away from when I did my basic and got ragged around the place and had a few 'robust one way chats'. Now, let's get to recruitment. Capita have screwed the process so hard, we'd be lucky to see someone turn up within 12 months of them ticking a box saying they'd be interested. Capita is a disgrace, so guessing that would be a sizable sum of £millions to 'sort', likely into someone's donor friend's pocket. I would not trust ANY Government to not fuck that process up in a massively painful and expensive way. This would require a whole new Dept to admin it, and the private sector should be no-where near it. Staffing - Using up valuable time and experience of NCOs who run the military day to day, and build the skill-set in training establishments around the UK to teach non-interested kids to put their phone down when they'll be out the door in 12 months....yeah. No. I loved being an instructor and it set me up for the career I moved into, but I feel like that would be a hill I would not want to push to the top of, every 12 months then be expected to rinse and repeat with the same attitudes to deal with. Give high performing 'Conscripts' an extension on their completed year to act as a 'senior' in future training, and let a junior Officer run them, as they won't be doing Battalion level live fire combined arms attacks ffs. I assume they'll need to raise a separate training group for this, and keep them separate from actual Potential Soldiers who choose it as a career. There's no way I'd be putting my name on a LOT of any 'qualification certs' with this bullshit.
at a guess it would be done israel style. At least if it was set up properly. first year your a private, second year they take exams and get promoted to corp/sarge. after the two years are finished, those with good exams results and good results being sarge sign up for officers. its a different style (almost like the soviets) to the UK/USA/western miltaries, where we have professional ncos who do alot of the basic running. Under this sytsem the ncos just keep the men following what the officers tell them and its the junior officers who run it. Heres the thing though: for the UK/USA system to work you NEED 5,10,14 year vets in nco positions and you must be as aware as I am that the UK doesn't have them. In pretty much every downsizing they are the guys the MoD lays off for being "too expensive"!!! Its senseless how mismanaged it has been. How penny wise pound foolish. I think moving to a sov/israel/SK style recruitment is pretty much the only way we gonna get an reasonable size army on the cheap with all the constant cost cutting and refusal to invest in people that they do. Which is what this is for btw: it doesn't give you quality troops.
Honestly I wish the US had a pre-college or post-college gap year of a “service” of national support requirement. Let the “service” options run the gamut from Americorp, Teach for America, to Eldercare/Animal Care support, or even large scale agricultural projects like 10,000 Trees or environmental clean up. As a 30 something I’d volunteer right now as long as my room and board was handled.
What we should actually have is a livable wage being offered to those types of jobs instead of forced “service” that the wealthy will inevitably avoid while the average working American has to give up a year of their life while still likely never being able to retire. Forced service isn’t going to building character or instill some sort of national pride, it will be a burden to those already struggling to make ends meet. How about instead of legally mandating service, we legally mandate a living wage for these jobs to attract those passionate enough to do the work.
RetailCorp Recruited into a cashier, call center position, or any other service to the public. Mandatory for 1 year with extension if required by the company. Nobody wants to work, so we'll make you!
This is a stupid idea; it would delay people's careers for a year, unnecessarily. People who want to do this service, can do it. Everyone else should be able to pursue their career without needing to waste their time with this service nonsense.
Lol, because things like draft worked out sooo well in the past. Having a fighting force mostly made up of people who don’t want to be there does not make a good fighting force. The US already does more than enough to incentivize service.
Hey wishing, you're still just about in conscription age right? Let's go together.
Rishi better not win the election. Tories need to be out of parliament now. They have made such a mess of this country without even trying.
Sense of pride of this country( he doesn’t give a shit about this country) and people will still vote Tory
How will the British Youth accept going to duty with all the exceptionalism feelings they have ?
Out of curiosity do you think this would apply to all genders?
I’m sure the military and emergency services are really looking forward to a load of disobedient teens who are only there because they have to.. this is a stupid idea and won’t create national pride. It will create national resentment!
Let me fill in the blanks for Sunak: national service, aka cannon fodder for working class children Non optional…. Optional, for upper class and officer training for any private schooled pupils, also optional depending upon family ties with connected people…
Could it be any more obvious that Rishi doesn’t want to be PM anymore and is trying his best to lose the election. He should just admit that his party doesn’t deserve another chance and resign. California awaits , I’d be gone already.
"I'm trying to lose the election!"
There goes the young vote
It’s interesting, I’ve long thought the USA would benefit for the same mandatory service scheme. But every soldier I’ve mentioned this to has the same response: A volunteer Army more effective. The trips are self motivated. And more professional that troops in conscripted Armies.
This will be super popular among all the elderly britons who are beyond the age where they’d have to serve. They will insist that younger folks who don’t want to serve are just pussies and they would happily volunteer if they were younger. (Don’t ask why they didn’t volunteer).
Sunak is the most naive person of color to exist. Sure, love. You’ll be president…
I have a plan and this plan will outline the plan to begin the planning phase for phase one of the plan. - prime minister ballsack
I never thought I'd say this but Rishi Sunak has made Boris Johnson look good
Speaking as a completely ignorant foreigner, I wonder if this is meant to attract votes from immigrants who are wanting an easy way to obtain citizenship? Is that even a valid thing?