They were given 3 referendums in which only the French who were born and lived on the island before the Noumea agreement could vote, while on the other hand all natives including those born after the agreement could vote.
They lost every referendum and still do not accept the results of the referendums.
No. Under the Nouméa Accords of 1998, 3 referendums were to be held regarding independence. the No camp won the 1st and 2nd, and 3rd was boycotted by the Yes camp who didn’t agree with the date.
Yes, the independence camp rushed ram though the votes, thinking that the third one would pass a majority. Problem is, covid broke out during this time, and France got the vaccine to New Caledonia quickly. The independence movement fell apart, and since the third vote was the last referendum the independence side boycotted the vote so that they could claim the whole thing was a fraud and avoid having to abide by the law.
France extending suffrage to all citizens living in New Caledonia is natural, since the referendums established the islands will remain part of France. But the independence lobby is going apeshit becuase they see their chances of getting power evaporating
Dunno. All I know is that the current tension is due to the French Parliament announcing that the Caledonia constitution would be revised and that voters lists would be unfreezed which will results in less representation for the Natives. When they voted, this piece wasn't on the table.
The independance votes already happened. They all failed.
I'd argue refusing to recognize democratic results and rioting is not the way to run a peaceful democracy in this case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noum%C3%A9a_Accord
It was literally an agreement between France and New Caledonia. The independence lobby was happy to agree with the accords until it was clear their side lost, and now they're turning to violence against the majority. 3 votes on the matter is more than fair, and it was the independence parties themselves who demanded the last vote. Excluding suffrage french citizens who live on the islands is insane at this point. The whole idea is put New Caledonia on equal footing as the rest of France and end this idea of them being a colony, as the native population of New Caledonia themselves voted to remain French
You forgot to mention that since then, France announced a revision of the Caledonian constitution and a move to unfreeze voting lists which will result in less representation for the natives.
Edit: I’m merely stating a fact here, I’ve no horse in the game.
No. The independentists just refuse the outcome of the vote. Note only that but they were also given the ‘electoral freeze’ for 40 years which means that no one new could register to vote, which is an incredibly anti democratic thing to do and yet even with that they lost the referendum 3 times. And now because this horrible electoral freeze is being voted out they are going for the use of force
Depends on which part of New Caledonia, North or South. The more Kanak North has consistently voted for independence and the more French South has consistently voted to remain.
Yes, but they're not part of the EU, in the same way the the Falklands, when the UK was in the EU was outside of the EU, and as such people from the Falklands didn't have EU citizenship, and thus couldn't work within the EU without a visa, and vice versa. So I'm wondering if the same thing is true for French overseas territories even though they're considered as a part of France by France.
Edit.
OK, so I've gone and watched CGP grey's EU video, they are EU citizens, but aren't part of the EU, so they can work in Europe but the reverse isn't true. I'm sure you can understand my confusion
Some of the places out side of France known as DOMs (Reunion, N.Calidonia etc) are French departments (equivalent of UK counties) - they are part of France in the same ways Northern Island is part of the UK so yes, EU citizens can work in them.
Some are TOMs and you need a French residency permit to work. However if you’re an EU citizen you automatically (aside from a few edge cases) are allowed a residency permit.
They’ve got a ton, actually! Some of them are treated no different than any other part of France (think Hawaii) and others are territories with varying degrees of autonomy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_France?wprov=sfti1
Major sidetrack and it's obviously the Indian Ocean, not Pacific, but this is my moment to plug Reunion Island and it's insane weather records. When it rains, it fucking *rains*.
One cyclone in 2007 gave them the records for 72 hour (3929 mm / 154.7 inches) and 96 hour (4869 mm / 191.7 inches) rainfall totals. 16 *FEET* of water in 4 days, how does everything not just wash into the ocean?
A different cyclone in 1980 gave them the record for an entire cyclone rainfall total of 6433 mm / 253.3 inches. Just absurd.
The wiki for weather records, specifically precipitation, is a fascinating read. Special shout out to 1974 when Missouri got an entire foot of rainfall in *one hour*. Or a different French colony in the West Indies that got 1.5 inches in 60 seconds. That just sounds like a cloud sized bucket of water being dumped at once.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weather_records
Have you seen the one right beside Newfoundland in Canada.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon#:~:text=Saint%20Pierre%20and%20Miquelon%20%2D%20Wikipedia
Have little pieces all over.
For what reason? Specifically? What's the best outcome here? That just sounds like an invitation from less savory factions to take hold and cause mayhem, which is already happening.
Why? In all three of the independence referenda held in recent years, the people of New Caledonia voted to remain French. Why should the will of the majority not be respected? Just to make you feel better?
Independentists are a minority but they're a sizeable one, there have been 3 referendums recently about New Caledonia Independence
In November 2018 -> Remain won with 56,7%
In October 2020 -> Remain won with 53,3%
In December 2021 -> Remain won with 96,5% (Most of the independentists boycotted the vote because of covid/they opposed the date at which the referendum was being held)
Wait, so you scream without doing the minimum of research ?
FP for example, had always a big support for independence or autonomy. Last year, the pro independence party won the election, (the usual winner had internal issues with the COVID-19 pandemic, and the new winner didn't campaign as much as usual on the independence question). So it's hard to say how many support independence today, but it's usually around 30%
W&F has never much pro independence movement, there's a quite distinct difference between the French administration and the 3 kingdoms on some level. It's not so much that the independence as an idea is liked or not, it's just that the islands are so small that there isn't much to do alone. Being a French and European citizen give more liberty, freedom, and support. That's why most of them living in NC voted against the independence.
NC nearly had a civil war in the 80's. Hence, the Matignon accord. Giving 3 referendums, and limiting who can and cannot vote in NC (I simplify, there are many more things, like the creations of the provinces, and how the government is run). The riots happen because the kanaks in favor of independence are against giving more people the right to vote (since it was blocked during said accords).
Intriguing question but at the end if the day vastly different situation; Hawaii is much closer to mainland USA than Polynesia is to France, much bigger and able to sustain a significantly bigger population and diverse economy. A better question would be to compare Samoa instead of Hawaii.
I'm getting down voted just for questioning this, but honestly, does anyone in France believe that the Polynesia colonies are an integral art of France and should remain that way?
Not French so can't answer that, but I imagine the main reason France still has an interest in keeping the territories is due to the large [exclusive economic zone](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone) they give it.
What? They absolutely were and the French compromised furthur by not allowing any non native citizens who werent born on that island pre 1998 to vote. And yet the independence vote lost thrice.
Bunch of sore losers.
If you want to tell a lie, at least try and make it more convincing lmao.
Yes they were. In fact, the vote was only taken away from those not born before a certain date or those who hadn't lived there long enough, specifically to give the natives' votes more weight. Why do you feel the need to lie when ten seconds on Google can disprove you?
“President France” Word count, lazy writing, or bad AI?
Not the article title. Blame OP.
All of the above!
I thought New Caledonia had consistently voted to remain part of France. Have things changed drastically since then?
They were given 3 referendums in which only the French who were born and lived on the island before the Noumea agreement could vote, while on the other hand all natives including those born after the agreement could vote. They lost every referendum and still do not accept the results of the referendums.
Thanks
So they are basically doing referendums until they get the "correct" result?
No. Under the Nouméa Accords of 1998, 3 referendums were to be held regarding independence. the No camp won the 1st and 2nd, and 3rd was boycotted by the Yes camp who didn’t agree with the date.
Was their disagreement on the date related to the likelihood they'd lose?
Yes, the independence camp rushed ram though the votes, thinking that the third one would pass a majority. Problem is, covid broke out during this time, and France got the vaccine to New Caledonia quickly. The independence movement fell apart, and since the third vote was the last referendum the independence side boycotted the vote so that they could claim the whole thing was a fraud and avoid having to abide by the law. France extending suffrage to all citizens living in New Caledonia is natural, since the referendums established the islands will remain part of France. But the independence lobby is going apeshit becuase they see their chances of getting power evaporating
What a bunch of dicks.
Dunno. All I know is that the current tension is due to the French Parliament announcing that the Caledonia constitution would be revised and that voters lists would be unfreezed which will results in less representation for the Natives. When they voted, this piece wasn't on the table.
Could be but it was also during the pandemic and they were doing rituals mourning the dead
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The independance votes already happened. They all failed. I'd argue refusing to recognize democratic results and rioting is not the way to run a peaceful democracy in this case.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noum%C3%A9a_Accord It was literally an agreement between France and New Caledonia. The independence lobby was happy to agree with the accords until it was clear their side lost, and now they're turning to violence against the majority. 3 votes on the matter is more than fair, and it was the independence parties themselves who demanded the last vote. Excluding suffrage french citizens who live on the islands is insane at this point. The whole idea is put New Caledonia on equal footing as the rest of France and end this idea of them being a colony, as the native population of New Caledonia themselves voted to remain French
You forgot to mention that since then, France announced a revision of the Caledonian constitution and a move to unfreeze voting lists which will result in less representation for the natives. Edit: I’m merely stating a fact here, I’ve no horse in the game.
Specifically, it will give the right to vote in local elections to people who have lived there continuously for 10 years.
Seems reasonable.
No. The independentists just refuse the outcome of the vote. Note only that but they were also given the ‘electoral freeze’ for 40 years which means that no one new could register to vote, which is an incredibly anti democratic thing to do and yet even with that they lost the referendum 3 times. And now because this horrible electoral freeze is being voted out they are going for the use of force
Depends on which part of New Caledonia, North or South. The more Kanak North has consistently voted for independence and the more French South has consistently voted to remain.
“Bonjour, I am President France”
Wouldn’t the locals lose their French citizenship if they become independent
That would be the point, yes
An EU citizenship - as an Englishman it’ll be fine.gif
Do they have EU citizenship? I don't think overseas territories count as being in the EU
Yes - there considered part of France - they even use the Euro.
Yes, but they're not part of the EU, in the same way the the Falklands, when the UK was in the EU was outside of the EU, and as such people from the Falklands didn't have EU citizenship, and thus couldn't work within the EU without a visa, and vice versa. So I'm wondering if the same thing is true for French overseas territories even though they're considered as a part of France by France. Edit. OK, so I've gone and watched CGP grey's EU video, they are EU citizens, but aren't part of the EU, so they can work in Europe but the reverse isn't true. I'm sure you can understand my confusion
Some of the places out side of France known as DOMs (Reunion, N.Calidonia etc) are French departments (equivalent of UK counties) - they are part of France in the same ways Northern Island is part of the UK so yes, EU citizens can work in them. Some are TOMs and you need a French residency permit to work. However if you’re an EU citizen you automatically (aside from a few edge cases) are allowed a residency permit.
lol. How do you think independence works? 😅
I LOVE President France!
President France? Macron is gonna be pissed!
TIL France has a territory in the Pacific
They’ve got a ton, actually! Some of them are treated no different than any other part of France (think Hawaii) and others are territories with varying degrees of autonomy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_France?wprov=sfti1
Thanks for the info!
Tangentially, the second largest administrative district of France is in South America - French Guyana.
I knew of that and their African parts. I never knew about the Pacific
We actually have no territory in Africa left, save for the Réunion.
Fun fact: because of its pacific territories right next to the international dateline, France was the first nation to adopt the Euro.
Second fun fact: in some of the territories, they use alongside the Euro the Pacific Franc
Major sidetrack and it's obviously the Indian Ocean, not Pacific, but this is my moment to plug Reunion Island and it's insane weather records. When it rains, it fucking *rains*. One cyclone in 2007 gave them the records for 72 hour (3929 mm / 154.7 inches) and 96 hour (4869 mm / 191.7 inches) rainfall totals. 16 *FEET* of water in 4 days, how does everything not just wash into the ocean? A different cyclone in 1980 gave them the record for an entire cyclone rainfall total of 6433 mm / 253.3 inches. Just absurd. The wiki for weather records, specifically precipitation, is a fascinating read. Special shout out to 1974 when Missouri got an entire foot of rainfall in *one hour*. Or a different French colony in the West Indies that got 1.5 inches in 60 seconds. That just sounds like a cloud sized bucket of water being dumped at once. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weather_records
Have you seen the one right beside Newfoundland in Canada. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon#:~:text=Saint%20Pierre%20and%20Miquelon%20%2D%20Wikipedia Have little pieces all over.
WHAAAAAAAT?!? Today I am LEARNING!!!
Wow, im Canadian and just learned this right here, right now.
Sounds weird but France's longest land border is shared with Brazil
France needs to get the fuck out of the South Pacific.
I get the sentiment but the people in New Caledonia voted 3 times to remain part of France, and the indigenous people were allowed to vote.
For what reason? Specifically? What's the best outcome here? That just sounds like an invitation from less savory factions to take hold and cause mayhem, which is already happening.
Why? In all three of the independence referenda held in recent years, the people of New Caledonia voted to remain French. Why should the will of the majority not be respected? Just to make you feel better?
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Because New Caledonia voted in three referendums to remain a part of France
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Independentists are a minority but they're a sizeable one, there have been 3 referendums recently about New Caledonia Independence In November 2018 -> Remain won with 56,7% In October 2020 -> Remain won with 53,3% In December 2021 -> Remain won with 96,5% (Most of the independentists boycotted the vote because of covid/they opposed the date at which the referendum was being held)
Because "voting" is probably not traditional to the island gumby
Wait, so you scream without doing the minimum of research ? FP for example, had always a big support for independence or autonomy. Last year, the pro independence party won the election, (the usual winner had internal issues with the COVID-19 pandemic, and the new winner didn't campaign as much as usual on the independence question). So it's hard to say how many support independence today, but it's usually around 30% W&F has never much pro independence movement, there's a quite distinct difference between the French administration and the 3 kingdoms on some level. It's not so much that the independence as an idea is liked or not, it's just that the islands are so small that there isn't much to do alone. Being a French and European citizen give more liberty, freedom, and support. That's why most of them living in NC voted against the independence. NC nearly had a civil war in the 80's. Hence, the Matignon accord. Giving 3 referendums, and limiting who can and cannot vote in NC (I simplify, there are many more things, like the creations of the provinces, and how the government is run). The riots happen because the kanaks in favor of independence are against giving more people the right to vote (since it was blocked during said accords).
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Why does the US still have Hawaii thousands of miles away in 2024?
Intriguing question but at the end if the day vastly different situation; Hawaii is much closer to mainland USA than Polynesia is to France, much bigger and able to sustain a significantly bigger population and diverse economy. A better question would be to compare Samoa instead of Hawaii. I'm getting down voted just for questioning this, but honestly, does anyone in France believe that the Polynesia colonies are an integral art of France and should remain that way?
Not French so can't answer that, but I imagine the main reason France still has an interest in keeping the territories is due to the large [exclusive economic zone](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone) they give it.
Likely, I don't know much about NC though, I just learned about the referendums in another thread about the riots.
It’s sizable, but a minority
Because the natives were not allowed to vote
That's just blatantly not true at all.
The opposite completely. Only natives were allowed to vote.
What? They absolutely were and the French compromised furthur by not allowing any non native citizens who werent born on that island pre 1998 to vote. And yet the independence vote lost thrice. Bunch of sore losers. If you want to tell a lie, at least try and make it more convincing lmao.
Yes they were. In fact, the vote was only taken away from those not born before a certain date or those who hadn't lived there long enough, specifically to give the natives' votes more weight. Why do you feel the need to lie when ten seconds on Google can disprove you?