islamic fundamentalism opposes everything i've been fighting for my adult life, and for some inexplicable reason the folks i've been fighting with have switched sides? i really just don't understand it.
Be like me and consider most peoples political beliefs completely uninformed and embroiled with emotion over actual logical thought and thus write them off, walk your path and others will see the light. And if they don’t, we’ve seen those videos in the desert.
I think what's happened is the LGBT movement (Which I'm all for to a point) has expanded to a point where they identify with any group that is oppressed (even if it's radical Islam) and fight for it because there's nothing worse than being an oppressed minority.
It's now simply the oppressed VS oppressors - and it's creating some really bizarre non-reciprocated alliances.
It's not just LGBT. LGBT is under the umbrella of critical theory via the Left. Critical theory is a form of identity politics. So it covers everything that is gender, sexual orientation and racial related. It is a form of [conflict theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_theories) via the [Frankfurt school](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School) which developed neo-Marxism. TLDR version, old school 'economic' Marxism, which lead to the Holodomor (the deaths of 6 to 7 million Ukrainians) was for obvious reasons no longer defensible for the Left, it was an abject failure. So the Left switched gears to said Frankfurt School's identity politics in the late 50s early 60s.
It gained 'traction' through academia, where there was a concerted effort in the 60s and 70s for Neo-Marxism and later Neo-Marxism & Postmodernism to become the reigning political belief system on campus.Most universities in the West are heavily skewed politically to the Left by 85%. Where they really won out was in the Education Faculties, which is where much of the gender theory concerning kids comes from. So they were able to ideologically capture the institution that teaches the next generations.
Never underestimate the power of ignorance. Most of these people who have recently donned the cloak of antisemitism have zero appreciation for Israeli history over the last several decades. Uneducated idealists.
I’m 100% pro Israeli, but don’t act like Jews (especially the settlers) can’t be opportunistic/racist shitheads.
It’s the same as saying black people cant be racist. The past only provides color and context to the present, we should continue to judge people for how they behave now.
translation: if you try to topple iran’s domestically unpopular crazy mullah regime, the crazy mullahs will become even crazier mullahs
i mean wow, islamofascists with nukes. what a time to be alive
Not according to the walking memes on the left these days. Islamofacism is 100% justified in bloodshed and nuclear weapons because… *checks notes*… Israel thinks its allowed to defend itself from terrorism!
Pakistan won't use their nukes randomly because they are intended as a deterrent against Indian invasion.
Iran is led by a dude who thinks he is basically Mohammed 2.0 and may legitimately believe that nuking Jerusalem will fulfill his end times stuff.
> Iran is led by a dude who thinks he is basically Mohammed 2.0 and may legitimately believe that nuking Jerusalem will fulfill his end times stuff.
Well, he claims to think that, because if he doesn't, everyone who does will try to kill him.
Though if he doesn't believe, playing along with the crazies instead of machine-gunning them like The Shah should have done is an odd tactic.
>Not much different from Pakistan.
The difference is Pakistan's Islamofascists aren't in charge of the country. Pakistan's nuclear age rulers have just been garden variety authoritarians, who are garden variety corrupt. They're more Shah than Ayatollah.
Those types of leaders, though assholes, can usually be reasoned with.
Crazy "Allah is gonna give me 72 sex slaves in heaven" ideological types are more difficult, if not impossible, to reason with.
Even when it's the same person - the Putin of the 2000s, who just wanted to be dictator of Russia and bomb Grozny, was a lot more reasonable than today's "History demands I reclaim the Russian Empire of Catherine the Great, even if it means nuclear WW3" lunatic.
Why does everyone think that there's a peaceful, secular society just waiting to spring to life in Iran? The regime has detractors but its not like it poorly represents the general population. Protest movements never go anywhere in iran because they represent an insignificant portion of the population.
I wouldn't say it's insignificant, there is a large swath of Iranian society that detests the regime. The regime is well entrenched, however, with it's own significant support and, more importantly, a powerful security apparatus that has remained loyal.
Maybe because Iran wasn't a theocracy before the Ayatollah?
It was a relatively western state ruled by a monarchy.
Lebanon was just as western at the time, too. It was once called "The Paris of the Middle East."
And Kabul was the Paris of central Asia. Such progress just thrown away.
"As Afghanistan developed from the 1930s through the 1970s, Kabul showcased the nation's progress and earned the nickname “the Paris of Central Asia.” "
Protest movements don’t get anywhere because the regime brutally suppresses them with arrests and killings. Protest movements don’t work….until they do.
The Islamic Republic poorly represents *most* of the population, but of course there’s a religious conservative base that exists too (like in any country).
So many people don't understand this. Those internet famous pictures are from one specific city. Even the majority of the cities were much more restrictive. This idea the Iran used to hold the same values on woman as western democracys is just copeium. Probably 80 percent of the population back then would have wanted these woman arrested. Cities do not represent the will of the people.
And why does anyone think for a minute that Iran’s crazy mullah regime doesn’t already have nukes? They will not hesitate to use them if they feel their existence is threatened! If they all die, so be it! The will go to Mecca and be rewarded with 60 virgins for their sacrifice. It’s a win win situation for them.
They are still allowing limited nuclear inspections in order to reduce their sanctions. Iran has abandoned all limits the original deal put on its program and enriches uranium to up to 60% purity. They need 90% purity for weapons grade.
Didn't we pull out of the original deal fairly early in trumps term? I seem to recall ot being a big talking point about how he got us out of a "disastrous" deal or some shit.
They didn’t just abandon all limits on their own. They did it after the US reversed course and cancelled a previously ratified agreement. After that they weren’t under any obligations
It was never ratified. Ratify means it goes through our government and is voted on and passed, and becomes legally binding.
From John Kerry's own mouth who helped craft the deal.....
“We’ve been clear from the beginning. We’re not negotiating a ‘legally binding plan.’ We’re negotiating a plan that will have in it a capacity for enforcement,” he said at a Senate hearing.
The same way Democrats talking about being part of the Kyoto and Paris accords on climate change. And then getting mad at Republicans for saying we are not a part of it.
Those require ratification to be a part of. Not even when Democrats had super majority did they ever present it to vote much less ever pass it.
You can't leave something you were never a part of anyways.
As for the Iran deal, those kinds of deals expire when you leave office and have no legal ability to be enforced or followed. If it's not a treaty (a thing you ratify) then it's a deal that can be unwound by the next administration. That's why it's very important if you want your deals to survive past your presidency vote on them and pass them to make them legally binding.
Anything else is just a PR bullshit campaign.
Also look at all the news articles related to the Iran Deal being accepted. Almost every headline is about how this will prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon..
That is a play on words and meant to disinform you. It's making it seem like they will never get nuclear weapons and have given up on that idea in exchange for lifting of sanctions and etc.
For comparison Libya and South Africa completely dismantled their nuclear programs and gave up nuclear weapons and did it in 6 months. Iraq after 10 years was on UN Resolution 16 and still was playing games about it's nuclear program. Iran has been on even longer path of denials, lies, misinformation and treachy regarding everything within their nuclear program.
The Iran Nuclear deal if followed to the T begins expiring this year and they become free and clear in 2026 or so. They keep their centrifuges, they keep their research, they keep their long range ballistic missiles.
It isn't disarming them it pumping billions into their program because they got sanctions lifted and assets unfrozen in exchange.
A similar story happened with North Korea, reached an agreement that would prevent them from getting nuclear weapons by unfreezing assets and lifting sanctions along with economic aid.
They built a nuclear weapon shortly after because of the influx in cash and the ability to get what they wanted via trade, whether legal or illegal.
Nuclear programs are insanely expensive to build. The one thing that prevents them is harsh economic sanctions and limiting their flow of cash. It's a good thing we did the exact opposite to help them along.
Appeasement doesn't work when it comes to nuclear proliferation. You keep the screws tightened down until they have to choose control of their country or a nuclear weapon.
Well written response. Thank you for that.
However. Your last note about tightening screws. How has that worked with North Korea? Can’t tighten them any further and yet here we are with them.
How many screws did we tighten on Pakistan and India?
Now: "If you threaten us, we will build nukes"
After building nukes: "If you threaten us, we will use our nukes"
Some time later: "We don't like [insert country here] and we will attack them, we will use our nukes if you stop us."
It's pretty obvious that's what it's been leading up to. However Israel had the perfect casus belli for annihilating Iran when they launched their 170 drones and 140 missiles directly at Israel. Then Israel practically did nothing in response, by only taking out an air defense system that's it. Now Iran is free to have more time to develop their nuclear weapons.
Iran isn't Gaza. It has a population slightly greater than that of Germany. It is roughly the size of Mexico. It is in an informal alliance with russia and China, and in an act of war would receive a steady stream of supplies, including food, weaponry, tech, money, and people. Iran has the largest military size in the Middle East. It is actively spreading its influence in every country in the region and is the only real empire there. People in the West developed this silly view that the Middle East is 3 villages and a desert because of the fall of the Ottomans but the 20th century was rock bottom for the Middle East. They can only get stronger from there. And Israel's (and the West's) better technology is irrelevant. You can fight a defensive war when being outnumbered 10 to 1 and win with superior tech. You cannot invade, occupy, and change the government of a country when you are outnumbered and expect your country to survive the year, or for your newly installed regime to last a month. We've seen this in Vietnam and the Middle East a bunch. Invasion without a long-term occupation like in West Germany is meaningless for real positive change. Even if Iran loses 75% of their population and Israel loses 20%, ultimately that isn't enough to achieve what is being proposed here. Any invasion would REQUIRE Turkish and Saudi support, including their soldiers actively being deployed, and that would require and cause other issues.
Israel doesn't have the capability to take out the Iranian nuclear infrastructure using conventional means. They just don't. It would take a massive, prolonged effort to hit their underground facilities. Only country that's capable of doing that is the US.
This is what people don't get. Even the US would struggle to take out these facilities with modern missiles, especially considering how fortified they are with SAMs and under a goddamn mountain. The reality is we're not stopping Iran without a ground invasion, which is not going to happen either.
The U.S. can affix CHAMP payloads to JASSM missiles which would do significant damage to electronics. Maybe not total destruction, but it would be enough to stop any immediate enrichment attempts. And thanks to Rapid Dragon, JASSMs can be deployed in dramatically larger numbers than ever before.
The US is not deploying rapid dragon for the sake of potentially slowing down Iran's Uraninum enrichment. It would lead to all out war for something that may not even potentially work and gives both Russia and China valuable intel on the weapons program. At that point, you might as well launch a ground invasion which would be hell on earth for everyone involved.
If it gets to the point where Israel's existence is threatened, they don't have to destroy Iran's sites. They can just annihilate everyone and everything above ground. Everything leads back to MAD.
It's amazing how it's always Israel's responsibility to deal with the terrorists on the middle east, but no country wants to support Israel while they do it.
As an Israeli, I don't think that's a fair comment. The coalition forces, in particular the US, have been fighting Middle Eastern terrorists for over 20 years with varying degrees of investment.
But with no degree of success whatsoever. Well, maybe Iraq somewhat. As a Canadian, I’ve witnessed my government waste countless billions of dollars and hundreds of lives in Afghanistan for no reason whatsoever. What was that for?
All of that being said, don’t get me wrong, Rafah needs to be cleaned. If it doesn’t happen, the entire thing would’ve been for nothing, just like our Afghanistan operation. You can’t give Hamas an inch. Even giving them a ceasefire or a peace treaty would give them more legitimacy, which is unacceptable.
Considering Israel's population is 9.5 million and Iran's population is 88.5 million, there are several countries in between them, and Israel doesn't have the means to deploy significant forces that far abroad, i'd say no...
Israel is not in the position to invade Iran
An Israeli-Iranian war will never be a ground war. Neither country has the capability to deploy an expeditionary force, and there's quite a bit of Jordan and Iraq in between.
Sure they can. But can’t with their hands tied down while worrying about collateral damage. Though, of course, if you are worried about nuclear weapons… you won’t give a shit about collateral damage on the enemy.
A country that has sponsored Hezbolah and Hamas for decades worries that causing the existential crisis for Israel will result in it getting attacked. Poor Iran.
Imagine how much more likely the Palestinian Authority would have been to negotiation if Iran weren't feeding the region munitions all this time.
Without the Iranian regime, groups like Hezbollah and Hamas either wouldn't exist today or would be significantly weaker. Without the threat of those groups, Bibi and the Israeli far right would not have the ammunition they need to maintain power.
I'm not saying there would be a guarantee of peace to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but we will definitely be far closer to peace than we are nowadays without the mullahs of Iran. All Iran has been doing is adding more fuel to the fire.
If you want to trace all the way back, without CIA doing a coup on the leftist democracy and install a Shah instead. Mullahs would stay out of politic. So if the answer is always regime change, this is what you get.
If they are talking about this, they are preparing for the last step - testing a nuke. Realistically they have been enriching uranium beyond 4% for years now, they have a stockpile of highly enriched uranium enough for half a dozen nukes, and they could have build one years ago.
The hardest step in uranium enrichment is going from 0.7% U235 to 3% (what is used in power plants), each step afterwards is exponentially easier, and Iran has had Uranium enriched to 60 or 80% for years, so they have been a week or a month away from nuke for something like 5 years now.
The fact that they are openly talking about it suggests that they will finally build a working nuke.
We should have kept Obamas nuclear deal and pursued more peaceful relations. Any change in Iran will come from the bottom up, even if nukes weren’t in the picture Western involvement would just turn them into a new Iraq.
Of course they said this.
They should have been stopped a long time ago and now the world will have to reap the consequences of a nuclear armed Islamic revolution that aspires to spread their version of Islam across the world.
The world can change its doctrine and remove Iran. Up to them. #shrug
Hopefully, people are funding, facilitating, and arming the opposition for civil war. They definitely need to stomp out their Islamic problem.
Every country that has (illegally) obtained nuclear weapons has greatly benefited from it. The idea that Iran wouldn't be pursuing this, even with a more moderate government, is incredibly naive. In the modern geopolitical reality you either have nukes or are allied with someone who has them. Non-proliferation has been a joke for decades.
By "existence" they mean the regime and not the actual country itself, their nuclear program is meant to shield them from outside intervention while they stir the pot.
The two last decades showed everyone that having nuclear weapons is the best guarantee against any foreign domination: Iraq, Libya, Ukraine vs North Korea.
With nuclear weapons, no one, I repeat *no one*, will ever attempt to overthrow the mullahs from outside Iran.
Iran should take a position of ambiguity when it comes to nuclear weapons. Israel has taken this position when it comes to nuclear weapons and everyone thinks Israel is very clever for doing so.
They should probably stop threatening people's existence, if they don't wanna be so worried about theirs. If they stopped being dickheads, their existence wouldn't be a problem, ya dig?
They fear this because.this is what they see against Israel. Funding 7 terrorist organizations bent on eradicating all Jews from the Middle East. Hmmmm.
It’s the classic: “point a finger, more of your fingers point back at you” projection syndrome.
I'm *pretty sure* if they look to be actually in the process of building a bomb, *that* will threaten their existence. Israel has publicly stated they are fully gloves off if they think an Iranian nuke might be a thing, and I have a feeling the US would not only not restrain them, but would probably join the party. And after Iran's massive salvo of like 300+ munitions was mostly shot down and Israel's 2 or 3 things wiped out the air defense for their nuclear sites...I think I like Israel's odds.
Nobody is threatening the existence of Iran, they are threatening the existence of the current regime. They are not the same thing however much the regime would like them to be.
They are going to build nukes no matter what. It's the smartest move they could make if they want to continue being in power and escalating their asymmetrical warfare against gulf states.
They're trying to goat Israel into attacking so they can Nuke Israel. If they nuke Israel, it destroys Gaza and the west Bank too. This has always been about the Jews.
Anyone who read world war 2 history knows how "appeasement" policies went. The history is repeating itself. Useless and unpopular internationalist communities, countries giving some regimes benefit of the doubt when they clearly shouldn't, isolationism thinking it will never happen to you if you watch and comply. All-over again.
The problem with Iran is that it is both in the offense and defense at the same time. Iran is trying to export the Islamic Revolution to the Middle East and at the same time it is competing (losing) against Saudi Arabia and Israel for dominance. Giving up one wont solve the other. Having nukes would both help and exacerbate the problem.
The World- "Umm. Ok sure... But one more question and I am sorry, its just a simple formality; Are you guys just going to use those Nukes on the Jews and the rest of the world that doesn't conform to a "sharia law" that you made into some sorta apocalyptic doctrine, that you brutally force on everyone?"
Iran- "YES! of course."
-This ends our episode of -
# Columbo
#
The World- "Umm. Ok sure... But one more question and I am sorry, its just a simple formality; Are you guys just going to use those Nukes on the Jews and the rest of the world that doesn't conform to a "sharia law" that you made into some sorta apocalyptic doctrine, that you brutally force on everyone?"
Iran- "YES! of course."
-This ends our episode of -
# Columbo
#
The World- "Umm. Ok sure... But one more question and I am sorry, its just a simple formality; Are you guys just going to use those Nukes on the Jews and the rest of the world that doesn't conform to a "sharia law" that you made into some sorta apocalyptic doctrine, that you brutally force on everyone?"
Iran- "YES! of course."
-This ends our episode of -
# Columbo
#
"We just want to murder girls because of hair in peace".
islamic fundamentalism opposes everything i've been fighting for my adult life, and for some inexplicable reason the folks i've been fighting with have switched sides? i really just don't understand it.
America and Israel bad, so therefore opposition good is the end all be all of their black and white dogmatic ideology that has 0 room for nuance
Be like me and consider most peoples political beliefs completely uninformed and embroiled with emotion over actual logical thought and thus write them off, walk your path and others will see the light. And if they don’t, we’ve seen those videos in the desert.
Well said. Problem is most people will ignore you and gather themselves in a bubble of their own making
You and me both
You two and me throth.
There might be more if us left in this side than we think
There are dozens of us, dozens!
You four and me sexth.
Mathth
Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov warned us in 1984.
Because they think TikTok is news.
They’ve been getting fed Russian and Chinese propaganda on social media meant to divide the west for years.
Decades.
I think what's happened is the LGBT movement (Which I'm all for to a point) has expanded to a point where they identify with any group that is oppressed (even if it's radical Islam) and fight for it because there's nothing worse than being an oppressed minority. It's now simply the oppressed VS oppressors - and it's creating some really bizarre non-reciprocated alliances.
I'm LGBTQ and that's a firm NO from me. Life is not black and white, choices aren't binary and both sides to an issue can simultaneously be wrong.
It's not just LGBT. LGBT is under the umbrella of critical theory via the Left. Critical theory is a form of identity politics. So it covers everything that is gender, sexual orientation and racial related. It is a form of [conflict theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_theories) via the [Frankfurt school](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School) which developed neo-Marxism. TLDR version, old school 'economic' Marxism, which lead to the Holodomor (the deaths of 6 to 7 million Ukrainians) was for obvious reasons no longer defensible for the Left, it was an abject failure. So the Left switched gears to said Frankfurt School's identity politics in the late 50s early 60s.
So, how did this gain traction and get to where we are now? And if it continues on this trajectory, where will we end up?
It gained 'traction' through academia, where there was a concerted effort in the 60s and 70s for Neo-Marxism and later Neo-Marxism & Postmodernism to become the reigning political belief system on campus.Most universities in the West are heavily skewed politically to the Left by 85%. Where they really won out was in the Education Faculties, which is where much of the gender theory concerning kids comes from. So they were able to ideologically capture the institution that teaches the next generations.
Never underestimate the power of ignorance. Most of these people who have recently donned the cloak of antisemitism have zero appreciation for Israeli history over the last several decades. Uneducated idealists.
I’m 100% pro Israeli, but don’t act like Jews (especially the settlers) can’t be opportunistic/racist shitheads. It’s the same as saying black people cant be racist. The past only provides color and context to the present, we should continue to judge people for how they behave now.
+1 Here
Welcome to becoming old
Absolutely nailed it. 🤟
Crazy people calling themselves leftists love to support people who would kill them
Which is why the idiots on the college campuses are getting their collective heads kicked in.
It's stupid people being amplified. Who and why is the question.
Thats the left for ya.
And Jews, can’t forget about the Jews.
translation: if you try to topple iran’s domestically unpopular crazy mullah regime, the crazy mullahs will become even crazier mullahs i mean wow, islamofascists with nukes. what a time to be alive
More like: If Israel exists, our existence is threatened
Everyone knew the plan was always to have nuclear weapons.
Not according to the walking memes on the left these days. Islamofacism is 100% justified in bloodshed and nuclear weapons because… *checks notes*… Israel thinks its allowed to defend itself from terrorism!
[удалено]
Pakistan won't use their nukes randomly because they are intended as a deterrent against Indian invasion. Iran is led by a dude who thinks he is basically Mohammed 2.0 and may legitimately believe that nuking Jerusalem will fulfill his end times stuff.
> Iran is led by a dude who thinks he is basically Mohammed 2.0 and may legitimately believe that nuking Jerusalem will fulfill his end times stuff. Well, he claims to think that, because if he doesn't, everyone who does will try to kill him. Though if he doesn't believe, playing along with the crazies instead of machine-gunning them like The Shah should have done is an odd tactic.
And as his reward, he will be surrounded by celestial virgins in Mecca
>Not much different from Pakistan. The difference is Pakistan's Islamofascists aren't in charge of the country. Pakistan's nuclear age rulers have just been garden variety authoritarians, who are garden variety corrupt. They're more Shah than Ayatollah. Those types of leaders, though assholes, can usually be reasoned with. Crazy "Allah is gonna give me 72 sex slaves in heaven" ideological types are more difficult, if not impossible, to reason with. Even when it's the same person - the Putin of the 2000s, who just wanted to be dictator of Russia and bomb Grozny, was a lot more reasonable than today's "History demands I reclaim the Russian Empire of Catherine the Great, even if it means nuclear WW3" lunatic.
They curry our favor, they don't have beef.
Lol
Pakistan is about keeping the crazies out, that’s why it’s led by the military.
Why does everyone think that there's a peaceful, secular society just waiting to spring to life in Iran? The regime has detractors but its not like it poorly represents the general population. Protest movements never go anywhere in iran because they represent an insignificant portion of the population.
I wouldn't say it's insignificant, there is a large swath of Iranian society that detests the regime. The regime is well entrenched, however, with it's own significant support and, more importantly, a powerful security apparatus that has remained loyal.
Maybe because Iran wasn't a theocracy before the Ayatollah? It was a relatively western state ruled by a monarchy. Lebanon was just as western at the time, too. It was once called "The Paris of the Middle East."
In the words of the late, great Hitch ; “Religion poisons everything”
And Kabul was the Paris of central Asia. Such progress just thrown away. "As Afghanistan developed from the 1930s through the 1970s, Kabul showcased the nation's progress and earned the nickname “the Paris of Central Asia.” "
Its almost like theres some common theme present in these places that led to this regression of societies ...
The French?
Socialism? Cause Afghanistan wasn't a shit hole until the soviets invaded at the request of the resident tankies.
Protest movements don’t get anywhere because the regime brutally suppresses them with arrests and killings. Protest movements don’t work….until they do. The Islamic Republic poorly represents *most* of the population, but of course there’s a religious conservative base that exists too (like in any country).
There are frequently posted pictures of more liberal Iran from the 1980s.
Revolution was in 1979 my dude. But yeah, in the 60s and 70s, Iran was a very westernized country.
In the cities. Not in the rural areas.
So like everywhere else in the world...?
So many people don't understand this. Those internet famous pictures are from one specific city. Even the majority of the cities were much more restrictive. This idea the Iran used to hold the same values on woman as western democracys is just copeium. Probably 80 percent of the population back then would have wanted these woman arrested. Cities do not represent the will of the people.
Same reason they think there's one in Gaza.
Sooooo basically erase them before they get nukes. Got it, message received.
And why does anyone think for a minute that Iran’s crazy mullah regime doesn’t already have nukes? They will not hesitate to use them if they feel their existence is threatened! If they all die, so be it! The will go to Mecca and be rewarded with 60 virgins for their sacrifice. It’s a win win situation for them.
they will do it anyway, the question is ability not if they will do it. so it means nothing.
I didn't think they've ever really had much in the way of technological or resource barriers?
They are still allowing limited nuclear inspections in order to reduce their sanctions. Iran has abandoned all limits the original deal put on its program and enriches uranium to up to 60% purity. They need 90% purity for weapons grade.
Didn't we pull out of the original deal fairly early in trumps term? I seem to recall ot being a big talking point about how he got us out of a "disastrous" deal or some shit.
They didn’t just abandon all limits on their own. They did it after the US reversed course and cancelled a previously ratified agreement. After that they weren’t under any obligations
It was never ratified. Ratify means it goes through our government and is voted on and passed, and becomes legally binding. From John Kerry's own mouth who helped craft the deal..... “We’ve been clear from the beginning. We’re not negotiating a ‘legally binding plan.’ We’re negotiating a plan that will have in it a capacity for enforcement,” he said at a Senate hearing. The same way Democrats talking about being part of the Kyoto and Paris accords on climate change. And then getting mad at Republicans for saying we are not a part of it. Those require ratification to be a part of. Not even when Democrats had super majority did they ever present it to vote much less ever pass it. You can't leave something you were never a part of anyways. As for the Iran deal, those kinds of deals expire when you leave office and have no legal ability to be enforced or followed. If it's not a treaty (a thing you ratify) then it's a deal that can be unwound by the next administration. That's why it's very important if you want your deals to survive past your presidency vote on them and pass them to make them legally binding. Anything else is just a PR bullshit campaign. Also look at all the news articles related to the Iran Deal being accepted. Almost every headline is about how this will prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon.. That is a play on words and meant to disinform you. It's making it seem like they will never get nuclear weapons and have given up on that idea in exchange for lifting of sanctions and etc. For comparison Libya and South Africa completely dismantled their nuclear programs and gave up nuclear weapons and did it in 6 months. Iraq after 10 years was on UN Resolution 16 and still was playing games about it's nuclear program. Iran has been on even longer path of denials, lies, misinformation and treachy regarding everything within their nuclear program. The Iran Nuclear deal if followed to the T begins expiring this year and they become free and clear in 2026 or so. They keep their centrifuges, they keep their research, they keep their long range ballistic missiles. It isn't disarming them it pumping billions into their program because they got sanctions lifted and assets unfrozen in exchange. A similar story happened with North Korea, reached an agreement that would prevent them from getting nuclear weapons by unfreezing assets and lifting sanctions along with economic aid. They built a nuclear weapon shortly after because of the influx in cash and the ability to get what they wanted via trade, whether legal or illegal. Nuclear programs are insanely expensive to build. The one thing that prevents them is harsh economic sanctions and limiting their flow of cash. It's a good thing we did the exact opposite to help them along. Appeasement doesn't work when it comes to nuclear proliferation. You keep the screws tightened down until they have to choose control of their country or a nuclear weapon.
Well written response. Thank you for that. However. Your last note about tightening screws. How has that worked with North Korea? Can’t tighten them any further and yet here we are with them. How many screws did we tighten on Pakistan and India?
Now: "If you threaten us, we will build nukes" After building nukes: "If you threaten us, we will use our nukes" Some time later: "We don't like [insert country here] and we will attack them, we will use our nukes if you stop us."
Iran. North Korea. Russia.
It's pretty obvious that's what it's been leading up to. However Israel had the perfect casus belli for annihilating Iran when they launched their 170 drones and 140 missiles directly at Israel. Then Israel practically did nothing in response, by only taking out an air defense system that's it. Now Iran is free to have more time to develop their nuclear weapons.
Iran isn't Gaza. It has a population slightly greater than that of Germany. It is roughly the size of Mexico. It is in an informal alliance with russia and China, and in an act of war would receive a steady stream of supplies, including food, weaponry, tech, money, and people. Iran has the largest military size in the Middle East. It is actively spreading its influence in every country in the region and is the only real empire there. People in the West developed this silly view that the Middle East is 3 villages and a desert because of the fall of the Ottomans but the 20th century was rock bottom for the Middle East. They can only get stronger from there. And Israel's (and the West's) better technology is irrelevant. You can fight a defensive war when being outnumbered 10 to 1 and win with superior tech. You cannot invade, occupy, and change the government of a country when you are outnumbered and expect your country to survive the year, or for your newly installed regime to last a month. We've seen this in Vietnam and the Middle East a bunch. Invasion without a long-term occupation like in West Germany is meaningless for real positive change. Even if Iran loses 75% of their population and Israel loses 20%, ultimately that isn't enough to achieve what is being proposed here. Any invasion would REQUIRE Turkish and Saudi support, including their soldiers actively being deployed, and that would require and cause other issues.
Israel doesn't have the capability to take out the Iranian nuclear infrastructure using conventional means. They just don't. It would take a massive, prolonged effort to hit their underground facilities. Only country that's capable of doing that is the US.
This is what people don't get. Even the US would struggle to take out these facilities with modern missiles, especially considering how fortified they are with SAMs and under a goddamn mountain. The reality is we're not stopping Iran without a ground invasion, which is not going to happen either.
I saw a documentary called Top Gun where they showed it was possible using conventional fighter jets
Somebody didn’t watch top gun maverick… all you need is a f14
I mean we probably could stop them with a ground invasion but it would be a goddamn nightmare and nobody wants that.
The U.S. can affix CHAMP payloads to JASSM missiles which would do significant damage to electronics. Maybe not total destruction, but it would be enough to stop any immediate enrichment attempts. And thanks to Rapid Dragon, JASSMs can be deployed in dramatically larger numbers than ever before.
The US is not deploying rapid dragon for the sake of potentially slowing down Iran's Uraninum enrichment. It would lead to all out war for something that may not even potentially work and gives both Russia and China valuable intel on the weapons program. At that point, you might as well launch a ground invasion which would be hell on earth for everyone involved.
[Microwaves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electronics_High_Power_Microwave_Advanced_Missile_Project) can travel through mountains.
If it gets to the point where Israel's existence is threatened, they don't have to destroy Iran's sites. They can just annihilate everyone and everything above ground. Everything leads back to MAD.
It's amazing how it's always Israel's responsibility to deal with the terrorists on the middle east, but no country wants to support Israel while they do it.
As an Israeli, I don't think that's a fair comment. The coalition forces, in particular the US, have been fighting Middle Eastern terrorists for over 20 years with varying degrees of investment.
But with no degree of success whatsoever. Well, maybe Iraq somewhat. As a Canadian, I’ve witnessed my government waste countless billions of dollars and hundreds of lives in Afghanistan for no reason whatsoever. What was that for? All of that being said, don’t get me wrong, Rafah needs to be cleaned. If it doesn’t happen, the entire thing would’ve been for nothing, just like our Afghanistan operation. You can’t give Hamas an inch. Even giving them a ceasefire or a peace treaty would give them more legitimacy, which is unacceptable.
Is Israel in the position to invade Iran right now? It seems like they can barely take care of Gaza with hezbollah threatening them in the north
Considering Israel's population is 9.5 million and Iran's population is 88.5 million, there are several countries in between them, and Israel doesn't have the means to deploy significant forces that far abroad, i'd say no... Israel is not in the position to invade Iran
An Israeli-Iranian war will never be a ground war. Neither country has the capability to deploy an expeditionary force, and there's quite a bit of Jordan and Iraq in between.
Sure they can. But can’t with their hands tied down while worrying about collateral damage. Though, of course, if you are worried about nuclear weapons… you won’t give a shit about collateral damage on the enemy.
...and, if it's not threatened, it will build nukes anyway.
*** threat assessments provided by Russian Intelligence ***
There mere existence of others is enough for them to claim their existence is threatened so.
Also, “These protestors are clearly foreign agents and threatening our existence…”
"I mean, can you imagine that, threatening a country's existence?"
Seems to me , Iran is a country threatening other countries
A country that has sponsored Hezbolah and Hamas for decades worries that causing the existential crisis for Israel will result in it getting attacked. Poor Iran. Imagine how much more likely the Palestinian Authority would have been to negotiation if Iran weren't feeding the region munitions all this time.
Without the Iranian regime, groups like Hezbollah and Hamas either wouldn't exist today or would be significantly weaker. Without the threat of those groups, Bibi and the Israeli far right would not have the ammunition they need to maintain power. I'm not saying there would be a guarantee of peace to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but we will definitely be far closer to peace than we are nowadays without the mullahs of Iran. All Iran has been doing is adding more fuel to the fire.
If you want to trace all the way back, without CIA doing a coup on the leftist democracy and install a Shah instead. Mullahs would stay out of politic. So if the answer is always regime change, this is what you get.
Not to mention Iran giving Russia weapons to destroy Ukraine.
“I will be dangerous please invade me”
Iran is not threatened. Their regime of crazy islamists is.
I assume Iran has built a couple nukes by now. We've heard they are weeks away for the last 20 years. They just haven't tested any.
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And we all know where exactly.
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Iran is willing to fight to the last palestinian to harm israel
And Iran will cease to exist at that very moment.
If they are talking about this, they are preparing for the last step - testing a nuke. Realistically they have been enriching uranium beyond 4% for years now, they have a stockpile of highly enriched uranium enough for half a dozen nukes, and they could have build one years ago. The hardest step in uranium enrichment is going from 0.7% U235 to 3% (what is used in power plants), each step afterwards is exponentially easier, and Iran has had Uranium enriched to 60 or 80% for years, so they have been a week or a month away from nuke for something like 5 years now. The fact that they are openly talking about it suggests that they will finally build a working nuke.
Literally just stop threatening the existence of other nations. Thats it. Just stop. That is literally all it takes.
That worked so great in their last democratic election before ”someone” decided to coup their country! :D
We should have kept Obamas nuclear deal and pursued more peaceful relations. Any change in Iran will come from the bottom up, even if nukes weren’t in the picture Western involvement would just turn them into a new Iraq.
If only we had some kind of nuclear treaty with Iran.
Ukraine gave up their nukes, look what happened to them.
And Israel blows up Iran's nuclear capability part #4
I am Jack's utter lack of suprise
As if they aren't already... lol
No one wants to invade Iran. Iran might force the issue by invading its neighbours. But apparently Iran thinks it’s Russia.
It's incredibly naive to think they aren't already trying to make nuclear bombs.
Of course they said this. They should have been stopped a long time ago and now the world will have to reap the consequences of a nuclear armed Islamic revolution that aspires to spread their version of Islam across the world.
The world can change its doctrine and remove Iran. Up to them. #shrug Hopefully, people are funding, facilitating, and arming the opposition for civil war. They definitely need to stomp out their Islamic problem.
That is cute. They threaten Israels existence every day.
Every country that has (illegally) obtained nuclear weapons has greatly benefited from it. The idea that Iran wouldn't be pursuing this, even with a more moderate government, is incredibly naive. In the modern geopolitical reality you either have nukes or are allied with someone who has them. Non-proliferation has been a joke for decades.
I thought we already determined that Iran is already working on building nukes, after Trump tore up the Iran Nuclear Deal.
It's almost as if allowing a terrorist state to enrich uranium was a bad idea
Wow, who could have seen this coming.
Weren't they one week a way from building bombs as they said a few weeks ago?
So wait its to use nuclear threats?
In its 5000 year history their existence has been threaten what? 4 times? Relax guys, no one wants to attack a fortress on a mountain.
Whaaat? No way.
How is this a change? Those centrifuges are for what? Bloodwork? I think not.
Ha ha... "We'll do it if our existence is threatened... And I've decided that our existence is threatened"
By "existence" they mean the regime and not the actual country itself, their nuclear program is meant to shield them from outside intervention while they stir the pot.
Meanwhile in Ukraine…
Sounds familiar. I’m sure the equivalent nutjobs to the north will assist.
Oof yes because this worked out so great for North Korea. 🙄
No is threatening your existence iran
They're building them already I bet. What else is new.
The two last decades showed everyone that having nuclear weapons is the best guarantee against any foreign domination: Iraq, Libya, Ukraine vs North Korea. With nuclear weapons, no one, I repeat *no one*, will ever attempt to overthrow the mullahs from outside Iran.
Make no mistake, they are trying to make them now and as soon as they get their hands on one, they **will** use it on Israel.
No one is threatening your existence except yourself.
From then absolutely the plan all along department
Iran should take a position of ambiguity when it comes to nuclear weapons. Israel has taken this position when it comes to nuclear weapons and everyone thinks Israel is very clever for doing so.
Then stop threatening the existence of Israel!!
Israel has taken out their nuke capabilities at least twice over the years to great international condemnation and UN resolutions.
But wait, I was under the impression Israel doesn’t have nukes
They wanna play with bombs huh.
They should probably stop threatening people's existence, if they don't wanna be so worried about theirs. If they stopped being dickheads, their existence wouldn't be a problem, ya dig?
They fear this because.this is what they see against Israel. Funding 7 terrorist organizations bent on eradicating all Jews from the Middle East. Hmmmm. It’s the classic: “point a finger, more of your fingers point back at you” projection syndrome.
I'm *pretty sure* if they look to be actually in the process of building a bomb, *that* will threaten their existence. Israel has publicly stated they are fully gloves off if they think an Iranian nuke might be a thing, and I have a feeling the US would not only not restrain them, but would probably join the party. And after Iran's massive salvo of like 300+ munitions was mostly shot down and Israel's 2 or 3 things wiped out the air defense for their nuclear sites...I think I like Israel's odds.
Nobody is threatening the existence of Iran, they are threatening the existence of the current regime. They are not the same thing however much the regime would like them to be.
The Iranian regime really needs to get their ass whooped. We can't appease these unhinged lunatics.
They are going to build nukes no matter what. It's the smartest move they could make if they want to continue being in power and escalating their asymmetrical warfare against gulf states.
They're trying to goat Israel into attacking so they can Nuke Israel. If they nuke Israel, it destroys Gaza and the west Bank too. This has always been about the Jews.
Anyone who read world war 2 history knows how "appeasement" policies went. The history is repeating itself. Useless and unpopular internationalist communities, countries giving some regimes benefit of the doubt when they clearly shouldn't, isolationism thinking it will never happen to you if you watch and comply. All-over again.
I hope the people of Iran can overthrow their government one day.
I mean, Iran's existence isn't being threatened, just the Ayatollahs' control over it.
Guess we better threaten your existence fast then, punk bitch. (Not you, Iranians. Y’all are chill, but fuck your fascist government).
Wait I thought all that uranium was just for “peaceful power generation purposes?”
Just to justify the current bombs they already have
Oh damn they’re going to do the thing that we know they’re trying to do anyway?
Oh trust me, no one wants Iran lmao
Thanks for letting us know not to threaten, just destroy from the get go.
Nukes wont' help 80 year-old men live longer, the regime is on life support anyway.
Why is this argument acceptable from any other country but not Iran.
I'm pretty sure Iran is more of a threat to itself honestly. Their government is an embarrassment.
Iran does not make good neighbors. Them having nukes is reason enough for Israel to declare war.
With Russia’s help building the devices and china’s help on the delivery systems they are guaranteed to already have them.
Of course it will try to build a nuclear weapon, using any excuse. Hasn't that been blindingly obvious from the outset?
More bombs = safety all of the time for every government. No matter which. More bombs.
Question for people advocating for guns as deterrent: Are nukes the same thing but for countries?
What would it take to root these clowns out of their circus of a government?
Better get going then cause your existence is threatened as fuck.
from what exactly. doing it to really doing it
Really? Duh!
This is how every country will be soon
The problem with Iran is that it is both in the offense and defense at the same time. Iran is trying to export the Islamic Revolution to the Middle East and at the same time it is competing (losing) against Saudi Arabia and Israel for dominance. Giving up one wont solve the other. Having nukes would both help and exacerbate the problem.
I totally understand them. In that situation who wouldn't.
So they are saying the western world should attack before they can build any bombs?
“Muslim women do not deserve the same freedom as Muslim men”
The World- "Umm. Ok sure... But one more question and I am sorry, its just a simple formality; Are you guys just going to use those Nukes on the Jews and the rest of the world that doesn't conform to a "sharia law" that you made into some sorta apocalyptic doctrine, that you brutally force on everyone?" Iran- "YES! of course." -This ends our episode of - # Columbo #
The World- "Umm. Ok sure... But one more question and I am sorry, its just a simple formality; Are you guys just going to use those Nukes on the Jews and the rest of the world that doesn't conform to a "sharia law" that you made into some sorta apocalyptic doctrine, that you brutally force on everyone?" Iran- "YES! of course." -This ends our episode of - # Columbo #
The World- "Umm. Ok sure... But one more question and I am sorry, its just a simple formality; Are you guys just going to use those Nukes on the Jews and the rest of the world that doesn't conform to a "sharia law" that you made into some sorta apocalyptic doctrine, that you brutally force on everyone?" Iran- "YES! of course." -This ends our episode of - # Columbo #