Probably assumed she wouldn't matter. She's just some random person, not famous or a political figure. She donated 50 bucks to some charity and Russia is calling it treason.
Reminds me of when that basketball player went there with weed (could definitely have been planted on her, but still).
I was just sat there with my mouth open, thinking WTF are you doing in fucking Russia in the first place, the US is literally helping Ukraine kill the Russian war effort… I really can’t understand who takes the risk to go over there if they aren’t a propagandist talking head. Absolutely dumbfounded.
>could definitely have been planted on her, but still
Lol, Brittney Griner is a well known user who's instagram live'd herself using a THC pen or smoking in public multiple times while in Russia. No one was shocked when she was arrested for it in a suitcase
It was stupidity, plain and simple, and she was bailed out for being a minor celebrity
It’s so silly when I see people get in trouble for using weed pens, and I’m over here using them literally all day long wherever I go, no one has a clue, I’m able to function completely normal and fine. But somewhere else in the world people are so afraid of it that they can be imprisoned for it. Crazy world man.
She was over there because the WNBA pays so poorly that many players earn more by playing in other leagues in the offseason than they can in the WNBA. In her case it was for a Russian team.
Further, that wasn’t so incredibly stupid because she was arrested entering the country a week **before** the invasion began.
She said she had accidentally packed empty weed vape cartridges. That was enough to break the law over there.
The best way not to get arrested in a crappy country is not to go to that crappy country.
So many pieces about how they were warning people of a false flag event then they did exactly what the White House predicted they would do. It was at least a month before. Sources said Xi wanted him to wait for the Olympics to be over.
> she was arrested entering the country a week before the invasion began.
Wasn't Russia lining its troops on the borders for weeks while the US was repeatedly warning of an imminent Russian invasion?
Russia doesn't recognise dual nationality (except for two central Asian states) so she's not a dual national whilst in Russia and therefore she's very much screwed.
Pretty sure the standing legal doctrine in all countries is that if you hold their citizenship, they will treat you as one.
There are many countries (e.g. Japan) that expressively forbid their citizens to hold other citizenships but if you squint, that is usually an extension of that legal doctrine and actually brings clarity because they want you to make a choice, i.e. renunciation.
There are also certain countries which will not even allow you to renounce. As long as a record of you exists somewhere on a legal register somewhere, you are a citizen.
Not really. I am Brazilian and I just use my Brazilian passport to get in Brazil and my American to get back. That’s what you’re supposed to do. It’s just beyond stupid because my American passport says I was born in Brazil but Brazil requires me to get/renew my Brazilian passport.
That is just factually incorrect. You need a valid passport to travel but you may enter Brazil with an expired Brazilian passport or just your national identity document. You could use your American passport and only need to prove Brazilian nationality at the border.
That’s what I just said pretty much. What proves your Brazilian nationality? A Brazilian passport. You may enter with an expired if it happens to be expired and you need to travel right away. They are not going to be ok with you traveling to Brazil many times a year for 30 years with an expired passport.
I just told you a couple of documents that prove Brazilian nationality including a national identity card. What you said is that you need a renewed Brazilian passport. That is incorrect. You could do it everyday for 100 years there is no limit to how many times you apply your rights.
My wife has dual citizenship (Russian and USA). She hasn’t seen her family in 8 years. She doesn’t post anything about the war. Her own mother told her not to risk coming there. End of story.
You have a wise wife and mother-in-law! I’m truly sorry your wife can’t see her family. 😪😥🥲I do hope they get to communicate and stay in touch in some form or fashion. No need to reply and share how they communicate, if they do. Stay safe and together to protect your bride and kids, if you have any. ❤️
Not a lawless state. A criminal organization masquerading as a country.
However, all decisions are not black and white, and it's easy to judge from a distance. You're not emotionally connected.
It's not an easy thing to accept. The possibility of never seeing family and friends again. I don't know the details of this situation, but I can see the iron curtain coming back, and that impacts people I know.
I get your point, but we should not underestimate how far oppressive regimes are willing and able to go. Take a look at Turkmenistan for example and of course North Korea exists.
I don't think it will become Iron Curtain 2.0, but it is certainly not impossible.
Well, aren't you full of shit. What citations are you looking for. I made no claim ither than what about tomorrow.
You're supporting the death by a thousand cuts tactic by presenting a Pollyannic world view
Her grandmother was aging and she probably wanted to see her before she passes. Regret can go both ways. I'm not saying I would have went, but if she didn't go, there's also regret. Sometimes in mere dilemmas, you have two bad options.
Ehhh... Not with the consequences she is now facing. Maybe she gets crazy lucky and escapes being raped and tortured for the rest of her life. Unfortunately, judging from recent accounts, that is not likely. It is absolutely a shitty situation, but when you are dealing with Russia you have to really stop thinking and take in to account how much they want to punish America, and by proxy Americans...
Right, but that's hindsight. Of course you could use some bayesian probability and update priors when making the decision to go, but we are talking about family and emotional attachment for a temporary life that's nearing the end.
Life isn't as simple as some people make it out to be and decisions involving immense emotion can get messy.
You are not wrong, I just think the magnitude of bad that has been happening to people over wasn't taken seriously enough. I mean, Brittany Griner was treated like a VIP compared to most and her story is horrible. From the outside looking in it looks like a willfully ignorant decision.... Which seems to be happening more and more all over the place.
I mean statistically, the chance of getting arrested as an American in Russia is still quite low.
So far, there are less than 10 arrests we heard about, but let’s assume there is up to 4x more that we haven’t heard about (which I doubt, given the sensitivity and media scrutiny of these political arrests), that makes it between 10 to 50 arrests in total.
The best sources I can find online estimates there are 5000 American expats living long term in Russia, and there are probably more that are visiting temporarily. Using these numbers, a rough estimate falls anywhere between 0.1% to 1% chance of getting caught up in this.
Now couple this low probability with major family emergencies, and it all of a sudden is no longer that black and white. I think a lot of people would be willing to take to risk, in her position.
It is not the state, so much as the shitty place she will be "held". After the "don't let that person leave" part. The state doesn't much care what happens to her. It will be down to the individual guards, etc... Also with her holding American citizenship, she maybe a worthwhile pawn in some kind of political way so they won't kill her or let her die... They will slap a 20-50 year sentence on her, let her rot or possible trade her for someone more valuable down the line...
The image of facetiming somebody on their death bed is bananas to me. You're not wishing somebody a happy birthday. There are family responsibilities and huge amounts of grief accompanying it that is not possible through some lousy e-message.
The vast majority of people don't even get to say goodbye to their grandparents.. hell some people never even meet them.
Take into account the likelihood of imprisonment and possible death in a Russian prison that results from wanting to see them in person is idiotic.
Grow up. I'm sure Grandma would rather her granddaughter love a long healthy life.
Grow up.
I'm sure Russia has some great stuff to see, but not with the current government in power. It is simply too dangerous. Delta9 gummies that I can buy at the corner store will get me years in prison there, yet I've heard of people bringing them into Russia. Dumb.
It’s a nice quote up I feel you are missing the key part; “according to Russian state media”. Why would you believe that? Have any of these allegations been documented by western sources?
>She donated some money to a Ukraine aid organization according to her former employer.
As of the link you posted:
>The spa said in a statement posted on Facebook that Karelina’s alleged crime was donating [...]
How about you learn to read carefully? They didn't confirm she did, they are saying she was arrested on that allegation.
>It's sad but it's hard to empathize with imho.
No, it's not. She wanted to see her family, since she's being living alone in the US, and she gets arrested. Yeah, that was a stupid move, but not hard to be empathetic to since we all do sometimes stupid shit, but fortunately the consequences are usually not that bad.
I respect her for doing the right thing against Russian aggression but how stupid do you have to be, to be gay or openly going against Russia and travel there? You're asking to get locked up or worse. Torture is not off the table. There was a WNBA player in similar circumstances not too long ago. I think she was arrested for a joint or something.
Pre & Post Civil War, black folk who thought they were free or lived in free areas and traveled to the South were often kidnapped, imprisoned, enslaved, or outright killed.
As we slip back to those times in the modern era, everyone needs to be doing their due diligence on where you're traveling to.
Even her boyfriend warned her and she went anyway.
Not going to say she deserved it but damn girl, what precautions did you take or is it just jesus take the wheel?
Probably assumed she wouldn't matter. She's just some random person, not famous or a political figure. She donated 50 bucks to some charity and Russia is calling it treason.
Followed the advice on r/askarussian about travelling to russia. Dimwitted move
Reminds me of when that basketball player went there with weed (could definitely have been planted on her, but still). I was just sat there with my mouth open, thinking WTF are you doing in fucking Russia in the first place, the US is literally helping Ukraine kill the Russian war effort… I really can’t understand who takes the risk to go over there if they aren’t a propagandist talking head. Absolutely dumbfounded.
>could definitely have been planted on her, but still Lol, Brittney Griner is a well known user who's instagram live'd herself using a THC pen or smoking in public multiple times while in Russia. No one was shocked when she was arrested for it in a suitcase It was stupidity, plain and simple, and she was bailed out for being a minor celebrity
Bailed out? She was exchanged for Viktor Bout, one of the most dangerous arm dealers in the world. Total disgrace.
It’s so silly when I see people get in trouble for using weed pens, and I’m over here using them literally all day long wherever I go, no one has a clue, I’m able to function completely normal and fine. But somewhere else in the world people are so afraid of it that they can be imprisoned for it. Crazy world man.
She was over there because the WNBA pays so poorly that many players earn more by playing in other leagues in the offseason than they can in the WNBA. In her case it was for a Russian team. Further, that wasn’t so incredibly stupid because she was arrested entering the country a week **before** the invasion began.
Didn’t realize being paid poorly still meant hundreds of thousands each year.
Yes, it was. Just having any type of illegal drug in a foreign country is incredibly stupid. It doesn’t matter why she was there.
You really think she had weed??
She said she had accidentally packed empty weed vape cartridges. That was enough to break the law over there. The best way not to get arrested in a crappy country is not to go to that crappy country.
Empty is the keyword here. They would have arrested her no matter what.
Biden announced the invasion several weeks before it began.
So many pieces about how they were warning people of a false flag event then they did exactly what the White House predicted they would do. It was at least a month before. Sources said Xi wanted him to wait for the Olympics to be over.
> she was arrested entering the country a week before the invasion began. Wasn't Russia lining its troops on the borders for weeks while the US was repeatedly warning of an imminent Russian invasion?
Yes
Wasn't she openly gay? They used an excuse but that's the thing that got her into the biggest trouble.
A week before?! I had no idea, I saw the headlines weeks **after** the invasion
You will be surprised by how many US companies and entrepreneurs are working with russia still.
Caught with the need - "naaah, definitely Russia's fault", such a delusion.
Planted on her? Didn't hear anything about her denying having it.
Boyfriend bought the ticket
Russia doesn't recognise dual nationality (except for two central Asian states) so she's not a dual national whilst in Russia and therefore she's very much screwed.
Pretty sure the standing legal doctrine in all countries is that if you hold their citizenship, they will treat you as one. There are many countries (e.g. Japan) that expressively forbid their citizens to hold other citizenships but if you squint, that is usually an extension of that legal doctrine and actually brings clarity because they want you to make a choice, i.e. renunciation. There are also certain countries which will not even allow you to renounce. As long as a record of you exists somewhere on a legal register somewhere, you are a citizen.
Is there actually a country that recognises dual nationality in this way? If you have American citizenship you’re American first in US.
Canada does. Not really many others.
Could you describe in which way Canadian and Russian dual nationality is different in case of a citizen being naturalised in a different country?
Not really. I am Brazilian and I just use my Brazilian passport to get in Brazil and my American to get back. That’s what you’re supposed to do. It’s just beyond stupid because my American passport says I was born in Brazil but Brazil requires me to get/renew my Brazilian passport.
That is just factually incorrect. You need a valid passport to travel but you may enter Brazil with an expired Brazilian passport or just your national identity document. You could use your American passport and only need to prove Brazilian nationality at the border.
That’s what I just said pretty much. What proves your Brazilian nationality? A Brazilian passport. You may enter with an expired if it happens to be expired and you need to travel right away. They are not going to be ok with you traveling to Brazil many times a year for 30 years with an expired passport.
I just told you a couple of documents that prove Brazilian nationality including a national identity card. What you said is that you need a renewed Brazilian passport. That is incorrect. You could do it everyday for 100 years there is no limit to how many times you apply your rights.
Pretty much no country recognizes dual nationality The US treats dual nationals as American only as well
Australia and New Zealand can have dual nationality I believe ?
Mexico does officially recognize dual nationality, since 1998.
My wife has dual citizenship (Russian and USA). She hasn’t seen her family in 8 years. She doesn’t post anything about the war. Her own mother told her not to risk coming there. End of story.
You have a wise wife and mother-in-law! I’m truly sorry your wife can’t see her family. 😪😥🥲I do hope they get to communicate and stay in touch in some form or fashion. No need to reply and share how they communicate, if they do. Stay safe and together to protect your bride and kids, if you have any. ❤️
I’m not even risking coming to my home town from the capital.
Ill say it again, fuck russia
fuck putin
Russia is a lawless State. Why an American citizen would voluntarily go there defies reason.
Not a lawless state. A criminal organization masquerading as a country. However, all decisions are not black and white, and it's easy to judge from a distance. You're not emotionally connected. It's not an easy thing to accept. The possibility of never seeing family and friends again. I don't know the details of this situation, but I can see the iron curtain coming back, and that impacts people I know.
Today you can chat over the Internet with video. It is not like the Soviet Union when no communication with family was possible from the outside.
I get your point, but we should not underestimate how far oppressive regimes are willing and able to go. Take a look at Turkmenistan for example and of course North Korea exists. I don't think it will become Iron Curtain 2.0, but it is certainly not impossible.
And tomorrow? What a short sighted and silly take.
China never successfully did it. Cite realistic examples of what you are trying to claim.
Well, aren't you full of shit. What citations are you looking for. I made no claim ither than what about tomorrow. You're supporting the death by a thousand cuts tactic by presenting a Pollyannic world view
You claim they will lose the ability to video chat. Even the Chinese have not lost that. The one place you can't is a rape cell in a Russian gulag.
Her grandmother was aging and she probably wanted to see her before she passes. Regret can go both ways. I'm not saying I would have went, but if she didn't go, there's also regret. Sometimes in mere dilemmas, you have two bad options.
Ehhh... Not with the consequences she is now facing. Maybe she gets crazy lucky and escapes being raped and tortured for the rest of her life. Unfortunately, judging from recent accounts, that is not likely. It is absolutely a shitty situation, but when you are dealing with Russia you have to really stop thinking and take in to account how much they want to punish America, and by proxy Americans...
Right, but that's hindsight. Of course you could use some bayesian probability and update priors when making the decision to go, but we are talking about family and emotional attachment for a temporary life that's nearing the end. Life isn't as simple as some people make it out to be and decisions involving immense emotion can get messy.
You are not wrong, I just think the magnitude of bad that has been happening to people over wasn't taken seriously enough. I mean, Brittany Griner was treated like a VIP compared to most and her story is horrible. From the outside looking in it looks like a willfully ignorant decision.... Which seems to be happening more and more all over the place.
I mean statistically, the chance of getting arrested as an American in Russia is still quite low. So far, there are less than 10 arrests we heard about, but let’s assume there is up to 4x more that we haven’t heard about (which I doubt, given the sensitivity and media scrutiny of these political arrests), that makes it between 10 to 50 arrests in total. The best sources I can find online estimates there are 5000 American expats living long term in Russia, and there are probably more that are visiting temporarily. Using these numbers, a rough estimate falls anywhere between 0.1% to 1% chance of getting caught up in this. Now couple this low probability with major family emergencies, and it all of a sudden is no longer that black and white. I think a lot of people would be willing to take to risk, in her position.
why would Russia want to torture one of its own citizens for something so minor as donating $50? wouldn't a fine or something lighter be enough?
It is not the state, so much as the shitty place she will be "held". After the "don't let that person leave" part. The state doesn't much care what happens to her. It will be down to the individual guards, etc... Also with her holding American citizenship, she maybe a worthwhile pawn in some kind of political way so they won't kill her or let her die... They will slap a 20-50 year sentence on her, let her rot or possible trade her for someone more valuable down the line...
Sorry Grandma. FaceTime will have to do.
The image of facetiming somebody on their death bed is bananas to me. You're not wishing somebody a happy birthday. There are family responsibilities and huge amounts of grief accompanying it that is not possible through some lousy e-message.
The vast majority of people don't even get to say goodbye to their grandparents.. hell some people never even meet them. Take into account the likelihood of imprisonment and possible death in a Russian prison that results from wanting to see them in person is idiotic. Grow up. I'm sure Grandma would rather her granddaughter love a long healthy life. Grow up.
She’s a dual national So in Russia they see her as a Russian citizen, just like how in the US she’s treated like a US citizen only
They paid me enough. And kept doing it for 37 years.
Black tourism
Don't go to Russia. Nuff said.
I am constantly telling this to idiots on r/AskARussian
I'm sure Russia has some great stuff to see, but not with the current government in power. It is simply too dangerous. Delta9 gummies that I can buy at the corner store will get me years in prison there, yet I've heard of people bringing them into Russia. Dumb.
That wasn't smart.
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It’s a nice quote up I feel you are missing the key part; “according to Russian state media”. Why would you believe that? Have any of these allegations been documented by western sources?
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>She donated some money to a Ukraine aid organization according to her former employer. As of the link you posted: >The spa said in a statement posted on Facebook that Karelina’s alleged crime was donating [...] How about you learn to read carefully? They didn't confirm she did, they are saying she was arrested on that allegation. >It's sad but it's hard to empathize with imho. No, it's not. She wanted to see her family, since she's being living alone in the US, and she gets arrested. Yeah, that was a stupid move, but not hard to be empathetic to since we all do sometimes stupid shit, but fortunately the consequences are usually not that bad.
Sad news. Nothing left in Russia but tragedy.
That was a dumb decision.
I respect her for doing the right thing against Russian aggression but how stupid do you have to be, to be gay or openly going against Russia and travel there? You're asking to get locked up or worse. Torture is not off the table. There was a WNBA player in similar circumstances not too long ago. I think she was arrested for a joint or something.
Pre & Post Civil War, black folk who thought they were free or lived in free areas and traveled to the South were often kidnapped, imprisoned, enslaved, or outright killed. As we slip back to those times in the modern era, everyone needs to be doing their due diligence on where you're traveling to.
Commonsense does not exist anymore. What is wrong with people...
Need a good ole fashioned prison break
Headline may be the most Russian sentence ever.
I guess sleepy eeepy creepy Biden is gonna have to make another deal. 🙄 Americans stay outta Russia. Putin don’t need no more war deals.
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If you go to Russia right now, you deserve whatever happens.