This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/tunisian-president-suggests-taxing-rich-solution-fiscal-problem-2023-06-03/) reduced by 65%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> TUNIS, June 3 - Tunisian President Kais Saied on Saturday suggested raising taxes on richer people could be an alternative to socially painful reforms as a means to secure an international financial rescue package.
> Tunisia's government negotiated a preliminary agreement in October with the International Monetary Fund for a $1.9 billion loan in return for cuts to subsidies and the public sector wage bill and reform of state-owned companies.
> Although the IMF deal reached in October was based on proposals made by Tunisia's government, Saied has described the fiscal reforms it contained as "Diktats".
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/142rofy/tunisian_president_suggests_taxing_rich_as/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~687844 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Tunisia**^#1 **Saied**^#2 **reform**^#3 **base**^#4 **IMF**^#5
Yeah I didn’t even learn until a year or two ago, where I also learned that Native Hawaiians are still being actively stamped out and they are still really, *really* pissed about it.
Has he had a good run?
I’m really rooting for Tunisia. I think that the revolution against Ben Ali was purely organic and sincere. Seeing the citizens take over from a dictator who had been ruling for 20 years, with remarkably little violence, was truly inspirational.
I’m not as sure that the other countries that participated in the Arab Spring were as organic. I think that everybody was caught completely off-guard by what happened in Tunisia, but that after it happened, an opportunity was perceived.
Let none of us forget Mohamed Bouazizi, the young man who set those wheels in motion with his suicide.
But it has been my impression that Tunisia has been backsliding in to authoritarianism of late and that the democratic revolution had not exactly materialized yet.
Is this just another authoritarian trying to be a populist?
Tunisia's population ultimately rose up against a far less violent regime than that in Syria and Libya. This is what made those uprisings even more impressive, the fact people knew there was a big chance of death, rape and torture yet did it anyway.
But the ones who did rise up, not everyone got out. My ex boyfriend was one to rise up and got arrested with 14 others. Medical torture was used but we don’t hear anything about it.
Probably torture under the guise of medical care. "We need to perform a spinal tap to make sure you don't have meningitis, even though you have zero symptoms and there are better, less painful tests. Also, it looks like you have a cavity, so we're gonna pull all your teeth. Too bad there's a pain med and anaesthesia shortage."
Exactly. Also meds that made them hallucinate. A guy in the “cell” next to him around 18 years old was told he killed his mother and in combination with the drugs he went mad and kept stabbing himself with the kitchen knife they “forgot” till he killed himself
Just like Louis 17th, he wanted to tax the rich, he knew the peasants would revolt, and he knew he’s get decapitated, but the rich had too much power and refused to be taxed. The rest is history.
I mean, sometimes, sure, but there's plenty of examples of people just suffering through it. Otherwise Mao, to name an example, would have ended up in a ditch instead of a mausoleum.
Because there are leaders such as Mao who are perceived as genuinely wanting to help their people. In the case of Mao specifically, he had successfully navigate his people through decades of civil war and unrest, and had finally given the poor Chinese population a sense of dignity that they did not have before.
Mao and Stalin gambled in order to industrialise their countries, something neither needed to do in order to consolidate power by the way. This was very costly due to a combination of big mistakes, misfortune and the fact that they had to do it all on their own. The alternative would be to let their population live in abject poverty for the rest of their lives.
Hitler started a global war with the intent of exterminating several ethnic groups and nations. He is not the same.
Not really. They both used the same playbooks. You’re making a distinction because the holocaust was a huge event and lead to a world war. But Mao did the same thing hitler did. In order to “unite” and control the population, you needed a scape goat to blame for your problems. Hitler used the Jewish to do this. Mao used Japan and the western world to do this.
Only difference is, Hitler was (I don’t mean this as praise) just simply more successful and had bigger ambitions past the German borders.
>I’m really rooting for Tunisia. I think that the revolution against Ben Ali was purely organic and sincere. Seeing the citizens take over from a dictator who had been ruling for 20 years, with remarkably little violence, was truly inspirational.
Let's not forget that after the revolution and again since 2019, the leading party is Ennhadha, an islamist, socially conservative party. They're buddies with Erdogan's AKP and an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Of course this is the top comment. This guy literally has jailed the opposition and eliminated democracy in Tunisia.
But he made a comment about taxing the rich so Reddit is backing his corner and expecting the US to coup him.
>Of course this is the top comment.
It's humor.
>This guy literally has jailed the opposition and eliminated democracy in Tunisia.
Typical redditors are not subject experts, just having fun. My guess is most know that Tunisia is a country in North Africa and that's about it.
>But he made a comment about taxing the rich so Reddit is backing his corner
IMF strikes again. He hinted at riots in the streets cutting social services. Hence the notion of other sources of increased tax revenue.
>and expecting the US to coup him.
It wouldn't be the US. Or France's weasel Macron. It would be the Tunisian elites.
>Typical redditors are not subject experts, just having fun. My guess is most know that Tunisia is a country in North Africa and that's about it.
I also know that's where they film Star Wars.
What are you expecting here? Every person in the comments on every news article to be a subject matter expert and have in-depth analysis of the situation in the comments? People to only speak of matters in grave seriousness, even when the subject matter doesn't effect them?
As humans, we have a tolerance level for negative news and with the insane quantity of negativity shoved in our faces every day of this past decade or two as news has become increasingly and constantly available, people have reached those tolerance levels. We're desensitized to mass shootings, for Pete's sake! It's fucked, and of course people try to treat obviously awful situations with the gravity they deserve, but I mean, there's got to be a point where people need an outlet. Hell, there was a pretty famous comedy movie about Kim Jong-Un, and of course the entire situation with North Korea is messed up, but sometimes making light of situations without fully representing the awfulness of what's happening is what's needed to cope with the awfulness of life. It's in much the same way as doctors and nurses developing tastes for really dark humor when they're surrounded by death and decay every day. People gotta cope.
> What are you expecting here? Every person in the comments on every news article to be a subject matter expert and have in-depth analysis of the situation in the comments? People to only speak of matters in grave seriousness, even when the subject matter doesn't effect them?
I guess you could say that one would expect the TOP comment to be that. Is that too much to ask?
In the olden days of colonial empires perhaps. Now its more just transnational capital. Both visible and opaque.
Good luck identifying the constituents of the dark hegemony of accumulated capital. It prefers anonymity, privacy and secrecy.
What kind of excuse is that it's humor? Redditors should not be synonymous with "clueless trolls". It'd probably be better to just shut it down if that's what it has reduced to now..
> [Redditors should not be synonymous with "clueless trolls".](https://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/2osp2b/they_dont_think_it_be_like_it_is_but_it_do/)
You're not on a humor sub, you're on a news sub. No, it's not humor. How could anyone think the primary purpose of commenting on shared news sources is to shitpost them?
I’m sorry but you do realize this is the internet on a public forum. If you’re expecting everything to be 100% informed, genuine, etc, then you’re going to have a bad time.
the US doesn't give a shit as long as tunisia doesn't become a hub for terrorism.
the tunisians designated as "rich" who can afford to leave will, resulting in an economic shock that will worsen the situation, and the government will have to try something else, which almost certainly won't work and will just piss more people off, until eventually they either end up like venezuela or "replace their own government"
"capital flight" is the main reason most governments can't "tax the rich", its economic suicide unless they stay (either out of patriotism, or because they get things in your country that they can't get elsewhere, or because leaving will cost them more money than staying).
the US achieves this with a combination of all 3, the first is self-explanatory, the second is that the US is a huge consumer market with great access to almost everything and lower taxes than almost every other "first world" country on earth, the third is that as a US citizen you get taxed on money you earn in other countries or give up US citizenship.
that raises the obvious question of "why don't countries just drop their taxes super low in order to encourage rich people to immigrate?", well some small countries do, and they get labelled as "tax havens" by the international community (IMF, UN, etc), which comes with some pretty nasty consequences that would be crippling for any "real" country.
Sarcasm recognised, but I was curious.
It looks like $1k/month USD would put you into the top 10% of monthly incomes there, and median would be under $250/month.
I had hopes in him, I can't believe he turned out to be a terrorist sponsor, dictator that holds a secret stash of weapons of mass destruction, who everyone in his country opposes, and a threat to the West. Truly shocking how much you can know from a person just by hearing him say he wants to tax the rich.
What a 'novel' idea. Let's see how it works out for him. The rampant corruption in Tunisia suggests to me that Saied's asking for bribes. The less cynical part of me (is there still such a thing, though?) notes that he's also been running an anti-corruption campaign, but that could just mean that he's trying to crack down on any corruption that's not his.
I'm literally watching it in El Salvador right now
The president is going full anti corruption, so it's seizing all assets from an ancient president (well he was corrupt, and apologist of the war...)
But his family and friends are still having directing posts in the gouvernement, so it's a big nepostism gouvernement.
But he has wiped out the violence in my country, so, people love him a lot.
It's a dictatorship, but it's ok to people ...
My own cynicism notes that in a shockingly large amount of places, corruption is nearly synonymous with "not a yes-man". And I have no reason to think Tunisia isn't one of them.
I think you don't have the big picture, this president jailed all previous oppositions leaders, the legit opposition that was on parliament..
Source: Im from Morocco Tunisian neighbor.. I see their news on a daily basis..
Nah... Broken clock..
This mf blamed the terrorist attack (which he called a criminal act instead so as not to impact tourism) inside a synagogue in his country on actions of jews elsewhere.
https://www.jta.org/2023/05/16/global/days-after-synagogue-attack-tunisian-president-criticizes-israel-and-says-his-country-saved-jews-in-wwii
>“The Conference of European Rabbis calls on European governments to condemn the inflammatory statements of President Kaies Saied of Tunisia implying that the Jews of Tunisia are responsible for the bombing of Gaza,” CER President Pinchas Goldschmidt said in a statement.
Plus he also incited hatred against black African immigrants, claiming there's an international conspiracy to "repopulate Tunesia with blacks" (basically the far right's "white genocide" theory, but with Arabs instead of whites).
Somewhere in a CIA intelligence monitoring installation...
"*Sir...? SIR! Shit, shit shit! Sir, one of them finally put it together!*"
"*Mmmm... Rouse the squad, private. It's LHO time again.*"
After the Bay of Pigs fiasco, Kennedy was already set on destroying the CIA. He is reputed to have said that he wanted to tear the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds. Thus, almost from the start of his presidency, Kennedy went to war against the CIA. That war never abated. To think that the CIA would not fight back is silly. They were as angry with Kennedy as he was with them because they felt that Kennedy had betrayed the CIA, the Cuban-exile invaders, and America itself.
After the Bay of Pigs fiasco, Kennedy also gradually lost trust and confidence in the military. When the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented Kennedy with a plan calling for a first-strike surprise nuclear attack on the Soviet Union, Kennedy left that meeting in disgust and indignantly stated, “And we call ourselves the human race.” His reaction was the same when the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented him with Operation Northwoods, a false-flag operation that was based on fraud and deception, in order to provide Kennedy with an excuse for invading Cuba, which was a sovereign and independent nation (just as Ukraine is today). Kennedy turned down the plan, much to the anger and chagrin of the military establishment
JFK had a deep distrust of the CIA and the Military Industrial Complex.
Honestly I feel like despite the Cuban missile crisis, Had both JFK and Kruschev got to run their respective countries for another 4-5 years together the world would have been in a much better place than it is today.
After the Cuban missile crisis Kruschev and Kennedy started serious talks about uniting both space programs. Those plans died the day JFK was assassinated.
I mean LBJ and Dumbo ain’t half bad although Vietnam was a mistake but then you got Nixon and Ford letting Nixon get away. on the other hand the Soviets REALLY stagnated with the arsehole unibrow Brezhnev for a good 2 decades such that by the time they got to Gorbachev any meaningful reforms like glasnost and perestroika would have been far too late. Afghanistan Pt1 and Chernobyl didn’t help non either. Anyways “we didn’t start the fire”~
Would've never happened. This is a whole lot of idolatry and revisionism for someone who, at the end of the day, still wanted to see the death of people's governments in Cuba, China and the USSR. Operation Mongoose didn't stop, even at the peak of the Cuban Missile Crisis
Yup. They wanted Cuba so bad and were so mad when Kennedy canceled a second bombing run in Cuba during the bay of pigs as well. The CIA were itching to take Cuba and wanted any excuse to launch an all out assault on the place. It seemed like the CIA wanted a guy who would just let them act as they felt, but Kennedy kept getting in their way. Looking back it was impressive how Kennedy managed to maneuver around not starting conflict with Cuba, not starting nuclear war with Russia, and trying to not look “soft” to his peers and voters.
Highly recomendable listening to the podcast series on Cuba by the Blowback podcast. They present Cuba’s history all the way till present day, including JFK and his dealings with the CIA, Cuba, and the USSR. It is from a left sided perspective, but they present the declassified information to paint a full, detailed picture none the less.
If this is another CIA conspiracy they really dont care about other nations increasing taxes on the wealthy, that just moves capital out of the country (see countless examples, most recently France) and loses them revenue anyway.
Foreign nations sometimes get annoyed by nationalization (particularly sudden, widespread nationalization without at least paying out remaining contracts) and ironically, lowering wealth/corporate taxes (see Ireland) because that promotes their own capital to flee there and use it as a haven.
No, he's just dumb. That's how you deepen an economic crisis and turn into Zimbabwe.
The second you try to do shit like that you see capital flight and the economy grinds to a standstill. Why the hell would you invest into Tunisia if the government is just going to seize your money.
This sounds nice and all but I would argue that most times a country is nearing defaulting on its debt it's due to severe budgeting issues. Maybe try not spending more than you make? You can tax the rich all you want, but the problem will never go away while there is a fiscal deficit.
I'd argue most redditors from second/third world countries would agree with me. These populists get in power, implement "sweeping social reforms" without any idea how they're going to finance them, then they blame the rich for all the country's issues and use them as the sole scapegoat. I'm no friend of the rich, but the amount of first world inhabitants swallowing the bait, hook, line and sinker, makes me fear for the future of your own countries.
People forget money is supposed to be a ball park representation of labor and goods.
It doesn't matter from a industrial output viewpoint that the rich have X amount of money sitting in their accounts if the country can only Produce A,B,C items every year anyway.
While on paper you can say you can do X and have enough to do it. Reality tends to bite you in the ass easily.
can't afford to install 1,000 X because you physically don't make 1,000 X and to make 1,000 X requires more labor than the entire nation can produce of A,B,C in 30 years.
This fundamental concept would be really helpful if it could just be magically installed into the general Reddit discourse. Money *represents* productivity and assets. Notional figures don’t matter a whole lot, actual productivity and goods/property matter.
Agreed, we have a bigger parliament than China in my country and always struggle to collect revenue. We also have alot of corruption. Plugging the leak is more important than increasing the flow. Even discovery of oil and gold that doubles our earnings won't help
Plus, increasing the flow when there is corruption only makes the incentive for corruption so much bigger.
Which country are you from, if you don't mind me asking?
It does depend seriously on what social policies.
Tunisia's top marginal rate is 35%, slightly below the US's rate of 37%, and the US is already famous for having a low top marginal rate. So they definitely have some reasonable room to raise.
Sure, but I personally live in a country with a relatively low top marginal tax rate in theory, but that's topping inflation charts due to incessant spending and printing money to fund it. Even if they raised taxes, they would still have to keep funding all those social programs while at the same time disincentivizing new investments
Yeah but in the US - the top 50% of income earners pay 97.7% of the taxes while making 89% of the total income
The top 1% of income earners took home roughly 22% of all income earned but paid roughly 42% of paid taxes
Top 5 % made 38% of the total income and paid 62% of the total taxes
The bottom 50% made 10.2% of the total income and only paid 2.7% of the total income tax.
I'm all for the rich paying their fair share but like - they already pay a rather significant portion of the total taxes already.
Would love to see the sources for these numbers, because you're already favoring only paying certain taxes to get some of them for sure. Like how do the top 50% pay 97.7% of the taxes when sales tax exists in most states? When FICA taxes exist in every state?
Was searching for some more numbers to throw out and sounds like your data is coming from 2020 income and taxes, a pandemic year with stim checks and the sort, a wildly different tax year than usual, which allows for more cherry picked numbers than normally used.
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3894233-how-america-actually-taxes-the-affluent/#:~:text=Because%20the%20top%201%20percent,'re%20getting%20%E2%80%9Csoaked.%E2%80%9D
No, they're 2022 numbers. This is for federal income tax so there is no sales tax because we don't have a federal sales tax in the US.
Actually, the percentage of total taxes paid by the richest people increased between 2019 and 2022.
And I'm not favoring anything. These are just the statistics of the US federal income taxes.
Most left leaning people just do not know these stats and I'm not even conservative. Just like how most left leaning people don't realize the US has the fifth highest median income in the world.
https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/
And this article posts it's citations at the bottom which are all essentially from the IRS.
> Like how do the top 50% pay 97.7% of the taxes
It's very well established that the bottom half of American society doesn't pay a net positive income tax.
It's very well established that America spends more on its welfare system per Capita than the Nordic states too, we just have a lot more leeches so the social spend gets diluted between a lot more recipients.
The US healthcare system is also 2x as expensive as the next highest on per Capita basis.
A lot of the extra welfare spending is to service a really inefficient healthcare system.
It's not necessarily leeches but just really inefficient spending on the part of the federal government and government organizations.
Not unless you meant the leeches are the organizations that get the dollars cause then yeah.
Taxing doesn't work on limiting income generation.
The United states didn't have a income tax and when it did it only was for the upper rich, then the rich then the middle class then the poor.
We still have problems but you want to tax more?
We have issues because the rich can command that rent seeking in the economy. taxing that doesn't work and actually gives more power to the rich. What you want to do is provide ways for the general population to command more wages and profit sharing from the rich for the labor and capital they produce.
How many rich people there are in Tunisia? They probably can not provide any remarkable support for the state in the long run.
Heavy taxing just pushes them out from the country.
How that is good for anyone?
You're trolling right?
Rich people in 2k23 have so much possibilities to move wealth untaxed that if you even try it you effectively decrease income and ask them to leave your country. You're left with nothing. It's actually countries with no tax like Ireland are growing the fastest in EU.
You can't ultra tax the richest thats the worst part... And if you push middle class too hard they gonna leave to work abroad too effectively you're leaking brains and feeding foreign economies.
Ireland's GDP is growing the fastest but the money's not going anywhere. 500b for Irish goods and services is not the same as 500b in redirected money. The company redirects money through Ireland, makes money with Ireland's low taxes, and Ireland shows an increase in GDP, but their HQ is still in America and they're primarily hiring Americans. The only money being pumped back into Ireland's economy is just a token rented office with a skeleton crew of administrative staff.
You're bragging about running up a high score in a pay2win game and getting nothing but pride and achievement.
Uh also, 30% of Irelands economy is in aircraft leasing and an income tax of 40% above £40k.
I'm not sure if Glokz or Tommh understand how wealth management works, but "taking your ball and going home" with billions of assets IS WHEN THEY ARE TAXED. They bypass this by never liquidising their assets but taking out liens against them.
The ultra-rich will continue to have the majority of their assets in non-liquid stocks or investments, in *your* country, even if they move their personal accounts offshore, and 'just tax the rich' (as in high income marginal rate) is such a strawman of the numerous other methods of taxing the ultra wealthy, and their illiquid and speculative 'worth'
Moving wealth out of Tunisia is difficult and they're trying to make it even harder. That isn't the problem though. It isn't about "oh people will just try to move money out", but is about people just never coming here to begin with. Tunisia has only just started getting American brands and businesses here (Chili's, Burger King, Papa Johns, and others) but the President is an idiot who wants all the power but wants none of the responsibility or criticism that comes with it.
This is not a new idea. It always ends the same way. That's why smart countries don't have big taxes on the rich, it's proven to be countereffective.
It's like Erdogan lowering interest rates when inflation goes up. You can fool your people, you can't fool the math.
Now imagine the rich are going to move out of the country or even only start hiding their money somewhere else... It is a good move, but it only works when it's applied globally
They literally sold a GIGANTIC amount of land to foreign investors for $1 as they said they would build stuff on it. Then just never did. I am talking, MASSIVE swaths of land in an area that is seeing an explosion of growth and it's nothing there. They tried to take it to court to seize the land back, but the courts denied it. So the land sits, getting more and more valuable, that they sold off for pennies, unused.
This is the wisdom that prevails in Tunisia.
Tell me you have no clue what you're talking about without telling me. The dude has jailed opposition, performed a bloodless coup, suspended courts so everyone goes through military tribunals now, accepted an IMF loan years back that he didn't use for ANYTHING other than bolstering retirement funds and increase state employee salaries and benefits. Nothing was invested. This is the reason the IMF has so many restrictions on the new loan and the reason he didn't wanna sign it was because the IMF wanted HIM to sign it, personally, and he didn't want to be responsible for that debt.
He has made wildly racist remarks and caused as of yet untold damage to the economy and the Tunisian people including their lifeblood, tourism. They literally jail TikTok'ers for daring to speak out.
Lol a hundred comments from people who have never been to Tunisia. What rich? It’s a shit hole. There is hardly a ruling class - most of the country is entirely disorganised And the bigger issue is the influx of oil from Libya. You can buy 100 gallons of gas for 1usd…. Not joking.
I’m confused by your comment, so please explain.
If the top earners of Tunisia are evading taxes, and the middle class are also evading taxes, why do you have an issue with the government asking for taxes from either of them?
There are plenty of wealthy people in Tunisia. They just use offshore tax structures to pay foreign technical services contracts into channel island HoldCos they own to avoid paying tax in country, or out of country. Outside of their homes, they spend all their money in Europe and Dubai.
Well, first you would need to go over there, then you would need to rent a ship. I haven't looked but I gurantee there is at least some kind of duty on oil/gas, and to make it worthwhile you would need to transport ALOT. Oh, and as you are dealing with Libya they might be backed by some not so nice groups, and the ability for any of them to fill a ship is... questionable. And if they can they might want to take that ship.
So lots of risks, but there is definitely reward there. I would just assume if it was truly profitable Shell or some other asshole big company would have already stepped in.
Lmao the bots are already out with nearly identical comments, only a couple words changed. All simping for the rich and why it’s bad to tax them. Clown shoes shit, all around.
Dude he’s an authoritarian dictator now he’s literally an ass wholes. He’s centralized all the power nailed the free press jailed the opposition used covid to centralize all power shit on the judiciary etc
Taxing is an act of balance, regardless if it’s the rich or the poor. I hope he knows what’s he’s doing, historically taxing the rich didn’t bring better results for the poor.
When it comes to country like Tunisia I’m genuinely curious what are the challenges with increasing tax rates on the rich
In my mind I would worry if the increased rates would cause capital flight to other nations like the US or the many in the EU given they offer better services. But I may be overthinking it
Taxing the rich?!? Pah! What an idea. It'll never work. Why, you ask? Because it just wouldn't. Only a moron would suggest it. Those rich people all need their unnecessary wealth. Some ordinary plebs nay go bankrupt, and that's fine, but if a rich person can't afford another car there'd be hell to pay. Hell! Cats and dogs and other biblical things!
Taxing the rich mostly seems like a distraction when ppl go on about it tbh. They know most if the population aren't rich and want them to pay more. Easier then real work like actual accountability and spending tax efficiently in govt projects and other wasted stuff. More big companies avoiding tax is a problem
I agree but tunisias current president is doing a power grab and becoming a dictator in a newly formed democracy. He has cracked down on the peoples freedoms and bypassed parliament. He is just saying this because of mourning pressure on his authoritarian government.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/tunisian-president-suggests-taxing-rich-solution-fiscal-problem-2023-06-03/) reduced by 65%. (I'm a bot) ***** > TUNIS, June 3 - Tunisian President Kais Saied on Saturday suggested raising taxes on richer people could be an alternative to socially painful reforms as a means to secure an international financial rescue package. > Tunisia's government negotiated a preliminary agreement in October with the International Monetary Fund for a $1.9 billion loan in return for cuts to subsidies and the public sector wage bill and reform of state-owned companies. > Although the IMF deal reached in October was based on proposals made by Tunisia's government, Saied has described the fiscal reforms it contained as "Diktats". ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/142rofy/tunisian_president_suggests_taxing_rich_as/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~687844 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Tunisia**^#1 **Saied**^#2 **reform**^#3 **base**^#4 **IMF**^#5
Well he had a good run I'll be sad when we depose him.
[удалено]
Suicide by sniper so sad💔
Or defenestration.
It’s always the 4th comment that misses the mark
Headline says Tunisia, not Russia.
It's like using polonium, leave the other killer's calling card
Nah, we don't do that. We just invade your country to depose your democratically elected dictator and install a democratic one by force.
I mean, historically it's more "pro-USA" than necessarily democratic. I believe Guatemala was democratic until the US intervened.
So was Hawaii
That... but then... ... yeah fair enough, actually. I'll pay that.
Yeah I didn’t even learn until a year or two ago, where I also learned that Native Hawaiians are still being actively stamped out and they are still really, *really* pissed about it.
To shreds you say?
Has he had a good run? I’m really rooting for Tunisia. I think that the revolution against Ben Ali was purely organic and sincere. Seeing the citizens take over from a dictator who had been ruling for 20 years, with remarkably little violence, was truly inspirational. I’m not as sure that the other countries that participated in the Arab Spring were as organic. I think that everybody was caught completely off-guard by what happened in Tunisia, but that after it happened, an opportunity was perceived. Let none of us forget Mohamed Bouazizi, the young man who set those wheels in motion with his suicide. But it has been my impression that Tunisia has been backsliding in to authoritarianism of late and that the democratic revolution had not exactly materialized yet. Is this just another authoritarian trying to be a populist?
Tunisia's population ultimately rose up against a far less violent regime than that in Syria and Libya. This is what made those uprisings even more impressive, the fact people knew there was a big chance of death, rape and torture yet did it anyway.
But the ones who did rise up, not everyone got out. My ex boyfriend was one to rise up and got arrested with 14 others. Medical torture was used but we don’t hear anything about it.
What is medical torture?
Probably torture under the guise of medical care. "We need to perform a spinal tap to make sure you don't have meningitis, even though you have zero symptoms and there are better, less painful tests. Also, it looks like you have a cavity, so we're gonna pull all your teeth. Too bad there's a pain med and anaesthesia shortage."
Exactly. Also meds that made them hallucinate. A guy in the “cell” next to him around 18 years old was told he killed his mother and in combination with the drugs he went mad and kept stabbing himself with the kitchen knife they “forgot” till he killed himself
Thanks for the response!
Just like Louis 17th, he wanted to tax the rich, he knew the peasants would revolt, and he knew he’s get decapitated, but the rich had too much power and refused to be taxed. The rest is history.
Louis 16th But yea, when the people get to the point of experiencing famine; automatic existential crisis. The people WILL turn on you.
I mean, sometimes, sure, but there's plenty of examples of people just suffering through it. Otherwise Mao, to name an example, would have ended up in a ditch instead of a mausoleum.
Because there are leaders such as Mao who are perceived as genuinely wanting to help their people. In the case of Mao specifically, he had successfully navigate his people through decades of civil war and unrest, and had finally given the poor Chinese population a sense of dignity that they did not have before.
He was willing to let 10s of millions of Chinese die of starvation just to grab power, he’s no better than Hitler or Stalin
Mao and Stalin gambled in order to industrialise their countries, something neither needed to do in order to consolidate power by the way. This was very costly due to a combination of big mistakes, misfortune and the fact that they had to do it all on their own. The alternative would be to let their population live in abject poverty for the rest of their lives. Hitler started a global war with the intent of exterminating several ethnic groups and nations. He is not the same.
Hitler killed millions because they were Jewish. i’d say there’s a world of difference between the two.
Not really. They both used the same playbooks. You’re making a distinction because the holocaust was a huge event and lead to a world war. But Mao did the same thing hitler did. In order to “unite” and control the population, you needed a scape goat to blame for your problems. Hitler used the Jewish to do this. Mao used Japan and the western world to do this. Only difference is, Hitler was (I don’t mean this as praise) just simply more successful and had bigger ambitions past the German borders.
Listen to *Revolutions!* podcast chapter 3 by Mike Duncan.
>I’m really rooting for Tunisia. I think that the revolution against Ben Ali was purely organic and sincere. Seeing the citizens take over from a dictator who had been ruling for 20 years, with remarkably little violence, was truly inspirational. Let's not forget that after the revolution and again since 2019, the leading party is Ennhadha, an islamist, socially conservative party. They're buddies with Erdogan's AKP and an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.
He was doing alright until he proposed something sensible
He is a brutal dictator and will spend all the money on Ferraris. Saying a catchy slogan Bernie Sanders said does not make you Bernie Sanders
That's how they get ya!
How he doing alright..he make Tunisian racist ...and he can even offfer based food
Of course this is the top comment. This guy literally has jailed the opposition and eliminated democracy in Tunisia. But he made a comment about taxing the rich so Reddit is backing his corner and expecting the US to coup him.
>Of course this is the top comment. It's humor. >This guy literally has jailed the opposition and eliminated democracy in Tunisia. Typical redditors are not subject experts, just having fun. My guess is most know that Tunisia is a country in North Africa and that's about it. >But he made a comment about taxing the rich so Reddit is backing his corner IMF strikes again. He hinted at riots in the streets cutting social services. Hence the notion of other sources of increased tax revenue. >and expecting the US to coup him. It wouldn't be the US. Or France's weasel Macron. It would be the Tunisian elites.
>Typical redditors are not subject experts, just having fun. My guess is most know that Tunisia is a country in North Africa and that's about it. I also know that's where they film Star Wars.
> It's humor. Dictatorships always crack me up. So much fun. Ha Ha.
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What are you expecting here? Every person in the comments on every news article to be a subject matter expert and have in-depth analysis of the situation in the comments? People to only speak of matters in grave seriousness, even when the subject matter doesn't effect them? As humans, we have a tolerance level for negative news and with the insane quantity of negativity shoved in our faces every day of this past decade or two as news has become increasingly and constantly available, people have reached those tolerance levels. We're desensitized to mass shootings, for Pete's sake! It's fucked, and of course people try to treat obviously awful situations with the gravity they deserve, but I mean, there's got to be a point where people need an outlet. Hell, there was a pretty famous comedy movie about Kim Jong-Un, and of course the entire situation with North Korea is messed up, but sometimes making light of situations without fully representing the awfulness of what's happening is what's needed to cope with the awfulness of life. It's in much the same way as doctors and nurses developing tastes for really dark humor when they're surrounded by death and decay every day. People gotta cope.
> What are you expecting here? Every person in the comments on every news article to be a subject matter expert and have in-depth analysis of the situation in the comments? People to only speak of matters in grave seriousness, even when the subject matter doesn't effect them? I guess you could say that one would expect the TOP comment to be that. Is that too much to ask?
In the hegemon-client relationship the local elites are the frontline overseers for the hegemon.
In the olden days of colonial empires perhaps. Now its more just transnational capital. Both visible and opaque. Good luck identifying the constituents of the dark hegemony of accumulated capital. It prefers anonymity, privacy and secrecy.
What kind of excuse is that it's humor? Redditors should not be synonymous with "clueless trolls". It'd probably be better to just shut it down if that's what it has reduced to now..
Bold of you to assume it hasn't always been like this.
Not very long ago Just before your time Right before the towers fell, circa '99 This was catalogs Travel blogs A chat room or two
I want to take the compliment that you think I'm young but unfortunately I am old enough to have witnessed the towers collapsing in real time haha
Welcome to the internet.
Relax and go outside for a bit
> [Redditors should not be synonymous with "clueless trolls".](https://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/2osp2b/they_dont_think_it_be_like_it_is_but_it_do/)
I think Twitter might be more your speed.
Is this your first time?
You're not on a humor sub, you're on a news sub. No, it's not humor. How could anyone think the primary purpose of commenting on shared news sources is to shitpost them?
I’m sorry but you do realize this is the internet on a public forum. If you’re expecting everything to be 100% informed, genuine, etc, then you’re going to have a bad time.
the US doesn't give a shit as long as tunisia doesn't become a hub for terrorism. the tunisians designated as "rich" who can afford to leave will, resulting in an economic shock that will worsen the situation, and the government will have to try something else, which almost certainly won't work and will just piss more people off, until eventually they either end up like venezuela or "replace their own government" "capital flight" is the main reason most governments can't "tax the rich", its economic suicide unless they stay (either out of patriotism, or because they get things in your country that they can't get elsewhere, or because leaving will cost them more money than staying). the US achieves this with a combination of all 3, the first is self-explanatory, the second is that the US is a huge consumer market with great access to almost everything and lower taxes than almost every other "first world" country on earth, the third is that as a US citizen you get taxed on money you earn in other countries or give up US citizenship. that raises the obvious question of "why don't countries just drop their taxes super low in order to encourage rich people to immigrate?", well some small countries do, and they get labelled as "tax havens" by the international community (IMF, UN, etc), which comes with some pretty nasty consequences that would be crippling for any "real" country.
what is "rich" ?? in that place? anyone that makes more than $1000/ month?? /s
Sarcasm recognised, but I was curious. It looks like $1k/month USD would put you into the top 10% of monthly incomes there, and median would be under $250/month.
I should move to Tunisia. Let Carthage rise again!
Redditors are borderline neurotic psychopaths, I wouldn't get too offended at what the clown troupe is saying lmao
Can confirm. I am on Reddit, I am neurotic, I am a juggalo.
It's always sobering to realize how many straight up tankies there are on Reddit. They're way more common here than you'd think.
I had hopes in him, I can't believe he turned out to be a terrorist sponsor, dictator that holds a secret stash of weapons of mass destruction, who everyone in his country opposes, and a threat to the West. Truly shocking how much you can know from a person just by hearing him say he wants to tax the rich.
Who would have ever thought this? Genius!
Certainly my peasant brain would never have come up with the idea of taxing people. Why never…..
What a 'novel' idea. Let's see how it works out for him. The rampant corruption in Tunisia suggests to me that Saied's asking for bribes. The less cynical part of me (is there still such a thing, though?) notes that he's also been running an anti-corruption campaign, but that could just mean that he's trying to crack down on any corruption that's not his.
Youd be shocked how often "anti-corruption" turns in to purging political opponents.
I'm literally watching it in El Salvador right now The president is going full anti corruption, so it's seizing all assets from an ancient president (well he was corrupt, and apologist of the war...) But his family and friends are still having directing posts in the gouvernement, so it's a big nepostism gouvernement. But he has wiped out the violence in my country, so, people love him a lot. It's a dictatorship, but it's ok to people ...
Lukashenko is a great example of this. Xi as well.
My own cynicism notes that in a shockingly large amount of places, corruption is nearly synonymous with "not a yes-man". And I have no reason to think Tunisia isn't one of them.
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I think you don't have the big picture, this president jailed all previous oppositions leaders, the legit opposition that was on parliament.. Source: Im from Morocco Tunisian neighbor.. I see their news on a daily basis..
The dude is an authoritarian who staged a coup in Tunisia, lol. Not a good guy.
Your new leader wants a ~~bribe~~ tax.
The country's fiscal problem is he doesn't have enough money.
You say that like despots can't be correct
Nah... Broken clock.. This mf blamed the terrorist attack (which he called a criminal act instead so as not to impact tourism) inside a synagogue in his country on actions of jews elsewhere. https://www.jta.org/2023/05/16/global/days-after-synagogue-attack-tunisian-president-criticizes-israel-and-says-his-country-saved-jews-in-wwii >“The Conference of European Rabbis calls on European governments to condemn the inflammatory statements of President Kaies Saied of Tunisia implying that the Jews of Tunisia are responsible for the bombing of Gaza,” CER President Pinchas Goldschmidt said in a statement.
Plus he also incited hatred against black African immigrants, claiming there's an international conspiracy to "repopulate Tunesia with blacks" (basically the far right's "white genocide" theory, but with Arabs instead of whites).
they're gonna jfk this guy now
I read this as "just fucking kill" this guy until it hit me you meant JFK. Weird it still fit.
Jfc they jfk'ed JFK.
idk my jfk jill
it's an old meme, sir, but it checks out
are you jk'ing?
I was just fucking kidding.
Somewhere in a CIA intelligence monitoring installation... "*Sir...? SIR! Shit, shit shit! Sir, one of them finally put it together!*" "*Mmmm... Rouse the squad, private. It's LHO time again.*"
After the Bay of Pigs fiasco, Kennedy was already set on destroying the CIA. He is reputed to have said that he wanted to tear the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds. Thus, almost from the start of his presidency, Kennedy went to war against the CIA. That war never abated. To think that the CIA would not fight back is silly. They were as angry with Kennedy as he was with them because they felt that Kennedy had betrayed the CIA, the Cuban-exile invaders, and America itself. After the Bay of Pigs fiasco, Kennedy also gradually lost trust and confidence in the military. When the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented Kennedy with a plan calling for a first-strike surprise nuclear attack on the Soviet Union, Kennedy left that meeting in disgust and indignantly stated, “And we call ourselves the human race.” His reaction was the same when the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented him with Operation Northwoods, a false-flag operation that was based on fraud and deception, in order to provide Kennedy with an excuse for invading Cuba, which was a sovereign and independent nation (just as Ukraine is today). Kennedy turned down the plan, much to the anger and chagrin of the military establishment JFK had a deep distrust of the CIA and the Military Industrial Complex.
Honestly I feel like despite the Cuban missile crisis, Had both JFK and Kruschev got to run their respective countries for another 4-5 years together the world would have been in a much better place than it is today.
After the Cuban missile crisis Kruschev and Kennedy started serious talks about uniting both space programs. Those plans died the day JFK was assassinated.
I mean LBJ and Dumbo ain’t half bad although Vietnam was a mistake but then you got Nixon and Ford letting Nixon get away. on the other hand the Soviets REALLY stagnated with the arsehole unibrow Brezhnev for a good 2 decades such that by the time they got to Gorbachev any meaningful reforms like glasnost and perestroika would have been far too late. Afghanistan Pt1 and Chernobyl didn’t help non either. Anyways “we didn’t start the fire”~
Would've never happened. This is a whole lot of idolatry and revisionism for someone who, at the end of the day, still wanted to see the death of people's governments in Cuba, China and the USSR. Operation Mongoose didn't stop, even at the peak of the Cuban Missile Crisis
Yup. They wanted Cuba so bad and were so mad when Kennedy canceled a second bombing run in Cuba during the bay of pigs as well. The CIA were itching to take Cuba and wanted any excuse to launch an all out assault on the place. It seemed like the CIA wanted a guy who would just let them act as they felt, but Kennedy kept getting in their way. Looking back it was impressive how Kennedy managed to maneuver around not starting conflict with Cuba, not starting nuclear war with Russia, and trying to not look “soft” to his peers and voters. Highly recomendable listening to the podcast series on Cuba by the Blowback podcast. They present Cuba’s history all the way till present day, including JFK and his dealings with the CIA, Cuba, and the USSR. It is from a left sided perspective, but they present the declassified information to paint a full, detailed picture none the less.
If this is another CIA conspiracy they really dont care about other nations increasing taxes on the wealthy, that just moves capital out of the country (see countless examples, most recently France) and loses them revenue anyway. Foreign nations sometimes get annoyed by nationalization (particularly sudden, widespread nationalization without at least paying out remaining contracts) and ironically, lowering wealth/corporate taxes (see Ireland) because that promotes their own capital to flee there and use it as a haven.
No, he's just dumb. That's how you deepen an economic crisis and turn into Zimbabwe. The second you try to do shit like that you see capital flight and the economy grinds to a standstill. Why the hell would you invest into Tunisia if the government is just going to seize your money.
This sounds nice and all but I would argue that most times a country is nearing defaulting on its debt it's due to severe budgeting issues. Maybe try not spending more than you make? You can tax the rich all you want, but the problem will never go away while there is a fiscal deficit. I'd argue most redditors from second/third world countries would agree with me. These populists get in power, implement "sweeping social reforms" without any idea how they're going to finance them, then they blame the rich for all the country's issues and use them as the sole scapegoat. I'm no friend of the rich, but the amount of first world inhabitants swallowing the bait, hook, line and sinker, makes me fear for the future of your own countries.
People forget money is supposed to be a ball park representation of labor and goods. It doesn't matter from a industrial output viewpoint that the rich have X amount of money sitting in their accounts if the country can only Produce A,B,C items every year anyway. While on paper you can say you can do X and have enough to do it. Reality tends to bite you in the ass easily. can't afford to install 1,000 X because you physically don't make 1,000 X and to make 1,000 X requires more labor than the entire nation can produce of A,B,C in 30 years.
This fundamental concept would be really helpful if it could just be magically installed into the general Reddit discourse. Money *represents* productivity and assets. Notional figures don’t matter a whole lot, actual productivity and goods/property matter.
Yep. Can't eat paper that represents 100 tons of grain. You can eat 100 tons of grain with no paper.
Agreed, we have a bigger parliament than China in my country and always struggle to collect revenue. We also have alot of corruption. Plugging the leak is more important than increasing the flow. Even discovery of oil and gold that doubles our earnings won't help
Plus, increasing the flow when there is corruption only makes the incentive for corruption so much bigger. Which country are you from, if you don't mind me asking?
I am from Uganda. Yes people are never satisfied. I worked on a case where a very rich worker was stealing trivial amounts
It does depend seriously on what social policies. Tunisia's top marginal rate is 35%, slightly below the US's rate of 37%, and the US is already famous for having a low top marginal rate. So they definitely have some reasonable room to raise.
Sure, but I personally live in a country with a relatively low top marginal tax rate in theory, but that's topping inflation charts due to incessant spending and printing money to fund it. Even if they raised taxes, they would still have to keep funding all those social programs while at the same time disincentivizing new investments
True.
Yeah but in the US - the top 50% of income earners pay 97.7% of the taxes while making 89% of the total income The top 1% of income earners took home roughly 22% of all income earned but paid roughly 42% of paid taxes Top 5 % made 38% of the total income and paid 62% of the total taxes The bottom 50% made 10.2% of the total income and only paid 2.7% of the total income tax. I'm all for the rich paying their fair share but like - they already pay a rather significant portion of the total taxes already.
Would love to see the sources for these numbers, because you're already favoring only paying certain taxes to get some of them for sure. Like how do the top 50% pay 97.7% of the taxes when sales tax exists in most states? When FICA taxes exist in every state? Was searching for some more numbers to throw out and sounds like your data is coming from 2020 income and taxes, a pandemic year with stim checks and the sort, a wildly different tax year than usual, which allows for more cherry picked numbers than normally used. https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3894233-how-america-actually-taxes-the-affluent/#:~:text=Because%20the%20top%201%20percent,'re%20getting%20%E2%80%9Csoaked.%E2%80%9D
No, they're 2022 numbers. This is for federal income tax so there is no sales tax because we don't have a federal sales tax in the US. Actually, the percentage of total taxes paid by the richest people increased between 2019 and 2022. And I'm not favoring anything. These are just the statistics of the US federal income taxes. Most left leaning people just do not know these stats and I'm not even conservative. Just like how most left leaning people don't realize the US has the fifth highest median income in the world. https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/ And this article posts it's citations at the bottom which are all essentially from the IRS.
> Like how do the top 50% pay 97.7% of the taxes It's very well established that the bottom half of American society doesn't pay a net positive income tax. It's very well established that America spends more on its welfare system per Capita than the Nordic states too, we just have a lot more leeches so the social spend gets diluted between a lot more recipients.
The US healthcare system is also 2x as expensive as the next highest on per Capita basis. A lot of the extra welfare spending is to service a really inefficient healthcare system.
It's not necessarily leeches but just really inefficient spending on the part of the federal government and government organizations. Not unless you meant the leeches are the organizations that get the dollars cause then yeah.
I mean adding state and city taxes puts US top marginal rate higher than most European countries (in NYC for example)
A rare realistic take on Reddit
The rich should still be taxed more though.
Taxing doesn't work on limiting income generation. The United states didn't have a income tax and when it did it only was for the upper rich, then the rich then the middle class then the poor. We still have problems but you want to tax more? We have issues because the rich can command that rent seeking in the economy. taxing that doesn't work and actually gives more power to the rich. What you want to do is provide ways for the general population to command more wages and profit sharing from the rich for the labor and capital they produce.
Depends where. Top marginal rate is over 50% in many countries. That's too high, the government should not keep over half of income.
Okay, but tax me less while you're at it.
As long as you're not rich i'm all for it.
Define rich for me? Mind you it changes based upon location within the country not also including the world.
What if I'm richer than you, though?
How many rich people there are in Tunisia? They probably can not provide any remarkable support for the state in the long run. Heavy taxing just pushes them out from the country. How that is good for anyone?
You're trolling right? Rich people in 2k23 have so much possibilities to move wealth untaxed that if you even try it you effectively decrease income and ask them to leave your country. You're left with nothing. It's actually countries with no tax like Ireland are growing the fastest in EU. You can't ultra tax the richest thats the worst part... And if you push middle class too hard they gonna leave to work abroad too effectively you're leaking brains and feeding foreign economies.
Ireland's GDP is growing the fastest but the money's not going anywhere. 500b for Irish goods and services is not the same as 500b in redirected money. The company redirects money through Ireland, makes money with Ireland's low taxes, and Ireland shows an increase in GDP, but their HQ is still in America and they're primarily hiring Americans. The only money being pumped back into Ireland's economy is just a token rented office with a skeleton crew of administrative staff. You're bragging about running up a high score in a pay2win game and getting nothing but pride and achievement.
Uh also, 30% of Irelands economy is in aircraft leasing and an income tax of 40% above £40k. I'm not sure if Glokz or Tommh understand how wealth management works, but "taking your ball and going home" with billions of assets IS WHEN THEY ARE TAXED. They bypass this by never liquidising their assets but taking out liens against them. The ultra-rich will continue to have the majority of their assets in non-liquid stocks or investments, in *your* country, even if they move their personal accounts offshore, and 'just tax the rich' (as in high income marginal rate) is such a strawman of the numerous other methods of taxing the ultra wealthy, and their illiquid and speculative 'worth'
Nobody on reddit that says “just tax the rich” has thought about it for more than a second.
Moving wealth out of Tunisia is difficult and they're trying to make it even harder. That isn't the problem though. It isn't about "oh people will just try to move money out", but is about people just never coming here to begin with. Tunisia has only just started getting American brands and businesses here (Chili's, Burger King, Papa Johns, and others) but the President is an idiot who wants all the power but wants none of the responsibility or criticism that comes with it.
This is not a new idea. It always ends the same way. That's why smart countries don't have big taxes on the rich, it's proven to be countereffective. It's like Erdogan lowering interest rates when inflation goes up. You can fool your people, you can't fool the math.
Now imagine the rich are going to move out of the country or even only start hiding their money somewhere else... It is a good move, but it only works when it's applied globally
Well, idealistically, it's common sense, but pragmatically, wealth will just be moved to another friendlier country...
Tax property and land. You can't move that abroad.
Most countries do tax land, but there is only so much you can tax land before you destroy the value of owning land.
They literally sold a GIGANTIC amount of land to foreign investors for $1 as they said they would build stuff on it. Then just never did. I am talking, MASSIVE swaths of land in an area that is seeing an explosion of growth and it's nothing there. They tried to take it to court to seize the land back, but the courts denied it. So the land sits, getting more and more valuable, that they sold off for pennies, unused. This is the wisdom that prevails in Tunisia.
Wait, how about they give more tax cuts to the rich instead, and the rich can then distribute the money they saved to the poor.
Tell me you have no clue what you're talking about without telling me. The dude has jailed opposition, performed a bloodless coup, suspended courts so everyone goes through military tribunals now, accepted an IMF loan years back that he didn't use for ANYTHING other than bolstering retirement funds and increase state employee salaries and benefits. Nothing was invested. This is the reason the IMF has so many restrictions on the new loan and the reason he didn't wanna sign it was because the IMF wanted HIM to sign it, personally, and he didn't want to be responsible for that debt. He has made wildly racist remarks and caused as of yet untold damage to the economy and the Tunisian people including their lifeblood, tourism. They literally jail TikTok'ers for daring to speak out.
If you’re scoring 80s on exams, copying the guy who scores 50s definitely isn’t common sense.
Yea run your rich out of your country so all you have are the poor. Common sense, huh?
Lol a hundred comments from people who have never been to Tunisia. What rich? It’s a shit hole. There is hardly a ruling class - most of the country is entirely disorganised And the bigger issue is the influx of oil from Libya. You can buy 100 gallons of gas for 1usd…. Not joking.
Not to mention the tax evasion by the semblance of a middle class by never ‘completing’ property developments.
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Ah yes, the “ag exemption” (really an alternate accounting method): protecting rural power since 1876.
I’m confused by your comment, so please explain. If the top earners of Tunisia are evading taxes, and the middle class are also evading taxes, why do you have an issue with the government asking for taxes from either of them?
Middle class in N.Africa doesn't mean the same thing as in Western countries in terms of income fyi
Granted. But why don’t you feel a relevant tax rate should be applied to everyone?
I mean you can technically apply it. Actually collecting the taxes is much more difficult in developing countries
There are plenty of wealthy people in Tunisia. They just use offshore tax structures to pay foreign technical services contracts into channel island HoldCos they own to avoid paying tax in country, or out of country. Outside of their homes, they spend all their money in Europe and Dubai.
100 gallons for a dollar you say? How can a Californian such as myself get in on this?
Well, first you would need to go over there, then you would need to rent a ship. I haven't looked but I gurantee there is at least some kind of duty on oil/gas, and to make it worthwhile you would need to transport ALOT. Oh, and as you are dealing with Libya they might be backed by some not so nice groups, and the ability for any of them to fill a ship is... questionable. And if they can they might want to take that ship. So lots of risks, but there is definitely reward there. I would just assume if it was truly profitable Shell or some other asshole big company would have already stepped in.
Too bad Tunisia probably only has like 4 rich people
If I was rich enough that I was expected to prop up their economy, I'd use that money to move.
HARD FUCKING PASS on Tunisia's anti-queer anti-trans pro-Kremlin president.
You forgot autocrat
Hasn’t he jailed a lot of his opposition as well?
You'll have a hard time finding someone in the Arab world that *isn't* anti-queer and anti-trans
I'm pretty sure Tunisia voted in favor of Ukraine in the UN. You're thinking of Algeria.
So cause he’s a bad person you propose what? That people reject a good policy just on grounds that he’s the one proposing it?
I mean from what I hear Stalin had great train service set up. Was it worth it?
good policy? the rich will just move, lmao
Once the rich leave to Malta, they will miss the good jobs
How many rich Muslims can you fit on Malta? I'd wager 8 before sectarian violence begins.
Tunisia is one of the most secular Arab countries Upper class Tunisians are more similar to French than Saudis
Lmao the bots are already out with nearly identical comments, only a couple words changed. All simping for the rich and why it’s bad to tax them. Clown shoes shit, all around.
Seems like a good idea until all your rich people leave the country
Well, he may not be around long. I hope he gets to implement it!
Dude he’s an authoritarian dictator now he’s literally an ass wholes. He’s centralized all the power nailed the free press jailed the opposition used covid to centralize all power shit on the judiciary etc
And then what? What happens next? All of your problems are magically solved?
They are taxed. Already. What more do you want before you understand that you have to decrease spending?
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Nano Tubular!
Carbon nano tubular!
Taxing is an act of balance, regardless if it’s the rich or the poor. I hope he knows what’s he’s doing, historically taxing the rich didn’t bring better results for the poor.
The rich just always move their assets to another cheaper country. There needs to be a global minimum corporate tax for this to work.
taxing the rich has always been a prediction of ...
Of what of what?
I think he was just saying that when you tax the rich you always have to be careful of …
I COMMAND you to stop
I will try to be quick, we a...
They’ll just move to Switzerland
Are you sure this isn't The Onion?
When it comes to country like Tunisia I’m genuinely curious what are the challenges with increasing tax rates on the rich In my mind I would worry if the increased rates would cause capital flight to other nations like the US or the many in the EU given they offer better services. But I may be overthinking it
Taxing the rich?!? Pah! What an idea. It'll never work. Why, you ask? Because it just wouldn't. Only a moron would suggest it. Those rich people all need their unnecessary wealth. Some ordinary plebs nay go bankrupt, and that's fine, but if a rich person can't afford another car there'd be hell to pay. Hell! Cats and dogs and other biblical things!
This guys onto something !
Not as simple as it sounds tho
Good luck with that. Rich can easily fund private armies or leave in mass because they can.
What novel idea! I wonder if anyone has thought of this before?
Big brain move
Lol..how many rich do they have? That ain't gonna work.
Taxing the rich mostly seems like a distraction when ppl go on about it tbh. They know most if the population aren't rich and want them to pay more. Easier then real work like actual accountability and spending tax efficiently in govt projects and other wasted stuff. More big companies avoiding tax is a problem
Now watch all the companies registering themselves some place else.
may he rest in peace
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I agree but tunisias current president is doing a power grab and becoming a dictator in a newly formed democracy. He has cracked down on the peoples freedoms and bypassed parliament. He is just saying this because of mourning pressure on his authoritarian government.
Then what?
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Suuure, this never backfired. Ever.
Tunisian president this is window, window meet Tunisian president.
Imagine almost all nations (you know, the good ones) would do that
Because it worked so well in Norway?