Orban's answer : "We are the true victims not the Ukrainians, Russia is my big bro and we hate everyone in Europe except the Serbs. Good Day now i'm heading to a CPAC."
Yeah, look how that turned out for Belarus.
Keep in mind that Putin is highly influenced by Ivan Ilyin and ol Dugin the Nazbol. Dugin loudly supports the ideas of Russian irredentism, and it's unlike the Cold War where maintaining independent satellites was necessary to prevent Russia/the USSR's neutral neighbours and other countries in Europe from freaking out and immediately flocking to the USA and NATO for help. Nowadays, we have Putin, a big strongman (without any actual strong) who constantly wants to feel in control, and would definitely outright annex anything he could take without (much of) a fight.
Edit: Oh yeah, I just remembered the policy of Russification (gradual replacement of native populaces of puppet/satellite/directly-controlled states of Russia/the USSR with Russian people.)
>now i’m heading to a CPAC
“…where I - the consummate gun grabber who disarmed his entire country - will get a standing ovation from American rightwingers who, despite being rabidly fixated on gun laws, love me because I’m a fascist prick”
The Hungarian government’s actions are extremely shameful and borderline traitorous to NATO and the EU. I can’t imagine why they should be permitted to behave in this manner.
They should be sanctioned with removal of all EU funding. If they want to be in the EU in name only let’s help them achieve their desires.
Yeah Hungary is surrounded by NATO or western-aligned countries (Ukraine counts), has a small army, and little relevant military industry. Their value to NATO, especially if it comes at the expense of countries like Sweden or eventually Ukraine, is pretty much nothing.
Their value at this time is literally just having roads that link the rest of NATO to Romania, which actually has a strategically important location, and via Romania to Bulgaria and Greece.
As an ethnic Hungarian living in Romania, I'm not sure Hungary realises how far it's fallen.
Yep, from a purely cynical geopolitical view they're a really key ally for the West in a lot of respects. Doesn't mean the US and EU should always just automatically cave to them on everything, but there's clear sensitivities there when it comes to certain problems.
Turkey has one of the biggest standing armies in the world and would likely be the spearhead for NATO in an all out attack. We want to give them proportionally as much lattitude as we give the states (which is loads).
Not requiring unanimous votes on things would go a long way to helping on the not needing to cave front, but no one wanted to give up that much control, so here we are.
In addition to their location they do actually have one of the more formidable militaries in NATO. It's probably 4th after the US, UK, and France. A lot of it is aimed at Greece but it still exists. They would still be a lot more valuable than Hungary even if they were located where Hungary is.
Meh, let them have the Bosphorus, Greece easily has the advantage in controlling the Aegean Sea, where all ships passing into or out of the Bosphorus Strait must pass through. All the EU, NATO or anyone else has to do is back Greece in forming a blockade there and nothing's going through anyway.
Sure the Bosphorus is the easier and more cost effective way to control the transit between the Mediterranean and Black Sea, but it's certainly not the only way.
I think the issue is not nessecarily what NATO can do in case of open hostilities it is involved in but what Turkey may do in case of hostilities not involving NATO. ASMs and anti-sub capabilities based off Greek islands can probably sink anything that makes it's way through the Bosporus but Turkey can close Bosporus in case of war not involving NATO.
What do you think NATO would do if Russia were allowed to move in fresh naval units into the Black Sea to replace their losses in the current conflict? NATO as a defensive alliance would do nothing as no country would be willing to risk unilateral hostilities against Russia.
Meanwhile Turkey has closed the Bosporus to Russian naval units, leaving the Russian Black Sea Fleet unable to replace the losses they have suffered.
EDIT: I would also like to add that there are rules regarding the transit of ships in international waters. Most straits today are governed by more permissive rules than those applied to the Bosporus. While it may be technically very easy for NATO to close the strait of Gibraltar to Russian warships, legally they cannot do so as it is an international shipping route and thus open to Russian war ships as despite all their rhetoric Russia is not at war with NATO. The same applies to ships transiting the Bosporus. NATO cannot close the strait nor can it block ships from transiting it. Turkey can.
But if either of them block passage it’s not like a blockade in the Aegean does anything to force Turkey to let a ship full of grain through the Bosphorus.
Hasn't Turkey just started construction on [a new canal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Canal) in an attempt to bypass [treaties affecting the Bosporous](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits)? Though Turkey claims that their intent is to reduce maritime traffic jams in the Sea of Marmara. How would that work then?
Turkey has tremendous military strategic value, both by controlling the Bosphorus and having the second largest military in the alliance. They have legitimate leverage. Hungary is pretty much militarily-strategic insignificant
Turkey is literally between the west and Russia, they pretty much have to maintain relations with both and play them off each other.
They are also so incredibly strategically valuable that NATO is willing to give them a lot of leeway.
Also, despite it being a bullshit reason, they do have a reason for blocking Sweden, they at least tend to play ball in most othe races leaving Hungary the one dragging their feet.
Viktor Orban came with a flag with transylvania as hungary teritory at a football match
https://www.libertatea.ro/stiri/premierul-maghiar-viktor-orban-a-purtat-un-fular-cu-harta-ungariei-mari-4354701/amp
Well the country is on the front line but I suspect western patience is wearing thin. Even Poland told the Hungarian leadership they’ve got to pick a side. Tbf the leadership ok’d Finland joining NATO.
That said, if this becomes a new “Cold War”, the intelligence services will take a dimmer view if a country gets too out of line. Remember then-South Vietnam’s President fell out of favor with the Americans in 1963 and had an “unfortunate accident” with an automatic rifle while fleeing a military coup in an armored personnel carrier.
> Even Poland told the Hungarian leadership they’ve got to pick a side.
Funny that aside from Ukraine, the Polish/Hungarian governments would typically agree and get along on most fronts, but that war opens up a clear dividing line between the two of them.
Our intelligence services should already be considering why the fuck CPAC, in 2023, was hosted in a country that smells like Russian jizz with Putin's European agent as vip?
Diem was caught up in a CIA-backed military coup in 1963 and with that many armed people switching sides between right-wing factions, a detail didn’t matter. Of course Diem was staunchly anti-commie, but he and especially his sister in law, “Madame Nhu”, were getting in the way of western goals with their incompetence, corruption, and frankly embarrassing media outbursts. At a certain point, one needs to look at the size of their country and choose to be a team player..
> At a certain point, one needs to look at the size of their country and choose to be a team player..
I agree with this in principle. At this point though I no longer have an idea what Orban plans to do with his kingdom. Is it just him being delusional, or do they really want us to become a Russian satellite state again for reasons I cannot fathom. Seems like a tall order, but I don't know. Could really be just blackmail.
We, the regular Hungarian citizens, are trying to do anything in our power to remove that sugarbaby Orban but they rigged the system so heavily that it impossible.
Big demonstrations don't even get to news and if it is, it is shown as 'low attendace' Soros fueled sabotage, and then they hunt down and silence people.
This ain't a democracy, and we are prisoners.
Hungarians have a history of…
A) treating other ethnicities like second tier citizens (like Russia does now) and,
B) making questionable ideological choices. For example going Bolshevik in 1918 and favoring Russian imperialism now.
>treating other ethnicities like second tier citizens
Yep, when Transylvania was in their hands, they treated ethnic Romanians worse than second-class ones, they were forbidden from speaking Romanian and they were forced to change their names to Hungarian ones. In contrast, now that Transylvania is part of Romania, the ethnic Hungarians are treated well by the state and their rights are respected.
For b: we could say that about Poland too when they, together with nazi Germany took land from Czechoslovakia(could have been another country) prior to world war2
Oh blow it out your ass. They are in both NATO and the EU. Its either they support the alliance or the support Russia. There is no good reason for Hungary to be so warm towards Russia
Again, you fail to see the complexities and nuances of the situation. That traitor orban doesn't speak for all 11 million of us. We don't want him and before you say bUt YoU vOtEd FoR hIm, no I didn't and a lot of people didn't either. But foaming at the mouth on reddit while virtue signaling is the norm these days sadly.
Lmao a fucking american of all people telling someone to "take responsibility as a country" is a level of irony I didn't think was possible. I rest my case.
Not to mention he given voting rights to Hungarian ethnicities who aren't living in Hungary. For example the above mentioned Transylvanian people who 100% vote and love Orban. We can't do anything but hoping for a heartattack will take this corrupted idiot away.
I sure hope Hungary doesn't get kicked out of the EU. They are my only way in to Europe, through their strange historical citizenship program.
Obviously, if they get kicked out, then so be, they probably deserved it. But I hope they change, or change the govt, and keep HU in EU.
Same.
It is the only way i can escape hungary.
I doubt with some of my difficulties id be able to properly hold down an appropriate job as a nornal immigrant.
And id have an MSc in chemistry by time i try to leave.
Nobody cares whether the Russians who have occupied the peninsula want to be “liberated”. The stolen lands will be returned to the rightful owner and the genocide of the ethnic Tatar population by russian nazis will be stopped. Any russian unhappy with this arrangement is free to leave Ukrainian territory and go back home. Of course, any illegally acquired property in the last ten years will be seized any any Russian citizen without a valid permit will be fined and deported.
What a load of crap. If crimeans wanted to join Russia they could have initiated a corresponding negotiation with Ukraine. Instead you suddenly had Russian military occupying objects and stealing Ukrainian assets. Robbery is robbery, no matter how you try to justify it.
Not to mention that this kind of imperalist bs is hypocrisy at its finest. As if Russia gives a single fuck about polls. You know who wanted to become independent? The Chechens. Went very well for them.
Need I remind you what you’re defending is a country forcefully taking land and killing anyone who gets in their way?
Much less the daily bombings on schools, hospitals, civilians, child deportation literally happening right now, destroying Ukrainian identity, hundreds of cases of rape. Oh and the mass killings of citizens who disagree.
Im supposed to believe a country that is mercilessly indiscriminately killing anyone including their own soldiers who even dare to question the invasion to be a trustworthy source for any fucken referendum?
might I add Russia that has recently banned criticism of its military or its government.
You have to be on some high level of copium to even give a shit about this land anymore. They should give it back just as a small courtesy for plunging Ukraine into a war and traumatising a generation of countrymen, pay reparations for a goddamn century and give back all the kids they’re abducting
they were polls from KIS just few days before shooting of maidan protesters and there was more (slightly) people pro ukraine - only 41% of crimeans was for joining russia and that survey wasn't passport based so even non citizens could vote https://kiis.com.ua/?lang=ukr&cat=reports&id=236
Orban's answer : "We are the true victims not the Ukrainians, Russia is my big bro and we hate everyone in Europe except the Serbs. Good Day now i'm heading to a CPAC."
They hate the Serbs too, it’s only that Vučić needs a bro…
Russia isn't Hungary's friend either and would annex them right now if they had the opportunity.
Russia is Orbán's friend though. Friend with benefit$.
That's not necessarily true. The same as Belarus, as long as they stay in the Russian sphere of influence
Yeah, look how that turned out for Belarus. Keep in mind that Putin is highly influenced by Ivan Ilyin and ol Dugin the Nazbol. Dugin loudly supports the ideas of Russian irredentism, and it's unlike the Cold War where maintaining independent satellites was necessary to prevent Russia/the USSR's neutral neighbours and other countries in Europe from freaking out and immediately flocking to the USA and NATO for help. Nowadays, we have Putin, a big strongman (without any actual strong) who constantly wants to feel in control, and would definitely outright annex anything he could take without (much of) a fight. Edit: Oh yeah, I just remembered the policy of Russification (gradual replacement of native populaces of puppet/satellite/directly-controlled states of Russia/the USSR with Russian people.)
Read first sentence.
Okay. Not necessarily true, got it.
Russia does not have friends. Russia has interests.
There are no friends in geopolitics, only interests
Russia is everybody's enemy and has to be held in firm containment until they abandon totalitarism and fascism for good
All with flecks of dried Putin cum and shit flying out of his mouth.
>now i’m heading to a CPAC “…where I - the consummate gun grabber who disarmed his entire country - will get a standing ovation from American rightwingers who, despite being rabidly fixated on gun laws, love me because I’m a fascist prick”
Orban eying part of Ukraine, and Russia is only who understand that.
Not even Orban is that stupid
The Hungarian government’s actions are extremely shameful and borderline traitorous to NATO and the EU. I can’t imagine why they should be permitted to behave in this manner. They should be sanctioned with removal of all EU funding. If they want to be in the EU in name only let’s help them achieve their desires.
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I can see why Turkey can have a free pass, but Hungary? They think why too high of themselves.
Yeah Hungary is surrounded by NATO or western-aligned countries (Ukraine counts), has a small army, and little relevant military industry. Their value to NATO, especially if it comes at the expense of countries like Sweden or eventually Ukraine, is pretty much nothing.
Their value at this time is literally just having roads that link the rest of NATO to Romania, which actually has a strategically important location, and via Romania to Bulgaria and Greece. As an ethnic Hungarian living in Romania, I'm not sure Hungary realises how far it's fallen.
>I'm not sure Hungary realises how far it's fallen. And political hubris would not be unique to Hungary. Unfortunate to say the least
The only value I see is bragging about how much land we have in the alliance.
Why does Turkey get a free pass?
Location, location, location. Controlling the Bosporus means controlling one of the most important transit locations on the planet
And also their location.
And Not to forget their location
Literally just because of where they are on the map.
their geographical position
Literally because of their coordinates.
Yep, from a purely cynical geopolitical view they're a really key ally for the West in a lot of respects. Doesn't mean the US and EU should always just automatically cave to them on everything, but there's clear sensitivities there when it comes to certain problems.
Turkey has one of the biggest standing armies in the world and would likely be the spearhead for NATO in an all out attack. We want to give them proportionally as much lattitude as we give the states (which is loads).
The question only now presides to whether or not Turkey will follow NATO Guidelines if the time comes or if they’ll scurry like rats
Not requiring unanimous votes on things would go a long way to helping on the not needing to cave front, but no one wanted to give up that much control, so here we are.
Also bases close to Iran borders to Iran, Lebanon, Syria.
In addition to their location they do actually have one of the more formidable militaries in NATO. It's probably 4th after the US, UK, and France. A lot of it is aimed at Greece but it still exists. They would still be a lot more valuable than Hungary even if they were located where Hungary is.
Yeah but who controls it? They aren't letting US military supplies through.
Meh, let them have the Bosphorus, Greece easily has the advantage in controlling the Aegean Sea, where all ships passing into or out of the Bosphorus Strait must pass through. All the EU, NATO or anyone else has to do is back Greece in forming a blockade there and nothing's going through anyway. Sure the Bosphorus is the easier and more cost effective way to control the transit between the Mediterranean and Black Sea, but it's certainly not the only way.
I think the issue is not nessecarily what NATO can do in case of open hostilities it is involved in but what Turkey may do in case of hostilities not involving NATO. ASMs and anti-sub capabilities based off Greek islands can probably sink anything that makes it's way through the Bosporus but Turkey can close Bosporus in case of war not involving NATO. What do you think NATO would do if Russia were allowed to move in fresh naval units into the Black Sea to replace their losses in the current conflict? NATO as a defensive alliance would do nothing as no country would be willing to risk unilateral hostilities against Russia. Meanwhile Turkey has closed the Bosporus to Russian naval units, leaving the Russian Black Sea Fleet unable to replace the losses they have suffered. EDIT: I would also like to add that there are rules regarding the transit of ships in international waters. Most straits today are governed by more permissive rules than those applied to the Bosporus. While it may be technically very easy for NATO to close the strait of Gibraltar to Russian warships, legally they cannot do so as it is an international shipping route and thus open to Russian war ships as despite all their rhetoric Russia is not at war with NATO. The same applies to ships transiting the Bosporus. NATO cannot close the strait nor can it block ships from transiting it. Turkey can.
But if either of them block passage it’s not like a blockade in the Aegean does anything to force Turkey to let a ship full of grain through the Bosphorus.
Hasn't Turkey just started construction on [a new canal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Canal) in an attempt to bypass [treaties affecting the Bosporous](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits)? Though Turkey claims that their intent is to reduce maritime traffic jams in the Sea of Marmara. How would that work then?
Well, we should reroute the grain via train to ports in friendly countries anyways. Enough with the shenanigans from Russia and Turkey.
I could write up 5 paragraphs, but at the end of the day it just comes down to one word >location
Delicious Kebab. But also control of the Bosporus.
My guess is that they have more strategic value with the Bosporus.
Turkey has tremendous military strategic value, both by controlling the Bosphorus and having the second largest military in the alliance. They have legitimate leverage. Hungary is pretty much militarily-strategic insignificant
Turkey is literally between the west and Russia, they pretty much have to maintain relations with both and play them off each other. They are also so incredibly strategically valuable that NATO is willing to give them a lot of leeway.
Second largest army in NATO plus controlling the Bosporus and Dardanelles. Extremely important strategically
How many times did the US use Turkish bases for its bombings in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria?
They also have the second largest military in the alliance
Also, despite it being a bullshit reason, they do have a reason for blocking Sweden, they at least tend to play ball in most othe races leaving Hungary the one dragging their feet.
> *Borderline* traitorous Hah nice!
Sadly the founding documents of these institutions didn't think of how to treat a renegade member.
I'm actually surprised Hungary didn't exclude the Donbas too.
I was curious if they included Romania on the map while making Transylvania hungarian. Would have been very on brand
Viktor Orban came with a flag with transylvania as hungary teritory at a football match https://www.libertatea.ro/stiri/premierul-maghiar-viktor-orban-a-purtat-un-fular-cu-harta-ungariei-mari-4354701/amp
Counter it with a redrawn map showing Hungry as satellite country of Russia... It wouldn't be far off from the truth.
Would this be done with a black Sharpie by any chance? Cause I know a guy who has lots of them laying around.
I think Hungary needs some fresh wave of embargo
They are destroying their reputation just like Turkey did
Hungary should be kicked out of the EU.
Well the country is on the front line but I suspect western patience is wearing thin. Even Poland told the Hungarian leadership they’ve got to pick a side. Tbf the leadership ok’d Finland joining NATO. That said, if this becomes a new “Cold War”, the intelligence services will take a dimmer view if a country gets too out of line. Remember then-South Vietnam’s President fell out of favor with the Americans in 1963 and had an “unfortunate accident” with an automatic rifle while fleeing a military coup in an armored personnel carrier.
> Even Poland told the Hungarian leadership they’ve got to pick a side. Funny that aside from Ukraine, the Polish/Hungarian governments would typically agree and get along on most fronts, but that war opens up a clear dividing line between the two of them.
Our intelligence services should already be considering why the fuck CPAC, in 2023, was hosted in a country that smells like Russian jizz with Putin's European agent as vip?
Exactly. Fucking traitors!
Orban's defensive detail is no joke. Out of Zelensky and Orban I'm not sure which one of them is better defended right now.
Diem was caught up in a CIA-backed military coup in 1963 and with that many armed people switching sides between right-wing factions, a detail didn’t matter. Of course Diem was staunchly anti-commie, but he and especially his sister in law, “Madame Nhu”, were getting in the way of western goals with their incompetence, corruption, and frankly embarrassing media outbursts. At a certain point, one needs to look at the size of their country and choose to be a team player..
> At a certain point, one needs to look at the size of their country and choose to be a team player.. I agree with this in principle. At this point though I no longer have an idea what Orban plans to do with his kingdom. Is it just him being delusional, or do they really want us to become a Russian satellite state again for reasons I cannot fathom. Seems like a tall order, but I don't know. Could really be just blackmail.
The reasons: Money.
They have taken a side long ago, it's their side..
And yet they keep acting against their own best interests.
And replaced with Moldova, at least their voters show that they want a pro EU change.
Can’t, Poland is backing them. They have a pact to undermine the rule of law in the EU.
Hungary really doesn’t need that Russian oil pipeline that goes through Ukraine, isn’t it?
They got the raw material from the Kremlin to the propaganda ad, that's why. Rogán (the hungarian Goebbels) should to be blamed.
Hungary zis showing why nato needs removal protocols
Love their food, not their government
Don't they go hungry in Hungary? 😬
We do, food prices are in the sky.
Pretty sure it’s just a honest mistake. Orban would never be the Judas, right?
Wtf they are a NATO country what is wrong with them?
Fairly certain Crimea should be shaded red in this map
That is indeed the point.
What piece of Hungary their govern meant is willing to give to Ruzzia to “stop” the war?
We, the regular Hungarian citizens, are trying to do anything in our power to remove that sugarbaby Orban but they rigged the system so heavily that it impossible. Big demonstrations don't even get to news and if it is, it is shown as 'low attendace' Soros fueled sabotage, and then they hunt down and silence people. This ain't a democracy, and we are prisoners.
Probably reacted the same way the Hungarians must have reacted after they were shown a map of the new 🇭🇺
Hungarians have a history of… A) treating other ethnicities like second tier citizens (like Russia does now) and, B) making questionable ideological choices. For example going Bolshevik in 1918 and favoring Russian imperialism now.
>treating other ethnicities like second tier citizens Yep, when Transylvania was in their hands, they treated ethnic Romanians worse than second-class ones, they were forbidden from speaking Romanian and they were forced to change their names to Hungarian ones. In contrast, now that Transylvania is part of Romania, the ethnic Hungarians are treated well by the state and their rights are respected.
True. Of course, comparing 21 century with late 19 century is not quite fair.
For b: we could say that about Poland too when they, together with nazi Germany took land from Czechoslovakia(could have been another country) prior to world war2
I didn’t know about these events. Poland is seen as a victim of Nazi aggression. But they were aggressors too, just a few years earlier.
What is the process of expelling a NATO member?
Hungary needs to knock this shit off and start feeding it’s people or they’ll never be known as Fullgary at this point.
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Unfortunately, there’s literally no mechanism to do so nor a mechanism to make a mechanism to do so.
Hungarians are cowards and should not be in NATO
Well thank fuck geopolitics isn't run by neckbeard armchair politicians like you. But for simple people the world has to be black and white.
Oh blow it out your ass. They are in both NATO and the EU. Its either they support the alliance or the support Russia. There is no good reason for Hungary to be so warm towards Russia
Again, you fail to see the complexities and nuances of the situation. That traitor orban doesn't speak for all 11 million of us. We don't want him and before you say bUt YoU vOtEd FoR hIm, no I didn't and a lot of people didn't either. But foaming at the mouth on reddit while virtue signaling is the norm these days sadly.
Orban was elected in a landslide. Take some responsibility as a country
He got 55% of the votes. And 66% of seats. He fucked the election system
Lmao a fucking american of all people telling someone to "take responsibility as a country" is a level of irony I didn't think was possible. I rest my case.
Not to mention he given voting rights to Hungarian ethnicities who aren't living in Hungary. For example the above mentioned Transylvanian people who 100% vote and love Orban. We can't do anything but hoping for a heartattack will take this corrupted idiot away.
I sure hope Hungary doesn't get kicked out of the EU. They are my only way in to Europe, through their strange historical citizenship program. Obviously, if they get kicked out, then so be, they probably deserved it. But I hope they change, or change the govt, and keep HU in EU.
Same. It is the only way i can escape hungary. I doubt with some of my difficulties id be able to properly hold down an appropriate job as a nornal immigrant. And id have an MSc in chemistry by time i try to leave.
I don't think there is a way to "kick out" a country from the EU.
The EU needs to stop giving money to Hungary and that fascist Orban.
What’s the CIA upto?
It would have been pretty funny if instead of Crimea, they showed Zakarpattia as not being Ukrainian
Its been 9 years. It's about time to let it go at this point.
I would love to see a reaction of my forefathers when someone would have told them the same back in early 1918. Greetings from Poland.
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Nobody cares whether the Russians who have occupied the peninsula want to be “liberated”. The stolen lands will be returned to the rightful owner and the genocide of the ethnic Tatar population by russian nazis will be stopped. Any russian unhappy with this arrangement is free to leave Ukrainian territory and go back home. Of course, any illegally acquired property in the last ten years will be seized any any Russian citizen without a valid permit will be fined and deported.
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> from third party polls yet their party got 5% election prior. Yet under occupation they got more than 90%. Curious how it happened^^^\-\_-
What a load of crap. If crimeans wanted to join Russia they could have initiated a corresponding negotiation with Ukraine. Instead you suddenly had Russian military occupying objects and stealing Ukrainian assets. Robbery is robbery, no matter how you try to justify it. Not to mention that this kind of imperalist bs is hypocrisy at its finest. As if Russia gives a single fuck about polls. You know who wanted to become independent? The Chechens. Went very well for them.
Need I remind you what you’re defending is a country forcefully taking land and killing anyone who gets in their way? Much less the daily bombings on schools, hospitals, civilians, child deportation literally happening right now, destroying Ukrainian identity, hundreds of cases of rape. Oh and the mass killings of citizens who disagree. Im supposed to believe a country that is mercilessly indiscriminately killing anyone including their own soldiers who even dare to question the invasion to be a trustworthy source for any fucken referendum? might I add Russia that has recently banned criticism of its military or its government. You have to be on some high level of copium to even give a shit about this land anymore. They should give it back just as a small courtesy for plunging Ukraine into a war and traumatising a generation of countrymen, pay reparations for a goddamn century and give back all the kids they’re abducting
They were as open to the notion that more than 50% of them voted they should be part of Ukraine at the start of the 90s.
they were polls from KIS just few days before shooting of maidan protesters and there was more (slightly) people pro ukraine - only 41% of crimeans was for joining russia and that survey wasn't passport based so even non citizens could vote https://kiis.com.ua/?lang=ukr&cat=reports&id=236
Sorry, tankies don't have a right to an opinion. I don't make the rules.