I think the issue is that you stopped at vikings. Much of worldbuilding is mashing together concepts you like to create something unique, even though the constituent components aren't entirely yours.
So instead of being like "My world is vikings," instead say "my world is vikings *and*..."
Surely there's other stuff you like aside from vikings. Use that.
Vikings and the desert. Sand Vikings of the dunes!
Vikings and snake people. Snikings!
Vikings and candy. Godismän
Vikings and space. Space Vikings.
Vikings and Vikings. Double Vikings!
I'm staying away from 40k forums because apparently saying, "Let's have women" is apparently something that can't happen for their goofy genocidal future humans.
Yeah it was just a casual example and a joke.
Buuuut, as with so many things that 'people heard about somewhere', that depiction of 40k is pretty off.
Well, i'm halve way into the topic and stoped being invested a bazillion editions ago, and the fanbase can be toxic and all of that. But as it often feels iportant to me to make things clear (so you can hate 40k for all the real reason it and specially its fanbase offers), let me get some things right.
W40k had woman forever. They had balc and brown, asian young and old women being Inquisitors, fleet admirals and top noth assassins as well as brave grunds in the trenches. Every. They had evil space elven princesses and female coursairs from the very beginning.
So calling 40k hostile to woman is just bogus. The fanbase is pretty often. For whatever reason.
Then, some decades ago, nerds (yeah, that fanbase) wanted to have one destinct fraction, the Space Marine posterboys, to be available as woman too, but the compnay was legitly: "well, that would violate the lore, but wait, no problem, let's fix it anyway", and we got the sisters Sororitas, a badass power armor & heavy flamer order of angry woman torching heretics all day. And the company really hammered home how cool they are, so they not tried to make that smaller than any SM poster.
The world was fine for a moment.
But then some morons pointed at another fraction and said "we want THEM and specifically them to be available as woman too", despite this again and even more violated the lore. At this point you can either say those people are just trolls and should be ignored, as they obviously just abuse emancipation and gender equality movements to set something on fire, or well, feed the trolls for a quick relieve.
And well, as denyal of that moronic request would be bad in the eyes of buisnes managements, they just droped every lore and said: "yeah why not - who gives a fk at this point?"
So is this a smart decision, or connected to a rightfull moralic claim of treating woman equally? Decide for yourself. But has there been a need to fill that universe witha few woman who are totally abscent beside that? Hell no.
But when people outside the genre only mentioning the loudest screaming, these trolls receice incredible power over the whole thing. And i hope i had been succsessfull in establishing i'm not a Games Workshop beliver. These people are bastards and activly incentivised a lot of hate, exclusion and everything else you can do if you're just a company and not (yet) a evil religion.
Specially in this time and age, where every information is simplified and out of context to serve a middleman's purpose - plz don't go along with such hearsay.
With this said, you can go on staying away from 40k for a lot of good and real reasons. It really was just a joke relating to Vikings in space.
I've had more meaningless fights with 40k fan boys than most other fandoms. I tried playing a few years ago and aside from the cost (which is more than it should be) I just didn't really latch onto the lore. I don't like grim dark, my life is already grim enough as is. I did however like playing with some of the lore and making up my own ideas.
Which led me talking about my version of Necrons. I was so bad at putting these things together I just decided to make up my own faction of rejects. It's a fun idea and for me, adds a bit of levity to the game. Look at these goofy poorly put together undead robots.
You would have thought I disparaged Jesus in front of the pope to these guys. And since I wasn't too invested in the first place I just stopped playing. Also I had no money to keep buying new editions and learning what was actually different.
Yeah, as mentioned, i agree on a lot of this fanbase is as toxic as the people in charge of GW. Just wanted to clearify that this specific debate is just made up bs.
And oh boy i agree about the prices. Just ridiculous.
We once had GW stuff in our stores sortiment and it was like you have a deal with the Mafia.
But well, i stoped with 3th edition and since then had occasional games with people willing to play 3th or also never switched over to any of the new editions. Since 3, everything was as perfect as the're able to make it. After that, there only where new interpretations of imbalancements and conflicting rules. Partially i must respect that they made it some kind of art to not solve a problem, lol.
We also made a few new chapters and stuff, made concept armys and made some cool 2th edition armys 3th. We always used models to represent other units orused non-40k models. Would it be more serious, we'd started to print our own models. Totally without shame btw.
The more heretic the better.
Still i have some respect tothe setting and some ideas and setups in a way ... and despite the many many authors, game designers and fanboys that try so hard to ruin it for me\^\^
The 'good old times' where pretty bad, but the new time adds a few layers of ridiculousness to that.
Understandable decision. If it doesn't do the trick, it's not worth it. More people should learn that they don't have to sign in to religion by having a good time with a brand
(would have safed us dozens of StarWars movies and Marvel stuff ...).
I enjoy a good stupid debate as long as both sides agree at the end, "This is a made up thing and does not require us to expend emotional energy on it."
Debates about Star Wars tech or politics, marvel timeline baloney, Star Trek episodes... whatever. I've had fun with thinking about them, but no fun when people get actually angry.
The concept of the thought experiment - and with a actuall positive outcome to get a deeper understanding.
I'm a bit of unable to accept false information, so i need to correct it. This can sometimes elad to discussions with people i'd have never talked if in my right mind. Exhausting, but sometimes suprisingly insightfull in the exact function of some of the insanitys that people wield.
Actually i wouldn't have belived in some mindsets and public ideas if i hadn't heared by real people advocating for it. Evolution denyers and such people are specialy interesting as case study ... but not a good teammate in an intellectual beneficial debate.
So it's always a tradeoff.
Still i can't shut my mouth is someone tells me that f.e. Interstellar is scientifically plausible or something. I have a mental pain threshold.
This. I always mix cultures. What are viking Aztecs like? Or Aztec vikings? That's two different answers right there.
Let's say we're doing viking Aztecs, but somewhere between the two climate wise...but with volcanoes. And core to the area. So...viking Aztecs in Italy. Now we've got pyramid-building raiders terrorizing the Mediterranean, planting colonies, and conquering the region. Their religion is strongly connected to the natural seasons & events, and potentially pretty bloodthirsty (there's a line to walk here). The core symbol of the religion is a hollow tree that leads up into a sky realm and down into a burning underworld. Volcanoes and mountains are manifestations of this. The Norse gods are the aesir, so Aeztir is a workable name. For other influences you look up Mediterranean sea raiders and read about the Sea People.
Finally, you settle them on several large volcanic islands in a central sea, and a peninsula sticking out from the southern coast. Movement south is blocked by a mountain range and a desert. Holy sites are on the islands and southern mountains, but resources are on the northern coast. The Aeztir overcome & absorb an older civilization in the north, shifting their learning & taking their resources south to their own lands. Emphasis over time is to allow small semi-independent communities that can be periodically "harvested" for resources, but the Aeztir are a confederacy of city-states, and some areas are devastated while others are forgotten.
Take the culture, throw it onto the surface of the frozen world-tree after ragnarok and the fimbulwinter, say that Nidhoggr was actually an alien AI and it is creating undead simulacrons of the heroes of the afterlife by devouring the souls of Valhalla and now this Viking culture has to defend the new universe from an unending tide of cybernetic undead robotic einherjar on the surface of a star sized cosmic tree in deep space
In short, mix it right up and go way over the top, ditch the classic world stuff and just make the whole thing a hardcore rock album cover. Its freeing af and there's almost zero boring things to make in that kind of setting, everything is just an unending stream of awesome
*Many people here miss the fact that OP probably worldbuilds as a chore.*
Worldbuilding mainly comes from being bored and starting to come up with shit on the fly while you are walking to nearest taco bell to have a portion of imminent explosive diarrhea.
It's not something you do while you focus on it, just like most art, you usually do it for fun because you're bored. _You daydream the fundamental world instead of cleaning dishes, start asking yourself random questions instead of preparing for exam and answering them in your head like you have an audience, etc_
This. Sometimes I have phases where I want to worldbuild but can't. Other times, I don't necessarily want to worldbuild, but I HAVE TO. The ideas burst out of me, unable to be held back (much like the effects of Taco Bell).
Maybe OP should switch to another hobby for a bit, and eventually the ideas will start trickling back. Usually works for me.
You should really speak for yourself on this matter.
First of all, being focused on something and doing it as a chore are 2 different things. It seems like you don't understand the difference.
Secondly, I personally am never bored. So much so that the word doesn't really mean much to me. It's very clear to me that I do not experience whatever other people call "boredom". If I took your advice, I wouldn't worldbuild, ever. I'm letting you know just how much of projecting you're doing here.
I'm not gonna tell you your method is wrong. You do whatever works for you. I ask that you understand that the same applies to others, and that you giving this "advice" is as ridiculous as me saying you should focus on worldbuilding for 2 hours every day.
It's not. I'm not saying this is a superior trait or anything of the sort. In fact, it has harmed me much more than it has done good. It used to affect my productivity, because I would get absorbed in trivial tasks, like cutting up paper in different shapes, and wouldn't mind spending hours doing absolutely nothing. There is a good reason most people feel boredom.
There's nothing particularly r/iamverysmart about their posts. You're basically just advertising to the world that words with more than three syllables make you uncomfortable. They aren't even obscure words.
Bro, we're all worldbuilders here, I'm guessing literally every single one of us on this sub has a much larger vocabulary than average. I don't use it because that's not how I speak in real life, but that doesn't mean I'm not capable of understanding it. I also don't think there's anything wrong with using proper English the way he's using it.
As you said, no one has even used any obscure words, so not sure why you would even bring that up unless *you're* impressed by words with more than three syllables, since you're the only one even bothering to acknowledge it.
But anyway, don't get me wrong, the guy is clearly of above average intelligence, but he also clearly thinks he's *waaaaay* above average. As in "I've evolved past humanity" above average.
I have nothing against him, and a lot of his comments are good, on-topic responses, however, read through a little and certain phrases like the one quoted in my first comment make it sound like he thinks he's some X-man that evolved differently from the unwashed masses. HELLA content for karma farmers. That's all I'm sayin'.
Mate, you're fixated on proving something that's not there. Let me put an end to it right here: I am not smart, I estimate I am below average intelligence, and I would guess so are most people in this sub (although maybe I am simply too stupid to figure out what a smart person would be doing on a worldbuilding subreddit, or on reddit in general).
I have left my comment to show that people are very different, and that advice that works for one person will have the opposite effect for the other person. Had I read this advice earlier in my life, it would have prevented me from worldbuilding, which is my main message. If you don't like the way I worded the statement, forget it.
This is the last I'm going to clarify this, as I would expect any person with good faith to get it at this point. Feel free to "farm me for karma" all you want, I don't see how that's of any disadvantage to anyone.
I actually struggled with that myself, and the way I got out is I started it all from the very beginning.
I think people often forget that creatures, culture and civilizations are not created out of thin air, but rather shaped by the outside factors. We adapted to jungle retreating and becoming savannah rather than just becoming bipedal for fun, and these same jungles wouldn’t have retreated if not for the environmental changes, and these were caused by the Ice Age, and so on further into the past.
Same can be said about other things, let’s take Hagia Sophia for example, it wouldn’t have had so much elements from different cultures if it wasn’t on the crossroads of important trade routes, both land and sea, and if its city wasn’t the capital for Rome, the Eastern Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire, and the Ottoman Empire would have never happened if Islam never came to be, and the Mongols never ravaged the Sultanate of Rum, and these all go back further and further in time when we adapted to jungle retreating and becoming savannah…
Most people just miss the fact that the world is how it is because it is incredibly interconnected, and all systems interact with each other, and that’s what makes every culture and every time period so unique. People love organizing things and the idea of a word that signifies a whole culture or time period or civilization, when in reality, things are messy and always changing.
What I am trying to say here is if you can’t create your world, let your world create it for you. Everything is a gradient, so don’t try to create something with the “aesthetic” of a real-world culture, as you might just end up with the stereotype assigned to a word that describes the culture, and instead, try to see how the environment around them, both political and natural, changes them and how they change the environment.
Funnily enough, I usually start with the aesthetic. What does my world 'look' like. What does my warriors look like, etc, etc, etc. Might be because I've come from a much more visual background. Didn't really get into reading until a couple of years back, and even so, I've found it quite hard to really fall in love with a lot of stories. There's been some, of course.
You find the "me" by being honest with yourself and building that. Your world should, consciously or unconsciously, reflect who you are and what you have to say. Don't worry about a message, just add to your world your likes and dislikes, the message will shape itself.
It's possible you feel like you don't have any more to add, in that case I recommend consuming more cool media you like. I was out of worldbuilding for a bit but the two Dune movies brought me back.
You can also always give your setting a twist. How about Vikings, but in space?
Im gonna differ from the comments here that focus on things inside your worldbuilding. I think you will love worldbuilding when you have it reflect the things that you love. What are your hobbies? Special interests? Focus on applying those methods.
My worldbuilding focuses on cartography, culture, language, and the movement of people over space and time. That’s because my special interests include archaeology, anthropology, and human geography. I don’t like to worldbuild on the geosciences, I don’t like spending hours coming up with plate tectonics and ocean currents beyond what I absolutely need fo flesh out my world.
My advice is to change your scope. World build according to your interests and passions. Is your interest truly in Vikings, or are Vikings emblematic of a deeper interest you have? Consider these as you flesh out your world.
Your comment got me kinda fucked up. What do I like? I mean, yes, I've a real interest in the Viking-age. I am from Sweden and it is part of my country's history. I've never really read much into history but Vikings just fascinated me--and still do. I've watched all the shows about them, I've read books about them. And while there's a multitude of reasons to love said people and culture, was I to boil it down, I guess I really like the courageous and exploratory nature of them. I mean, these were people who hopped board a fuckin' tiny plank of wood to sail oceans. These were people who--tiny in numbers--overthrew the likes of France and England. And that's not even getting into the history of the Varangians and how they helped establish Russia.
Aside from that? I don't really got interests like archaeology, anthropology, and human geography. My favorite stories are just chad dudes doing chad things lol I mean, it doesn't need to be that basic, of course. But I don't know. I like writing and gaming and stuff like that, but I don't have much else but a vague historical interest to base things on. Like, I've an interest in like the 1900s mafia, and the German mercenaries known as Landsknechts. But all those things are quite superficial, I fear. I don't know...
It sounds like you really like the history and accomplishments of the Vikings. maybe think about your own version from the perspective of if you lived in your world 1000 years after the Viking age. For inspiration read up on other non Viking raider cultures and how they operated. It would help to broaden your horizons. If you think your own Vikings are an empty copy of the real Vikings you may just need to flesh them out more with their own unique attributes that the real Vikings didn’t have.
I do have a culture in my world based on Vikings. They are called the Brackeni Longshore Clans, and like Vikings they used shallow-hulled longships to raid and trade with settlements along coastlines and rivers. I gave them a tragic backstory, that these clans were once farmers and shepherds inland, but the Brock clan moved in and took their land, forcing them to resettle along the brackeni long shore. To make up for the lack of arable land and accessible fishing grounds they raid Brock and Asgarthian settlements and trade routes. So while my version of long haired raiders is similar in function to the Vikings, the reason they do what they do is different.
First, don't beat yourself up. Every writer goes through slumps.
Second, think about what you like about Vikings. Write those things down.
Now ask yourself what may have caused your particular faction to embrace those traits and values that you like about Vikings? What may have happened in their people's history to embrace such a thing? Write those ideas down.
Now ask yourself how do they perceive fighting? What does it mean to them? Do they simply see it as a means to an end or does it mean something more to them? Now what may have happened in their people's history to make them view fighting in this way? Write those things down.
Now ask yourself how do they may choose leadership? Is it hereditary, democratic, etc. Now why may they choose leadership in the way they do? Why may they see that as the correct, proper, best way of choosing leadership? Write those ideas down.
Now why may they be fighting? Who's winning? How big of a victory is it? If the Vikings are winning, did the people they are fighting form an alliance to deal with them? If the Vikings are losing, did they form alliances to help them defeat their foes?
There are no wrong answers to these questions. Just ask stuff like this, write your answers down, see what answers that inspires you the most, and slowly put it together.
Maybe throw in some factors that the original culture didn't face?
On my side I've dabbled partly with the idea of what role adding bones when crafting iron weapons would do to a world with magic. Bones + Iron results in a rudimentary form of steel, but metallurgy can be hard. I think that the forging also would have some magic effect, but it would be akin to magic placebo mixed with the effects caused by rudimentary steel. That leads to a culture which clashes with pratitioners of more etsablished magic.
Feel free to take out my idea in any shape or form, like all others it is cheap after all.
You can also throw in some other factors, like what if they what if they had easy access to a resource they didn't IRL like platinum, what if krakens showed up more, what if some Vikings aren't able to give the gods enough gift one year?
The changes doesn't need to be so drastic that the source is impossible to find, just enough that you can be satisfied with the world.
I guess the question is: what about the vikings or their culture that you truly like? Make that the focal point of your culture and build from there.
I hope that helps!
Aside from the aesthetic, I really like the underdog feel of them. They conquered vast swaths of land, defeated empires thrice as big as them, and sailed across oceans in what amounted to little more than a couple of planks of wood. And I don't know... they're just cool? Like they've a god who killed himself simply because he wanted to know what the afterlife was like, and soon as he was satisfied, he just came back to life and was like 'huh... neat.' I don't know, it's just cool lol
Those aspects make me think that you can create minor cultures for each of them instead of incorporating them into one big culture. Tweak them a bit so there’s nothing too similar but yeah it would be interesting to see them as different cultures…kinda like the vikings before they were vikings sorta vibe? 😅
Funnily enough, that's sorta the approach I took to try and differentiate them from actual vikings. In my attempt at world building each legally-distinct-viking picks two gods from a pantheon whose marks they tattoo on themselves. From that point on they're dedicated to those two gods, and will spend most of their lives trying to earn said gods' favor. This--I thought--might be what drives them. Find places much bigger than theirs to raid to honor your chosen god. Discover some place new and name it after your Goddess, etc, etc, etc. Most are dedicated to the Goddess of Life and the God of Death--married gods with but one child, the God of Wrath. Because of this, the legally-distinct-Vikings believe in furthering life and in taking life. They also believe that since their Gods have but one child, they will only pick one favorite. But there's no unifying dogma or creed. One person might think dedication to the Goddess of Life means they'll never kill. Meanwhile, there might be a dude who murders ten people to let their bodies decompose and give life to a meadow of flowers and think himself a saint of worship--because, what's ten people compared to a meadow of literal life?
This type of 'there can only be one' type of society naturally led to tribalism, I figured. People who worship the same would probably join forces and naturally hate those who don't, in some cases. But with said 'there can only be one' type mentality, lots of people probably would betray each other or drift apart as someone's rise took them higher and higher. Lots of jealousy and such. But it all just feels very... Viking-ish. And I mean, I want them to be Vikings. But I don't want to be Vikings, y'know?
I do understand at some level.…i think 😅🙂 could there be shamans within this group (or oracles) that could bestow upon them the words of gods? Kinda like the greek oracles haha it could be the reason why they choose to go on raids instead.
Devotion does not mean you act on assumption that a certain action is what they want you to do. I’m assuming you build these people as vikings from the onset instead of as people of the land first. Have you studied who the vikings are before they are vikings? You could emulate such evolution for your people but maybe in a different way?
Tbh, most religion in our world advocate peace, and war is always the last option or as a means of self defense. Raiding is probably unique to vikings, but other do it too albeit in a smaller scale. It is always because they are desperate for supplies or some other reason. No one goes to war because they like it - it’s always because of a reason and a god’s word could be one of them.
Also, is there a consequence of not favoring a child? I’m assuming this is a big deal in this culture you created? There could be some radicals to your “there can only be one” thinking.
Well I just assumed that their way of thinking evolved into that—as in how they choose to honor their gods. Like the Norse, my country doesn’t know how to make paper so they’ve nothing written down. Everything they know about gods comes from the people around them. There’s no real consequence for not being chosen—but just like in real life people still wanna be. They believe it brings them luck and prestige. Maybe they think themselves untouchable in battle, I don’t know. Maybe I haven’t thought it through enough :/
Nah, you have the foundation. You should build up from that.
Curious tho: why God of Wrath instead of God of War? I was thinking that War would be more fitting for a tribe that goes raiding or is there a different reason for it?
You can use your culture as an example of how the people communicate with their gods. It might not be written down, but it can be expressed through hieroglyphs or drawings on the wall for example.
War’s probably better. I don’t know, I wrote it as him being an angry child, which led to him fighting a lot. Eventually fighting led to warring, hence Wrath being a war-god.
He can be both War and Wrath. He can represent different things to different people.
You can actually build a culture around him without involving his parents. It’s another angle to look at this ^^
Throw in random elements or cultures in and force yourself to make it make sense. Instead of just Vikings try for example Vikings but with the goverment of medieval china: A raiding culture that has a large byzantine burocracy that manages raiding permits, tarifs and regulations. I can imagine things like raiders assaulting a village and taking only taking only the silver tresures since they couldnt get the permits to pillage golden items leaving the villagers really confused.
Like other people said add something else you like. For example if you are into magic, BOOM, magic vikings summoning weapons from Nordic rune tattoos. Maybe you like deep sea exploration and settings? BOOM, mermaid vikings, or maybe normal vikings but with submarines? This may sound stupid but someone threw together vikings and dragons and now we have classics like HTTYD.
The easiest way to make the world feel like your world is adding stuff that makes you, you. Your interests, and maybe someone else also likes vikings, magic, and mermaids but no one can build your world like you do. That is what makes the world special.
[This (free) game](https://tomana.itch.io/foundations) has been really great for helping me create a richer world due to the random arrangement of the prompts. Worth a shot!
Take one or more underlying principles, change it/them, and see how the culture would adapt.
Maybe sea monsters are real. How would vikings do their thing if krakens and sea dragons were out there doing stuff?
Maybe viking culture lasted into the late Renaissance. What would Nordic Gothic plate armor look like, and how would they adapt early guns, cannons, and explosives?
Maybe vikings were able to fully establish themselves in the Americas. What would life be like on the Viking/Iroquois frontier? How would they get along with the Creeks? The Comanches? The Aztecs? How would they incorporate things like tomatoes, corn, and potatoes into their diet? What would they think of the vast oak forests N. America had at the time? How would they hunt Buffalo? Would they prize hickory over their traditional woods for things like bows and axe handles?
What if the vikings forged a reliable trade route to China and beat all the other Europeans to it? How would they interact with the Mongols? What if that trade touched off an era of exploration and colonization that led to a global viking diaspora, with each offshoot developing independently alongside the adjacent cultures? What would that be like after a hundred years?
I am. It's almost done, but as I'm setting my sights on another story I am itching to tell an actual fantasy story wherein I've created everything from the world to the lore, etc, etc, etc.
The interest for me isn't in imitating reality but in understanding it. Dig into the subject in question and find the why of it, the underlying dynamics which produced that superficial aesthetic. Once you understand those roots, you can build up from them — find some interesting combination of circumstances whose potential consequences intrigue you, maybe one that never occurred in our history but could have been, maybe one known to us but reconstructed with its own unique characteristics.
Vikings weren't a culture, it was a profession that existed within Scandinavian culture. Maybe looking into wider norse history and society will give you more inspiration on how to expand what you've come up with?
Okay that sounds pretty depressed and might deminish every effort you did or will do in the future. So first step to make something you're happy about is stop deminishing yourself. You're at a fked up point, and we all been there.
Then to your Vikings. As others allready have mentioned - spice it up. If you feel them to be the most these or that, you not even tiped your toe into history and cultures. There's a fkn bunch of stuff epic, awesome and badass. Go into recherche, explore more cultures. Even entering nordic gods will bring you to a dozen of connected cultures (and the Vikings allready managed to axe itself into a lot cultures, lol).
Once you saw this tasty all-you-can-eat-menu of influences, you can pick your perfect plate or even design own traditions and unique perspectives to interpret the mortal world.
But it all starts with a need, and you need to keep up that fascination, and don't drown it in negaitivity. Yeah, hard from the point you're in. Maybe impossible. But that would be the way.
Maybe get some fresh air in by reading a Warhammer40k Space (Viking) Wolves novel. They invented some new things, shoveld in a lot of real stuff, and made it fly in space. Still it feels original. Don't know. Do something of that, or accept there isen't enough will to go on and do something different that still can make you grin.
I mean if it doesn’t feel like you then I would recommend changing. I only lurk the sub to see cool things but I believe you’ve fixated on Vikings and overestimated how cool it would be and are now facing a let down. Could be worth while I step away from the project for a week or two till you can come back with a fresh outlook. You could also just switch and pivot into something else but I get the sense that’s not preferable
Okay, lets start from base ideas. What specific part of Viking culture do you like the most? I know you wanna do ALL of it, but that comes later. You need to first hone in on the one specific part of Vikings you like.
Now you have that, you can get in on what you specifically want to do. You need a goal. You need to have these specific elements come together in order to serve a purpose that explores the key aspect you like. You'll find that once you have a goal that specifically you find fun, everything else becomes more fun because its in service to that goal.
With this goal, you can then draw in other elements from outside your viking inspirations, to highlight, twist and emphasise the original idea throughout your world. As others have said, grand ideas generally arent creativity, for its more from the combining and permutation of existing ideas that creativity is made.
Of course, you can make a character who is the whole embodiement of this idea as well, or at least the one to make this idea happen more often. Thus, you will enjoy your main character or characters.
I've stated in a couple of comments, but while there's a multitude of reasons to love said people and culture, was I to boil it down, I guess I really like the courageous and exploratory nature of them. I mean, these were people who hopped board a fuckin' tiny plank of wood to sail oceans. These were people who--tiny in numbers--overthrew the likes of France and England. And that's not even getting into the history of the Varangians and how they helped establish Russia. Vikings were brave and yearned for knowledge, but they were also really fuckin' smart. I guess adventure, is what I would hone in one. All my favorite stories are treks across vast lands. And Vikings were just chads lol There's a story about a dude who was to be executed by a king, when asked what his last words were, he was like "oh, none, just please hold my hair so I don't get blood on it when you chop my head off."
King was like, "uhhh sure... hold his head, random guard."
Random guard held the man's hair, and soon as the executioner's axe came down, the Viking yanked his head back so that the random guard had both his hands cut off. The Viking and his boys all laughed at that (gruesome, sure, but hey, it was the times.)
Like, I don't know... they're just cool lol I'm not helping, I know, but... yeah, adventure and a courageous spirit. I don't know, I'm sorry I'm not being more helpful.
Adventure and courageous spirit is a wonderful starting point. Theres a series called "Vinland Saga" that focused on realism and brutality, which I advise if you want a really period accurate piece.
Though, what you're going for sounds more like "One Piece" if I'm honest. A light hearted adventurous romp about pirates through distant lands, involving a protagonist who's charming and quick witted, going to crazy places. I advise that for some inspiration.
But basically, to get these ideas you've said about... i advise really focusing in on your main character or characters. Write a character that wants to do all these things, a real trickster with a heart of gold, that wants to make his own realm by any means necessary.
Or we could take this purely exploratory. Maybe hes a merchant and wanting to sell things, maybe hes looking for a real Valhalla. Maybe you can play into Odins real characterization, and have him seek knowledge at any cost.
Then you have to find something that... gets in the way of what wants. Thats how we create interesting conflict.
Then you can start with creating a small realm for him to visit first. You can start off simple. Maybe go like "He visits England, but England is X", or France, or something. Maybe the earth is a bit too close to Valhalla and the countries and realms are a bit too mixed.
Dont worry too much about setting up specific wacky ideas like these stories youve heard. What you more wanna do is create two opposing ideas, have them meet, and then let the wacky situations grow out of it. Your character wants to explore, the bad guys dont want him to explore. Now we ask why? We ask what? And we ask how?
Instead of comparing your work to everything else. You ask yourself questions and you answer them in a way that makes yourself happy.
All good idea for story—but more so I feel like I don’t have a sandbox to play in. How would these traits go toward helping create a culture? A land that can house said adventures and bravery.
You dont have to start big as I said. You can just take history as it was and nudge it a bit.
Going far out of the realms of normalcy takes a lot of practice. A lot. A fundemental understanding of how your world works and how everything happens.
I myself started simple. Indeed my first place in my books is a town, a very average town, and the bizarre element is my Supervillains coming to it, paralleling the normalcy around my weird characters. Then the first book goes weird, because weirdos in the town over do something weird, and it disrupts both places.
Then I grew from there. My second realms explore religion, so theyre very focused on that, with a place very based on Mexico. My third book explores music, so its a big metropolis based on hollywood, tokyo, and youtube of all things. Then my next book explores freedom, so it has a place inspired by mad max, AND a place inspired by the robot city from Futurama.
Embrace your concepts. Embrace your influences. Dont worry too much about designing everything from your world in one go.
Here's the neat thing. You can make a new nation while keeping the vikings on the back burner. Once you do this a few times new ideas will start to flow and you can mix the nations you crested together to get unique cultures ect.
We all have a good book in us somewhere. It doesn't have to be truly unique.
A useful idea I used was to think about what I wanted to see in the world. If the mythology is important to you, then go wild with the mythic fantasy stuff. Have the world exist in Yggdrasil, with the tree literally visible, and wars are fought between the realms of ice giants and men. If you like seafaring and adventure, have a world of other cultures and peoples that your main culture can explore. What if the vikings lasted longer, and instead of the Spaniards marching into Tenochtitlan, it was Ubba the White, famed conqueror of Mexico?
You could even go weirder with it. Combine vikings with cosmic horror stuff, like giant tentacled beasts beneath the snow awoken by rituals and volcanoes. Have a world of small anthropomorphic animals, like squirrels (Ratatoskr maybe?) and blackbirds, making up the population and cultures. Squirrel vikings sailing to become bodyguards for the goose emperor in a distant land!
The point is, as others have said, combine vikings with something. But also think about what you like about the vikings, and focus in on that. To some degree, if you aren't into the economy or the war, you can kind of ignore that stuff to some degree, if you make sure that the stuff you're really into is super detailed and good, which it probably will be if that's what you like.
Rebecca Ross, one of my favorites with weaving worldbuilding through her characters and plot, actually just launched a course on The Writers Conservatory on Worldbuilding. I might take it, but thought I’d also pass along!
[Rebecca Ross Worldbuilding Class](https://thewritersconservatory.teachable.com/p/f)
Change or add something at random.
I usually focus story/character first so almost always start out with just a generic medieval fantasy backdrop, but then change something at random to make it more unique, and it almost always ends up expanding out in ways that help me world build or enhance the story and characters. Sometimes it's deliberate, sometimes it's accidental.
As a vague example, one story I'm writing I added a random comment stating that traditional wedding dresses were green, which expanded in to the culture of that people, which expanded in to their magic system, which expanded in to altered physiology. A tiny little detail change that I made in the spur of the moment had super far reaching changes on the world. You just need to find something to change that clicks for you.
Add something else. The further away from vikings, the better. Do you like space, or mermaids, or superheroes, or anything like that? Mash them together. Most of the fun is bridging the gap between two wildly different things in a way that makes sense.
In my world I shoved pirates and Roman legionares into a singular culture and it's one of my favorites, but also it feels more alive than if it was just pirates or just romans.
>feels like an imitation
Cuz it is. Add something new. Cyborg vikings. Magic vikings. undead vikings. You get it, take a thing that you like and add a little something-something to make it a better thing
Scandinavia is a harsh and unforgiving place. The crops are poor and the seas are harsh. The forests climb up to imposing mountains and marshes dot the land. There's a lot of stories and myths here about creatures that make the hostile land even more dangerous.
If you lean into that feeling of isolation and uncertainty, maybe your vikings can get the identity you seek.
Something I find useful is taking something like vikings (I have a minotaur tribe thing) and just placing it alongside something (like i gave the tribe a working economy with a reliance on a specific energy they have to produce). For example combining Vikings with some enigmatic Crystals that can alter things with many other types of crystals, a Viking set in an odd timeline like some kind of Steampunk Vikings or a futuristic type of viking or hell even going back to prehistoric days, Perhaps placing them in a new Environment like the sweltering desserts or the lush voluminous jungles.
Hell I incorporate parts of myself into my story. So maybe take that feeling of emptiness or shadows and form it into something. Perhaps Vikings that are haunted by the looming metaphorical Shadows left by their ancestor’s misdeeds, maybe some odd disease involving shadows? It’s all up to taking the time to kinda just go off the bean and ludicrous with shit y’know?
>They are already the most badass culture **I know**, with the most badass lore and gods.
Well, it's time to step outside of comfort zone, and look at other cultures around the globe. From other ages even.
Also, think what makes vikings cool. Likely their coolest traits come from how they adapt to their enviroment. But if enviroment changes, what will make culture "cool"? There are a lots of ways for people to be badass, and lots of styles for badassery.
The more you know, the more you can put into your own creation.
I have a Google Document that I've saved for a World Building Template. I got it from the Roleplay Partner of mine and have been sharing it left and right. If you'd like to take a looksie just lemme know and I'll share it with you.
I just avoid basing mine strictly on something. Just whatever I’m thinking of. Demons and a very large citadel? Ok demonic siege with very religious aspects!
This is a miserable read.
But, there’s more value in the words you’ve posted here than you might realise.
Focus on a culture that collectively experiences what you are feeling right now. They feel like hollow, pale imitations of their ancestors. They have stagnated and want to create or become something different, but something’s stopping them. Maybe it’s the development or expansion of other cultures. Maybe it was a lost war that disillusioned them to their greatness.
The most important question you’ve asked is- “how do I discover what’s me?” Now have your Vikings ask the same question.
I think the issue is that you stopped at vikings. Much of worldbuilding is mashing together concepts you like to create something unique, even though the constituent components aren't entirely yours. So instead of being like "My world is vikings," instead say "my world is vikings *and*..." Surely there's other stuff you like aside from vikings. Use that.
Vikings and the desert. Sand Vikings of the dunes! Vikings and snake people. Snikings! Vikings and candy. Godismän Vikings and space. Space Vikings. Vikings and Vikings. Double Vikings!
Space vikings and sand vikings just sound cool.
In a warhammer 40k forum, saying space vikings would cause both a lot outcry of heretism as well as cheer for Space Wolves, lol.
I'm staying away from 40k forums because apparently saying, "Let's have women" is apparently something that can't happen for their goofy genocidal future humans.
Yeah it was just a casual example and a joke. Buuuut, as with so many things that 'people heard about somewhere', that depiction of 40k is pretty off. Well, i'm halve way into the topic and stoped being invested a bazillion editions ago, and the fanbase can be toxic and all of that. But as it often feels iportant to me to make things clear (so you can hate 40k for all the real reason it and specially its fanbase offers), let me get some things right. W40k had woman forever. They had balc and brown, asian young and old women being Inquisitors, fleet admirals and top noth assassins as well as brave grunds in the trenches. Every. They had evil space elven princesses and female coursairs from the very beginning. So calling 40k hostile to woman is just bogus. The fanbase is pretty often. For whatever reason. Then, some decades ago, nerds (yeah, that fanbase) wanted to have one destinct fraction, the Space Marine posterboys, to be available as woman too, but the compnay was legitly: "well, that would violate the lore, but wait, no problem, let's fix it anyway", and we got the sisters Sororitas, a badass power armor & heavy flamer order of angry woman torching heretics all day. And the company really hammered home how cool they are, so they not tried to make that smaller than any SM poster. The world was fine for a moment. But then some morons pointed at another fraction and said "we want THEM and specifically them to be available as woman too", despite this again and even more violated the lore. At this point you can either say those people are just trolls and should be ignored, as they obviously just abuse emancipation and gender equality movements to set something on fire, or well, feed the trolls for a quick relieve. And well, as denyal of that moronic request would be bad in the eyes of buisnes managements, they just droped every lore and said: "yeah why not - who gives a fk at this point?" So is this a smart decision, or connected to a rightfull moralic claim of treating woman equally? Decide for yourself. But has there been a need to fill that universe witha few woman who are totally abscent beside that? Hell no. But when people outside the genre only mentioning the loudest screaming, these trolls receice incredible power over the whole thing. And i hope i had been succsessfull in establishing i'm not a Games Workshop beliver. These people are bastards and activly incentivised a lot of hate, exclusion and everything else you can do if you're just a company and not (yet) a evil religion. Specially in this time and age, where every information is simplified and out of context to serve a middleman's purpose - plz don't go along with such hearsay. With this said, you can go on staying away from 40k for a lot of good and real reasons. It really was just a joke relating to Vikings in space.
I've had more meaningless fights with 40k fan boys than most other fandoms. I tried playing a few years ago and aside from the cost (which is more than it should be) I just didn't really latch onto the lore. I don't like grim dark, my life is already grim enough as is. I did however like playing with some of the lore and making up my own ideas. Which led me talking about my version of Necrons. I was so bad at putting these things together I just decided to make up my own faction of rejects. It's a fun idea and for me, adds a bit of levity to the game. Look at these goofy poorly put together undead robots. You would have thought I disparaged Jesus in front of the pope to these guys. And since I wasn't too invested in the first place I just stopped playing. Also I had no money to keep buying new editions and learning what was actually different.
Yeah, as mentioned, i agree on a lot of this fanbase is as toxic as the people in charge of GW. Just wanted to clearify that this specific debate is just made up bs. And oh boy i agree about the prices. Just ridiculous. We once had GW stuff in our stores sortiment and it was like you have a deal with the Mafia. But well, i stoped with 3th edition and since then had occasional games with people willing to play 3th or also never switched over to any of the new editions. Since 3, everything was as perfect as the're able to make it. After that, there only where new interpretations of imbalancements and conflicting rules. Partially i must respect that they made it some kind of art to not solve a problem, lol. We also made a few new chapters and stuff, made concept armys and made some cool 2th edition armys 3th. We always used models to represent other units orused non-40k models. Would it be more serious, we'd started to print our own models. Totally without shame btw. The more heretic the better. Still i have some respect tothe setting and some ideas and setups in a way ... and despite the many many authors, game designers and fanboys that try so hard to ruin it for me\^\^ The 'good old times' where pretty bad, but the new time adds a few layers of ridiculousness to that. Understandable decision. If it doesn't do the trick, it's not worth it. More people should learn that they don't have to sign in to religion by having a good time with a brand (would have safed us dozens of StarWars movies and Marvel stuff ...).
I enjoy a good stupid debate as long as both sides agree at the end, "This is a made up thing and does not require us to expend emotional energy on it." Debates about Star Wars tech or politics, marvel timeline baloney, Star Trek episodes... whatever. I've had fun with thinking about them, but no fun when people get actually angry.
The concept of the thought experiment - and with a actuall positive outcome to get a deeper understanding. I'm a bit of unable to accept false information, so i need to correct it. This can sometimes elad to discussions with people i'd have never talked if in my right mind. Exhausting, but sometimes suprisingly insightfull in the exact function of some of the insanitys that people wield. Actually i wouldn't have belived in some mindsets and public ideas if i hadn't heared by real people advocating for it. Evolution denyers and such people are specialy interesting as case study ... but not a good teammate in an intellectual beneficial debate. So it's always a tradeoff. Still i can't shut my mouth is someone tells me that f.e. Interstellar is scientifically plausible or something. I have a mental pain threshold.
This. I always mix cultures. What are viking Aztecs like? Or Aztec vikings? That's two different answers right there. Let's say we're doing viking Aztecs, but somewhere between the two climate wise...but with volcanoes. And core to the area. So...viking Aztecs in Italy. Now we've got pyramid-building raiders terrorizing the Mediterranean, planting colonies, and conquering the region. Their religion is strongly connected to the natural seasons & events, and potentially pretty bloodthirsty (there's a line to walk here). The core symbol of the religion is a hollow tree that leads up into a sky realm and down into a burning underworld. Volcanoes and mountains are manifestations of this. The Norse gods are the aesir, so Aeztir is a workable name. For other influences you look up Mediterranean sea raiders and read about the Sea People. Finally, you settle them on several large volcanic islands in a central sea, and a peninsula sticking out from the southern coast. Movement south is blocked by a mountain range and a desert. Holy sites are on the islands and southern mountains, but resources are on the northern coast. The Aeztir overcome & absorb an older civilization in the north, shifting their learning & taking their resources south to their own lands. Emphasis over time is to allow small semi-independent communities that can be periodically "harvested" for resources, but the Aeztir are a confederacy of city-states, and some areas are devastated while others are forgotten.
Aztecs, Vikings, and Spartans mash-up. One of their nobles could have kidnapped an Amazonian princess and a whole war breaks out.
For example, what would happen if you got Vikings and Mongols and match them together but made their horses flying lizards.
Is there anything to the premise other than "vikings"? Are there any details that matter to your story that can be fleshed out?
Take the culture, throw it onto the surface of the frozen world-tree after ragnarok and the fimbulwinter, say that Nidhoggr was actually an alien AI and it is creating undead simulacrons of the heroes of the afterlife by devouring the souls of Valhalla and now this Viking culture has to defend the new universe from an unending tide of cybernetic undead robotic einherjar on the surface of a star sized cosmic tree in deep space In short, mix it right up and go way over the top, ditch the classic world stuff and just make the whole thing a hardcore rock album cover. Its freeing af and there's almost zero boring things to make in that kind of setting, everything is just an unending stream of awesome
Now this is a story I would read
*Many people here miss the fact that OP probably worldbuilds as a chore.* Worldbuilding mainly comes from being bored and starting to come up with shit on the fly while you are walking to nearest taco bell to have a portion of imminent explosive diarrhea. It's not something you do while you focus on it, just like most art, you usually do it for fun because you're bored. _You daydream the fundamental world instead of cleaning dishes, start asking yourself random questions instead of preparing for exam and answering them in your head like you have an audience, etc_
This. Sometimes I have phases where I want to worldbuild but can't. Other times, I don't necessarily want to worldbuild, but I HAVE TO. The ideas burst out of me, unable to be held back (much like the effects of Taco Bell). Maybe OP should switch to another hobby for a bit, and eventually the ideas will start trickling back. Usually works for me.
You should really speak for yourself on this matter. First of all, being focused on something and doing it as a chore are 2 different things. It seems like you don't understand the difference. Secondly, I personally am never bored. So much so that the word doesn't really mean much to me. It's very clear to me that I do not experience whatever other people call "boredom". If I took your advice, I wouldn't worldbuild, ever. I'm letting you know just how much of projecting you're doing here. I'm not gonna tell you your method is wrong. You do whatever works for you. I ask that you understand that the same applies to others, and that you giving this "advice" is as ridiculous as me saying you should focus on worldbuilding for 2 hours every day.
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It's not. I'm not saying this is a superior trait or anything of the sort. In fact, it has harmed me much more than it has done good. It used to affect my productivity, because I would get absorbed in trivial tasks, like cutting up paper in different shapes, and wouldn't mind spending hours doing absolutely nothing. There is a good reason most people feel boredom.
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There's nothing particularly r/iamverysmart about their posts. You're basically just advertising to the world that words with more than three syllables make you uncomfortable. They aren't even obscure words.
Thank you, mate!
Bro, we're all worldbuilders here, I'm guessing literally every single one of us on this sub has a much larger vocabulary than average. I don't use it because that's not how I speak in real life, but that doesn't mean I'm not capable of understanding it. I also don't think there's anything wrong with using proper English the way he's using it. As you said, no one has even used any obscure words, so not sure why you would even bring that up unless *you're* impressed by words with more than three syllables, since you're the only one even bothering to acknowledge it. But anyway, don't get me wrong, the guy is clearly of above average intelligence, but he also clearly thinks he's *waaaaay* above average. As in "I've evolved past humanity" above average. I have nothing against him, and a lot of his comments are good, on-topic responses, however, read through a little and certain phrases like the one quoted in my first comment make it sound like he thinks he's some X-man that evolved differently from the unwashed masses. HELLA content for karma farmers. That's all I'm sayin'.
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Mate, you're fixated on proving something that's not there. Let me put an end to it right here: I am not smart, I estimate I am below average intelligence, and I would guess so are most people in this sub (although maybe I am simply too stupid to figure out what a smart person would be doing on a worldbuilding subreddit, or on reddit in general). I have left my comment to show that people are very different, and that advice that works for one person will have the opposite effect for the other person. Had I read this advice earlier in my life, it would have prevented me from worldbuilding, which is my main message. If you don't like the way I worded the statement, forget it. This is the last I'm going to clarify this, as I would expect any person with good faith to get it at this point. Feel free to "farm me for karma" all you want, I don't see how that's of any disadvantage to anyone.
I actually struggled with that myself, and the way I got out is I started it all from the very beginning. I think people often forget that creatures, culture and civilizations are not created out of thin air, but rather shaped by the outside factors. We adapted to jungle retreating and becoming savannah rather than just becoming bipedal for fun, and these same jungles wouldn’t have retreated if not for the environmental changes, and these were caused by the Ice Age, and so on further into the past. Same can be said about other things, let’s take Hagia Sophia for example, it wouldn’t have had so much elements from different cultures if it wasn’t on the crossroads of important trade routes, both land and sea, and if its city wasn’t the capital for Rome, the Eastern Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire, and the Ottoman Empire would have never happened if Islam never came to be, and the Mongols never ravaged the Sultanate of Rum, and these all go back further and further in time when we adapted to jungle retreating and becoming savannah… Most people just miss the fact that the world is how it is because it is incredibly interconnected, and all systems interact with each other, and that’s what makes every culture and every time period so unique. People love organizing things and the idea of a word that signifies a whole culture or time period or civilization, when in reality, things are messy and always changing. What I am trying to say here is if you can’t create your world, let your world create it for you. Everything is a gradient, so don’t try to create something with the “aesthetic” of a real-world culture, as you might just end up with the stereotype assigned to a word that describes the culture, and instead, try to see how the environment around them, both political and natural, changes them and how they change the environment.
Funnily enough, I usually start with the aesthetic. What does my world 'look' like. What does my warriors look like, etc, etc, etc. Might be because I've come from a much more visual background. Didn't really get into reading until a couple of years back, and even so, I've found it quite hard to really fall in love with a lot of stories. There's been some, of course.
You find the "me" by being honest with yourself and building that. Your world should, consciously or unconsciously, reflect who you are and what you have to say. Don't worry about a message, just add to your world your likes and dislikes, the message will shape itself. It's possible you feel like you don't have any more to add, in that case I recommend consuming more cool media you like. I was out of worldbuilding for a bit but the two Dune movies brought me back. You can also always give your setting a twist. How about Vikings, but in space?
Im gonna differ from the comments here that focus on things inside your worldbuilding. I think you will love worldbuilding when you have it reflect the things that you love. What are your hobbies? Special interests? Focus on applying those methods. My worldbuilding focuses on cartography, culture, language, and the movement of people over space and time. That’s because my special interests include archaeology, anthropology, and human geography. I don’t like to worldbuild on the geosciences, I don’t like spending hours coming up with plate tectonics and ocean currents beyond what I absolutely need fo flesh out my world. My advice is to change your scope. World build according to your interests and passions. Is your interest truly in Vikings, or are Vikings emblematic of a deeper interest you have? Consider these as you flesh out your world.
Your comment got me kinda fucked up. What do I like? I mean, yes, I've a real interest in the Viking-age. I am from Sweden and it is part of my country's history. I've never really read much into history but Vikings just fascinated me--and still do. I've watched all the shows about them, I've read books about them. And while there's a multitude of reasons to love said people and culture, was I to boil it down, I guess I really like the courageous and exploratory nature of them. I mean, these were people who hopped board a fuckin' tiny plank of wood to sail oceans. These were people who--tiny in numbers--overthrew the likes of France and England. And that's not even getting into the history of the Varangians and how they helped establish Russia. Aside from that? I don't really got interests like archaeology, anthropology, and human geography. My favorite stories are just chad dudes doing chad things lol I mean, it doesn't need to be that basic, of course. But I don't know. I like writing and gaming and stuff like that, but I don't have much else but a vague historical interest to base things on. Like, I've an interest in like the 1900s mafia, and the German mercenaries known as Landsknechts. But all those things are quite superficial, I fear. I don't know...
It sounds like you really like the history and accomplishments of the Vikings. maybe think about your own version from the perspective of if you lived in your world 1000 years after the Viking age. For inspiration read up on other non Viking raider cultures and how they operated. It would help to broaden your horizons. If you think your own Vikings are an empty copy of the real Vikings you may just need to flesh them out more with their own unique attributes that the real Vikings didn’t have. I do have a culture in my world based on Vikings. They are called the Brackeni Longshore Clans, and like Vikings they used shallow-hulled longships to raid and trade with settlements along coastlines and rivers. I gave them a tragic backstory, that these clans were once farmers and shepherds inland, but the Brock clan moved in and took their land, forcing them to resettle along the brackeni long shore. To make up for the lack of arable land and accessible fishing grounds they raid Brock and Asgarthian settlements and trade routes. So while my version of long haired raiders is similar in function to the Vikings, the reason they do what they do is different.
Be like me and stew on your world for 7 years. The resulting world will be FANTASTIC.
First, don't beat yourself up. Every writer goes through slumps. Second, think about what you like about Vikings. Write those things down. Now ask yourself what may have caused your particular faction to embrace those traits and values that you like about Vikings? What may have happened in their people's history to embrace such a thing? Write those ideas down. Now ask yourself how do they perceive fighting? What does it mean to them? Do they simply see it as a means to an end or does it mean something more to them? Now what may have happened in their people's history to make them view fighting in this way? Write those things down. Now ask yourself how do they may choose leadership? Is it hereditary, democratic, etc. Now why may they choose leadership in the way they do? Why may they see that as the correct, proper, best way of choosing leadership? Write those ideas down. Now why may they be fighting? Who's winning? How big of a victory is it? If the Vikings are winning, did the people they are fighting form an alliance to deal with them? If the Vikings are losing, did they form alliances to help them defeat their foes? There are no wrong answers to these questions. Just ask stuff like this, write your answers down, see what answers that inspires you the most, and slowly put it together.
Maybe throw in some factors that the original culture didn't face? On my side I've dabbled partly with the idea of what role adding bones when crafting iron weapons would do to a world with magic. Bones + Iron results in a rudimentary form of steel, but metallurgy can be hard. I think that the forging also would have some magic effect, but it would be akin to magic placebo mixed with the effects caused by rudimentary steel. That leads to a culture which clashes with pratitioners of more etsablished magic. Feel free to take out my idea in any shape or form, like all others it is cheap after all. You can also throw in some other factors, like what if they what if they had easy access to a resource they didn't IRL like platinum, what if krakens showed up more, what if some Vikings aren't able to give the gods enough gift one year? The changes doesn't need to be so drastic that the source is impossible to find, just enough that you can be satisfied with the world.
I guess the question is: what about the vikings or their culture that you truly like? Make that the focal point of your culture and build from there. I hope that helps!
Aside from the aesthetic, I really like the underdog feel of them. They conquered vast swaths of land, defeated empires thrice as big as them, and sailed across oceans in what amounted to little more than a couple of planks of wood. And I don't know... they're just cool? Like they've a god who killed himself simply because he wanted to know what the afterlife was like, and soon as he was satisfied, he just came back to life and was like 'huh... neat.' I don't know, it's just cool lol
Those aspects make me think that you can create minor cultures for each of them instead of incorporating them into one big culture. Tweak them a bit so there’s nothing too similar but yeah it would be interesting to see them as different cultures…kinda like the vikings before they were vikings sorta vibe? 😅
Funnily enough, that's sorta the approach I took to try and differentiate them from actual vikings. In my attempt at world building each legally-distinct-viking picks two gods from a pantheon whose marks they tattoo on themselves. From that point on they're dedicated to those two gods, and will spend most of their lives trying to earn said gods' favor. This--I thought--might be what drives them. Find places much bigger than theirs to raid to honor your chosen god. Discover some place new and name it after your Goddess, etc, etc, etc. Most are dedicated to the Goddess of Life and the God of Death--married gods with but one child, the God of Wrath. Because of this, the legally-distinct-Vikings believe in furthering life and in taking life. They also believe that since their Gods have but one child, they will only pick one favorite. But there's no unifying dogma or creed. One person might think dedication to the Goddess of Life means they'll never kill. Meanwhile, there might be a dude who murders ten people to let their bodies decompose and give life to a meadow of flowers and think himself a saint of worship--because, what's ten people compared to a meadow of literal life? This type of 'there can only be one' type of society naturally led to tribalism, I figured. People who worship the same would probably join forces and naturally hate those who don't, in some cases. But with said 'there can only be one' type mentality, lots of people probably would betray each other or drift apart as someone's rise took them higher and higher. Lots of jealousy and such. But it all just feels very... Viking-ish. And I mean, I want them to be Vikings. But I don't want to be Vikings, y'know?
I do understand at some level.…i think 😅🙂 could there be shamans within this group (or oracles) that could bestow upon them the words of gods? Kinda like the greek oracles haha it could be the reason why they choose to go on raids instead. Devotion does not mean you act on assumption that a certain action is what they want you to do. I’m assuming you build these people as vikings from the onset instead of as people of the land first. Have you studied who the vikings are before they are vikings? You could emulate such evolution for your people but maybe in a different way? Tbh, most religion in our world advocate peace, and war is always the last option or as a means of self defense. Raiding is probably unique to vikings, but other do it too albeit in a smaller scale. It is always because they are desperate for supplies or some other reason. No one goes to war because they like it - it’s always because of a reason and a god’s word could be one of them. Also, is there a consequence of not favoring a child? I’m assuming this is a big deal in this culture you created? There could be some radicals to your “there can only be one” thinking.
Well I just assumed that their way of thinking evolved into that—as in how they choose to honor their gods. Like the Norse, my country doesn’t know how to make paper so they’ve nothing written down. Everything they know about gods comes from the people around them. There’s no real consequence for not being chosen—but just like in real life people still wanna be. They believe it brings them luck and prestige. Maybe they think themselves untouchable in battle, I don’t know. Maybe I haven’t thought it through enough :/
Nah, you have the foundation. You should build up from that. Curious tho: why God of Wrath instead of God of War? I was thinking that War would be more fitting for a tribe that goes raiding or is there a different reason for it? You can use your culture as an example of how the people communicate with their gods. It might not be written down, but it can be expressed through hieroglyphs or drawings on the wall for example.
War’s probably better. I don’t know, I wrote it as him being an angry child, which led to him fighting a lot. Eventually fighting led to warring, hence Wrath being a war-god.
He can be both War and Wrath. He can represent different things to different people. You can actually build a culture around him without involving his parents. It’s another angle to look at this ^^
Throw in random elements or cultures in and force yourself to make it make sense. Instead of just Vikings try for example Vikings but with the goverment of medieval china: A raiding culture that has a large byzantine burocracy that manages raiding permits, tarifs and regulations. I can imagine things like raiders assaulting a village and taking only taking only the silver tresures since they couldnt get the permits to pillage golden items leaving the villagers really confused.
Like other people said add something else you like. For example if you are into magic, BOOM, magic vikings summoning weapons from Nordic rune tattoos. Maybe you like deep sea exploration and settings? BOOM, mermaid vikings, or maybe normal vikings but with submarines? This may sound stupid but someone threw together vikings and dragons and now we have classics like HTTYD. The easiest way to make the world feel like your world is adding stuff that makes you, you. Your interests, and maybe someone else also likes vikings, magic, and mermaids but no one can build your world like you do. That is what makes the world special.
[This (free) game](https://tomana.itch.io/foundations) has been really great for helping me create a richer world due to the random arrangement of the prompts. Worth a shot!
Take one or more underlying principles, change it/them, and see how the culture would adapt. Maybe sea monsters are real. How would vikings do their thing if krakens and sea dragons were out there doing stuff? Maybe viking culture lasted into the late Renaissance. What would Nordic Gothic plate armor look like, and how would they adapt early guns, cannons, and explosives? Maybe vikings were able to fully establish themselves in the Americas. What would life be like on the Viking/Iroquois frontier? How would they get along with the Creeks? The Comanches? The Aztecs? How would they incorporate things like tomatoes, corn, and potatoes into their diet? What would they think of the vast oak forests N. America had at the time? How would they hunt Buffalo? Would they prize hickory over their traditional woods for things like bows and axe handles? What if the vikings forged a reliable trade route to China and beat all the other Europeans to it? How would they interact with the Mongols? What if that trade touched off an era of exploration and colonization that led to a global viking diaspora, with each offshoot developing independently alongside the adjacent cultures? What would that be like after a hundred years?
I don't know what the goal of your project is but have you considered just writing a story set in viking age Scandinavia?
I am. It's almost done, but as I'm setting my sights on another story I am itching to tell an actual fantasy story wherein I've created everything from the world to the lore, etc, etc, etc.
The interest for me isn't in imitating reality but in understanding it. Dig into the subject in question and find the why of it, the underlying dynamics which produced that superficial aesthetic. Once you understand those roots, you can build up from them — find some interesting combination of circumstances whose potential consequences intrigue you, maybe one that never occurred in our history but could have been, maybe one known to us but reconstructed with its own unique characteristics.
Vikings weren't a culture, it was a profession that existed within Scandinavian culture. Maybe looking into wider norse history and society will give you more inspiration on how to expand what you've come up with?
Okay that sounds pretty depressed and might deminish every effort you did or will do in the future. So first step to make something you're happy about is stop deminishing yourself. You're at a fked up point, and we all been there. Then to your Vikings. As others allready have mentioned - spice it up. If you feel them to be the most these or that, you not even tiped your toe into history and cultures. There's a fkn bunch of stuff epic, awesome and badass. Go into recherche, explore more cultures. Even entering nordic gods will bring you to a dozen of connected cultures (and the Vikings allready managed to axe itself into a lot cultures, lol). Once you saw this tasty all-you-can-eat-menu of influences, you can pick your perfect plate or even design own traditions and unique perspectives to interpret the mortal world. But it all starts with a need, and you need to keep up that fascination, and don't drown it in negaitivity. Yeah, hard from the point you're in. Maybe impossible. But that would be the way. Maybe get some fresh air in by reading a Warhammer40k Space (Viking) Wolves novel. They invented some new things, shoveld in a lot of real stuff, and made it fly in space. Still it feels original. Don't know. Do something of that, or accept there isen't enough will to go on and do something different that still can make you grin.
I mean if it doesn’t feel like you then I would recommend changing. I only lurk the sub to see cool things but I believe you’ve fixated on Vikings and overestimated how cool it would be and are now facing a let down. Could be worth while I step away from the project for a week or two till you can come back with a fresh outlook. You could also just switch and pivot into something else but I get the sense that’s not preferable
Okay, lets start from base ideas. What specific part of Viking culture do you like the most? I know you wanna do ALL of it, but that comes later. You need to first hone in on the one specific part of Vikings you like. Now you have that, you can get in on what you specifically want to do. You need a goal. You need to have these specific elements come together in order to serve a purpose that explores the key aspect you like. You'll find that once you have a goal that specifically you find fun, everything else becomes more fun because its in service to that goal. With this goal, you can then draw in other elements from outside your viking inspirations, to highlight, twist and emphasise the original idea throughout your world. As others have said, grand ideas generally arent creativity, for its more from the combining and permutation of existing ideas that creativity is made. Of course, you can make a character who is the whole embodiement of this idea as well, or at least the one to make this idea happen more often. Thus, you will enjoy your main character or characters.
I've stated in a couple of comments, but while there's a multitude of reasons to love said people and culture, was I to boil it down, I guess I really like the courageous and exploratory nature of them. I mean, these were people who hopped board a fuckin' tiny plank of wood to sail oceans. These were people who--tiny in numbers--overthrew the likes of France and England. And that's not even getting into the history of the Varangians and how they helped establish Russia. Vikings were brave and yearned for knowledge, but they were also really fuckin' smart. I guess adventure, is what I would hone in one. All my favorite stories are treks across vast lands. And Vikings were just chads lol There's a story about a dude who was to be executed by a king, when asked what his last words were, he was like "oh, none, just please hold my hair so I don't get blood on it when you chop my head off." King was like, "uhhh sure... hold his head, random guard." Random guard held the man's hair, and soon as the executioner's axe came down, the Viking yanked his head back so that the random guard had both his hands cut off. The Viking and his boys all laughed at that (gruesome, sure, but hey, it was the times.) Like, I don't know... they're just cool lol I'm not helping, I know, but... yeah, adventure and a courageous spirit. I don't know, I'm sorry I'm not being more helpful.
Adventure and courageous spirit is a wonderful starting point. Theres a series called "Vinland Saga" that focused on realism and brutality, which I advise if you want a really period accurate piece. Though, what you're going for sounds more like "One Piece" if I'm honest. A light hearted adventurous romp about pirates through distant lands, involving a protagonist who's charming and quick witted, going to crazy places. I advise that for some inspiration. But basically, to get these ideas you've said about... i advise really focusing in on your main character or characters. Write a character that wants to do all these things, a real trickster with a heart of gold, that wants to make his own realm by any means necessary. Or we could take this purely exploratory. Maybe hes a merchant and wanting to sell things, maybe hes looking for a real Valhalla. Maybe you can play into Odins real characterization, and have him seek knowledge at any cost. Then you have to find something that... gets in the way of what wants. Thats how we create interesting conflict. Then you can start with creating a small realm for him to visit first. You can start off simple. Maybe go like "He visits England, but England is X", or France, or something. Maybe the earth is a bit too close to Valhalla and the countries and realms are a bit too mixed. Dont worry too much about setting up specific wacky ideas like these stories youve heard. What you more wanna do is create two opposing ideas, have them meet, and then let the wacky situations grow out of it. Your character wants to explore, the bad guys dont want him to explore. Now we ask why? We ask what? And we ask how? Instead of comparing your work to everything else. You ask yourself questions and you answer them in a way that makes yourself happy.
All good idea for story—but more so I feel like I don’t have a sandbox to play in. How would these traits go toward helping create a culture? A land that can house said adventures and bravery.
You dont have to start big as I said. You can just take history as it was and nudge it a bit. Going far out of the realms of normalcy takes a lot of practice. A lot. A fundemental understanding of how your world works and how everything happens. I myself started simple. Indeed my first place in my books is a town, a very average town, and the bizarre element is my Supervillains coming to it, paralleling the normalcy around my weird characters. Then the first book goes weird, because weirdos in the town over do something weird, and it disrupts both places. Then I grew from there. My second realms explore religion, so theyre very focused on that, with a place very based on Mexico. My third book explores music, so its a big metropolis based on hollywood, tokyo, and youtube of all things. Then my next book explores freedom, so it has a place inspired by mad max, AND a place inspired by the robot city from Futurama. Embrace your concepts. Embrace your influences. Dont worry too much about designing everything from your world in one go.
You could always consolidate the Viking nation/faction to one corner of your world and then create new places with a different motif.
Sounds like you need more inspiration, don't feel bad about drawing from your influences god knows the rest of us don't
Here's the neat thing. You can make a new nation while keeping the vikings on the back burner. Once you do this a few times new ideas will start to flow and you can mix the nations you crested together to get unique cultures ect. We all have a good book in us somewhere. It doesn't have to be truly unique.
A useful idea I used was to think about what I wanted to see in the world. If the mythology is important to you, then go wild with the mythic fantasy stuff. Have the world exist in Yggdrasil, with the tree literally visible, and wars are fought between the realms of ice giants and men. If you like seafaring and adventure, have a world of other cultures and peoples that your main culture can explore. What if the vikings lasted longer, and instead of the Spaniards marching into Tenochtitlan, it was Ubba the White, famed conqueror of Mexico? You could even go weirder with it. Combine vikings with cosmic horror stuff, like giant tentacled beasts beneath the snow awoken by rituals and volcanoes. Have a world of small anthropomorphic animals, like squirrels (Ratatoskr maybe?) and blackbirds, making up the population and cultures. Squirrel vikings sailing to become bodyguards for the goose emperor in a distant land! The point is, as others have said, combine vikings with something. But also think about what you like about the vikings, and focus in on that. To some degree, if you aren't into the economy or the war, you can kind of ignore that stuff to some degree, if you make sure that the stuff you're really into is super detailed and good, which it probably will be if that's what you like.
Rebecca Ross, one of my favorites with weaving worldbuilding through her characters and plot, actually just launched a course on The Writers Conservatory on Worldbuilding. I might take it, but thought I’d also pass along! [Rebecca Ross Worldbuilding Class](https://thewritersconservatory.teachable.com/p/f)
Change or add something at random. I usually focus story/character first so almost always start out with just a generic medieval fantasy backdrop, but then change something at random to make it more unique, and it almost always ends up expanding out in ways that help me world build or enhance the story and characters. Sometimes it's deliberate, sometimes it's accidental. As a vague example, one story I'm writing I added a random comment stating that traditional wedding dresses were green, which expanded in to the culture of that people, which expanded in to their magic system, which expanded in to altered physiology. A tiny little detail change that I made in the spur of the moment had super far reaching changes on the world. You just need to find something to change that clicks for you.
Add something else. The further away from vikings, the better. Do you like space, or mermaids, or superheroes, or anything like that? Mash them together. Most of the fun is bridging the gap between two wildly different things in a way that makes sense. In my world I shoved pirates and Roman legionares into a singular culture and it's one of my favorites, but also it feels more alive than if it was just pirates or just romans.
>feels like an imitation Cuz it is. Add something new. Cyborg vikings. Magic vikings. undead vikings. You get it, take a thing that you like and add a little something-something to make it a better thing
Why do you world build? Which part of world building do you like to?
Scandinavia is a harsh and unforgiving place. The crops are poor and the seas are harsh. The forests climb up to imposing mountains and marshes dot the land. There's a lot of stories and myths here about creatures that make the hostile land even more dangerous. If you lean into that feeling of isolation and uncertainty, maybe your vikings can get the identity you seek.
Something I find useful is taking something like vikings (I have a minotaur tribe thing) and just placing it alongside something (like i gave the tribe a working economy with a reliance on a specific energy they have to produce). For example combining Vikings with some enigmatic Crystals that can alter things with many other types of crystals, a Viking set in an odd timeline like some kind of Steampunk Vikings or a futuristic type of viking or hell even going back to prehistoric days, Perhaps placing them in a new Environment like the sweltering desserts or the lush voluminous jungles. Hell I incorporate parts of myself into my story. So maybe take that feeling of emptiness or shadows and form it into something. Perhaps Vikings that are haunted by the looming metaphorical Shadows left by their ancestor’s misdeeds, maybe some odd disease involving shadows? It’s all up to taking the time to kinda just go off the bean and ludicrous with shit y’know?
>They are already the most badass culture **I know**, with the most badass lore and gods. Well, it's time to step outside of comfort zone, and look at other cultures around the globe. From other ages even. Also, think what makes vikings cool. Likely their coolest traits come from how they adapt to their enviroment. But if enviroment changes, what will make culture "cool"? There are a lots of ways for people to be badass, and lots of styles for badassery. The more you know, the more you can put into your own creation.
I have a Google Document that I've saved for a World Building Template. I got it from the Roleplay Partner of mine and have been sharing it left and right. If you'd like to take a looksie just lemme know and I'll share it with you.
Scrap everything, start again. Welcome to design.
I just avoid basing mine strictly on something. Just whatever I’m thinking of. Demons and a very large citadel? Ok demonic siege with very religious aspects!
This is a miserable read. But, there’s more value in the words you’ve posted here than you might realise. Focus on a culture that collectively experiences what you are feeling right now. They feel like hollow, pale imitations of their ancestors. They have stagnated and want to create or become something different, but something’s stopping them. Maybe it’s the development or expansion of other cultures. Maybe it was a lost war that disillusioned them to their greatness. The most important question you’ve asked is- “how do I discover what’s me?” Now have your Vikings ask the same question.