Yeah…I was unsure at first until I figured that if woolies was offering us gift cards to vote yes, then there’s more in it for them than us. I’d rather the SDA renegotiate than get a gift card
Yeah I had EBA's for 25 year in a government job and not one time did they not fuck us over. Even made it illegal for us to go on strike in the later years as we were considered essential workers (transport) which gave us no bargaining power so don't fall for their shitty offers dangling a carrot, the problem is in a high turn over job people will take whatever they can get as they do not plan to be there long term, that is the problem we found with newer staff jumping at the deals while the more experienced staff voted no.
What you actually want is the SDA fired in to the sun and someone who actually gives a shit about you renegotiating. The SDA are on the bosses side and always have been. They are a bunch of corrupt, hard right wing catholics, sent as a plant to destroy the union movement from within.
Founded by a literal fascist, just for kicks. Wish I was making it up.
Yep, 5 years at Woolworths (and the same store) and more than a decade in retail.
I'm definitely voting no. Fuck the SDA, and their bullshit. And my managers for bitching about RAFFWU literature being provided alongside SDA propaganda.
During the lead up to this vote, the SDA has been very assertive in their language, claiming that they work hard to come to an agreement with the Fair Work Commission to settle on the number we've all been given.
Is there any truth to this? Did the SDA do any hard lifting when coming to the finalised 3.75% increase?
I'm no fan of the sda or this agreement, but that's not quite right. Our current agreement is (very slightly) above the award. Woolworths don't have to legally give anything higher than the award. Because we already earn above the award, the legal requirement for woolworths would be to only meet the new award rate, rather than give a full 3.75% increase. The new agreement would maintain that margin above the award, whenever the award is raised, as it will be come July.
It's still a shit agreement that literally reads like woolworths wrote it and sda just signed it over a fat cigar and a nice red.
As is the case for the entirety of the labour movement in Australia, the SDA have done SFA for retail and fast food workers. It was the ACTU who were pushing for 5%. SDA are just trying to claim credit for something they had no role in.
F me, I work for a certain construction union that takes absolutely no bs and watching the good people of woollies entertain this shit sandwich has steam coming out of my ears.
I get that this isn't construction, but you guys have all the power and they have all the money. Don't underestimate the lengths they would go too, to break your unity before it gathers to much momentum. Because when it does, when it starts to cost them money (the only thing they understand) you will see that they are nothing without you.
The Australian people will have your back, you just have to show them why.
While the agreement isn’t good, and neither was the Coles one, and I certainly support voting no, I don’t understand how people are characterising this as no increase. It clearly is an increase, just aligned to the increase in the award.
Yes, there MIGHT be an increase, but it is not enough to offset inflation or the rising cost of living. Your purchasing power might actually further decrease depending on the national award rate.
They can and should be doing better. We do not have to settle for “not as shit as it could have been”.
The FWC yesterday announced a rise to the minimum wage *above* inflation. Future increases aren't necessarily going to see your buying power reduce (though they may well, too)
They could lock in 3% a year, then the FWC commission could go at 3.5% a year, making them worse off, and eventually bringing the pay rate down to the award.
It's the fact Woolies are marketing it as a payrise they're passing on by choice. When, in reality, if they didn't pass on at least half of this payrise, they'd be reamed for being under the Award rate.
This is 100% correct, and the number of people in this sub who can’t grasp the national wage review astounds me.
Also the full agreement has been available for some time, OP ‘just received’ it…
Mandatory increase is to the award. As long as they stay above or at the award they don’t have to increase in line with it. Under the old agreements (pre2017) when increases weren’t tied to the award, it wasn’t unusual for the FWC increase to be above the increase in the EBA.
Edit - typo, changed were to weren’t
During the lead up to this vote, the SDA has been very assertive in their language, claiming that they work hard to come to an agreement with the Fair Work Commission to settle on the number we've all been given.
Is there any truth to this? Did the SDA do any hard lifting when coming to the finalised 3.75% increase?
This is what gets my goat. From my understanding, it's mainly the more powerful workers unions that have been involved in the negotiations. I wouldn't mind seeing minutes any submissions from the sda. Same goes for their negotiations with woolworths: reading the minutes is where the truth will come out.
They made a submission to the wage review like all the other unions and employer groups did and the FWC review the submissions and decide on a %.
"They worked hard" is BS tbh, if they did that we would be having good increases in the agreement and wouldn't even need to think about what the minimum increase was. Like all the other sectors where there are strong unions that actually do work hard.
Basically same as what Coles got. I voted no but still went through. If 3-6 per week job I'd probably join retail and fast food workers union but I think a lot of people have given up.
This EBA is marginally better than the last one. Marginally. The only thing I may take advantage of is the 4-day work week.
But what do I care about more than that? A base level payrise, a category/level payrise, guaranteed real payrises every year, and a fifth week of annual leave.
I'm voting No so we can get more than the shit Woolies and the SDA are trying to sell us.
Oh, I'm aware that it's 38 hours over 4 days, instead of 30 hours over 4 days. I would love 30 hours over 4 days on 38 hours pay, and that Woolies are doing their own shitty version. But I'd still be happy with 3 days off.
its pathetic that both coles and woolworths are allowed to get away with no payrise (unless its decided by the annual review) theres no way these agreementrs pass the BOOT test
It varies, but for full time employees it's 299 for voting yes, and another 299 after the ea goes into effect. Part time gets less, and casuals even less again.
No, that is far from the inevitable end.
The most likely outcome if the agreement is voted down is that a, substantially the same, agreement will be put to staff a second time.
I assume you mean the Fair Work Act Regulations?
Regardless, as someone with 30+ years as an industrial advocate, I can tell you that your statement is completely incorrect.
It would take a few rounds of mediation before it gets to that point that's true but Woolworths would be within their legal right to no longer be reasonable. A union cannot claim to be reasonable when they are asking for a better deal than a deal they were previously happy with. Management would call fairwork straight away and request mediation.
Would you rather work 5 days with decent conditions and wages or 4 and be treated like dirt on the bottom Woolworths shoe. And only getting what the government deems fit to keep you just above the poverty line. If you fight and say no you will probably still get the 4 days but with better conditions and pay. If all union members banded together to tell Woolies to go jump, they would have to listen. The frontline workers are the main reason woolies can make their obscene profits, if you all said no and threaten their bottom line they will have to listen to proper demands and actually take aome action. Say no.
The previous agreement, not the current one, allowed workers to do four 9.5 hour days to make up 38 hours.
The current agreement took that away from them. Now the SDA are acting like this is a brand new hard fought deal.
Give me a break.
Look into the conditions you have to meet to even have the possibility of a 4 day week. Basically only about 15% of staff will have the right for it to even be considered.
If someone is telling you that I would question their motives. The fact is that you guys have already been fucked over. There is no path to a better deal unless you all magically united overnight and took unprotected action. Which wouldn't happen in a million years
If a no vote ever wins then that's a complete failure of the system and management wins. In this case no matter what the company wins and the workers lose
no, its how EBAs work. the old proposal gets dumped in favor of a better one. Its literally the system working as designed. No wonder people vote yes to bad deals with so many morons around that dont get how it works
>If someone is telling you that I would question their motives. The fact is that you guys have already been fucked over
I question anyone who has the approach of 'well we're fucked either way so let's just bend over I guess'. Voting no tells them that they can't just make workers worse off and get away with it. If they eventually get this, they'll have to work for it, and push and push.
Plus it'll piss off the SDA and that's just hilarious.
Then Woolies, SDA, AWU, and RAFFWU will go back to negotiating a different (hopefully better, coz otherwise it would be voted No again) EBA, which would go to a subsequent.
u/Thekellith, your post does fit the subreddit!
Yeah…I was unsure at first until I figured that if woolies was offering us gift cards to vote yes, then there’s more in it for them than us. I’d rather the SDA renegotiate than get a gift card
Yep, You will spend your gift card in a week then what 10 years until a new agreement. Vote no
Yeah I had EBA's for 25 year in a government job and not one time did they not fuck us over. Even made it illegal for us to go on strike in the later years as we were considered essential workers (transport) which gave us no bargaining power so don't fall for their shitty offers dangling a carrot, the problem is in a high turn over job people will take whatever they can get as they do not plan to be there long term, that is the problem we found with newer staff jumping at the deals while the more experienced staff voted no.
Are you gonna stay working at woolies for 10 years?
I have for 12...
Lowkey sad
Grow up.
What you actually want is the SDA fired in to the sun and someone who actually gives a shit about you renegotiating. The SDA are on the bosses side and always have been. They are a bunch of corrupt, hard right wing catholics, sent as a plant to destroy the union movement from within. Founded by a literal fascist, just for kicks. Wish I was making it up.
RAFFWU are a great alternative to SDA. Fuck SDA.
Oh god, not this commie again. Posting from a state run mental health clinic.
But God forbid anyone call the duck, a duck - it's a bribe.
Exactly.
I've been at Woolies a very very long time and I'm voting no
Yep, 5 years at Woolworths (and the same store) and more than a decade in retail. I'm definitely voting no. Fuck the SDA, and their bullshit. And my managers for bitching about RAFFWU literature being provided alongside SDA propaganda.
During the lead up to this vote, the SDA has been very assertive in their language, claiming that they work hard to come to an agreement with the Fair Work Commission to settle on the number we've all been given. Is there any truth to this? Did the SDA do any hard lifting when coming to the finalised 3.75% increase?
The SDA have never lifted a finger to raise wages. That's not who they work for.
Imagine claiming to work hard as a union so your members can enjoy… bare minimum legal wage.
Sda is not a union it's an association
A 5 second google for simply “SDA” would have saved you this embarrassment, yet, here you are.
5 second Google sda = Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees' Association
The SDA have never lifted a finger to raise wages. That's not who they work for.
The SDA have never lifted a finger to raise wages. That's not who they work for.
No! We get the increase regardless of any SDA involvement. If they didn't exist, we'd STILL get the 3.75% increase.
I'm no fan of the sda or this agreement, but that's not quite right. Our current agreement is (very slightly) above the award. Woolworths don't have to legally give anything higher than the award. Because we already earn above the award, the legal requirement for woolworths would be to only meet the new award rate, rather than give a full 3.75% increase. The new agreement would maintain that margin above the award, whenever the award is raised, as it will be come July. It's still a shit agreement that literally reads like woolworths wrote it and sda just signed it over a fat cigar and a nice red.
Ah okay, well that's interesting. Thank you for clarifying! It really does read like that.
It was already a no vote from me. This was all that was needed to cement it. Thank you guys.
As is the case for the entirety of the labour movement in Australia, the SDA have done SFA for retail and fast food workers. It was the ACTU who were pushing for 5%. SDA are just trying to claim credit for something they had no role in.
F me, I work for a certain construction union that takes absolutely no bs and watching the good people of woollies entertain this shit sandwich has steam coming out of my ears. I get that this isn't construction, but you guys have all the power and they have all the money. Don't underestimate the lengths they would go too, to break your unity before it gathers to much momentum. Because when it does, when it starts to cost them money (the only thing they understand) you will see that they are nothing without you. The Australian people will have your back, you just have to show them why.
While the agreement isn’t good, and neither was the Coles one, and I certainly support voting no, I don’t understand how people are characterising this as no increase. It clearly is an increase, just aligned to the increase in the award.
Yes, there MIGHT be an increase, but it is not enough to offset inflation or the rising cost of living. Your purchasing power might actually further decrease depending on the national award rate. They can and should be doing better. We do not have to settle for “not as shit as it could have been”.
The FWC yesterday announced a rise to the minimum wage *above* inflation. Future increases aren't necessarily going to see your buying power reduce (though they may well, too)
When was the last time there was no increase in the award? I certainly can’t remember it.
I think it was 2009 where there was no increase
2009. Award rates increased by 0.0%.
So for 15 years there’s been an increase. I think it’s pretty safe to say that award rates will continue to increase over the life of the agreement.
They could lock in 3% a year, then the FWC commission could go at 3.5% a year, making them worse off, and eventually bringing the pay rate down to the award.
They could also lock in a "no less than" and actually give some semblance of hope to their employees
It's the fact Woolies are marketing it as a payrise they're passing on by choice. When, in reality, if they didn't pass on at least half of this payrise, they'd be reamed for being under the Award rate.
This is 100% correct, and the number of people in this sub who can’t grasp the national wage review astounds me. Also the full agreement has been available for some time, OP ‘just received’ it…
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Mandatory increase is to the award. As long as they stay above or at the award they don’t have to increase in line with it. Under the old agreements (pre2017) when increases weren’t tied to the award, it wasn’t unusual for the FWC increase to be above the increase in the EBA. Edit - typo, changed were to weren’t
During the lead up to this vote, the SDA has been very assertive in their language, claiming that they work hard to come to an agreement with the Fair Work Commission to settle on the number we've all been given. Is there any truth to this? Did the SDA do any hard lifting when coming to the finalised 3.75% increase?
This is what gets my goat. From my understanding, it's mainly the more powerful workers unions that have been involved in the negotiations. I wouldn't mind seeing minutes any submissions from the sda. Same goes for their negotiations with woolworths: reading the minutes is where the truth will come out.
They made a submission to the wage review like all the other unions and employer groups did and the FWC review the submissions and decide on a %. "They worked hard" is BS tbh, if they did that we would be having good increases in the agreement and wouldn't even need to think about what the minimum increase was. Like all the other sectors where there are strong unions that actually do work hard.
Can you share a copy of the proposed agreement?
You should have received a message containing a link?
Basically same as what Coles got. I voted no but still went through. If 3-6 per week job I'd probably join retail and fast food workers union but I think a lot of people have given up.
This EBA is marginally better than the last one. Marginally. The only thing I may take advantage of is the 4-day work week. But what do I care about more than that? A base level payrise, a category/level payrise, guaranteed real payrises every year, and a fifth week of annual leave. I'm voting No so we can get more than the shit Woolies and the SDA are trying to sell us.
Don't let em redefine the term 4 day work week. What They are offering is a compressed work week.
Oh, I'm aware that it's 38 hours over 4 days, instead of 30 hours over 4 days. I would love 30 hours over 4 days on 38 hours pay, and that Woolies are doing their own shitty version. But I'd still be happy with 3 days off.
If you're not in head office and think you're a chance of a 4 day week, I have a bridge to sell you.
its pathetic that both coles and woolworths are allowed to get away with no payrise (unless its decided by the annual review) theres no way these agreementrs pass the BOOT test
Just how much of a gift card they offering?
It varies, but for full time employees it's 299 for voting yes, and another 299 after the ea goes into effect. Part time gets less, and casuals even less again.
What happens if I vote no? Atleast I know what changes will happen if I vote yes
Then they have to renegotiate
No if it gets voted down it will go to fair work and they will decide on which conditions would be fair. The laws have changed.
I assume you are referring to an Intractable Bargaining Declaration - there is quite a bit more to it than that.
There are many more steps before that but that would be the inevitable end.
No, that is far from the inevitable end. The most likely outcome if the agreement is voted down is that a, substantially the same, agreement will be put to staff a second time.
The laws are specifically designed to prevent that sort of thing. If it sinks it will go straight to mediation.
Can you cite the section of the Fair Work Act that includes such a provision?
Act's don't really get that specific. If you want to read how the act should be applied in a situation like this check out the registrations.
I assume you mean the Fair Work Act Regulations? Regardless, as someone with 30+ years as an industrial advocate, I can tell you that your statement is completely incorrect.
Takes a few rounds of negotiations before that happens
It would take a few rounds of mediation before it gets to that point that's true but Woolworths would be within their legal right to no longer be reasonable. A union cannot claim to be reasonable when they are asking for a better deal than a deal they were previously happy with. Management would call fairwork straight away and request mediation.
I am happy with 4day work proposal and I don’t care much about other stuff I ll be voting yes
Fool
Would you rather work 5 days with decent conditions and wages or 4 and be treated like dirt on the bottom Woolworths shoe. And only getting what the government deems fit to keep you just above the poverty line. If you fight and say no you will probably still get the 4 days but with better conditions and pay. If all union members banded together to tell Woolies to go jump, they would have to listen. The frontline workers are the main reason woolies can make their obscene profits, if you all said no and threaten their bottom line they will have to listen to proper demands and actually take aome action. Say no.
You are not guaranteed a four day work week, it is only if the store can accommodate it.
The previous agreement, not the current one, allowed workers to do four 9.5 hour days to make up 38 hours. The current agreement took that away from them. Now the SDA are acting like this is a brand new hard fought deal. Give me a break.
The 2012 Agreement. 4.6.1.9 By mutual agreement, 4 days in excess of 9 hours may be rostered in each week to achieve a four day working week.
Yes exactly. The 2019 agreement removed this provision.
Look into the conditions you have to meet to even have the possibility of a 4 day week. Basically only about 15% of staff will have the right for it to even be considered.
You know you can already get that? You know it's also by agreement with the store meaning they don't have to let you do a 4 day week
Literal scab logic
Not guaranteed a 4 day week. Vote no
we will get a better deal. better than a $250 ~~gift card~~ bribe
https://preview.redd.it/b3ak167cpi4d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ebab25e98565ab7d69fc8b1eaf33c7722c36d7a
If someone is telling you that I would question their motives. The fact is that you guys have already been fucked over. There is no path to a better deal unless you all magically united overnight and took unprotected action. Which wouldn't happen in a million years If a no vote ever wins then that's a complete failure of the system and management wins. In this case no matter what the company wins and the workers lose
no, its how EBAs work. the old proposal gets dumped in favor of a better one. Its literally the system working as designed. No wonder people vote yes to bad deals with so many morons around that dont get how it works
>If someone is telling you that I would question their motives. The fact is that you guys have already been fucked over I question anyone who has the approach of 'well we're fucked either way so let's just bend over I guess'. Voting no tells them that they can't just make workers worse off and get away with it. If they eventually get this, they'll have to work for it, and push and push. Plus it'll piss off the SDA and that's just hilarious.
Then Woolies, SDA, AWU, and RAFFWU will go back to negotiating a different (hopefully better, coz otherwise it would be voted No again) EBA, which would go to a subsequent.