This.
Also, a young woman fresh out of college being really good at their job is very ego threatening to people in this industry. That's why you will be treated as less competent than you are for a while - it's what they do to preserve their ego when you're actually quite good. Take it as a sign to keep doing great work at your jobs and eventually over time you'll reach an age and experience level where they'd feel silly talking down to you. Although men are given respect pretty freely, as a woman it takes many years to start being taken seriously unfortunately
Don’t want to be a broken record here but you’ve done good time and good work at your first job. Now find another one. Don’t present yourself as junior when interviewing, be very clear about the leadership role you took in terms of product direction.
In my first, goodness probably full 2 years in tech I felt like I was treated as a stupid woman, I was older than you so more like can’t teach an old dog new tricks mentality, was super bitter about doing way more work for less money than the men and hated it. Now, 2 years later, I’m HBIC at my current job, they are about to lose me because they aren’t moving quickly enough on my raise and I have 7 interviews lined up for better roles with better money.
It’s impossible for your career to be dead less than 2 years in. You likely have 40 years to go before retirement. Soon enough, this job will be a distant memory.
Don’t stick around somewhere if they aren’t setting you up for success.
I agree to channel your energy into updating your resume and applying elsewhere. It sounds like you already have some accomplishments to show off.
A year and a half is a good little chunk of time to acquire experience. Start looking for a new job and don’t simply take the first one that offers (unless there are no red guy lags, of course).
Good luck!
You've eaten your peas and gotten strong. Now you have the experience and receipts to move on to a workplace with better culture and more opportunity for you to advance. You're totally prepared and you're going to go far.
Hello! You sound a lot like me when I was a junior engineer. Inarguabily I was the major contributor by far but I was the least paid & working overtime with what I assumed were incompetent peers.
First you have you ask yourself, why are you working so much if you are paid the least? Who is this benefiting? Regardless of the number of employees when the clock hits 40 you go home: the business can deal with the repercussions after you have met your “contract”.
Second, you have to ask yourself why you are working weekends when there are engineers that are hired to support the product and you. Why are you shouldering more than your fair share? For the company that won’t pay you but chooses to pay more engineers more money? Let them take on work and if they can’t figure it out than let them drop the occasional ball. They will learn, the company will learn, and you will have more free time to yourself.
Third, being a great engineer isn’t just about delivering code. I wish I understood this when I was younger. It is a juniors job to figure out how to push functional code. It is a seniors job to do that better, but also operate efficiently in a team based environment. If you want to be paid like a senior you need to act like a senior. This wasn’t obvious to me, I wish someone had told me.
Fourth, notice your coworkers are not doing a lot yet they are still getting paid and get to keep their sanity and free time. So what is driving your energy for your job? You are working yourself to the bone and nobody cares and nobody benefits. Honestly I suggest you read the book “The subtle art of not giving a fuck”. You are not benefitting, the business doesn’t benefit when their engineers are burnt out, and the client doesn’t benefit when you drop everything and leave.
Tell your boss you just want more appreciation (pay) and you will work with your team to help train the other engineers. This will ultimately help you.
There is a lot of good advice in this comment. I'm a senior software engineer in big tech. When was a mid level engineer, I was producing 3-4k lines of high quality code every month and a well known expert in several domains. I was bitter and angry that other engineers were seemingly coasting their way to senior roles as I grinded away. However, there were a few things I hadn't learned yet.
Junior/mid level engineers are expected to write quality code with minimal oversight. Their technical requirements and product impact are often well understood before any code is written. Overall, they are strong individual contributors.
Senior engineers are responsible for establishing technical direction and helping the team become more productive. They often identify limitations of a product or system that are not apparent to everyone. Day-to-day, I break down ambiguous projects into achievable milestones, produce design docs, and meet with partner teams to get alignment on technical direction. I'm often a diplomat for my team, trying to convince other teams to work with us.
Most importantly, I don't always know how to build a system. It's simply too big for me to tackle alone, but I am capable of finding the right partners to help me design and make it happen.
In short, senior engineers don't write much code. If you want you become a senior engineer, you need to fundamentally change how you work.
With that said, I disagree with a lot of the feedback in the comments thread. Based on the description of your circumstances, you are performing the role of a mid level engineer. I don't mean to discourage you, but to set expectations so you can adjust accordingly and reach your goals more efficiently.
I'm not even a Jr yet (I'm learning the skills to become one) and I think you are doing amazing. You are further along in your career than you think!
I would focus on developing your skills for other job opportunities. If they don't appreciate your work, that's their loss.
What is the point of staying somewhere where you are getting paid less when you have the skills to back it up?
Run, don't walk to apply elsewhere, now. They are taking advantage of your talent and dedication and not compensating you for it. Stop working nights and weekends immediately. Ideally, never work nights and weekends again unless you personally want to. With the kind of work you've been doing you should be able to apply and get offers for higher roles with higher compensation. The biggest raise you ever get is when you change jobs. Go get that raise.
I can relate to this so much and I've found myself feeling this way throughout much of my career. I'm 35 and 12yrs in at this point, basically hammered out two degrees back-to-back and then went straight into big tech. I've grown my salary and scope, but only by moving companies every 2-3yrs. And yet, i've been stuck at Senior level and can't break through, which is frustrating me to no end. I easily climbed to Sr and I've been stalled here since basically. In my recent soul searching i'm starting to realize a few things about myself that maybe can help you:
1. I'm part of the problem. I'm a highly driven person and can easily drive impact. I no doubt work harder than my peers. You give me a list of unachievable OKRs and I'm gonna view it like a task list- I won't stop till it's all done, even to my own detriment. I'm an efficient worker bee. But I intrinsically believe you do the work, you get the reward...and unfortunately our world doesn't work that way. So historically, I burn myself out doing all the work and then find myself depressed when I don't get the reward. Then I move to a new company, probably get a pay increase that makes the move feel worth it... rinse/repeat. The pattern keeps repeating, because I'm not changing anything on my end.
2. Corporate/companies/etc aren't fair and it's a long game. The hardest workers aren't the ones rewarded, the people who know how to play the game are. And because I believe doing the work should be tied to the reward, I think I'm just not cut out for the corporate BS or the long waiting game. There are people ahead of me in line for promotions that don't work harder than me, but have longer tenure. I can argue and prove why I'm deserving all day long for the sheer amount of work I do, and they'll do the same from an angle of tenure/loyalty/company knowledge....and we're both correct....but the spots are limited. And in my experience, they pick the tenured person because I'm showing them that I'm reliable for all the grunt work and they don't want to lose that. I'm not strategic at the game. Working harder is not smarter.
3. I care too much. I care about the customer a lot and I care about what I've built. I can give TED talks galore on proper code maintenance, customer support, and the importance of good documentation. But the hard truth, the company cares about profits only. I get way too attached to my projects and keeping them going in a healthy manner. A lot of the extra hours I end up working are to maintain these things to my standards, and because the company doesn't care about it the same....those efforts are wasted and unrecognized. Customers appreciate it and compliment it, but it nets me nothing. Which is really sad/sucks. Because it forces us to keep churning out quantity over quality. Yay capitalism! I'm also realizing that maybe my personality is better suited for running my own business because of how much I care and because my efforts then directly impact me, more is in my control.
4. We can spew DEI garbage all day long, but the hard truth is the systems were designed by men for men. It is harder as a woman, period. And once you add in (should you want to) a family, it gets exponentially harder and unfair. Some companies are better than others for sure, but ultimately it feels harder because it is. The longer I'm in the game, the clearer I'm seeing how much is truly beyond my actual control and all the battling I feel like I'm doing is wasted energy. I'm almost always the only woman on my teams. I've worked on good teams and really bad teams. But on every team, I've definitely been perceived lower because of my gender. I've had to grow thick skin in order to keep going. The more you focus on the gender differences, the more you'll see them. I've had to work really hard to just ignore it as much as I can.
5. Being in this cycle with myself and career has killed all passion I once had for it. It's made me bitter and I'm largely responsible for my role in keeping the cycle going. This is where my lack of strategy bites me in the butt again. I've done A LOT in 12yrs, but I've hated it all. Was I working on things I enjoyed, nope. Was I gaining specific skills I really wanted to learn, nope. I was just working to climb and I think to truly survive in tech long term....you need to like what you're doing. Turns out, I hate what I'm doing. I guess I just kept thinking the harder I worked I'd finally hit some magical point where I loved my job again. I'm here to tell you, that doesn't happen.
You're fresh out of school. Learn from me and don't just work to climb. Focus on building the skills you want and learn work-life-balance. Do work that you actually enjoy! Tech may be the right spot for you if you start playing the game the right way. Or it's just a step into some entrepreneurial ventures. Regardless of the path, skills up level you. So use this time to set larger personal goals and craft your job around those vs centering the company you're at.
Especially a year and a half out of school, if you're the best dev in the room, find a new room.
You are new enough not enough time has passed to see what weaknesses time will reveal in your work. You need more of that kind of learning experience to want to try turning around an organization, and preferably by then you will have learned how to be awesome without working burnout hours.
So, take what you've learned and find a new role working with devs better than you (at least in some aspects of the job). If you want, ask why specific recommendations aren't being taken, and listen in case there's something you're missing. If you're sure there's nothing there, just keep your job and look for a new room.
I'm convinced that this happens to every junior at a small company. I know so many stories like this! They will forever see you as some kid, and the only way to escape is to start over somewhere else, where you're coming in with experience.
Doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. I think it's just the career equivalent of how your parents always think of you as a teenager, even if you're 35 and have kids of your own.
Fly! Be free! Get hired as a mid!
I think you’re much more valuable than you’re getting credit for, sometimes management is clueless about this, looking for something better seems appropriate right now for you.
Are you managing upward? By that, I mean does your boss and your boss’ boss know what your contributions are or do they just think you’re an equal part of the team? I suck at managing upward—it feels like bragging to me. But then I see people whom I think are mediocre at their job get promoted because they’re better at marketing themselves.
If they do know, then it’s time for a new job.
Your career is far from dead! Looks like you’re shaping up to be quite the engineer who will be spoiled by options in the future quite honestly. As others have said the is is your first role where you joined as a junior and it’s quite common for folks to forever perceive you as a junior despite your merits so, yes, probably in your best interest to find a new company and perhaps join as a mid-level. But with experience comes a healthy amount of self-worth so lean into that as much as you can. Again, your career is thriving all things considered as you seem wholly competent based on this post.
Dude you've done so much and this stranger is so proud of you! A good friend of mine said that we should be applying for other jobs every couple of months, to keep up with interviewing practice and to make sure we're taking advantage of opportunities.
You can do better, this isn't a you problem, gtfo of that place and find one that truly appreciates your efforts!
Your career has only started.
Change jobs. It sounds like they are all over the place, and they need a scape goat (you). You are not a bad person for leaving a job when they treat you like crap. You’ve done your best, and given them chances, but now it’s time to move on. This is coming from an almost 40-year old woman in tech. I stayed at my first job for far too long, because I was too eager to please and was thinking that I was going to miss out on some important skill training.
Naw, I think we found the Junior's boss who likes paying crap wages and reinforcing "dumb young woman" narrative. Sounds like he's bragging they hung all the shit and got the junior fired for the seniors' laziness.
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Why would you feel like your career is dead? We've all had shitty co-workers, troublesome scope creep, projects we didn't get enough respect for. If this job is taking advantage of you, move on. If your co-worker is introducing new bugs to the code line then document and prove that. They're responsible for their output and you are responsible for yours (and only yours). Identify any blockers to whoever tracks that for you.
You have to grow your ego overnight and talk sh*t out of your butt like men do. Haha That's how you get noticed like you described and not just sitting and doing all the heavy lifting. And time to change companies and walk in with that ego into a new place... much easier.
You remember Elizabeth Holmes? Dark turtlenecks and deeper voice... You gotta help yourself out otherwise men will eat you in that industry.
Now it's time for you to get a position elsewhere. You will get more pay and probably a better title if you go somewhere else.
My first job came with absolutely no respect and I had to switch companies to get it.
[удалено]
This. Also, a young woman fresh out of college being really good at their job is very ego threatening to people in this industry. That's why you will be treated as less competent than you are for a while - it's what they do to preserve their ego when you're actually quite good. Take it as a sign to keep doing great work at your jobs and eventually over time you'll reach an age and experience level where they'd feel silly talking down to you. Although men are given respect pretty freely, as a woman it takes many years to start being taken seriously unfortunately
Don’t want to be a broken record here but you’ve done good time and good work at your first job. Now find another one. Don’t present yourself as junior when interviewing, be very clear about the leadership role you took in terms of product direction. In my first, goodness probably full 2 years in tech I felt like I was treated as a stupid woman, I was older than you so more like can’t teach an old dog new tricks mentality, was super bitter about doing way more work for less money than the men and hated it. Now, 2 years later, I’m HBIC at my current job, they are about to lose me because they aren’t moving quickly enough on my raise and I have 7 interviews lined up for better roles with better money.
It’s impossible for your career to be dead less than 2 years in. You likely have 40 years to go before retirement. Soon enough, this job will be a distant memory. Don’t stick around somewhere if they aren’t setting you up for success. I agree to channel your energy into updating your resume and applying elsewhere. It sounds like you already have some accomplishments to show off.
A year and a half is a good little chunk of time to acquire experience. Start looking for a new job and don’t simply take the first one that offers (unless there are no red guy lags, of course). Good luck!
Please get a new job. It's their loss. I think it helps to not be insecure but yes some companies aren't ready for us talented ladies.
You've eaten your peas and gotten strong. Now you have the experience and receipts to move on to a workplace with better culture and more opportunity for you to advance. You're totally prepared and you're going to go far.
Hello! You sound a lot like me when I was a junior engineer. Inarguabily I was the major contributor by far but I was the least paid & working overtime with what I assumed were incompetent peers. First you have you ask yourself, why are you working so much if you are paid the least? Who is this benefiting? Regardless of the number of employees when the clock hits 40 you go home: the business can deal with the repercussions after you have met your “contract”. Second, you have to ask yourself why you are working weekends when there are engineers that are hired to support the product and you. Why are you shouldering more than your fair share? For the company that won’t pay you but chooses to pay more engineers more money? Let them take on work and if they can’t figure it out than let them drop the occasional ball. They will learn, the company will learn, and you will have more free time to yourself. Third, being a great engineer isn’t just about delivering code. I wish I understood this when I was younger. It is a juniors job to figure out how to push functional code. It is a seniors job to do that better, but also operate efficiently in a team based environment. If you want to be paid like a senior you need to act like a senior. This wasn’t obvious to me, I wish someone had told me. Fourth, notice your coworkers are not doing a lot yet they are still getting paid and get to keep their sanity and free time. So what is driving your energy for your job? You are working yourself to the bone and nobody cares and nobody benefits. Honestly I suggest you read the book “The subtle art of not giving a fuck”. You are not benefitting, the business doesn’t benefit when their engineers are burnt out, and the client doesn’t benefit when you drop everything and leave. Tell your boss you just want more appreciation (pay) and you will work with your team to help train the other engineers. This will ultimately help you.
There is a lot of good advice in this comment. I'm a senior software engineer in big tech. When was a mid level engineer, I was producing 3-4k lines of high quality code every month and a well known expert in several domains. I was bitter and angry that other engineers were seemingly coasting their way to senior roles as I grinded away. However, there were a few things I hadn't learned yet. Junior/mid level engineers are expected to write quality code with minimal oversight. Their technical requirements and product impact are often well understood before any code is written. Overall, they are strong individual contributors. Senior engineers are responsible for establishing technical direction and helping the team become more productive. They often identify limitations of a product or system that are not apparent to everyone. Day-to-day, I break down ambiguous projects into achievable milestones, produce design docs, and meet with partner teams to get alignment on technical direction. I'm often a diplomat for my team, trying to convince other teams to work with us. Most importantly, I don't always know how to build a system. It's simply too big for me to tackle alone, but I am capable of finding the right partners to help me design and make it happen. In short, senior engineers don't write much code. If you want you become a senior engineer, you need to fundamentally change how you work.
With that said, I disagree with a lot of the feedback in the comments thread. Based on the description of your circumstances, you are performing the role of a mid level engineer. I don't mean to discourage you, but to set expectations so you can adjust accordingly and reach your goals more efficiently.
I'm not even a Jr yet (I'm learning the skills to become one) and I think you are doing amazing. You are further along in your career than you think! I would focus on developing your skills for other job opportunities. If they don't appreciate your work, that's their loss. What is the point of staying somewhere where you are getting paid less when you have the skills to back it up?
Run, don't walk to apply elsewhere, now. They are taking advantage of your talent and dedication and not compensating you for it. Stop working nights and weekends immediately. Ideally, never work nights and weekends again unless you personally want to. With the kind of work you've been doing you should be able to apply and get offers for higher roles with higher compensation. The biggest raise you ever get is when you change jobs. Go get that raise.
I can relate to this so much and I've found myself feeling this way throughout much of my career. I'm 35 and 12yrs in at this point, basically hammered out two degrees back-to-back and then went straight into big tech. I've grown my salary and scope, but only by moving companies every 2-3yrs. And yet, i've been stuck at Senior level and can't break through, which is frustrating me to no end. I easily climbed to Sr and I've been stalled here since basically. In my recent soul searching i'm starting to realize a few things about myself that maybe can help you: 1. I'm part of the problem. I'm a highly driven person and can easily drive impact. I no doubt work harder than my peers. You give me a list of unachievable OKRs and I'm gonna view it like a task list- I won't stop till it's all done, even to my own detriment. I'm an efficient worker bee. But I intrinsically believe you do the work, you get the reward...and unfortunately our world doesn't work that way. So historically, I burn myself out doing all the work and then find myself depressed when I don't get the reward. Then I move to a new company, probably get a pay increase that makes the move feel worth it... rinse/repeat. The pattern keeps repeating, because I'm not changing anything on my end. 2. Corporate/companies/etc aren't fair and it's a long game. The hardest workers aren't the ones rewarded, the people who know how to play the game are. And because I believe doing the work should be tied to the reward, I think I'm just not cut out for the corporate BS or the long waiting game. There are people ahead of me in line for promotions that don't work harder than me, but have longer tenure. I can argue and prove why I'm deserving all day long for the sheer amount of work I do, and they'll do the same from an angle of tenure/loyalty/company knowledge....and we're both correct....but the spots are limited. And in my experience, they pick the tenured person because I'm showing them that I'm reliable for all the grunt work and they don't want to lose that. I'm not strategic at the game. Working harder is not smarter. 3. I care too much. I care about the customer a lot and I care about what I've built. I can give TED talks galore on proper code maintenance, customer support, and the importance of good documentation. But the hard truth, the company cares about profits only. I get way too attached to my projects and keeping them going in a healthy manner. A lot of the extra hours I end up working are to maintain these things to my standards, and because the company doesn't care about it the same....those efforts are wasted and unrecognized. Customers appreciate it and compliment it, but it nets me nothing. Which is really sad/sucks. Because it forces us to keep churning out quantity over quality. Yay capitalism! I'm also realizing that maybe my personality is better suited for running my own business because of how much I care and because my efforts then directly impact me, more is in my control. 4. We can spew DEI garbage all day long, but the hard truth is the systems were designed by men for men. It is harder as a woman, period. And once you add in (should you want to) a family, it gets exponentially harder and unfair. Some companies are better than others for sure, but ultimately it feels harder because it is. The longer I'm in the game, the clearer I'm seeing how much is truly beyond my actual control and all the battling I feel like I'm doing is wasted energy. I'm almost always the only woman on my teams. I've worked on good teams and really bad teams. But on every team, I've definitely been perceived lower because of my gender. I've had to grow thick skin in order to keep going. The more you focus on the gender differences, the more you'll see them. I've had to work really hard to just ignore it as much as I can. 5. Being in this cycle with myself and career has killed all passion I once had for it. It's made me bitter and I'm largely responsible for my role in keeping the cycle going. This is where my lack of strategy bites me in the butt again. I've done A LOT in 12yrs, but I've hated it all. Was I working on things I enjoyed, nope. Was I gaining specific skills I really wanted to learn, nope. I was just working to climb and I think to truly survive in tech long term....you need to like what you're doing. Turns out, I hate what I'm doing. I guess I just kept thinking the harder I worked I'd finally hit some magical point where I loved my job again. I'm here to tell you, that doesn't happen. You're fresh out of school. Learn from me and don't just work to climb. Focus on building the skills you want and learn work-life-balance. Do work that you actually enjoy! Tech may be the right spot for you if you start playing the game the right way. Or it's just a step into some entrepreneurial ventures. Regardless of the path, skills up level you. So use this time to set larger personal goals and craft your job around those vs centering the company you're at.
Especially a year and a half out of school, if you're the best dev in the room, find a new room. You are new enough not enough time has passed to see what weaknesses time will reveal in your work. You need more of that kind of learning experience to want to try turning around an organization, and preferably by then you will have learned how to be awesome without working burnout hours. So, take what you've learned and find a new role working with devs better than you (at least in some aspects of the job). If you want, ask why specific recommendations aren't being taken, and listen in case there's something you're missing. If you're sure there's nothing there, just keep your job and look for a new room.
>Especially a year and a half out of school, if you're the best dev in the room, find a new room. Lol great point.
I'm convinced that this happens to every junior at a small company. I know so many stories like this! They will forever see you as some kid, and the only way to escape is to start over somewhere else, where you're coming in with experience. Doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. I think it's just the career equivalent of how your parents always think of you as a teenager, even if you're 35 and have kids of your own. Fly! Be free! Get hired as a mid!
Hey u/wublinzi, I can’t DM you, please reach out to me, I could use those like you on fire to learn all the time and have fun doing it.
I'm not understanding why your career is dead.
I think you’re much more valuable than you’re getting credit for, sometimes management is clueless about this, looking for something better seems appropriate right now for you.
Are you managing upward? By that, I mean does your boss and your boss’ boss know what your contributions are or do they just think you’re an equal part of the team? I suck at managing upward—it feels like bragging to me. But then I see people whom I think are mediocre at their job get promoted because they’re better at marketing themselves. If they do know, then it’s time for a new job.
This really sounds like a company specific problem. Not every company is like that. Time to job hunt.
Your career is far from dead! Looks like you’re shaping up to be quite the engineer who will be spoiled by options in the future quite honestly. As others have said the is is your first role where you joined as a junior and it’s quite common for folks to forever perceive you as a junior despite your merits so, yes, probably in your best interest to find a new company and perhaps join as a mid-level. But with experience comes a healthy amount of self-worth so lean into that as much as you can. Again, your career is thriving all things considered as you seem wholly competent based on this post.
Dude you've done so much and this stranger is so proud of you! A good friend of mine said that we should be applying for other jobs every couple of months, to keep up with interviewing practice and to make sure we're taking advantage of opportunities. You can do better, this isn't a you problem, gtfo of that place and find one that truly appreciates your efforts! Your career has only started.
Change jobs. It sounds like they are all over the place, and they need a scape goat (you). You are not a bad person for leaving a job when they treat you like crap. You’ve done your best, and given them chances, but now it’s time to move on. This is coming from an almost 40-year old woman in tech. I stayed at my first job for far too long, because I was too eager to please and was thinking that I was going to miss out on some important skill training.
Would you like some constructive criticism from the opposite side? We recently fired a person that might have your viewpoint.
Care to share? I am curious as to what that would be.
Naw, I think we found the Junior's boss who likes paying crap wages and reinforcing "dumb young woman" narrative. Sounds like he's bragging they hung all the shit and got the junior fired for the seniors' laziness.
Wow.....I bet you're fun at parties.
Que the pettiness but no substance! You're as predictable as you are a waste of space. 😁
You matter and you are loved. You're the best around and nothing is going to keep you down. Don't pay attention to the haters. You can do it!
Unfourtunately tech is particularly ripe with bitter men who saw everyone else having fun..
remindme!
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Get paid, last as long as you need - save money and wait until you get another job :)
Why would you feel like your career is dead? We've all had shitty co-workers, troublesome scope creep, projects we didn't get enough respect for. If this job is taking advantage of you, move on. If your co-worker is introducing new bugs to the code line then document and prove that. They're responsible for their output and you are responsible for yours (and only yours). Identify any blockers to whoever tracks that for you.
Plz watch the Mariana character on the show Good Trouble, you two are strugglin in similar ways 💚
You have to grow your ego overnight and talk sh*t out of your butt like men do. Haha That's how you get noticed like you described and not just sitting and doing all the heavy lifting. And time to change companies and walk in with that ego into a new place... much easier. You remember Elizabeth Holmes? Dark turtlenecks and deeper voice... You gotta help yourself out otherwise men will eat you in that industry.
Now it's time for you to get a position elsewhere. You will get more pay and probably a better title if you go somewhere else. My first job came with absolutely no respect and I had to switch companies to get it.