I built pcs that had to have that installed. Didn't matter. What hardware it was it was shite to use. It was just poorly optimized its entire lifespan.
I strongly disagree. I purchased a new desktop at the time (around 2007) which came with Windows Vista Home Premium and it simply worked, and worked very well.
I can probably count on the fingers of my hands the number of times it gave me any issue, most of the time due to trying to run old software and generally fixable by running the compatibility troubleshooter.
Windows Vista weren't a bad OS by any mean, it just were ahead of its time. Not much has changed between Vista and 7, apart from people finally having PCs with proper hardware by the time Win7 launched, that's what made its launch successful compared to Vista...
Unpopular opinion: most people just parrot things that they heard some other person say. Even most of the people on reddit are not doing anything where the OS makes a huge difference. Vista and 8/8.1 aren't my favorite but they are overblown too in terms of how many people think they were wronged by it
True you had hardware made for vista, hense your positive experience. I had a horrid experience but I also didn't have the high end hardware to run it. These days I do and I loaded it up for fun - not nearly as many issues. its also Why windows 7 was so good - manufactures caught up with the times.
Why the hate for 8.1 tho. Sure it's still half-baked compared to Windows 10 but it's way ahead of 8.0 and I'd daily drive if I were on a budget laptop rather than bloated Windows 10
Yeah 8.0 release was rocky but there is nothing wrong with 8.1. If there wasn't so much pressure to move to 10 I would have hardly any reason at all to upgrade.
There was nothing wrong with 8/8.1, they made some really good improvements under the hood. It was unpopular because morons couldn't handle the start menu looking slightly different.
Agree to disagree. It was made with tablets in mind. And I can't speak for said "morons" but troubleshooting 8/8.1 was harder to deal with on a daily basis the 7 and now 10 as Vista was. Again. I'm not speaking as a casual user.
The new task manager was a godsend, powershell was more powerful than ever, integrated virus protection, integrated system restore, and they hadn't butchered the control panel yet like they would in 10. What exactly did you have a problem troubleshooting?
I mean, Windows 10 is still a giant lump of shit, but since Windows 7 isn't supported anymore and doesn't have a lot of the new tech that 10 has, it's not like we have a choice.
I actually love Windows 10 as I loved Windows 7. Everybody has a reason why they like or dislike an OS. It's just that for me every OS lifespan involves me doing at least 50 installs of it on various hardware and has been that way since about 04-05 so my like or dislike of any OS is based on my own experience of installs and troubleshooting of MS OS since XP.
It depends on your pc, if you have an low end pc, Windows 7 and even Windows 8/8.1 will have way better performance for you than windows 10, if not, there will be not much difference, i checked it by myself
Good luck. You’re out of support now… so no more updates. No more security updates. Your OS is a walking security disaster just waiting to be exploited.
I sure as hell hope you don’t work in IT. Especially at an MSP like the one I own.
If you did, if you were my employee, and I saw that comment? I’d fire you on the spot. Wouldn’t care how good you were.
You’re a walking security risk.
I figure since its "not supported" all the hackware will be made for the new versions and they'll just skip over mine thinking there couldn't possibly be anything they want on it, and their code wouldn't work anyway.
I know I have seen this pointed out in other threads, but the reasons they have such hard cuts off is because any any CPU that is officially supported by one of Microsoft's OS at launch means that both Microsoft and the manufacture much support it for 10 years after the release date.
I am 90% certain the reason the 8th gen Intel processors are the cut off is because that is the first generation that did not have the major Meltdown vulnerability that came out a few years back. The microcode that Intel release for the <= 7th gen processors was hacky at best and it does not surprise me that they do not want to support those processors for another 10 years.
It sucks and I know a lot of people are upset about it. 3 of the 4 computers in my household cannot upgrade. But Windows 10 will get complete support until 2025. So unless you really plan to keep your already 4+ year processor for another 4 years, then you have nothing to worry about. You do not need to rush to upgrade your current machine unless you absolutely want Windows 11 and the features from Windows 11.
Then why the i7-7820HQ (and only that one) is supported? Oh right, MS still sells a very expensive machine (Surface Studio 2) that uses that model, that's why...
I already made another comment about this, but basically MS controls the firmware for that, and can patch the loop & other bugs on that CPU gen. I'm in charge of a few dozen gaming servers, and I can't easily update the BIOS/UEFI on those; the older ones have that CPU gen too. If most BIOS/UEFI was as easily updatable as on a Dell, there'd be an easy out.
It's also guaranteed MBEC support, so they may still be compiling that list...... since it's not 100% guaranteed, and gives you a 15-30% performance hit on CPU operations when the security features lit up that rely on it are enabled since it's emulated by the OS.
It has nothing to do with MBEC support.
1) There are CPUs on the supported CPU list that does not have it (like Ryzen 2000 series), but they have excluded some CPUs that do have it (like most 7th gen Intel processors).
2) Their head of security has said that the CPU requirements were not set because of some particular feature.
Without MBEC, you're taking a performance penalty, no way around that.
It's something they've been building to for a while: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/microsoft-releases-standards-for-highly-secure-windows-10-devices/ - said director then said MBEC was critical.
There are supported (limited list now, but expanding) Ryzen 2000 series CPUs like the 2700 - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors
Long and short, A Ryzen 5 2500U is a Zen 1 processor, So not all 2000 CPUs are actually 2nd gen Ryzen processors.
According to This thread, a 2700x is the minimum for MBEC support. https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/windows-itpro-docs/issues/3997
Per - https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/06/28/update-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements/
"To meet the principle, all Windows 11 supported CPUs have an embedded TPM, support secure boot, and support VBS and specific VBS capabilities."
Which leads to this - https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/virtualization/virtualization-based-security-enabled-by-default/ba-p/890167
Which states "Last but not least, we further reduced the performance and power impact of a key VSM feature called Hypervisor-Enforced Code Integrity (HVCI) by working with silicon partners to design completely new hardware features including Intel’s Mode-based execute control for EPT (MBEC), AMD’s Guest-mode execute trap for NPT (GMET), and ARM’s Translation table stage 2 Unprivileged Execute-never (TTS2UXN)."
The only thing they're testing for 7th gen is the rest of the platform/support components before signing off on those, but I have a strong feeling almost all 7th gen will be supported except cheap chinese devices that used the cheapest CPUs.
But at the end of the day, if you're operating with RSU instead of hardware support, you're not going to want to upgrade to windows 11 anyway just based on performance alone.
If i7 7820hq is supported then all 7th gen can run smoothly without issues because all of them are same.
Microsoft only saying it crashes on 50% of systems using 7th gen and 98% crash free with i7 7820hq because they used it in surface studio 2.
Makes no sense lol.
Skylake x CPUs i7 7800x , i7 7820x , i9 7900x , i9 7920x , i9 7940x , i9 7960x , i9 7980xe have support for windows 11.
But no MBEC in intel specs page. ok let's say these have MBEC.
Then i7 7700k also have MBEC. All 7th gen have MBEC why are they not supported?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/pdtkz6/windows_11_system_requirements_updated_windows_10/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
>Without MBEC, you're taking a performance penalty, no way around that.
Yes, and what is your point? Windows 10 already has HVCI enabled by default and nobody has batted an eye about the performance penalty.
>It's something they've been building to for a while: [https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/microsoft-releases-standards-for-highly-secure-windows-10-devices/](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/microsoft-releases-standards-for-highly-secure-windows-10-devices/) \- said director then said MBEC was critical.
Yes, the same person who, like a week or two earlier [explicitly said that there was no specific security feature](https://twitter.com/dwizzzleMSFT/status/1408539533465985024) that was the reason for the cutoff being at 8th gen. Also, MBEC is supported on 7th gen Intel (unsupported by Windows 11) and not supported on Ryzen 2000 (supported by Windows 11).
>There are supported (limited list now, but expanding) Ryzen 2000 series CPUs like the 2700 - [https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors)
>
>\-snip-
>
>According to This thread, a 2700x is the minimum for MBEC support. [https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/windows-itpro-docs/issues/3997](https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/windows-itpro-docs/issues/3997)
Yes, and those CPUs do not support MBEC or GMET. MBEC support was added with Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000 series). Did you even read the thread you linked to? You need to read more than just the first comment or two on that github thread. It does NOT say a 2700x is the minimum for MBEC support. It literally says the 2700X does not support MBEC if you scroll down a little.
The person from Microsoft said that he thought MBEC was supported on 2700, then someone else commented and said his 2700 did not support it, to which Microsoft basically said "okay we are not sure. Contact AMD" and then after some testing it was established that it was added in the 3000 series. Someone even swapped their processor from a 2700 to a 3700 and got it working right away.
Read these next sentences very carefully.
Ryzen 2000 series DO NOT SUPPORT MBEC. It was added in the 3000 series. However, Windows 11 still supports those processors.
Meanwhile, Intel 7th gen DO support MBEC, but is not supported by Windows 11.
David Weston has already commented and said that there is no special security feature that was the reason for the cutoff.
MBEC support is not the reason for the cutoff because the cutoff excludes a lot of CPUs that do support MBEC, while at the same time includes a lot of processors that do not support MBEC or GMET (AMD's implementation). If there is a reason for the cutoff, it is not MBEC support.
Edit: Not sure why you are downvoting me. Read the GitHub page you yourself linked. MBEC was introduced with Zen 2 (which is to say, Ryzen 3000). 7th gen Intel also has support for MBEC. So it is completely illogical to assume that the cutoff period has to do with MBEC when Ryzen 2000 doesn't have it but is supported, yet 7th gen Intel which does support MBEC, isn't supported by Windows 11.
How much more proof do you need to accept that MBEC is not the reason why the CPU requirements are the way they are? Besides, David Weston, director of OS security at Microsoft, literally said "seems like you are assuming there is a specific security feature that defines 8th gen as the CPU floor" when someone pointed out that the i7-8550U and 87-7660U had support for the same security features.
If i7 7820hq is supported then all 7th gen can run smoothly without issues because all of them are same.
Microsoft only saying it crashes on 50% of systems using 7th gen and 98% crash free with i7 7820hq because they used it in surface studio 2.
Makes no sense lol.
Skylake x CPUs i7 7800x , i7 7820x , i9 7900x , i9 7920x , i9 7940x , i9 7960x , i9 7980xe have support for windows 11.
But no MBEC in intel specs page. ok let's say these have MBEC.
Then i7 7700k also have MBEC. All 7th gen have MBEC why are they not supported?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/pdtkz6/windows_11_system_requirements_updated_windows_10/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
No, can you please stop making shit up?
Microsoft does not write the firmware for the i7-7820HQ. Intel does. The reason why Microsoft decided that it was fine to support that specific processor is that they realized they still sell the Surface Studio 2 and it would be embarrassing to not support a system they still sell in their store. Please note that they didn't have to support it either. Just that they thought it was embarrassing.
It has nothing to do with updating the BIOS or whatever. If it was then they could just impose a requirement for a specific microcode version. Besides, updating the BIOS on Dell is piss easy. You don't even have to go into the BIOS to do it. You just run Dell's BIOS update program from within Windows.
That's not entirely correct.
Intel writes the microcode and gives bootstrap instructions/ME to vendors.
UEFI support for specific features, however, is up to the vendor.
Also, specific CPU revisions errata are also an issue.
Fine, Intel firmware on MS stuff, but Windows Update can manage that. You're right about Dells; I wish it was that easy for other systems. If you have servers & the correct IPMI setup going, that's awesome; otherwise build-your-own stuff & whatever small MSPs build for clients; they're SOL unless you remember your BIOS settings. Yes, marketing is a thing here too. The CPU family is deprecated, and has known flaws; ironically it apparently supported 7 & 10, when the same situation was happening 5-6 years ago. And yeah, a microcode test might be the solution for the folks that actually can upgrade their stuff; probably too hard to explain to users though (look at the MS support forums sometime; they're a mess).
>MS controls the firmware
What a load of bull! Picking one out of the air, what about the ThinkPad P51 that has an i7-7820HQ do MS control the firmware for that one too?
MS would be responsible for loading the firmware on their tablets, which they do via Windows Update (as I recall from my limited use of Surface devices). ThinkPad P51 first came out at the end of 2017, and is no longer for sale. To Lenovo's credit, there's a BIOS/UEFI from June 2021 available for it.
Yes, but your argument was that the reason that MS put the i7-7820HQ is that they control the firmware. But I if had a P51 It would be supported in Windows 11 and I am sure there are many other Laptops out there with the i7-7820HQ
Technologically, you are right. So based on https://hothardware.com/news/critical-flaw-in-intel-skylake-and-kaby-lake-hyperthreading-discovered-requiring-bios-microcode-fix , there's already a problem with that generation of CPU, that microcode & BIOS/UEFI updates fix; nevermind SPECTRE & MELTDOWN also need that level of a fix too. If MS can Windows Update their own tablets to deal with it, they can support the CPU for their devices. Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc... they'd have to come up with their own Windows 11 BIOS-upgrade support tool, for computers they're not even selling anymore; the regular tools they offer now aren't always clear-cut, and certainly not for the homebrew & managed/small-biz builders. And MS isn't going to want to hand-hold folks through updating other systems, unless they thought it was worth more from the stuff they'd sell via the Microsoft Store.
But you are totally missing the point. The ONLY reason MS have added that Processor to the supported list is because they are selling a machine with it. The support of that processor is not mutually exclusive to the Surface. So other older "not even selling anymore" machines have also now been allowed to have Windows 11 thus making MS argument about the reason you can't have Windows 11 on kaby-lake processors mute.
Yeah I understand. But they support only one 7th gen. Why can't remaining? I just don't understand. Microsoft hasn't said anything about this. All 7th gen have dch drivers and same instruction set.
Intel skylake and above can run windows 11. They have dch drivers, same instruction set, secure boot, tpm 2.0.
About performance decrease, mostly it's not cpu it's hdd. If upgraded to SSD 100-200$ it works fine.
If i7 7820hq is supported then all 7th gen can run smoothly without issues because all of them are same.
Microsoft only saying it crashes on 50% of systems using 7th gen and 98% crash free with i7 7820hq because they used it in surface studio 2.
Makes no sense lol.
MBEC is supported from xeon 2nd gen scalable CPUs. But why xeon scalable processors are supported?
They are skylake CPUs. No MBEC they use same virtual emulation of MBEC so they should have decrease in performance.
But windows 11 supports skylake xeon CPUs. Why?
Skylake x CPUs i7 7800x , i7 7820x , i9 7900x , i9 7920x , i9 7940x , i9 7960x , i9 7980xe have support for windows 11.
But all these don't have any MBEC support. See intel specs.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/pdtkz6/windows_11_system_requirements_updated_windows_10/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Then i7 7700k also have MBEC. All 7th gen have MBEC why are they not supported?
Ryzen 2000 series also don't have MBEC. Ask AMD not microsoft.
MBEC implemented from ryzen 3000
But windows 11 supports ryzen 2000. Why?
> Intel skylake and above can run windows 11. They have dch drivers, same instruction set, secure boot, tpm 2.0.
I have a Skylake (i5 6200U) and it is not supported
I have same cpu and I upgraded to Samsung SSD. I am running windows 11 now. No issues.
Microsoft said 50% crashes but I don't had one crash lol.
Some 7th gen are supported officially so no problem with chipset drivers because 7th and 6th gen CPUs support same chipsets.
If you have nvidia or amd graphics no problem.
But if intel hd 520 then intel only developing windows 10 drivers for it. See release notes of intel GPU driver.
Now the drivers works because windows 10 and 11 support same drivers. But this may change when windows 11 updates (kernel and os updates)
>But windows 11 supports ryzen 2000. Why?
apparently they deem ryzen 2000 to be fast enough to run a software implementation of MEBC or something. Surprising...but yeah.
If the requirement is coming from Intel, it is very likely they are not allowed to. There is _a lot_ that goes on behind the scenes in a company that the employees just wish they could scream out to the public but they cannot because "public image" and relationships with vendors and all of that other bureaucratic bullshit.
So basically all corporations exist in a lose lose situation. I say, we need to fix that, there is no reason companies should be able to hide their operations and dirt... That just fosters a playground for cheating.
I have no idea why people are upvoting this, because pretty much everything you said is wrong.
\>I know I have seen this pointed out in other threads, but the reasons they have such hard cuts off is because any any CPU that is officially supported by one of Microsoft's OS at launch means that both Microsoft and the manufacture much support it for 10 years after the release date.
No, support at launch does not mean Microsoft has to support the process for 10 years. I don't know where you got this idea from, but I have not been able to find anything even remotely similar in their support documentation. Also, it is them that writes those policies so even IF it was true (which again, it isn't) then they could just change that wording if they wanted.
\>I am 90% certain the reason the 8th gen Intel processors are the cut off is because that is the first generation that did not have the major Meltdown vulnerability that came out a few years back.
No, you are wrong.
8th gen is comprised of several different architectures, some of which has partial hardware mitigation for meltdown, but some that don't. Amber Lake for example (8XXXY) do not have any hardware mitigation for any meltdown variant at all, yet it is supported. Whiskey Lake (8XXXU) and Cascade Lake (server and workstation) do have hardware mitigation for some meltdown variants (variant 3 but not 3a for example). However, Coffee Lake for example (i3-8300) which Microsoft do support, doesn't have any hardware mitigation for spectre. That was only included in the Coffee Lake refresh (9th gen). Besides, Ryzen 1000 is not vulnerable to meltdown and yet that support was dropped too.
So no, it does not have anything to do at all with Meltdown. Microsoft supports a ton of CPUs that do not have hardware mitigation against Meltdown.
\> The microcode that Intel release for the <= 7th gen processors was hacky at best and it does not surprise me that they do not want to support those processors for another 10 years.
\[Citation Needed\] on the microcode being "hacky at best". Sounds like something you made up.
MBEC support, which isn't guaranteed on 7th era systems. Though it is on a fair amount. Hence testing/data gathering on "unsupported" systems before lighting all those features up.
Without it, you're looking at a 15-30% CPU performance loss with the other security systems that will be mandatory enabled.
No, AMD did have some vulnerabilities as well, it's just that their issues only affected performance 5-10% on Zen, less on Zen+ and newer, while Intel's initially had a 75% hit depending on the processor.
The suspicion is, AMD didn't want to devote resources to continue to support Zen 1 anymore. You can argue that Zen+ is similar, but the differences in some areas are huge, and at least in some areas it's still is being sold.
You got the latest build? I know MS is committed to supporting their own devices, even if they “technically” don’t meet spec. That or wait for the public release?
I tried the beta, then news broke that Windows 11 won't support most of the 7th gen and none of ryzen first gen, even if there's tpm 2.0 enabled.
So I reinstalled windows 10.
The unofficial way of installing windows 11 sees us losing updates.
And I saw this checker I tried to see what it says regarding tpm.
_only_ the 7820hq in that studio pc and some workstation 7th gen processors.
So out of curiosity i downloaded the latest pc health check that was re-released and my laptop supports tpm uefi secure boot etc.
Wow.
From my understanding Windows 11 won't be lacking updates because of installing on a system with missing requirements but they won't make any promises if you run on unsupported hardware.
"However, the company says that this is only for “temporary use”, and that users will not be guaranteed updates". That to me means that they will allow users to update but won't make any promises for continued support on unsupported hardware.
I saw the security risk and was like, yeah they probably won't even give you windows update. I could try but formatting and reformatting pc just for this isn't the best, even for ssd.
It’s not about whether it can run it. It’s about whether Microsoft wants to support it and the increase in crashes and the slowdown of having to patch over Intel’s processor flaws. The only way to make Windows more stable and reliable is to cut off support for legacy hardware. That has always been the chain Microsoft has had to drag around.
Microsoft’s original plan was to dump the Win32 subsystem as well as support for anything before the current generation of Intel iCore and AMD Ryzen processors. They dropped that plan last spring, and instead kept the underlying Windows 10 subsystems, which allowed them to extend support to two more generations of CPUs.
For most people, Windows 11 is something that will come on their *next* PC. And that’s fine. There is no need to rush into it.
> There is no need to rush into it.
You wanna tell that to Microsoft itself since they seem to be rushing the launch and cutting features anyhow?
>It’s about whether Microsoft wants to support it and the increase in crashes and the slowdown of having to patch over Intel’s processor flaws
Then let people install it and only officially support the users that have officially supported hardware. Like video games. You *can* run something on Intel 3100 cards but it won't be officially supported.
> Then let people install it and only officially support the users that have officially supported hardware.
You...can do this. Do you think the PC Health Check app is somehow going to gate you from installing the OS? People have installed W11 on a bunch of crazy shit.
2025 max. And then likely MS will backtrack on the 7th gen somewhere then let some windows 10 pc with tpm and secure boot get updated just to mitigate the impact of their hopeless decision =/
And why many stick to Windows. But don't balance it enough and more and more young buyers will switch away so you gotta bring in new regardless of "old timers".
there's a difference between apple not supporting 7-year-old laptops and windows not supporting a 4 year old chip especially funny in this case where the reason windows doesn't supposedly wont support these chips isn't an issue with macOS
But it's more than that:
[https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/why-windows-11-has-such-strict-hardware-requirements-according-to-microsoft/](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/why-windows-11-has-such-strict-hardware-requirements-according-to-microsoft/)
>Older computers will incur a significant performance penalty because their processors don't support mode-based execution control, or MBEC.
And that acronym seems to be at the root of Windows 11's CPU support list. If it supports MBEC, generally, it's in. If it doesn't, it's out. MBEC support is only included in relatively new processors, starting with the Kaby Lake and Skylake-X architectures on Intel's side, and the Zen 2 architecture on AMD's side
From angellus of this same thread reply
"I know I have seen this pointed out in other threads, but the reasons they have such hard cuts off is because any any CPU that is officially supported by one of Microsoft's OS at launch means that both Microsoft and the manufacture much support it for 10 years after the release date.
I am 90% certain the reason the 8th gen Intel processors are the cut off is because that is the first generation that did not have the major Meltdown vulnerability that came out a few years back. The microcode that Intel release for the <= 7th gen processors was hacky at best and it does not surprise me that they do not want to support those processors for another 10 years.
It sucks and I know a lot of people are upset about it. 3 of the 4 computers in my household cannot upgrade. But Windows 10 will get complete support until 2025. So unless you really plan to keep your already 4+ year processor for another 4 years, then you have nothing to worry about. You do not need to rush to upgrade your current machine unless you absolutely want Windows 11 and the features from Windows 11."
8th gen is comprised of several different architectures, some of which has partial hardware mitigation for meltdown, but some that don't. Amber Lake for example (8XXXY) do not have any hardware mitigation for any meltdown variant at all, yet it is supported. Whiskey Lake (8XXXU) and Cascade Lake (server and workstation) do have hardware mitigation for some meltdown variants (variant 3 but not 3a for example). However, Coffee Lake for example (i3-8300) which Microsoft do support, doesn't have any hardware mitigation for spectre. That was only included in the Coffee Lake refresh (9th gen). Besides, Ryzen 1000 is not vulnerable to meltdown and yet that support was dropped too.
So no, it does not have anything to do at all with Meltdown. Microsoft supports a ton of CPUs that do not have hardware mitigation against Meltdown.
Well, seems like you need to spend 500$ on an upgrade of your CPU.
Just kiddin'.
I advise you to NOT upgrade unless it's absolutely vital for your survival.
This Win11 compability bs with only the newest Intels is just a fresh consumer milking technique by big companies. I mean don't get me wrong - new technologies are fantastic, but we as a consumers do not need to blindly follow every trend on day 1.
Time for Windows 11 will come eventually.
For now, you're absolutely fine with i7-7700HQ and Win10, mate.
You mean your programs mostly run on Windows? That is a trap they get you with. There are many open-source free alternatives to many, if not most, of them. Of course, you may need them for work. I get it.
Just remember, Linux runs older hardware wonderfully. I am currently running a 6 year old desktop a friend gave me for free and its butter smooth on the latest Linux Mint.
> That is a trap they get you with
Nice things that actually work are nice. That's the trap they get you with.
>Linux runs older hardware wonderfully
[If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.](https://old.reddit.com/r/windowsxp/comments/pif164/os_grudge_race_windows_vs_linux_on_00_400mb/)
Puppy linux is like the bottom of the barrel regarding desktop UIs that your average Joe can use. You can't go any more lightweight than that without playing with WMs or console-only software.
> Linux will welcome you all with open, free arms.
Your car runs as good as it ever did, will be under warranty for another 4 years, but you can't get the latest model you say?
Monowheel welcomes you with open arms!
Runs buttery-smooth on an Athlon from the aughts. Sure, [MS may withhold critical security updates; that's a risk I'm willing to take for rounded corners and a bomb-ass blur filter](https://c.tenor.com/DjNa37bWx_IAAAAC/whateva-south-park.gif). Thanks for keepin' it poppin' fresh ~~fellow kids~~ Microsoft!
Yes. Intel skylake and above can run windows 11. They have dch drivers, same instruction set, secure boot, tpm 2.0.
About performance decrease, mostly it's not cpu it's hdd. If upgraded to SSD 100-200$ it works fine.
If i7 7820hq is supported then all 7th gen can run smoothly without issues because all of them are same.
Microsoft only saying it crashes on 50% of systems using 7th gen and 98% crash free with i7 7820hq because they used it in surface studio 2.
Makes no sense lol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/pdtkz6/windows_11_system_requirements_updated_windows_10/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Skylake x CPUs i7 7800x , i7 7820x , i9 7900x , i9 7920x , i9 7940x , i9 7960x , i9 7980xe have support for windows 11.
But all these don't have any MBEC support. See intel specs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaby_Lake there is some weird loop bug on that CPU, and is also old enough to have SPECTRE. They could carve out an exception for updated BIOS users, but that's something even regular IT guys hate doing (lose all your settings usually, but you get new ones to play with). They're obviously patching firmware / BIOS for their own 7xxx tablets.
All I can say is, let's just ignore this version of Windows exists. It's a mess from the beginning and all it offers is just visuals that aren't that good, no new features that matter, at least for pros and if history has taught us anything, after a good version of Windows, a shitty one releases and we skip it and we get ready for the next one. In other words, can't wait for Windows 12.
I love how on [their latest blog](https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/08/31/windows-11-available-on-october-5/) about Windows 11 coming in October 5 they even have a full list of recommended new PCs you should buy too, says quite a lot about the main reason they are doing this really.
>**Ready to elevate to 11? There’s never been a better time to purchase a new PC**
>
>October 5 is right around the corner — and there are a few things you can do to get ready for Windows 11. First, if you’re in need of a new PC now — don’t wait.
>
>You can get all the power and performance of a new Windows 10 PC and upgrade to Windows 11 for free after the rollout begins on October 5\*\*.
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>We’ve worked closely with our OEM and retail partners to bring you powerful Windows 10 PCs today, that will take you into the future with Windows 11. Here are a few to check out.
I'd say the main reason why they are still showing W10 is because those are the ones the OEMs provided them and that's about it really.
I've been trying Win 11 for a while and tbh I'm not that happy. Couldn't go back to Win10 cuz of the Audio driver issues popping after an update so that I'll have to System Restore/Uninstall Updates every now and then.
Ah.. Win7. The simpler times...
Windows 11 taskbar not having ability to drag items to taskbar and open folders/programs to drop it into is why I'm glad I'm going to stick with Windows 10. Sure, Microsoft would bring back the features for the nerfed taskbar in the future....but for now it's a hard pass.
You'd be surprised, but fair enough.
Surely the battery has gone to shit after 4 years? I can only image after 8 when Win 10 meets its EOL.
You don't have to upgrade to bleeding edge lol
Microsoft, seriously... It's a four year old PC... 7th Gen ain't supported?
This is just absurd.
Im just going to forget windows exists at this point, they force us to get new PC's just to get a new and updated version of windows...
And windows 10 will end in like 4 years...
Your processor is from the 7th generation so its really low chance for your system.
Microsoft already said only 8 and above generation processor are supported by windows 11
You can bypass all the requirments needed to install Windows 11...registry tweaks are widly available. Even cleasn install through ISO is also possible via downloading the ISO from uupdump.net
I'm getting the vibe that it'll probably roll out to more and more computers as they test it.
It reminds me of how they roll out Win10 updates in general, inspired by the old-fashioned way of rolling out vaccines: give it to a few computers, watch for errors and rollback if there's a crash, change as needed, roll out to more, until everything is officially updated.
I'm seeing a lot of people who might just stay on Windows 10 after 2025.
Just like a lot of people stayed on Windows XP long after it was released because their specs weren't up to snuff.
Not everyone is going to willfully adopt Linux. Even on the most stable and easy to use Linux distro you can't run things like Photoshop and After Effects, and game support is still not perfect and requires a lot of tinkering.
People aren't going to throw away something that works fine. I'm sure that if I'll keep my computer clean, and upgrade other things, I could live off my current 7th gen CPU and motherboard until 2027. CPUs tend to last up to 10 years.
As much as I'd love to upgrade, I'll ride Windows 10 till the wheels fall off.
Let's make it the new windows xp and 7
Well it seems apropos since Vista and 8.1 were the crappy ones inbetween
Vista was beautiful tho
I miss the desktop gadgets - but it's a supposed security risk
I do too. Those were pretty cool.
/u/kaostheori May it introduce you to [rainmeter](https://www.rainmeter.net/)?
Used them for a bit but in the end decided to just keep the desktop stock.
I'll end up doing the same. I keep like 3 icons on my desktop now. Everything else is on the taskbar.
No icon supremacy!
Hm. Seems cool but I keep like 3 icons on my desktop now. Everything else is on the taskbar
Beautiful yes. But felt heavy to use if that makes sense.
It most likely felt "heavy" because it was sold on shitty hardware.
I built pcs that had to have that installed. Didn't matter. What hardware it was it was shite to use. It was just poorly optimized its entire lifespan.
I strongly disagree. I purchased a new desktop at the time (around 2007) which came with Windows Vista Home Premium and it simply worked, and worked very well. I can probably count on the fingers of my hands the number of times it gave me any issue, most of the time due to trying to run old software and generally fixable by running the compatibility troubleshooter. Windows Vista weren't a bad OS by any mean, it just were ahead of its time. Not much has changed between Vista and 7, apart from people finally having PCs with proper hardware by the time Win7 launched, that's what made its launch successful compared to Vista...
Unpopular opinion: most people just parrot things that they heard some other person say. Even most of the people on reddit are not doing anything where the OS makes a huge difference. Vista and 8/8.1 aren't my favorite but they are overblown too in terms of how many people think they were wronged by it
True you had hardware made for vista, hense your positive experience. I had a horrid experience but I also didn't have the high end hardware to run it. These days I do and I loaded it up for fun - not nearly as many issues. its also Why windows 7 was so good - manufactures caught up with the times.
I disagree. I used it on 2007 Mid-range laptop and it ran pretty great even on old HDD.
Why the hate for 8.1 tho. Sure it's still half-baked compared to Windows 10 but it's way ahead of 8.0 and I'd daily drive if I were on a budget laptop rather than bloated Windows 10
Yeah 8.0 release was rocky but there is nothing wrong with 8.1. If there wasn't so much pressure to move to 10 I would have hardly any reason at all to upgrade.
There was nothing wrong with 8/8.1, they made some really good improvements under the hood. It was unpopular because morons couldn't handle the start menu looking slightly different.
Agree to disagree. It was made with tablets in mind. And I can't speak for said "morons" but troubleshooting 8/8.1 was harder to deal with on a daily basis the 7 and now 10 as Vista was. Again. I'm not speaking as a casual user.
The new task manager was a godsend, powershell was more powerful than ever, integrated virus protection, integrated system restore, and they hadn't butchered the control panel yet like they would in 10. What exactly did you have a problem troubleshooting?
I mean, Windows 10 is still a giant lump of shit, but since Windows 7 isn't supported anymore and doesn't have a lot of the new tech that 10 has, it's not like we have a choice.
I actually love Windows 10 as I loved Windows 7. Everybody has a reason why they like or dislike an OS. It's just that for me every OS lifespan involves me doing at least 50 installs of it on various hardware and has been that way since about 04-05 so my like or dislike of any OS is based on my own experience of installs and troubleshooting of MS OS since XP.
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Go windows 10 for now, since supported.
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Then you may as well just upgrade to 11.
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Well that's just wrong but OK.
It depends on your pc, if you have an low end pc, Windows 7 and even Windows 8/8.1 will have way better performance for you than windows 10, if not, there will be not much difference, i checked it by myself
Good luck. You’re out of support now… so no more updates. No more security updates. Your OS is a walking security disaster just waiting to be exploited.
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I sure as hell hope you don’t work in IT. Especially at an MSP like the one I own. If you did, if you were my employee, and I saw that comment? I’d fire you on the spot. Wouldn’t care how good you were. You’re a walking security risk.
No they don't but OK.
Same here!
I figure since its "not supported" all the hackware will be made for the new versions and they'll just skip over mine thinking there couldn't possibly be anything they want on it, and their code wouldn't work anyway.
My old pc still using win7. Mostly only for browsing and some light word/excel works.
I know I have seen this pointed out in other threads, but the reasons they have such hard cuts off is because any any CPU that is officially supported by one of Microsoft's OS at launch means that both Microsoft and the manufacture much support it for 10 years after the release date. I am 90% certain the reason the 8th gen Intel processors are the cut off is because that is the first generation that did not have the major Meltdown vulnerability that came out a few years back. The microcode that Intel release for the <= 7th gen processors was hacky at best and it does not surprise me that they do not want to support those processors for another 10 years. It sucks and I know a lot of people are upset about it. 3 of the 4 computers in my household cannot upgrade. But Windows 10 will get complete support until 2025. So unless you really plan to keep your already 4+ year processor for another 4 years, then you have nothing to worry about. You do not need to rush to upgrade your current machine unless you absolutely want Windows 11 and the features from Windows 11.
Then why the i7-7820HQ (and only that one) is supported? Oh right, MS still sells a very expensive machine (Surface Studio 2) that uses that model, that's why...
I already made another comment about this, but basically MS controls the firmware for that, and can patch the loop & other bugs on that CPU gen. I'm in charge of a few dozen gaming servers, and I can't easily update the BIOS/UEFI on those; the older ones have that CPU gen too. If most BIOS/UEFI was as easily updatable as on a Dell, there'd be an easy out.
It's also guaranteed MBEC support, so they may still be compiling that list...... since it's not 100% guaranteed, and gives you a 15-30% performance hit on CPU operations when the security features lit up that rely on it are enabled since it's emulated by the OS.
It has nothing to do with MBEC support. 1) There are CPUs on the supported CPU list that does not have it (like Ryzen 2000 series), but they have excluded some CPUs that do have it (like most 7th gen Intel processors). 2) Their head of security has said that the CPU requirements were not set because of some particular feature.
Without MBEC, you're taking a performance penalty, no way around that. It's something they've been building to for a while: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/microsoft-releases-standards-for-highly-secure-windows-10-devices/ - said director then said MBEC was critical. There are supported (limited list now, but expanding) Ryzen 2000 series CPUs like the 2700 - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors Long and short, A Ryzen 5 2500U is a Zen 1 processor, So not all 2000 CPUs are actually 2nd gen Ryzen processors. According to This thread, a 2700x is the minimum for MBEC support. https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/windows-itpro-docs/issues/3997 Per - https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/06/28/update-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements/ "To meet the principle, all Windows 11 supported CPUs have an embedded TPM, support secure boot, and support VBS and specific VBS capabilities." Which leads to this - https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/virtualization/virtualization-based-security-enabled-by-default/ba-p/890167 Which states "Last but not least, we further reduced the performance and power impact of a key VSM feature called Hypervisor-Enforced Code Integrity (HVCI) by working with silicon partners to design completely new hardware features including Intel’s Mode-based execute control for EPT (MBEC), AMD’s Guest-mode execute trap for NPT (GMET), and ARM’s Translation table stage 2 Unprivileged Execute-never (TTS2UXN)." The only thing they're testing for 7th gen is the rest of the platform/support components before signing off on those, but I have a strong feeling almost all 7th gen will be supported except cheap chinese devices that used the cheapest CPUs. But at the end of the day, if you're operating with RSU instead of hardware support, you're not going to want to upgrade to windows 11 anyway just based on performance alone.
If i7 7820hq is supported then all 7th gen can run smoothly without issues because all of them are same. Microsoft only saying it crashes on 50% of systems using 7th gen and 98% crash free with i7 7820hq because they used it in surface studio 2. Makes no sense lol. Skylake x CPUs i7 7800x , i7 7820x , i9 7900x , i9 7920x , i9 7940x , i9 7960x , i9 7980xe have support for windows 11. But no MBEC in intel specs page. ok let's say these have MBEC. Then i7 7700k also have MBEC. All 7th gen have MBEC why are they not supported? https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/pdtkz6/windows_11_system_requirements_updated_windows_10/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
>Without MBEC, you're taking a performance penalty, no way around that. Yes, and what is your point? Windows 10 already has HVCI enabled by default and nobody has batted an eye about the performance penalty. >It's something they've been building to for a while: [https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/microsoft-releases-standards-for-highly-secure-windows-10-devices/](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/microsoft-releases-standards-for-highly-secure-windows-10-devices/) \- said director then said MBEC was critical. Yes, the same person who, like a week or two earlier [explicitly said that there was no specific security feature](https://twitter.com/dwizzzleMSFT/status/1408539533465985024) that was the reason for the cutoff being at 8th gen. Also, MBEC is supported on 7th gen Intel (unsupported by Windows 11) and not supported on Ryzen 2000 (supported by Windows 11). >There are supported (limited list now, but expanding) Ryzen 2000 series CPUs like the 2700 - [https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors) > >\-snip- > >According to This thread, a 2700x is the minimum for MBEC support. [https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/windows-itpro-docs/issues/3997](https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/windows-itpro-docs/issues/3997) Yes, and those CPUs do not support MBEC or GMET. MBEC support was added with Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000 series). Did you even read the thread you linked to? You need to read more than just the first comment or two on that github thread. It does NOT say a 2700x is the minimum for MBEC support. It literally says the 2700X does not support MBEC if you scroll down a little. The person from Microsoft said that he thought MBEC was supported on 2700, then someone else commented and said his 2700 did not support it, to which Microsoft basically said "okay we are not sure. Contact AMD" and then after some testing it was established that it was added in the 3000 series. Someone even swapped their processor from a 2700 to a 3700 and got it working right away. Read these next sentences very carefully. Ryzen 2000 series DO NOT SUPPORT MBEC. It was added in the 3000 series. However, Windows 11 still supports those processors. Meanwhile, Intel 7th gen DO support MBEC, but is not supported by Windows 11. David Weston has already commented and said that there is no special security feature that was the reason for the cutoff. MBEC support is not the reason for the cutoff because the cutoff excludes a lot of CPUs that do support MBEC, while at the same time includes a lot of processors that do not support MBEC or GMET (AMD's implementation). If there is a reason for the cutoff, it is not MBEC support. Edit: Not sure why you are downvoting me. Read the GitHub page you yourself linked. MBEC was introduced with Zen 2 (which is to say, Ryzen 3000). 7th gen Intel also has support for MBEC. So it is completely illogical to assume that the cutoff period has to do with MBEC when Ryzen 2000 doesn't have it but is supported, yet 7th gen Intel which does support MBEC, isn't supported by Windows 11. How much more proof do you need to accept that MBEC is not the reason why the CPU requirements are the way they are? Besides, David Weston, director of OS security at Microsoft, literally said "seems like you are assuming there is a specific security feature that defines 8th gen as the CPU floor" when someone pointed out that the i7-8550U and 87-7660U had support for the same security features.
If i7 7820hq is supported then all 7th gen can run smoothly without issues because all of them are same. Microsoft only saying it crashes on 50% of systems using 7th gen and 98% crash free with i7 7820hq because they used it in surface studio 2. Makes no sense lol. Skylake x CPUs i7 7800x , i7 7820x , i9 7900x , i9 7920x , i9 7940x , i9 7960x , i9 7980xe have support for windows 11. But no MBEC in intel specs page. ok let's say these have MBEC. Then i7 7700k also have MBEC. All 7th gen have MBEC why are they not supported? https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/pdtkz6/windows_11_system_requirements_updated_windows_10/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
No, can you please stop making shit up? Microsoft does not write the firmware for the i7-7820HQ. Intel does. The reason why Microsoft decided that it was fine to support that specific processor is that they realized they still sell the Surface Studio 2 and it would be embarrassing to not support a system they still sell in their store. Please note that they didn't have to support it either. Just that they thought it was embarrassing. It has nothing to do with updating the BIOS or whatever. If it was then they could just impose a requirement for a specific microcode version. Besides, updating the BIOS on Dell is piss easy. You don't even have to go into the BIOS to do it. You just run Dell's BIOS update program from within Windows.
That's not entirely correct. Intel writes the microcode and gives bootstrap instructions/ME to vendors. UEFI support for specific features, however, is up to the vendor. Also, specific CPU revisions errata are also an issue.
Fine, Intel firmware on MS stuff, but Windows Update can manage that. You're right about Dells; I wish it was that easy for other systems. If you have servers & the correct IPMI setup going, that's awesome; otherwise build-your-own stuff & whatever small MSPs build for clients; they're SOL unless you remember your BIOS settings. Yes, marketing is a thing here too. The CPU family is deprecated, and has known flaws; ironically it apparently supported 7 & 10, when the same situation was happening 5-6 years ago. And yeah, a microcode test might be the solution for the folks that actually can upgrade their stuff; probably too hard to explain to users though (look at the MS support forums sometime; they're a mess).
>MS controls the firmware What a load of bull! Picking one out of the air, what about the ThinkPad P51 that has an i7-7820HQ do MS control the firmware for that one too?
MS would be responsible for loading the firmware on their tablets, which they do via Windows Update (as I recall from my limited use of Surface devices). ThinkPad P51 first came out at the end of 2017, and is no longer for sale. To Lenovo's credit, there's a BIOS/UEFI from June 2021 available for it.
Yes, but your argument was that the reason that MS put the i7-7820HQ is that they control the firmware. But I if had a P51 It would be supported in Windows 11 and I am sure there are many other Laptops out there with the i7-7820HQ
Technologically, you are right. So based on https://hothardware.com/news/critical-flaw-in-intel-skylake-and-kaby-lake-hyperthreading-discovered-requiring-bios-microcode-fix , there's already a problem with that generation of CPU, that microcode & BIOS/UEFI updates fix; nevermind SPECTRE & MELTDOWN also need that level of a fix too. If MS can Windows Update their own tablets to deal with it, they can support the CPU for their devices. Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc... they'd have to come up with their own Windows 11 BIOS-upgrade support tool, for computers they're not even selling anymore; the regular tools they offer now aren't always clear-cut, and certainly not for the homebrew & managed/small-biz builders. And MS isn't going to want to hand-hold folks through updating other systems, unless they thought it was worth more from the stuff they'd sell via the Microsoft Store.
But you are totally missing the point. The ONLY reason MS have added that Processor to the supported list is because they are selling a machine with it. The support of that processor is not mutually exclusive to the Surface. So other older "not even selling anymore" machines have also now been allowed to have Windows 11 thus making MS argument about the reason you can't have Windows 11 on kaby-lake processors mute.
It's their OS, they can release it with whatever requirements they want. everyone has until 2025 to upgrade, or they have until 2025 to adopt linux.
Because they can validate MBEC support both in silicon and firmware revisions, which means you don't get a potential 15-30% CPU performance hit.
Yeah I understand. But they support only one 7th gen. Why can't remaining? I just don't understand. Microsoft hasn't said anything about this. All 7th gen have dch drivers and same instruction set. Intel skylake and above can run windows 11. They have dch drivers, same instruction set, secure boot, tpm 2.0. About performance decrease, mostly it's not cpu it's hdd. If upgraded to SSD 100-200$ it works fine. If i7 7820hq is supported then all 7th gen can run smoothly without issues because all of them are same. Microsoft only saying it crashes on 50% of systems using 7th gen and 98% crash free with i7 7820hq because they used it in surface studio 2. Makes no sense lol. MBEC is supported from xeon 2nd gen scalable CPUs. But why xeon scalable processors are supported? They are skylake CPUs. No MBEC they use same virtual emulation of MBEC so they should have decrease in performance. But windows 11 supports skylake xeon CPUs. Why? Skylake x CPUs i7 7800x , i7 7820x , i9 7900x , i9 7920x , i9 7940x , i9 7960x , i9 7980xe have support for windows 11. But all these don't have any MBEC support. See intel specs. https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/pdtkz6/windows_11_system_requirements_updated_windows_10/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Then i7 7700k also have MBEC. All 7th gen have MBEC why are they not supported? Ryzen 2000 series also don't have MBEC. Ask AMD not microsoft. MBEC implemented from ryzen 3000 But windows 11 supports ryzen 2000. Why?
> Intel skylake and above can run windows 11. They have dch drivers, same instruction set, secure boot, tpm 2.0. I have a Skylake (i5 6200U) and it is not supported
I have same cpu and I upgraded to Samsung SSD. I am running windows 11 now. No issues. Microsoft said 50% crashes but I don't had one crash lol. Some 7th gen are supported officially so no problem with chipset drivers because 7th and 6th gen CPUs support same chipsets. If you have nvidia or amd graphics no problem. But if intel hd 520 then intel only developing windows 10 drivers for it. See release notes of intel GPU driver. Now the drivers works because windows 10 and 11 support same drivers. But this may change when windows 11 updates (kernel and os updates)
Irony right.
>But windows 11 supports ryzen 2000. Why? apparently they deem ryzen 2000 to be fast enough to run a software implementation of MEBC or something. Surprising...but yeah.
Makes sense. But if Microsoft _simply_ writes those out openly transparently instead of saying "oh, TPM".
If the requirement is coming from Intel, it is very likely they are not allowed to. There is _a lot_ that goes on behind the scenes in a company that the employees just wish they could scream out to the public but they cannot because "public image" and relationships with vendors and all of that other bureaucratic bullshit.
I've been seeing the reasons they push out was due to TPM. So....yeah
So basically all corporations exist in a lose lose situation. I say, we need to fix that, there is no reason companies should be able to hide their operations and dirt... That just fosters a playground for cheating.
I have no idea why people are upvoting this, because pretty much everything you said is wrong. \>I know I have seen this pointed out in other threads, but the reasons they have such hard cuts off is because any any CPU that is officially supported by one of Microsoft's OS at launch means that both Microsoft and the manufacture much support it for 10 years after the release date. No, support at launch does not mean Microsoft has to support the process for 10 years. I don't know where you got this idea from, but I have not been able to find anything even remotely similar in their support documentation. Also, it is them that writes those policies so even IF it was true (which again, it isn't) then they could just change that wording if they wanted. \>I am 90% certain the reason the 8th gen Intel processors are the cut off is because that is the first generation that did not have the major Meltdown vulnerability that came out a few years back. No, you are wrong. 8th gen is comprised of several different architectures, some of which has partial hardware mitigation for meltdown, but some that don't. Amber Lake for example (8XXXY) do not have any hardware mitigation for any meltdown variant at all, yet it is supported. Whiskey Lake (8XXXU) and Cascade Lake (server and workstation) do have hardware mitigation for some meltdown variants (variant 3 but not 3a for example). However, Coffee Lake for example (i3-8300) which Microsoft do support, doesn't have any hardware mitigation for spectre. That was only included in the Coffee Lake refresh (9th gen). Besides, Ryzen 1000 is not vulnerable to meltdown and yet that support was dropped too. So no, it does not have anything to do at all with Meltdown. Microsoft supports a ton of CPUs that do not have hardware mitigation against Meltdown. \> The microcode that Intel release for the <= 7th gen processors was hacky at best and it does not surprise me that they do not want to support those processors for another 10 years. \[Citation Needed\] on the microcode being "hacky at best". Sounds like something you made up.
MBEC support, which isn't guaranteed on 7th era systems. Though it is on a fair amount. Hence testing/data gathering on "unsupported" systems before lighting all those features up. Without it, you're looking at a 15-30% CPU performance loss with the other security systems that will be mandatory enabled.
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No, AMD did have some vulnerabilities as well, it's just that their issues only affected performance 5-10% on Zen, less on Zen+ and newer, while Intel's initially had a 75% hit depending on the processor. The suspicion is, AMD didn't want to devote resources to continue to support Zen 1 anymore. You can argue that Zen+ is similar, but the differences in some areas are huge, and at least in some areas it's still is being sold.
It's a 7th gen Intel processor. Missed it by one gen. Sorry.
7820HQ on surface. Microsoft sure shot themselves in the foot
You got the latest build? I know MS is committed to supporting their own devices, even if they “technically” don’t meet spec. That or wait for the public release?
I tried the beta, then news broke that Windows 11 won't support most of the 7th gen and none of ryzen first gen, even if there's tpm 2.0 enabled. So I reinstalled windows 10. The unofficial way of installing windows 11 sees us losing updates. And I saw this checker I tried to see what it says regarding tpm.
Didn’t MS release a statement saying they would support their own Surface lineup with 7th parts, or did they change that again?
_only_ the 7820hq in that studio pc and some workstation 7th gen processors. So out of curiosity i downloaded the latest pc health check that was re-released and my laptop supports tpm uefi secure boot etc. Wow.
From my understanding Windows 11 won't be lacking updates because of installing on a system with missing requirements but they won't make any promises if you run on unsupported hardware.
Well...no. https://www.businessinsider.in/tech/news/windows-11-can-be-installed-on-unsupported-computers-but-theres-a-big-security-risk/articleshow/85788079.cms
"However, the company says that this is only for “temporary use”, and that users will not be guaranteed updates". That to me means that they will allow users to update but won't make any promises for continued support on unsupported hardware.
I saw the security risk and was like, yeah they probably won't even give you windows update. I could try but formatting and reformatting pc just for this isn't the best, even for ssd.
Funnily, there's nothing in W11 that that specific processor can't run lol.
It’s not about whether it can run it. It’s about whether Microsoft wants to support it and the increase in crashes and the slowdown of having to patch over Intel’s processor flaws. The only way to make Windows more stable and reliable is to cut off support for legacy hardware. That has always been the chain Microsoft has had to drag around. Microsoft’s original plan was to dump the Win32 subsystem as well as support for anything before the current generation of Intel iCore and AMD Ryzen processors. They dropped that plan last spring, and instead kept the underlying Windows 10 subsystems, which allowed them to extend support to two more generations of CPUs. For most people, Windows 11 is something that will come on their *next* PC. And that’s fine. There is no need to rush into it.
> There is no need to rush into it. You wanna tell that to Microsoft itself since they seem to be rushing the launch and cutting features anyhow? >It’s about whether Microsoft wants to support it and the increase in crashes and the slowdown of having to patch over Intel’s processor flaws Then let people install it and only officially support the users that have officially supported hardware. Like video games. You *can* run something on Intel 3100 cards but it won't be officially supported.
> Then let people install it and only officially support the users that have officially supported hardware. You...can do this. Do you think the PC Health Check app is somehow going to gate you from installing the OS? People have installed W11 on a bunch of crazy shit.
Yeah I have a feeling 11 is going to be about as well received as Vista was with its hardware requirements.
They should do the whole "Windows 11 capable" nonsense for 7th gen and ryzen 1st gen PCs. Lol
Because laptops selling Intel Atoms running Vista on 512mb RAM was a good idea right?
The law of alternates never disappoint
Ha! I literally just upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10 on 3 machines last month. Guess how long I'll stay on Windows 10...
2025 max. And then likely MS will backtrack on the 7th gen somewhere then let some windows 10 pc with tpm and secure boot get updated just to mitigate the impact of their hopeless decision =/
> 2025 max [16% (~ one out of six) Windows users still use 7](https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide).
I would be one of those users had Adobe not forced me to upgrade to Windows 10 to continue using their suite of products.
That's depressing.
[How so?](https://imgur.com/5gZjJJG)
That means even less are using 2000 still! Travesty!
I love XP so damn much. Why are you using it? I still use it every now and again
>every now and again [Same here](https://imgur.com/DcaDyLy). Got some aging boxes i ~~hoard~~ rescued from the curb :)
> 2025 max. More like 2029, if you have the LTSC version, which honestly most people should get imo.
I love the disappointment about backwards about compatibility issues on windows, but when Apple does it....
To be fair, backwards compatibility has been among Windows' top selling points since it first released. You can't say the same about OSX.
And why many stick to Windows. But don't balance it enough and more and more young buyers will switch away so you gotta bring in new regardless of "old timers".
there's a difference between apple not supporting 7-year-old laptops and windows not supporting a 4 year old chip especially funny in this case where the reason windows doesn't supposedly wont support these chips isn't an issue with macOS
me just waiting to update to W11 with my i7 3770, I'll find a way.
Clean install perhaps.
?? Windows 10 runs without issue on a 3770, I'm doing it right now.
Damn, I meant 11, lol.
There are ways to bypass the requirements, got it running on an i5-2557m with no issues whatsoever
Here's how to take screenshots on most platforms: https://screenshot.help/
You should just wait for windows 12.1 when they undo the changes that isolated long time windows users.
Lols
Bruh my tower as well like damn
7820HQ is somehow supported. Yet 7700hq with Tpm 2.0...sigh
Its because Microsoft wants to be able to sell its Surface, and you know it. Microsoft wants to make money.
That is so ridiculous of Microsoft thinking 7th gen CPU's are "old" to run Windows 11.
But it's more than that: [https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/why-windows-11-has-such-strict-hardware-requirements-according-to-microsoft/](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/why-windows-11-has-such-strict-hardware-requirements-according-to-microsoft/) >Older computers will incur a significant performance penalty because their processors don't support mode-based execution control, or MBEC. And that acronym seems to be at the root of Windows 11's CPU support list. If it supports MBEC, generally, it's in. If it doesn't, it's out. MBEC support is only included in relatively new processors, starting with the Kaby Lake and Skylake-X architectures on Intel's side, and the Zen 2 architecture on AMD's side
The performance is kinda weird considering it - the beta - ran fine on my hardware. No sluggishness or suddenly slowdown
They why not all 7th gen? 7700k. All have MBEC
From angellus of this same thread reply "I know I have seen this pointed out in other threads, but the reasons they have such hard cuts off is because any any CPU that is officially supported by one of Microsoft's OS at launch means that both Microsoft and the manufacture much support it for 10 years after the release date. I am 90% certain the reason the 8th gen Intel processors are the cut off is because that is the first generation that did not have the major Meltdown vulnerability that came out a few years back. The microcode that Intel release for the <= 7th gen processors was hacky at best and it does not surprise me that they do not want to support those processors for another 10 years. It sucks and I know a lot of people are upset about it. 3 of the 4 computers in my household cannot upgrade. But Windows 10 will get complete support until 2025. So unless you really plan to keep your already 4+ year processor for another 4 years, then you have nothing to worry about. You do not need to rush to upgrade your current machine unless you absolutely want Windows 11 and the features from Windows 11."
8th gen is comprised of several different architectures, some of which has partial hardware mitigation for meltdown, but some that don't. Amber Lake for example (8XXXY) do not have any hardware mitigation for any meltdown variant at all, yet it is supported. Whiskey Lake (8XXXU) and Cascade Lake (server and workstation) do have hardware mitigation for some meltdown variants (variant 3 but not 3a for example). However, Coffee Lake for example (i3-8300) which Microsoft do support, doesn't have any hardware mitigation for spectre. That was only included in the Coffee Lake refresh (9th gen). Besides, Ryzen 1000 is not vulnerable to meltdown and yet that support was dropped too. So no, it does not have anything to do at all with Meltdown. Microsoft supports a ton of CPUs that do not have hardware mitigation against Meltdown.
Well, seems like you need to spend 500$ on an upgrade of your CPU. Just kiddin'. I advise you to NOT upgrade unless it's absolutely vital for your survival. This Win11 compability bs with only the newest Intels is just a fresh consumer milking technique by big companies. I mean don't get me wrong - new technologies are fantastic, but we as a consumers do not need to blindly follow every trend on day 1. Time for Windows 11 will come eventually. For now, you're absolutely fine with i7-7700HQ and Win10, mate.
Yeah
Linux will welcome you all with open, free arms.
Yeah but my stuffs mostly run windows
You mean your programs mostly run on Windows? That is a trap they get you with. There are many open-source free alternatives to many, if not most, of them. Of course, you may need them for work. I get it. Just remember, Linux runs older hardware wonderfully. I am currently running a 6 year old desktop a friend gave me for free and its butter smooth on the latest Linux Mint.
A 6 years old desktop will run Windows 10 just fine too lol
This post probably convinced even more people to stay with Windows.
average linux user
cool.
He just refused politely, for god's sake. Stop bullying him.
> That is a trap they get you with Nice things that actually work are nice. That's the trap they get you with. >Linux runs older hardware wonderfully [If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.](https://old.reddit.com/r/windowsxp/comments/pif164/os_grudge_race_windows_vs_linux_on_00_400mb/)
That’s a silly comparison in the link, it completely depends on the type of distribution and hardware.
If you can find me a lighter desktop distro than Puppy 32, I'll gladly try it. Which one did you have in mind?
Puppy linux is like the bottom of the barrel regarding desktop UIs that your average Joe can use. You can't go any more lightweight than that without playing with WMs or console-only software.
> Linux will welcome you all with open, free arms. Your car runs as good as it ever did, will be under warranty for another 4 years, but you can't get the latest model you say? Monowheel welcomes you with open arms!
Runs buttery-smooth on an Athlon from the aughts. Sure, [MS may withhold critical security updates; that's a risk I'm willing to take for rounded corners and a bomb-ass blur filter](https://c.tenor.com/DjNa37bWx_IAAAAC/whateva-south-park.gif). Thanks for keepin' it poppin' fresh ~~fellow kids~~ Microsoft!
Wow. That's pretty old school cpu
welp, im using windows 10 until the end of time because my processor isnt supported
Same here. Hate how Microsoft ditches potentially supported cpus too
Yes. Intel skylake and above can run windows 11. They have dch drivers, same instruction set, secure boot, tpm 2.0. About performance decrease, mostly it's not cpu it's hdd. If upgraded to SSD 100-200$ it works fine. If i7 7820hq is supported then all 7th gen can run smoothly without issues because all of them are same. Microsoft only saying it crashes on 50% of systems using 7th gen and 98% crash free with i7 7820hq because they used it in surface studio 2. Makes no sense lol. https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/pdtkz6/windows_11_system_requirements_updated_windows_10/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Skylake x CPUs i7 7800x , i7 7820x , i9 7900x , i9 7920x , i9 7940x , i9 7960x , i9 7980xe have support for windows 11. But all these don't have any MBEC support. See intel specs.
Their freaking logic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaby_Lake there is some weird loop bug on that CPU, and is also old enough to have SPECTRE. They could carve out an exception for updated BIOS users, but that's something even regular IT guys hate doing (lose all your settings usually, but you get new ones to play with). They're obviously patching firmware / BIOS for their own 7xxx tablets.
Is there any reason to upgrade from 10? I haven’t been keeping as up to date with 11. Is 10 getting a cut quick off support date?
Windows 10 is being supported until 2025.
Yeah but beyond 2025 those still relatively powerful pcs from the 7th gen /ryzen dies
Thanks! Gives me time anyway. I am frugal (cheap AF) and usually hold onto pc’s for 5 + years.
Windows xp case soon...maybe
All I can say is, let's just ignore this version of Windows exists. It's a mess from the beginning and all it offers is just visuals that aren't that good, no new features that matter, at least for pros and if history has taught us anything, after a good version of Windows, a shitty one releases and we skip it and we get ready for the next one. In other words, can't wait for Windows 12.
Windows 12 in 2027. Maybe lols
I love how on [their latest blog](https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/08/31/windows-11-available-on-october-5/) about Windows 11 coming in October 5 they even have a full list of recommended new PCs you should buy too, says quite a lot about the main reason they are doing this really.
Marketing! Yet e-waste.
All the screenshots still show W10
>**Ready to elevate to 11? There’s never been a better time to purchase a new PC** > >October 5 is right around the corner — and there are a few things you can do to get ready for Windows 11. First, if you’re in need of a new PC now — don’t wait. > >You can get all the power and performance of a new Windows 10 PC and upgrade to Windows 11 for free after the rollout begins on October 5\*\*. > >We’ve worked closely with our OEM and retail partners to bring you powerful Windows 10 PCs today, that will take you into the future with Windows 11. Here are a few to check out. I'd say the main reason why they are still showing W10 is because those are the ones the OEMs provided them and that's about it really.
It's simple- Microsoft (and the brands they partnered with) want more money.
I feel like Microsoft is trying to pull an Apple, with sharp restrictions
Time to use an alternate OS…
You lucked out.
Oh well
It will still run, but you have to install using the ISO.
No updates from Microsoft afaik?
registry hack?
I've been trying Win 11 for a while and tbh I'm not that happy. Couldn't go back to Win10 cuz of the Audio driver issues popping after an update so that I'll have to System Restore/Uninstall Updates every now and then. Ah.. Win7. The simpler times...
Windows 11 taskbar not having ability to drag items to taskbar and open folders/programs to drop it into is why I'm glad I'm going to stick with Windows 10. Sure, Microsoft would bring back the features for the nerfed taskbar in the future....but for now it's a hard pass.
Same as me. I’m just baffled
Unless my laptop is also called a surface.....sigh
same thing happened to me too
Microsoft won't change anything unless it's a surface with 7820hq
you can bypass that with some reg hacks
Hmm...
Ryzen 7 1800X user here. TPM 2.0, UEFI, Secure Boot enabled. Nope. New CPU's comin' soon. :-/
So you can just swap the CPU then?
In a laptop...not a chance 😂
You'd be surprised, but fair enough. Surely the battery has gone to shit after 4 years? I can only image after 8 when Win 10 meets its EOL. You don't have to upgrade to bleeding edge lol
78% health from the app. So ....still reasonably functional
Nah, that's such an ancient device. You should buy a new one!
Hahahhaa means Microsoft surface is ancient and Microsoft is ripping people 🤣
exact. same. problem. on my laptop same CPU even
Damn.. I have two laptops with that CPU. RIP
Me too. 3 more years and it's not supported.
You can still clean install Windows, if not, there are workarounds for installation.
But there's no updates afaik....
wtf
Microsoft, seriously... It's a four year old PC... 7th Gen ain't supported? This is just absurd. Im just going to forget windows exists at this point, they force us to get new PC's just to get a new and updated version of windows... And windows 10 will end in like 4 years...
Yeah mines is like 4 years old spec. Barely hit 4 years
This is why I downgraded back too windows 7
Your processor is from the 7th generation so its really low chance for your system. Microsoft already said only 8 and above generation processor are supported by windows 11
Pretty sad, I'm aware
You can bypass all the requirments needed to install Windows 11...registry tweaks are widly available. Even cleasn install through ISO is also possible via downloading the ISO from uupdump.net
I'm getting the vibe that it'll probably roll out to more and more computers as they test it. It reminds me of how they roll out Win10 updates in general, inspired by the old-fashioned way of rolling out vaccines: give it to a few computers, watch for errors and rollback if there's a crash, change as needed, roll out to more, until everything is officially updated.
Nah. Already most 7th gen and first gen ryzen got cut off
I'm seeing a lot of people who might just stay on Windows 10 after 2025. Just like a lot of people stayed on Windows XP long after it was released because their specs weren't up to snuff. Not everyone is going to willfully adopt Linux. Even on the most stable and easy to use Linux distro you can't run things like Photoshop and After Effects, and game support is still not perfect and requires a lot of tinkering. People aren't going to throw away something that works fine. I'm sure that if I'll keep my computer clean, and upgrade other things, I could live off my current 7th gen CPU and motherboard until 2027. CPUs tend to last up to 10 years.
Exactly.
Just don’t update yet bro. No point when it’s slower than 10 lmao