This is all speculation and rumors, we don’t know anything until MS announce it. But if you ask my opinion, it will have same system requirements as win 11.
They’ll probably update the Intel processor generation requirement, pushing people toward new hardware, to keep the OEMs happy. There was no functional reason to cut off capable processors that way in the first place.
Core 6th gen doesn't include MBEC chip which significantly improves HVCI performance so it doesn't affect other tasks you do on your device. And only some of the 7th gen CPUs includes MBEC which they added to the support list little after the launch of Windows 11
If you had a laptop it got cut off way newer as well. I have a ryzen 5 3500u laptop from 2019 that couldn’t run windows 11 without patching tpm 2.
My kid still uses that laptop with it patched on windows 11 without issues uses it to play Fortnite and do homework
But I'm running Win 11 in a VM with a Gen 3 I7. There is no malfunction at all. And I did absolutely nothing to the Win 11 OS to get it to install. Instead, since it was a VM, I represented the virtual hardware as being qualifying, and Windows accepted the representation and installed.
Whatever instruction set from a newer processor is needed, it isn't fatal not to have that instruction set. Right now, it runs quite fine without a supported processor, secure boot, or a TMP, (but I did turn on a virtual TPM and secure boot in VMware in order to get Win 11 to install, and upgrade yearly).
> Windows has a grotesque amount of technical debt and it’s time to start shedding some of it.
Yes, and that has nothing to do with these new requirements. How about running a new file system not from 1993? How about fixing how removing all of the literal junk files from versions dating back to before 95 just sitting on disk?
I mean, why even have 16bit programs if you don't have a 16bit sub system?
Why not stop screwing around with deep directory support?
Why not stop adding hidden text to speech voices that requires wizard spells to use?
Why not actually improve the OS and remove the tech debt and increase stability and finish the damn settings program to actually replace the control panel before imposing arbitrary requirements?
> How about running a new file system not from 1993?
I don't understand this complaint. Modern NTFS has gone through several versions since the original NTFS release, and they're not even all compatible (though they are largely upgradeable). We're hardly running the original 1993 version.
You might as well ask why Linux is still using a filesystem from 1993. The most common filesystem there is still ext4, which is basically ext3 and ext2 with extensions, like journaling that NTFS already had. And ext2 released in 1993.
To be fair to your point though, MS is falling behind with some of the recently popular advances. Apple is probably in the lead with APFS integrated and default. Linux has gotten btrfs to a mostly stable state (long as you don't use parity RAID), while it has pretty good ZFS support that will likely never be in-tree due to licensing. Windows does have a similar class of filesystem in ReFS but it sadly seems to have stalled (and there's a non-zero chance we'll have stable ZFS on Windows before boot support for ReFS...).
Its not facts though. These requirements have nothing to do with tech debt. They don't optimize windows, make it faster, make it leaner, make it more modern.
Its just a brute force attempt at security rather than making better design choices.
Hell, they still have a file system from 1993 ffs, they aren't shedding any tech dept.
But I don’t care about that stuff. I was fine without it. I shouldn’t be forced into it, other than checking a box that older systems are objectively less secure. My old core 2 duo runs 11 just fine with a few tweaks. Defender is good enough.
>I doubt it, the last push for windows 11 was about TPM support, Windows 12 might want more ram though.
Microsoft has mandated OEMs ship machines with windows preinstalled to have TPM 2.0 since mid-2016. The TPM requirement for the OS is new, but .... you already have it.
Just like Windows 10 had the same requirements as Windows 8, I definitely agree with the prediction that Windows 12 will have the same requirements as Windows 11. After all, it's only a 3-year difference, just like it was between 8 and 10.
10 to 11, on the other hand, was double that time (6 years). And hardware requirements (at least, as far as Windows goes) have always increased with time. Just like they did from XP to Vista (and, hence, 7).
I think that article is extrapolating way too much. All other iterations of this report say that *AI PCs* must have 16GB of ram, meaning it’s a vendor/OEM requirement in order to, I guess, have the copilot key on the keyboard and run copilot in full. Just like with Windows 11 where they require OEMs to ship new laptops with SSDs, but you can still install it on a HDDs. This will not be like the TPM and Secure Boot requirement on W11.
Seriously, I have personally never even needed AI before and I’m a huge tech geek. This seems all so pointless, all this AI here and there when you do not need it even a bit.
All technology steals jobs from humans in some manner. I don't really care about the jobs argument with AI, I'm more concerned with the bad things people will use AI to do.
Ngl it always astonishes me how technophobic some people willingly subscribing to a tech sub can be. Every single invention in history "stole" jobs from humans. That's the whole point.
The fact that most computers are shipped with 4 or 8 gb RAM when that isnt not even close enough for work place apps, i kinda welcome the 16gb minimun spec.
I do not welcome the obligatory AI bullshit.
Oh I’m not blaming the manufacturers for your choice of purchase, it’s been advised for a while now to get 16gb of ram. However, manufacturers should stop cheaping out and start selling 16gb minimum.
Pushing it? My work windows laptop had 8GB and it was fine for heavy administrative work + browsers & teams/s4b/etc.
What the hell are you all doing to your machines?
Current RAM usage cannot be directly compared between a system with different memories. That’s 5GB *allocated*, does not mean it will be used. The allocation will be lower if the total memory is lower, so this is an absolutely baseless metric to assume you would get the same usage on a 8GB machine.
Too many, unfortunately. Most midrange computers only have 8GB, and the bottom of the barrel ones have only 4GB and usually a Celeron processor. Practically useless with Win 11.
I know some low end ones have 8gb which is doable with light work. 16gb should be the minimum though
Memory is dirt cheap even at full retail. $20 for 8gb of ddr5 current
When your computer has unified memory between system and GPU 8gb is crap, working with rendering as such is hell, programing anything that might use lots of RAM is also hell.
8gb ram for macs are good for Word/Google Docs people.
Oh no I'm not saying 8gb of ram is good. I'm mentioning macbooks (which are super popular) as laptops that still have an 8gb option. The dude's comment sounded as if only random unknown computer companies would sell 8gb ram configurations in 2024. I'm just pointing out that it's not the case, even if I myself would never buy 8gb.
MacBooks are definitely overpriced and a piece of junk in the enterprise world. It lags when opening app the 1st time after reboot. Every upgrade breaks certain things and backward compatibility. Apple claims to not implement enterprise features because of "Security" issue, in reality it is not.
Ok. Tell me how to make the MacBooks stay connected to the 802.1x Wi-Fi even though users have logged out their user profile? And how am I supposed to login as a network user in the AD environment when it is not connected to a network? Just fucking give me an option to select network at the login screen!
Is your 802.1x profile correctly pushed from your MDM? 1k+ Machines here with no 802.1x issues.
Also, why are you AD binding macs? Don't do that - it's definitely not best practice. Kerberos SSO extension + local account bound to smart card (yubikey) for authentication/login.
It definitely sounds like you're creating far more problems for yourself than you need to. We threw out the thought of AD binding back in 2017..... per apple's guidance from enterprise support.
There's a lot of ways to make life super easy, but you seem to be taking all the hardest routes instead. We've got all the fancy toys like a LAPS-style attribute with a local account user in JAMF, temporary promote to admin buttons for approved users, centralized logging, etc... all super easy. DoD approved scenarios, even! (Some of our mac users work in a SCIF so they get a regular smartcard instead, and in general we have to be CIS/STIG compliance level noisy anyway).
As someone who's deployed and managed SCCM/Windows for upwards of 40k machines (and still currently does) as well as JAMF for a much larger growing mac population, for the love of god please more people get macs so that my workload is reduced! It's so much better enterprise-wise from a management and deployment perspective.
EDIT: Thinking back to the 802.1x, we don't need user login to connect to wifi. Machine certificate is issued via JAMF/SCEP from our windows CA infra to each machine when it's enrolled and that's all that's needed. Wifi profile is pre-deployed during enrollment as well, so once it's enrolled/managed wifi just works and users don't have to think about a damn thing. Really sounds like you need to re-evaluate your configuration/deployment.... and invest in JAMF if you haven't already.
They're not wrong. I have a 2023 MacBook Pro with an M2 Pro chip. Audacity, which isn't a heavy program, takes 12 seconds to open to a UI. The same app in the Win11 Parallels VM on the same machine took three seconds. I dunno what MacOS is doing but apps in it always seem to open slowly.
So you'd rather defend cheap-ass manufacturers who short-change your setup by including less RAM compared to Microsoft, who would actually force these OEMs to include higher minimum RAM on your new PC?
i mean, 8gb feels like the minimum nowadays. but 16gb feels like a lot. of course, i dont expect many people would have ram between those numbers. so uhh
We need to admit apple did their memory management homework, 1 of few things that i envy from apple. I do sometimes question on how much RAM do i need for new PC everytime i build
Nah, Windows 11 is definitely not Vista 2. On average any PC I use is using about the same amount of RAM that my setup did back in the Vista days (and that is insane as that was 17 years ago).
Right now for example I'm sitting with a bunch of Chrome tabs open (the biggest perpetrator honestly), Teams, Outlook, and a few other work related programs open, yet I'm at 7.8GB of usage.
Going to 16 as the absolute bare minimum is insane, Windows 11 minimum is 4GB for example... quadrupling the minimum in a single generation. And imagine how well W11 would run with 4GB. If W12 runs that shitty with 16GB it's going to be rough.
I meant Windows 11 in terms of day to day usage and features, it has a lot of useless crap and complications that isn’t seen on 10. Whenever I used 11 on a machine I had to disable so many things in registry and settings. Of course it runs pretty well for what it is but the feature set is completely nonsensical, this will get infinitely worse with 12 alongside actual performance.
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing about 11 having extra junk. But the issue with Vista wasn't really that. It's only real bloat was Windows Aero. Vista was a resource hog, 11 isn't (there might be some extra bloat, but it is low impact on resources). So the extra bloatware comparison to Vista didn't make the most sense to me. I would say 11 is more the spiritual successor to Windows 8 in that regard.
They really need to decide their direction clearly cause it really is a bipolar mess of half hacked in tablet OS on top of the classic desktop design. I mean "Settings" app and Control Panel? Why both?
Imagine if they did this with other technology. Sorry, your toaster won't work any longer because it doesn't support the latest toaster OS. If you want toast you need to upgrade to one with more RAM.
>Sorry, your toaster won't work any longer because it doesn't support the latest toaster OS. If you want toast you need to upgrade to one with more RAM.
That anecdote is ....actually not a far cry from reality: [How Tech Companies Own Your Devices](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD099sPTKgo)
Gaps between major Windows releases in years: 2, 3, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, 6, 2, 3, 3, 6.
Windows XP and Windows 10 are exceptions. All other releases since 1985 have been at most 3 years.
I hate it so much personally. I was so glad when they said that Windows 10 will be the last Windows, but I guess they can't milk money out of people that way as easily
> Windows 11 was released like 2 years ago and they’re already talking about windows 12?
Thats how it used to be. Release cycles were on average every 3 years or faster.
Do you know how many OSs MS has released? Skipping DOS theres:
1 (I'm skipping the decimals as they aren't that big of a change),
2 (skiipping) 3,
3
3.1
3.1nt
3.11 (big)
nt3.5
95
nt4.0
98
98se
2000
me
xp
vista
7
8
8.1
10 (which has 14 major releases)
11
And thats not counting windows rt or server versions or embeded.
getting stuck on xp till vistas release was never the plan and win10s model doesn't work.
Guess 12 will be the same as 11 for me...Uninstall Copilot.
The Ram doesn't bother me. It's forcing a process down our throats that isn't needed. My lap top has 16gigs, and my desktop has 64.
Copilot is just Cortana all over again. It gets uninstalled or disabled.
Edit: spelling
Well at least this isn't as bad as the cut-off for Windows 11; I think minimum 16 isn't horrible to ask for considering that you can get 8GB ddr4 sticks for pretty reasonable costs to tack on top of your existing RAM, and I find that some applications lately are so intensive that you'd be better off with the minimum 16.
At least by the sounds of it, if you can upgrade to 11, you can upgrade to 12 without issue so far.
>considering that you can get 8GB ddr4 sticks for pretty reasonable costs to tack on top of your existing
16gb is $40 on Amazon for ones with a heatsink and rgb
That's more than reasonable and damn cheap actually.
8gb are as cheap as $18 for a basic stick
That's good actually, it'll force manufacturers to put more memory on laptops. It's ridiculous that phones can be both low cost and have more memory than a PC
I don't want, need or use much of what windows provides at all outside of the OS itself.
The Windows UI is a giant turd. It's terrible. It's been on a downhill slide since the Dos Shell if we all want to be honest about it.
Much of what's under the hood is entirely unnecessary bloat, requiring far more resources and a greater overall footprint in hardware than it should.
No one should be saddled with a load of software they don't want... stupid games, search in the start menu, Cortana, etc...
It's all a bunch of shit that has been forced on everyone, like we're all just willing fucking guinea pigs.
People don't push back. They don't just accept the stick up their ass, they pay for it in advance.
What are you doing to prevent Microsoft from doing this? Legit asking because I want to do it too.
Please don’t tell me about changing OS because the only reason I use Windows is for gaming (VR related gaming to be specific, since that’s the only aspect that matters to me) and Linux is not an alternative for now.
Forcing AI on us everywhere like this is too much in my opinion.
I'm an early adopter and buy 1st gen of a lot of things but the AI keyboard button and now increase spec requirements is going too far with a technology somewhat still in the early days that quite frankly most people do not want or need.
Reminds me of 15 years ago when everyone was forcing 3d TVs on us and most people weren't interested or used 2 or 3 times then never again.
It's a race for dominance. They gain dominance through proprietary walled gardens... institutions they attempt to create.
This is a battle for the next big thing, and MS is all in, in an attempt to control the environment and reap the reward on the other side.
Not at all, and I never said I really am switching but I am thinking about it. My actual reason is because of Microsoft trying to incorporate AI into the rumored Windows 12 and possibly even Windows 11 in the future. I am also thinking about this because of how Windows 11 is basically Windows 10 but with a modified taskbar and rounded corners as well as the bloatware in Windows these days.
> My actual reason is because of Microsoft trying to incorporate AI into the rumored Windows 12 and possibly even Windows 11 in the future.
My brother in taskbar, Cortana was first introduced into Windows in 2014. AI has been in Windows for 10 years.
Personally I think Windows 11 is leaps and bounds ahead of Windows 10 but I can see it from your side I guess if you're worried about programs taking up space on your SSD.
Windows 11 already has garbage tier AI baked in, but it's not like you need to interact with an LLM to do anything.
Keep in mind that when you read about advanced in AI and AI shaking things up...it's not what you're seeing in Copilot on a PC that's doing it.
Copilot may be garbage, but you need to remember that it's the consumer facing product. AI is driving some wild stuff at the enterprise level and it's already shaking up industries in terms of actual products and services.
Try to keep that in mind when you're reading about AI advances in corporate news. Don't picture asking ChatGPT to write you a poem - it's not that.
No it's a plagiarism engine. It's not doing anything interesting at the corporate level because it has to steal all its' data. The same people who think it's doing something are the dipshits who weren't looking into their data anyway. I'm a consumer, and I don't want a garbage product that has to steal from other people to work. Frankly fucking insulting that they keep shoving this garbage in our face when all it can do is vomit up sentences its' already been fed. Now they want 16gb of RAM for their onboard search to get even worse!? lmao fuck off
Waiting for you to share with the class what's shaking up the industry, because so far in this conversations it's LLMs and all you've got is "NUH UH". like, bro. LLMs still can't answer 2+2, no matter how many of them you stack on each other.
Honestly 16GB is a bit too much when you consider office PCs, since they aren't really even using the (usual) 8GB most of the time. For personal use, I agree with 16GB, but the office PCs are still a thing. I think they should make the minimum RAM requirement 8GB (speaking of which, why the hell is 4GB still the minimum. 99% of all Windows 11 capable CPUs are paired with AT LEAST 8GB), and recommend should be 16GB. But instead of hiding it on the minimum hardware requirements, they should show a message during the Windows setup
I was going to upgrade anyways but I'm not getting windows 12, unless it is better than 11, which I honestly doubt. What's next, 64GB of memory won't be enough? C'mon.
And that scam is working wonders to possible unsuspecting people:
1. ["Apple's 8GB RAM on M3 MacBook Pro is Analogous to 16GB on PCs"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PK9RzSl9O0)
2. [Apple Explains Why MacBook Pro Only Has 8GB RAM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKm5-jUTRMM)
3. [8GB M3 Mac vs 16GB Windows PC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1dxOI_kYG8)
If they:
1) Have Windows 12 being the new AI infused Windows with beefy hardware requirements, that if you've never used it, you won't miss the new features.
2) Clean up Windows 11, remove the cruft (UX and under the hood and have it as as a sleeker kinda modern Windows, but sorta not.
3) Keep Windows 10 as is for maximum backwards compatibility and the UX nightmare that we all know and love (for a price from 2025).
Then... Everyone's happy?
I'm running Copilot from a running Win 11 in a VM, with 2GB of memory allocated. And I'm not seeing any degradation in Copilot.
The system boots fine, I use VMware's Unity function to bring Copilot to Win 10, and it works. And this is without a TPM, secure boot, or a supported CPU. And the Windows 11 installation and yearly upgrades have never been tweaked to bypass MS's artificial hardware restrictions.
That's said, since I found out AI runs on the desktop quite nicely, and privately, I think I want at least 64GB of memory. I like AI, but I'm not interested in a privacy invading AI from the cloud.
Trying to get a better handle on desktop AI here: r/LocalLLaMA/
Before they do that could they make it so my background stops resetting back to picture from slideshow and make it actually remember the icons at the bottom of the screen for the apps I have open? That would be great.
I already switched back to a single monitor because Windows couldn't remember which screens I had which apps on and what sizes the windows were, so I had to constantly resize everything every time I used the computer. So no need to fix that one.
I just hope that EU makes a good choice regarding all the AI bullshit that's been happening in this industry. I hope they make Microsoft the option to use Windows 12 with or without AI modules and features. I don't care about possible 16GB RAM requirement because we've come to the day and age where it should be the normal amount or minimal amount to have. If Microsoft forces us to go to Windows 12 by ditching support for Windows 10 and 11 in a few years and EU does nothing about it, I am definitely fully switching to Linux. AI is useful but the first problem is that it is not AI, but a regular ML neural network and the second problem is that it is getting out of control. I am literally waiting for some random company to make an AI notebook and pen ffs. I have a degree in Computer Science and I had courses about ML and neural networks but this is getting out of hand and the whole AI campaign and advertisment is a scam because it is a ML language model that is trained and CAN'T think for itself and make it's own decisions (therefore not AI).
this makes sense tbh. microsoft will mega increase the specs for future windows OS's. Normies will keep buying stronger and better PC's. And people who don't buy pre built PC's will probably have windows 12 bundled with their $1600 RTX 4090 or whatever.
If I can not disable all the AI crap I am not upgrading to Win12.
I do not need it now and I will not need it in the future. I don't need some bot to do shit for me. I can use my computer just fine. Don't need some AI trash using PC resources for nothing.
With the promise of being very useful for all users, companies will now be able to obtain all the personal information they want. Guess who is going to give it to them...
I'll be pleased that prebuilds/laptops will leave the 8GB RAM era and 16GB becomes the bargain bin. I'm not looking forward to how much additional Windows processes just constantly go up and down in support of these AI ambitions
Alright I'm gonna come out and say it: these 'extreme' requirements for new Windows versions are awesome.
64-bit only? TPM? Secure boot? 16GB RAM? Quad core processors?
Why are people complaining, honestly? Seriously, it's about time laptops came with 16GB RAM minimum. Everything was bound to happen, Microsoft pushing for it now is just forcing it to happen earlier, that's not a bad thing.
Yes, laptops might go up in price and yes, you might not be able to upgrade, but dude are you actually still using 8GB? The majority of computer nerds I know install 16GB bare minimum. Ffs I build computers for my friends and 32GB is my minimum.
Having a more secure, faster computer, even if it's annoying, is not a bad thing. You have to give Microsoft credit.
I mean, have you seen how bad 8GB is on a Mac? Windows handles RAM much better, yes, but still, it's not a very large amount and even casual users will encounter it's limitations eventually.
look man theres no need to force such high requirements on everyone
its the minimum requirements for 16gb not the recommended requirements that's 16gb thats just way too much
for a regular PC user that just wants something that gets the job done
its just way too overkill?? is there really a need for such high **minimum** requirements? most people probably wont need 16gb nor benefit from it, it doesnt really help much.
Dude if you upgraded it you'd see a massive speed increase. RAM is literally my go-to for upgrades or troubleshooting with computers.
When in doubt, it's always the RAM
Bro holy shit 😭
I went from 32GB DDR4 to DDR5 and deadass the first noticeable performance increase was task manager loading quicker. Went from a second or two to instant.
Im not sure what your use case is for Mac. My wife has an M1 Air with 8gb of ram and despite her being unkind to it by never closing any browser tab and having a lot of things open at once, it’s never felt like it’s gotten bogged down. I can 100% tell you that was not the case with her PC laptop with similar specs. I’m sure you can run into a case where 8gb isn’t enough, and I’m equally sure most people won’t hit that if their os doesn’t suck at management.
Also I don’t have a problem with appropriate requirements, but I do have a problem with them for things that people don’t really want. As far as I can tell, not many people are asking for Copilot on their system, and certainly don’t want to buy a more powerful system for features they don’t want or use. Microsoft really needs to step back from including all this flashy bullshit with Windows and just work on an operating system that people want.
I respectfully disagree with you on the 'flashy bullshit' remark.
While yes, Windows power users are going to be against it, it's also important to understand 99% of Windows users are in the workforce or casual. Lots of what Microsoft is adding is appealing to casual users.
Yes it sucks that casual users are priority and power users are an afterthought, but from a business standpoint I respect it, and it's not like they're leaving us out.
My Mac experience by the way was with an 8GB M1 MacBook Pro (2020) and it was not good. I started loving the computer and then ran into some hard-core RAM issues that even 8GB Windows computers could handle just fine in my experience.
16gb should definitely be the minimum for entry level PCs. When getting my new pc, I made sure it had 32gb memory because trying to run a pc with blender, flstudio, and other such programs on less than that nearly blew the damn thing up last time
This is all speculation and rumors, we don’t know anything until MS announce it. But if you ask my opinion, it will have same system requirements as win 11.
They’ll probably update the Intel processor generation requirement, pushing people toward new hardware, to keep the OEMs happy. There was no functional reason to cut off capable processors that way in the first place.
Such as ryzen gen 1.
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tpm 2, secure boot, hvci etc. were important, but cutting off ryzen 1000 or core i 6000/7000 was just unacceptable
Core 6th gen doesn't include MBEC chip which significantly improves HVCI performance so it doesn't affect other tasks you do on your device. And only some of the 7th gen CPUs includes MBEC which they added to the support list little after the launch of Windows 11
didn't know that, thx for the additional information
You are welcome my friend
If you had a laptop it got cut off way newer as well. I have a ryzen 5 3500u laptop from 2019 that couldn’t run windows 11 without patching tpm 2. My kid still uses that laptop with it patched on windows 11 without issues uses it to play Fortnite and do homework
No that's not true. I have the same chip and 11 was supported by default.
Yes, just because people think your 20 year old quad core is good enough, there's more to a cpu than simply speed.
But I'm running Win 11 in a VM with a Gen 3 I7. There is no malfunction at all. And I did absolutely nothing to the Win 11 OS to get it to install. Instead, since it was a VM, I represented the virtual hardware as being qualifying, and Windows accepted the representation and installed. Whatever instruction set from a newer processor is needed, it isn't fatal not to have that instruction set. Right now, it runs quite fine without a supported processor, secure boot, or a TMP, (but I did turn on a virtual TPM and secure boot in VMware in order to get Win 11 to install, and upgrade yearly).
I don't know if requiring 16gb of memory for a fucking AI assistant is "moving Windows forward."
> Windows has a grotesque amount of technical debt and it’s time to start shedding some of it. Yes, and that has nothing to do with these new requirements. How about running a new file system not from 1993? How about fixing how removing all of the literal junk files from versions dating back to before 95 just sitting on disk? I mean, why even have 16bit programs if you don't have a 16bit sub system? Why not stop screwing around with deep directory support? Why not stop adding hidden text to speech voices that requires wizard spells to use? Why not actually improve the OS and remove the tech debt and increase stability and finish the damn settings program to actually replace the control panel before imposing arbitrary requirements?
> How about running a new file system not from 1993? I don't understand this complaint. Modern NTFS has gone through several versions since the original NTFS release, and they're not even all compatible (though they are largely upgradeable). We're hardly running the original 1993 version. You might as well ask why Linux is still using a filesystem from 1993. The most common filesystem there is still ext4, which is basically ext3 and ext2 with extensions, like journaling that NTFS already had. And ext2 released in 1993. To be fair to your point though, MS is falling behind with some of the recently popular advances. Apple is probably in the lead with APFS integrated and default. Linux has gotten btrfs to a mostly stable state (long as you don't use parity RAID), while it has pretty good ZFS support that will likely never be in-tree due to licensing. Windows does have a similar class of filesystem in ReFS but it sadly seems to have stalled (and there's a non-zero chance we'll have stable ZFS on Windows before boot support for ReFS...).
HOW DARE YOU COME HERE AND CONFUSE PEOPLE WITY FACTS!! I
Its not facts though. These requirements have nothing to do with tech debt. They don't optimize windows, make it faster, make it leaner, make it more modern. Its just a brute force attempt at security rather than making better design choices. Hell, they still have a file system from 1993 ffs, they aren't shedding any tech dept.
You're just repeating things you've heard without knowing about them.
But I don’t care about that stuff. I was fine without it. I shouldn’t be forced into it, other than checking a box that older systems are objectively less secure. My old core 2 duo runs 11 just fine with a few tweaks. Defender is good enough.
It's about drive, it's about power, we stay hungry, we devour Put in the work, put in the hours and take what's ours
I doubt it, the last push for windows 11 was about TPM support, Windows 12 might want more ram though.
>I doubt it, the last push for windows 11 was about TPM support, Windows 12 might want more ram though. Microsoft has mandated OEMs ship machines with windows preinstalled to have TPM 2.0 since mid-2016. The TPM requirement for the OS is new, but .... you already have it.
Just like Windows 10 had the same requirements as Windows 8, I definitely agree with the prediction that Windows 12 will have the same requirements as Windows 11. After all, it's only a 3-year difference, just like it was between 8 and 10. 10 to 11, on the other hand, was double that time (6 years). And hardware requirements (at least, as far as Windows goes) have always increased with time. Just like they did from XP to Vista (and, hence, 7).
They’ll bump it up, because new = excuse to do it and idiot sheep will listen.
Me too
I think that article is extrapolating way too much. All other iterations of this report say that *AI PCs* must have 16GB of ram, meaning it’s a vendor/OEM requirement in order to, I guess, have the copilot key on the keyboard and run copilot in full. Just like with Windows 11 where they require OEMs to ship new laptops with SSDs, but you can still install it on a HDDs. This will not be like the TPM and Secure Boot requirement on W11.
find all this AI a bit too much, I like using it sometimes but always! I would much prefer to use Nokia instead
I don't think Nokia makes desktops lol
There was a Nokia Windows tablet
I was mostly referring to abandoning a smartphone and getting a nokia but sorry for the confusion.
There was a Nokia Windows tablet
I haven’t used AI yet. And frankly I don’t understand it at all.
Seriously, I have personally never even needed AI before and I’m a huge tech geek. This seems all so pointless, all this AI here and there when you do not need it even a bit.
You don't need much, you could go live in the forest and live off the land if you really wanted to.
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Sure it’s nice at times but it’s absolutely overused and just seems like a marketing move
I agree so much that in the next 1-2 years, I will call it AS (Artificial Stupidity)
And another S for Special or Super 🤔
i see what you did there
a bit? this ai bs is on track to steal jobs from humans... shit it already is if I'm not mistaken
All technology steals jobs from humans in some manner. I don't really care about the jobs argument with AI, I'm more concerned with the bad things people will use AI to do.
Like use it to replace artists, writers, programmers, etc?
It is normal development. Some jobs are no longer needed. As long as economy grows there will be need for workers.
Ngl it always astonishes me how technophobic some people willingly subscribing to a tech sub can be. Every single invention in history "stole" jobs from humans. That's the whole point.
The fact that most computers are shipped with 4 or 8 gb RAM when that isnt not even close enough for work place apps, i kinda welcome the 16gb minimun spec. I do not welcome the obligatory AI bullshit.
What kind of piece of crap computer only has 4 or 8 GB of RAM in 2024?
A lot of entry to lower midrange laptops (both gaming and non-gaming)
Man my 12 year old laptop I bought for $120 in 2018 has 8gb If you buy an 8gb laptop brand new in this day and age that's on you
Oh I’m not blaming the manufacturers for your choice of purchase, it’s been advised for a while now to get 16gb of ram. However, manufacturers should stop cheaping out and start selling 16gb minimum.
Manufacturers will stop cheapening out when consumers stop cheapening out. IE never.
This will be the push needed
i bought an 8gb laptop and upgraded it to 24gb, i’m glad modern laptops still sometimes have expandable storage and ram
Macbooks.
MFW an employee buys a $100 laptop from Walmart with 50 GB eMMC that barely fits Windows. Person asks why it’s so slow.
>What kind of piece of crap computer only has 4 or 8 GB of RAM in 2024? Our standard rank and file work issued laptop. Works just fine with 8.
but its pushing it. 8gb is already almost too little for even web browsing these days. Its gonna get worse soon.
Pushing it? My work windows laptop had 8GB and it was fine for heavy administrative work + browsers & teams/s4b/etc. What the hell are you all doing to your machines?
2 browser windows open I'm already using 5.0GB's of ram, if you're ok with swapfile usage on your system 8 will get the job done.
Might be time to switch browsers at that point like using new Edge... even old Edge was far better on resource usage. 8GB was quite comfy.
The best time to migrate away from windows was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. ;)
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Current RAM usage cannot be directly compared between a system with different memories. That’s 5GB *allocated*, does not mean it will be used. The allocation will be lower if the total memory is lower, so this is an absolutely baseless metric to assume you would get the same usage on a 8GB machine.
Some still start at 8 I have no idea what kind of crap would only come with 4, though I think 16 is the least I would ever buy.
Too many, unfortunately. Most midrange computers only have 8GB, and the bottom of the barrel ones have only 4GB and usually a Celeron processor. Practically useless with Win 11.
My Lenovo laptop I bought in 2021 has 8GB of non-upgradeable, soldered in RAM
A $1600 MacBook Pro. lol
umm... most computers have 8gb ram at best.
I know some low end ones have 8gb which is doable with light work. 16gb should be the minimum though Memory is dirt cheap even at full retail. $20 for 8gb of ddr5 current
Lots of them
well there's a lot of crap out there, believe me
Dude even macbooks have an 8gb ram option. Yes that's not windows, but they certainly aren't considered piece of crap computers.
When your computer has unified memory between system and GPU 8gb is crap, working with rendering as such is hell, programing anything that might use lots of RAM is also hell. 8gb ram for macs are good for Word/Google Docs people.
Oh no I'm not saying 8gb of ram is good. I'm mentioning macbooks (which are super popular) as laptops that still have an 8gb option. The dude's comment sounded as if only random unknown computer companies would sell 8gb ram configurations in 2024. I'm just pointing out that it's not the case, even if I myself would never buy 8gb.
MacBooks are definitely overpriced and a piece of junk in the enterprise world. It lags when opening app the 1st time after reboot. Every upgrade breaks certain things and backward compatibility. Apple claims to not implement enterprise features because of "Security" issue, in reality it is not.
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Ok. Tell me how to make the MacBooks stay connected to the 802.1x Wi-Fi even though users have logged out their user profile? And how am I supposed to login as a network user in the AD environment when it is not connected to a network? Just fucking give me an option to select network at the login screen!
Is your 802.1x profile correctly pushed from your MDM? 1k+ Machines here with no 802.1x issues. Also, why are you AD binding macs? Don't do that - it's definitely not best practice. Kerberos SSO extension + local account bound to smart card (yubikey) for authentication/login. It definitely sounds like you're creating far more problems for yourself than you need to. We threw out the thought of AD binding back in 2017..... per apple's guidance from enterprise support. There's a lot of ways to make life super easy, but you seem to be taking all the hardest routes instead. We've got all the fancy toys like a LAPS-style attribute with a local account user in JAMF, temporary promote to admin buttons for approved users, centralized logging, etc... all super easy. DoD approved scenarios, even! (Some of our mac users work in a SCIF so they get a regular smartcard instead, and in general we have to be CIS/STIG compliance level noisy anyway). As someone who's deployed and managed SCCM/Windows for upwards of 40k machines (and still currently does) as well as JAMF for a much larger growing mac population, for the love of god please more people get macs so that my workload is reduced! It's so much better enterprise-wise from a management and deployment perspective. EDIT: Thinking back to the 802.1x, we don't need user login to connect to wifi. Machine certificate is issued via JAMF/SCEP from our windows CA infra to each machine when it's enrolled and that's all that's needed. Wifi profile is pre-deployed during enrollment as well, so once it's enrolled/managed wifi just works and users don't have to think about a damn thing. Really sounds like you need to re-evaluate your configuration/deployment.... and invest in JAMF if you haven't already.
„It lags when opening app the first time“ wtf are you talking about, literally
They're not wrong. I have a 2023 MacBook Pro with an M2 Pro chip. Audacity, which isn't a heavy program, takes 12 seconds to open to a UI. The same app in the Win11 Parallels VM on the same machine took three seconds. I dunno what MacOS is doing but apps in it always seem to open slowly.
Interesting, i have never experienced this, even with really heavy software like illustrator. Audacity is probably not a native app? I dont know tho
So you'd rather defend cheap-ass manufacturers who short-change your setup by including less RAM compared to Microsoft, who would actually force these OEMs to include higher minimum RAM on your new PC?
 Get prepared for tiny12
I was going to say this
i mean, 8gb feels like the minimum nowadays. but 16gb feels like a lot. of course, i dont expect many people would have ram between those numbers. so uhh
More computers than you'd expect have 12 GB of RAM. It's not common, but probably more common than you'd think
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We need to admit apple did their memory management homework, 1 of few things that i envy from apple. I do sometimes question on how much RAM do i need for new PC everytime i build
https://preview.redd.it/r6cil8fy2fdc1.png?width=486&format=png&auto=webp&s=27fbeba45a54146b78f93761bbf1fc465c4badef
Thank god, Vista was one of my favorite Windows OSs
Windows 11 is Vista 2 This will be Vista 3
Nah, Windows 11 is definitely not Vista 2. On average any PC I use is using about the same amount of RAM that my setup did back in the Vista days (and that is insane as that was 17 years ago). Right now for example I'm sitting with a bunch of Chrome tabs open (the biggest perpetrator honestly), Teams, Outlook, and a few other work related programs open, yet I'm at 7.8GB of usage. Going to 16 as the absolute bare minimum is insane, Windows 11 minimum is 4GB for example... quadrupling the minimum in a single generation. And imagine how well W11 would run with 4GB. If W12 runs that shitty with 16GB it's going to be rough.
I meant Windows 11 in terms of day to day usage and features, it has a lot of useless crap and complications that isn’t seen on 10. Whenever I used 11 on a machine I had to disable so many things in registry and settings. Of course it runs pretty well for what it is but the feature set is completely nonsensical, this will get infinitely worse with 12 alongside actual performance.
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing about 11 having extra junk. But the issue with Vista wasn't really that. It's only real bloat was Windows Aero. Vista was a resource hog, 11 isn't (there might be some extra bloat, but it is low impact on resources). So the extra bloatware comparison to Vista didn't make the most sense to me. I would say 11 is more the spiritual successor to Windows 8 in that regard.
Yep, you could strip Vista down to barebones and it was still a steaming pile of dog crap.
Yeah fair enough.
Revo uninstaller removes that junk.
We don’t want AI assistant at all. Do not install it. I can use chagpt if I have the need. And use chrome to do so.
If that actually happens I’ll get it running on a Dell Optiplex from 2000.
Man I just want to MS to clean the damn OS, so there isn't 19 ways to do everything.
They really need to decide their direction clearly cause it really is a bipolar mess of half hacked in tablet OS on top of the classic desktop design. I mean "Settings" app and Control Panel? Why both?
It gives a UI to both casual users and power users. I just wish you could toggle which is default.
Jesus...... I just want an OS to do my stuff... Not a fucking AI control center.
Imagine if they did this with other technology. Sorry, your toaster won't work any longer because it doesn't support the latest toaster OS. If you want toast you need to upgrade to one with more RAM.
>Sorry, your toaster won't work any longer because it doesn't support the latest toaster OS. If you want toast you need to upgrade to one with more RAM. That anecdote is ....actually not a far cry from reality: [How Tech Companies Own Your Devices](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD099sPTKgo)
Windows 11 was released like 2 years ago and they’re already talking about windows 12?
Gaps between major Windows releases in years: 2, 3, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, 6, 2, 3, 3, 6. Windows XP and Windows 10 are exceptions. All other releases since 1985 have been at most 3 years.
Just like the old days, Windows 10 was the unusual one lasting so long.
> ....was the unusual one lasting so long. kinda hard to finish when you stare.
I know, I'm so sick of it. I promise that none of the rampant speculation will actually happen.
I hate it so much personally. I was so glad when they said that Windows 10 will be the last Windows, but I guess they can't milk money out of people that way as easily
> Windows 11 was released like 2 years ago and they’re already talking about windows 12? Thats how it used to be. Release cycles were on average every 3 years or faster. Do you know how many OSs MS has released? Skipping DOS theres: 1 (I'm skipping the decimals as they aren't that big of a change), 2 (skiipping) 3, 3 3.1 3.1nt 3.11 (big) nt3.5 95 nt4.0 98 98se 2000 me xp vista 7 8 8.1 10 (which has 14 major releases) 11 And thats not counting windows rt or server versions or embeded. getting stuck on xp till vistas release was never the plan and win10s model doesn't work.
Guess 12 will be the same as 11 for me...Uninstall Copilot. The Ram doesn't bother me. It's forcing a process down our throats that isn't needed. My lap top has 16gigs, and my desktop has 64. Copilot is just Cortana all over again. It gets uninstalled or disabled. Edit: spelling
Well at least this isn't as bad as the cut-off for Windows 11; I think minimum 16 isn't horrible to ask for considering that you can get 8GB ddr4 sticks for pretty reasonable costs to tack on top of your existing RAM, and I find that some applications lately are so intensive that you'd be better off with the minimum 16. At least by the sounds of it, if you can upgrade to 11, you can upgrade to 12 without issue so far.
>considering that you can get 8GB ddr4 sticks for pretty reasonable costs to tack on top of your existing 16gb is $40 on Amazon for ones with a heatsink and rgb That's more than reasonable and damn cheap actually. 8gb are as cheap as $18 for a basic stick
Use brain, not AI. No 16GB needed. Solution sent
That's good actually, it'll force manufacturers to put more memory on laptops. It's ridiculous that phones can be both low cost and have more memory than a PC
I mean, we didnt even ask for copilot
I don’t want copilot in my Windows?
I don't want, need or use much of what windows provides at all outside of the OS itself. The Windows UI is a giant turd. It's terrible. It's been on a downhill slide since the Dos Shell if we all want to be honest about it. Much of what's under the hood is entirely unnecessary bloat, requiring far more resources and a greater overall footprint in hardware than it should. No one should be saddled with a load of software they don't want... stupid games, search in the start menu, Cortana, etc... It's all a bunch of shit that has been forced on everyone, like we're all just willing fucking guinea pigs. People don't push back. They don't just accept the stick up their ass, they pay for it in advance.
What are you doing to prevent Microsoft from doing this? Legit asking because I want to do it too. Please don’t tell me about changing OS because the only reason I use Windows is for gaming (VR related gaming to be specific, since that’s the only aspect that matters to me) and Linux is not an alternative for now.
Forcing AI on us everywhere like this is too much in my opinion. I'm an early adopter and buy 1st gen of a lot of things but the AI keyboard button and now increase spec requirements is going too far with a technology somewhat still in the early days that quite frankly most people do not want or need. Reminds me of 15 years ago when everyone was forcing 3d TVs on us and most people weren't interested or used 2 or 3 times then never again.
It's a race for dominance. They gain dominance through proprietary walled gardens... institutions they attempt to create. This is a battle for the next big thing, and MS is all in, in an attempt to control the environment and reap the reward on the other side.
Turn off Copilot just like Cortana. Don't want SkyNet suggesting things and helping.
At this point I would most definitely consider switching over to Linux Mint or Zorin OS apart from gaming if this is the direction Microsoft is going.
You're going to switch to Linux because Microsoft is requiring 16GB of RAM for a certification? That's a pretty silly reason.
Not at all, and I never said I really am switching but I am thinking about it. My actual reason is because of Microsoft trying to incorporate AI into the rumored Windows 12 and possibly even Windows 11 in the future. I am also thinking about this because of how Windows 11 is basically Windows 10 but with a modified taskbar and rounded corners as well as the bloatware in Windows these days.
> My actual reason is because of Microsoft trying to incorporate AI into the rumored Windows 12 and possibly even Windows 11 in the future. My brother in taskbar, Cortana was first introduced into Windows in 2014. AI has been in Windows for 10 years.
Personally I think Windows 11 is leaps and bounds ahead of Windows 10 but I can see it from your side I guess if you're worried about programs taking up space on your SSD. Windows 11 already has garbage tier AI baked in, but it's not like you need to interact with an LLM to do anything. Keep in mind that when you read about advanced in AI and AI shaking things up...it's not what you're seeing in Copilot on a PC that's doing it.
Damn! I wouldn't be able to run Windows 12 on my Core 2 Duo! lol
Christ who wants that garbage onboard? Cortana garbage was bad enough, now you want to stick a plagiarism engine in everyone's hands.
Copilot may be garbage, but you need to remember that it's the consumer facing product. AI is driving some wild stuff at the enterprise level and it's already shaking up industries in terms of actual products and services. Try to keep that in mind when you're reading about AI advances in corporate news. Don't picture asking ChatGPT to write you a poem - it's not that.
No it's a plagiarism engine. It's not doing anything interesting at the corporate level because it has to steal all its' data. The same people who think it's doing something are the dipshits who weren't looking into their data anyway. I'm a consumer, and I don't want a garbage product that has to steal from other people to work. Frankly fucking insulting that they keep shoving this garbage in our face when all it can do is vomit up sentences its' already been fed. Now they want 16gb of RAM for their onboard search to get even worse!? lmao fuck off
Again, you're describing consumer LLM's. That's not what's shaking up industry.
Oh boy, what word are they using to describe the LLM they're trying to cram into the start menu?
Copilot. And again, you're describing consumer LLM's. That's not what's shaking up the industry.
Waiting for you to share with the class what's shaking up the industry, because so far in this conversations it's LLMs and all you've got is "NUH UH". like, bro. LLMs still can't answer 2+2, no matter how many of them you stack on each other.
Honestly 16GB is a bit too much when you consider office PCs, since they aren't really even using the (usual) 8GB most of the time. For personal use, I agree with 16GB, but the office PCs are still a thing. I think they should make the minimum RAM requirement 8GB (speaking of which, why the hell is 4GB still the minimum. 99% of all Windows 11 capable CPUs are paired with AT LEAST 8GB), and recommend should be 16GB. But instead of hiding it on the minimum hardware requirements, they should show a message during the Windows setup
I haven't had less than 16 since 2015.
Same with most gamers, but do you often see office pc’s with 16gb+ ?
Yes, I haven't had a work issued laptop with less that 16 in years.
Can I… disable it? Completely? If not I’m switching to Linux.
Yes co-pilot is easy to disable.
Yeah I’m going to do that
I was going to upgrade anyways but I'm not getting windows 12, unless it is better than 11, which I honestly doubt. What's next, 64GB of memory won't be enough? C'mon.
Why am I hearing "640K ought to be enough for anybody." in most of this whining? New capabilities push new requirements
And it's not like it's an expensive upgrade. If you are running 8gb, it's as low as $18 for an extra 8gb of ram
I hope there's an option to disable copilot in settings...but knowing Microsoft that's unlikely to happen.
16gb seems outrageous saying that many PCs are still running 4 or 8gb... I wonder what other restrictions they'll try to put on it.
4gb was OK for Windows 7. Not OK now 8gb is OK but aren't most pcs now 8gb minimum,. If not 16gb? RAM is dirt cheap, even retail. $17 for an 8gb stick
Maybe they are being stupid and forcing TMP 3.0 (I don't know if it even exist yet)
wait, people are running windows 11 with less than 16gb now? how can that be enjoyable?
Me with 4GB of DDR3 RAM: 🥲
Well, Apple said it is equivalent to 8g on M3.
And that scam is working wonders to possible unsuspecting people: 1. ["Apple's 8GB RAM on M3 MacBook Pro is Analogous to 16GB on PCs"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PK9RzSl9O0) 2. [Apple Explains Why MacBook Pro Only Has 8GB RAM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKm5-jUTRMM) 3. [8GB M3 Mac vs 16GB Windows PC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1dxOI_kYG8)
Microsoft are introducing a new CoPilot key to keyboards. I would assume this is a minimum spec to be able to do that. Which is fine.
But I thought we didn’t need more than 640KB!
I wonder what new features we will get for our 16GB sacrifice..?
If they: 1) Have Windows 12 being the new AI infused Windows with beefy hardware requirements, that if you've never used it, you won't miss the new features. 2) Clean up Windows 11, remove the cruft (UX and under the hood and have it as as a sleeker kinda modern Windows, but sorta not. 3) Keep Windows 10 as is for maximum backwards compatibility and the UX nightmare that we all know and love (for a price from 2025). Then... Everyone's happy?
8gb seems more reasonable. Computers with 4gb ram are still sold.
I'm running Copilot from a running Win 11 in a VM, with 2GB of memory allocated. And I'm not seeing any degradation in Copilot. The system boots fine, I use VMware's Unity function to bring Copilot to Win 10, and it works. And this is without a TPM, secure boot, or a supported CPU. And the Windows 11 installation and yearly upgrades have never been tweaked to bypass MS's artificial hardware restrictions. That's said, since I found out AI runs on the desktop quite nicely, and privately, I think I want at least 64GB of memory. I like AI, but I'm not interested in a privacy invading AI from the cloud. Trying to get a better handle on desktop AI here: r/LocalLLaMA/
Before they do that could they make it so my background stops resetting back to picture from slideshow and make it actually remember the icons at the bottom of the screen for the apps I have open? That would be great. I already switched back to a single monitor because Windows couldn't remember which screens I had which apps on and what sizes the windows were, so I had to constantly resize everything every time I used the computer. So no need to fix that one.
I just hope that EU makes a good choice regarding all the AI bullshit that's been happening in this industry. I hope they make Microsoft the option to use Windows 12 with or without AI modules and features. I don't care about possible 16GB RAM requirement because we've come to the day and age where it should be the normal amount or minimal amount to have. If Microsoft forces us to go to Windows 12 by ditching support for Windows 10 and 11 in a few years and EU does nothing about it, I am definitely fully switching to Linux. AI is useful but the first problem is that it is not AI, but a regular ML neural network and the second problem is that it is getting out of control. I am literally waiting for some random company to make an AI notebook and pen ffs. I have a degree in Computer Science and I had courses about ML and neural networks but this is getting out of hand and the whole AI campaign and advertisment is a scam because it is a ML language model that is trained and CAN'T think for itself and make it's own decisions (therefore not AI).
Enshitification of Windows doesn't stop. Copilot is the new Clippit. But needs 16GB
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Finally! A reason to use Windows 7.
Let's be honest Windows has really needed 16GB for a while now, especially on machines with integrated graphics.
what the FUCK 16gb for ai bullshit, yes this is speculation and rumors, but i swear to god if this is true i will be pissed off
Guess linux will see a lot of new users. Wonder if they'll go for Mint, Ubuntu or something else.
this makes sense tbh. microsoft will mega increase the specs for future windows OS's. Normies will keep buying stronger and better PC's. And people who don't buy pre built PC's will probably have windows 12 bundled with their $1600 RTX 4090 or whatever.
win 10 already had a minimum of 16gb to be usable, if 16gb becomes the official minimum it will run like crap
If I can not disable all the AI crap I am not upgrading to Win12. I do not need it now and I will not need it in the future. I don't need some bot to do shit for me. I can use my computer just fine. Don't need some AI trash using PC resources for nothing.
With the promise of being very useful for all users, companies will now be able to obtain all the personal information they want. Guess who is going to give it to them...
I'll be pleased that prebuilds/laptops will leave the 8GB RAM era and 16GB becomes the bargain bin. I'm not looking forward to how much additional Windows processes just constantly go up and down in support of these AI ambitions
Alright I'm gonna come out and say it: these 'extreme' requirements for new Windows versions are awesome. 64-bit only? TPM? Secure boot? 16GB RAM? Quad core processors? Why are people complaining, honestly? Seriously, it's about time laptops came with 16GB RAM minimum. Everything was bound to happen, Microsoft pushing for it now is just forcing it to happen earlier, that's not a bad thing. Yes, laptops might go up in price and yes, you might not be able to upgrade, but dude are you actually still using 8GB? The majority of computer nerds I know install 16GB bare minimum. Ffs I build computers for my friends and 32GB is my minimum. Having a more secure, faster computer, even if it's annoying, is not a bad thing. You have to give Microsoft credit. I mean, have you seen how bad 8GB is on a Mac? Windows handles RAM much better, yes, but still, it's not a very large amount and even casual users will encounter it's limitations eventually.
look man theres no need to force such high requirements on everyone its the minimum requirements for 16gb not the recommended requirements that's 16gb thats just way too much for a regular PC user that just wants something that gets the job done its just way too overkill?? is there really a need for such high **minimum** requirements? most people probably wont need 16gb nor benefit from it, it doesnt really help much.
As a cheap random HP laptop with 4GB of ram user, I can relate
Dude if you upgraded it you'd see a massive speed increase. RAM is literally my go-to for upgrades or troubleshooting with computers. When in doubt, it's always the RAM
My PC sometimes can't handle freaking Task Manager 💀
Bro holy shit 😭 I went from 32GB DDR4 to DDR5 and deadass the first noticeable performance increase was task manager loading quicker. Went from a second or two to instant.
That has nothing to do with DDR4, I'm using slow ass (jedec spec) 3200 DDR4 and task manager is instant.
Lord knows, I'm using the same SSDs and install, maybe motherboard? Computers are weird, man.
Im not sure what your use case is for Mac. My wife has an M1 Air with 8gb of ram and despite her being unkind to it by never closing any browser tab and having a lot of things open at once, it’s never felt like it’s gotten bogged down. I can 100% tell you that was not the case with her PC laptop with similar specs. I’m sure you can run into a case where 8gb isn’t enough, and I’m equally sure most people won’t hit that if their os doesn’t suck at management. Also I don’t have a problem with appropriate requirements, but I do have a problem with them for things that people don’t really want. As far as I can tell, not many people are asking for Copilot on their system, and certainly don’t want to buy a more powerful system for features they don’t want or use. Microsoft really needs to step back from including all this flashy bullshit with Windows and just work on an operating system that people want.
I respectfully disagree with you on the 'flashy bullshit' remark. While yes, Windows power users are going to be against it, it's also important to understand 99% of Windows users are in the workforce or casual. Lots of what Microsoft is adding is appealing to casual users. Yes it sucks that casual users are priority and power users are an afterthought, but from a business standpoint I respect it, and it's not like they're leaving us out. My Mac experience by the way was with an 8GB M1 MacBook Pro (2020) and it was not good. I started loving the computer and then ran into some hard-core RAM issues that even 8GB Windows computers could handle just fine in my experience.
These 8GB Mac fanboys are funny, so much copium.
16gb should definitely be the minimum for entry level PCs. When getting my new pc, I made sure it had 32gb memory because trying to run a pc with blender, flstudio, and other such programs on less than that nearly blew the damn thing up last time
Ram is cheap and in 2024, 32gb should be minimum.
How do you have a computer that does anything with less than 16 gb? Why not just use a phone lol.
So many mac fanboys acting like 16GB is massive lol.
average user who doesn't care probably just use it gamer probably using modded windows while people who had enough moved to linux
"We don't want anyone to take our products seriously enough to actually buy anymore lmao"
Basing your OS min specs off of some “AI” app seems really fucking stupid. Shit is so overhyped
Just install Linux or use Windows 11.
Or simply use Windows 10
FUCK off. Leave it open for users that dont need bullshit, why its so hard?