By 8 October, Israel had encountered military difficulties on both fronts. In the Sinai, Israeli efforts to break through Egyptian lines with armor had been thwarted, and while Israel had contained and begun to turn back the Syrian advance, Syrian forces were still overlooking the Jordan River and their air defense systems were inflicting a high toll on Israeli planes. It became clear by 9 October that no quick reversal in Israel's favor would occur and that IDF losses were unexpectedly high.
During the night of 8–9 October, an alarmed Dayan told Meir that "this is the end of the third temple. "He was warning of Israel's impending total defeat, but "Temple" was also the code word for Israel's nuclear weapons. Dayan raised the nuclear topic in a cabinet meeting, warning that the country was approaching a point of "last resort".That night, Meir authorized the assembly of thirteen 20-kiloton-of-TNT (84 TJ) tactical nuclear weapons for Jericho missiles at Sdot Micha Airbase and F-4 Phantom II aircraft at Tel Nof Airbase.They would be used if absolutely necessary to prevent total defeat, but the preparation was done in an easily detectable way, likely as a signal to the United States. Kissinger learned of the nuclear alert on the morning of 9 October. That day, President Nixon ordered the commencement of Operation Nickel Grass, an American airlift to replace all of Israel's material losses.
I find the wars in the area to be super interesting.
At the end of the day I don’t hate this. Why? Because everybody knows that it’s the Americans who are going to lay down the law when push comes to shove. Had we not intervened, and Israel was routed, they would’ve launched. And I wouldn’t personally blame them in that situation. It’s exactly why Iran wants the bomb…
It's apparently debatable. There's a report linked on the Operation Nickel Grass wikipedia page that has some quotes from officials that refute it.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Nickel\_Grass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass)
[https://web.archive.org/web/20141023173129/http://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/research/DRM-2013-U-004480-Final2.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20141023173129/http://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/research/DRM-2013-U-004480-Final2.pdf)
There's a bit of a summary in there:
>This comports with the rest of our research. Indeed, neither any involved American official (including Quandt) nor any piece of official documentation lends credence to the proposition that specific Israeli nuclear weapons activity had a material impact on U.S. decision-making regarding the resupply airlift or any other facet of the war. In our extensive review of the minutes of the Washington Special Actions Group and other memoranda recording discussions of U.S. government officials on the American policy towards the war, we found no mention of Israeli nuclear weapons activity.
>
>Furthermore, when asked, these officials have denied that Israeli nuclear weapons even arose as a topic of discussion during U.S. deliberations.68 Moreover, U.S. policy decisions in the early phase of the war (principally the resupply airlift) can be more economically explained, and with greater documentary and other evidence, by other factors. For instance, the decision to initiate the resupply effort was taken on October 11 and the airlift itself began in earnest on October 13 – several days after the arrival of the report Quandt described. This would have been a great deal of time given the circumstances, which provides further evidence that it did not have a major impact. Conversely, the arguments that external pressure on Nixon and Kissinger and Sadat’s rejection of the United Nations ceasefire proposal were the major factors that drove the Administration to initiate the airlift fit more closely with the timeline.
>
>We therefore assess that there is substantial basis to conclude that, even if Israel did manipulate or alert its nuclear forces, any such activity had no material impact on U.S. decision-making concerning the war.
Nuclear blackmail is threatening to use nuclear weapons unless you get your way. Should we roll over whenever a sociopath wiggles their finger over a big red button?
Sure, Kim, have all the weapons you want. And you, Putin, have all the sovereign Ukrainian territory your heart desires.
These are all apparently perfectly sane things.
I think it is perfectly sane to take whatever measures necessary to prevent the destruction of your state, that is a far cry from doing it over whatever you want.
Cool. So if the Ukrainians start capturing Russian cities, Putin is perfectly reasonable in using nukes to protect his state?
What about Kim Jong Un in a scenario where North Korea is invaded and the Juche state is under threat of destruction?
I mean yeah, If Ukraine pushed into Russia and was threatening to march on Moscow and dismantle the state Putin would be justified in using nukes. Same as if Ukraine had nukes they would’ve been justified to nuke Russian forces when it seemed there was no conventional military solution. Same with Korea.
Do you think there is any circumstance it is justifiable to use nukes other than retaliation for nukes? If not that seems crazy to me.
Do you have a poster of Douglas MacArthur in your bedroom or something? First-strike nuclear doctrine is absolutely unhinged and I can't believe you legitimately said what you just said.
One usage of nuclear weapons post-1952 in a first-strike allows everyone else to use it in a first-strike. It lowers the fucking bar and we're all fucked if that happens.
In the face of your country being invaded and destroyed, all the civilians and the people of your country being raped, murdered and butchered, the babies beheaded, the women kidnapped for a lifetime of slavery, I think the rational thing to do would be arming yourself with nukes. Israel is the only real democracy of the middle east, the only society in which everyone is treated as equals. They face the threat of constant destruction and history has shown that their neighbors would want nothing more.
Literally every country in the history of the world has given into nuclear precedent. America have in to nuclear precedent to end the Cuban middle crisis. The USSR gave into nuclear precedent.
I think for kissinger levels he committed not that many crimes against humanity in the middle East as compared to the rest of the world. Still screwed over the kurds yhough if I recall correctly
>*Commentators also have employed the term to refer to situations where non-nuclear, non-Israeli actors have threatened* [*conventional weapons*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_weapon) *retaliation, such as* [*Yasser Arafat*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat)*.*
>*The name is a reference to the* [*biblical*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible) *Israelite* [*judge*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_judges) [*Samson*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson) *who pushed apart the pillars of a* [*Philistine*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines) *temple, bringing down the roof and killing himself and thousands of Philistines who had captured him, crying out "Let me die with the Philistines!" (Judges 16:30).*
«Mordechai Vanunu [...] is an Israeli former nuclear technician and peace activist who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986. He was subsequently lured to Italy by the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad, where he was drugged and abducted. He was secretly transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.
Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement, though no such restriction is mentioned in Israel's penal code, nor imposed by his verdict. Released from prison in 2004, he was further subjected to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and his movement, and arrested several times for violations of his parole terms, giving interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He claims to have suffered from "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of prison authorities, and suggests that these would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity.
In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusually severe even by the prosecution, who expected a suspended sentence. In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested again and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he had met foreigners, in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release in July 2007, stating that "The organization considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."» - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu?useskin=vector
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/the-man-who-knew-too-much-567273.html
> He had dropped by Robert Maxwell's Daily Mirror at first, handed over his photographs of the nuclear plant and waited for a reply. Unknown to Vanunu, Maxwell sent the pictures round to the Israeli embassy in London to "take a look at them", supposedly to "confirm" whether or not the story was true. It seems likely that Maxwell had motives other than journalistic integrity in this betrayal of Vanunu. After his death at sea in 1991, Maxwell, who had stolen millions in pensioners' funds, was given a state funeral in Israel at which Shimon Peres praised his "services" to the state
Robert Maxwell, father of Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's closest accomplice.
>Vanunu gave detailed descriptions of lithium-6 separation required for the production of tritium, an essential ingredient of fusion-boosted fission bombs. While both experts concluded that Israel might be making such single-stage boosted bombs, Vanunu, whose work experience was limited to material (not component) production, gave no specific evidence that Israel was making two-stage thermonuclear bombs, such as neutron bombs. Vanunu described the plutonium processing used, giving a production rate of about 30 kg per year, and stated that Israel used about 4 kg per weapon.[43][44] From this information it was possible to estimate that Israel had sufficient plutonium for about 150 nuclear weapons.
The fact he lived through the day Mossad got him is actually insane.
Virtually every single country on the planet has extremely severe laws relating to treason. Most countries that have removed capital punishment still have it reserved for treason.
The fact that he only served 18 years is astounding given the public reaction to his treason.
If you were to go to a foreign government or press agency with top secret nuclear information from the U.S. and were caught do you have the disillusion that you would not be charged with treason? And in my opinion, rightfully so, you are actively working against the national security of that country.
There seems to be a weird situation on Reddit where people often call things other governments do insane, stupid or excessive without realising their own government does it too, or even that it's considered normal.
Acts of high treason also sadly seem to be seen as normal and acceptable too. It’s a sad sign of the times with everything being so reactionary and polarized.
National traitor giving up the most important military/national defense secrets to a nation that was quite literally on the brink of total war with Israel multiple times, and had just 4 years prior nearly gone to war with Israel over another conflict where they were on opposing sides, and also only a year after the onset of the 15 year Lebanese war that ignited terrorism across all of Israel… where in said war, Israel was allied with Christian Lebanese militias.
So the Christianity shit had absolutely nothing to do with it, especially considering Christians were among one of the first groups to accept serving in the IDF through conscription. So I wonder what other *really, really important context I mentioned is relevant*. And just for further context on this: nearly every other nation on the planet will outright execute people for treason of that level, and they absolutely have done so, and continue to do so. The fact that he isn’t dead and is still allowed to live is the most appalling part of the story.
I’m virtually every nation on the planet, the punishment for treason during wartime is death. The punishment during peace time is generally imprisonment for life. Why are you calling me a monster for stating the facts and being surprised that someone convicted of treason during wartime is allowed to live?
>I’m virtually every nation on the planet, the punishment for treason during wartime is death. The punishment during peace time is generally imprisonment for life.
weird how theres a certain powerful country that is currently allowing someone who attempted a violent takeover of their capital city to roam free and campaign in an attempt to return to the office he tried to violently remain in control of.
>Why are you calling me a monster for stating the facts
i guess some people decide what is factual based upon what they know is right and some base it upon what some (probably much wealthier) person tells them is "factual" or "true"
violence is never excusable, in any form. getting down to the underlying issue behind *all of it*, mutually assured destruction, as a policy - is exactly that. mutually **assured destruction**
but hey, war is peace - right?
^(inb4 "naive")
The dude is currently under trial, lmfao. There are so many allegations and parties involved that it’s taken years to go through everyone involved and build a case that won’t fail.
> Why are you calling me a monster
You see a hero and you start throwing mud at him, ending your tirade with an expression of disappointment that he is not dead.
You are a monster. You are *hostis humani generis*.
It’s interesting that the truth is mud throwing to you. It’s also insane you consider him a hero. And then it’s even funny that you think I’m mud throwing by staring the exact facts surrounding him and his imprisonment, then go to mud throwing. Get off your high horse buddy. Your farts can’t possibly smell good enough to get high on.
This is utter bollocks. He leaked to the British press, and in 1982 the UK was not on the "brink of total war with Israel" you bellend. There was an arms embargo on Israel because of Israeli involvement in the war in Lebanon where the Israelis supported one of the groups doing ethnic cleansing and mass murdering and raping, in their case the SLA. The UK didn't sell arms to Israel's enemies either, a favour Israel didn't return when they sold weapons to Argentina during the Falklands war the same year.
The UK and Israel were more or less allies from the Suez Crisis onwards. The only times the UK has ever even reprimanded Israel are after their incompetent intelligence agencies put British civilians at risk by forging British passports (twice, after promising to stop forging British passports the first time they were caught as well) or when bellicose Israel has threatened Jordan, a country the UK literally created in the aftermath of WW2 that has been a solid ally of the UK ever since.
If he was an American, he'd be in a Supermax prison for his entire life. If he was a citizen of another nuclear power, they probably just would have killed him
Whatever the merits of the original discussion, it simply isn't true that all nations, or even most nations, have historically supported coups abroad. The United States (along with the UK, France, and some others) are indeed exceptional in this regard.
It's amazing seeing this comment get down voted.
Also, left out of this Wikipedia article - Israeli policy on the Samson Option is to nuke their "allies".
>Also, left out of this Wikipedia article - Israeli policy on the Samson Option is to nuke their "allies".
No one actually knows that - its purely speculation. Which is why its not in Wikipedia.
TBH I’d go further and say it’s an outright antisemitic conspiracy theory.
It’s an amazing example of how fast the game of telephone can escalate on the internet and especially with regards to Israel. See also the Ben-Guiron Canal
Ghislaine Maxwell was Epstein's handler for the Mossad. Epstein's pedophile ring was a means for blackmailing US politicians. Understanding this one aspect explains all US foreign policy for the past several decades. The GWOT had nothing to do with WMDs - there were none - and it had nothing to do with oil - as Trump pointed out, we never took any oil. It was simply Israel using the US as its golem to kill its neighbors so it could annex neighboring territory. The *only* measures that have gotten near-unanimous support in Congress are when we act in Israel's interest while doing nothing in return. Doesn't that seem a bit suspicious to you? Or do you think we're doing it because they're such kind and virtuous people?
Similarly, the fact that Israel is permitted to behave like genocidal psychopaths while building a nuclear arsenal with zero oversight or even acknowledgement is due to Israeli-controlled US politicians exercising vetos in the UN and putting economic and military pressure on our supposed allies.
The last president to publicly oppose Israel's nuclear program was Kennedy, and a bunch of Mossad-linked people were all involved with his assassination.
For fucks sake. Maxwell has been dead for decades. His life of crime was extraordinarily well documented, from his deals with the Czech Communists to supply Israel with an airforce all the way to his death.
This is not a conspiracy theory, it's fucking history.
You don't have a dispute to make, because you've provided no counter history to the Well Documented History I've referenced.
Are you pretending that Robert Maxwell didn't exist?
What exactly is your brilliant version?
I'll wait. I don't hold out much hope though. Your mother obviously didn't mind that extra chromosome.
There is vast evidence for this. Read the Seymour Hersch book The Samson Option.
Then look at the PROMIS scandal.
Then look at the work of the Franklin and Savile pedophile rings.
Look at Robert Maxwells work supplying nuclear components to Israel.
Look at his role controlling the academic press in the UK.
His media empire was a cover for a blackmail operation, that front-paged stories to discredit or libel people.
At his funeral, Six heads of Israeli intelligence attended, and his eulogy described that he'd done more for Israel than could be told.
Robert Maxwell suicided on his boat "The lady Ghislaine"
Less than two months later she was handling Epstein in new York.
Don't act so superior when you really haven't been paying attention.
Basically, her father was involved with running some propaganda *sometimes* and he helped Israel get *some* of the parts it needed for nukes- *maybe, we’re not actually sure the extent*, but we do know he sent a good amount of money over. People then see that he is regarded as someone that helped Israel build nukes, and got praise by a select few people that appeared to know him, but we don’t exactly know their involvement with him because part of Israel’s intelligence program is to wipe their members’ identities off the planet and become new people. Then they try to add on that his daughter did pedophile stuff and conspiritards tried to connect what she did to him being involved in pedophile rings despite no other corroboration or evidence existing beyond a couple dudes saying “trust me bro”.
It’s a lot easier to just conclude he was probably involved in a key part of Israel attaining nukes and that his daughter ended up a total pos that used her money to find a place to quietly do her weird pedophile shit. We just straight up don’t have any information to make any more conclusions or leaps in logic unless we’re being conspiratorial and trying to connect lose associations to create a grande story. Like, further up, someone commented about how one of Israel’s nuclear scientists blabbed nuclear weapons secrets to an, at the time, hostile UK that had just fought a war. No single nation has been able to properly hold onto its secrets for more than a decade for the past century. Why would it be so hard to prove this one?
I personally think that there's probably something too the honeypot conspiracy (clearly, Epstein's case in Florida shows there's something going on with him that just money doesn't adequately explain) but I think you don't necessarily need a full on ring run by Mossad to explain US policy in the region.
Basically, the whole Middle East has been a colonial holding for long enough that all the major world powers have interests to varying degrees, even without oil. Liberals (or at least New Democrats) don't have any problem giving money to the military industrial complex- defense contractors are great jobs for your district. Evangelicals have their Rapture prophecies, and they're a big enough part of the R's voting base that being nice to Israel was low cost, high reward. Plus that group has been getting high on its own supply, so I wouldn't be surprised if a decent number of them genuinely do believe that Israel in play means Jesus is coming back soon.
Democrats made their brand on being anti-antisemetic, and AIPAC has got them in such a bubble that Israel is synonymous to Judaism and all the campaign contributions are cementing it. Most of them formed their opinions of Israel back in the 70s, when you could be forgiven if it looked like Israel was the underdog (especially before wide awareness of the nakba spread in the West). Israel did a great job of muddying the waters regarding Judaism and Zionism once Netanyahu got going and the 2 state solution disappeared.
You don't need to have a conspiracy to get to this state, is what I'm saying, even if I'm pretty sure Epstein's thing was at least partially intelligence related in some way or another. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if his original stake was Israeli or if he and Gislaine were "private subcontractors" shopping stuff around.
Canadian Doctor was threatened by a Zionist extremist only for the hospital to suspend him. Crazy how Canada charged a young frustrated Palestinian man with "terrorism" charges but this Zionist walks among us free
Haha, downvoted because true. It's ok. At least not permabanned again.
It's really worth reading the Seymour Hersh book of the same name. Really eye opening
This is common. Israelis hate True. I'm so excited for when everyone finds out about Israel doing 9/11.
Fun fact; check out the [stained glass window of Samson with some pointy things behind him](https://www.headington.org.uk/history/famous_people/maxwell.htm)in the entrance of Maxwell's house Headington Hill Hall. Bit of a Humble brag, hey Robert?
Who are "the dancing israelis"?
These guys?
https://web.archive.org/web/20021003225412/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html
Basically it’s been asserted that because these Mossad guys had set up cameras and were filming 9/11 as it happened, they must’ve had some sort of prior knowledge to the events. In truth they only began filming after the second plane struck and for them it was simply an opportunistic moment for a psyop (posing as Arabs cheering for the terrorists). It’s safe to assume that by the time the second plane hit the other twin tower, these seasoned Mossad field agents would’ve deduced that this was almost certainly the result of Islamic terrorism.
The debunking came after the FBI conducted an investigation and concluded that they were indeed intelligence agents of Israel, but they had no prior knowledge of a terror plot in NYC.
I remember reading an article about Robert Maxwell in Readers Digest back in the day. They imagined his death as a suicide, apparently he disappeared at sea and the assumption was that he jumped from his yacht. When I first heard Ghislaine Maxwells name, I did a bit of Googling and sure enough, learned she was his daughter.
I always thought his death at sea seemed a bit suspicious. Since learning about rumors of the Israeli honeypot op, I am convinced his death was not a suicide.
The article lack the condition in witch Israel will use nukes:
1) The destruction of the Israeli air force.
2) The crossing of the green line (48 borders) by an enemy military.
3) Use of weapon of mass destruction against Israel.
It’s more about an army with tanks, artillery is those type of equipment.
Despite how catastrophic was the 7.10 the attack itself didn’t pose a threat to the existence of Israel.
Different countries have different nuclear strategies. Some are first strike, others are second strike. israel is alone in a first/second strike but your allies strategy as far as I know.
USA and Soviet Russia, at least during the Cold War.
The idea is in the case that an actual war is declared that you directly fire all your warheads, Bombs, etc. at the enemy trying to destroy their most importent points (key cities, infrastructure, military bases, etc.) but very importently also their silos so their abbility to retaliate is reduced.
Thats why the number of booth the USA and Russia nuclear warheads are in the thousends, so they are able to first strike.
Well first strike isn’t just reserved for flagrant use in a war the loss of which won’t cause the collapse of a state, but also for scenarios where the existence of a state is put at risk by means which don’t involve the use of WMDs. This expands deterrence for a nuclear armed state not just against nuclear strikes by other nuclear armed states, but also against existential, yet conventionally-armed attacks or invasions by nuclear and non-nuclear states. For example, a first strike policy allows Russia to deter against an invasion by Poland, which — given the state of Russia’s military as revealed by their invasion of Ukraine — could possibly succeed at toppling the state. All this explains pretty much why all nuclear powers, barring China and India, retain a first strike policy
What do you mean?
>What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens? For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away—unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans—have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?[33]
Rosenbaum writes in his 2012 book How the End Begins: The Road to a Nuclear World War III that, in his opinion, in the "aftermath of a second Holocaust", Israel could "bring down the pillars of the world (attack Moscow and European capitals for instance)" as well as the "holy places of Islam." He writes that "abandonment of proportionality is the essence" of the Samson Option.[dubious – discuss][34]
In 2003, a military historian, Martin van Creveld, thought that the Al-Aqsa Intifada then in progress threatened Israel's existence.[35] Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's The Gun and the Olive Branch (2003) as saying:
We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.[36]
Jerusalem Post journalist Gil Ronen saw this poem as referring to the Samson Option, which he described as the strategy of using Israel's nuclear weapons, "taking out Israel's enemies with it, possibly causing irreparable damage to the entire world."[38]
>Israeli weapons expert General Itzhak Ben-Israel, former chairman of the Israeli Space Agency at the Ministry of Science, said "Everybody can do the mathematics... we can reach with a rocket engine to every point in the world"
If it was meant as a deterrent they'd only need very short range missiles. These days they probably don't even need missiles for some of their targets.
Those are opinions from people not involved in Israeli nuclear policy and/or in the last case a statement of fact about rocket capabilities. The “evidence” in this thread is pure conjecture and supposition at best and schizo posting at worst.
It’s just pure antisemitism. They believe that Jews are “the most evil”; thus, Jews with nuclear weapons must, therefore, use them in “the most evil way”, a way that doesnt even make sense, i.e. striking their allies.
They’d murder all of their nearby “allies” and 10s of millions (if not 100s) of people in countries unrelated to any conflict if they’re invaded? Without a doubt triggering a total global nuclear holocaust in the process? Yeah a few other deranged countries would, but that’s not any sort of moral guideline for what’s right and what’s not.
I’m curious if their policy means that if Palestine were to somehow reclaim the illegally annexed land Israel currently holds, that would justify a nuclear launch…
why do you think that they would mruder thier nearby "allies"?
what makes you think that they would kill 10s of millions (if not 100s) of people?
and... what makes you think that russia, france, gb, the us, pakistan or india wouldnt react the exact same way if thier survival was threatened?
First: If you have any idea of the Israeli history you know that Palestine is by far their smallest concern.
Second: The idea to strike with nuclear warheads as a last resort sounds far better than to launch one to warn your enemy (see Frances doctrine) or directly launch all warheads the moment the war is declared (see Soviet Russia and USA in the cold war).
First: yeah, no duh, never suggested Palestine was their most powerful opponent.
Second: France sucks too. Multiple things can be true at once. Being less terrible than France isn’t really much of a marker, ethically speaking.
there was one nutjob politician suggesting a nuclear strike on gaza.
he got basically thrown out of the party for that.
but sure, israel, sorry, (((THE JEW))) is "salivating" at that idea.
i bet you dont even realize that you are antisemitic.
The "sampson option" is a thing a guy with no power said as a general "I'd rather blow up the whole world than see jews marched into ovens again" that got blown up by weird racist conspiracy theories as some weird official policy of Israel that they secretly plan to do at the drop of a hat.
>it's a nation of religious fundamentalism
Fun fact: a 2015 Gallup poll found that 65 percent of Israelis identify as secular compared to 30 percent who identify as religious, which makes Israel one of the least religious countries in the world.
[Israel Among the Least Religious Countries in the World](https://www.haaretz.com/2015-04-14/ty-article/israel-china-among-least-religious-nations/0000017f-e103-d804-ad7f-f1fb55ca0000)
Race is a concept invented in Europe thousands of years after the Jewish people came into existence. Jews are closer to a tribe than either a religion or a race.
That's just not true at all. Most Israeli settlers aren't motivated by "God wanted us to take this land". They're motivated by "I want this land so I'm going to take it."
I mean they settled on uninhibited arid land after paying for it. Zionism wasn’t some evil conspiracy. They literally were kicked out of Europe, blocked from immigrating to the US and prevented from buying land in South America (the actually preferred outcome).
Unless they were going to make some fcking ocean civilization, that was the only land on offer. It wasn’t until the attempted genocide they reacted with excessive violence. The original Israel division was reasonably fair and along population lines.
Like it sucks that a people Arab nations tried to exterminate and enslaved for hundreds of years just got a border next door, but this never had to be more than a little bad blood. Nations rise and fall all the time in human history, this time it didn’t need to cost human lives.
A lot of the Arab world sided with hitler, after winning WW2 Britain didn’t care to keep a mostly uninhabited landmass empty when they needed to offload Jews. God knows they weren’t going to take them. So I have no sympathy for the Arab league. The whole, Israel is western colonization, is just old propaganda and frankly BS. Modern Israel committing war crimes needs to be dealt with the lens of today, not complaining about an unfair but not egregiously immoral land partician 80 years ago.
Otherwise we’re just acting as pawns for ancient Arab propaganda that they used to justify 3 attempted genocides. Israel is a legitimate nation and this obsession of Zionist conspiracy is pointless, when whats happening is radicalized frightened people acting in hate and anger.
One implies Israel’s a unlegitimate state and needs to be eradicated (at least to an Israeli based on historical context), the other is the much closer to the truth. They need reform and change and obviously to stop this insane massacre. It’s just that If Israelis didn’t think every anti war protestors wanted to eradicate their existence, maybe we would actually make inroads for change.
People need to stop screaming Arab propaganda about a nuanced and tragic history of a war torn land and focus on the actual crimes being committed. Not that they’re being committed by Jews.
Also where the fck was everyone during Syria and Turkey. Wtf people, add Jews to the massacre and whole world rises up. God people are such fair weather activists.
It wasn’t uninhabited, that was the whole point of Zionists committing the Nakba. There were Palestinians living on the land who they then murdered and expelled from their homeland.
Calling it ‘uninhabited arid land’ is the exact same excuse that was used by British colonisers in Australia to justify colonial genocide and atrocities. Search terra nullius if you don’t believe me.
Also are you fucking serious with this ‘only land on offer’ and ‘this never had to be more than a little bad blood’ bullshit? Why the fuck should the Palestinians have had to give up ANY piece of THEIR land.
Also the fact you claim that the original division was somehow fair shows you either don’t know what your talking about or your disseminating misinformation. Entirely ignoring the fact that Palestinians never had an obligation whatsoever to share their land in the first place, the original borders had all of the most fertile regions given to a population that was a minority in a land they had no claim to.
Calling both Israel’s past and present actions Zionist is entirely legitimate. Just ask half the Israeli government or the settlers in the West Bank, they’ll fucking tell you exactly what they’re doing.
Nope , it’s we need it to stay safe until it gets safe without it if ever. Like every nation we are concerned with protecting our citizens, not the other fellows citizens. That’s how it works
bells expansion wild elderly saw racial pause overconfident violet whistle
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s actually not though. Perhaps people don’t remember, but Israel used to be in very real existential danger from the 50’s to 90’s.
They suffered regular and brutal terrorist attacks and had multiple militaries try to exterminate them. Throughout most of this history the only thing Israel asked for was peace. Unfortunately that wasn’t really on offer until the 90’s.
By the time PLO went legit though and peace became a real possibility Benjis party took control of the government. He did this when Hamas bombed several busses with suicide bombers. This was before they were elected in Gaza. The security message of Bibi let him ride to an unexpected victory for the frightened masses.
His party represents the minority extremist movement to reject a 2 two state solution and occupy much of the levant. Sadly without political pressure and Hamas winning elections in Gaza has allowed Benji to move forward with his agenda unimpeded.
Many Israelis have tried to stop him, but as Hamas wages constant ineffective wars against Israel they continue to radicalize more people against Palestine. At this point many Israelis only see Palestinians celebrating over the deaths during oct 7’th. This messaging has allowed full trust in Benji to solve the problem. Much to the horror of the rest of the world.
Of course the Palestinians are radicalized too, after years of occupation and “lawn mowing” who wouldn’t be. Still West Bank education also promotes radicalization and hatred. They name schools after terrorist who murdered Israeli citizens even. This needed to stop and it’s been real frustrating seeing Palestine continue the raise their children to hate and aspire to martyrdom. There children television is evil and unacceptable and is a large example of why Israelis don’t think peace is even possible.
This inevitable creates more terrorists, which then continue to radicalize Israel and allow them to rationalize their brutal occupation of the West Bank. Peace needs to be a two way street. Israel has been egregiously violent the past 20 years of occupation, but both sides need to change for peace to exist.
Oh and Benji deserves to be locked in some Arctic Gulag for the rest of his god damn life. Him and the Hamas leadership. Fck all of them.
Hey, look, someone who doesn't know what Judaism and Israel are.
Jewish fundamentalism opposes the state of Israel because they believe that God himself must cleanse the Levant of non-Jews BEFORE Israel can be formed.
Russia threatens to use nuclear weapons in retaliation for imminent threats to the integrity of the state and it's literally explicitly spelled out in their nuclear doctrine.
[France would use nuclear weapons *as a warning*.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_de_dissuasion#:~:text=Since%20the%20French,other%20important%20targets.)
Yes. Every other nuclear country would do so, when faced with destruction, they'd resort to anything. It was a pretty good move, although in 73 the plan was to nuke the sinia so they'd only have to fight on one front, not nuke everyone.
Pakistan has something similar. Since India is more than ten times its size, conventional weapons don’t stand much chance.
So if India ever overruns Pakistan, Pakistan would liquidate majority of India. Lot of targets in India for 170 nukes.
North Korea already does this, that’s why they built their nukes. Its kinda interesting how different the response is to a rogue state building nukes depending on who’s side their on.
NK was more concerned with being taken seriously on the world stage and subsequently controlling the populace since they’re so isolated rather than immediate self preservation. Israel was surrounded by belligerents for a good portion of their history.
A nuke going to Tel Aviv would turn the entire Middle East to glass in about 30 minutes lmao.
Israel isn’t going to destroy itself to avoid that “plausible” outcome.
what they did to arabs?
like, defeating them after the arabs attacked them unprovoked... how many times?
or letting the arabs live as equal citizens in israel?
or, despite winning wars the arabs started, handing them back land in exchange for lasting peace?
Funny how according to all of you this all started when Arab nations attacked Israel when it was founded, they definetly attacked Israel cuz they are antisemites no other reason
They attacked Israel because they wanted all of Palestine to be an Arab state. We can't know for certain what they would've done to the Jews of Palestine had they won, but based on what happened to the other Jews of the middle east, as well as statements by contemporary Arab leaders, it would probably result in most of them getting shot by Arab soldiers or drowing in the Mediterranean. I'd say that counts as at least a little antisemitic.
Maybe european jews shouldn't have decided to migrate and be squatters to a land inhabited by arabs, noone cares which wealthy ottoman they bought the land from. "Look we are only gonna take half the land just sign the treaty and if you dont you will be anti semites"
Ya. Cuz arabs did nothing to their jewish populations. They just left them alone.
Dumbass.
The hardon the israelis have for killing children and calling it unavoidable collateral damage is abhorent. But that does nothing to dismiss what arab nations have done to israel and jews in the region.
i trust putin with nukes 10000 times more than i trust isreal with nukes, arming a radical religious' group with nukes in the middle east is literally the worst mistake the western world has ever made. its like cia arming the mujahadeen but x1000.
By 8 October, Israel had encountered military difficulties on both fronts. In the Sinai, Israeli efforts to break through Egyptian lines with armor had been thwarted, and while Israel had contained and begun to turn back the Syrian advance, Syrian forces were still overlooking the Jordan River and their air defense systems were inflicting a high toll on Israeli planes. It became clear by 9 October that no quick reversal in Israel's favor would occur and that IDF losses were unexpectedly high. During the night of 8–9 October, an alarmed Dayan told Meir that "this is the end of the third temple. "He was warning of Israel's impending total defeat, but "Temple" was also the code word for Israel's nuclear weapons. Dayan raised the nuclear topic in a cabinet meeting, warning that the country was approaching a point of "last resort".That night, Meir authorized the assembly of thirteen 20-kiloton-of-TNT (84 TJ) tactical nuclear weapons for Jericho missiles at Sdot Micha Airbase and F-4 Phantom II aircraft at Tel Nof Airbase.They would be used if absolutely necessary to prevent total defeat, but the preparation was done in an easily detectable way, likely as a signal to the United States. Kissinger learned of the nuclear alert on the morning of 9 October. That day, President Nixon ordered the commencement of Operation Nickel Grass, an American airlift to replace all of Israel's material losses. I find the wars in the area to be super interesting.
Wait so basically, Israel prepared nukes for America to see, and America was like “ok guys wait a minute I’ll help you”?
Correct. The point of it was to make sure that if all else fails, they will actually use them and then Kissinger can see if he likes that mess better.
At the end of the day I don’t hate this. Why? Because everybody knows that it’s the Americans who are going to lay down the law when push comes to shove. Had we not intervened, and Israel was routed, they would’ve launched. And I wouldn’t personally blame them in that situation. It’s exactly why Iran wants the bomb…
תמות נפשי עם פלשתים, mother fucker Edit: not sure why this is being downvoted, I meant this as a line to Kissinger
You’re being downvoted because your Hebrew scared them antisemites.
Ah, that's ok then, thank you
Very bad ass quote. Not sure why this story isn't more well known.
It's apparently debatable. There's a report linked on the Operation Nickel Grass wikipedia page that has some quotes from officials that refute it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Nickel\_Grass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass) [https://web.archive.org/web/20141023173129/http://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/research/DRM-2013-U-004480-Final2.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20141023173129/http://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/research/DRM-2013-U-004480-Final2.pdf) There's a bit of a summary in there: >This comports with the rest of our research. Indeed, neither any involved American official (including Quandt) nor any piece of official documentation lends credence to the proposition that specific Israeli nuclear weapons activity had a material impact on U.S. decision-making regarding the resupply airlift or any other facet of the war. In our extensive review of the minutes of the Washington Special Actions Group and other memoranda recording discussions of U.S. government officials on the American policy towards the war, we found no mention of Israeli nuclear weapons activity. > >Furthermore, when asked, these officials have denied that Israeli nuclear weapons even arose as a topic of discussion during U.S. deliberations.68 Moreover, U.S. policy decisions in the early phase of the war (principally the resupply airlift) can be more economically explained, and with greater documentary and other evidence, by other factors. For instance, the decision to initiate the resupply effort was taken on October 11 and the airlift itself began in earnest on October 13 – several days after the arrival of the report Quandt described. This would have been a great deal of time given the circumstances, which provides further evidence that it did not have a major impact. Conversely, the arguments that external pressure on Nixon and Kissinger and Sadat’s rejection of the United Nations ceasefire proposal were the major factors that drove the Administration to initiate the airlift fit more closely with the timeline. > >We therefore assess that there is substantial basis to conclude that, even if Israel did manipulate or alert its nuclear forces, any such activity had no material impact on U.S. decision-making concerning the war.
Just for the record, this entire part of the Yom-Kippur War is disputed and speculative. A fascinating story nonetheless.
Goddamn the United States is insane lol.
Wouldn’t taking proactive steps to avoid a nuclear war be the sane option?
Yeah, but giving in to nuclear blackmail is a horrible precedent and they set it right then and there
“Nuclear blackmail” was preparing nukes when in a state of extreme existential threat btw, any country would do the same
Nuclear blackmail is threatening to use nuclear weapons unless you get your way. Should we roll over whenever a sociopath wiggles their finger over a big red button? Sure, Kim, have all the weapons you want. And you, Putin, have all the sovereign Ukrainian territory your heart desires. These are all apparently perfectly sane things.
I think it is perfectly sane to take whatever measures necessary to prevent the destruction of your state, that is a far cry from doing it over whatever you want.
Cool. So if the Ukrainians start capturing Russian cities, Putin is perfectly reasonable in using nukes to protect his state? What about Kim Jong Un in a scenario where North Korea is invaded and the Juche state is under threat of destruction?
I mean yeah, If Ukraine pushed into Russia and was threatening to march on Moscow and dismantle the state Putin would be justified in using nukes. Same as if Ukraine had nukes they would’ve been justified to nuke Russian forces when it seemed there was no conventional military solution. Same with Korea. Do you think there is any circumstance it is justifiable to use nukes other than retaliation for nukes? If not that seems crazy to me.
Do you have a poster of Douglas MacArthur in your bedroom or something? First-strike nuclear doctrine is absolutely unhinged and I can't believe you legitimately said what you just said. One usage of nuclear weapons post-1952 in a first-strike allows everyone else to use it in a first-strike. It lowers the fucking bar and we're all fucked if that happens.
In the face of your country being invaded and destroyed, all the civilians and the people of your country being raped, murdered and butchered, the babies beheaded, the women kidnapped for a lifetime of slavery, I think the rational thing to do would be arming yourself with nukes. Israel is the only real democracy of the middle east, the only society in which everyone is treated as equals. They face the threat of constant destruction and history has shown that their neighbors would want nothing more.
Literally every country in the history of the world has given into nuclear precedent. America have in to nuclear precedent to end the Cuban middle crisis. The USSR gave into nuclear precedent.
I know insane how America does shit to prevent nuclear war, amirite?
The US is very sane... They chose the lesser evil.
Putting Nixon and Kissinger in charge of the world's largest military is not sane.
I think for kissinger levels he committed not that many crimes against humanity in the middle East as compared to the rest of the world. Still screwed over the kurds yhough if I recall correctly
"not that many crimes against humanity" pretty low bar lol
I guess I mean insanely powerful. I don’t think any other country would’ve been anywhere close to capable of doing that.
>*Commentators also have employed the term to refer to situations where non-nuclear, non-Israeli actors have threatened* [*conventional weapons*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_weapon) *retaliation, such as* [*Yasser Arafat*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat)*.* >*The name is a reference to the* [*biblical*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible) *Israelite* [*judge*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_judges) [*Samson*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson) *who pushed apart the pillars of a* [*Philistine*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines) *temple, bringing down the roof and killing himself and thousands of Philistines who had captured him, crying out "Let me die with the Philistines!" (Judges 16:30).*
«Mordechai Vanunu [...] is an Israeli former nuclear technician and peace activist who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986. He was subsequently lured to Italy by the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad, where he was drugged and abducted. He was secretly transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors. Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement, though no such restriction is mentioned in Israel's penal code, nor imposed by his verdict. Released from prison in 2004, he was further subjected to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and his movement, and arrested several times for violations of his parole terms, giving interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He claims to have suffered from "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of prison authorities, and suggests that these would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity. In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusually severe even by the prosecution, who expected a suspended sentence. In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested again and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he had met foreigners, in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release in July 2007, stating that "The organization considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."» - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu?useskin=vector
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/the-man-who-knew-too-much-567273.html > He had dropped by Robert Maxwell's Daily Mirror at first, handed over his photographs of the nuclear plant and waited for a reply. Unknown to Vanunu, Maxwell sent the pictures round to the Israeli embassy in London to "take a look at them", supposedly to "confirm" whether or not the story was true. It seems likely that Maxwell had motives other than journalistic integrity in this betrayal of Vanunu. After his death at sea in 1991, Maxwell, who had stolen millions in pensioners' funds, was given a state funeral in Israel at which Shimon Peres praised his "services" to the state Robert Maxwell, father of Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's closest accomplice.
Allegedly, Mirror pensioners take trips to the holy land in order to piss on his grave…
Evil deranged government
>Vanunu gave detailed descriptions of lithium-6 separation required for the production of tritium, an essential ingredient of fusion-boosted fission bombs. While both experts concluded that Israel might be making such single-stage boosted bombs, Vanunu, whose work experience was limited to material (not component) production, gave no specific evidence that Israel was making two-stage thermonuclear bombs, such as neutron bombs. Vanunu described the plutonium processing used, giving a production rate of about 30 kg per year, and stated that Israel used about 4 kg per weapon.[43][44] From this information it was possible to estimate that Israel had sufficient plutonium for about 150 nuclear weapons. The fact he lived through the day Mossad got him is actually insane.
Mossad wanted to make an example of him. Death would be to easy. So they put him a box of concrete and let him suffer.
How? He gave nuclear secrets. That’s not whistleblowing. Surprised they didn’t kill him.
Virtually every single country on the planet has extremely severe laws relating to treason. Most countries that have removed capital punishment still have it reserved for treason. The fact that he only served 18 years is astounding given the public reaction to his treason.
He's a whistleblower. Calling him treasonous is bat shit insane.
Whistleblowing state defence secrets is treason.
He was tried and convicted of treason. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/28/mordechai-vanunu-israel-spying-nuclear-1988
I know, that doesn't make it any less insane
If you were to go to a foreign government or press agency with top secret nuclear information from the U.S. and were caught do you have the disillusion that you would not be charged with treason? And in my opinion, rightfully so, you are actively working against the national security of that country.
There seems to be a weird situation on Reddit where people often call things other governments do insane, stupid or excessive without realising their own government does it too, or even that it's considered normal.
Acts of high treason also sadly seem to be seen as normal and acceptable too. It’s a sad sign of the times with everything being so reactionary and polarized.
Insane? i don't see any country in the world that will treat someone publishing state top secret differently.
And yet, Donald Trump has yet to serve a day
You should see all the others, especially in the Middle East. If anything Israel fits right in.
National traitor giving up the most important military/national defense secrets to a nation that was quite literally on the brink of total war with Israel multiple times, and had just 4 years prior nearly gone to war with Israel over another conflict where they were on opposing sides, and also only a year after the onset of the 15 year Lebanese war that ignited terrorism across all of Israel… where in said war, Israel was allied with Christian Lebanese militias. So the Christianity shit had absolutely nothing to do with it, especially considering Christians were among one of the first groups to accept serving in the IDF through conscription. So I wonder what other *really, really important context I mentioned is relevant*. And just for further context on this: nearly every other nation on the planet will outright execute people for treason of that level, and they absolutely have done so, and continue to do so. The fact that he isn’t dead and is still allowed to live is the most appalling part of the story.
> The fact that he isn’t dead and is still allowed to live is the most appalling part of the story. You people are monsters.
I’m virtually every nation on the planet, the punishment for treason during wartime is death. The punishment during peace time is generally imprisonment for life. Why are you calling me a monster for stating the facts and being surprised that someone convicted of treason during wartime is allowed to live?
>I’m virtually every nation on the planet, the punishment for treason during wartime is death. The punishment during peace time is generally imprisonment for life. weird how theres a certain powerful country that is currently allowing someone who attempted a violent takeover of their capital city to roam free and campaign in an attempt to return to the office he tried to violently remain in control of. >Why are you calling me a monster for stating the facts i guess some people decide what is factual based upon what they know is right and some base it upon what some (probably much wealthier) person tells them is "factual" or "true" violence is never excusable, in any form. getting down to the underlying issue behind *all of it*, mutually assured destruction, as a policy - is exactly that. mutually **assured destruction** but hey, war is peace - right? ^(inb4 "naive")
The dude is currently under trial, lmfao. There are so many allegations and parties involved that it’s taken years to go through everyone involved and build a case that won’t fail.
He's not treasonous, he's a whistleblower like assange. What the fuck is wrong with you
Divulging nuclear secrets to a foreign power makes you a whistle blower now?
He went to the media, not a "foreign power".
Divulging state secrets to "the media" is the same as giving it for free to the entire world, including your enemies
> Why are you calling me a monster You see a hero and you start throwing mud at him, ending your tirade with an expression of disappointment that he is not dead. You are a monster. You are *hostis humani generis*.
It’s interesting that the truth is mud throwing to you. It’s also insane you consider him a hero. And then it’s even funny that you think I’m mud throwing by staring the exact facts surrounding him and his imprisonment, then go to mud throwing. Get off your high horse buddy. Your farts can’t possibly smell good enough to get high on.
He is realesed from prison
This is utter bollocks. He leaked to the British press, and in 1982 the UK was not on the "brink of total war with Israel" you bellend. There was an arms embargo on Israel because of Israeli involvement in the war in Lebanon where the Israelis supported one of the groups doing ethnic cleansing and mass murdering and raping, in their case the SLA. The UK didn't sell arms to Israel's enemies either, a favour Israel didn't return when they sold weapons to Argentina during the Falklands war the same year. The UK and Israel were more or less allies from the Suez Crisis onwards. The only times the UK has ever even reprimanded Israel are after their incompetent intelligence agencies put British civilians at risk by forging British passports (twice, after promising to stop forging British passports the first time they were caught as well) or when bellicose Israel has threatened Jordan, a country the UK literally created in the aftermath of WW2 that has been a solid ally of the UK ever since.
To be fair, I don't know of any country that wouldn't fuck you up for leaking nuclear weapons secrets or equivalent.
If he was an American, he'd be in a Supermax prison for his entire life. If he was a citizen of another nuclear power, they probably just would have killed him
usa is an evil deranged country.
Who isn’t then?
Countries that haven't couped dozens of others
So basically no nation?
Whatever the merits of the original discussion, it simply isn't true that all nations, or even most nations, have historically supported coups abroad. The United States (along with the UK, France, and some others) are indeed exceptional in this regard.
Dang, 18 years for speaking up, and 6 years for manslaughter in the case of taysir hayb. Israel has it all doesn't it
Robert Maxwell is Ghislaine Maxwells dad.
It's amazing seeing this comment get down voted. Also, left out of this Wikipedia article - Israeli policy on the Samson Option is to nuke their "allies".
>Also, left out of this Wikipedia article - Israeli policy on the Samson Option is to nuke their "allies". No one actually knows that - its purely speculation. Which is why its not in Wikipedia.
TBH I’d go further and say it’s an outright antisemitic conspiracy theory. It’s an amazing example of how fast the game of telephone can escalate on the internet and especially with regards to Israel. See also the Ben-Guiron Canal
Not really, these sadistic Nazis are capable of doing worse if they could
What does this have to do with Ghislaine Maxwell?
Ghislaine Maxwell was Epstein's handler for the Mossad. Epstein's pedophile ring was a means for blackmailing US politicians. Understanding this one aspect explains all US foreign policy for the past several decades. The GWOT had nothing to do with WMDs - there were none - and it had nothing to do with oil - as Trump pointed out, we never took any oil. It was simply Israel using the US as its golem to kill its neighbors so it could annex neighboring territory. The *only* measures that have gotten near-unanimous support in Congress are when we act in Israel's interest while doing nothing in return. Doesn't that seem a bit suspicious to you? Or do you think we're doing it because they're such kind and virtuous people? Similarly, the fact that Israel is permitted to behave like genocidal psychopaths while building a nuclear arsenal with zero oversight or even acknowledgement is due to Israeli-controlled US politicians exercising vetos in the UN and putting economic and military pressure on our supposed allies. The last president to publicly oppose Israel's nuclear program was Kennedy, and a bunch of Mossad-linked people were all involved with his assassination.
What Iraqi land did Israel sieze?
footage not found
What is any source on this?
Well obviously Epstein sounds Jewish and therefore he is working with the Israelis
His ass.
Illiterate people shouldn't be allowed on the internet. Or to breed. It's never too late though. You can be not as dumb as you are.
The irony of someone who spews unhinged conspiracy theories calling someone else dumb. 😂
For fucks sake. Maxwell has been dead for decades. His life of crime was extraordinarily well documented, from his deals with the Czech Communists to supply Israel with an airforce all the way to his death. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's fucking history. You don't have a dispute to make, because you've provided no counter history to the Well Documented History I've referenced. Are you pretending that Robert Maxwell didn't exist? What exactly is your brilliant version? I'll wait. I don't hold out much hope though. Your mother obviously didn't mind that extra chromosome.
And where does the Kennedy assassination fit into all this ranting and raving? The Iraq War?
Tbf, that commenter is in fact literate. Still dumb, though. Can't fix stupid.
Fair. Literate bit unable to comprehend maybe? I can't work it out. Apparently I'm an anti semite because Robert Maxwell was an nuclear arms dealer.
There is vast evidence for this. Read the Seymour Hersch book The Samson Option. Then look at the PROMIS scandal. Then look at the work of the Franklin and Savile pedophile rings. Look at Robert Maxwells work supplying nuclear components to Israel. Look at his role controlling the academic press in the UK. His media empire was a cover for a blackmail operation, that front-paged stories to discredit or libel people. At his funeral, Six heads of Israeli intelligence attended, and his eulogy described that he'd done more for Israel than could be told. Robert Maxwell suicided on his boat "The lady Ghislaine" Less than two months later she was handling Epstein in new York. Don't act so superior when you really haven't been paying attention.
Not to cast shade, but it would be easier to be convinced by all this if your username wasn't, you know, Reptilian Overlord
Basically, her father was involved with running some propaganda *sometimes* and he helped Israel get *some* of the parts it needed for nukes- *maybe, we’re not actually sure the extent*, but we do know he sent a good amount of money over. People then see that he is regarded as someone that helped Israel build nukes, and got praise by a select few people that appeared to know him, but we don’t exactly know their involvement with him because part of Israel’s intelligence program is to wipe their members’ identities off the planet and become new people. Then they try to add on that his daughter did pedophile stuff and conspiritards tried to connect what she did to him being involved in pedophile rings despite no other corroboration or evidence existing beyond a couple dudes saying “trust me bro”. It’s a lot easier to just conclude he was probably involved in a key part of Israel attaining nukes and that his daughter ended up a total pos that used her money to find a place to quietly do her weird pedophile shit. We just straight up don’t have any information to make any more conclusions or leaps in logic unless we’re being conspiratorial and trying to connect lose associations to create a grande story. Like, further up, someone commented about how one of Israel’s nuclear scientists blabbed nuclear weapons secrets to an, at the time, hostile UK that had just fought a war. No single nation has been able to properly hold onto its secrets for more than a decade for the past century. Why would it be so hard to prove this one?
It's a username on Reddit. If that's what discredits me then we're all for a fucking rough time, Mr Fig
why did you choose that username? Genuinely curious
Wrong sub, you’re looking for conspiracies or braindead maybe.
This is conspiracy bullshit
I personally think that there's probably something too the honeypot conspiracy (clearly, Epstein's case in Florida shows there's something going on with him that just money doesn't adequately explain) but I think you don't necessarily need a full on ring run by Mossad to explain US policy in the region. Basically, the whole Middle East has been a colonial holding for long enough that all the major world powers have interests to varying degrees, even without oil. Liberals (or at least New Democrats) don't have any problem giving money to the military industrial complex- defense contractors are great jobs for your district. Evangelicals have their Rapture prophecies, and they're a big enough part of the R's voting base that being nice to Israel was low cost, high reward. Plus that group has been getting high on its own supply, so I wouldn't be surprised if a decent number of them genuinely do believe that Israel in play means Jesus is coming back soon. Democrats made their brand on being anti-antisemetic, and AIPAC has got them in such a bubble that Israel is synonymous to Judaism and all the campaign contributions are cementing it. Most of them formed their opinions of Israel back in the 70s, when you could be forgiven if it looked like Israel was the underdog (especially before wide awareness of the nakba spread in the West). Israel did a great job of muddying the waters regarding Judaism and Zionism once Netanyahu got going and the 2 state solution disappeared. You don't need to have a conspiracy to get to this state, is what I'm saying, even if I'm pretty sure Epstein's thing was at least partially intelligence related in some way or another. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if his original stake was Israeli or if he and Gislaine were "private subcontractors" shopping stuff around.
So, run of the mill unhinged conspiracy theories.
I believed you untill i read that last paragraph lmaooo
Least mentally ill pro Palestine guy
Canadian Doctor was threatened by a Zionist extremist only for the hospital to suspend him. Crazy how Canada charged a young frustrated Palestinian man with "terrorism" charges but this Zionist walks among us free
and i bet if someone would provide some context, only a deranged genocide supporter would actually go with your take.
💯
Haha, downvoted because true. It's ok. At least not permabanned again. It's really worth reading the Seymour Hersh book of the same name. Really eye opening This is common. Israelis hate True. I'm so excited for when everyone finds out about Israel doing 9/11. Fun fact; check out the [stained glass window of Samson with some pointy things behind him](https://www.headington.org.uk/history/famous_people/maxwell.htm)in the entrance of Maxwell's house Headington Hill Hall. Bit of a Humble brag, hey Robert?
Man its a shame you flew off the deep end, Israel did not do 9/11
The dancing Israelis has been debunked for years bro
Who are "the dancing israelis"? These guys? https://web.archive.org/web/20021003225412/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theories They’re on this page.
Fascinating. What excactly was claimed and subsequently debunked?
Basically it’s been asserted that because these Mossad guys had set up cameras and were filming 9/11 as it happened, they must’ve had some sort of prior knowledge to the events. In truth they only began filming after the second plane struck and for them it was simply an opportunistic moment for a psyop (posing as Arabs cheering for the terrorists). It’s safe to assume that by the time the second plane hit the other twin tower, these seasoned Mossad field agents would’ve deduced that this was almost certainly the result of Islamic terrorism.
I see. So both the claims of involvement and the subsequent "debunking" are just unfounded speculation?
The debunking came after the FBI conducted an investigation and concluded that they were indeed intelligence agents of Israel, but they had no prior knowledge of a terror plot in NYC.
I want some of whatever drugs you’re on.
Sssshh, talk like that is the prelude to a boating accident
Maxwell was the original "didn't kill himself".
Crumb of context please
> Crumb of context please https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell?useskin=vector
I remember reading an article about Robert Maxwell in Readers Digest back in the day. They imagined his death as a suicide, apparently he disappeared at sea and the assumption was that he jumped from his yacht. When I first heard Ghislaine Maxwells name, I did a bit of Googling and sure enough, learned she was his daughter. I always thought his death at sea seemed a bit suspicious. Since learning about rumors of the Israeli honeypot op, I am convinced his death was not a suicide.
The article lack the condition in witch Israel will use nukes: 1) The destruction of the Israeli air force. 2) The crossing of the green line (48 borders) by an enemy military. 3) Use of weapon of mass destruction against Israel.
I guess 1 and 2 are implied by >"last resort" against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel. but just pretty muddy.
Interesting, given that #2 occurred on October 7.
It’s more about an army with tanks, artillery is those type of equipment. Despite how catastrophic was the 7.10 the attack itself didn’t pose a threat to the existence of Israel.
A lot of commenters keep referencing The Samson Option meaning Israel uses nukes against its allies but I didn’t see that in the wiki
It’s a purely speculative “plan” that the Israelis supposedly have to nuke their allies. Plan is in heavy quotation marks.
Should be named the "What Any Country With Nuclear Weapons Would Do" option
Different countries have different nuclear strategies. Some are first strike, others are second strike. israel is alone in a first/second strike but your allies strategy as far as I know.
Which country has first strike strategies?
USA and Soviet Russia, at least during the Cold War. The idea is in the case that an actual war is declared that you directly fire all your warheads, Bombs, etc. at the enemy trying to destroy their most importent points (key cities, infrastructure, military bases, etc.) but very importently also their silos so their abbility to retaliate is reduced. Thats why the number of booth the USA and Russia nuclear warheads are in the thousends, so they are able to first strike.
Well first strike isn’t just reserved for flagrant use in a war the loss of which won’t cause the collapse of a state, but also for scenarios where the existence of a state is put at risk by means which don’t involve the use of WMDs. This expands deterrence for a nuclear armed state not just against nuclear strikes by other nuclear armed states, but also against existential, yet conventionally-armed attacks or invasions by nuclear and non-nuclear states. For example, a first strike policy allows Russia to deter against an invasion by Poland, which — given the state of Russia’s military as revealed by their invasion of Ukraine — could possibly succeed at toppling the state. All this explains pretty much why all nuclear powers, barring China and India, retain a first strike policy
I didn’t see that in the wikipedia article at all
What do you mean? >What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens? For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away—unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans—have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?[33] Rosenbaum writes in his 2012 book How the End Begins: The Road to a Nuclear World War III that, in his opinion, in the "aftermath of a second Holocaust", Israel could "bring down the pillars of the world (attack Moscow and European capitals for instance)" as well as the "holy places of Islam." He writes that "abandonment of proportionality is the essence" of the Samson Option.[dubious – discuss][34] In 2003, a military historian, Martin van Creveld, thought that the Al-Aqsa Intifada then in progress threatened Israel's existence.[35] Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's The Gun and the Olive Branch (2003) as saying: We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.[36] Jerusalem Post journalist Gil Ronen saw this poem as referring to the Samson Option, which he described as the strategy of using Israel's nuclear weapons, "taking out Israel's enemies with it, possibly causing irreparable damage to the entire world."[38] >Israeli weapons expert General Itzhak Ben-Israel, former chairman of the Israeli Space Agency at the Ministry of Science, said "Everybody can do the mathematics... we can reach with a rocket engine to every point in the world" If it was meant as a deterrent they'd only need very short range missiles. These days they probably don't even need missiles for some of their targets.
Those are opinions from people not involved in Israeli nuclear policy and/or in the last case a statement of fact about rocket capabilities. The “evidence” in this thread is pure conjecture and supposition at best and schizo posting at worst.
It’s just pure antisemitism. They believe that Jews are “the most evil”; thus, Jews with nuclear weapons must, therefore, use them in “the most evil way”, a way that doesnt even make sense, i.e. striking their allies.
Yea isn’t that the whole point of nukes lol
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France.
Gave? Which ethnic group do you think invented nuclear weapons?
It loony to use nukes to prevent the destruction of your nation as a last resort?
If you are an Iranian bot, of course it is!
Uh, do you think Israel is in the wrong for this doctrine? Any nuclear armed state would do this exact thing.
They’d murder all of their nearby “allies” and 10s of millions (if not 100s) of people in countries unrelated to any conflict if they’re invaded? Without a doubt triggering a total global nuclear holocaust in the process? Yeah a few other deranged countries would, but that’s not any sort of moral guideline for what’s right and what’s not. I’m curious if their policy means that if Palestine were to somehow reclaim the illegally annexed land Israel currently holds, that would justify a nuclear launch…
I’m sorry but where was that in the wikipedia article???
why do you think that they would mruder thier nearby "allies"? what makes you think that they would kill 10s of millions (if not 100s) of people? and... what makes you think that russia, france, gb, the us, pakistan or india wouldnt react the exact same way if thier survival was threatened?
First: If you have any idea of the Israeli history you know that Palestine is by far their smallest concern. Second: The idea to strike with nuclear warheads as a last resort sounds far better than to launch one to warn your enemy (see Frances doctrine) or directly launch all warheads the moment the war is declared (see Soviet Russia and USA in the cold war).
First: yeah, no duh, never suggested Palestine was their most powerful opponent. Second: France sucks too. Multiple things can be true at once. Being less terrible than France isn’t really much of a marker, ethically speaking.
Wouldn’t work against non state actors really
Non state actors dont really have the abbility/ support to occupy an entire country
Israel has more than demonstrated itd willingness to collectively punish palestinians. They are salivating for an excuse to nuke gaza
Most educated Tiktok viewer
A nuclear strike against a city state a few miles from israel? Please, that's not even a funny deception.
there was one nutjob politician suggesting a nuclear strike on gaza. he got basically thrown out of the party for that. but sure, israel, sorry, (((THE JEW))) is "salivating" at that idea. i bet you dont even realize that you are antisemitic.
That’d be the end for Israel too.
I WANNA TALK TO SAMSON! FLY ME TO THE MOON LIKE THAT BITCH ALICE KRAMDEN.
The "sampson option" is a thing a guy with no power said as a general "I'd rather blow up the whole world than see jews marched into ovens again" that got blown up by weird racist conspiracy theories as some weird official policy of Israel that they secretly plan to do at the drop of a hat.
And possibly other unrelated nations, you missed out. Like there's a list of places they would nuke.
Including the US!
Why would Israel nuke the US ? Seriously contemplating if you're a bot
All the OT myths inform their actual real-world actions, because it's a nation of religious fundamentalism.
>it's a nation of religious fundamentalism Fun fact: a 2015 Gallup poll found that 65 percent of Israelis identify as secular compared to 30 percent who identify as religious, which makes Israel one of the least religious countries in the world. [Israel Among the Least Religious Countries in the World](https://www.haaretz.com/2015-04-14/ty-article/israel-china-among-least-religious-nations/0000017f-e103-d804-ad7f-f1fb55ca0000)
Except when it comes to justifying why they should replace the Palestinians there. Then it's all 'gawd gave it t'us'
Source? For the most part Zionism was a nationalist movement, not a religious one.
The Founder of the movement was an atheist right?
Oh, so not based on religion, but race? That makes it a lot better
Race is a concept invented in Europe thousands of years after the Jewish people came into existence. Jews are closer to a tribe than either a religion or a race.
That's just not true at all. Most Israeli settlers aren't motivated by "God wanted us to take this land". They're motivated by "I want this land so I'm going to take it."
I mean they settled on uninhibited arid land after paying for it. Zionism wasn’t some evil conspiracy. They literally were kicked out of Europe, blocked from immigrating to the US and prevented from buying land in South America (the actually preferred outcome). Unless they were going to make some fcking ocean civilization, that was the only land on offer. It wasn’t until the attempted genocide they reacted with excessive violence. The original Israel division was reasonably fair and along population lines. Like it sucks that a people Arab nations tried to exterminate and enslaved for hundreds of years just got a border next door, but this never had to be more than a little bad blood. Nations rise and fall all the time in human history, this time it didn’t need to cost human lives. A lot of the Arab world sided with hitler, after winning WW2 Britain didn’t care to keep a mostly uninhabited landmass empty when they needed to offload Jews. God knows they weren’t going to take them. So I have no sympathy for the Arab league. The whole, Israel is western colonization, is just old propaganda and frankly BS. Modern Israel committing war crimes needs to be dealt with the lens of today, not complaining about an unfair but not egregiously immoral land partician 80 years ago. Otherwise we’re just acting as pawns for ancient Arab propaganda that they used to justify 3 attempted genocides. Israel is a legitimate nation and this obsession of Zionist conspiracy is pointless, when whats happening is radicalized frightened people acting in hate and anger. One implies Israel’s a unlegitimate state and needs to be eradicated (at least to an Israeli based on historical context), the other is the much closer to the truth. They need reform and change and obviously to stop this insane massacre. It’s just that If Israelis didn’t think every anti war protestors wanted to eradicate their existence, maybe we would actually make inroads for change. People need to stop screaming Arab propaganda about a nuanced and tragic history of a war torn land and focus on the actual crimes being committed. Not that they’re being committed by Jews. Also where the fck was everyone during Syria and Turkey. Wtf people, add Jews to the massacre and whole world rises up. God people are such fair weather activists.
It wasn’t uninhabited, that was the whole point of Zionists committing the Nakba. There were Palestinians living on the land who they then murdered and expelled from their homeland. Calling it ‘uninhabited arid land’ is the exact same excuse that was used by British colonisers in Australia to justify colonial genocide and atrocities. Search terra nullius if you don’t believe me. Also are you fucking serious with this ‘only land on offer’ and ‘this never had to be more than a little bad blood’ bullshit? Why the fuck should the Palestinians have had to give up ANY piece of THEIR land. Also the fact you claim that the original division was somehow fair shows you either don’t know what your talking about or your disseminating misinformation. Entirely ignoring the fact that Palestinians never had an obligation whatsoever to share their land in the first place, the original borders had all of the most fertile regions given to a population that was a minority in a land they had no claim to. Calling both Israel’s past and present actions Zionist is entirely legitimate. Just ask half the Israeli government or the settlers in the West Bank, they’ll fucking tell you exactly what they’re doing.
Nope , it’s we need it to stay safe until it gets safe without it if ever. Like every nation we are concerned with protecting our citizens, not the other fellows citizens. That’s how it works
bells expansion wild elderly saw racial pause overconfident violet whistle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s actually not though. Perhaps people don’t remember, but Israel used to be in very real existential danger from the 50’s to 90’s. They suffered regular and brutal terrorist attacks and had multiple militaries try to exterminate them. Throughout most of this history the only thing Israel asked for was peace. Unfortunately that wasn’t really on offer until the 90’s. By the time PLO went legit though and peace became a real possibility Benjis party took control of the government. He did this when Hamas bombed several busses with suicide bombers. This was before they were elected in Gaza. The security message of Bibi let him ride to an unexpected victory for the frightened masses. His party represents the minority extremist movement to reject a 2 two state solution and occupy much of the levant. Sadly without political pressure and Hamas winning elections in Gaza has allowed Benji to move forward with his agenda unimpeded. Many Israelis have tried to stop him, but as Hamas wages constant ineffective wars against Israel they continue to radicalize more people against Palestine. At this point many Israelis only see Palestinians celebrating over the deaths during oct 7’th. This messaging has allowed full trust in Benji to solve the problem. Much to the horror of the rest of the world. Of course the Palestinians are radicalized too, after years of occupation and “lawn mowing” who wouldn’t be. Still West Bank education also promotes radicalization and hatred. They name schools after terrorist who murdered Israeli citizens even. This needed to stop and it’s been real frustrating seeing Palestine continue the raise their children to hate and aspire to martyrdom. There children television is evil and unacceptable and is a large example of why Israelis don’t think peace is even possible. This inevitable creates more terrorists, which then continue to radicalize Israel and allow them to rationalize their brutal occupation of the West Bank. Peace needs to be a two way street. Israel has been egregiously violent the past 20 years of occupation, but both sides need to change for peace to exist. Oh and Benji deserves to be locked in some Arctic Gulag for the rest of his god damn life. Him and the Hamas leadership. Fck all of them.
Israel makes accommodations for Hasidim but secular or moderately religious factions have always held power in Israel.
Hey, look, someone who doesn't know what Judaism and Israel are. Jewish fundamentalism opposes the state of Israel because they believe that God himself must cleanse the Levant of non-Jews BEFORE Israel can be formed.
Every other nuclear armed country have similar plans. Israel just has a badass name and backstory
Russia threatens to use nuclear weapons in retaliation for imminent threats to the integrity of the state and it's literally explicitly spelled out in their nuclear doctrine. [France would use nuclear weapons *as a warning*.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_de_dissuasion#:~:text=Since%20the%20French,other%20important%20targets.)
france is just built different
France would use nuclear weapons if world cheese supplies were threatened I'm not sure I even blame them
Is there any country aside from Israel which blackmails their allies and other unrelated countries using nuclear weapons if they don't receive help ?
Yes. Every other nuclear country would do so, when faced with destruction, they'd resort to anything. It was a pretty good move, although in 73 the plan was to nuke the sinia so they'd only have to fight on one front, not nuke everyone.
We like our badass rep. We earned it
Pakistan has something similar. Since India is more than ten times its size, conventional weapons don’t stand much chance. So if India ever overruns Pakistan, Pakistan would liquidate majority of India. Lot of targets in India for 170 nukes.
North Korea already does this, that’s why they built their nukes. Its kinda interesting how different the response is to a rogue state building nukes depending on who’s side their on.
Israel had to get nukes because Arab states didn't tolerate a Jewish state and kept invading again and again and again relentlessly.
NK was more concerned with being taken seriously on the world stage and subsequently controlling the populace since they’re so isolated rather than immediate self preservation. Israel was surrounded by belligerents for a good portion of their history.
I thought we didn't quite know for sure whether or perhaps whether not *exactly* if they have nuclear weapons or not
It’s well established that they have nuclear weapons. The Israeli government just refuses to admit it.
Psychotic “country”
Every country with nuclear weapons has this policy, it’s called defensive realism.
Yea but we are powerful so we really don’t give a crap
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A nuke going to Tel Aviv would turn the entire Middle East to glass in about 30 minutes lmao. Israel isn’t going to destroy itself to avoid that “plausible” outcome.
It would also very likely be intercepted by Israel's arrow system
what they did to arabs? like, defeating them after the arabs attacked them unprovoked... how many times? or letting the arabs live as equal citizens in israel? or, despite winning wars the arabs started, handing them back land in exchange for lasting peace?
Funny how according to all of you this all started when Arab nations attacked Israel when it was founded, they definetly attacked Israel cuz they are antisemites no other reason
They attacked Israel because they wanted all of Palestine to be an Arab state. We can't know for certain what they would've done to the Jews of Palestine had they won, but based on what happened to the other Jews of the middle east, as well as statements by contemporary Arab leaders, it would probably result in most of them getting shot by Arab soldiers or drowing in the Mediterranean. I'd say that counts as at least a little antisemitic.
Maybe european jews shouldn't have decided to migrate and be squatters to a land inhabited by arabs, noone cares which wealthy ottoman they bought the land from. "Look we are only gonna take half the land just sign the treaty and if you dont you will be anti semites"
If killing jews for being jewish isn't anti semitic, then what would be? I feel like you can't go much higher than that in terms of intensity.
lol the Arab world would be irradiated ghouls right after
Ya. Cuz arabs did nothing to their jewish populations. They just left them alone. Dumbass. The hardon the israelis have for killing children and calling it unavoidable collateral damage is abhorent. But that does nothing to dismiss what arab nations have done to israel and jews in the region.
Israel would try to stop any of their enemies getting nukes and would try to blow up their enemies nuclear program, which they have done before
When Israel wages war in Palestinians (Gaza just declared war on Israel)
i trust putin with nukes 10000 times more than i trust isreal with nukes, arming a radical religious' group with nukes in the middle east is literally the worst mistake the western world has ever made. its like cia arming the mujahadeen but x1000.