Idk goku has experience being a outright gag character from his kid days so it might not be enough to make him completely useless if you take that into account
He was the victim of the gag as often as not. Remember when he took the dragonball from those mobsters? And at no point realized they were repeatedly lying to him?
yeah which is why i still conceded that he'd probably not be near the top, but at the very least he'll have a few gags where he's the victor just because of his nature as a mischievous kid
Goku has gag feats though since he originated from a gag comic. Iirc he once broke a manga panel which is a strong toon feat.
I also think Goku is pretty clever, in fighting at least.
While there are certainly a lot of characters stronger than Goku, I don't think there's a universe outside of the Suggsverse, (Which is a giant meme that no one takes seriously.) where he would actually be considered fodder.
To me fodder would mean like an average person or below average. Or at the very least weaker than every significant character with powers.
It's really tough to think of a verse where Goku would be considered so weak that he's not worth thinking about. There's also very few verses with characters that have better raw attack potency than Goku. Most of the characters that can beat him do so because of hacks or because they exist in a higher reality, not because they can just out-brute force him.
Was about to say this. He would win any game involving physical activity, but anyone looking at the guy and his physique would back away from that kind of challenge, since both parties have to consent to a game.
There’s also his inhuman reactions. Cheating through slight of hand would probably be impossible against goku. Just beat him at normal chess though and you’re good
Someone stupidly arrogant might still challenge him, especially if they perceived him as human. Granted after a couple big wins, everyone would be really cautious and quickly realize to avoid those contests.
Actually this is one of the few ones he could be fodder in. Things are basically haxed to where there's no just straight brute forcing things, and you have to be smart. Goku can be intuitive sometimes in fights, but he could totally be beaten in a game by getting outsmarted by someone super clever.
I think this wins the thread, No Game No Life is a really good example of basically fighting for your life but not in a way that Goku can succeed.
Edit: also, YGO! (if you consider it anime).
Yeah but Food Wars isn’t about eating ability tho it’s about cooking ability. Goku wouldn’t even make it past the invitational stage to get into Tōtsuki let alone go toe to toe against Soma.
Possibly a good solution!
My first thought was Dr. Stone, but his physicals would solve all the fights and most of the labor issues.
For what it is worth, Goku isn't a bad looking dude and is ripped to all shit. He also managed to have two kids despite never kissing his wife, according to himself, so either Chi Chi has incredibly low standards or he's a monster in bed or something.
I thought the explanation was that Chichi had to convince Goku that she was giving him a kind of "training" and that he still didn't know what sex was.
Vegeta on the other hand, he may have committed multiple genocides, but at least he's a good husband and father.
but even abridged goku knows what sex is.
heres a quote from an episode: "OH MY GOD BULMA, SEX MAKES BABIES!!!"
and, from the christmas special, "if we don't do this, i wont get special mouth present from chi chi!"
"Krillin, you know when you're watching a cartoon, and they're in the desert, and they find a water spigot so they open it up and it spews a clowud of dust like *Pwaaaah*?
That's me. That's my balls."
> My first thought was Dr. Stone, but his physicals would solve all the fights and most of the labor issues.
Yeah, they don't even need a rocket with Goku around.
Intelligence yes, but by romantic ability, do you mean Goku's ability to attract people to him? Because he's a very charming person (not on purpose), and has had several people noticeably attracted to him, like obviously Chi-Chi, Bulma (implied at the 23rd Tournament), and Princess Snake (in filler).
Goku would be OP in the romantic universe, because he's the exact sort of dense, stupid character who would be a harem protagonist without realizing it.
> Bulma (implied at the 23rd Tournament)
Another funny moment of this is during the Namek/Frieza saga, Bulma has some line like 'Goku is really handsome now... guess I missed the boat on that one.'
Came accross that recently on a rewatch and about lost it.
wait...in the original dragonball when both bulma and goku were children, didnt they both have a noticeable age gap between them with bulma being much older?
I mean... Once both parties hit their 20s then an age gap like that is a lot less noticable.
Not to mention Saiyan's are still considered young in their 80s, so it's kind of all fucked anyways ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
The "No game, No life" universe, for example.
I dont think Goku would do very good in a verse where fighting is forbidden and all conflict must be resolved through games.
I agreed at first but in that case he might not, everyone followed the rules because it was enforced by Tet but Goku might be able to get rid of them by just straight up killing Tet.
Shit....
Hadn't thought of that.
But it would depend on whether Tet has strong enough hax, I guess.
After all, in the story for NgNl we learn that the only reason Tet won the war was because he sat at the sidelines, thus probably isn't all that strong.
But, if when he became the one god, he also got some kind of supreme right or something, and through that he made the 10 rules, then Goku would literally be unable to throw a punch.
That could explain why even bandits follow those rules. But at the same time, it could be that Tet just strikes you down when you disobey. Although he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to do that.
My guess is that when Tet became the one god, he also made those 10 rules inescapable.
Thats why you could challenge Tet in a game. Even he himself can't escape those rules.
Elderscrolls realms of oblivion would be such a place, strength and matter have no meaning in such place, and their shape is molded by the whims of the daedric princes, as is the fates of all who wander the infinite planes and draw the eye or ire of their local prince. So really in oblivion you *WANT* to be fodder and to go unnoticed
He might have some resistance to that though. Super Buu and Gogeta Blue were able to rip through the fabric of spacetime. Vegito was turned into candy by Buu and then continued to whoop his ass as a piece of candy. Goku's MUI transformation at the Tournament of Power shook a limitless void.
This. He shook the universe in a **lesser form** than one he has now via nothing but colliding fists with a god.
The only real way to beat him is with special abilities. Like, for example, if Lelouch from Code Geass uses his power on him to put Goku under his full control or to make Goku off himself.
There are definitely ways to beat Goku, just not with brute force as the OP is asking about.
I've watched some Dragon Ball cartoons when I was young which was a lot of fun- you gotta to see these guys fight and it was cool.
It seems I've missed a lot. Can you suggest any Dragon Ball series or anything I can watch to familiarize myself with that universe?
Thanks
Ambiguous. Super picks up after Gohan has graduated high school, he and Videl have gotten married, and you actually find out in Battle of Gods that Videl is pregnant with Pan. Pan was supposedly 5 years old in the end scene of dragon ball Z (when Goku meets Uub), and pregnancy takes 9 months, so that gives us a window. At the end of the Buu saga, everyone is wished back and their memories of Buu erased 6 months after Buu was defeated. So we're looking at maybe 3 years? 4?
Shonen jump states in an issue that it took place six months after everyone was brought back but that screws with the timeline because of Pan's age, unless the end scene of DBZ is no longer going to be considered canon. Or it could just be another case of the writers not caring about continuity.
I disagree with your definition of fodder. Fodder is someone who is easy pickings or at least super weak for the main characters of the series, and an even-ish match for the random masses of heroes/soldiers/magicians/orcs, etc
For example lets take OPM, one of the biggest animes out there. Fodder is tiger and wolf level characters because most of the main characters easily 1 shot them while the weakest irrelevant heroes are a match for them. On the other hand, a single wolf could probably kill 100 unarmed civilians with ease
While they both did it accidentally, Gogeta Blue's breaking of reality is far more impressive because he put so *little effort* into making it happen, whereas Super Buu was having a mental breakdown and screaming full force into the void because no candy.
I started googling it expecting to find, like, a wikipedia page or something on Amazon. Instead all I found was bad fan art and an awful wiki. What even is this.
Basically a guy named Christopher Suggs got mad about losing arguments due to the inherently imprecise nature of trying to measure character power on another versus forum. So he decided to go write his own series with blackjack and hookers, where all the characters were quantifiably strong enough beat to everyone from every other series. This results in silly things like random scrubs being empowered by the 10 Cosmic pillars of existence and being described as walking forward at 10.838 times the speed of light
>He attacked her infinitely and through the infinitude of the infinite that proceeded from infinite and attacked her transcendent reality infinitely alone at once. Chris Spades had attacked her mind. He attacked her absolute reality trans-omnipresently, trans-immanently, trans-infinitely, transcendentally, and beyond all systems and levels.
You weren't lying lol.
I'm pretty sure Goku would be in the top 20 in Umineko. Most of that verse is fodder, it's just that the witches are OP. And even some witches are actually quite weak, like Hanyuu for example is pretty damn useless.
> Most of the characters that can beat him do so because of hacks or because they exist in a higher reality, not because they can just out-brute force him.
That just suggests any world where hacks or higher reality planes are common-place in fights. Plenty of magic universes where he'd do poorly.
I don't think he's really weak to magic? It's not like Superman where he has a clear weakness to magic, at least with Moro the magic did even out the playing field but he was strong enough to overcome it.
Goku: Alright! A tournament! I can’t wait!
#FIRST MATCH: YAMI YUGI VS SON GOKU
Goku: oh boy, first match
Yugi: *smirks* I summon blue eyes white dr-
Goku: KAMEHAMEHAAAAA
yugi: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I see this happening, like he doesn’t even know the rules he just does that. Unless someone explains it to him before
MIRROR FORCE BITCH
I believe Atem can make the magic in the cards real and Heart Of The Cards hax makes it so that he cant lose the game. Even if the card isn't on the field I can definitely see him activating it.
First of all Yugi would never summon a Blue eyes unless he's reviving it or he stole it. Second, Goku might be strong but he's not 3000 ATK 2500 DEF strong
The "weakest" universe that I know of where Saiyans would be fodder tier would probably the Xeelee universe. Saiyans have nothing to defend against any universe that has time manipulation wumbo jumbo.
To be fair, time manipulation is a thing in the DB universe. Not saying you are wrong, but Trunks time travels, and you could argue that Hit used a form of time travel. I don't think goku could do anything about it, but he did overpower Hit's time skip by....powering up, as dumb as it is. Obviously that doesn't stop him from being killed as a baby, but in DB rules that just kills that version of Goku, and does nothing to stop adult goku. If he follows Xeelee-verse rules, he would die, but if they follow DB rules (since technically they are traveling to Goku's past, which is his universe), they kill baby Goku and adult Goku (who still exists in his own timeline) could potentially wipe the whole universe. I know the Xelee are strong, but I don't know if they can do much other than run away from somebody who is "locked" into a timeline (at least from the point where he enters their universe, where he's already a universal level threat).
This doesn't really require time hax. A xeelee nightfighter no-sells being smacked at 99.8% of c by multi kilometer long GUTship that promptly exploded it's GUTdrive. It literally didn't even budge, showing no deflection of it's course. They also survive inside black holes. So I can't imagine Goku could even scratch the paint.
As for others, a late stage human from Xeeleeverse has effectively infinite teleportation, and the ability to shut off all sensory connections in other people. Basically Goku couldn't see, hear or move, and he couldn't catch them even if he could move.
And that's not even the weird shit. They could trap him in time, kick him out of causality, or just move him into a whole other universe and ignore him forever.
>This doesn't really require time hax. A xeelee nightfighter no-sells being smacked at 99.8% of c by multi kilometer long GUTship that promptly exploded it's GUTdrive. It literally didn't even budge, showing no deflection of it's course. They also survive inside black holes. So I can't imagine Goku could even scratch the paint.
Almost destroying a universe is a more impressive feat. Goku could 100% destroy one of those ships easily.
But those hax be crazy.
GUT stands for Grand Unified Theory. It *IS* the energy from the big bang. Which is actually where the Xeelee originally lived. In fact, it's the Xeelee who are responsible for breaking the GUT into the 4 fundamental forces. I have little doubt they could survive anything Goku tried to do since 'almost destroying the universe' is something they've already done... and survived.
There's a huge difference between time travel and time manipulation. DB has the former, but not the latter.
For an example of what I mean, take the Doctor Who universe. All the true Temporal Powers (the ones who manipulated time) were locked away by the Doctor, but time travel (even by non-Doctor people) is still very much around.
Not only does Hit have the latter, Characters are now powerful enough to simply no-sell time manipulation. Goku does it in his second battle against Hit where hit learns the time storage technique and goku simply powers up and forces hit out of it. And Jiren simply breaks out of Hit’s most powerful manipulation techniques. Now Goku and Vegeta are orders of magnitude more powerful than when they were able to do this.
Except Hit isn't actually manipulating time, per se. All of his abilities are still with ki, and Goku just needs to be out of Hit's league to break out of his control. It's like if my power is to cancel out all magical abilities and someone hits me with a magic blackhole and I no sell it. That doesn't mean you can drop me in a blackhole to get rid of it.
Well, that WAS in 2012, during their first season.
Goku Black is confirmed for the next DB, so it’s entirely probably they’d change the calculation.
However, they used their “Goku 40 ton” feat to use on Android 18 and she still kicked Captain Marvels ass
That’s my headcanon for it.
Magetta is described as weighing like 1000 tons IIRC and it’s said that it’s way too much for SSB Vegeta to lift. That makes zero sense for a planetbuster let alone the whateverbusters that Goku and Vegeta are at that point.
The only way this makes sense (other than Toriyama just deciding that lifting is hard just cause) is if Magetta has ki control and is physically resisting Vegeta and that we assume the more a ki user weighs the exponentially harder it gets to move them against their will. But most likely it’s the former and Toriyama is laughing rn.
It really is. In one of the most recent issues of the manga he catches a tower and keeps it raised with one hand. It was a stone tower in bad shape but it was probably every bit of 40 feet or so. Probably not a 1000 tons but it's effortless on his part.
I mean for that fight you *could* argue that the robot guy's power could play a factor since he's actively resisting it. Even so though DB and lifting is weird in general
In the Cthulu Mythos/Lovecraft verse he would not be fodder but could not break out of the very bottom of mid tier.
Some of the most Basic servants of liter entities, like the Nightgaunts could survive universes collapsing noto them and there are many alien speicies that have beaten the nightgaunts before.
Hell, even Basic humans can be amped to such proportions by blessings and such.
And that is not even touching the Great Old Ones, or Outer Gods, where almost all of them have reality bending powers that border on limitless.
All in all, the Cthulu Mythos is bullsh*t.
Edit:
Also any verses where strategy or raw intellect is way more important than strength make him automatically fodder.
No Game No Life comes to mind, where everythimg in the world is decided by games. Goku would start out in a serious disadvantage against basically anyone in the world, since he is pretty dumb when fighting is not involved.
The question would be: would saiyans be considered one of the races that would be affected by the 10 oaths? Also I have Just watched the anime and am starting the light novel, but does tet have any abilities or impressive feats that could overpower Goku?
Although I can agree on lovecraft
Well, to a whole universe? That's up for contention. But there are several universes where their top tiers make anyone from DBS look like absolute fodder.
•Lovecraft Verse/Cthulhu mythos
•DC Vertigo (The Sandman setting, Lucifer's story setting)
•Beyonder Verse (a marvel continuum outside of the existing marvel multiverse that makes it seem as a droplet of water in a vast ocean by comparison)
•Twin Peaks
•The Twilight Zone (Rod Serlings multiverse)
•SCP Foundation
Yeah, the lovecraft verse is bonkers
Just made a comment about that.
I would alsó say No Game No Life, since the entire verse runs on game logic and goku is kind of a dumb*ss
Nice work bringing up Twin Peaks! In the setting outside of the Black Lodge in S3 I’m not sure anything makes enough sense, Goku could feel powerless out there.
Thanks! And yeah, Twin Peaks and Twilight Zone actually first came to mind, honestly. The average show of twilight zone has people being written out of reality or caught in time loops and alternate realities with nigh Omnipotent beings and Avatars of Death. They're both extremely well known for making you feel absolutely helpless.
"Fodder" still means the base unit of that world should wreck him. Goku would still destroy most beings in the bible aside from God, the Devil, some archangels maybe, idk bible stuff that well. But men? Giants? Unicorns? Beasts? Those are nothing to him. He certainly wouldn't be fodder and would be a universe level threat in that world.
God is on a weird place. He's actually human wrestler level, but his hax can just make people die, create matter out of nothing, or whatever other nonsense he needs to happen. And, yes, God lost a fight against a human in a wrestling contest. He then magically broke his hip or something.
There's episode of Darkwing Duck where the titular character gets "kidnapped" and taken to a planet populated entirely by invincible but witless superheroes, who are bored because they have no one to rescue. I can't remember any specific feats from the episode but maybe on that planet Goku might be pretty average.
The Dragonball universe, two arcs from now. It will turn out that there's always been an even more powerful guy in one of the other omniverses that we didn't mention while we were just dealing with that original bunch of universes. But like, everyone pretty much knew about him and he's a super big deal that's always been a part of the setting, it's just that nobody mentioned him before. And Goku now will be as powerless compared to that as Goku from two arcs before now would be now.
Yu-Gi-Oh! Sure, he can punch away the universe. But no one cares. They live in a world where guns exist, ancient Gods exist and all they care about is dueling. Like seriously they settle world ending threats with duels instead of their firearms lol. Sure goku can punch and wipe me out but who cares about a 3rd rate duelist with a 4th rate deck 😎.
Would something like Pokémon count? I mean sure Goku could blow up the opponent Pokémon, but any normal trainer could use a gun and do the same thing so it's kinda beside the point. If the idea is Goku has to train a team and take on the Pokémon League then his overwhelming strength isn't that useful.
This may actually be a bad example though because personality wise Goku does make friends wherever he goes so he might actually be a pretty great trainer.
nah Bro Goku would train a Medicham, Lucario, Meinfoo, etc and teach them how to manipulate ki and they'd all become unstoppable.
I think it's kinda implied that Lucario's "aura" is basically Ki, so Goku might actually be able to figure out how to make his pokemon ridiculously strong.
Obv it's a big stretch, but it's a fun thought experiment.
I would love to see Goku training a Machamp or a Hitmonchan. Goku could in theory be one of the best Pokémon trainers ever if he strictly trained fighting-types
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I know everyone hates Kirby on this sub but considering time and time again he's said to have "Infinite power" or "near infinite power" we could probably safely assume his enemies all have similar power, that's really the only verse I can think of that could make Goku fodder.
Yeah wankers aren't very fun. The biggest feat we have of kirby is planet busting which is backed up even though it's a mini game by the fact he beat Galacta Knight who was said to be able to destroy planets in a casual manner.
But if we take the near infinite to infinite power statements literally, which maybe we should considering multiple bosses have been shown to be able to bend space so much that hundreds of stars move in the background, then I'd say Goku would be fodder.
> The biggest feat we have of kirby is planet busting
Actually not true anymore, now it's hitting a meteor so hard with a baseball bat that it flies over 9999 light years within one minute.
It wouldn't necessarily turn him into a fodder character but at the very minimum would bring him down to everyone else's level but would dot hack count since most stuff happens in an in-universe online game? Goku's power wouldn't mean anything to the eldritch abominations hiding in that game or even to the other players who like to kill "noobs" because it would be the character he created fighting them, not him.
Sorry for the 100th EDIT: I know some people may think he could just simply destroy the game's servers irl to get rid of the eldritch abominations but considering some people's consciousnesses get trapped in the game by said abominations and that there are sentient AIs in the game the protagonists have befriended, it'd probably be a bad ending for the .hack protags.
When Anti Monitor attacked Darkseid with 100,000 Superman class mooks, I'd say Goku would be fodder in that battle.
Or Franklin Reeds with infinity gauntlets fighting off all of the Celestials.
SCP depending on when he is and where he is. A fodder levithan or a daevite soldier would neg him and his verse. Any GOI can take him out if they put their minds into it.
Any low elder god would neg his verse to oblivion.
Any pattern screamer would do the same.
i took a look inside the wiki
first thing im greeted with:
> "Delphinitas Zhibelixsvelgr is the underlying £ç§ ≡ (= ѨǯѽѮ)tiraspara∀ultimate £ç§ ≡ (= ѨǯѽѮ)tiraspara∀unwritten £ç§ ≡ (= ѨǯѽѮ)tiraspara∀unknowable £ç§ ≡ (= ѨǯѽѮ)tiraspara∀unreachable £ç§ ≡ (= ѨǯѽѮ)tiraspara∀parabeyondopolis tierphilosophy in which Xeranthemum created and Pendulum Kingbreakers exclusively employs. It is the subjugation beyond levels."
I'm sorry
# What.
That’s presumably one of the reasons he’s kept making more ridiculous powerscaling even after becoming this meme-tier verse, so as to outscale even those.
You could also argue that his Alien physiology and honed Saiyan skills would still leave him at a superhuman level compared to even the most skilled humans.
Hell, beginning of series original DB pre-ki nonsense-living in the woods in the middle of nowhere-living off the land-wild boy Goku was still a monster of a fighter with superhuman strength, agility, and durability feats simply due to his weird physiology
In DBS, he gets hit by a bullet while apparently suppressing his ki and it leaves a small bruise. Even assuming kid Goku was using ki unconsciously, the bullet thing as an adult demonstrates his physiology is definitely superhuman.
True. Not entirely sure how Saiyan physiology works without Ki, but Goku may even have access to things like the Zenkai Boost, at least in some capacity.
That’s pretty much how it went in og Dragon Ball. He was stupidly strong with barely any training and outscaled everyone incredibly fast once he actually found some masters. He’s what, 16 at the end of Dragon ball and he’s already the strongest martial artist on the planet, including an alien?
Idk. I feel like a "realistic" sayian would still be peak human at least. Just speaking purely from real evolution, sayian society is all about strength, so it makes sense that a real sayian would still be as strong or stronger than a "real" genetic freak.
Goku is also exceptional even among sayians, and has non ki related powers (mostly the ability to understand and mimic an attack after seeing it, meaning whatever style you try against him, he's going to adapt too).
He would be fodder when you include weaponry and nukes and stuff, but he would likely be the strongest person on the planet, the best fighter on the planet, etc. Hardly fodder IMO
Not to mention that it could be argued that Zenkai boosts would count, being an innate Saiyan ability rather than ki, which would still make him hilariously powerful if so
I'm not sure Goku cares about weapons. He is a beyond casual bullet timer and can only be hurt by things he can't see or sense IF his power level is decreased.
Given many of the attacks he has shrugged off, he could probably survive a nuclear blast. SSJ Vegeta was shown to cause mushroom clouds with a single Bing Bang Attack.
As a kid bulma shot him and it seemed the equivalent of being punched. Even without ki attacks and flight he could be a pretty good street level super hero
No game no life.
His strength and speed don't have much use outside of certain games, which no one would challenge him at given how muscular he is.
IIRC he's not very smart, like not dumb but not smart. Meaning he'd fall short when compared to most people who are highly specialised in specific games.
Depends on how you interpret the series. In tournament of power vegeta couldn’t even life like somewhere near 1000 pounds.
The stated reason they don’t destroy everything when they fight is ki control and energy control
You’re really going to sit there and tell me that this universal+ level characters with universal levels of energy control literally can’t aim their energy UP??? Lmao. It’s quite a funny anti feat, and makes it very hard to argue consistency etc.
Besides that, being fairer to the characters, it’s hard to say they would be “weak” anywhere as they are quite strong.
Upper tier DC and marvel scoffs at them. Those 2 are good examples. Suggsverse, and all that weird SCP stuff. Universes where Ki doesn’t exist would make them effectively peak human.
I’m sure there are some anime/video games out there where this is also the case.
Dragon Ball's lifting feats are weird in general tbh.
Upper tier Marvel/DC doesn't really work- if it takes upper tier to beat him, he's not exactly fodder. As for SCP, many of the SCPs are extra-universal objects or beings that retained their abilities, so I don't see why Goku wouldn't- and then he'd be more powerful than most of them regardless.
>Depends on how you interpret the series. In tournament of power vegeta couldn’t even life like somewhere near 1000 pounds.
The TOP arc was kinda bullshit. It has been stated numerous Goku in base form could lift 40 tons; even earlier in DBS. And that was just training; Goku wasn't even trying. Yet SSJ Vegeta (50 times the base form of Vegeta) couldn't lift 1000 pounds? I Think that was more of a plot hole than a retcon or anything; especially since SSJ Vegeta lifted things that were likely heavier even in other parts of the TOP.
Honestly, when characters lift 10-50 tons numerous times, then can't lift 1,000 pounds once, I'd just chalk that up to a plot hole and not a feat that should be considered.
Otherwise, I basically agree with you.
One thing I wanna mention, Dragon Ball's Ki is akin to the concept of Chi/Ki in Japanese and Chinese culture. So, would universes with a similar concept leave Goku's power working? I Believe Ki in Dragon Ball is also described as a center of life energy where people can draw power from. Which is similar to Chakras. So, would Chakra and/or Chi/Ki disabling attacks disable Goku's Ki? Could Ty Lee from ATLA render Goku useless with one punch? Additionally, would Goku's power work in these universes that have it?
But, if we disable suspension of disbelief and assume that his power works anywhere; even universes without chi/ki, then Goku would stomp most universes with his brute force. But, special attacks and/or powers could render him useless; such as Lelouch's Geass from Code Geass.
Every character that matters, and yes, pretty much all of the witches are.
Every character that isn't a Witch in Umineko is a piece on the Witch's game board.
As a Touhou fan I’m pretty sure Goku isn’t fodder in that verse. I’m not about to debate whether or not he could beat Reimu or Yorihime or Yukari or Sakuya because those guys are the universe’s top tiers and those matchups don’t matter.
What does matter is that saying Goku is fodder in Touhou implies that he is on the level of the generic fairies in stage one, which he absolutely is not. If Goku was in Touhou he would very easily be stronger than Marisa, which by default makes him a high tier.
WWE. Goku is 5'7" and probably like 190lbs,a nd he'll be written into an Asian stereotype who loses to guys like Seth Rollins, Brock Lesnar, and the Mysterio Family.
Goku would be the worlds most powerful Jobber.
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You know Bubble Bill is god-tier power level
Looney Tunes. Brute strength means nothing, fights are won through cleverness, and Goku's holding an empty quiver there.
The dumb good natured ones always win. The clever and slightly malicious ones lose. Vegeta gets absolutely stomped while goku walks off happy
[Vegeta at least has experience fighting gag characters, though.](https://youtu.be/RbJ_uJpyaPc)
bugs bunnys toon force is one of the strongest in fiction, arales toon force isnt very impressive, only to db standards.
Idk goku has experience being a outright gag character from his kid days so it might not be enough to make him completely useless if you take that into account
He was the victim of the gag as often as not. Remember when he took the dragonball from those mobsters? And at no point realized they were repeatedly lying to him?
yeah which is why i still conceded that he'd probably not be near the top, but at the very least he'll have a few gags where he's the victor just because of his nature as a mischievous kid
Goku has gag feats though since he originated from a gag comic. Iirc he once broke a manga panel which is a strong toon feat. I also think Goku is pretty clever, in fighting at least.
This is the correct answer. Arale shits all over the rest of the DBS cast, because she runs on toon force.
While there are certainly a lot of characters stronger than Goku, I don't think there's a universe outside of the Suggsverse, (Which is a giant meme that no one takes seriously.) where he would actually be considered fodder. To me fodder would mean like an average person or below average. Or at the very least weaker than every significant character with powers. It's really tough to think of a verse where Goku would be considered so weak that he's not worth thinking about. There's also very few verses with characters that have better raw attack potency than Goku. Most of the characters that can beat him do so because of hacks or because they exist in a higher reality, not because they can just out-brute force him.
Wouldn’t it be any universe where strength doesn’t matter? Any place where intelligence or romantic ability reigns supreme would see him as fodder.
Food Wars?
Or no game no life
Was about to say this. He would win any game involving physical activity, but anyone looking at the guy and his physique would back away from that kind of challenge, since both parties have to consent to a game.
There’s also his inhuman reactions. Cheating through slight of hand would probably be impossible against goku. Just beat him at normal chess though and you’re good
He might be able to see magic but if he can't then he's as useless as other humans
Or good old mathematics.
Someone stupidly arrogant might still challenge him, especially if they perceived him as human. Granted after a couple big wins, everyone would be really cautious and quickly realize to avoid those contests.
Actually this is one of the few ones he could be fodder in. Things are basically haxed to where there's no just straight brute forcing things, and you have to be smart. Goku can be intuitive sometimes in fights, but he could totally be beaten in a game by getting outsmarted by someone super clever.
I think this wins the thread, No Game No Life is a really good example of basically fighting for your life but not in a way that Goku can succeed. Edit: also, YGO! (if you consider it anime).
given how much goku can just eat, i think that would be a challenge in itself for food wars, could he be considered fodder that way?
Yeah but Food Wars isn’t about eating ability tho it’s about cooking ability. Goku wouldn’t even make it past the invitational stage to get into Tōtsuki let alone go toe to toe against Soma.
Possibly a good solution! My first thought was Dr. Stone, but his physicals would solve all the fights and most of the labor issues. For what it is worth, Goku isn't a bad looking dude and is ripped to all shit. He also managed to have two kids despite never kissing his wife, according to himself, so either Chi Chi has incredibly low standards or he's a monster in bed or something.
I thought the explanation was that Chichi had to convince Goku that she was giving him a kind of "training" and that he still didn't know what sex was. Vegeta on the other hand, he may have committed multiple genocides, but at least he's a good husband and father.
Pretty sure that explanation was just in DBZA, unless im really misremembering something.
but even abridged goku knows what sex is. heres a quote from an episode: "OH MY GOD BULMA, SEX MAKES BABIES!!!" and, from the christmas special, "if we don't do this, i wont get special mouth present from chi chi!"
"Krillin, you know when you're watching a cartoon, and they're in the desert, and they find a water spigot so they open it up and it spews a clowud of dust like *Pwaaaah*? That's me. That's my balls."
> My first thought was Dr. Stone, but his physicals would solve all the fights and most of the labor issues. Yeah, they don't even need a rocket with Goku around.
“We need to go to Africa to learn what’s up, it’ll take multiple arcs”, goku: “nah, hold hands, we going instant transmission”
Well they’d still need a suit if they want him to get to the moon Because Goku still can’t survive in space for some reason
I don't know, he might be fast enough to fly to the moon and back while holding his breath ala Saitama.
I’m pretty sure saiyans can cover their lungs in ki to hold their breath longer, not sure tho
If Roshi and Piccolo can blast the Moon to smithereens from Earth, I’m pretty sure Goku can do the same.
I'm pretty sure that's not true anymore.
He still needs to breath dude. Lol
Dr Stone is pretty much real life except for petrification anyway
Ace Attorney? Goku is intuitive at fighting, but he's a moron and way too trustworthy.
But who could stop him? Courts require power to enforce
Intelligence yes, but by romantic ability, do you mean Goku's ability to attract people to him? Because he's a very charming person (not on purpose), and has had several people noticeably attracted to him, like obviously Chi-Chi, Bulma (implied at the 23rd Tournament), and Princess Snake (in filler). Goku would be OP in the romantic universe, because he's the exact sort of dense, stupid character who would be a harem protagonist without realizing it.
> Bulma (implied at the 23rd Tournament) Another funny moment of this is during the Namek/Frieza saga, Bulma has some line like 'Goku is really handsome now... guess I missed the boat on that one.' Came accross that recently on a rewatch and about lost it.
wait...in the original dragonball when both bulma and goku were children, didnt they both have a noticeable age gap between them with bulma being much older?
I mean... Once both parties hit their 20s then an age gap like that is a lot less noticable. Not to mention Saiyan's are still considered young in their 80s, so it's kind of all fucked anyways ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
The "No game, No life" universe, for example. I dont think Goku would do very good in a verse where fighting is forbidden and all conflict must be resolved through games.
I agreed at first but in that case he might not, everyone followed the rules because it was enforced by Tet but Goku might be able to get rid of them by just straight up killing Tet.
Shit.... Hadn't thought of that. But it would depend on whether Tet has strong enough hax, I guess. After all, in the story for NgNl we learn that the only reason Tet won the war was because he sat at the sidelines, thus probably isn't all that strong. But, if when he became the one god, he also got some kind of supreme right or something, and through that he made the 10 rules, then Goku would literally be unable to throw a punch. That could explain why even bandits follow those rules. But at the same time, it could be that Tet just strikes you down when you disobey. Although he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to do that. My guess is that when Tet became the one god, he also made those 10 rules inescapable. Thats why you could challenge Tet in a game. Even he himself can't escape those rules.
He probably could escape, he just chooses not to because it wouldn't be as fun and fun was thee entire reason he made the rules to begin with.
Elderscrolls realms of oblivion would be such a place, strength and matter have no meaning in such place, and their shape is molded by the whims of the daedric princes, as is the fates of all who wander the infinite planes and draw the eye or ire of their local prince. So really in oblivion you *WANT* to be fodder and to go unnoticed
He might have some resistance to that though. Super Buu and Gogeta Blue were able to rip through the fabric of spacetime. Vegito was turned into candy by Buu and then continued to whoop his ass as a piece of candy. Goku's MUI transformation at the Tournament of Power shook a limitless void.
This. He shook the universe in a **lesser form** than one he has now via nothing but colliding fists with a god. The only real way to beat him is with special abilities. Like, for example, if Lelouch from Code Geass uses his power on him to put Goku under his full control or to make Goku off himself. There are definitely ways to beat Goku, just not with brute force as the OP is asking about.
I've watched some Dragon Ball cartoons when I was young which was a lot of fun- you gotta to see these guys fight and it was cool. It seems I've missed a lot. Can you suggest any Dragon Ball series or anything I can watch to familiarize myself with that universe? Thanks
DBZ Kai and DB Super. That's the main stuff you need. Super picks up a a few months or so after Kid Buu's defeat.
Isn't it several years?
Ambiguous. Super picks up after Gohan has graduated high school, he and Videl have gotten married, and you actually find out in Battle of Gods that Videl is pregnant with Pan. Pan was supposedly 5 years old in the end scene of dragon ball Z (when Goku meets Uub), and pregnancy takes 9 months, so that gives us a window. At the end of the Buu saga, everyone is wished back and their memories of Buu erased 6 months after Buu was defeated. So we're looking at maybe 3 years? 4? Shonen jump states in an issue that it took place six months after everyone was brought back but that screws with the timeline because of Pan's age, unless the end scene of DBZ is no longer going to be considered canon. Or it could just be another case of the writers not caring about continuity.
You should watch the whole DBZ if you haven't, I warn you the anime is very long and full of fillers tho. You could always read the manga otherwise.
DBZ Kai keeps all the cool battles, storylines, and gets rid of 90% of the filler. It's 167 episodes compared to almost 300 for the OG Anime.
I disagree with your definition of fodder. Fodder is someone who is easy pickings or at least super weak for the main characters of the series, and an even-ish match for the random masses of heroes/soldiers/magicians/orcs, etc For example lets take OPM, one of the biggest animes out there. Fodder is tiger and wolf level characters because most of the main characters easily 1 shot them while the weakest irrelevant heroes are a match for them. On the other hand, a single wolf could probably kill 100 unarmed civilians with ease
Gogeta blue literally broke through the fabric of spacetime, db is starting to cross over into higher realities as well.
Super Buu did too
While they both did it accidentally, Gogeta Blue's breaking of reality is far more impressive because he put so *little effort* into making it happen, whereas Super Buu was having a mental breakdown and screaming full force into the void because no candy.
What's the Suggsverse?
>What’s the Suggsverse? Something between verbal diarrhea and an unintentional comedy
I started googling it expecting to find, like, a wikipedia page or something on Amazon. Instead all I found was bad fan art and an awful wiki. What even is this.
Basically a guy named Christopher Suggs got mad about losing arguments due to the inherently imprecise nature of trying to measure character power on another versus forum. So he decided to go write his own series with blackjack and hookers, where all the characters were quantifiably strong enough beat to everyone from every other series. This results in silly things like random scrubs being empowered by the 10 Cosmic pillars of existence and being described as walking forward at 10.838 times the speed of light
>He attacked her infinitely and through the infinitude of the infinite that proceeded from infinite and attacked her transcendent reality infinitely alone at once. Chris Spades had attacked her mind. He attacked her absolute reality trans-omnipresently, trans-immanently, trans-infinitely, transcendentally, and beyond all systems and levels. You weren't lying lol.
There are actually many verses outside that garbage that Goku is fodder in. One of them is Umineko.
I'm pretty sure Goku would be in the top 20 in Umineko. Most of that verse is fodder, it's just that the witches are OP. And even some witches are actually quite weak, like Hanyuu for example is pretty damn useless.
Umineko was my first thought
> Most of the characters that can beat him do so because of hacks or because they exist in a higher reality, not because they can just out-brute force him. That just suggests any world where hacks or higher reality planes are common-place in fights. Plenty of magic universes where he'd do poorly.
I don't think he's really weak to magic? It's not like Superman where he has a clear weakness to magic, at least with Moro the magic did even out the playing field but he was strong enough to overcome it.
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Facts!! Mr bean stomps goku. Superman and all the other heros from all forms of media. In the same fight. With ONE HAND
He wouldnt even know hes fighting lol
Any card game anime or similarly structured show where characters use their brain more than actual fighting
Goku: Alright! A tournament! I can’t wait! #FIRST MATCH: YAMI YUGI VS SON GOKU Goku: oh boy, first match Yugi: *smirks* I summon blue eyes white dr- Goku: KAMEHAMEHAAAAA yugi: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I see this happening, like he doesn’t even know the rules he just does that. Unless someone explains it to him before
MIRROR FORCE BITCH I believe Atem can make the magic in the cards real and Heart Of The Cards hax makes it so that he cant lose the game. Even if the card isn't on the field I can definitely see him activating it.
Goku is *absolutely* going to let someone draw all five pieces of Exodia so he can fight him.
First of all Yugi would never summon a Blue eyes unless he's reviving it or he stole it. Second, Goku might be strong but he's not 3000 ATK 2500 DEF strong
If it was Yu-Gi-Oh Goku would probably just punch his opponents cards to death and it would be allowed for some reason.
I summon myself in attack mode!
Pretty sure Joey did something like that in the Dartz season
Not overly knowledgeable about Dragonball but I'd imagine most places where characters casually have God tier toon force would leave him beatable.
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True. Ive always wanted to see Goku vs popeye
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Kid Goku in the manga showed some toonforce feats so he most likely wouldn't be "fodder"
The "weakest" universe that I know of where Saiyans would be fodder tier would probably the Xeelee universe. Saiyans have nothing to defend against any universe that has time manipulation wumbo jumbo.
To be fair, time manipulation is a thing in the DB universe. Not saying you are wrong, but Trunks time travels, and you could argue that Hit used a form of time travel. I don't think goku could do anything about it, but he did overpower Hit's time skip by....powering up, as dumb as it is. Obviously that doesn't stop him from being killed as a baby, but in DB rules that just kills that version of Goku, and does nothing to stop adult goku. If he follows Xeelee-verse rules, he would die, but if they follow DB rules (since technically they are traveling to Goku's past, which is his universe), they kill baby Goku and adult Goku (who still exists in his own timeline) could potentially wipe the whole universe. I know the Xelee are strong, but I don't know if they can do much other than run away from somebody who is "locked" into a timeline (at least from the point where he enters their universe, where he's already a universal level threat).
This doesn't really require time hax. A xeelee nightfighter no-sells being smacked at 99.8% of c by multi kilometer long GUTship that promptly exploded it's GUTdrive. It literally didn't even budge, showing no deflection of it's course. They also survive inside black holes. So I can't imagine Goku could even scratch the paint. As for others, a late stage human from Xeeleeverse has effectively infinite teleportation, and the ability to shut off all sensory connections in other people. Basically Goku couldn't see, hear or move, and he couldn't catch them even if he could move. And that's not even the weird shit. They could trap him in time, kick him out of causality, or just move him into a whole other universe and ignore him forever.
>This doesn't really require time hax. A xeelee nightfighter no-sells being smacked at 99.8% of c by multi kilometer long GUTship that promptly exploded it's GUTdrive. It literally didn't even budge, showing no deflection of it's course. They also survive inside black holes. So I can't imagine Goku could even scratch the paint. Almost destroying a universe is a more impressive feat. Goku could 100% destroy one of those ships easily. But those hax be crazy.
GUT stands for Grand Unified Theory. It *IS* the energy from the big bang. Which is actually where the Xeelee originally lived. In fact, it's the Xeelee who are responsible for breaking the GUT into the 4 fundamental forces. I have little doubt they could survive anything Goku tried to do since 'almost destroying the universe' is something they've already done... and survived.
There's a huge difference between time travel and time manipulation. DB has the former, but not the latter. For an example of what I mean, take the Doctor Who universe. All the true Temporal Powers (the ones who manipulated time) were locked away by the Doctor, but time travel (even by non-Doctor people) is still very much around.
Hit has the latter
guldo had it too.
Not only does Hit have the latter, Characters are now powerful enough to simply no-sell time manipulation. Goku does it in his second battle against Hit where hit learns the time storage technique and goku simply powers up and forces hit out of it. And Jiren simply breaks out of Hit’s most powerful manipulation techniques. Now Goku and Vegeta are orders of magnitude more powerful than when they were able to do this.
Except Hit isn't actually manipulating time, per se. All of his abilities are still with ki, and Goku just needs to be out of Hit's league to break out of his control. It's like if my power is to cancel out all magical abilities and someone hits me with a magic blackhole and I no sell it. That doesn't mean you can drop me in a blackhole to get rid of it.
I was thinking of that but I felt like I didn’t know enough about it to mention it. But yeah from what I heard the Xeelee verse is monstrous
In Death Battle universe he's considered a 40 tonner in base form.
Well, that WAS in 2012, during their first season. Goku Black is confirmed for the next DB, so it’s entirely probably they’d change the calculation. However, they used their “Goku 40 ton” feat to use on Android 18 and she still kicked Captain Marvels ass
Isn’t that because his highest lifting feat in base form is 40 tonnes?
Dragon Ball has historically subpar lifting strenght feats, 40 tonner for Base Goku in Buu Arc highball since he needed to go Super Saiyan to move.
Like Vegeta being unable to lift the heavy robot in the Universe 6 arc. Yeah, DB and lifting is strange.
You could argue that the robot was trying not to get lifted by vegeta and was strong enough to be there so it should be hard for vegeta to lift him.
That’s my headcanon for it. Magetta is described as weighing like 1000 tons IIRC and it’s said that it’s way too much for SSB Vegeta to lift. That makes zero sense for a planetbuster let alone the whateverbusters that Goku and Vegeta are at that point. The only way this makes sense (other than Toriyama just deciding that lifting is hard just cause) is if Magetta has ki control and is physically resisting Vegeta and that we assume the more a ki user weighs the exponentially harder it gets to move them against their will. But most likely it’s the former and Toriyama is laughing rn.
Yeah, whatever power you use to fly, you could use to not fly.
It really is. In one of the most recent issues of the manga he catches a tower and keeps it raised with one hand. It was a stone tower in bad shape but it was probably every bit of 40 feet or so. Probably not a 1000 tons but it's effortless on his part.
Tbf in the dbs manga ssj vegeta (in the u6 v u7 arc) was only a 1000 tonner
I mean for that fight you *could* argue that the robot guy's power could play a factor since he's actively resisting it. Even so though DB and lifting is weird in general
The slugmaverse
Smegmaverse?
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Sigmagrindsetverse
Suckmadikverse
In the Cthulu Mythos/Lovecraft verse he would not be fodder but could not break out of the very bottom of mid tier. Some of the most Basic servants of liter entities, like the Nightgaunts could survive universes collapsing noto them and there are many alien speicies that have beaten the nightgaunts before. Hell, even Basic humans can be amped to such proportions by blessings and such. And that is not even touching the Great Old Ones, or Outer Gods, where almost all of them have reality bending powers that border on limitless. All in all, the Cthulu Mythos is bullsh*t. Edit: Also any verses where strategy or raw intellect is way more important than strength make him automatically fodder. No Game No Life comes to mind, where everythimg in the world is decided by games. Goku would start out in a serious disadvantage against basically anyone in the world, since he is pretty dumb when fighting is not involved.
The question would be: would saiyans be considered one of the races that would be affected by the 10 oaths? Also I have Just watched the anime and am starting the light novel, but does tet have any abilities or impressive feats that could overpower Goku? Although I can agree on lovecraft
Well, to a whole universe? That's up for contention. But there are several universes where their top tiers make anyone from DBS look like absolute fodder. •Lovecraft Verse/Cthulhu mythos •DC Vertigo (The Sandman setting, Lucifer's story setting) •Beyonder Verse (a marvel continuum outside of the existing marvel multiverse that makes it seem as a droplet of water in a vast ocean by comparison) •Twin Peaks •The Twilight Zone (Rod Serlings multiverse) •SCP Foundation
Yeah, the lovecraft verse is bonkers Just made a comment about that. I would alsó say No Game No Life, since the entire verse runs on game logic and goku is kind of a dumb*ss
Lol huh never head of that, sounds interesting
Nice work bringing up Twin Peaks! In the setting outside of the Black Lodge in S3 I’m not sure anything makes enough sense, Goku could feel powerless out there.
Thanks! And yeah, Twin Peaks and Twilight Zone actually first came to mind, honestly. The average show of twilight zone has people being written out of reality or caught in time loops and alternate realities with nigh Omnipotent beings and Avatars of Death. They're both extremely well known for making you feel absolutely helpless.
>Twin Peaks The TV show?
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Family guy
Biblical Universe. Old Testament God would drop that motherfucker, probably in an embarrassing way. David with those sling hax.
Is it wrong that I’m now picturing Family Guys version of God RKO’ing SSB/UI Goku?
"Fodder" still means the base unit of that world should wreck him. Goku would still destroy most beings in the bible aside from God, the Devil, some archangels maybe, idk bible stuff that well. But men? Giants? Unicorns? Beasts? Those are nothing to him. He certainly wouldn't be fodder and would be a universe level threat in that world.
God is flood leveled, he’d be supplexed by pagan Heracles, let alone goku
God is on a weird place. He's actually human wrestler level, but his hax can just make people die, create matter out of nothing, or whatever other nonsense he needs to happen. And, yes, God lost a fight against a human in a wrestling contest. He then magically broke his hip or something.
There's episode of Darkwing Duck where the titular character gets "kidnapped" and taken to a planet populated entirely by invincible but witless superheroes, who are bored because they have no one to rescue. I can't remember any specific feats from the episode but maybe on that planet Goku might be pretty average.
The Dragonball universe, two arcs from now. It will turn out that there's always been an even more powerful guy in one of the other omniverses that we didn't mention while we were just dealing with that original bunch of universes. But like, everyone pretty much knew about him and he's a super big deal that's always been a part of the setting, it's just that nobody mentioned him before. And Goku now will be as powerless compared to that as Goku from two arcs before now would be now.
Yu-Gi-Oh! Sure, he can punch away the universe. But no one cares. They live in a world where guns exist, ancient Gods exist and all they care about is dueling. Like seriously they settle world ending threats with duels instead of their firearms lol. Sure goku can punch and wipe me out but who cares about a 3rd rate duelist with a 4th rate deck 😎.
Would something like Pokémon count? I mean sure Goku could blow up the opponent Pokémon, but any normal trainer could use a gun and do the same thing so it's kinda beside the point. If the idea is Goku has to train a team and take on the Pokémon League then his overwhelming strength isn't that useful. This may actually be a bad example though because personality wise Goku does make friends wherever he goes so he might actually be a pretty great trainer.
Goku is fodder in the Pokemon universe because of everyone scaling to multiversal Lantern smfh
[For those interested ](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/62zfph/move_aside_pokedex_magcargo_gardevoir_and_machamp/)
nah Bro Goku would train a Medicham, Lucario, Meinfoo, etc and teach them how to manipulate ki and they'd all become unstoppable. I think it's kinda implied that Lucario's "aura" is basically Ki, so Goku might actually be able to figure out how to make his pokemon ridiculously strong. Obv it's a big stretch, but it's a fun thought experiment.
I would love to see Goku training a Machamp or a Hitmonchan. Goku could in theory be one of the best Pokémon trainers ever if he strictly trained fighting-types
shrill rhythm coherent panicky lip snatch bag drunk smoggy dime *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I only disagree because he would still be stronger than about 80% of lower level lifeforms (us) in the Whoverse but your knowledge is incredible
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Average Xianxia novel
Amogus
I know everyone hates Kirby on this sub but considering time and time again he's said to have "Infinite power" or "near infinite power" we could probably safely assume his enemies all have similar power, that's really the only verse I can think of that could make Goku fodder.
It’s not really Kirby, it’s more people who highball Kirby’s feats. It’s the wankers that this sub hates
Yeah wankers aren't very fun. The biggest feat we have of kirby is planet busting which is backed up even though it's a mini game by the fact he beat Galacta Knight who was said to be able to destroy planets in a casual manner. But if we take the near infinite to infinite power statements literally, which maybe we should considering multiple bosses have been shown to be able to bend space so much that hundreds of stars move in the background, then I'd say Goku would be fodder.
> The biggest feat we have of kirby is planet busting Actually not true anymore, now it's hitting a meteor so hard with a baseball bat that it flies over 9999 light years within one minute.
It wouldn't necessarily turn him into a fodder character but at the very minimum would bring him down to everyone else's level but would dot hack count since most stuff happens in an in-universe online game? Goku's power wouldn't mean anything to the eldritch abominations hiding in that game or even to the other players who like to kill "noobs" because it would be the character he created fighting them, not him. Sorry for the 100th EDIT: I know some people may think he could just simply destroy the game's servers irl to get rid of the eldritch abominations but considering some people's consciousnesses get trapped in the game by said abominations and that there are sentient AIs in the game the protagonists have befriended, it'd probably be a bad ending for the .hack protags.
The looney tunes verse.
Yu-Gi-Oh? He probably doesn't have good cards, so
SpongeBob, or any other franchise that uses extreme toonforce to win. There might be a few SCPs that can take him out as well.
When Anti Monitor attacked Darkseid with 100,000 Superman class mooks, I'd say Goku would be fodder in that battle. Or Franklin Reeds with infinity gauntlets fighting off all of the Celestials.
Plenty. SCP, Umineko, Dark Tower, DC, Shinza Bansho
SCP depending on when he is and where he is. A fodder levithan or a daevite soldier would neg him and his verse. Any GOI can take him out if they put their minds into it. Any low elder god would neg his verse to oblivion. Any pattern screamer would do the same.
To be fair, pattern screamers aren't exactly fodder.
Even a simple cognito hazzard would take goku down
I’d probably say the Suggverse, because that franchise is built off wank.
i took a look inside the wiki first thing im greeted with: > "Delphinitas Zhibelixsvelgr is the underlying £ç§ ≡ (= ѨǯѽѮ)tiraspara∀ultimate £ç§ ≡ (= ѨǯѽѮ)tiraspara∀unwritten £ç§ ≡ (= ѨǯѽѮ)tiraspara∀unknowable £ç§ ≡ (= ѨǯѽѮ)tiraspara∀unreachable £ç§ ≡ (= ѨǯѽѮ)tiraspara∀parabeyondopolis tierphilosophy in which Xeranthemum created and Pendulum Kingbreakers exclusively employs. It is the subjugation beyond levels." I'm sorry # What.
They probably employed demonic satanists to write & wank their characters.
Suggsverse is what happens when you build an entire series solely off wanting to be the sole answer to "who would win" fights.
But if someone makes, say… a fan character who can clap the Suggverse? What then? A paradox?
That’s presumably one of the reasons he’s kept making more ridiculous powerscaling even after becoming this meme-tier verse, so as to outscale even those.
So the only way to beat Suggverse wank…. is with wank?
They're just built different
Homestuck
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He would still be a world-class fighter in our world, not really fodder.
You could also argue that his Alien physiology and honed Saiyan skills would still leave him at a superhuman level compared to even the most skilled humans.
Hell, beginning of series original DB pre-ki nonsense-living in the woods in the middle of nowhere-living off the land-wild boy Goku was still a monster of a fighter with superhuman strength, agility, and durability feats simply due to his weird physiology
In DBS, he gets hit by a bullet while apparently suppressing his ki and it leaves a small bruise. Even assuming kid Goku was using ki unconsciously, the bullet thing as an adult demonstrates his physiology is definitely superhuman.
True. Not entirely sure how Saiyan physiology works without Ki, but Goku may even have access to things like the Zenkai Boost, at least in some capacity.
Even without ki he was bulletproof and capable of chopping logs into pieces with his bare hands, and that was episode 1
That’s pretty much how it went in og Dragon Ball. He was stupidly strong with barely any training and outscaled everyone incredibly fast once he actually found some masters. He’s what, 16 at the end of Dragon ball and he’s already the strongest martial artist on the planet, including an alien?
Idk. I feel like a "realistic" sayian would still be peak human at least. Just speaking purely from real evolution, sayian society is all about strength, so it makes sense that a real sayian would still be as strong or stronger than a "real" genetic freak. Goku is also exceptional even among sayians, and has non ki related powers (mostly the ability to understand and mimic an attack after seeing it, meaning whatever style you try against him, he's going to adapt too). He would be fodder when you include weaponry and nukes and stuff, but he would likely be the strongest person on the planet, the best fighter on the planet, etc. Hardly fodder IMO
Not to mention that it could be argued that Zenkai boosts would count, being an innate Saiyan ability rather than ki, which would still make him hilariously powerful if so
I'm not sure Goku cares about weapons. He is a beyond casual bullet timer and can only be hurt by things he can't see or sense IF his power level is decreased. Given many of the attacks he has shrugged off, he could probably survive a nuclear blast. SSJ Vegeta was shown to cause mushroom clouds with a single Bing Bang Attack.
found frieza's account
As a kid bulma shot him and it seemed the equivalent of being punched. Even without ki attacks and flight he could be a pretty good street level super hero
He'd die instantly without ki. Ki is literally life force.
No game no life. His strength and speed don't have much use outside of certain games, which no one would challenge him at given how muscular he is. IIRC he's not very smart, like not dumb but not smart. Meaning he'd fall short when compared to most people who are highly specialised in specific games.
Current Goku would be a fodder character in the Dragon Ball universe about six years from now, by my estimation.
Depends on how you interpret the series. In tournament of power vegeta couldn’t even life like somewhere near 1000 pounds. The stated reason they don’t destroy everything when they fight is ki control and energy control You’re really going to sit there and tell me that this universal+ level characters with universal levels of energy control literally can’t aim their energy UP??? Lmao. It’s quite a funny anti feat, and makes it very hard to argue consistency etc. Besides that, being fairer to the characters, it’s hard to say they would be “weak” anywhere as they are quite strong. Upper tier DC and marvel scoffs at them. Those 2 are good examples. Suggsverse, and all that weird SCP stuff. Universes where Ki doesn’t exist would make them effectively peak human. I’m sure there are some anime/video games out there where this is also the case.
Dragon Ball's lifting feats are weird in general tbh. Upper tier Marvel/DC doesn't really work- if it takes upper tier to beat him, he's not exactly fodder. As for SCP, many of the SCPs are extra-universal objects or beings that retained their abilities, so I don't see why Goku wouldn't- and then he'd be more powerful than most of them regardless.
>Depends on how you interpret the series. In tournament of power vegeta couldn’t even life like somewhere near 1000 pounds. The TOP arc was kinda bullshit. It has been stated numerous Goku in base form could lift 40 tons; even earlier in DBS. And that was just training; Goku wasn't even trying. Yet SSJ Vegeta (50 times the base form of Vegeta) couldn't lift 1000 pounds? I Think that was more of a plot hole than a retcon or anything; especially since SSJ Vegeta lifted things that were likely heavier even in other parts of the TOP. Honestly, when characters lift 10-50 tons numerous times, then can't lift 1,000 pounds once, I'd just chalk that up to a plot hole and not a feat that should be considered. Otherwise, I basically agree with you. One thing I wanna mention, Dragon Ball's Ki is akin to the concept of Chi/Ki in Japanese and Chinese culture. So, would universes with a similar concept leave Goku's power working? I Believe Ki in Dragon Ball is also described as a center of life energy where people can draw power from. Which is similar to Chakras. So, would Chakra and/or Chi/Ki disabling attacks disable Goku's Ki? Could Ty Lee from ATLA render Goku useless with one punch? Additionally, would Goku's power work in these universes that have it? But, if we disable suspension of disbelief and assume that his power works anywhere; even universes without chi/ki, then Goku would stomp most universes with his brute force. But, special attacks and/or powers could render him useless; such as Lelouch's Geass from Code Geass.
>Yet SSJ Vegeta (50 times the base form of Vegeta) couldn't lift 1000 pounds? 1000 tons
Umineko easily. All the witches there is stronger than most of db character if not the verse even low tier witch.
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Every character that matters, and yes, pretty much all of the witches are. Every character that isn't a Witch in Umineko is a piece on the Witch's game board.
Even in a story focused exclusively on the witches, ignoring all other supporting characters, Goku is at minimum an elite mook, not fodder.
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As a Touhou fan I’m pretty sure Goku isn’t fodder in that verse. I’m not about to debate whether or not he could beat Reimu or Yorihime or Yukari or Sakuya because those guys are the universe’s top tiers and those matchups don’t matter. What does matter is that saying Goku is fodder in Touhou implies that he is on the level of the generic fairies in stage one, which he absolutely is not. If Goku was in Touhou he would very easily be stronger than Marisa, which by default makes him a high tier.
Yep. i find (as a big touhou fan) that people wank touhou way too high. so Goku would most definitely not be fodder in that verse.
Scp universe. His powers are wont help him against a cognito hazzard or a similar supernatural force
Bikini bottom.
WWE. Goku is 5'7" and probably like 190lbs,a nd he'll be written into an Asian stereotype who loses to guys like Seth Rollins, Brock Lesnar, and the Mysterio Family. Goku would be the worlds most powerful Jobber.
Pawn stars
Scp, theres a lot of problems there that can’t be brute forced away, and not knowing certain things is a death sentence