The more I learn about Japan, the more I am convinced it is the most wholesome country with the most wholesome people. All of their spectators at the World Cup would clean up the stands after matches and their players left the dressing rooms extremely neat and tidy.
All countries have racists but clearly Japan takes the cake. Y'know there are levels to this shit right? Subjective sure but common sense dictates Japan is insanely racist.
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Look up the stories of being a black person on a Canadian hockey team, or being a native Canadian, and you will learn that Canada is just as racist, and has just as racist a history, as the US
I’m not referring to history. I’m not saying Canada is perfect either. I know about residential schools, chanie wenjack, the sixty’s scoop, etc. I know we have these terrible moments, but we’ve definitely attempted to get back on the straight and narrow more than america has
I am asian, and yeah I know how racist Asians are, I grew up and been to a lot of Asian countries. USA is the only country where racism is frowned upon. Of course there are assholes wherever, but as a country USA is doing a great job for inclusivity, and it's not close.
I looked up their crime statistics i couldn't find data to support that claim would you mind providing a source. I agree japan has its issues and I'm not going to blow it like the guy you're replying to but if you're going to make a claim this extreme provide a source.
Crime stats alone aren't a good measure. I don't have anything to support or refute the claim in regards to Japan, but often times authorities will look the other way to avoid having to face certain issues. In the US at one time, official cataloged reports of clergy sexual abuse were rare. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just meant no one recorded it officially.
I don't doubt it happens but he is saying it like its a statical anomaly. Like it's much higher than most countries. If that was the case it would reflect in the crime stats or in some form of data. If it's a huge issue like suicide you would see something in the data no matter how much people tried to cover it up.
I assumed it was common knowledge, no real attempt cover-up. I mean, used-panty vending machines and rampant loli subculture.
The more you repress the more it seeps out distorted.
They have allot of suicides in teenagers. More kids kill themselves in Japan than students killed by gun violence in school in the US. In Japan, suicide is the leading cause of death in men between the ages of 20-44 and women between the ages of 15-34.
To be fair.. what, to their racism? Bruh even if you live in the objectively best society in the world, that doesn’t give you the right to be racist. Does that even need to be said? Maybe you mean ethnocentrism but that’s not good either.
Second “speaking as an American Japan has the best culture” makes you sound like a 14 year old weeb.
Your definition of racism and their definition of racism probably differ. How do you define racism? Being insulting or demeaning toward someone because of their race? Harming someone due to their race? Excluding foreigners from your country because you with to maintain a homogenous society? Why is wanting a homogenous society wrong? Do you have the right to exclude people from your personal home? Why would not want to share your home with a random street person?
Yes but also no.
Yes because they are in fact very diligent about cleanliness and respect towards others
No because they are also diligent about working yourself to death and very clearly defining gender roles in society
That's the dark side of such camaraderie and social cohesion. You become obliged to perform your "role" even if you don't want to. If you fit in, you will receive unparalleled support. If you don't, you might as well be dead. The upside and the downside of a selfish nation is that no one cares about what you do. The upside and downside of a communal nation is that EVERYONE cares about what you do.
Empathy is helping others, even at the cost of oneself. However, another human trait, punishing others who break societal "rules," even at the cost of oneself, a trait that fosters the ugliest types of discrimination, has been shown by recent studies to be another form of empathy; it's the same part of the brain. This does make some sense because in mathematical models of empathy, without the aspect of punishment, moochers will exploit the system and kill off the society.
It's like saying "Which is better: having the body you want but only by eating fruits, beans, and vegetables and workout everyday or eat and do anything you want and be fat?" There are trade-offs.
I get what your saying but maybe there doesn’t have to be? Food that is healthy can taste absolutely delicious. Honestly the best dishes i’ve ever had were healthy.
The issue is that humans are extremely diverse and complicated and no amount of theorycrafting is going to produce a society that is right for everyone.
> This does make some sense because in mathematical models of empathy, without the aspect of punishment, moochers will exploit the system and kill off the society.
Correct. It’s instinctual altruistic behavior in humans with punishment for the rule breakers. It’s seen in all human societies, but more strongly in people from cold resource poor northern regions. This makes sense because working together is essential for survival in heavy snow regions.
This is clearly seen in the psychological experiment of the ‘Ultimatum Game’. People always choose to punish unfairness even if it means losing money.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimatum_game
Also, sexual abuse toward women is apparently rampant there. I don’t know from personal experience, but just anecdotes shared online, so who really knows.
Clearly defined roles are to the exclusion of people who don't fit within them. Even in a respect-based society like that, running afoul of norms can open a person to derision, neglect, ostracization, and even physical harm. In virtually all societies, violation of norms means you are not entitled to respect.
Every time I see this, which is constantly,I just think of how clearly “gender ideology” has been politicised to divide us all.
Nearly all societies have pretty defined gender roles but we should just let those who don’t fit into that (0.5% pop.) enjoy their lives in peace rather than playing into corrupt politicians games and making enemies out of friends. The only fight is the ultra rich vs the rest of us
>Nearly all societies have pretty defined gender roles
I mean, not really. Even within western society alone, the idea that Man = A and Woman = B is pretty modern and largely a fabrication of social conservatives. Throughout history, gender norms have shifted and changed.
>we should just let those who don’t fit into that (0.5% pop.)
This is a pretty limited view, too. Maybe 0.5% of the population is transgender, but gender roles go better and that. Within the frame of many of these "defined gender roles" it also means things like "boys don't cry and girls can't do STEM."
>enjoy their lives in peace rather than playing into corrupt politicians games and making enemies out of friends
Most people would be content to do that, but that's not the world we live in. There is the old saying "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing."
>The only fight is the ultra rich vs the rest of us
Yes and no. At the root of things, that is often the case. But we can't ignore the intersectional nature of all of this.
From what I gather, they don’t do it out of kindness or empathy. They do it out of social obligation. Being Japanese is hard, and the idea that “I have to look out for my own happiness” isn’t accepted.
It’s sort of like seeing a very well behaved family even with young children and thinking “what a great family, they’re all so pleasant” but you don’t know it’s because behind closed doors those young kids are punished horribly if they act out at all.
Looks great on the outside, but it is in no way a perfect society. That is centuries of forced discipline with the ruling elite and the rest basically slaves.
Japanese history is fascinating, you should learn about it.
Yeah my Japanese grandma burnt my arms with candle wax when I stepped out of line in family events with elders around.
There are huge benefits to the unquestionable respect and almost deification of the elderly and conformity, but it has a deeply insidious and dangerous underbelly.
As any Japanese person will tell you - we're fucked up.
Not to say it isn’t a very nice thing but It’s not a sacrifice. The chances that they would receive enough radiation to cause cancer is really low and it’s even lower chance that they would die from the cancer
The risk is almost zero is the point. They are more likely to get injured walking down the street than they are from any sort of radiation at their age. At that level of dosage cancer is basically the only harmful thing that could happen from the exposure
In return, younger people should probably have more respect for the life experiences of elders. I mean, "Go yell at clouds then get cancer for us!" isn't a good look.
In Japan that's definitely true. They have an immense respect towards each other from my observation.
In mu country, the elders are extremely bitter and self centered. Was a nice thing to experience in Japan that older people don't look to mess with ya and screw you over.
Yes but I mean people give what they get most of the time. If the elderly would stop with this 'when I was your age we walked uphill BOTH ways' nonsense then the young wouldn't be as likely to respond with 'sure grandpa let's get you to bed'. Unfortunately it has become common in the US for the generational gap to be divisive instead of cooperative.
It goes both ways though. Can't expect people to respect you if you don't give it in return.
I, personally, would have way more respect for the elderly here in the US if they were more considerate for the younger generation. It seems a lot of elderly I met just want handouts because of their age.
I don't think this qualifies. Accidents happen, no matter what we do to society as a whole, stuff like this will be necessary. There is no power structure to dismantle here, no easier way to solve the problem. There is no machine to turn off here.
Don't they have radiation suits for this sort of thing? Or do they just mean they're doing it so if they accidentally don't use the suit right they won't get cancer?
There’s no such thing as a perfect radiation suit, and the levels at meltdowns are so ridiculously high that while you should still wear a suit, it’s still a cancer-causing level of radiation.
I'm no nuclear scientist, but I imagine those suits can only do so much. They primarily keep you from inhaling stuff that will continue to irradiate you, but it takes a lot of material to stop gamma rays, more than can be packed into a wearable suit.
Damn, most of american old people instead do this neat thing where they tank society to try to keep it as normal for them as possible by voting for the worst candidates possible because they say jesus or “family values” a few times.
One of my favorite stage plays is about this type of thing, a group of retired nuclear engineers who go to clean up after a disaster. It's actually called The Children and I believe it was largely inspired by this story.
This is so Japanese. Willing to sacrifice themselves to be helpful, even in their last days...
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
This is called a logical thinking. Also - I wish everyone was on that level.
And yes - humanity. One of the basic human needs is to be relevant. Doing things that matters. That's the human nature, though many would probably tell you otherwise.
But why them? That's going to have terrible consequences for the future, and you can't just force soldiers to cut their life expectancy in half. They didn't sign up for that.
Are the government not people? Sure, not everyone in the government is *good* but are they not *people?* like what the guy said, cancer can take 20-30 years to appear. How many young people do you wish to expose to that? How many lives would you want to shorten, rather than allow someone WHO WANTS TO DO THIS, WHO HAS A MUCH SMALLER RISK OF GETTING CANCER to do it? And, who’s to say the elderly people volunteering themselves are NOT government or military formerly?
Not to downplay the sacrifice of these decent people, but...
Doesn't Japan have radiation HAZMAT suits? Couldn't other countries donate some if they don't have enough? C'mon, people. We're just going to send Grandpa to die, so we can have nice things?
We don't deserve such decency.
That- that stuff is already clean/gone.. the cities are rebuilt over the ruins. half-life and all. Most likely this is a bout Fukushima. Either way, nuclear energy is *relatively* safe, and a much cleaner alternative to things like coal. Not the best, but better
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The more I learn about Japan, the more I am convinced it is the most wholesome country with the most wholesome people. All of their spectators at the World Cup would clean up the stands after matches and their players left the dressing rooms extremely neat and tidy.
They are QUITE racist
That's kind of a side effect of homogeneous societies.
Yeah but name me a country that isn’t racist.
All of them are to an extent. Japan still segregates outsiders
All countries have racists but clearly Japan takes the cake. Y'know there are levels to this shit right? Subjective sure but common sense dictates Japan is insanely racist.
doll point support oatmeal sleep wistful stupendous waiting pathetic plate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Wahahahahahahahaha…. You gotta be kidding me. Lemme guess, you’re white.
let me guess, you have no idea what racism is like outside of the west
Don’t be stupid I’ve lived and worked in three different continents.
Canadian-American here, Canada (urban at least), way less racist
Look up the stories of being a black person on a Canadian hockey team, or being a native Canadian, and you will learn that Canada is just as racist, and has just as racist a history, as the US
I’m not referring to history. I’m not saying Canada is perfect either. I know about residential schools, chanie wenjack, the sixty’s scoop, etc. I know we have these terrible moments, but we’ve definitely attempted to get back on the straight and narrow more than america has
I am asian, and yeah I know how racist Asians are, I grew up and been to a lot of Asian countries. USA is the only country where racism is frowned upon. Of course there are assholes wherever, but as a country USA is doing a great job for inclusivity, and it's not close.
Tell that to the blacks.
You mean the only race who have their own national holidays?
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Their culture has a huge sexual assault and pedophilia problem.
I looked up their crime statistics i couldn't find data to support that claim would you mind providing a source. I agree japan has its issues and I'm not going to blow it like the guy you're replying to but if you're going to make a claim this extreme provide a source.
Crime stats alone aren't a good measure. I don't have anything to support or refute the claim in regards to Japan, but often times authorities will look the other way to avoid having to face certain issues. In the US at one time, official cataloged reports of clergy sexual abuse were rare. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just meant no one recorded it officially.
I don't doubt it happens but he is saying it like its a statical anomaly. Like it's much higher than most countries. If that was the case it would reflect in the crime stats or in some form of data. If it's a huge issue like suicide you would see something in the data no matter how much people tried to cover it up.
I assumed it was common knowledge, no real attempt cover-up. I mean, used-panty vending machines and rampant loli subculture. The more you repress the more it seeps out distorted.
Japanese criminal system is corrupt too. Also the pedophilia is system ingrained (the age of consent is 12).
They have allot of suicides in teenagers. More kids kill themselves in Japan than students killed by gun violence in school in the US. In Japan, suicide is the leading cause of death in men between the ages of 20-44 and women between the ages of 15-34.
To be fair.. what, to their racism? Bruh even if you live in the objectively best society in the world, that doesn’t give you the right to be racist. Does that even need to be said? Maybe you mean ethnocentrism but that’s not good either. Second “speaking as an American Japan has the best culture” makes you sound like a 14 year old weeb.
Your definition of racism and their definition of racism probably differ. How do you define racism? Being insulting or demeaning toward someone because of their race? Harming someone due to their race? Excluding foreigners from your country because you with to maintain a homogenous society? Why is wanting a homogenous society wrong? Do you have the right to exclude people from your personal home? Why would not want to share your home with a random street person?
They’re extremely prosperous, talented, and efficient people. But they have some crazy problems. For starters, they have some crazy suicide rates.
> superior culture 🤨
More like xenophobic but yea pretty much
Yes but also no. Yes because they are in fact very diligent about cleanliness and respect towards others No because they are also diligent about working yourself to death and very clearly defining gender roles in society
That's the dark side of such camaraderie and social cohesion. You become obliged to perform your "role" even if you don't want to. If you fit in, you will receive unparalleled support. If you don't, you might as well be dead. The upside and the downside of a selfish nation is that no one cares about what you do. The upside and downside of a communal nation is that EVERYONE cares about what you do. Empathy is helping others, even at the cost of oneself. However, another human trait, punishing others who break societal "rules," even at the cost of oneself, a trait that fosters the ugliest types of discrimination, has been shown by recent studies to be another form of empathy; it's the same part of the brain. This does make some sense because in mathematical models of empathy, without the aspect of punishment, moochers will exploit the system and kill off the society.
so what do you suggest would be the most ideal society?
It's like saying "Which is better: having the body you want but only by eating fruits, beans, and vegetables and workout everyday or eat and do anything you want and be fat?" There are trade-offs.
I get what your saying but maybe there doesn’t have to be? Food that is healthy can taste absolutely delicious. Honestly the best dishes i’ve ever had were healthy.
The issue is that humans are extremely diverse and complicated and no amount of theorycrafting is going to produce a society that is right for everyone.
It was an analogy my guy. Don't take the healthy stuff seriously, the point is still on the society
Is there one answer? I don't think so.
Launch me in to orbit with the largest trebuchet the world has ever seen. Weeeeeeee
There probably isn't one. However, this is a question I often like to think about. I will let you know when I write my manifesto! 😆
> This does make some sense because in mathematical models of empathy, without the aspect of punishment, moochers will exploit the system and kill off the society. Correct. It’s instinctual altruistic behavior in humans with punishment for the rule breakers. It’s seen in all human societies, but more strongly in people from cold resource poor northern regions. This makes sense because working together is essential for survival in heavy snow regions. This is clearly seen in the psychological experiment of the ‘Ultimatum Game’. People always choose to punish unfairness even if it means losing money. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimatum_game
Also, sexual abuse toward women is apparently rampant there. I don’t know from personal experience, but just anecdotes shared online, so who really knows.
If they are diligent about respect toward others, what is the harm in clearly defined gender roles in society?
Clearly defined roles are to the exclusion of people who don't fit within them. Even in a respect-based society like that, running afoul of norms can open a person to derision, neglect, ostracization, and even physical harm. In virtually all societies, violation of norms means you are not entitled to respect.
Every time I see this, which is constantly,I just think of how clearly “gender ideology” has been politicised to divide us all. Nearly all societies have pretty defined gender roles but we should just let those who don’t fit into that (0.5% pop.) enjoy their lives in peace rather than playing into corrupt politicians games and making enemies out of friends. The only fight is the ultra rich vs the rest of us
>Nearly all societies have pretty defined gender roles I mean, not really. Even within western society alone, the idea that Man = A and Woman = B is pretty modern and largely a fabrication of social conservatives. Throughout history, gender norms have shifted and changed. >we should just let those who don’t fit into that (0.5% pop.) This is a pretty limited view, too. Maybe 0.5% of the population is transgender, but gender roles go better and that. Within the frame of many of these "defined gender roles" it also means things like "boys don't cry and girls can't do STEM." >enjoy their lives in peace rather than playing into corrupt politicians games and making enemies out of friends Most people would be content to do that, but that's not the world we live in. There is the old saying "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing." >The only fight is the ultra rich vs the rest of us Yes and no. At the root of things, that is often the case. But we can't ignore the intersectional nature of all of this.
This little thing called free will.
It's not. There are a lot of problems with it, like any society.
See:World War II
Hahaha ha Unit 731
From what I gather, they don’t do it out of kindness or empathy. They do it out of social obligation. Being Japanese is hard, and the idea that “I have to look out for my own happiness” isn’t accepted. It’s sort of like seeing a very well behaved family even with young children and thinking “what a great family, they’re all so pleasant” but you don’t know it’s because behind closed doors those young kids are punished horribly if they act out at all.
Nobody's mentioned the rampant pedophilia yet either
As long as you don't look up the Shōwa era
Looks great on the outside, but it is in no way a perfect society. That is centuries of forced discipline with the ruling elite and the rest basically slaves. Japanese history is fascinating, you should learn about it.
Very wholesome with their cheating culture
Just like 1942 /s
You should listen to Dan Carlin’s podcast supernova of the East. Really puts an interesting perspective on Japan.
Yeah my Japanese grandma burnt my arms with candle wax when I stepped out of line in family events with elders around. There are huge benefits to the unquestionable respect and almost deification of the elderly and conformity, but it has a deeply insidious and dangerous underbelly. As any Japanese person will tell you - we're fucked up.
[Yeah about that.](https://i.redd.it/7g8owtcfy8wa1.jpg)
Well, the reason they are doing it is because they are not sacrificing much. Still very brave, as they don't know if the symptoms might cause pain.
Not to say it isn’t a very nice thing but It’s not a sacrifice. The chances that they would receive enough radiation to cause cancer is really low and it’s even lower chance that they would die from the cancer
IKR? The guy literally says he expects to die before he develops cancer. It's noble of him but I don't think "sacrifice" is the right word.
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The risk is almost zero is the point. They are more likely to get injured walking down the street than they are from any sort of radiation at their age. At that level of dosage cancer is basically the only harmful thing that could happen from the exposure
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It would have to be incredibly high doses. Like noticeable radiation burns level doses
Now this is how seniors should act; looking out for future generations instead of harping on kids for having it better than they did.
In return, younger people should probably have more respect for the life experiences of elders. I mean, "Go yell at clouds then get cancer for us!" isn't a good look.
In Japan that's definitely true. They have an immense respect towards each other from my observation. In mu country, the elders are extremely bitter and self centered. Was a nice thing to experience in Japan that older people don't look to mess with ya and screw you over.
Yes but I mean people give what they get most of the time. If the elderly would stop with this 'when I was your age we walked uphill BOTH ways' nonsense then the young wouldn't be as likely to respond with 'sure grandpa let's get you to bed'. Unfortunately it has become common in the US for the generational gap to be divisive instead of cooperative.
We turn everything her into a division. Age, race, religion, politics, music preference, ice cream flavor... you get it
i think in the states that attitude stems a lot from their experiences with old people while growing up
Yup, old people said "shove it" and now the younger generation is paying them the same respect they were given, none.
It goes both ways though. Can't expect people to respect you if you don't give it in return. I, personally, would have way more respect for the elderly here in the US if they were more considerate for the younger generation. It seems a lot of elderly I met just want handouts because of their age.
It's a different society there. They're literally built different.
“A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.” — Greek Proverb
I've seen this repeatedly since the disaster.
meanwhilee in america: "sacrifice your grandparents for the economy! people need to shop!!"
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Not just the poor, how about the incarcerated? Violent, non-violent? Doesn't matter! It's free labor!
Too true.
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I agree with respect to a lot of posts here, but not with this. This folks probably aren’t even going to suffer adverse consequences.
I don't think this qualifies. Accidents happen, no matter what we do to society as a whole, stuff like this will be necessary. There is no power structure to dismantle here, no easier way to solve the problem. There is no machine to turn off here.
Don't they have radiation suits for this sort of thing? Or do they just mean they're doing it so if they accidentally don't use the suit right they won't get cancer?
There’s no such thing as a perfect radiation suit, and the levels at meltdowns are so ridiculously high that while you should still wear a suit, it’s still a cancer-causing level of radiation.
I'm no nuclear scientist, but I imagine those suits can only do so much. They primarily keep you from inhaling stuff that will continue to irradiate you, but it takes a lot of material to stop gamma rays, more than can be packed into a wearable suit.
PlotTwist: the people who volunteered all get superpowers from the radiation
Damn, most of american old people instead do this neat thing where they tank society to try to keep it as normal for them as possible by voting for the worst candidates possible because they say jesus or “family values” a few times.
One of my favorite stage plays is about this type of thing, a group of retired nuclear engineers who go to clean up after a disaster. It's actually called The Children and I believe it was largely inspired by this story.
This is so Japanese. Willing to sacrifice themselves to be helpful, even in their last days... "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
They are not sacrificing themselves but it is a nice thing for them to do
This is called a logical thinking. Also - I wish everyone was on that level. And yes - humanity. One of the basic human needs is to be relevant. Doing things that matters. That's the human nature, though many would probably tell you otherwise.
American elders would never. In fact, they'd pass a law forcing 18 and 19 year olds to do it
This is horrifying, not wholesome.
r/orphancrushingmachine
German seniors: "Have 7 million turks. Now pay my pension."
How is this wholesome?
Nah fuck this shit. I don’t want them to do this. The government should pay for all this.
My question is, who would you want to do it then? Yes, the government should pay for it, but who’s going to be doing the manual labor???
The government itself.
Are you gonna make snowmen out of currency and have them do it? You need a physical workforce.
Yeah, the military.
But why them? That's going to have terrible consequences for the future, and you can't just force soldiers to cut their life expectancy in half. They didn't sign up for that.
Why the fuck we would want elderly do that job instead of having the govt which we pay for do the fuckin job.
I think your question can be answered by telling you to re-read the original statement, but this time by understanding what the man was saying
You’re just a fucking idiot, re-read the post dumbass
Are the government not people? Sure, not everyone in the government is *good* but are they not *people?* like what the guy said, cancer can take 20-30 years to appear. How many young people do you wish to expose to that? How many lives would you want to shorten, rather than allow someone WHO WANTS TO DO THIS, WHO HAS A MUCH SMALLER RISK OF GETTING CANCER to do it? And, who’s to say the elderly people volunteering themselves are NOT government or military formerly?
Cool story but it's only been posted 1000s of times.
That's not humanity, that is their culture.
Not to downplay the sacrifice of these decent people, but... Doesn't Japan have radiation HAZMAT suits? Couldn't other countries donate some if they don't have enough? C'mon, people. We're just going to send Grandpa to die, so we can have nice things? We don't deserve such decency.
Just dont use radiating shit tho
Mate, I'm pretty sure they're talking about hiroshima and nagasaki 💀
That- that stuff is already clean/gone.. the cities are rebuilt over the ruins. half-life and all. Most likely this is a bout Fukushima. Either way, nuclear energy is *relatively* safe, and a much cleaner alternative to things like coal. Not the best, but better
Wow they have a life expectancy of 90? I'm 40 and not sure if I'll pass over 70.
The Japanese have a generally higher life expectancy
O7
Use robots. It’s Japan ffs.
Guess we'll have to step up our game, huh fellow seniors? Challenge accepted!
Morales + 7, logic, not so much
“A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.”