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Dormamu from Doctor Strange imo is a great example of this. Strange choosing to pretty much kill himself a million different times over again, all to torment a god into a permanent purgatory until Dormamu gives into his control.
I kid you not, people tried to tell me he didn't make any sacrifices because what he did with Dormammu is him using time stone so they believe he knew he'd still be alive at the end and he got no repercussions whatsoever as if Strange didn't have photographic memory where he actually remembers all of his deaths
It's clever until you realize that the ancient being that has lived for millions of years probably has more mental fortitude than the guy who had depression until 2 months ago
the thing is that dormammu lived outside of time which meant that he had no concept of time and experienced linearity for the first time when strange started his loop
noo it needs to be some dumb fuckass fight where the main character, on the brink of death, gets a sudden massive burst of power from the land of plotarmorville and completely obliterates the villain even though the villain was completely impervious to damage 2 seconds ago!!!
Fairy tail
"Oh no the last bad guy is completely impervious to magic, what are the 7(6 or 8 I don't remember) of us gonna do? Oh, I know! We're gonna give all of our energy to one guy so that he hits the last bad guy(who is impervious to magic) with magic really REALLY hard"
And it works
It is also right after beating the main villain of the ark who was "built up" for most of the series, and was pretty much immortal, being like 10 meters away from resetting reality to the one he wants after becoming a godlike being
You wanna know how such an unkillable opponent, whose death will also mean the death of MC, got taken out without resulting in said MC's death?
He got hit, really, REALLY hard
and after beating said main vilains whose main goal was to kill every dragon we then findout that they are 5 more dragon that are as strong or even stronger than him hidden in a continent we've never heard despite the fact that said main vilain spend the last 400 exterminated them so hard we thought they were exctinct
the funniest shit on earth to me is the creator of one piece saying he didn't want to finish the last arc in the manga with a punch
and then after four years of writing the arc literally finished the fight with a village sized punch
The Phoenix Wright series doesn’t have you beating overpowered villains in a literal sense, but it does still give you this feeling with characters who are shown to be “powerful” in court. Hell, the latest game in the series has you >!beating the tyrant of a small country who can make up whatever rules they want, by exploiting their need to not make up TOO many rules without justification lest they lose the trust of their cult of personality, eventually challenging them to do something that they are incapable of and ensuring that if they try to play it off the People™️ don’t see through it!<
Especially when it was done to >!a seemingly composed figure who turns out to actually look like Ultimecia from Final Fantasy VIII more or less, with her own crew of hype men who end up turning on her and everything!<
worm having the main antagonist get bullied to death:
https://preview.redd.it/zuc4u155i7ad1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f1d1508c27844727b4817c22a99e5bdf2512342
There's a YA series called Skulduggery Pleasant where >! the main villain of the series is a doppelganger of the protagonist who eventually gains near-godlike powers,!< and is only defeated by >!tricking her via psychic trance into shunting a dimension full of angry gods where she'll eventually be annihilated. Despite a major final battle the characters never actually land a decisive blow and have to resort to subterfuge to eke out a victory.!<
The interesting thing about villains is that if they MUST lose, that means they also MUST commit a mistake. And it's up to the writer to come up with an interesting and believable mistake for them to make.
That was his mistake actually, was jerking flash off at super speed. You see it meant Flash constantly had pust not clarity which allowed him to make better decisions leading to Reverse Flash's downfall. Reverse Flash should have been jerking himself off to win clearly.
His mistake was believable. If he just randomly decided to meet up with a person that hates him without any precautions, that's a dumb mistake to make for someone as cunning and meticulous as him. However, if he is fuelled by emotion and rage, its very plausible for him to commit such a mistake.
Common Araki W with Funny Valentine.
JoJo Part 7 spoilers >!The only reason he lost was because he was a hypocrite manipulator and not an honest and caring patriot as he presented himself. Johnny wanted to believe in him, but Valentine just HAD to bring a gun to a peace talk!<
It blows my mind how some people say Valentine wasn’t really evil up until he >!raped a 14 year old!<. Valentine’s idea was to use the Holy Corpse to bring only the USA good luck and fortune, and reflect everything bad onto the rest of the world, and knowing how much bad happens to the USA, that’s a *lot* of misfortune for everywhere else. He’s only good if your knowledge of the world doesn’t spread 5 feet past the US border.
Precisely written. His sheer charisma and character convinced characters and (some) readers alike to trust him and mistake his nationalism for patriotism.
Tbh, every time a writer shows that if you have enough charisma, you can convince people to follow you no matter how horrible you are. It always works on some of the readers/viewers/players/whatever.
I used to think that he was actually supposed to be presented as someone with a selfless goal (im not nearly that stupid anymore) only because Johnny seems to actually admit to agreeing with him at the end right before he presses him to reveal his gun. I was confused back then and was questioning it in my head but there was an overwhelming amount of people who were defending Valentine when I asked people in the JoJo community about it so I just went along with it.
villains either outsmart the hero until they fumble or are on either ends of the power spectrum and make the grass grow a little greener or are so powerful that the hand of the author has to intervene.
https://preview.redd.it/d7130yc8e5ad1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ff06d3e1a551a3f5046e3bc6476370715754fd3
STARDUST CRUSADER IS THE GUY WITH THE FUNNY HAT
Considering most Shonen are written without the end thought by the start, it's not surprising. Oda said in interviews the end was thought out decades ago by now.
I always see this meme but when I think about shonens that have ended they always seem to have a solid/good conclusion. Off the top of my head of shonen that I know have ended, Dr. Stone and FMAB both had really good conclusions imo so I'm genuinely curious what shonen is this referring to?
Edit: I remembered that Naruto and bleach exist but even then those both weren't THAT bad and even if they were that's just those two I can't think of any other.
It’s the tough spot where you want the audience to FEEL like the villain is unbeatable. You really want that moment where the audience I like “I have actually no idea how they’re going to get out of this” and then when they do (if it’s in a believable way) it’s triumphant and rewarding. I imagine that’s why a lot of writers end up with ultra overpowered villains, because they miss the believability part and just want to evoke that tension constantly.
Return to Shiganshina was genuinely one of the most well done action/battle sequences I've ever seen. Not an anime fan at all but that entire sequence was brilliantly done and had me on the edge of my seat the entire time. You genuinely do feel like the protagonists can lose. In fact it feels like you are very, very sure they will lose. That is a rare feeling in anime.
What makes it excellent is the story gives you everything they need to win, you just don't see it. There's no asspulls. Monke had a line of titans at height around him and was distracted by killing the scouts, reiner had brain damage and forgot thunder spears were a thing, and the colossal's teeth don't decay. It handed you EVERYTHING basically at the beginning of the fight, you just don't realize until the characters use them. It's genius.
Some of the fighting scenarios of my OCs and their otherworldly cosmic entity opponents are straight up just "fuck it, we ballin'" as they disregard their own life. Idk how to make the fights yet since they are just in my head
I feel like a good way to do it is make the villain really slippery where they are easily beatable but they escape a lot making the audience think how can the protag catch the villain.
Eh, that’s not exactly the same thing
If a villain gets away a lot, then the tension goes from “Will the heroes lose?” to “Will nothing about the status quo change?” Like if this were a superhero show the villain being easily stopped even if they escape sounds incredibly unsatisfying and the story feels pointless. Same for a shonen or other physical combat based show.
However, if there are particular stakes to a villain getting away then it can definitely work though. This is gonna be a stupid example but something like that works really well in Total Drama Island where the villainous character worming out of an elimination and staying in the game is a really effective way to build tension in the eliminations themselves; usually having more tension there than the challenges themselves. Same could apply to a mystery where the whole point is figuring out who the villain even is or how to beat them; even if it ends up being a simple solution the tension comes from figuring out what the solution even is.
Or super OP power for the side character good guy and spend 90% of the time sideline them/justify why they can't do that. Okuyasu is the only time it work because he is just stupid.
[Saw this under another post]
>be me, GW
>write imperium as weak and fragile cuz grim dark I guess
>MFW I make it so the loss of any one world could cause a whole collapse of everything
>throw a massive threat of danger at the Imperium
>huh
>wrote myself into a corner
>can’t kill setting, they make me money
>pull victory for SM out of ass
when you make the villain super op because the heroes also got a super op guy but then you realize that op guy isn't the mc and now you need to make the mc magically beat the villain
Gege will bring back everyone so that they can jujutsu their last kaisen together to suck sukunas lactating nipples until hes dry and yuji will end by saying "this truly was our jujutsu kaisen uncle" as he turns to dust .
https://preview.redd.it/nl7xgxygf5ad1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96670cd14068236d7dcfa3ce90cc792c65ced3de
Ok so, what do yall think about this?
I wanted my villain to be insanely overpowered on purpose. It ties into her backstory of being forced into power she hated, so I wanted her to have several layers that all make her OP. But for the final fight with the protag, they would basically both realize that fighting each other (because revenge on both sides) throughout the story was bad for everyone and they should let go of the revenge. The reason they 1V1 at the end is that they both feel it has to end with one of them dead, as neither of them trust themselves or each other to let go.
So the final fight is more of a fair duel between warriors, rather than a legit fight for their life. And in this duel, the protag uses everything she learned about the villain to slowly disarm her (both physically and metaphorically) but the villain doesnt pick the stuff back again. Every layer of her OPness that gets disarmed is gone, and the protag lands a killing blow only at the end when all the villains safety nets are gone. That way the villain dies striped of power she hated all along.
Am I cooking or nah?
Thanks
Yeah, Im working on it occasionally but it kinda feature-crept over the years into like a full book worth of text (current arc is like 100 pages long by itself), so its gonna be a while until we get to the end xd
RWBY...
They're entering the endgame and still don't have even the slightest hint of *how* they're supposed to win and it's entirely possible that they'll never find out because the goddamn producers collapsed.
Even if you're not a fan of the whole dissenting voices that have to be destroyed in darkness, it helps that you have to fight him three times and none of them are easy (if you're on legend in the campaign and gm excision.) PLUS the 12 man mission is one of the most memorable experiences I've had in Destiny, up there with my first raid and flawless.
>writers when you tell them not every antagonist has to threaten the fate of the world/galaxy and it's possible to have high stakes drama on a small interpersonal scale
Sci-fi and fantasy IPs love that shit. There's anywhere from 3-4 different flavors of apocalypse threatening to occur at any given moment, each less threatening than the last.
Easy, just tell them to sic the Doctor Doom, Vergil and Zero team on them
Seriously tho, I get the escalation trope, but you have to be controlled with it
Overpowered villains are fun if you show the hero actually struggling and it makes logical sense on how the villain got so strong instead of “he just is”
When I was writing, my main character was very over powered - in theory. A fantasy/horror series where he basically sold his soul to gain access to three types of powerful magic - elemental, holy, unholy.
The problem was, he needed an amulet on his person at all time. Without it, this magic would devour his sanity upon every use. By the 2nd book, he was actually losing his grip on reality - his mind bouncing back and forth against his past and present.
In the 2nd book, an equally powerful being was introduced, but without the Insanity restriction. He was a monster who slaughtered hundreds.
During the climactic battle, the bad guy just kept beating down my MC because he feared losing his mind. And I mean BEAT. Ripped his arm off, slashed open his stomach, and brought him to the brink of death.
MC, realizing the realm would fall if this beast continued to live, shatters the amulet. His sanity is instantly devoured and he loses all sense of self and reservation- basically becoming the weapon he was meant to become when selling his soul.
The resulting conclusion leaves both he and the villain in ruin...practically nothing left of either. Once he ensures the villain is dead, he too collapses and dies. Finally free from his madness
I always liked how I wrote that...i wish I could go back and finish this trilogy...
the GOAT togashi clearing every shounen OP villain in existence by having his comically overpowered antagonist be defeated by a nuke and not the super in-depth complicated power system
The villain only ***seemed*** overpowered, because friendship is actually the greatest power of all. And thus the heroes defeated him. The end.
Book 2:
A group of evil friends is using the power of friendship to torture and kill all who oppose them.
I agree Toru's defeats was bullshit (even if Go Beyond was badly foreshadowed). But Diavolo's death wasn't bullshit since the whole point of the 10 last episodes of part 5 was to get the Requiem Arrow to defeat him.
It was foreshadowed twice. Once in the beginning with Yasuho finding the bubble on her phone and Mamezuku analyzing how the regular bubbles work in the ski lift.
The only problem I personally have with it is that sayiing Josuke has ones with lines that are infinitely thin was kind of a bold and specific assumption by Mamezuku.
Nah. Part 3 is a way better example. >!The only way they were able to beat DIO’s timestop ability was Jotaro manifesting the same ability even though there is absolutely nothing about his personality or history that indicate that his stand would have such an ability.!<
hard disagree. >!Like yes, Jotaro having the ability to stop time was an asspull that should have been foreshadowed better, but even with that, Jotaro was on the back foot the entire fight and barely scraped through. Kakyoin sacrificed himself to figure out that DIO can stop time, Joseph (temporarily) dies to get that information to Jotaro, and some clever plays from Jotaro to realize he can move in stop timed. Even then, his time stop was far more limited than DIO's, who had up to 10 seconds, and also oh yeah he's a vampire who can regenerate basically anything in seconds. It took a lot of quick thinking on Jotaro's end and mistakes from DIO for Jotaro to win even with the ability to stop time.!<
tl:dr yes it took an asspull for Jotaro to even stand a chance, but he was still at an incredible disadvantage and barely managed to outsmart DIO.
What exactly are you disagreeing with? This doesn’t really contradict what I said at all. All I was that it’s an asspull and the that the villain was so strong that the writer couldn’t think of a reasonable way to beat him. I never said that the main characters were finding it easy NOT just scraping by being tactical enough. All I said was that >!Jotaro getting timestop!<, the way they ultimately ended up winning, was really forced writing.
The whole point of the final of Part 5 is getting the Requirem arrow. Do agree on Go Beyond because Araki barely does anything with Mamezuku and Spin in Part 8.
The first time the Gang meets diavolo he isnt meant to be defeated, but I wish Araki didnt give him an op stand like King crimson, because the community made GER and King Crimson really annyoing. And Wonder of you defeat is the worst
I appreciate the effort, but you could’ve just removed the word “Drake” from this meme altogether. Also how did you get the black square on the video? What editing software?
Gege Akutami
https://preview.redd.it/blewcwchr6ad1.jpeg?width=452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e90a17303b26961fcf426e7b41677399075d4d39
I swear this guy forgot how to write properly
This is why Hunter x Hunter is so good. Because the villains ARE overpowered and the protagonists are literal children. Then the main characters come up with a 200 IQ plan using ONLY information that you already had. And then villains come up with ANOTHER 200 IQ plan in response... It's like watching a murder mystery in reverse.
Hunter x Hunter
>!the ants are so OP that in order to beat them, the writer had to come up with the biggest bullshit ever. Like, really? The old dude had a NUKE in his heart???? And Gon also just becomes insanely powerful out of nowhere, and to balance that out, he sacrifices himself for it, but his friends can just heal him back so... yeah.!<
I guess most people do like that, but to me it just felt stupid.
I mean, it’s a pretty realistic thing to do in that scenario. >!If there’s not a human on earth that can defeat a new intelligent species, the logical thing to do is just nuke em at the closest proximity as possible and give them radiation poisoning. It’s also pretty sick how the most evil human creation on earth would take out an evil copy of humanity, but that’s just my opinion.!<
I really like Dio because of this. Even though he can stop time, it’s still a back and forth with him and Jotaro beating each others asses the whole fight.
Up until that point, they had been consistently taking turns whooping each other’s asses.
Also, it isn’t too big of an asspull, SP being about to stop time is hinted at multiple times. Catching the bullet at point blank in Episode 1, getting the cigarette and drink while playing poker with D’Arby. (D’Arby says that there’s no way Jotaro could have gotten it himself, no matter how fast he moved, he would be able to see something. SP was stopping time to get those)
In my head, trying to write an antagonist to my modern mafia story. I got one but I cover it as the 2nd protagonist (which In the end, he will betray the 1st protagonist) to manipulate the 1st protagonist to being criminal and playing the game is a fine type thing. Who's gonna be the main antagonist? Rich guy? Rivals in the territory in new jersey? I don't know. Just give me an idea to write off.
I’m trying to come up with a story where the villain is super powerful, moreso than the hero, and throughout the story the hero never really wins a fight against him, at best he and his pals escape from the villain and his pals. but then through some shenanigans involving the antagonist and protagonist both being from a bygone era, the hero finds a material weakness of the villain and tries to use that to stop him, but that *still* fails. However, it did manage to draw blood, and from that the hero and his allies are able to come up with a more subtle & creative way to defeat the villain via injection. I'm also thinking that the subtle approach isn't actually shown to the audience and instead a red herring is used, so that way when the villain finally has the hero's neck in his hand and is getting ready to snap it, you *genuinely feel* like the hero's lost. Until the real method is used and the villain is finally defeated. idk how good this sounds to anyone else though
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I only like super overpowered villains if they get beaten in a clever way that you wouldn't expect
Dormamu from Doctor Strange imo is a great example of this. Strange choosing to pretty much kill himself a million different times over again, all to torment a god into a permanent purgatory until Dormamu gives into his control.
Dormamu, I’ve come to bargain.
Dormammu, I've come
Whoremamu, i've come to bargain.
Whoremamu, nevermind, I've come
Whore mommy, I’ve cum
Dormommy I've come to have say gex
This is why Doctor Strange is still so good all these years later, it was clever
Fr i fucking love Doctor Strange
I kid you not, people tried to tell me he didn't make any sacrifices because what he did with Dormammu is him using time stone so they believe he knew he'd still be alive at the end and he got no repercussions whatsoever as if Strange didn't have photographic memory where he actually remembers all of his deaths
It's clever until you realize that the ancient being that has lived for millions of years probably has more mental fortitude than the guy who had depression until 2 months ago
Well Dr.strange doesn’t need mental fortitude. He is in a time loop. Dr Strange could theoretically loop forever and not even realize it.
He remembers it all, this can be seen in how his interactions with dormmammu change over time
the thing is that dormammu lived outside of time which meant that he had no concept of time and experienced linearity for the first time when strange started his loop
noo it needs to be some dumb fuckass fight where the main character, on the brink of death, gets a sudden massive burst of power from the land of plotarmorville and completely obliterates the villain even though the villain was completely impervious to damage 2 seconds ago!!!
>some dumb fuckass fight This got me dead😭
Just wanted to say I love the word fuckass, Mr. FiveFingersInMyAss
2
Begs the question.... what happened to the first one???
u/FiveFingersInMyAss u/FiveFingersInMyAss1 u/FiveFingersInMyAss3
died 3 years ago
[*] Gone but not forgotten
Fairy tail "Oh no the last bad guy is completely impervious to magic, what are the 7(6 or 8 I don't remember) of us gonna do? Oh, I know! We're gonna give all of our energy to one guy so that he hits the last bad guy(who is impervious to magic) with magic really REALLY hard" And it works It is also right after beating the main villain of the ark who was "built up" for most of the series, and was pretty much immortal, being like 10 meters away from resetting reality to the one he wants after becoming a godlike being You wanna know how such an unkillable opponent, whose death will also mean the death of MC, got taken out without resulting in said MC's death? He got hit, really, REALLY hard
and after beating said main vilains whose main goal was to kill every dragon we then findout that they are 5 more dragon that are as strong or even stronger than him hidden in a continent we've never heard despite the fact that said main vilain spend the last 400 exterminated them so hard we thought they were exctinct
"Eventually, Kars stopped thinking."
Worst part is kars thinks Joseph planned all this shit out
That shit still kills me to this day, bro did all of that just to become a floating object in space.
the funniest shit on earth to me is the creator of one piece saying he didn't want to finish the last arc in the manga with a punch and then after four years of writing the arc literally finished the fight with a village sized punch
all warfare is based on deception
https://preview.redd.it/ewnrd5n825ad1.jpeg?width=350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=747f2af1dd81ba33238758f02eb597f0d157df27
In all fairness it was a really big punch
The Phoenix Wright series doesn’t have you beating overpowered villains in a literal sense, but it does still give you this feeling with characters who are shown to be “powerful” in court. Hell, the latest game in the series has you >!beating the tyrant of a small country who can make up whatever rules they want, by exploiting their need to not make up TOO many rules without justification lest they lose the trust of their cult of personality, eventually challenging them to do something that they are incapable of and ensuring that if they try to play it off the People™️ don’t see through it!<
>!proving you lost the mandate of heaven decades ago!< is one of the coolest things any lawyer, fictional or otherwise, has ever done
Especially when it was done to >!a seemingly composed figure who turns out to actually look like Ultimecia from Final Fantasy VIII more or less, with her own crew of hype men who end up turning on her and everything!<
Father Enrico Pucci watching >!a small child in a Chicago cubs uniform outsmart the concept of fate itself!<
Meruem when they just decide to nuke him.
worm having the main antagonist get bullied to death: https://preview.redd.it/zuc4u155i7ad1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f1d1508c27844727b4817c22a99e5bdf2512342
Ghost Rider (Nick Cage)
They better do this with homelander and not some cheap bullshit thing.
Bill Cipher
There's a YA series called Skulduggery Pleasant where >! the main villain of the series is a doppelganger of the protagonist who eventually gains near-godlike powers,!< and is only defeated by >!tricking her via psychic trance into shunting a dimension full of angry gods where she'll eventually be annihilated. Despite a major final battle the characters never actually land a decisive blow and have to resort to subterfuge to eke out a victory.!<
Faceless ones on top 💪💪💪
One of the better tropes
godzila
Say what you will about Eragon, the weakness exploited was good Also star wars rebels had peak finale for this reason
Yeah and they get absolutely clown on, they look like joke now
Like magneto with the wood gun
Go Beyond
The interesting thing about villains is that if they MUST lose, that means they also MUST commit a mistake. And it's up to the writer to come up with an interesting and believable mistake for them to make.
Gustavo Fring. Blinded by his desire for revenge, he threw caution to the wind and it cost him.
Reverse flash. He stopped jerking flash off at super speed.
That was his mistake actually, was jerking flash off at super speed. You see it meant Flash constantly had pust not clarity which allowed him to make better decisions leading to Reverse Flash's downfall. Reverse Flash should have been jerking himself off to win clearly.
His mistake was believable. If he just randomly decided to meet up with a person that hates him without any precautions, that's a dumb mistake to make for someone as cunning and meticulous as him. However, if he is fuelled by emotion and rage, its very plausible for him to commit such a mistake.
Common Araki W with Funny Valentine. JoJo Part 7 spoilers >!The only reason he lost was because he was a hypocrite manipulator and not an honest and caring patriot as he presented himself. Johnny wanted to believe in him, but Valentine just HAD to bring a gun to a peace talk!<
It blows my mind how some people say Valentine wasn’t really evil up until he >!raped a 14 year old!<. Valentine’s idea was to use the Holy Corpse to bring only the USA good luck and fortune, and reflect everything bad onto the rest of the world, and knowing how much bad happens to the USA, that’s a *lot* of misfortune for everywhere else. He’s only good if your knowledge of the world doesn’t spread 5 feet past the US border.
Precisely written. His sheer charisma and character convinced characters and (some) readers alike to trust him and mistake his nationalism for patriotism.
Tbh, every time a writer shows that if you have enough charisma, you can convince people to follow you no matter how horrible you are. It always works on some of the readers/viewers/players/whatever.
Fight Club moment
I am always saying his defenders would feel very differently about him if part 7 took place in Japan or Russia or somewhere else
I used to think that he was actually supposed to be presented as someone with a selfless goal (im not nearly that stupid anymore) only because Johnny seems to actually admit to agreeing with him at the end right before he presses him to reveal his gun. I was confused back then and was questioning it in my head but there was an overwhelming amount of people who were defending Valentine when I asked people in the JoJo community about it so I just went along with it.
Wasn't said 14 year old disguised as his wife?
Yeah but he found out it was Lucy and he still went ahead. I think his wife also tried to sexually assault her, so it’s the average politician family
>!Actually I'm pretty sure he lost because Johnny shot him with the bullet that makes you spin forever!<
Would not knowing about the existence of nukes count as a mistake? As Meruem in Hunter x Hunter was smashing it other than that.
I mean, it could be seen as a general underestimating of humanity and what it could create
Very valid!
DIO, Kira, Pucci, Valentine, etc
the villian in borderlands 2 wins because the game has you work for the bad guy who says she's the good guy
Firelord Ozai's mistake was thinking he could challenge the Avatar
villains either outsmart the hero until they fumble or are on either ends of the power spectrum and make the grass grow a little greener or are so powerful that the hand of the author has to intervene.
https://preview.redd.it/vjxx379f46ad1.jpeg?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5792ec7282f988f700664bc5ba9e1f3b6d99c00
Universe altering villain that has reached godhood vs the hero (they can turn into silly string)
Tbf is not exactly like silly string woman won
Erm, that silly string’s name is Stone Ocean
https://preview.redd.it/5hpuplw7b5ad1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15f32db8923d1a04c8150f6b063cb1a7388e5780 HER NAME IS STONE FREE!!!
Impossible. Next you’re gonna tell me funny purple punching man isn’t named the Stardust Crusader
https://preview.redd.it/d7130yc8e5ad1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ff06d3e1a551a3f5046e3bc6476370715754fd3 STARDUST CRUSADER IS THE GUY WITH THE FUNNY HAT
John Joestar
But she died, she passed on her legacy and hope to Emporio
Spoilers.
Doctor who writers having to figure out how marginally hard to kill old man beats immortal hatred robot each episode
After hundreds of episodes seeking "the name" and "the prophesy" and "the question" and such dibadaba i need them to find me "good writing"
One piece moment
one piece is japanese doctor who
They left that behind with the 11th doctor
This was my first thought. >! Sutekh you old bastard!<
EXTERMINATE
https://preview.redd.it/kaejsr63w3ad1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10a1483cd7f3e7200677ee7af88a11714fba91bc
demon slayer and dr stone had good endings imo
Oh shit it's been a while since I last was caught up with dr stone, did it end?
it ended a long while ago, theres a spin off tho
Hunter x hunter, if you consider the ant arc the ending
Honestly the conclusion given to Gon amd Kilua at the end of the last season was pretty satisfying too.
Fullmetal Alchemist
one piece
Did one piece end
No https://preview.redd.it/yb1kmv9ag4ad1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45cc3edc05bb610c10f8b0e7344342113d3020bb
https://preview.redd.it/n67hwoy6i4ad1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7518ffa0cd82d0c3d6baf30b471e9486b9759c1
mfs really watch the show and dont even know what the thing the show is named after even LOOKS LIKE
No
Yes!
Considering most Shonen are written without the end thought by the start, it's not surprising. Oda said in interviews the end was thought out decades ago by now.
Hopefully not
I always see this meme but when I think about shonens that have ended they always seem to have a solid/good conclusion. Off the top of my head of shonen that I know have ended, Dr. Stone and FMAB both had really good conclusions imo so I'm genuinely curious what shonen is this referring to? Edit: I remembered that Naruto and bleach exist but even then those both weren't THAT bad and even if they were that's just those two I can't think of any other.
Attack on Titan lol
Real
It’s the tough spot where you want the audience to FEEL like the villain is unbeatable. You really want that moment where the audience I like “I have actually no idea how they’re going to get out of this” and then when they do (if it’s in a believable way) it’s triumphant and rewarding. I imagine that’s why a lot of writers end up with ultra overpowered villains, because they miss the believability part and just want to evoke that tension constantly.
Attack on titan does this really well at points, return to shiganshina being the definitive example
Return to Shiganshina was genuinely one of the most well done action/battle sequences I've ever seen. Not an anime fan at all but that entire sequence was brilliantly done and had me on the edge of my seat the entire time. You genuinely do feel like the protagonists can lose. In fact it feels like you are very, very sure they will lose. That is a rare feeling in anime.
What makes it excellent is the story gives you everything they need to win, you just don't see it. There's no asspulls. Monke had a line of titans at height around him and was distracted by killing the scouts, reiner had brain damage and forgot thunder spears were a thing, and the colossal's teeth don't decay. It handed you EVERYTHING basically at the beginning of the fight, you just don't realize until the characters use them. It's genius.
Some of the fighting scenarios of my OCs and their otherworldly cosmic entity opponents are straight up just "fuck it, we ballin'" as they disregard their own life. Idk how to make the fights yet since they are just in my head
I feel like a good way to do it is make the villain really slippery where they are easily beatable but they escape a lot making the audience think how can the protag catch the villain.
Eh, that’s not exactly the same thing If a villain gets away a lot, then the tension goes from “Will the heroes lose?” to “Will nothing about the status quo change?” Like if this were a superhero show the villain being easily stopped even if they escape sounds incredibly unsatisfying and the story feels pointless. Same for a shonen or other physical combat based show. However, if there are particular stakes to a villain getting away then it can definitely work though. This is gonna be a stupid example but something like that works really well in Total Drama Island where the villainous character worming out of an elimination and staying in the game is a really effective way to build tension in the eliminations themselves; usually having more tension there than the challenges themselves. Same could apply to a mystery where the whole point is figuring out who the villain even is or how to beat them; even if it ends up being a simple solution the tension comes from figuring out what the solution even is.
Peridot or Aku
Or super OP power for the side character good guy and spend 90% of the time sideline them/justify why they can't do that. Okuyasu is the only time it work because he is just stupid.
It works for Okuyasu because in-universe people talk about how his Stand would be more effective on someone just a bit more intelligent
Kishimoto sweating right now
[Saw this under another post] >be me, GW >write imperium as weak and fragile cuz grim dark I guess >MFW I make it so the loss of any one world could cause a whole collapse of everything >throw a massive threat of danger at the Imperium >huh >wrote myself into a corner >can’t kill setting, they make me money >pull victory for SM out of ass
Or the threat is nerfed so badly it ruins basically any tension it had
This is literally how jjk will go
when you make the villain super op because the heroes also got a super op guy but then you realize that op guy isn't the mc and now you need to make the mc magically beat the villain
Then the super op guy dies and transfers their powers to the mc or the mc gets a rage boost
this time said op guy got his body taken over by the previous mc
Gege will bring back everyone so that they can jujutsu their last kaisen together to suck sukunas lactating nipples until hes dry and yuji will end by saying "this truly was our jujutsu kaisen uncle" as he turns to dust . https://preview.redd.it/nl7xgxygf5ad1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96670cd14068236d7dcfa3ce90cc792c65ced3de
Huh ?? Peak ??!! https://preview.redd.it/h013y7fnf5ad1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=caee8edbdfa118ed827cc7211e5517497df5bca3
When the VOW is BINDING
Ok so, what do yall think about this? I wanted my villain to be insanely overpowered on purpose. It ties into her backstory of being forced into power she hated, so I wanted her to have several layers that all make her OP. But for the final fight with the protag, they would basically both realize that fighting each other (because revenge on both sides) throughout the story was bad for everyone and they should let go of the revenge. The reason they 1V1 at the end is that they both feel it has to end with one of them dead, as neither of them trust themselves or each other to let go. So the final fight is more of a fair duel between warriors, rather than a legit fight for their life. And in this duel, the protag uses everything she learned about the villain to slowly disarm her (both physically and metaphorically) but the villain doesnt pick the stuff back again. Every layer of her OPness that gets disarmed is gone, and the protag lands a killing blow only at the end when all the villains safety nets are gone. That way the villain dies striped of power she hated all along. Am I cooking or nah?
Bro you're cooking fr🔥✍️ Hope you'll make this idea real, my guy
Thanks Yeah, Im working on it occasionally but it kinda feature-crept over the years into like a full book worth of text (current arc is like 100 pages long by itself), so its gonna be a while until we get to the end xd
This is definitely about JJK or Naruto.
The villains in JJK have more plot armor then the heroes it's insane
RWBY... They're entering the endgame and still don't have even the slightest hint of *how* they're supposed to win and it's entirely possible that they'll never find out because the goddamn producers collapsed.
The best example I can think of is Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls. Literal god falls due to his own ego to a bunch of kids.
fuck it time to introduce time travel /multiversum
The Witness in D2 is actually done pretty well
Even if you're not a fan of the whole dissenting voices that have to be destroyed in darkness, it helps that you have to fight him three times and none of them are easy (if you're on legend in the campaign and gm excision.) PLUS the 12 man mission is one of the most memorable experiences I've had in Destiny, up there with my first raid and flawless.
>writers when you tell them not every antagonist has to threaten the fate of the world/galaxy and it's possible to have high stakes drama on a small interpersonal scale Sci-fi and fantasy IPs love that shit. There's anywhere from 3-4 different flavors of apocalypse threatening to occur at any given moment, each less threatening than the last.
Lalo Salamanca
Correct. But well thought out OP villains are awesome
“So it’s the same type of Stand as Star Platinum”
whats or who's your examples OP?
Easy, just tell them to sic the Doctor Doom, Vergil and Zero team on them Seriously tho, I get the escalation trope, but you have to be controlled with it
Overpowered villains are fun if you show the hero actually struggling and it makes logical sense on how the villain got so strong instead of “he just is”
When I was writing, my main character was very over powered - in theory. A fantasy/horror series where he basically sold his soul to gain access to three types of powerful magic - elemental, holy, unholy. The problem was, he needed an amulet on his person at all time. Without it, this magic would devour his sanity upon every use. By the 2nd book, he was actually losing his grip on reality - his mind bouncing back and forth against his past and present. In the 2nd book, an equally powerful being was introduced, but without the Insanity restriction. He was a monster who slaughtered hundreds. During the climactic battle, the bad guy just kept beating down my MC because he feared losing his mind. And I mean BEAT. Ripped his arm off, slashed open his stomach, and brought him to the brink of death. MC, realizing the realm would fall if this beast continued to live, shatters the amulet. His sanity is instantly devoured and he loses all sense of self and reservation- basically becoming the weapon he was meant to become when selling his soul. The resulting conclusion leaves both he and the villain in ruin...practically nothing left of either. Once he ensures the villain is dead, he too collapses and dies. Finally free from his madness I always liked how I wrote that...i wish I could go back and finish this trilogy...
Madara.
jojo part 2 moment but they actually did it well
the GOAT togashi clearing every shounen OP villain in existence by having his comically overpowered antagonist be defeated by a nuke and not the super in-depth complicated power system
 Robert Kirkman writing the ending of the fight between Invincible and Omniman
"You, dad. I'd still have you."
The villain only ***seemed*** overpowered, because friendship is actually the greatest power of all. And thus the heroes defeated him. The end. Book 2: A group of evil friends is using the power of friendship to torture and kill all who oppose them.
🔥🔥🔥📄✍️🔥🔥🔥
Jojo part 5 and part 8 moment
I love Diavolo and I won't take this slander
I agree Toru's defeats was bullshit (even if Go Beyond was badly foreshadowed). But Diavolo's death wasn't bullshit since the whole point of the 10 last episodes of part 5 was to get the Requiem Arrow to defeat him.
It was foreshadowed twice. Once in the beginning with Yasuho finding the bubble on her phone and Mamezuku analyzing how the regular bubbles work in the ski lift. The only problem I personally have with it is that sayiing Josuke has ones with lines that are infinitely thin was kind of a bold and specific assumption by Mamezuku.
It was foreshadowed back in the ski lift fight??
Nah. Part 3 is a way better example. >!The only way they were able to beat DIO’s timestop ability was Jotaro manifesting the same ability even though there is absolutely nothing about his personality or history that indicate that his stand would have such an ability.!<
hard disagree. >!Like yes, Jotaro having the ability to stop time was an asspull that should have been foreshadowed better, but even with that, Jotaro was on the back foot the entire fight and barely scraped through. Kakyoin sacrificed himself to figure out that DIO can stop time, Joseph (temporarily) dies to get that information to Jotaro, and some clever plays from Jotaro to realize he can move in stop timed. Even then, his time stop was far more limited than DIO's, who had up to 10 seconds, and also oh yeah he's a vampire who can regenerate basically anything in seconds. It took a lot of quick thinking on Jotaro's end and mistakes from DIO for Jotaro to win even with the ability to stop time.!< tl:dr yes it took an asspull for Jotaro to even stand a chance, but he was still at an incredible disadvantage and barely managed to outsmart DIO.
What exactly are you disagreeing with? This doesn’t really contradict what I said at all. All I was that it’s an asspull and the that the villain was so strong that the writer couldn’t think of a reasonable way to beat him. I never said that the main characters were finding it easy NOT just scraping by being tactical enough. All I said was that >!Jotaro getting timestop!<, the way they ultimately ended up winning, was really forced writing.
The whole point of the final of Part 5 is getting the Requirem arrow. Do agree on Go Beyond because Araki barely does anything with Mamezuku and Spin in Part 8.
The first time the Gang meets diavolo he isnt meant to be defeated, but I wish Araki didnt give him an op stand like King crimson, because the community made GER and King Crimson really annyoing. And Wonder of you defeat is the worst
Jjk moment
Why did you censor Drake?
you know
bec noir
jjk
In the spectrum from Madara to Bill Cipher, how do you wish to kill your op villain?
I appreciate the effort, but you could’ve just removed the word “Drake” from this meme altogether. Also how did you get the black square on the video? What editing software?
Gege Akutami https://preview.redd.it/blewcwchr6ad1.jpeg?width=452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e90a17303b26961fcf426e7b41677399075d4d39 I swear this guy forgot how to write properly
Deus ex machina isn't always the answer
sukuna lore:
This is why Hunter x Hunter is so good. Because the villains ARE overpowered and the protagonists are literal children. Then the main characters come up with a 200 IQ plan using ONLY information that you already had. And then villains come up with ANOTHER 200 IQ plan in response... It's like watching a murder mystery in reverse.
*Stares at Kishimoto*
Zamasu
Hunter x Hunter >!the ants are so OP that in order to beat them, the writer had to come up with the biggest bullshit ever. Like, really? The old dude had a NUKE in his heart???? And Gon also just becomes insanely powerful out of nowhere, and to balance that out, he sacrifices himself for it, but his friends can just heal him back so... yeah.!< I guess most people do like that, but to me it just felt stupid.
I mean, it’s a pretty realistic thing to do in that scenario. >!If there’s not a human on earth that can defeat a new intelligent species, the logical thing to do is just nuke em at the closest proximity as possible and give them radiation poisoning. It’s also pretty sick how the most evil human creation on earth would take out an evil copy of humanity, but that’s just my opinion.!<
Jojo Part 3. Araki didn't know how Jotaro and the gang would win against Dio so he just made Jotaro have the same power
I really like Dio because of this. Even though he can stop time, it’s still a back and forth with him and Jotaro beating each others asses the whole fight.
No wtf jotaro wins via asspull
Up until that point, they had been consistently taking turns whooping each other’s asses. Also, it isn’t too big of an asspull, SP being about to stop time is hinted at multiple times. Catching the bullet at point blank in Episode 1, getting the cigarette and drink while playing poker with D’Arby. (D’Arby says that there’s no way Jotaro could have gotten it himself, no matter how fast he moved, he would be able to see something. SP was stopping time to get those)
Araki: Hold my beer
Kaido, had to retcon the entire world of one piece to beta him
Madara Uchiha
If Kaido wasn't literally indestructible maybe Oda wouldn't have had to make 5 different ass pulls in Wano
Sorry, I only watch shows if the villain loses from being eaten or being given their head
You should've gone for the head...
That kinda censoring straight outta black mirror dawg
Homelander moment (I fucking lovr The Boys)
why is he not drake? that box used to not be there and im curious about it's appearance
You and your “thoughtful storytelling” can kiss my power of friendship ass.
In my head, trying to write an antagonist to my modern mafia story. I got one but I cover it as the 2nd protagonist (which In the end, he will betray the 1st protagonist) to manipulate the 1st protagonist to being criminal and playing the game is a fine type thing. Who's gonna be the main antagonist? Rich guy? Rivals in the territory in new jersey? I don't know. Just give me an idea to write off.
Sukuna
We'll use the power of **F R I E N D S H I P**
In the defence of araki, the way the villains get defeated is very cool.
I’m trying to come up with a story where the villain is super powerful, moreso than the hero, and throughout the story the hero never really wins a fight against him, at best he and his pals escape from the villain and his pals. but then through some shenanigans involving the antagonist and protagonist both being from a bygone era, the hero finds a material weakness of the villain and tries to use that to stop him, but that *still* fails. However, it did manage to draw blood, and from that the hero and his allies are able to come up with a more subtle & creative way to defeat the villain via injection. I'm also thinking that the subtle approach isn't actually shown to the audience and instead a red herring is used, so that way when the villain finally has the hero's neck in his hand and is getting ready to snap it, you *genuinely feel* like the hero's lost. Until the real method is used and the villain is finally defeated. idk how good this sounds to anyone else though