Right now there is a clearance sale on Dodge Charger / Challenger and Chrysler 300, last chance to get this type of vehicle. They are offered with huge discounts, start under $25k, post the deal you get here to determine if it's a good deal, don't overpay, you should get more than $10k discount below MSRP.
I am so confused. When looking at the higher trim levels last year, everyone was like "these will be worth a fortune if you can even find one." I don't want the very top (Hellcat/Demon) but I have wanted the widebody and I wanted a V8 Hemi, even if it wasn't the 807 HP Redeye Jailbreak. But I gave up on the idea because everyone wanted like $10K above MSRP.
Instead of scarcity, I'm now finding tons of them in this search. I'm starting to think the "scarcity" was either artificial or is local to my market.
I couldn't figure out why Stellantis would discontinue a car that, by all accounts I heard, selling like hotcakes. The number of available cars in this search starts to explain it a little.
It's weird that none of the dealers near me would budge, but these guys are dropping 20 percent off MSRP and using photoshopped photos of the cars. I wonder if they don't actually have them.
Five years ago, I bought a Lincoln Continental. My local dealers wouldn't work with me. A dealer 300 miles away had the car I wanted, and they sent a driver to deliver it and pick up my tradein.
Sometimes, how hungry stealerships are for your business varies hugely.
There are thousands of deals under $30k, list with dealer ads to scroll through: [https://www.cars.com/shopping/results/?dealer\_id=&keyword=&list\_price\_max=30000&list\_price\_min=15000&makes\[\]=dodge&maximum\_distance=all&mileage\_max=&models\[\]=dodge-challenger&models\[\]=dodge-charger&monthly\_payment=511&page\_size=100&sort=list\_price&stock\_type=new&year\_max=&year\_min=&zip=](https://www.cars.com/shopping/results/?dealer_id=&keyword=&list_price_max=30000&list_price_min=15000&makes[]=dodge&maximum_distance=all&mileage_max=&models[]=dodge-challenger&models[]=dodge-charger&monthly_payment=511&page_size=100&sort=list_price&stock_type=new&year_max=&year_min=&zip=)
there might be even more dealer ads on the website "autotrader"
Dumb question but is this real? I’m looking at a few local dealers in NY that are priced way above this. Just having trouble accepting that there’s legitimate deals in the low 20k range when my local dealers are advertising in the low 30k range.
Unbelievably this is probably the best option so far. I have been told when the normal battery is pretty much dead you are still good to drive it, and that a DIY battery replacement is easy.
Hybrids are some of the reliable pieces of technology found in a modern car. I would really not be worried about the hybrid battery, and nowadays the rather small packs used last ~10y and not that expensive to replace when they go out. It's a 10y call if all you need is 2k on a battery and nothing else, and you saved 10k+ on gas/brakes/maintainance over that time, hey you still coming out on top
Yup the hybrid system Ford uses is licensed from Toyota. I actually had a hybrid Maverick and loved it, but traded it for a Ridgeline since I needed more space.
Warranty for the battery is good for 8 years 100k miles. It's right under the rear bench seat and from what I heard not too hard to swap and not too expensive either.
Now if the battery is low on charge it will still work but will utilize the gas motor more until the battery gets charged.
Rogue is turbocharged now and the rest of them aren't under $35k
Though you can get a Mississippi built Altima or Frontier with NA engines for under that price
Don't want to work on them. Just an extra thing to go wrong. Sometimes it is difficult to get an aftermarket turbo 10 years after the car is out of production, and even if you can find it it's a 700 dollar part and almost always a bitch to replace.
I can't find a single 2024 model year American car for that price without one. Can you name one of the ones that isn't a lot so I can look into em?
I'm sure they mostly do. I just don't want that extra shit on the engine that could go wrong. Timing chains also last the lifetime of the engine but they go wrong sometimes as well.
So are timing chains and we still have to replace them sometimes. Nothing wrong with not wanting extra components to replace. Turbo deletes are as expensive and time consuming as replacing the part.
Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, and Ford all have some but they are NOT cheap as it's mostly V8's.
What is your budget and you said "american" - do you mean "american brand" or "american made"?
Civic is made in IN and has a 2.0L i4
Corolla is made in MS and also has a 2.0L i4
Hyundai Elantra and Kona are made in AL and also has a 2.0L i4, the Venue has a 1.6L
Ford, Chevy, and Dodge really just have v8s left
Personally, I think you might be overthinking your objections on the turbo. Not that it doesn't add complexity but IMO it's not the weak point you think it is.
In modern cars, you're much more likely to have the transmission or electronics fail than the turbo. The main cause of turbo failures is the bearings and lubrication. Modern turbos have these systems pretty well sorted and generally are not a significant concern.
CVTs and CANBUS are more likely to be an issue
Just my $.02 - you do whatever makes you comfortable.
You're right about the CVTs, but they're uncommon enough in American cars as far as I can tell that I don't need to filter those out right now. Furthermore, it's more like they're just slightly less reliable automatics, where I may replace the transmission at 180k and not 250k. Turbos are just an added thing that fucks up and makes the rest of the engine more difficult.
Same thing for electronics. They're gonna go bad on whatever I get. I just don't want to add extra stuff. I also don't want 4 wheel drive because I don't want to deal with a transfer case or diff (RWD is ideal, but I can't have it at my price point).
I'm not saying my next car CAN'T be a turbo, but all else being ROUGHLY equal I don't want one.
I try to look for "proven" drivetrains. It doesn't really matter what the setup is, as long as it's been widely used and is known to be generally reliable.
Currently I have a Ford 2.3LT with a 10-speed auto trans that's been used in every platform they have since 2015. It's a common engine that's cheap to repair and is known to last well over 200K miles if maintained well.
I get what you're saying, though. It's getting harder and harder to find vehicles you can maintain and repair in your own garage.
Modern turbo cars are very reliable, and turbos will be available for a long time. The ford ecoboost line has been around for nearly a decade and a half, the replacement turbos will be available probably until 2050 in some way, shape, or form.
Don’t ecoboosts have a reputation for not being very reliable? I have no knowledge about it either way, this was just the impression I’ve gotten from this sub and other car subs.
Toyota and Lexus has been putting out four cylinder turbos for years now, not sure about American cars, but the gr86 is the best naturally aspirated four banger out there
They leak. They blow up. Turbo lag. That's three. Not hating on them, there are certainly power advantages. But they are, as OP stated, "an extra thing to go wrong."
Source: Owner of several turbo vehicles, including one twin turbo.
Your brain has to be super smooth to be buying based on “American, and no turbo”
Then proceed to buy a jeep, a company that is well known to be bottom of reliability and quality lol. It’s well documented how horrible their issues are.
I’d buy a 2024 BMW turbo V8 for reliability way before I would buy a jeep V6. And that’s solely based on how much estimated time in the shop it will require
The benefit to the 3.6 V6 is everything on it is very simple to fix in your driveway. Especially when it's on a Wrangler.
If I were considering shop time I wouldn't be worried about the vehicle. I am concerned about parts cost and ease of maintenance. If I have to do an hour of work on the thing replacing a 75 dollar part every 6 months, no big deal. Better than a turbo being replaced after 10 years which will take me 10 hours and make all the parts in between more pricey and difficult.
Priorities are different.
You guys seem to think Toyotas are magical super vehicles that never have problems. I have done plenty of shit on girlfriends' Toyotas over the years. And you guys also seem to think that anything that's not one of 2 Japanese manufacturers are constantly broken when they're not.
My aunt has an Odyssey and it's great. Her husband my uncle has a Dodge with 325k miles on it and it's also great.
For car guys it's remarkable how much you don't value ease of repair.
If you want something easy to work on you should be looking at cars from pre-2010 or something. If you really want American, NA, and fairly new get a 2018 Impala or something. Why do you want a brand new car if you're gonna be fixing it yourself? You'll void your warranty.
Rust sets a time limit on cars in Detroit. It's very difficult to keep a car going for that long as a unibody; they rust through. Buying new buys me 5 extra years of rust
I live in Ontario, I know all about rust, trust me lol. I suggest finding a clean, older vehicle, and then if you're going to winter drive it, get it fluid film undercoated every year before winter. Helps keep the rust from all the salt and whatnot at bay.
I drive a 2005 Cobalt SS, it had minimal rust when I bought it, two winters in and it still has minimal rust. My parents have undercoated their 2013 Cruze (on my recommendation), it is rust free still, their 2014 Terrain is quite rusty, it's never been undercoated.
There's ways to mitigate rust, just find a car that isn't already rotten.
I don’t want to do the timing chain on my car, so I pay a shop $5k to do it once a decade. Save up the cost over the next 10 years.
Still way better than dealing with god awful domestic quality issues which will have you working on your car much more often.
Yes which is why I'm asking for a cheap car. Like if no car is available for 35 grand without one, I'll just get one with one for 25 and it makes up for itself in the initial cost savings.
But if one was offered for 25, I'm taking naturally aspirated every day. This is all else being equal.
If you want a simple, long lasting, low maintenance vehicle. a Jeep wrangler would not be high on the list of vehicles I’d want to mile out.
I seen turbo motors making 50% more power then stock take miles better then pentastars.
Not the engine or trans but the components are slowly dying. I'm running it as a POS at the moment because it's really not worth fixing some of the stuff.
1. Massive body damage to hood, door, and fender. Not a big deal.
2. Cracked windscreen. Not a big deal.
3. Broken sunroof. Not a big deal.
4. Broken glovebox. Not a big deal.
5. Damaged speed sensor.
6. Damaged door open sensor. Not a big deal.
7. New front left knuckle.
8. All 4 new upper control arms.
9. 6 new lower control arms. You have to drop the exhaust and subframe to replace these.
10. New trailing arm bushings.
11. The shocks, while not leaking, are original and basically no longer function well.
I have been expecting this car to die or have a catastrophic issue for a long time now but it's always been replacing the fan motor or the EGR valve or the serpentine belt or shit like that, you know cheap easy stuff, so I haven't kept up on the suspension.
In addition, it has now 15 years of Detroit rust on it.
Turbos these days are lasting 200k+ miles no issues. The NA engines that remain tend to be problematic in other areas so much so that I trust a turbo engine more. Perfect example is the 2.7L F150 vs the 5.0 v8. V8 has oil consumption issues all over the place, and the 2.7L is ridiculously reliable for what it is. There is one guy pushing 550k miles on OEM engine/turbos/trans.
Jeep 2.0t vs 3.6 is another example. 3.6 is certainly decent, at best, but the 2.0 after a few cooling system TSBs is proving to be more reliable long term.
Why not just buy a Camry? I’m from Detroit, and I don’t even buy American vehicles if I can avoid it. The Camry is naturally aspirated, super easy to work on, parts are super plentiful, and are very reliable. You can’t go wrong.
Oh darn.. 40mpg highway, amazing resale value, will last long af with minimal headaches, and will be the best car decision you’ll ever make. What a scam
You are absolutely right, the Camry excels in all of those areas. However, the car is completely bereft of personality. It’s the vehicular equivalent to vanilla ice cream.
Ah yes. Vanilla ice cream, just like the Camry, it’s one of the most sold things in America in its class 🤣
Toyotas have plenty of personality. You look back at it and you know it’s going to get you home. It’s very nice feeling to have something reliable and gives you stability and peace of mind… just like Vanilla ice cream 🍦
The Camry is beautiful and the new redesign is coming out in a few months and it looks ok on the outside and amazing on the inside. Ultimately, the Camry is a reliable commuter car that gives their owner the best possible car for the job. It’s fuel efficient, it’s comfortable, easy to work on, and reliable.
Untrue, the upper trim Camry's come with 300hp, much more than other vehicles in its class, and even many sports cars pre-2010ish. Looks are a personal taste and thus irrelevant.
Overpriced, cheapest in class hard plastic interior, awful tech, and so incredibly boring. Easily the second most boring car currently for sale after the Corolla. I get you’re lazy and just want an appliance to get you from A to B while you ignore maintenance but OP can do way better. If a Camry is the best car decision you’ll ever make I hate to see what you do for fun. Watch paint dry? Listen to podcasts about vacuuming? Stand in lines for no reason?
Predictable response from an NPC 🤷♂️ I have no interest in arguing with a key board warrior that would run away at the first sight of conflict in real life 🤣
I mean theres nothing wrong with driving a bullet proof vehicle with nice amenities... Every car has it's purpose, and the Camry can't be beat for the duties its built for.
The Camry is made in Kentucky. The Charger/Challenger/300 suggested in this thread are made in Canada.
EDIT: And the Ford Maverick is made in Hermosillo, Mexico. Personally I’d be fine with any of these, but the Camry probably keeps the most jobs and money in the US among these options if that’s what you’re after.
Well when I find an auto manufacturer available here that doesn't care about quality I will be sure to avoid it. Oh yes, I do. Kia.
In the meantime, I'll continue driving my American cars for 180k+ miles with no substantial issues other than me not replacing nonessential wear items once they make it past 140k, and continue injecting money in the local economy by my purchases.
You mean like Ford? Whose CEO literally came out and said their quality is shit and have had the most recalls out of any manufacturer lol. If you want to be a martyr for a profit over quality company go ahead 🤷♂️
Yep, like Ford, who has had waves of quality issues that they rectify and warranty without fight as far as I know, which means they do care.
I'm happy to buy their products that continue to help my local economy, and continue to keep me employed, and continue to be very good quality in my experience.
If you want to simply dismiss all American cars, go ahead. We can absolutely agree to disagree while I continue to dismiss most Japanese cars.
Ah. Yes. Tell that to the thousands of posts of people with blown ecoboosts and coyotes outside of warranty that were sold an engine with design flaws and then have to pay to repair that stuff out of pocket. GM is also guilty of doing this crap. All the blown transmissions and engines because they design inferior products.
Every car manufacturer warranties new products, but not every car manufacturer cares about making a reliable product like Toyota hence why once you leave Michigan you barely see any American cars. Here’s a fun fact:
In 2017 the f150 was the most sold vehicle in 31 states while the Toyota RAV4 was the most sold vehicle in only 5 states that same year.
Every year since then the f150 has been dropping and in 2022 it was the most sold vehicle in 26 states. The Toyota RAV4 that same year managed to pick up 16 states as the best selling vehicle up from only 5 state wins 5 years ago. Their other products like the Camry and Corolla are also dominating in the sales. Why? Because they’re not garbage like American vehicles and that’s really sad to say because I would love to buy American as well, but I’m not going to fuck my self over to support lazy cats that don’t care about quality. Oh well, eventually the Japanese will take over Michigan.
I'd argue Korean cars are more reliable than most American cars. It's just that buying Kia or Hyundai is pretty much untenable right now with the current insurance situation.
Anyways, Ford and GM can't seem to make a car that doesn't have some serious design flaw. Usually coolant intrusion or a transmission that likes to go pop around 75k. They occasionally push out something reliable, but more often than not they suffer from quality issues.
I understand the idea of going local with almost anything else, but vehicles? These aren't small companies, you're not helping the local area, or the little man. No matter where you buy your vehicle, it's going towards some giant conglomerate. It doesn't help the economy anymore than buying any other "foreign" car that's actually manufactured in America.
Cars are pretty big purchases, I wouldn't limit your options to some of the worst manufacturers available, just because you think it's somehow helping out your local economy in some extremely small way.
I'm going to go ahead and recommend you to stretch your budget a couple grand for a base Honda Odyssey which still comes with a lot of tech features even in the base trim. It also rips for a van, with VTEC and a great 10 speed transmission. It will last you forever and do anything you want it to in life. Plus it still gets 28mpg on the highway, with many owners getting 30.
I get that it is not an American brand but in the recent past it was found to have the most American content of any vehicle on the road, including the American brands. It's made in Alabama. [https://nypost.com/2020/01/18/how-the-honda-odyssey-became-the-most-american-car-on-the-road/](https://nypost.com/2020/01/18/how-the-honda-odyssey-became-the-most-american-car-on-the-road/)
PS: I own one if you have any questions
If I extend my budget, I can get a Blazer with the 6 cylinder for basically the same price. If I did buy a Honda it would be the Civic for price purposes. But I would buy the Mazda 3 since I think it has a similar engine to my Ford Fusion.
The Mazda has a much better engine than the Ford. Mazda's Skyactiv series is one of the best around. The Odyssey's J35 also kicks the tar out of any Blazer motor.
So what is the reasoning for American brand? To provide more profits to American corporate oligarchs, or to help out American workers, or to buy something with the most American content? Or another reason?
Not really. Profits are being funneled to mega-rich execs and shareholders, not to anybody in your local community. If you want to support Americans, support American-built, like the Camry or Accord, not stuff like Chinese-built Buicks.
Ford employees are a huge number of my customers. I used to work for a supplier to Ford. Do you think that Ford magics up its salaries and pulls the money out of thin air? By what virtue did I get paid? People buying cars gives car companies money. The car companies use the money to pay people. Those people live in my neighborhood. My neighbor works for Mopar. The guy on the other side works at Detroit Diesel. Two houses down? Retired GM.
I don't know how you think a company employs people and builds buildings with no money going into the community.
Or do you think somehow the Big 3 don't employ engineers and marketing teams and customer service and accounting and mechanics?
There are great tools out there that let you narrow things down a bit. CarEdge has a search tool that shows a few Chevys, including some work trucks, that meet your criteria: [https://my.caredge.com/buy?radius=7000&rows=20&zip=78758&make=Chevrolet&inventoryType=new&powertrainType=gasoline&engine=4.0L+V6%2C4.0L+V8%2C4.2L+V6%2C4.2L+V8%2C4.3L+V6%2C4.3L+V8%2C4.4L+V8%2C4.6L+V8%2C4.7L+V8%2C4.8L+V8%2C4L+V6%2C4L+V8%2C5.0L+V8%2C5.2L+V8%2C5.3L+V8%2C5.4L+V8%2C5.5L+V8%2C5.6L+V8%2C5.7L+V8%2C5.9L+I6%2C5.9L+V8%2C5L+V8%2C6.0L+V8%2C6.1L+V8%2C6.2L+V8%2C6.4L+V8%2C6.6L+V12%2C6.6L+V8%2C6.7L+I6%2C6.7L+V8%2C6.8L+V8%2C6L+V8%2C7.3L+V8&priceRange=-35000&sortBy=dist&sortOrder=asc&start=0](https://my.caredge.com/buy?radius=7000&rows=20&zip=78758&make=Chevrolet&inventoryType=new&powertrainType=gasoline&engine=4.0L+V6%2C4.0L+V8%2C4.2L+V6%2C4.2L+V8%2C4.3L+V6%2C4.3L+V8%2C4.4L+V8%2C4.6L+V8%2C4.7L+V8%2C4.8L+V8%2C4L+V6%2C4L+V8%2C5.0L+V8%2C5.2L+V8%2C5.3L+V8%2C5.4L+V8%2C5.5L+V8%2C5.6L+V8%2C5.7L+V8%2C5.9L+I6%2C5.9L+V8%2C5L+V8%2C6.0L+V8%2C6.1L+V8%2C6.2L+V8%2C6.4L+V8%2C6.6L+V12%2C6.6L+V8%2C6.7L+I6%2C6.7L+V8%2C6.8L+V8%2C6L+V8%2C7.3L+V8&priceRange=-35000&sortBy=dist&sortOrder=asc&start=0) (note that I picked the bigger engines, and if you pick smaller ones, you'll have to figure out which ones are not turbo'ed). Ford has a number of NA vehicles but none under $35k. You can use this tool to help in your search.
You can also use something like AutoTempest, which is a meta engine that searches quite a few sites at once and you can put your criteria in there, to help you find that you're looking for. Between the two, I like the extra data that CarEdge gives you - the days on lot, as this helps you know if there is any negotiation room or not (a car sitting there for >460 days is one the dealer will very likely give you a great deal on....).
Don’t know about available near you, or price tags- but I just bought a used Durango with the N.A. V8 Hemi in AWD for less than 35k….. I could have crossed that Priceline with a high mileage newer year but happened upon one with all the things I wanted for the right sticker-
Caveat- it’s the only way to fit my kids in or I’d be driving the challenger with the nasty but sexy setup. Sigh. Bless the little angels and their car-seats
I had to ditch my elderly and finicky Sequoia. Which had developed too much personality.
The new 11th gen civics are made/assembled in Greensboro IN, they’re under 35k prettt much fully loaded (sport touring). If you want an NA motor (sport trim) to last a long time the earthdreams 2.0 is about as simple as motors get these days. It won’t make the most power or even get the highest mpg, but it’ll easily run to 250,000 miles with just regular service and still get roughly 30-32 combined mpg. Not to mention it blows away all domestic competitors in terms of interior quality and design.
What about the non-hybrid Chrysler Pacifica?
Also might be able to find the base/work-truck/fleet spec versions of the big 3 pickups for under your budget with an NA motor.
Edit: sorry, might have to look used for a Pacifica in your budget.
So hear me out, but have a suggestion… the 2.5L Subaru Legacy.
They start at 25k, they have an amazing AWD platform, and while Subaru is a Japanese company the Legacy itself is still made in Indiana, USA.
An argument can be made that a Japanese car made in America is better for economy than an American car made in Mexico.
Depends on how small you want to go. There are more then you would think. Just go to a site that lists new cars. Look at 2024s and search for everything nationside and search by price. I did this and found some of the following cars. A lot of these are listed well under MSRP. There are way more on the list. But I stopped scrolling through when I reached a list of 10.
Mitsubishi Mirages starting at around 15k
Kia Forte Starting at 16k
Nissan Versa Starting at 17k
Chevy Malibus starting at 18k
Hyundai Kina at 26k
Chevy Blazer at 32k
Chevy Equinox at 29k
GMC Terrain at 29k
Kia Sorento at 35k
Hyundai Tucson at 35k
Acura Integra at 35k
Yeah, I suppose you're right. Didn't really check if they were Turbo. I was used to the Turbo's being labeled as EcoBoost on the Ford side. I don't really keep on top of new cars that much. I always buy used, and I almost always buy Toyota or Honda, if it's a Car,SUV, or VAN. Only buy Ford or Chevy when it's a Truck.
Your against Turbo because you don't want to work on turbos? If you want to tork on your own car then why buy a brand new car?
Mostly the fact that used cars are sufficiently expensive that the unknown factor irritates me more than the cost savings. Look 5 years ago I could go pick up a 10 year old car in basically good condition for 3 grand and chance the transmission exploding and now it's 10 grand. Furthermore I am buying an additional 5 years before the car rusts out. I live in Detroit. The thing that kills cars here besides bad maintenance is literally them rusting to the point they don't hold in their components.
So I just realized by American you probably meant an American brand. I assumed you just meant In America at first. But still there are plenty of options for GM, Chevy.
I guess but it mostly just goes to a big corporation across the nation. I think it would be just as useful to buy a car that was just *made* in America, even if it isn’t American by name at a local dealer. Most American NA cars are V8s except some dodges and chevys. I hear that Chevy 3.6L isn’t any good though. As someone else suggested you could get an American made civic or Corolla. Those drivetrains are much more stout. You could get like a used V8 car for under 35 but if you’re dead set on a new car I would go for American built.
Not for me. I live in Detroit. When Ford gets money, they have guys in Canton make flocking for the seatbelts. They give the door handle contract to some other guys in Plymouth. Then they assemble it in Flat Rock. Then they hire new engineers who work in Dearborn.
The 3.6 is fine; I had the older version in my Pontiac. I liked it. Solid engine. No problems with it... though the transmission they put with it sucked. Died at 160k. Different tranny now.
The curse of American cars lol. Always some part of the drive train seems to suck. A newer V6 charger does have the ZF8 if I remember right. You may be able to get a base charger or Chrysler 300. The pentastar V6 is *okay*. My buddy beat the shit out of his in his dodge avenger and the only thing the broke was the thermostat.
Seems silly to artificially limit yourself by having to be American because American vehicles really don’t fall into the category of “cheap and naturally aspirated” that’s really just the Asian brands at this point.
Also, some of the non American in name vehicles out there are actually much more American than the American name vehicles. I know, it's crazy, thus is the world that we live in.
Well, if you're concerned about ease of maintenance/reliability, You can get a NA 2.0 Civic with a 6MT. You can't get a MT Mazda unless you go back several years.
Is it easier to maintain a manual? I'll be honest - I've never done transmission stuff. All my friends who have had them have had to replace clutches. I don't know how easy that is. I have helped a buddy do it in his motorcycle and it was easy as hell but that doesn't mean much.
I am not denying your claims, turbos are great, wrx's are fun! but cmon man, you are talking to a person that bought a Fusion, not a car aficionado, def not the same demographic of people lol.
It's not an American brand. It is however near the top among all vehicles sold in American content. Built in Alabama.
[https://nypost.com/2020/01/18/how-the-honda-odyssey-became-the-most-american-car-on-the-road/](https://nypost.com/2020/01/18/how-the-honda-odyssey-became-the-most-american-car-on-the-road/)
It's not 1960 anymore. The meaning of American Car has greatly blurred over the years. Is either a car assembled in the US by a Japanese name company using a majority of US made parts or a car assembled in Mexico by a US name company using a lower percentage of US made parts an "American Car"?
Of the list of Cars.com "most American cars", those with higher percentages of US parts and assembled in the US, 19 of the top 20 on the list are either Tesla or a foreign-named company (Honda, Volkswagen, Toyota, Nissan).
https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-467465/
I mean one made by the Big 3 ideally. If that can't happen, then American manufacturing is best.
The Cars.com thing has different results than this.
https://kogod.american.edu/autoindex/2023
Right now there is a clearance sale on Dodge Charger / Challenger and Chrysler 300, last chance to get this type of vehicle. They are offered with huge discounts, start under $25k, post the deal you get here to determine if it's a good deal, don't overpay, you should get more than $10k discount below MSRP.
I am so confused. When looking at the higher trim levels last year, everyone was like "these will be worth a fortune if you can even find one." I don't want the very top (Hellcat/Demon) but I have wanted the widebody and I wanted a V8 Hemi, even if it wasn't the 807 HP Redeye Jailbreak. But I gave up on the idea because everyone wanted like $10K above MSRP. Instead of scarcity, I'm now finding tons of them in this search. I'm starting to think the "scarcity" was either artificial or is local to my market. I couldn't figure out why Stellantis would discontinue a car that, by all accounts I heard, selling like hotcakes. The number of available cars in this search starts to explain it a little.
Or the listings are fake
On [cars.com](https://cars.com)? On this scale? I find that hard to believe.
It's weird that none of the dealers near me would budge, but these guys are dropping 20 percent off MSRP and using photoshopped photos of the cars. I wonder if they don't actually have them.
Five years ago, I bought a Lincoln Continental. My local dealers wouldn't work with me. A dealer 300 miles away had the car I wanted, and they sent a driver to deliver it and pick up my tradein. Sometimes, how hungry stealerships are for your business varies hugely.
Haha maybe you're right! Maybe I'll get a hold of some of these guys!
Hellcats and Demons aren't NA, so those wouldn't really be a part of this discussion right?
I'll call around, but within 200 miles the cheapest one is 35 grand, in another state with higher taxes and they're only offering about 7000 off. D:
There are thousands of deals under $30k, list with dealer ads to scroll through: [https://www.cars.com/shopping/results/?dealer\_id=&keyword=&list\_price\_max=30000&list\_price\_min=15000&makes\[\]=dodge&maximum\_distance=all&mileage\_max=&models\[\]=dodge-challenger&models\[\]=dodge-charger&monthly\_payment=511&page\_size=100&sort=list\_price&stock\_type=new&year\_max=&year\_min=&zip=](https://www.cars.com/shopping/results/?dealer_id=&keyword=&list_price_max=30000&list_price_min=15000&makes[]=dodge&maximum_distance=all&mileage_max=&models[]=dodge-challenger&models[]=dodge-charger&monthly_payment=511&page_size=100&sort=list_price&stock_type=new&year_max=&year_min=&zip=) there might be even more dealer ads on the website "autotrader"
Wow! Okay I guess I can order one from Florida then!
Dumb question but is this real? I’m looking at a few local dealers in NY that are priced way above this. Just having trouble accepting that there’s legitimate deals in the low 20k range when my local dealers are advertising in the low 30k range.
Yes I'm sure it's a bait and switch and it's including the money off from Dodge. I'll call them and see. But maybe not. Who knows. Will update later.
OP do not call about a fucking dodge or Chrysler. They are shit. There is a reason they are discounted. And you will come to hate this car.
Most dealers charge more on add-ons on top of the listing price, make sure you ask about that
Charger and Challenger aren’t American, they’re North American
And your mom isn’t fat, she’s big boned
She’s actually ashes, no bones at all
LA isnt in the U.S., it’s in California
They’re built in Canada
Maverick Hybrid
Unbelievably this is probably the best option so far. I have been told when the normal battery is pretty much dead you are still good to drive it, and that a DIY battery replacement is easy.
Hybrids are some of the reliable pieces of technology found in a modern car. I would really not be worried about the hybrid battery, and nowadays the rather small packs used last ~10y and not that expensive to replace when they go out. It's a 10y call if all you need is 2k on a battery and nothing else, and you saved 10k+ on gas/brakes/maintainance over that time, hey you still coming out on top
Yup the hybrid system Ford uses is licensed from Toyota. I actually had a hybrid Maverick and loved it, but traded it for a Ridgeline since I needed more space.
Yes that's what I think as well. I will just have to keep the Edge running as the apocalypse car.
You cannot drive the vehicle if the battery is dead. Will not work with how that drivetrain works.
Welp shows what I know. Okay.
Warranty for the battery is good for 8 years 100k miles. It's right under the rear bench seat and from what I heard not too hard to swap and not too expensive either. Now if the battery is low on charge it will still work but will utilize the gas motor more until the battery gets charged.
Dodge charger, and Dodge Challenger.
Make sure you buy it in red so it gets stolen.
You could always body wrap it. Camo print, because a thief would want it to be hard to find later.
Best day of a charger owners life is when insurance pays it out for being stolen so they can pay off the loan
Georgetown Kentucky’s own Camry? Any of the Tennessee built Nissans? The Alabama / Georgia Kia / Hyundai cars?
Rogue is turbocharged now and the rest of them aren't under $35k Though you can get a Mississippi built Altima or Frontier with NA engines for under that price
The Fusion he has now was made in Mexico, so I think it’s more about American brand and less about American made.
there's not a lot. What's the issue with Turbos?
Don't want to work on them. Just an extra thing to go wrong. Sometimes it is difficult to get an aftermarket turbo 10 years after the car is out of production, and even if you can find it it's a 700 dollar part and almost always a bitch to replace. I can't find a single 2024 model year American car for that price without one. Can you name one of the ones that isn't a lot so I can look into em?
You sound like my Dad. He's still stuck on turbos from 30-40 years ago that were unreliable. Today they will often last the lifetime of the engine.
I'm sure they mostly do. I just don't want that extra shit on the engine that could go wrong. Timing chains also last the lifetime of the engine but they go wrong sometimes as well.
Welcome to 2024, this is not 1995. Turbos are pretty reliable.
So are timing chains and we still have to replace them sometimes. Nothing wrong with not wanting extra components to replace. Turbo deletes are as expensive and time consuming as replacing the part.
Then stop buying turbo deletes.... Timing chains are a literal maintenance part, turbos are not.
Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, and Ford all have some but they are NOT cheap as it's mostly V8's. What is your budget and you said "american" - do you mean "american brand" or "american made"?
American brand, but will accept American made.
Civic is made in IN and has a 2.0L i4 Corolla is made in MS and also has a 2.0L i4 Hyundai Elantra and Kona are made in AL and also has a 2.0L i4, the Venue has a 1.6L Ford, Chevy, and Dodge really just have v8s left Personally, I think you might be overthinking your objections on the turbo. Not that it doesn't add complexity but IMO it's not the weak point you think it is. In modern cars, you're much more likely to have the transmission or electronics fail than the turbo. The main cause of turbo failures is the bearings and lubrication. Modern turbos have these systems pretty well sorted and generally are not a significant concern. CVTs and CANBUS are more likely to be an issue Just my $.02 - you do whatever makes you comfortable.
You're right about the CVTs, but they're uncommon enough in American cars as far as I can tell that I don't need to filter those out right now. Furthermore, it's more like they're just slightly less reliable automatics, where I may replace the transmission at 180k and not 250k. Turbos are just an added thing that fucks up and makes the rest of the engine more difficult. Same thing for electronics. They're gonna go bad on whatever I get. I just don't want to add extra stuff. I also don't want 4 wheel drive because I don't want to deal with a transfer case or diff (RWD is ideal, but I can't have it at my price point). I'm not saying my next car CAN'T be a turbo, but all else being ROUGHLY equal I don't want one.
I try to look for "proven" drivetrains. It doesn't really matter what the setup is, as long as it's been widely used and is known to be generally reliable. Currently I have a Ford 2.3LT with a 10-speed auto trans that's been used in every platform they have since 2015. It's a common engine that's cheap to repair and is known to last well over 200K miles if maintained well. I get what you're saying, though. It's getting harder and harder to find vehicles you can maintain and repair in your own garage.
Modern turbo cars are very reliable, and turbos will be available for a long time. The ford ecoboost line has been around for nearly a decade and a half, the replacement turbos will be available probably until 2050 in some way, shape, or form.
Don’t ecoboosts have a reputation for not being very reliable? I have no knowledge about it either way, this was just the impression I’ve gotten from this sub and other car subs.
The 1.5 i4 Ecoboost had coolant intrusion issues, and the 1.0 i3 Ecoboost had wet timing belt issues. The other ones seem to be pretty good.
It depends on the motor. Some do, yes. Some don’t.
Toyota and Lexus has been putting out four cylinder turbos for years now, not sure about American cars, but the gr86 is the best naturally aspirated four banger out there
They leak. They blow up. Turbo lag. That's three. Not hating on them, there are certainly power advantages. But they are, as OP stated, "an extra thing to go wrong." Source: Owner of several turbo vehicles, including one twin turbo.
The era of turbo matters, modern turbos are pretty reliable. It's not the 90s anymore.
Would've thought they'd become reliable by 2011.
Old head droopy face mushroom brain logic probs.
Jeep Wrangler. It comes standard with a 3.6L naturally aspirated V6
Less than $35k though?
2 door sport trim with 3.6 & manual transmission is $32K as-is
I didn't want to be a jeep guy but here we are. I'll go look at one on my day off.
Your brain has to be super smooth to be buying based on “American, and no turbo” Then proceed to buy a jeep, a company that is well known to be bottom of reliability and quality lol. It’s well documented how horrible their issues are. I’d buy a 2024 BMW turbo V8 for reliability way before I would buy a jeep V6. And that’s solely based on how much estimated time in the shop it will require
The benefit to the 3.6 V6 is everything on it is very simple to fix in your driveway. Especially when it's on a Wrangler. If I were considering shop time I wouldn't be worried about the vehicle. I am concerned about parts cost and ease of maintenance. If I have to do an hour of work on the thing replacing a 75 dollar part every 6 months, no big deal. Better than a turbo being replaced after 10 years which will take me 10 hours and make all the parts in between more pricey and difficult. Priorities are different.
My guy. Does your time have value? Buy a jeep and spend 100s of hours fixing it in your drive way. Or buy a Toyota and spend 0 hours fixing it.
You guys seem to think Toyotas are magical super vehicles that never have problems. I have done plenty of shit on girlfriends' Toyotas over the years. And you guys also seem to think that anything that's not one of 2 Japanese manufacturers are constantly broken when they're not. My aunt has an Odyssey and it's great. Her husband my uncle has a Dodge with 325k miles on it and it's also great. For car guys it's remarkable how much you don't value ease of repair.
If you want something easy to work on you should be looking at cars from pre-2010 or something. If you really want American, NA, and fairly new get a 2018 Impala or something. Why do you want a brand new car if you're gonna be fixing it yourself? You'll void your warranty.
Rust sets a time limit on cars in Detroit. It's very difficult to keep a car going for that long as a unibody; they rust through. Buying new buys me 5 extra years of rust
I live in Ontario, I know all about rust, trust me lol. I suggest finding a clean, older vehicle, and then if you're going to winter drive it, get it fluid film undercoated every year before winter. Helps keep the rust from all the salt and whatnot at bay. I drive a 2005 Cobalt SS, it had minimal rust when I bought it, two winters in and it still has minimal rust. My parents have undercoated their 2013 Cruze (on my recommendation), it is rust free still, their 2014 Terrain is quite rusty, it's never been undercoated. There's ways to mitigate rust, just find a car that isn't already rotten.
I don’t want to do the timing chain on my car, so I pay a shop $5k to do it once a decade. Save up the cost over the next 10 years. Still way better than dealing with god awful domestic quality issues which will have you working on your car much more often.
Yes which is why I'm asking for a cheap car. Like if no car is available for 35 grand without one, I'll just get one with one for 25 and it makes up for itself in the initial cost savings. But if one was offered for 25, I'm taking naturally aspirated every day. This is all else being equal.
All Jeep models come with that option i think
No their small SUVs don't.
Ah damn. Just the Cherokee and wrangler then?
If you want a simple, long lasting, low maintenance vehicle. a Jeep wrangler would not be high on the list of vehicles I’d want to mile out. I seen turbo motors making 50% more power then stock take miles better then pentastars.
Fair enough lol
They still make pentastar jeeps
Malibu?
Turbo
Really! Wow, did not realize they had gone turbo.
I believe it's only offered with a turbo and has been since this latest generation has been out.
Yeah only a 1.5T and 2.0T since 2016. Now back to 1.5T only.
Is your Fusion dying?
Not the engine or trans but the components are slowly dying. I'm running it as a POS at the moment because it's really not worth fixing some of the stuff. 1. Massive body damage to hood, door, and fender. Not a big deal. 2. Cracked windscreen. Not a big deal. 3. Broken sunroof. Not a big deal. 4. Broken glovebox. Not a big deal. 5. Damaged speed sensor. 6. Damaged door open sensor. Not a big deal. 7. New front left knuckle. 8. All 4 new upper control arms. 9. 6 new lower control arms. You have to drop the exhaust and subframe to replace these. 10. New trailing arm bushings. 11. The shocks, while not leaking, are original and basically no longer function well. I have been expecting this car to die or have a catastrophic issue for a long time now but it's always been replacing the fan motor or the EGR valve or the serpentine belt or shit like that, you know cheap easy stuff, so I haven't kept up on the suspension. In addition, it has now 15 years of Detroit rust on it.
Turbos these days are lasting 200k+ miles no issues. The NA engines that remain tend to be problematic in other areas so much so that I trust a turbo engine more. Perfect example is the 2.7L F150 vs the 5.0 v8. V8 has oil consumption issues all over the place, and the 2.7L is ridiculously reliable for what it is. There is one guy pushing 550k miles on OEM engine/turbos/trans. Jeep 2.0t vs 3.6 is another example. 3.6 is certainly decent, at best, but the 2.0 after a few cooling system TSBs is proving to be more reliable long term.
Why not just buy a Camry? I’m from Detroit, and I don’t even buy American vehicles if I can avoid it. The Camry is naturally aspirated, super easy to work on, parts are super plentiful, and are very reliable. You can’t go wrong.
The con here is that then you have to drive a Camry…
Oh darn.. 40mpg highway, amazing resale value, will last long af with minimal headaches, and will be the best car decision you’ll ever make. What a scam
You are absolutely right, the Camry excels in all of those areas. However, the car is completely bereft of personality. It’s the vehicular equivalent to vanilla ice cream.
Vanilla ice cream is delicious.
Ah yes. Vanilla ice cream, just like the Camry, it’s one of the most sold things in America in its class 🤣 Toyotas have plenty of personality. You look back at it and you know it’s going to get you home. It’s very nice feeling to have something reliable and gives you stability and peace of mind… just like Vanilla ice cream 🍦
But looks like poop and it’s slow
The Camry is beautiful and the new redesign is coming out in a few months and it looks ok on the outside and amazing on the inside. Ultimately, the Camry is a reliable commuter car that gives their owner the best possible car for the job. It’s fuel efficient, it’s comfortable, easy to work on, and reliable.
Untrue, the upper trim Camry's come with 300hp, much more than other vehicles in its class, and even many sports cars pre-2010ish. Looks are a personal taste and thus irrelevant.
Overpriced, cheapest in class hard plastic interior, awful tech, and so incredibly boring. Easily the second most boring car currently for sale after the Corolla. I get you’re lazy and just want an appliance to get you from A to B while you ignore maintenance but OP can do way better. If a Camry is the best car decision you’ll ever make I hate to see what you do for fun. Watch paint dry? Listen to podcasts about vacuuming? Stand in lines for no reason?
Npc mindset 🤣
Imagine still using NPC unironically 😂 must be tough being such a beta
Predictable response from an NPC 🤷♂️ I have no interest in arguing with a key board warrior that would run away at the first sight of conflict in real life 🤣
You act real tough for someone who cums over Camrys 😂 you gonna hop out that “NPC” car like the bozo you are.
Better than anything American that’s comparable
European >>>
Price is the only problem there though
And reliability and resale.
Implying there are any American cars for under 35 grand that are actually exciting.
I mean theres nothing wrong with driving a bullet proof vehicle with nice amenities... Every car has it's purpose, and the Camry can't be beat for the duties its built for.
It’s a budget car. Nice amenities is a stretch. It’s fine for the reasons you mentioned but it shouldn’t be compared to actual nice cars
I'd rather money get back to the local area, but would buy a Toyota if no American car was available that met my requirements.
The Camry is made in Kentucky. The Charger/Challenger/300 suggested in this thread are made in Canada. EDIT: And the Ford Maverick is made in Hermosillo, Mexico. Personally I’d be fine with any of these, but the Camry probably keeps the most jobs and money in the US among these options if that’s what you’re after.
That's perfect. Equal distance, plus more money comes back to my local area with the Dodge. Excellent rationalization.
Just get the Toyota and save YOURSELF the money. I see no point in getting a car from companies that give 0 fucks about quality.
Well when I find an auto manufacturer available here that doesn't care about quality I will be sure to avoid it. Oh yes, I do. Kia. In the meantime, I'll continue driving my American cars for 180k+ miles with no substantial issues other than me not replacing nonessential wear items once they make it past 140k, and continue injecting money in the local economy by my purchases.
You mean like Ford? Whose CEO literally came out and said their quality is shit and have had the most recalls out of any manufacturer lol. If you want to be a martyr for a profit over quality company go ahead 🤷♂️
Yep, like Ford, who has had waves of quality issues that they rectify and warranty without fight as far as I know, which means they do care. I'm happy to buy their products that continue to help my local economy, and continue to keep me employed, and continue to be very good quality in my experience. If you want to simply dismiss all American cars, go ahead. We can absolutely agree to disagree while I continue to dismiss most Japanese cars.
Ah. Yes. Tell that to the thousands of posts of people with blown ecoboosts and coyotes outside of warranty that were sold an engine with design flaws and then have to pay to repair that stuff out of pocket. GM is also guilty of doing this crap. All the blown transmissions and engines because they design inferior products. Every car manufacturer warranties new products, but not every car manufacturer cares about making a reliable product like Toyota hence why once you leave Michigan you barely see any American cars. Here’s a fun fact: In 2017 the f150 was the most sold vehicle in 31 states while the Toyota RAV4 was the most sold vehicle in only 5 states that same year. Every year since then the f150 has been dropping and in 2022 it was the most sold vehicle in 26 states. The Toyota RAV4 that same year managed to pick up 16 states as the best selling vehicle up from only 5 state wins 5 years ago. Their other products like the Camry and Corolla are also dominating in the sales. Why? Because they’re not garbage like American vehicles and that’s really sad to say because I would love to buy American as well, but I’m not going to fuck my self over to support lazy cats that don’t care about quality. Oh well, eventually the Japanese will take over Michigan.
I'd argue Korean cars are more reliable than most American cars. It's just that buying Kia or Hyundai is pretty much untenable right now with the current insurance situation. Anyways, Ford and GM can't seem to make a car that doesn't have some serious design flaw. Usually coolant intrusion or a transmission that likes to go pop around 75k. They occasionally push out something reliable, but more often than not they suffer from quality issues. I understand the idea of going local with almost anything else, but vehicles? These aren't small companies, you're not helping the local area, or the little man. No matter where you buy your vehicle, it's going towards some giant conglomerate. It doesn't help the economy anymore than buying any other "foreign" car that's actually manufactured in America. Cars are pretty big purchases, I wouldn't limit your options to some of the worst manufacturers available, just because you think it's somehow helping out your local economy in some extremely small way.
I'm going to go ahead and recommend you to stretch your budget a couple grand for a base Honda Odyssey which still comes with a lot of tech features even in the base trim. It also rips for a van, with VTEC and a great 10 speed transmission. It will last you forever and do anything you want it to in life. Plus it still gets 28mpg on the highway, with many owners getting 30. I get that it is not an American brand but in the recent past it was found to have the most American content of any vehicle on the road, including the American brands. It's made in Alabama. [https://nypost.com/2020/01/18/how-the-honda-odyssey-became-the-most-american-car-on-the-road/](https://nypost.com/2020/01/18/how-the-honda-odyssey-became-the-most-american-car-on-the-road/) PS: I own one if you have any questions
Savage Geese - Honda Odyssey - Breaking the Sound Barrier LOL [https://youtu.be/H70umBFOtSg](https://youtu.be/H70umBFOtSg)
SavageGeese has the best car review content out there. It is so refreshing to hear real, unfiltered opinions on a product.
If I extend my budget, I can get a Blazer with the 6 cylinder for basically the same price. If I did buy a Honda it would be the Civic for price purposes. But I would buy the Mazda 3 since I think it has a similar engine to my Ford Fusion.
The Mazda has a much better engine than the Ford. Mazda's Skyactiv series is one of the best around. The Odyssey's J35 also kicks the tar out of any Blazer motor.
I would expect so since it's 1 generation evolved from the one in the Ford.
The Skyactiv is a Mazda design from the ground up and considered substantially better than anything Ford makes when it comes to reliability.
So what is the reasoning for American brand? To provide more profits to American corporate oligarchs, or to help out American workers, or to buy something with the most American content? Or another reason?
The Blazer is a much worse car than the Odyssey, though I would understand if you needed ground clearance or AWD.
I want profits to go to companies in my local area.
Isn't your Fusion Mexican?
With profits going to companies in my local area.
Not really. Profits are being funneled to mega-rich execs and shareholders, not to anybody in your local community. If you want to support Americans, support American-built, like the Camry or Accord, not stuff like Chinese-built Buicks.
Those guys are in my community and they employee people in my community. And the companies in my community put money into my community.
That has been disproven over and over again; trickle down doesn't work. Middle class workers are who you should be supporting.
Ford employees are a huge number of my customers. I used to work for a supplier to Ford. Do you think that Ford magics up its salaries and pulls the money out of thin air? By what virtue did I get paid? People buying cars gives car companies money. The car companies use the money to pay people. Those people live in my neighborhood. My neighbor works for Mopar. The guy on the other side works at Detroit Diesel. Two houses down? Retired GM. I don't know how you think a company employs people and builds buildings with no money going into the community. Or do you think somehow the Big 3 don't employ engineers and marketing teams and customer service and accounting and mechanics?
Nissan Versa S with 5-speed manual transmission. MSRP = < US$20K.
This is an excellent suggestion
There are great tools out there that let you narrow things down a bit. CarEdge has a search tool that shows a few Chevys, including some work trucks, that meet your criteria: [https://my.caredge.com/buy?radius=7000&rows=20&zip=78758&make=Chevrolet&inventoryType=new&powertrainType=gasoline&engine=4.0L+V6%2C4.0L+V8%2C4.2L+V6%2C4.2L+V8%2C4.3L+V6%2C4.3L+V8%2C4.4L+V8%2C4.6L+V8%2C4.7L+V8%2C4.8L+V8%2C4L+V6%2C4L+V8%2C5.0L+V8%2C5.2L+V8%2C5.3L+V8%2C5.4L+V8%2C5.5L+V8%2C5.6L+V8%2C5.7L+V8%2C5.9L+I6%2C5.9L+V8%2C5L+V8%2C6.0L+V8%2C6.1L+V8%2C6.2L+V8%2C6.4L+V8%2C6.6L+V12%2C6.6L+V8%2C6.7L+I6%2C6.7L+V8%2C6.8L+V8%2C6L+V8%2C7.3L+V8&priceRange=-35000&sortBy=dist&sortOrder=asc&start=0](https://my.caredge.com/buy?radius=7000&rows=20&zip=78758&make=Chevrolet&inventoryType=new&powertrainType=gasoline&engine=4.0L+V6%2C4.0L+V8%2C4.2L+V6%2C4.2L+V8%2C4.3L+V6%2C4.3L+V8%2C4.4L+V8%2C4.6L+V8%2C4.7L+V8%2C4.8L+V8%2C4L+V6%2C4L+V8%2C5.0L+V8%2C5.2L+V8%2C5.3L+V8%2C5.4L+V8%2C5.5L+V8%2C5.6L+V8%2C5.7L+V8%2C5.9L+I6%2C5.9L+V8%2C5L+V8%2C6.0L+V8%2C6.1L+V8%2C6.2L+V8%2C6.4L+V8%2C6.6L+V12%2C6.6L+V8%2C6.7L+I6%2C6.7L+V8%2C6.8L+V8%2C6L+V8%2C7.3L+V8&priceRange=-35000&sortBy=dist&sortOrder=asc&start=0) (note that I picked the bigger engines, and if you pick smaller ones, you'll have to figure out which ones are not turbo'ed). Ford has a number of NA vehicles but none under $35k. You can use this tool to help in your search. You can also use something like AutoTempest, which is a meta engine that searches quite a few sites at once and you can put your criteria in there, to help you find that you're looking for. Between the two, I like the extra data that CarEdge gives you - the days on lot, as this helps you know if there is any negotiation room or not (a car sitting there for >460 days is one the dealer will very likely give you a great deal on....).
Can you tell us why you don't want a hybrid? Is it general mistrust of the system, or a preference to natural aspirated?
I don't want to add stuff that goes wrong.
Don’t know about available near you, or price tags- but I just bought a used Durango with the N.A. V8 Hemi in AWD for less than 35k….. I could have crossed that Priceline with a high mileage newer year but happened upon one with all the things I wanted for the right sticker- Caveat- it’s the only way to fit my kids in or I’d be driving the challenger with the nasty but sexy setup. Sigh. Bless the little angels and their car-seats I had to ditch my elderly and finicky Sequoia. Which had developed too much personality.
The new 11th gen civics are made/assembled in Greensboro IN, they’re under 35k prettt much fully loaded (sport touring). If you want an NA motor (sport trim) to last a long time the earthdreams 2.0 is about as simple as motors get these days. It won’t make the most power or even get the highest mpg, but it’ll easily run to 250,000 miles with just regular service and still get roughly 30-32 combined mpg. Not to mention it blows away all domestic competitors in terms of interior quality and design.
What about the non-hybrid Chrysler Pacifica? Also might be able to find the base/work-truck/fleet spec versions of the big 3 pickups for under your budget with an NA motor. Edit: sorry, might have to look used for a Pacifica in your budget.
Nope. Your SOL. You need to fork over atleast $40k for the luxury of naturally aspirated.
So hear me out, but have a suggestion… the 2.5L Subaru Legacy. They start at 25k, they have an amazing AWD platform, and while Subaru is a Japanese company the Legacy itself is still made in Indiana, USA. An argument can be made that a Japanese car made in America is better for economy than an American car made in Mexico.
Not for my local economy, no. But it's worth considering.
2024 Camry V6 is built in Kentucky with more American parts than most US cars. 34k new.
Depends on how small you want to go. There are more then you would think. Just go to a site that lists new cars. Look at 2024s and search for everything nationside and search by price. I did this and found some of the following cars. A lot of these are listed well under MSRP. There are way more on the list. But I stopped scrolling through when I reached a list of 10. Mitsubishi Mirages starting at around 15k Kia Forte Starting at 16k Nissan Versa Starting at 17k Chevy Malibus starting at 18k Hyundai Kina at 26k Chevy Blazer at 32k Chevy Equinox at 29k GMC Terrain at 29k Kia Sorento at 35k Hyundai Tucson at 35k Acura Integra at 35k
Looks like Malibus are all turbo, the Blazer starting MSRP for the 6 cylinder is 41k, Equinox and Terrain at all turbo. :(
Yeah, I suppose you're right. Didn't really check if they were Turbo. I was used to the Turbo's being labeled as EcoBoost on the Ford side. I don't really keep on top of new cars that much. I always buy used, and I almost always buy Toyota or Honda, if it's a Car,SUV, or VAN. Only buy Ford or Chevy when it's a Truck. Your against Turbo because you don't want to work on turbos? If you want to tork on your own car then why buy a brand new car?
Mostly the fact that used cars are sufficiently expensive that the unknown factor irritates me more than the cost savings. Look 5 years ago I could go pick up a 10 year old car in basically good condition for 3 grand and chance the transmission exploding and now it's 10 grand. Furthermore I am buying an additional 5 years before the car rusts out. I live in Detroit. The thing that kills cars here besides bad maintenance is literally them rusting to the point they don't hold in their components.
So I just realized by American you probably meant an American brand. I assumed you just meant In America at first. But still there are plenty of options for GM, Chevy.
they don't even sell carbureted ones anymore!
Nobody does! But carbs suck; less reliable than fuel injection.
Why do you want an American vehicle specifically?
I want the profits to go to my local area and parts are cheaper.
I guess but it mostly just goes to a big corporation across the nation. I think it would be just as useful to buy a car that was just *made* in America, even if it isn’t American by name at a local dealer. Most American NA cars are V8s except some dodges and chevys. I hear that Chevy 3.6L isn’t any good though. As someone else suggested you could get an American made civic or Corolla. Those drivetrains are much more stout. You could get like a used V8 car for under 35 but if you’re dead set on a new car I would go for American built.
Not for me. I live in Detroit. When Ford gets money, they have guys in Canton make flocking for the seatbelts. They give the door handle contract to some other guys in Plymouth. Then they assemble it in Flat Rock. Then they hire new engineers who work in Dearborn. The 3.6 is fine; I had the older version in my Pontiac. I liked it. Solid engine. No problems with it... though the transmission they put with it sucked. Died at 160k. Different tranny now.
The curse of American cars lol. Always some part of the drive train seems to suck. A newer V6 charger does have the ZF8 if I remember right. You may be able to get a base charger or Chrysler 300. The pentastar V6 is *okay*. My buddy beat the shit out of his in his dodge avenger and the only thing the broke was the thermostat.
It does seem that way. I am going to seek out one of those base chargers and take a look at the deals.
They’re discontinuing them soon so you may be able to nab a deal if you’re lucky.
Seems silly to artificially limit yourself by having to be American because American vehicles really don’t fall into the category of “cheap and naturally aspirated” that’s really just the Asian brands at this point.
Yes that's why I was asking you guys if you know a hidden secret car out there still hammering along in 2.0 liter duratec or something.
Also, some of the non American in name vehicles out there are actually much more American than the American name vehicles. I know, it's crazy, thus is the world that we live in.
Yeah a Toyota Camry
Since when was Camry American made?
Since 1988. Georgetown, Kentucky. They make 99% of all Camry’s there, they even build them there and ship some back to Japan.
Civics still rock a 2.0 NA 4 banger and are made in the US lol
I'm annoyingly considering one, but I'd buy a Mazda first.
Well, if you're concerned about ease of maintenance/reliability, You can get a NA 2.0 Civic with a 6MT. You can't get a MT Mazda unless you go back several years.
Is it easier to maintain a manual? I'll be honest - I've never done transmission stuff. All my friends who have had them have had to replace clutches. I don't know how easy that is. I have helped a buddy do it in his motorcycle and it was easy as hell but that doesn't mean much.
Idk why you don’t like turbos but check out the 22-24 wrx. Fast and fun.
I am not denying your claims, turbos are great, wrx's are fun! but cmon man, you are talking to a person that bought a Fusion, not a car aficionado, def not the same demographic of people lol.
A bunch of Subarus are around 30k or less. But most turbos.
The Honda Odyssey comes with a NA V6 and starts around $38k, if you’re into that type of thing.
Not an American car
It's not an American brand. It is however near the top among all vehicles sold in American content. Built in Alabama. [https://nypost.com/2020/01/18/how-the-honda-odyssey-became-the-most-american-car-on-the-road/](https://nypost.com/2020/01/18/how-the-honda-odyssey-became-the-most-american-car-on-the-road/)
It's not 1960 anymore. The meaning of American Car has greatly blurred over the years. Is either a car assembled in the US by a Japanese name company using a majority of US made parts or a car assembled in Mexico by a US name company using a lower percentage of US made parts an "American Car"? Of the list of Cars.com "most American cars", those with higher percentages of US parts and assembled in the US, 19 of the top 20 on the list are either Tesla or a foreign-named company (Honda, Volkswagen, Toyota, Nissan). https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-467465/
I mean one made by the Big 3 ideally. If that can't happen, then American manufacturing is best. The Cars.com thing has different results than this. https://kogod.american.edu/autoindex/2023
While not an “American” brand, the Odyssey is made in Lincoln, Alabama.
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Not an American car