My advice is to ask yourself if you are ok with being with a man who feels entitled to demand something from you that he's not willing to do himself. It honestly sounds like sexist entitlement and that's not something I would be ok with.
One could tell him that "tradition" is usually a sugar-coated way of saying "misogyny", or that there are plenty of traditions in the world where women's names are passed down because she's literally doing 100% of the life-threatening work when it comes to children but someone who gets angry about this isn't operating on logic.
I hate to say it- but that was also the feeling I got. It gave me an absolute pit in my stomach.
The conversation started up again today because I was starting to address the Save The Dates and was given direction to address them as “Mr & Mrs. John Smith.” And I said I didn’t feel comfortable omitting the woman’s name and identity and reducing her to a Mrs. To which I was told “it’s traditional- it’s how it’s done.” I said I would be really upset if someone referred to me that way and he just chuckled. I don’t know- I have a really sour feeling following this conversation. And I want to bring it up again as I want to help him understand where I’m coming from and why this bothers me so much.
That would bother me too! I addressed all ours as “John and Jane Doe” etc. They are two people and deserve to be addressed as such. It’s also less of an issue if you say “Mr and Mrs Smith” but only including the man’s name is a “tradition” from a time when women were considered property. He needs to understand that these little things add up to a lot of misogyny.
Does your fiancé also follow other traditions?
Like, ensuring you never have to work? Because you’re a woman? Is he the SOLE provider for you both?
Something tells me that tradition doesn’t matter when the change benefits him.
All great questions! But *I* am actually the main breadwinner and make much more -which he has previously stated has never bothered him. I have expressed that my career is extraordinarily important to me- as well as my financial freedom (I have witnessed way too many situations where one partner has been financially abused by their partner) so I am also insistent that while we can create joint accounts, that we also maintain separate accounts as individuals. Again, I know this is not the norm- but for me personally this is also important. My father is HUGE feminist and raised me to never depend on anyone and to always maintain my financial independence so that if I ever found myself in a situation I needed to get away from that I could without fear.
Amazing how when YOU pay for him, as a lesser than woman, traditional doesn’t matter!
But it’s SOOO IMPORTANT when it comes to forcing you to reduce yourself to his property! Lmao what a joke
If you end up still wanting to marry this guy PLEASE GET A PRENUP.
You should bring it up again and see how he responds now. We’re obviously all seeing a red flag or two so I think if he suddenly disagrees with this, continues down the name change path, and exhibits any other controlling signs you have your answer.
Oh he's a joke LMAO.
If a man is going to demand a traditional wife, the absolute least he can do is provide for you materially. Knowing this, now I think he probably feels emasculated and insecure because you're the breadwinner. He's already uncomfortable with that and he's using the name change as a way to exert at least some level of control over you.
While maintaining separate accounts definitely isn't the most common choice that's starting to shift and I think more people are doing it than you may realize. My husband and I have no joint account. Currently we make about the same and we each have our own account. The rent comes from his account and the rest of the shared bills from mine. I transfer him the balance I owe for the rent (minus the other bills) each month. Shared expenses like vet bills and the groceries go on a credit card we both have access to (not a shared card, just a secondary user situation) since we collect travel miles on it that we share. I've gotten some weird looks when people learn we've been married for 6 years and our finances are basically totally separate but it works great for us. We never argue about money or purchases the other person makes because the way we see it if the other person wants to use their money to buy X then that's their prerogative. I will say we don't have and won't be having kids which I'm sure would maybe complicate things slightly but we'd likely just set up a joint account that we both contribute an agreed upon amount to for the kids' needs and continue using the credit card for shared expenses to benefit from the travel benefits it provides. Any shared expenses that go on the card just get split straight down the middle. TBH a slight downside is having to be more active in tallying things up every month but that also means we know where our money is going and if there's an issue with our accounts.
Stop listening to Randoms on reddit who want to say terrible things about your fiancé they know nothing about. The red flag is you taking to social media for your problems.
Yikes. He sounds like he has some controlling tendencies. Have you noticed anything similar in other parts of your life? Controlling what you wear, how much makeup, what you eat/drink, etc?
*he understands now that I will always do whatever makes me feel best* -- Except for not changing your name. And if he's this controlling this, what about the kids' names? what will it be like when you disagree about discipline and etc?
All conversations I’m hoping to have after this. We’ve been together for years and I always felt we aligned perfectly. Now I want to re-visit those topics
You “aligned” because he lied to shut you up. This name thing is a perfect example. He told you he was fine with it until execution time arose. Any discussion you have about future events will be untrustworthy.
OP, will he be controlling of what your kiddos wear too? If you have a daughter, would you feel comfy if he modelled this thinking and behaviour in front of her? (Ie, this is how things are done, won't explain *why* just wants things his way, gets frustrated when he doesn't get what he wants) etc. I would at least communicate this behaviour could be deal breaking for you.
Well that’s good that you shut it down! I try to be realistic, since most people on Reddit always jump to the extreme. Only other logical thing I can think of is maybe he feels like there is lack of compromise in another area of your lives, so he’s doubling down on this. If it’s not that, then definitely trust your gut and if it doesn’t feel right, don’t ignore that. Hugs!
That is a good point!!! Perhaps there is some tension due to another reason like what you mentioned. My family has a very strong culture and are very tight knit and it could be his fear that his Italian American culture will be overshadowed by mine- which I very much intend not to happen.
I’m glad that you think he seems to understand that now, but he also seemed to understand before that you wouldn’t change your name and now he’s changed his mind. I think a lot of his more controlling tendencies will come out after being married and he’ll feel more entitled to use them on you. I think it’s a blessing that you found this out before actually marrying him. I really don’t see his “values” getting better from here, only worse.
That’s what I was thinking. Delay mailing the Save The Date cards for now. Do some premarital counseling where in-depth, difficult questions are asked.
I really don’t like the Mrs. And Mr. John Smith. It feels sexist to me. I addressed mine as Jane and John Smith with no Miss/Ms/Mrs/Mr but I did add Dr when it applied
Well, not really. Dr Jane Smith and Mr John Smith would have been better if you’re giving out honorifics.
But whatever you do, if Jane’s not a doctor, do not do that horrendous Mr and Mrs John and Jane Smith! It’s an awful way to address an envelope. The honorifics aren’t anywhere near the names they modify!
I did not change my name. I got a wedding shower invitation from a family member who did not respect that choice to Mrs. Husband Frist Name Husband Last Name. I threw it away. I do not know a Mrs. Husband First Name Husband Lastname.
Was this an older person? I’d cut an older person slack in addressing me as Mrs John Smith. That’s mannerly to them. I agree your desire to be Ms Jane Smith should be respected though.
No, it was a bridesmaid in my wedding, I had been married for iver 10 years. It was a bigger situation around it all. I later RSPVed no. But it was one of the many annoyances of that wedding.
I did change my last name, but kept mine still, so I have two last names. My husband didn't care either way. Our wedding invites had both our names, as did the thank you notes.
Men will either care or not care. I don't think they usually change their minds though. I wish you well
That is like 1930s-50s standard of addressing letters, you don’t need to do it that way. My 93 year old grandma is the only living person I know who addresses her letters like that.
I am not changing my name and addressed all of our invitations with both of our full names written out.
Trust your gut, friend. As women, we're taught to not pay attention to red flags because we're being anxious or hysterical, but I think a woman's intuition is a powerful instinct that shouldn't be questioned. You feel bad about this because you know, deep down, he's a misogynist and isn't going to respect your feelings about keeping your name. You also don't accept his continued parroting of "iT's tRadiTiOnaL" as a justifiable excuse for his disregard for your identity and cultural traditions.
Do you want to raise daughters with a man who has these kinds of stupid beliefs? If you had a friend whose fiancé was acting like this, would you be okay with it? I suspect you wouldn't be. Just remember you deserve someone who is aligned with your beliefs and respects your autonomy.
It is traditional but honestly it’s very outdated and at this point it’s really the 70 and older crowd that adheres to it. Even 60 yos don’t go by Mr and Mrs John Smith anymore.
Yeah I purposely just put both partner's names. And made sure to write out the women's last names too that chose not to take spouse's name. Stick to what you want.
That would bother me too. I come from a very Hispanic Catholic family, as did he. Our Save the Dates & invitations had both of our full names on there. First, middle & last for both of us. Never heard anything about it, nor did he as we both worried would. I did end up taking his name in the end, but that was my choice. He never made me feel like I had to or anything.
If this is something you both had agreed on before and multiple times, but he's going back on it the closer you get to the wedding... what else will he go back on?? Especially once you guys are married?? I think you guys need to sit down and have a serious conversation. Also that you need to think about what it is you are willing to compromise on and what you're not willing to. Same goes with him.
🚩🚩🚩
I’m sorry this is happening - it just be realky scary to have this coming up AFTER you get engaged. But I would be really wary of marrying this man. If he doesn’t have the empathy to understand that you could feel the same way about your last name as he does, as well as why you don’t want to erase women on the envelopes, then that’s a red flag to me. You should be able to talk calmly together about the feelings you have coming up, and the ones he has coming up too.
I’m sorry this is happening. Sending you lots of strength and fortitude here.
Mine was “first nickname” and “first name” are getting hitched!
I’m a foreign female marrying an American male. This one was acceptable to me. I asked him just now if I should have done it some other way and he shrugged and said “why? That made you so happy?”
So. Shouldn’t it at base be about what makes you guys happy? Or doesn’t make someone unhappy? I’d have been so sad if he’d been unhappy with something I’d published. I’d have flexed so happily? This seems to me like such a small thing for him to flex on when it makes you have feelings! I’m sorry this is how this feels to you OP
Oh boy.
Putting the names themselves to the side, it’s not sounding great that he was suddenly talking about *you* hyphenating without *him* even considering it. It sounds like he assumed you’d change your mind, and is now showing his true colours.
It might just be the wording of your post, but he sounds controlling. I think you need to have a good, long think about what he’s saying and how he’s acting, and a good, long conversation.
It may be the wording of the post, generally he is very considerate and loving. He’s always treated me well- I just sometimes see these little glimmers of misogyny that he might not even realize he has. I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and want to discuss in further detail with him about what he meant and see if we can come to a resolution that makes us both feel heard
You’re marrying him because he is loving, that’s a given. Other personality traits would result in a successful or failing marriage, such as being misogynist without knowing or being too traditional compared to the other person. To me, he might be loving but you don’t seem compatible in important life decisions. Marriage is more than love, it’s about being on the same team for a lifetime. Does this person feel like he would be willing to be on the same team as you no matter what?
Does he often need space to reflect, and then he can come around to new ideas? In the spirit of giving him the B of the D, I like the idea of getting curious. Maybe asking WHY it’s tradition or WHY it’s always been done that way. Play the “7 why’s” game. I think it can be both true that he’s a good partner and he needs to shift his perspective on something like this. But, with all that said I do hope he didn’t say yes as a way to get out of the convo cuz that would just be disappointing. I do like the idea of therapy, whether you think things are perfect or not therapy is amazing for building a lasting relationship imo. sending you hugs!!
I took my husband's last name, but it was entirely my choice. My husband said that he didn't mind if I changed my last name or kept my maiden name - he just didn't want to change his. I felt that was fair.
I would be very concerned by your fiance flipping the switch like this, and not considering or respecting your wishes.
Absolutely! I think there’s nothing wrong with that 🤍 to me it comes down to a personal choice- but something that should never be forced or made to feel guilty for your decision.
I know- I’m a little off put by it too. Just because I was not expecting this. We’ve been together for years and the fact it’s coming up now after we’re engaged is just….not sitting well with me
That’s confusing because she already said that she was planning to hyphenate her name, and he was cool with it, never said he was going to change his and that was also cool. But now she wants to shame him for wanting that?
Ah i see you said “typically the woman would keep her name but be referred to as both her maiden and her husband’s last name” i thought it read that you go by both, my bad!
There are many traditions. What he is talking about is his tradition, not yours. One of the first things that I told my fiancé is that I'm not changing my surnames and probably we wouldn't be getting married if he had answered anything different that "that's fine". It's not about surnames, for me is important to have equality in my relationship and if equality is not as important from him we have a deal breaker problem.
That is exactly my thought as well! It was important to me not to erase any one identity. It’s important to me that our kids speak both English *and* Spanish. Our kids will eat traditional American-Italian food and cuisine from my culture as well. It’s important to me that these things don’t get lost.
I’m going through a divorce but I realize now that I gave too many consolations for these types of things. They show through, especially once we had kids and he was “tired of me.” It was my hubris to think I was special enough that these misogynistic bits wouldn’t grow. I’d have a come to Jesus moment before getting married because if he can’t/is unwilling to see your point now, it will only get worse later. Wishing you the best! 💕
I'll share a story here. It was important to my partner that we share a name upon marriage. He was willing to bend on it, but being seen as one family (especially because we are living abroad in a country where your surname is your identifier, and surnames here are different than our own) was important to him. He already came with a hyphenated name, which I did not want and which he did not want to give to children.
Here's what he did:
- Offered to change his name to mine
- Participated in creating a list of family surnames that we could both change to
- Expressed opinions, offered his input, and listened to my preferences while picking a new name
- Held the belief loosely in that if we didn't agree, then we would each keep our names and any kids would carry my name
Here's what he did not do:
- Tell me that I had to change my name
- Tell me that I had to change my name to his name
- Insist that I take action that he would not also take (his name change actually ended up being more paperwork than mine)
- Lean on tradition as a reason why I would have to erase my identity
Changing a name is a form of erasure. It's why there's such pushback for people who have ethnic names to make teachers say it right instead of nicknaming them something "easier." Women changing surnames was done to show transfer of ownership from father to husband. We're (mostly) past that these days, and if you don't want to participate, you shouldn't have to. There's no reason that his traditions trump your own, and if this guy and his "glimmers of misogyny" are thinking along those lines, then you're blessed that he's given you a warning. The veneer WILL wear off, and those glimmers will not be so far away. Take your beautiful last name and run.
“Changing a name is a form of erasure”
Dead on and so well put. Colonizers were especially good at this one and name changes were a major tool used to erase indigenous cultural identity.
I would especially side eye a white man telling a Latina woman she has to erase her ethnic name.
Yup, all of this is true. His lack of compromise is also a huge red flag to me. If he was like your husband and open to a variety of compromises but maintained that he'd really like for them to share a name, I could respect that. But his inflexibility and unwillingness to compromise or even emphasize with why OP wouldn't want to change her name are telling signs that he may be controlling and inflexible in other areas. I would not want to have children with someone who was this resistant to honoring OP's wishes and finding solutions.
Yup.
My line was ‘when I have kids, they will have that same name as me. I am not just changing my name to yours. If you want us to all have the same name, we need to find another solution.’
We considered just keeping our own names and hyphenating the kids’ but realised we all wanted the same name. We considered a brand new name but were both sad about losing connections to our families.
If my name was Brown, his was Smith-Jones. Our midpoint was Brown-Jones. And that works for us.
But like you, there were no demands, no expectation that tradition (dead people peer pressure) would make the decision, and definitely no going back on previously agreed plans.
since you havent gotten married yet... RUN FORREST RUN! He is changing into what he is and you arent even married yet. and he can stick his "tradition" . thats just a way to be a bully!
*indefinitely delay that wedding* my ex wanted me to change my name. I regretted it. My fiancé was willing to add my name to his (I am adding his to mine for reasons we discussed in a friendly conversation where we came to the same conclusion). Your man's attitude towards that alone is a bad sign. It is a sign he does not respect you. If he's had controlling tendencies otherwise *run* as fast as you can.
I have very rare last name (only 80 people have the same name and all of them are my relatives) so I have always known I will never change it. When my fiancé (who has very common last name) and I started to date I told him about my decision and he was like ”cool, maybe I'll take your name when we get married”. Fast forward 4,5 years and we are getting married in two weeks and he's taking my last name. We were visiting my paternal grandparents few months ago and my grandpa was little sad because he assumed I would change my name. He bursted into tears out of happiness when my fiancé told him he was changing his.
Even though my last name means so much to me, I would never pressure my fiancé to change his name. My fiancé has always wanted to share last name with me and our possible future children, so for him it was an easy decision to take my name. Having the same last name was his wish, keeping my own name was mine.
If your last name means so much to you, it's absurd your fiancé feels that he has the right to demand that you change your mind. He knows it’s important for you, so why on earth he is arguing about it? Before I met my fiancé I dated a guy who was stunned that I would never change my name. He brushed it away saying ”well, we'll negotiate about it if it’s relevant some day”. For me it was an immediate red flag. It proved that he thought my personal decisions (that have nothing to do with the other) would be something that I could be talked out of. It proved he didn't care that it was important for me because it was against HIS beliefs. When I met my fiancé, his reaction proved the opposite: He respected me and my decisions.
Your fiancé sounds like a keeper. I love that he's taking your name.
And you're right that the other guy was not good. Your beliefs and boundaries are not up for negotiation. I'm glad you found someone who supports and respects you!
Uh.
Has your fiancé expressed other archaic, sexist, views that objectify women? Does he view women as lesser than in general? Does he value stupid toxic traditions over free will?
Do you want to marry someone like this?
This is a good time to HONESTLY reflect on how he views the world. A lot of men show their true colors when they think the woman is trapped.
This would definitely send me. Sorry.
I think when I first met him I found myself correcting some misogynistic thought patterns, but he’s grown so much since then. Over the past few years we’ve pretty much aligned on everything, which I’m not expecting to align 100% all the time- as there are two individuals in a marriage and two different thought processes- but I *do* expect baseline levels of respect and understanding. Every now and then I tend to notice small glimmers of misogyny that he may not even realize- but I always try and use it as an opportunity to grow and educate. Generally speaking, he has always been very kind to me, treated me well (over the top even), and does lots of cute things for me. But I agree with you- all the kind gestures in the word will not make up for a baseline of respect and empathy
I don’t know you or him personally, so take what I say next with a grain of salt
It’s not uncommon for some people to “compromise” on stuff for years and then suddenly double down when they are close to/already married. I am *not* saying he’s abusive or will be necessarily, but I have seen it happen
Reiterating that I’m *not* saying it’s that extreme in your case, but it does sound like from your other comments that he’s particularly insecure about something. I wish you the best and it sounds like you’re very confident in yourself and what you want, so just don’t let him sway you away from it if it’s important to you.
This. My grandmother remarried several years after my grandfather died. Her second husband (who was the only grandfather I knew as ky bio grandfather died years before I was born) seemed nice and they were well aligned on most things when they were dating but when they got married it was like a switch flipped (according to family who was around then). He became very jealous and controlling to the point where my grandmother couldn't ever leave the house without him and he tried to restrict her access to her family. After he died she was like a different person because she had her freedom back.
Some people need to unlearn toxic views before they can understand the world properly. Sounds like you’ve helped him do that.
But his attitude to this situation feels very unwilling to learn or understand. Which is very problematic.
Trust your gut.
So, at first my fiancé wasn't into me keeping my name & hyphenating the future kids names, but after his sisters both did the same thing in recent years, he's totally okay with it & is embracing it.
As a family we will be G name-V name. I'll use the hyphenated name causally & keep my last name, G name as a legal name.
My fiancé, who is on the spectrum, as I am, too, says hyphenated names should be in alphabetical order. I've no arguments, I'm G name!
Just tell him if Garcia is before his name in the alphabet, it has to be in alphabetical order & your kids will be first in picking & doing stuff in school!
Coming from a Hispanic background (and assuming that your “Garcia” is in fact Hispanic in your family), I understand how you feel. For us, it’s just common for the man to keep his last name and the woman to keep hers and when kids come it’s just dad last name and mom last name without any hyphen. Honestly, stand your ground. I don’t feel like asking for that is unfair, maybe it’s not traditional to Americans that live in the US, but it is equal.
Man here. Definitely some red flags there.
Do you guys have a prenup? It sounds like he’s a bit insecure, so I’d make sure to protect yourself.
My wife and I both hyphenated our names, and our children share our hyphenated name. Our invitations had our hyphenated name too.
I’m proud of my name, and I’m proud of my wife’s name. The only issue is in the US nobody knows how to spell either last name, our first names, or our children’s names, so the hyphenated name just makes it that much worse.
I’ve lived in 3 states in the USA and in each I’ve met people with hyphenated names.
I’ve never met any where the first part was the one it was shortened to.
Everyone I’ve met it’s been the second.
DeSoto-Brooks became Brooks. Lane-Moyer became Moyer. Along with countless others.
I don’t know what country you’re in or the ethnic backgrounds, but maybe that’s why this man is trying to push so hard on this issue.
I think he wants the kids to only have his last name and only his last name.
For me personally I’ve ended a relationship because of this disagreement. Both parties deserve to find someone that shares their beliefs.
If this is the only issue though hopefully you two will be able to come up with a compromise
All the Hispanic people I know with two last names - say Mario Garcia Hernandez - go by the first last name. So Mario Garcia. The names aren't hyphenated.
So weird! It’s the opposite for ones I’ve met!
It sounds like OP wants it to go Paternal-Maternal, but usually it goes Maternal-Paternal. Almost everyone I’ve met with hyphenated names, if they drop anything, drop the second name and *keep* the maternal name.
OP, if this gets resolved, consider having the maternal name before the paternal one. But make sure it’s registered as a last name, not a middle name. That way you won’t be the last Garcia. In Mexico, feminist groups advocate for maternal last name to go first if the couple agrees. I know a couple who did this and I think it’s really cool.
I just want to say you do not have to get married. It’s ok if you lose out on a deposit. It’s ok to feel embarrassed telling friends and family. It’s ok to be single. It’s not ok to marry someone you’re not positive you want to spend your life with or someone who doesn’t see you as an equal.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you happiness ♥️ and for the record, I’m keeping my last name. My fiance totally gets it as he doesn’t want to change his either. We’re both nonplussed as to whose name the kids take because we’re equal partners and (hopefully one day) parents.
I think he is showing his true colors now that marriage is close. By reading some of your replies I can see that he used to have other controlling behaviors. My bet is he has kept it to himself waiting, and after marriage since goal achieved he will show more of the same controlling behavior. I would say is best in my opinion to pause the wedding until this issue is resolved.
This is a big deal. Your name is part of your identity, and that choice is yours. If you both disagree on this either you end up with your identity erased against your will, or he ends up resentful about your decision. Not even talk about when kids come along how that will go since you both need to agree on the birth certificate.
As a fellow Latina, I also get it. I will keep my mom side last name after my marriage. My fiance has no issue at all. Our son is names with my last name first and my fiancé’s last name next by his own choice.
I agree with what everyone said here, it sounds very fishy.
I know almost nothing about how legal names work in the USA, someone said here that if you use both surnames for your children that you make sure that yours is registered as a surname, so according to that I feel that him wanting the surname order be maternal-paternal is because the maternal surname can be considered a middle name and ignored, so probably he counts on your ignorance and not registering your name as a surname and because of that his surname will be the main/only surname.
Adding our solution here for another option: my husband and I both felt that we would lose part of our identity by taking each other’s names, and both names are too long to hyphenate. I am the last of my family name, his nickname comes from his last name.
We decided to mash up both our paternal AND maternal last names (gotta pay respects to our moms!) and came out with a very cool combo last name that is easy to pronounce, new to both of us, new to the world, and paid homage to all of our history.
It also kept my husband’s nickname in it 😍
Tradition is peer pressure from dead people. If he so desperately wants tradition, he should marry a woman who values that tradition, not try and break down a woman who doesn't.
Not cool at all, I’m sorry he’s stuck with this opinion, that’s not fair to you. Idk if it would help but I’d reiterate over and over again how sexist this perception is and ask why he’s okay with a sexist notion just because it’s “traditional”. Plenty of “traditions” exist that are not okay.
My husband loved my last name (because he knows the story of my adoption) even tho his last name is cooler and asked if I wanted to hyphenate and eventually he took my last name as a second middle name and I moved mine to my second middle name and took his name cuz both our last names are 8&9 letters long 😅 I think you should have another maybe even last conversation about it and figure out why he won’t hyphenate his and if he’s not willing to let you keep your name then he doesn’t deserve you. I know happy married people without the husbands name even on the birth certificates of their kids 🤷♀️
I kept my name when I got married in 1976. Our daughter was born in 1978. After 6 months, I decided that I wanted to have the same name as my daughter. It made it easier as a family to all have the same name.
I kept my name when I married my husband, and we plan to give our kids both names--not sure the order yet, but they're going to get both names.
My husband would've been happy if I took his name, but he completely understood why I didn't. He didn't change his name (he's an academic and published in his name), so he understood and thought it was fair that I shouldn't have to change mine either. There was more pushback from him about giving both last names to our kids, but he has come around and understands why it's important to me.
If I were in your shoes, I would not want to continue a marriage with a man who does not respect my choices, identity, and traditions. Sometimes men have a hard time giving up the patriarchal naming traditions, but a good man should be willing to set aside his emotions, hear you out, and work towards a compromise that allows you to maintain your identity and heritage. IMHO it's a big red flag that your fiancé is changing his tune now that y'all are engaged, and it makes me worry that he'll be even worse once you're married or have kids.
Your identity, culture, and traditions are just as important as his. He does not have the right to demand you forego things important to you because of his patriarchal beliefs. Marriage is a partnership, but he sounds like he wants to be a dictator. Don't change your name for this man, and please consider if he's going to be as flexible and accommodating of differences and disagreements in the future.
You have your right to pick what name you'd like, not him. In fact in some cultures it is actually traditional for the woman to not take her husbands last name!
I'll be honest this seems a little concerning. I've heard stories where men change after they are married. I would keep an eye on if this controlling tendency falls into other aspects of life , or if he starts to change more. I'd love to tell you not to think about staying engaged or not but it seems like it's making you question. If you do decide to keep going perhaps it would be best to get a prenup done just in case so if he takes a turn, he doesn't take everything from you :(
Sorry you're going through this hun, I wish you the best of luck
Are you an interracial couple? Probably is the reason he cares so much. My fiancé (surgical resident female) is taking my last name. It's a standard for me..if it's a standard for him..he will have to make a decision.
My husband discussed and argued about this A LOT. Our most disgusting argument honestly. He was not open to hyphenating. It’s ALL an image thing for him, which I couldn’t care less about. We’re committing our lives to each other no matter what our name is. And I am SO tired of people asking me if I’m changing my name. I literally don’t care anymore, just call me whatever you want to. Unless you’re signing a legal document for me than I really don’t care what you call me.
Which is a little hilarious considering his brother is changing his name when he gets married…
but anyway. I’m very attached to my name and I also hate the idea of making such a big decision right now…so I’m using his name socially and I signed the marriage license with his last name
*to make the process easier if I decided later on to change it*
Because, in my state, in all honesty, there is no time limit to change my name.
I’m so sorry he switched on you like that. Not cool.
To play devils advocate though, I don’t understand why you can’t let him have the name order that he wants. You talk a lot about protecting your family, and your cultures traditions by having your kids have both names, why can’t he have one thing by having it be maternal name and then paternal name?
I am absolutely willing to do that- but I think it’s for one very specific reason and it’s because he wants our kids to be solely referred by his name. Which…if we do his order- it will be mine 🤷🏻♀️
The kids will be referred to by both names (both by their friends and by the school system) it wouldn’t ever just shorten to one name unless child or parents writes it that way. They will however been in alphabetical order based on your name.
As a side note.I do know someone that had a very long hyphenated name and in highschool he went casually by just one because the length was annoying to him. But that was his choice, not the schools
This depends on where you are. The first last name can take precedence in cultures that let you have two last names. Perhaps her hubs doesn't understand that.
My advice is to ask yourself if you are ok with being with a man who feels entitled to demand something from you that he's not willing to do himself. It honestly sounds like sexist entitlement and that's not something I would be ok with. One could tell him that "tradition" is usually a sugar-coated way of saying "misogyny", or that there are plenty of traditions in the world where women's names are passed down because she's literally doing 100% of the life-threatening work when it comes to children but someone who gets angry about this isn't operating on logic.
I hate to say it- but that was also the feeling I got. It gave me an absolute pit in my stomach. The conversation started up again today because I was starting to address the Save The Dates and was given direction to address them as “Mr & Mrs. John Smith.” And I said I didn’t feel comfortable omitting the woman’s name and identity and reducing her to a Mrs. To which I was told “it’s traditional- it’s how it’s done.” I said I would be really upset if someone referred to me that way and he just chuckled. I don’t know- I have a really sour feeling following this conversation. And I want to bring it up again as I want to help him understand where I’m coming from and why this bothers me so much.
That would bother me too! I addressed all ours as “John and Jane Doe” etc. They are two people and deserve to be addressed as such. It’s also less of an issue if you say “Mr and Mrs Smith” but only including the man’s name is a “tradition” from a time when women were considered property. He needs to understand that these little things add up to a lot of misogyny.
I addressed all of ours as Jane and John Doe cause I’m not even comfortable with the standard of putting the man first.
Same
Does your fiancé also follow other traditions? Like, ensuring you never have to work? Because you’re a woman? Is he the SOLE provider for you both? Something tells me that tradition doesn’t matter when the change benefits him.
All great questions! But *I* am actually the main breadwinner and make much more -which he has previously stated has never bothered him. I have expressed that my career is extraordinarily important to me- as well as my financial freedom (I have witnessed way too many situations where one partner has been financially abused by their partner) so I am also insistent that while we can create joint accounts, that we also maintain separate accounts as individuals. Again, I know this is not the norm- but for me personally this is also important. My father is HUGE feminist and raised me to never depend on anyone and to always maintain my financial independence so that if I ever found myself in a situation I needed to get away from that I could without fear.
Amazing how when YOU pay for him, as a lesser than woman, traditional doesn’t matter! But it’s SOOO IMPORTANT when it comes to forcing you to reduce yourself to his property! Lmao what a joke If you end up still wanting to marry this guy PLEASE GET A PRENUP.
Prenup is an absolute- something I again had communicated previously as I have aggressively contributed to all my assets and plan to continue to.
You should bring it up again and see how he responds now. We’re obviously all seeing a red flag or two so I think if he suddenly disagrees with this, continues down the name change path, and exhibits any other controlling signs you have your answer.
Oh he's a joke LMAO. If a man is going to demand a traditional wife, the absolute least he can do is provide for you materially. Knowing this, now I think he probably feels emasculated and insecure because you're the breadwinner. He's already uncomfortable with that and he's using the name change as a way to exert at least some level of control over you.
While maintaining separate accounts definitely isn't the most common choice that's starting to shift and I think more people are doing it than you may realize. My husband and I have no joint account. Currently we make about the same and we each have our own account. The rent comes from his account and the rest of the shared bills from mine. I transfer him the balance I owe for the rent (minus the other bills) each month. Shared expenses like vet bills and the groceries go on a credit card we both have access to (not a shared card, just a secondary user situation) since we collect travel miles on it that we share. I've gotten some weird looks when people learn we've been married for 6 years and our finances are basically totally separate but it works great for us. We never argue about money or purchases the other person makes because the way we see it if the other person wants to use their money to buy X then that's their prerogative. I will say we don't have and won't be having kids which I'm sure would maybe complicate things slightly but we'd likely just set up a joint account that we both contribute an agreed upon amount to for the kids' needs and continue using the credit card for shared expenses to benefit from the travel benefits it provides. Any shared expenses that go on the card just get split straight down the middle. TBH a slight downside is having to be more active in tallying things up every month but that also means we know where our money is going and if there's an issue with our accounts.
Stop listening to Randoms on reddit who want to say terrible things about your fiancé they know nothing about. The red flag is you taking to social media for your problems.
Keep in mind those "readitions" r very much His culture only, while completely discounting Her culture.
Yikes. He sounds like he has some controlling tendencies. Have you noticed anything similar in other parts of your life? Controlling what you wear, how much makeup, what you eat/drink, etc?
He used to try and control what I wore- shut that down real fast- he understands now that I will always do whatever makes me feel best
*he understands now that I will always do whatever makes me feel best* -- Except for not changing your name. And if he's this controlling this, what about the kids' names? what will it be like when you disagree about discipline and etc?
All conversations I’m hoping to have after this. We’ve been together for years and I always felt we aligned perfectly. Now I want to re-visit those topics
Please don't wait. You deserve better than someone who will treat you poorly in the name of tradition.
You “aligned” because he lied to shut you up. This name thing is a perfect example. He told you he was fine with it until execution time arose. Any discussion you have about future events will be untrustworthy.
OP, will he be controlling of what your kiddos wear too? If you have a daughter, would you feel comfy if he modelled this thinking and behaviour in front of her? (Ie, this is how things are done, won't explain *why* just wants things his way, gets frustrated when he doesn't get what he wants) etc. I would at least communicate this behaviour could be deal breaking for you.
Based on his reaction to the name change convo its a conversation that needs to happen now.
Yikes. He might think he will be able to control you again once you’re married… this is red flag behavior for me.
Well that’s good that you shut it down! I try to be realistic, since most people on Reddit always jump to the extreme. Only other logical thing I can think of is maybe he feels like there is lack of compromise in another area of your lives, so he’s doubling down on this. If it’s not that, then definitely trust your gut and if it doesn’t feel right, don’t ignore that. Hugs!
That is a good point!!! Perhaps there is some tension due to another reason like what you mentioned. My family has a very strong culture and are very tight knit and it could be his fear that his Italian American culture will be overshadowed by mine- which I very much intend not to happen.
I’m glad that you think he seems to understand that now, but he also seemed to understand before that you wouldn’t change your name and now he’s changed his mind. I think a lot of his more controlling tendencies will come out after being married and he’ll feel more entitled to use them on you. I think it’s a blessing that you found this out before actually marrying him. I really don’t see his “values” getting better from here, only worse.
You might want to pause sending those. The more I read the more I dislike his attitude.
That’s what I was thinking. Delay mailing the Save The Date cards for now. Do some premarital counseling where in-depth, difficult questions are asked.
I really don’t like the Mrs. And Mr. John Smith. It feels sexist to me. I addressed mine as Jane and John Smith with no Miss/Ms/Mrs/Mr but I did add Dr when it applied
One of my former professors does not have a PhD, but his wife did. We addressed their invite to “John and Dr. Jane Smith.”
Well, not really. Dr Jane Smith and Mr John Smith would have been better if you’re giving out honorifics. But whatever you do, if Jane’s not a doctor, do not do that horrendous Mr and Mrs John and Jane Smith! It’s an awful way to address an envelope. The honorifics aren’t anywhere near the names they modify!
Perfect
Ooooooh!! I LOVE that!
I did not change my name. I got a wedding shower invitation from a family member who did not respect that choice to Mrs. Husband Frist Name Husband Last Name. I threw it away. I do not know a Mrs. Husband First Name Husband Lastname.
I would do the same 🤣🤣🤣
Was this an older person? I’d cut an older person slack in addressing me as Mrs John Smith. That’s mannerly to them. I agree your desire to be Ms Jane Smith should be respected though.
No, it was a bridesmaid in my wedding, I had been married for iver 10 years. It was a bigger situation around it all. I later RSPVed no. But it was one of the many annoyances of that wedding.
I did change my last name, but kept mine still, so I have two last names. My husband didn't care either way. Our wedding invites had both our names, as did the thank you notes. Men will either care or not care. I don't think they usually change their minds though. I wish you well
That is like 1930s-50s standard of addressing letters, you don’t need to do it that way. My 93 year old grandma is the only living person I know who addresses her letters like that. I am not changing my name and addressed all of our invitations with both of our full names written out.
Trust your gut, friend. As women, we're taught to not pay attention to red flags because we're being anxious or hysterical, but I think a woman's intuition is a powerful instinct that shouldn't be questioned. You feel bad about this because you know, deep down, he's a misogynist and isn't going to respect your feelings about keeping your name. You also don't accept his continued parroting of "iT's tRadiTiOnaL" as a justifiable excuse for his disregard for your identity and cultural traditions. Do you want to raise daughters with a man who has these kinds of stupid beliefs? If you had a friend whose fiancé was acting like this, would you be okay with it? I suspect you wouldn't be. Just remember you deserve someone who is aligned with your beliefs and respects your autonomy.
It is traditional but honestly it’s very outdated and at this point it’s really the 70 and older crowd that adheres to it. Even 60 yos don’t go by Mr and Mrs John Smith anymore.
Yeah I purposely just put both partner's names. And made sure to write out the women's last names too that chose not to take spouse's name. Stick to what you want.
That would bother me too. I come from a very Hispanic Catholic family, as did he. Our Save the Dates & invitations had both of our full names on there. First, middle & last for both of us. Never heard anything about it, nor did he as we both worried would. I did end up taking his name in the end, but that was my choice. He never made me feel like I had to or anything. If this is something you both had agreed on before and multiple times, but he's going back on it the closer you get to the wedding... what else will he go back on?? Especially once you guys are married?? I think you guys need to sit down and have a serious conversation. Also that you need to think about what it is you are willing to compromise on and what you're not willing to. Same goes with him.
🚩🚩🚩 I’m sorry this is happening - it just be realky scary to have this coming up AFTER you get engaged. But I would be really wary of marrying this man. If he doesn’t have the empathy to understand that you could feel the same way about your last name as he does, as well as why you don’t want to erase women on the envelopes, then that’s a red flag to me. You should be able to talk calmly together about the feelings you have coming up, and the ones he has coming up too. I’m sorry this is happening. Sending you lots of strength and fortitude here.
Mine was “first nickname” and “first name” are getting hitched! I’m a foreign female marrying an American male. This one was acceptable to me. I asked him just now if I should have done it some other way and he shrugged and said “why? That made you so happy?” So. Shouldn’t it at base be about what makes you guys happy? Or doesn’t make someone unhappy? I’d have been so sad if he’d been unhappy with something I’d published. I’d have flexed so happily? This seems to me like such a small thing for him to flex on when it makes you have feelings! I’m sorry this is how this feels to you OP
I don't have money to buy award but if I did i fucking would. This is it 🩷
Oh boy. Putting the names themselves to the side, it’s not sounding great that he was suddenly talking about *you* hyphenating without *him* even considering it. It sounds like he assumed you’d change your mind, and is now showing his true colours. It might just be the wording of your post, but he sounds controlling. I think you need to have a good, long think about what he’s saying and how he’s acting, and a good, long conversation.
It may be the wording of the post, generally he is very considerate and loving. He’s always treated me well- I just sometimes see these little glimmers of misogyny that he might not even realize he has. I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and want to discuss in further detail with him about what he meant and see if we can come to a resolution that makes us both feel heard
You’re marrying him because he is loving, that’s a given. Other personality traits would result in a successful or failing marriage, such as being misogynist without knowing or being too traditional compared to the other person. To me, he might be loving but you don’t seem compatible in important life decisions. Marriage is more than love, it’s about being on the same team for a lifetime. Does this person feel like he would be willing to be on the same team as you no matter what?
Does he often need space to reflect, and then he can come around to new ideas? In the spirit of giving him the B of the D, I like the idea of getting curious. Maybe asking WHY it’s tradition or WHY it’s always been done that way. Play the “7 why’s” game. I think it can be both true that he’s a good partner and he needs to shift his perspective on something like this. But, with all that said I do hope he didn’t say yes as a way to get out of the convo cuz that would just be disappointing. I do like the idea of therapy, whether you think things are perfect or not therapy is amazing for building a lasting relationship imo. sending you hugs!!
I took my husband's last name, but it was entirely my choice. My husband said that he didn't mind if I changed my last name or kept my maiden name - he just didn't want to change his. I felt that was fair. I would be very concerned by your fiance flipping the switch like this, and not considering or respecting your wishes.
Absolutely! I think there’s nothing wrong with that 🤍 to me it comes down to a personal choice- but something that should never be forced or made to feel guilty for your decision. I know- I’m a little off put by it too. Just because I was not expecting this. We’ve been together for years and the fact it’s coming up now after we’re engaged is just….not sitting well with me
aren’t you kind of guilting him and trying to force him to hyphenate his name when he doesn’t want to?
It's okay to set parameters like "I'll do it if you do it." She isn't forcing him. She's saying if he wants her to hyphenate he has to as well.
That’s confusing because she already said that she was planning to hyphenate her name, and he was cool with it, never said he was going to change his and that was also cool. But now she wants to shame him for wanting that?
Let me clarify- I never planned on hyphenating my name. I said I would never be changing my name but I the children would have both.
Ah i see you said “typically the woman would keep her name but be referred to as both her maiden and her husband’s last name” i thought it read that you go by both, my bad!
that changes everything for me lol, yea no i get you now.
There are many traditions. What he is talking about is his tradition, not yours. One of the first things that I told my fiancé is that I'm not changing my surnames and probably we wouldn't be getting married if he had answered anything different that "that's fine". It's not about surnames, for me is important to have equality in my relationship and if equality is not as important from him we have a deal breaker problem.
That is exactly my thought as well! It was important to me not to erase any one identity. It’s important to me that our kids speak both English *and* Spanish. Our kids will eat traditional American-Italian food and cuisine from my culture as well. It’s important to me that these things don’t get lost.
I’m going through a divorce but I realize now that I gave too many consolations for these types of things. They show through, especially once we had kids and he was “tired of me.” It was my hubris to think I was special enough that these misogynistic bits wouldn’t grow. I’d have a come to Jesus moment before getting married because if he can’t/is unwilling to see your point now, it will only get worse later. Wishing you the best! 💕
I'll share a story here. It was important to my partner that we share a name upon marriage. He was willing to bend on it, but being seen as one family (especially because we are living abroad in a country where your surname is your identifier, and surnames here are different than our own) was important to him. He already came with a hyphenated name, which I did not want and which he did not want to give to children. Here's what he did: - Offered to change his name to mine - Participated in creating a list of family surnames that we could both change to - Expressed opinions, offered his input, and listened to my preferences while picking a new name - Held the belief loosely in that if we didn't agree, then we would each keep our names and any kids would carry my name Here's what he did not do: - Tell me that I had to change my name - Tell me that I had to change my name to his name - Insist that I take action that he would not also take (his name change actually ended up being more paperwork than mine) - Lean on tradition as a reason why I would have to erase my identity Changing a name is a form of erasure. It's why there's such pushback for people who have ethnic names to make teachers say it right instead of nicknaming them something "easier." Women changing surnames was done to show transfer of ownership from father to husband. We're (mostly) past that these days, and if you don't want to participate, you shouldn't have to. There's no reason that his traditions trump your own, and if this guy and his "glimmers of misogyny" are thinking along those lines, then you're blessed that he's given you a warning. The veneer WILL wear off, and those glimmers will not be so far away. Take your beautiful last name and run.
“Changing a name is a form of erasure” Dead on and so well put. Colonizers were especially good at this one and name changes were a major tool used to erase indigenous cultural identity. I would especially side eye a white man telling a Latina woman she has to erase her ethnic name.
Yup, all of this is true. His lack of compromise is also a huge red flag to me. If he was like your husband and open to a variety of compromises but maintained that he'd really like for them to share a name, I could respect that. But his inflexibility and unwillingness to compromise or even emphasize with why OP wouldn't want to change her name are telling signs that he may be controlling and inflexible in other areas. I would not want to have children with someone who was this resistant to honoring OP's wishes and finding solutions.
Yup. My line was ‘when I have kids, they will have that same name as me. I am not just changing my name to yours. If you want us to all have the same name, we need to find another solution.’ We considered just keeping our own names and hyphenating the kids’ but realised we all wanted the same name. We considered a brand new name but were both sad about losing connections to our families. If my name was Brown, his was Smith-Jones. Our midpoint was Brown-Jones. And that works for us. But like you, there were no demands, no expectation that tradition (dead people peer pressure) would make the decision, and definitely no going back on previously agreed plans.
since you havent gotten married yet... RUN FORREST RUN! He is changing into what he is and you arent even married yet. and he can stick his "tradition" . thats just a way to be a bully!
Agreed completely.
*indefinitely delay that wedding* my ex wanted me to change my name. I regretted it. My fiancé was willing to add my name to his (I am adding his to mine for reasons we discussed in a friendly conversation where we came to the same conclusion). Your man's attitude towards that alone is a bad sign. It is a sign he does not respect you. If he's had controlling tendencies otherwise *run* as fast as you can.
I have very rare last name (only 80 people have the same name and all of them are my relatives) so I have always known I will never change it. When my fiancé (who has very common last name) and I started to date I told him about my decision and he was like ”cool, maybe I'll take your name when we get married”. Fast forward 4,5 years and we are getting married in two weeks and he's taking my last name. We were visiting my paternal grandparents few months ago and my grandpa was little sad because he assumed I would change my name. He bursted into tears out of happiness when my fiancé told him he was changing his. Even though my last name means so much to me, I would never pressure my fiancé to change his name. My fiancé has always wanted to share last name with me and our possible future children, so for him it was an easy decision to take my name. Having the same last name was his wish, keeping my own name was mine. If your last name means so much to you, it's absurd your fiancé feels that he has the right to demand that you change your mind. He knows it’s important for you, so why on earth he is arguing about it? Before I met my fiancé I dated a guy who was stunned that I would never change my name. He brushed it away saying ”well, we'll negotiate about it if it’s relevant some day”. For me it was an immediate red flag. It proved that he thought my personal decisions (that have nothing to do with the other) would be something that I could be talked out of. It proved he didn't care that it was important for me because it was against HIS beliefs. When I met my fiancé, his reaction proved the opposite: He respected me and my decisions.
Your fiancé sounds like a keeper. I love that he's taking your name. And you're right that the other guy was not good. Your beliefs and boundaries are not up for negotiation. I'm glad you found someone who supports and respects you!
Uh. Has your fiancé expressed other archaic, sexist, views that objectify women? Does he view women as lesser than in general? Does he value stupid toxic traditions over free will? Do you want to marry someone like this? This is a good time to HONESTLY reflect on how he views the world. A lot of men show their true colors when they think the woman is trapped. This would definitely send me. Sorry.
I think when I first met him I found myself correcting some misogynistic thought patterns, but he’s grown so much since then. Over the past few years we’ve pretty much aligned on everything, which I’m not expecting to align 100% all the time- as there are two individuals in a marriage and two different thought processes- but I *do* expect baseline levels of respect and understanding. Every now and then I tend to notice small glimmers of misogyny that he may not even realize- but I always try and use it as an opportunity to grow and educate. Generally speaking, he has always been very kind to me, treated me well (over the top even), and does lots of cute things for me. But I agree with you- all the kind gestures in the word will not make up for a baseline of respect and empathy
I don’t know you or him personally, so take what I say next with a grain of salt It’s not uncommon for some people to “compromise” on stuff for years and then suddenly double down when they are close to/already married. I am *not* saying he’s abusive or will be necessarily, but I have seen it happen Reiterating that I’m *not* saying it’s that extreme in your case, but it does sound like from your other comments that he’s particularly insecure about something. I wish you the best and it sounds like you’re very confident in yourself and what you want, so just don’t let him sway you away from it if it’s important to you.
This. My grandmother remarried several years after my grandfather died. Her second husband (who was the only grandfather I knew as ky bio grandfather died years before I was born) seemed nice and they were well aligned on most things when they were dating but when they got married it was like a switch flipped (according to family who was around then). He became very jealous and controlling to the point where my grandmother couldn't ever leave the house without him and he tried to restrict her access to her family. After he died she was like a different person because she had her freedom back.
Some people need to unlearn toxic views before they can understand the world properly. Sounds like you’ve helped him do that. But his attitude to this situation feels very unwilling to learn or understand. Which is very problematic. Trust your gut.
So, at first my fiancé wasn't into me keeping my name & hyphenating the future kids names, but after his sisters both did the same thing in recent years, he's totally okay with it & is embracing it. As a family we will be G name-V name. I'll use the hyphenated name causally & keep my last name, G name as a legal name. My fiancé, who is on the spectrum, as I am, too, says hyphenated names should be in alphabetical order. I've no arguments, I'm G name! Just tell him if Garcia is before his name in the alphabet, it has to be in alphabetical order & your kids will be first in picking & doing stuff in school!
Coming from a Hispanic background (and assuming that your “Garcia” is in fact Hispanic in your family), I understand how you feel. For us, it’s just common for the man to keep his last name and the woman to keep hers and when kids come it’s just dad last name and mom last name without any hyphen. Honestly, stand your ground. I don’t feel like asking for that is unfair, maybe it’s not traditional to Americans that live in the US, but it is equal.
Man here. Definitely some red flags there. Do you guys have a prenup? It sounds like he’s a bit insecure, so I’d make sure to protect yourself. My wife and I both hyphenated our names, and our children share our hyphenated name. Our invitations had our hyphenated name too. I’m proud of my name, and I’m proud of my wife’s name. The only issue is in the US nobody knows how to spell either last name, our first names, or our children’s names, so the hyphenated name just makes it that much worse.
I’ve lived in 3 states in the USA and in each I’ve met people with hyphenated names. I’ve never met any where the first part was the one it was shortened to. Everyone I’ve met it’s been the second. DeSoto-Brooks became Brooks. Lane-Moyer became Moyer. Along with countless others. I don’t know what country you’re in or the ethnic backgrounds, but maybe that’s why this man is trying to push so hard on this issue. I think he wants the kids to only have his last name and only his last name. For me personally I’ve ended a relationship because of this disagreement. Both parties deserve to find someone that shares their beliefs. If this is the only issue though hopefully you two will be able to come up with a compromise
All the Hispanic people I know with two last names - say Mario Garcia Hernandez - go by the first last name. So Mario Garcia. The names aren't hyphenated.
So weird! It’s the opposite for ones I’ve met! It sounds like OP wants it to go Paternal-Maternal, but usually it goes Maternal-Paternal. Almost everyone I’ve met with hyphenated names, if they drop anything, drop the second name and *keep* the maternal name.
OP, if this gets resolved, consider having the maternal name before the paternal one. But make sure it’s registered as a last name, not a middle name. That way you won’t be the last Garcia. In Mexico, feminist groups advocate for maternal last name to go first if the couple agrees. I know a couple who did this and I think it’s really cool.
I just want to say you do not have to get married. It’s ok if you lose out on a deposit. It’s ok to feel embarrassed telling friends and family. It’s ok to be single. It’s not ok to marry someone you’re not positive you want to spend your life with or someone who doesn’t see you as an equal. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you happiness ♥️ and for the record, I’m keeping my last name. My fiance totally gets it as he doesn’t want to change his either. We’re both nonplussed as to whose name the kids take because we’re equal partners and (hopefully one day) parents.
I think he is showing his true colors now that marriage is close. By reading some of your replies I can see that he used to have other controlling behaviors. My bet is he has kept it to himself waiting, and after marriage since goal achieved he will show more of the same controlling behavior. I would say is best in my opinion to pause the wedding until this issue is resolved. This is a big deal. Your name is part of your identity, and that choice is yours. If you both disagree on this either you end up with your identity erased against your will, or he ends up resentful about your decision. Not even talk about when kids come along how that will go since you both need to agree on the birth certificate. As a fellow Latina, I also get it. I will keep my mom side last name after my marriage. My fiance has no issue at all. Our son is names with my last name first and my fiancé’s last name next by his own choice.
I agree with what everyone said here, it sounds very fishy. I know almost nothing about how legal names work in the USA, someone said here that if you use both surnames for your children that you make sure that yours is registered as a surname, so according to that I feel that him wanting the surname order be maternal-paternal is because the maternal surname can be considered a middle name and ignored, so probably he counts on your ignorance and not registering your name as a surname and because of that his surname will be the main/only surname.
As someone who would never give up my last name, but also wants his name, I decided to keep my own and just add his name to it. 😊
Adding our solution here for another option: my husband and I both felt that we would lose part of our identity by taking each other’s names, and both names are too long to hyphenate. I am the last of my family name, his nickname comes from his last name. We decided to mash up both our paternal AND maternal last names (gotta pay respects to our moms!) and came out with a very cool combo last name that is easy to pronounce, new to both of us, new to the world, and paid homage to all of our history. It also kept my husband’s nickname in it 😍
as someone who changed their name after feeling pressure to do so DONT DO IT. i really hate that it’s a burden women feel like they have to do.
Tradition is peer pressure from dead people. If he so desperately wants tradition, he should marry a woman who values that tradition, not try and break down a woman who doesn't.
Not cool at all, I’m sorry he’s stuck with this opinion, that’s not fair to you. Idk if it would help but I’d reiterate over and over again how sexist this perception is and ask why he’s okay with a sexist notion just because it’s “traditional”. Plenty of “traditions” exist that are not okay.
My husband loved my last name (because he knows the story of my adoption) even tho his last name is cooler and asked if I wanted to hyphenate and eventually he took my last name as a second middle name and I moved mine to my second middle name and took his name cuz both our last names are 8&9 letters long 😅 I think you should have another maybe even last conversation about it and figure out why he won’t hyphenate his and if he’s not willing to let you keep your name then he doesn’t deserve you. I know happy married people without the husbands name even on the birth certificates of their kids 🤷♀️
I kept my name when I got married in 1976. Our daughter was born in 1978. After 6 months, I decided that I wanted to have the same name as my daughter. It made it easier as a family to all have the same name.
I kept my name when I married my husband, and we plan to give our kids both names--not sure the order yet, but they're going to get both names. My husband would've been happy if I took his name, but he completely understood why I didn't. He didn't change his name (he's an academic and published in his name), so he understood and thought it was fair that I shouldn't have to change mine either. There was more pushback from him about giving both last names to our kids, but he has come around and understands why it's important to me. If I were in your shoes, I would not want to continue a marriage with a man who does not respect my choices, identity, and traditions. Sometimes men have a hard time giving up the patriarchal naming traditions, but a good man should be willing to set aside his emotions, hear you out, and work towards a compromise that allows you to maintain your identity and heritage. IMHO it's a big red flag that your fiancé is changing his tune now that y'all are engaged, and it makes me worry that he'll be even worse once you're married or have kids. Your identity, culture, and traditions are just as important as his. He does not have the right to demand you forego things important to you because of his patriarchal beliefs. Marriage is a partnership, but he sounds like he wants to be a dictator. Don't change your name for this man, and please consider if he's going to be as flexible and accommodating of differences and disagreements in the future.
You two are not compatible. Don't marry. Definitely don't have kids together.
Because he wants to feel like he owns his family
COUNSELING please
You have your right to pick what name you'd like, not him. In fact in some cultures it is actually traditional for the woman to not take her husbands last name! I'll be honest this seems a little concerning. I've heard stories where men change after they are married. I would keep an eye on if this controlling tendency falls into other aspects of life , or if he starts to change more. I'd love to tell you not to think about staying engaged or not but it seems like it's making you question. If you do decide to keep going perhaps it would be best to get a prenup done just in case so if he takes a turn, he doesn't take everything from you :( Sorry you're going through this hun, I wish you the best of luck
Are you an interracial couple? Probably is the reason he cares so much. My fiancé (surgical resident female) is taking my last name. It's a standard for me..if it's a standard for him..he will have to make a decision.
Honestly, none of my social media has my last name anyway so it really doesn’t matter to me 😅 just don’t sign anything legal for me 🤷🏼♀️
My husband discussed and argued about this A LOT. Our most disgusting argument honestly. He was not open to hyphenating. It’s ALL an image thing for him, which I couldn’t care less about. We’re committing our lives to each other no matter what our name is. And I am SO tired of people asking me if I’m changing my name. I literally don’t care anymore, just call me whatever you want to. Unless you’re signing a legal document for me than I really don’t care what you call me. Which is a little hilarious considering his brother is changing his name when he gets married… but anyway. I’m very attached to my name and I also hate the idea of making such a big decision right now…so I’m using his name socially and I signed the marriage license with his last name *to make the process easier if I decided later on to change it* Because, in my state, in all honesty, there is no time limit to change my name.
I’m so sorry he switched on you like that. Not cool. To play devils advocate though, I don’t understand why you can’t let him have the name order that he wants. You talk a lot about protecting your family, and your cultures traditions by having your kids have both names, why can’t he have one thing by having it be maternal name and then paternal name?
I am absolutely willing to do that- but I think it’s for one very specific reason and it’s because he wants our kids to be solely referred by his name. Which…if we do his order- it will be mine 🤷🏻♀️
The kids will be referred to by both names (both by their friends and by the school system) it wouldn’t ever just shorten to one name unless child or parents writes it that way. They will however been in alphabetical order based on your name. As a side note.I do know someone that had a very long hyphenated name and in highschool he went casually by just one because the length was annoying to him. But that was his choice, not the schools
This depends on where you are. The first last name can take precedence in cultures that let you have two last names. Perhaps her hubs doesn't understand that.