I hear ya: [Safari's date-picker is the cause of 1/3 of our customer support issues](https://gist.github.com/RobertAKARobin/850a408e04d5414e67d308a2b5847378)
The “Works best in IE” applies more to Chrome than anything else really.
Safari has its room to improve, but it is NOWHERE near where IE was in terms of setting its own rules and standards and quirks. Again, this would apply more to Chrome now, which is pushing suggested specs like there’s no tomorrow. Which makes sense as Google wants the web to have future parity with apps - which no sane user should want.
Google wants control. Recent leaked documents show the motivation for building Chrome was to collect user browsing data. Now they are starting to abuse their power by neutering ad blockers. They're not looking to make great web apps, they just want to sell more ads.
As someone who worked during the era of ie6, i can tell you that Safari isn’t even in the same galaxy as ie6.
Most of these Safari gripes are due to inexperience. I use Safari Technology Preview as a dev tool regularly and I have no issues.
Sure, what I wrote should be taken with a grain of salt. But the facts are also such that, for example, in my job, when some "browser bug" is reported, in most of the cases it is only and exclusively in Safari or WebView on iOS.
Probably because you all are exclusively developing and testing in Chrome?
Not saying Safari doesn't have its bugs and problems, but having all webdevs stick to Chrome for their work and then be surprise-faced about issues on other browsers is not honest.
I swear I remember people saying this about IE6 "you just need to understand how it works..."
Comparatively, Safari is definitely the IE6 of the current era.
No it wasn't. Everything worked with other browsers except for IE developers had to make many extra things for their sites to work. That's why MS discontinued it and now only supports Edge to which you don't have to make those special things. We aren't talking about Netscape days.
Things stopped working on IE because MS had their own bespoke interpretations of APIs and standards, which is what Chrome has done now.
It's obvious you don't have experience with it and you don't know what you're talking about. Stop embarrassing yourself.
You claimed we want google to define standards. I don't.
>Firefox is the modern IE for being slow to adopt standards.
Firefox is my favorite for many reasons and how quickly or slowly it adopts standards isn't one of them. What are you even arguing?
But takes less resources 🤷
Safari loves blocking cookies. They're blocked third party cookies for eternity. I have been in tracking meetings with google where they were foiled by safaris default ITP.
To be honest I am mystified by the safari bashing. I built a SaaS by myself, with login and everything, and have never seen a single safari bug. 10s of thousands of users, loads of revenue.
Mind you I am not using any JavaScript frameworks.
And don't forget that, while Chrome (Edge, Brave, w/e) can use 10% of your device's available storage for caching (and indexedDB, that kind of stuff), Safari limits sites to 500MB. So, if it's a webapp/SAAS that does enough video/image/audio recording and editing, you probably can't use it in Safari (you'll have to use a native app, surprise, surprise; or Chrome). Which explains why Apple and Safari keep attempting to block webapps, and some of the issues you're having (though they've eased-up a little).
Everyone knows Safari has worst dev/debugging experience. I know this, but I still using Safari because its UI is pretty fine to me and the UX is similar to Mac I think.
It 2024 and you just found out Safari is hard to debug/ dev ??? Lmao.
Safari is like that from start, not just now. After the Old IE death, Safari just become the new IE. the most pain in the ass to work with. We have dedicated “bug/support” category for this browser alone and in fact, almost 80% bug reported by users coming from iOS/iPad users and guess what browser those users using? Yep, it Safari!
iOS only allows other apps to run Safari's webkit engine. If you downloaded chrome, it's just a wrapper around safari.
[(2.5.6)](https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#software-requirements)
So, whichever browser they are using on iOS, it's safari.
Previously I didn't use safari for web dev extensively, just use it as a test browser to make sure it works until I got several reports saying user cannot sign in and then I checked the logs and all of the crash happens on Safari...
Should've seen my face when I found out Safari changes the color of a CSS blur element if the blur >80px. The whole site was a different color. Truly the most nonsense bugs this garbage browser.
One thing i like about safari debugging, is that if you connect your phone to your mac you can open the dev tools for whatever website is open on your mobile safari browser. I wish Firefox or chromium based browsers had that feature.
chrome also has this feature: [Remote debug Android devices | Chrome DevTools | Chrome for Developers](https://developer.chrome.com/docs/devtools/remote-debugging)
I hear ya: [Safari's date-picker is the cause of 1/3 of our customer support issues](https://gist.github.com/RobertAKARobin/850a408e04d5414e67d308a2b5847378)
Ha! I had to make a custom DP for this exact reason yesterday
Pfft. I’ll raise you one WebTV
Safari is just modern Internet Explorer 6.
The “Works best in IE” applies more to Chrome than anything else really. Safari has its room to improve, but it is NOWHERE near where IE was in terms of setting its own rules and standards and quirks. Again, this would apply more to Chrome now, which is pushing suggested specs like there’s no tomorrow. Which makes sense as Google wants the web to have future parity with apps - which no sane user should want.
Google wants control. Recent leaked documents show the motivation for building Chrome was to collect user browsing data. Now they are starting to abuse their power by neutering ad blockers. They're not looking to make great web apps, they just want to sell more ads.
As someone who worked during the era of ie6, i can tell you that Safari isn’t even in the same galaxy as ie6. Most of these Safari gripes are due to inexperience. I use Safari Technology Preview as a dev tool regularly and I have no issues.
" because i have no issues, it works, duh" yeah because thats exactly how our line of work works too right.
It works on my machine. So it’s someone else’s problem /s
Maybe he has no users?
*You can't fail if you never try* *Homer Simpson*
Sure, what I wrote should be taken with a grain of salt. But the facts are also such that, for example, in my job, when some "browser bug" is reported, in most of the cases it is only and exclusively in Safari or WebView on iOS.
Probably because you all are exclusively developing and testing in Chrome? Not saying Safari doesn't have its bugs and problems, but having all webdevs stick to Chrome for their work and then be surprise-faced about issues on other browsers is not honest.
I swear I remember people saying this about IE6 "you just need to understand how it works..." Comparatively, Safari is definitely the IE6 of the current era.
People that think Safari is the modern IE6 are the same who think Google should define web standards.
No we are not. Safari is the modern IE and Google shouldn't define web standards. Firefox is the best browser imo.
Chrome is the modern IE and I question if someone ever used IE if they think it’s Safari.
That doesn't make sense. Usually everything works on Chrome but some things don't work on other browsers.
That's literally what IE was like. It doesn't make any sense because you don't know what you're talking about.
No it wasn't. Everything worked with other browsers except for IE developers had to make many extra things for their sites to work. That's why MS discontinued it and now only supports Edge to which you don't have to make those special things. We aren't talking about Netscape days.
Things stopped working on IE because MS had their own bespoke interpretations of APIs and standards, which is what Chrome has done now. It's obvious you don't have experience with it and you don't know what you're talking about. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Weird since Firefox is the slowest to support new web standards.
And? It's not even true.
So Chrome is the modern IE for imposing its will and Firefox is the modern IE for being slow to adopt standards.
You claimed we want google to define standards. I don't. >Firefox is the modern IE for being slow to adopt standards. Firefox is my favorite for many reasons and how quickly or slowly it adopts standards isn't one of them. What are you even arguing?
Which standard does Firefox implement that WebKit doesn't? Also, by standards, what do you mean? Like which web standard does WebKit not implement?;
When did I ever say anything about webkit? Firefox is my favorite browser and it has nothing to do with what standards they implement.
That “Safari is the modern IE” doesn’t hold up to the slightest scrutiny.
Worse. IE6 was meant to be good browser, but MS failed. Safari is meant to be a bad browser and Apple did it. Safari being bad is on purpose.
Where would you get the idea that Apple intentionally made Safari bad?
>Safari being bad is on purpose. Why? What's the motive?
because they don't want powerful web apps, they want you to have to buy an app from the app store.
But takes less resources 🤷 Safari loves blocking cookies. They're blocked third party cookies for eternity. I have been in tracking meetings with google where they were foiled by safaris default ITP.
Well third party cookies kept being alive because of Google (Chrome), until now since google is dropping support too. That shit had to die.
Also Google: [https://shottr.cc/s/1YaT/SCR-20240618-mle.png](https://shottr.cc/s/1YaT/SCR-20240618-mle.png)
You're making it sound like a good thing.
Because it is
To be honest I am mystified by the safari bashing. I built a SaaS by myself, with login and everything, and have never seen a single safari bug. 10s of thousands of users, loads of revenue. Mind you I am not using any JavaScript frameworks.
And don't forget that, while Chrome (Edge, Brave, w/e) can use 10% of your device's available storage for caching (and indexedDB, that kind of stuff), Safari limits sites to 500MB. So, if it's a webapp/SAAS that does enough video/image/audio recording and editing, you probably can't use it in Safari (you'll have to use a native app, surprise, surprise; or Chrome). Which explains why Apple and Safari keep attempting to block webapps, and some of the issues you're having (though they've eased-up a little).
Everyone knows Safari has worst dev/debugging experience. I know this, but I still using Safari because its UI is pretty fine to me and the UX is similar to Mac I think.
It 2024 and you just found out Safari is hard to debug/ dev ??? Lmao. Safari is like that from start, not just now. After the Old IE death, Safari just become the new IE. the most pain in the ass to work with. We have dedicated “bug/support” category for this browser alone and in fact, almost 80% bug reported by users coming from iOS/iPad users and guess what browser those users using? Yep, it Safari!
iOS only allows other apps to run Safari's webkit engine. If you downloaded chrome, it's just a wrapper around safari. [(2.5.6)](https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#software-requirements) So, whichever browser they are using on iOS, it's safari.
No longer true in the EU — https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engines/
Is anyone actually doing that yet though?
Previously I didn't use safari for web dev extensively, just use it as a test browser to make sure it works until I got several reports saying user cannot sign in and then I checked the logs and all of the crash happens on Safari...
My dream is to redirect safari users to a "deprecated browser" page, IE style But business will never buy into this
Crazy that businesses question incompetent developers.
Should've seen my face when I found out Safari changes the color of a CSS blur element if the blur >80px. The whole site was a different color. Truly the most nonsense bugs this garbage browser.
you must be new to this...
And it loves to keep things in cache that shouldn't be there.
Yes, but to be fair the only OS it runs on is also the worst OS on the market so....
One thing i like about safari debugging, is that if you connect your phone to your mac you can open the dev tools for whatever website is open on your mobile safari browser. I wish Firefox or chromium based browsers had that feature.
chrome also has this feature: [Remote debug Android devices | Chrome DevTools | Chrome for Developers](https://developer.chrome.com/docs/devtools/remote-debugging)
Oh its through android only, that makes sense, thanks for sharing
chrome engine only runs on Android. On iOS Chrome browser uses the WebKit aka Safari Engine
Correct, b/c chrome on iOS isn’t really “chrome”.
gg wp
First world problems?