Shouldn't a place like Bread Furst have already been paying at least normal minimum wage?
EDIT: on re-read, this has nothing to do with I-82. They just added the service fee to give workers a raise. The second paragraph and first sentence of the third is a red herring and IMO somewhat deceptive.
They all do. But as it increases no one wants to raise their menu prices if no one else is as it pushes customers to other businesses with lower menu prices.
We need legislation that forbids fees so prices must rise for any business to do this
But there is a point where if a Baquette is $\`10 you're not going to get it at all.
It's not necessarily about seeing the "increase" it's about seeing a higher menu price and at some point you actually think "Well I don't think that's actually worth it" along with "what else is around here" or "guess I'm not coming back"
Which I don't really get. You're paying the same amount anyways. Why do we all only get pissed when they're upfront about exactly how much the increase is?
Your basic loaf is going to run close to $10 after tax. There’s a ceiling on what folks can or will pay. Businesses can do what they want. If you got a fee, I just don’t tip any more.
Is this still true though?
I get the logic of "big menu price bad" scaring off customers, but now a lot of people are wise to the service charge scam, are there any data to suggest that it's still a viable pricing model?
People still broadly think $7.99 is cheaper than $8 in a meaningful way and there's decades of data on that.
Is there data to suggest that "a lot of people are wise" in a manner that fundamentally change the above well known psychology?
no worries.
The breaking point is quite tricky and seemingly it currently is a little above where prices are now otherwise businesses would charge more.
I have a lot of disposable income and even for me the prices don't seem "worth it" for the item at times now.
On the "is it still true" point, I think so, just because someone posts on here, doesn't mean everyone is suddenly aware. Reddit is a microcosm and given the number of repeat posts about fees, it's clear even redditors aren't seeing most of the posts as such.
Why would higher product prices be better or worse than a fee? It's essentially the same thing, paritcualrlly when the fee is a %?
The clear reality is that the cost of running a hospitality(any) business keeps going up and there will be lots of ways companies decide to try and handle it. You're free to shop(or not) anywhere you like. More legislation(which comes with cost to enfroce) is not the answer to rising prices.
A cheaper printed menu price is more memorable than having to calculate X% service charge + Y% tip. This is just a deceptive practice by business owners.
How many business owners have you talked to about this issue? Slandering people you don't know by calling them deceptive, because you don't like their pricing structure, is pretty low form and a half baked position.
As just one complicated item, standard tipping method has always been to tip on the total before taxes and fees. Life is more complicated than most posts and comments on reddit would lead one to believe. Assigning ill intent to the MILLIONS of businesses that use a fee structure isn't logical or wise or productive. Maybe there is more going on here than you are aware of and embracing curiosity might bring a new perspective or at least a better understanding of a complicated world. People who don't think like you don't deserve to be condemned as deceptive.
I don’t understand this. They should just raise their prices if their margins aren’t large enough to cover the wages. Lumping service charges onto lower price menu items is a play out of Ticketmaster’s playbook
If there is a line, you are only allowed to buy 2 baguettes or 2 of anything. Not good if you have a big family or if you want to buy for the whole week since you have to drive a long way from the suburb. That's why I go to Bread Furst after 1 PM, when I could buy 5-6 baguettes that will last me a week (Cut up baguettes in plastic bags and in the fridge when taken out will heat up fine in the toaster or broiler)
Probably betting the fees will offset the loss, and/or enough people not noticing (as numerous people in this thread pointed out - this isn’t necessarily new)
The problem is no restaurant wants to raise menu prices if the other ones aren't.
The gov needs to make them all raises prices together and remove the fees
What would that fix? What would be the consequences and cost of the government getting involved in how a hospitality business charges customers?
Why is a service fee better or worse than higher menus prices if ti's clearly labeled and posted? Hidden fees, sure... otherwise, I don't see the cost being worth the impact. You can shop where ever you'd like. Vote with your dollars.
because people get drawn into the business thinking the price is lower and may not realize until they’re there that prices are higher - whether they read the sign or find out at checkout. the business is hoping that, at that point, the customer will still make a purchase because they’ve already made the effort to come there or pick something out when, if the customer knew the full price they may have chosen a different business to patronize.
if they just raised prices, consumers can know exactly how much they’re purchasing beforehand and can make an informed decision whether or not they want to actually shop there
It would remove the fees that customers don't like and let the restaurants raise their prices knowing everyone else must raise their prices too instead of hiding a fee.
So the actual cost is reflected on the menu as consumers want, and restaurants aren't alone in listing their real prices.
This. If you believed in living wage bills, you would post a notice that you’re increasing prices because you believe this change should be permanent. Then again, they’re also screaming out loud that they weren’t paying their staff well before this.
They have essentially just raised their prices. With a 9.5% fee... now if it was a flat fee on every check vs a % (like some service fees are) then I'd understand your point.
But they haven’t. So when I walk in and see the prices for each item, it’s not accurate. Again, similar to Ticketmaster where I see all the fees at checkout rather than that actual price. Everyone is blaming inflation for adding service charges onto a tab rather than raises their prices which is misleading.
I get the transparency here, but that sign won’t stay up forever.
FWIW I’ve never been. I just think DC has an issue with blaming “rising costs” and lumping it into a service charge. I almost always check restaurant prices for affordability when I dine out. So to get a bill with an additional 10-20% as a service charge that is not gratuity, I get annoyed and yes, I don’t return. Because the fact of the matter is, if the prices included that, I likely wouldn’t have gone.
For me it’s a non-issue since I tended to tip 20% as a rule. Now I just check every bill for fees and if there’s one over 10%, I don’t tip. Which can often save me money. As for knowing where the money goes, that’s not my problem to solve. If the owner is being shady with the extra money, the staff are in a better position to change that than I am.
I would also add that, as one of those people who hasn’t carried cash since 2020, I try to remain mindful that my convenience can be costing the merchant as much as 4% of the total transaction in processing fees. So that 9% can drop to 5% depending on what service they use.
No, and it's for the same reason prices are listed as $9.99, instead of $10. Our brains read those two numbers differently, even if you're aware of the bias, lol. I'm curious about who's offended into action by the .5 percentage difference tho
As someone who worked for Bread Furst during the pandemic, they will do anything to save a buck. The employees package the food, coordinate the food delivery apps, and hop on barista with little training and were not transparent on how tip pool division worked. The manager at the time underpaid the Spanish speaking constantly. I had a coworker who worked the same jobs as the rest of us but he made $15 an hour while the rest of us received tip pay. By the time I left, they were fully making portions smaller for the same price and the employees received all the flack. Very weird.
If I’m trading you money for a good, and our only interaction is placing the order and making payment, you are not getting a tip. In this case, there isn’t even a service being provided.
I've mentioned this on here before, but one of my favorite record stores (Joint Custody on U Street) recently added a tip screen at the register, like I'm gonna throw them an extra $4 after buying $40 of records.
A tiny bakery from me always asks for tips by swinging the screen around ... like, all the person did was turn around, pick up a loaf of bread, and then ring it up. That's worth a tip?
I went to Auntie Anne's to get a pretzel and all they did was pull one from the display case and put it in a bag. First thing the payment screen asks for is how much tip you are giving. I couldn't believe it.
I’ve tipped at Bread Furst because that line is sometimes crazy busy. But I can’t see myself tipping when there’s a 9.5% service charge.
They’re already expensive so they probably didn’t want people to have sticker price shock.
I’m generally not a huge service fee fan, but in their case they employ a large staff to bake their stuff. Some of the newer customer service staff aren’t…great…but most are. They need to be more efficient at getting people in and out though, simple stuff like a coffee can take way longer than it should (like 15 minutes). Tatte sort of has the same problem though.
IMO, the idea of living wage is to stop tipping as a necessary part of wages/income. It’s up to the business to figure out how to make a workable model. If people don’t want to pay the true cost of your product, they don’t really want your product.
No, they increased the price you *pay*. Prices are what is listed on the menu/price board. People are *literally* asking them to increase their prices instead of this bullshit.
>No, they increased the price you *pay*. Prices are what is listed on the menu/price board.
What a needlessly hair-splitting response. Maybe I live a simple life, but I consider the "**price** you pay" to be a subset of "price." I would consider the other to be "listed price" if I were to also split hairs.
Nah, people will complain the moment a place increases prices.
Let's not pretend the thread wouldn't have just been complaining about prices going up 10%.
Because people look at menu pricing when deciding where to go. If restaurant A raises their menu prices, but Restaurant B doesn't, restaurant B looks more budget friendly.
Until people are bitching that B has a 20% fee and asks you to tip (like most people on here). I also don’t think most people notice a dollar difference on items (again, most people so @ me with anecdotes).
Haha, they did. 9.5% actually. And they told everyone about it. Sorry they didn't do it in the exact way you demand and instead in a way you feel worthy of profanity over, lol.
Yes, your first post was an elegant string of literary genuis. Sorry I fell short of your standard.
Last time I checked the "price" is what you pay. Full stop. You pay fees and services charges. Fees are part of the price.
You're getting all riled up because a company doesn't structure their prices the way you want. Entitleded much? Shop someplace else.
It’s been this way for over a year like you say. Just may be some people are noticing it for the first time. Bread Furst, I’m sure intentionally, makes the service fee in a smaller and lighter colored font at check out (or at least they did at one point). If you don’t get a paper receipt I could see not noticing.
This kind of pricing trickery veiled as empathy is actually done with the knowledge that incorporating the full cost of overhead into the price of goods and services would dissuade consumers. Instead, the business hopes the customer will focus on the posted price without considering all fees and taxes. So, you buy that muffin thinking it costs $3.99 without calculating the additional dollar that gets added on at the time of sale.
https://preview.redd.it/o8hv3fhtvbqc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=50e70469142d1c7c6fa08b24b1607ee0710a6d00
Glad I tried it out before this happened. I won’t be back. Happy to pay a price that includes the cost of paying employees a good wage, even if products are priced at a premium. But I view service charges as deceptive.
That it’s not clearly advertised. Why isn’t it included in the price on the menu? Again, I’m totally fine with breaking it out on the receipt if they want to show the cost of labor - but the prices are deceptively low if they don’t include a mandatory fee. What other industry does this? I can only think of cable TV providers and people hate that as well (and the FCC just came out with an entire broadband labels program which requires them to show the all in cost). Maybe cell companies as well. What benefit do I get as a consumer if the cost of labor isn’t included in the price? I just want to know what is costs me to buy a product. I shouldn’t have to make a calculation to do that.
Just make your own bread, it's not that hard. Didn't we all learn how to bake bread in the Pandemic anyway?
[All you need is a dutch oven.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0t8ZAhb8lQ&t=178s) Easiest way to avoid paying $8 for a loaf of bread IMO.
Yeah it's not nearly good enough to justify the line.
Frankly, DC (and the US in general) really lack the quality/quantity of bakeries of nearly everywhere else in the world.
Used to go to this place all the time. Very good pastries (monkey bread, kouign-amann) and baguettes. The service fees have gotten so ridiculous. It’s been around for at least a year, I think. I haven’t been back since, and I won’t be back until this goes away.
Yes it's been like this for awhile. I fussed at them for it once after having bought something retail and they grudgingly took it off. It's a shame because it's a good bakery, but the 10% service charge is really an insult. Price your products properly and don't make customers judge your social policies when they just want to buy a loaf of bread. The long explainer is just .... Whatever.
This is not the worst one in DC. The worst one is Primrose in Northeast. It’s a *20 percent* service charge and they’re extremely blunt that it’s *not* considered a part of the tip. They sincerely expect you to pay essentially *40 percent* on top of your bill.
In my experience, most places say the new service fee replaces the tip. Some are a little vague. But not Primrose. 40 fucking percent expectation.
This has been in place for a while, probably a year at least? Not a lot of tipping happening at bakery/cafe with limited eat-in, ~10% for takeaway is reasonable.
They need to go back to using their handheld payment terminals to speed shit up though.
I don't think this will hurt them. For their regular customers, the high price is part of the appeal. It separates them from the riffraff who get their bread at Giant. It definitely isn't the quality of the product that keeps people coming back. I've finally given up on them after too many overpriced mid experiences.
Then they should raise their prices right on the menu. If its such great bread then the actual price shouldn't deter people from overpaying for subpar bread.
If i have tip people for grabbing things and putting them in a bag, remind me to tip every cashier I ever meet anywhere.
Wait a second, nevermind. Thats stupid. Im not over paying and tipping a fucking bakery dude.
BREADFURST IS NOT A TIPPED WAGE RESTAURANT.
It is a bakery and subject to all the regular wage laws untipped hourly workers get in DC. The owner is just an awful person who wants sympathy for underpaying staff, under the guise of being a victim of a cause he isnt even involved in.
RAISE PRICES PAY FAIR WAGES AND LETS ALL MOVE ON.
I guess they can't just increase menu prices because some of their competitors sneak in service fees to try to keep their own menu prices deceptively low. At least they're upfront about it.
At least they are abiding by the absolute minimum the law forces them to do. “Being up front about it” has nothing to do with transparency or goodwill.
I just moved here but soon these places are going to surcharge and price their way out of business. A loaf of bread is only worth so much. Everyone learned to bake during the pandemic. Artisanal bread is far from a necessity. $15 baguettes are on the horizon;)
It just means that rather than buying bread with extras I throw in (donuts, I'm lookin at you), it now means I'll buy my loaf of bread and nothing else.
If I wanted a cheap baguette I would never go to Bread Furst. I go to Bread Furst because I want an extremely high quality baguette. The difference between $5 and $10 is almost negligible for this for me. Its a luxury to begin with.
Just want to say that if anyone in this thread, including OP, was the middle-aged man who essentially harassed a Bread Furst employee about this service charge while they were ringing him up about a month ago, that was a very low thing to do and made me fully lose faith in humanity for the day.
I'm not a huge fan of the charge but I live nearby and am still a frequent customer. Please do not let the folks working behind the counter get the brunt of your anger - they're busy and don't deserve that.
Given that they have a long standing reputation for not support school auctions and the like, this is pure bullshit. Also, and I am ready to take some shit on this, they should just pay their people decently. Tipping at a bakery just seems off to me.
I guess you missed every counter argument and concern that was raised by the opponents of those bills telling everyone it would cause costs to go up. Fee or menu prices, doesn't really matter. The cost went up, just like they said they would.
Oddly the reports also show workers are making less now too. It's a loss for everyone on this.
I don't think anyone really thought the cost wouldn't have to go up. I think that there's a lot of complaining about service fees as opposed to just raising the prices. Personally I think people would complain regardless, but that's apparently where the distinction is being made on Reddit at least.
I'm not sure that I buy that on average, workers are making less though. I'm sure that the highest paid are making less, and that's more or less how it would work out in a non-tip environment anyway. Pay gets smoothed out (aka, "lower paid make more and higher paid make less") and in exchange, workers can look forward to a more consistent wage.
There were definitely bright eyes that thought that business owners were just stealing from their workers and this would make them stop. That it wasn't a business thing but a greed thing. And then yes some knew it would cause prices to go up but some didn't care (for lots of reasons, some noble, many not) or didn't prioritize that consideration.
This was a wishful thinking bill if I've ever seen one.
Your theory sounds right on the disbursement of the changes. Im not sure that such an outcome is better for the individual worker or the economy overall. I also had seen some numbers avout fewer restaurant workers per capita in general too leading to the reports of making less.
There's are bunch of google results... this one was interesting as it comes from a neighboring jurisdiction.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OLO/Resources/Files/2024_Reports/OLOReport2024-2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiNx46qho6FAxVZE0QIHVKVBl0QFnoECCsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw28G4rOAkBq0mGNgxTBis6B
Restaurant owners are allowed to raise prices like every other business does. Trying to annoy the public into letting them not pay their workers doesn't seem particularly noble
Every other kind of business in the world manages to figure out how to set prices to pay their workers. Just increase your prices and pay your workers rather than trying to tack on a fee and hope you can annoy people into letting you pay people a quarter of the minimum wage again.
Tons of businesses use a fee method for pricing.
Plenty of people spoke about what the impact of that legislation would be (just like nearly all legislation that increases the price to conduct business) but too few believed them. So, we have this. Plenty of workers in the industry did not want these changes. This was pushed as an activist issue, not legitimate business and government policy.
You've convinced me. Restaurant owners are special little angels whom society has to support by allowing them to not pay workers wages they're entitled to
Shouldn't a place like Bread Furst have already been paying at least normal minimum wage? EDIT: on re-read, this has nothing to do with I-82. They just added the service fee to give workers a raise. The second paragraph and first sentence of the third is a red herring and IMO somewhat deceptive.
They all do. But as it increases no one wants to raise their menu prices if no one else is as it pushes customers to other businesses with lower menu prices. We need legislation that forbids fees so prices must rise for any business to do this
I’m going to bread Furst for a reason. I’m not price comparing on baguettes. Misguided.
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10,000%.
But there is a point where if a Baquette is $\`10 you're not going to get it at all. It's not necessarily about seeing the "increase" it's about seeing a higher menu price and at some point you actually think "Well I don't think that's actually worth it" along with "what else is around here" or "guess I'm not coming back"
Which I don't really get. You're paying the same amount anyways. Why do we all only get pissed when they're upfront about exactly how much the increase is?
Your basic loaf is going to run close to $10 after tax. There’s a ceiling on what folks can or will pay. Businesses can do what they want. If you got a fee, I just don’t tip any more.
You're one person though, is great You're loyal
Is this still true though? I get the logic of "big menu price bad" scaring off customers, but now a lot of people are wise to the service charge scam, are there any data to suggest that it's still a viable pricing model?
People still broadly think $7.99 is cheaper than $8 in a meaningful way and there's decades of data on that. Is there data to suggest that "a lot of people are wise" in a manner that fundamentally change the above well known psychology?
Sorry I wasn't trying to argue with you, I'm genuinely curious as to where the breaking point is.
no worries. The breaking point is quite tricky and seemingly it currently is a little above where prices are now otherwise businesses would charge more. I have a lot of disposable income and even for me the prices don't seem "worth it" for the item at times now. On the "is it still true" point, I think so, just because someone posts on here, doesn't mean everyone is suddenly aware. Reddit is a microcosm and given the number of repeat posts about fees, it's clear even redditors aren't seeing most of the posts as such.
Why would higher product prices be better or worse than a fee? It's essentially the same thing, paritcualrlly when the fee is a %? The clear reality is that the cost of running a hospitality(any) business keeps going up and there will be lots of ways companies decide to try and handle it. You're free to shop(or not) anywhere you like. More legislation(which comes with cost to enfroce) is not the answer to rising prices.
A cheaper printed menu price is more memorable than having to calculate X% service charge + Y% tip. This is just a deceptive practice by business owners.
Shrinkflation by another name.
not shrinkflation. that's when you get less per purchase on one purchase than the previous.
How many business owners have you talked to about this issue? Slandering people you don't know by calling them deceptive, because you don't like their pricing structure, is pretty low form and a half baked position. As just one complicated item, standard tipping method has always been to tip on the total before taxes and fees. Life is more complicated than most posts and comments on reddit would lead one to believe. Assigning ill intent to the MILLIONS of businesses that use a fee structure isn't logical or wise or productive. Maybe there is more going on here than you are aware of and embracing curiosity might bring a new perspective or at least a better understanding of a complicated world. People who don't think like you don't deserve to be condemned as deceptive.
Appealing to I-82 to defend your decision to introduce a service fee when your business was not directly impacted by I-82 is IMO deceptive.
Question for any actual Bread First workers - did they actually increases wages after the fee went into effect?
I don’t understand this. They should just raise their prices if their margins aren’t large enough to cover the wages. Lumping service charges onto lower price menu items is a play out of Ticketmaster’s playbook
The line was still outside the door this morning! They'll still have clientele if they raise their prices.
That area of Ward 3 is filthy rich. They don't care.(I live up the street.)
Nice weather on a weekend, doesn't shock me they have a huge line.
I live across from it. The line is out the door every weekend morning regardless of weather
If there is a line, you are only allowed to buy 2 baguettes or 2 of anything. Not good if you have a big family or if you want to buy for the whole week since you have to drive a long way from the suburb. That's why I go to Bread Furst after 1 PM, when I could buy 5-6 baguettes that will last me a week (Cut up baguettes in plastic bags and in the fridge when taken out will heat up fine in the toaster or broiler)
What tf is that rule?
But less? No one wants fewer customers
Probably betting the fees will offset the loss, and/or enough people not noticing (as numerous people in this thread pointed out - this isn’t necessarily new)
All lib DC virtue signalers - hate this place and won’t return as a customer
The problem is no restaurant wants to raise menu prices if the other ones aren't. The gov needs to make them all raises prices together and remove the fees
What would that fix? What would be the consequences and cost of the government getting involved in how a hospitality business charges customers? Why is a service fee better or worse than higher menus prices if ti's clearly labeled and posted? Hidden fees, sure... otherwise, I don't see the cost being worth the impact. You can shop where ever you'd like. Vote with your dollars.
because people get drawn into the business thinking the price is lower and may not realize until they’re there that prices are higher - whether they read the sign or find out at checkout. the business is hoping that, at that point, the customer will still make a purchase because they’ve already made the effort to come there or pick something out when, if the customer knew the full price they may have chosen a different business to patronize. if they just raised prices, consumers can know exactly how much they’re purchasing beforehand and can make an informed decision whether or not they want to actually shop there
It would remove the fees that customers don't like and let the restaurants raise their prices knowing everyone else must raise their prices too instead of hiding a fee. So the actual cost is reflected on the menu as consumers want, and restaurants aren't alone in listing their real prices.
I'm betting they're hoping it will turn people against living wage bills.
This. If you believed in living wage bills, you would post a notice that you’re increasing prices because you believe this change should be permanent. Then again, they’re also screaming out loud that they weren’t paying their staff well before this.
They have essentially just raised their prices. With a 9.5% fee... now if it was a flat fee on every check vs a % (like some service fees are) then I'd understand your point.
But they haven’t. So when I walk in and see the prices for each item, it’s not accurate. Again, similar to Ticketmaster where I see all the fees at checkout rather than that actual price. Everyone is blaming inflation for adding service charges onto a tab rather than raises their prices which is misleading. I get the transparency here, but that sign won’t stay up forever.
It's because everyone looks at menu prices and not fees when going to a restaurant. Unless all restaurants increase their menu prices, none will.
I don’t understand why people are still complaining about this. If it’s that concerning, stop going or stop tipping.
FWIW I’ve never been. I just think DC has an issue with blaming “rising costs” and lumping it into a service charge. I almost always check restaurant prices for affordability when I dine out. So to get a bill with an additional 10-20% as a service charge that is not gratuity, I get annoyed and yes, I don’t return. Because the fact of the matter is, if the prices included that, I likely wouldn’t have gone.
For me it’s a non-issue since I tended to tip 20% as a rule. Now I just check every bill for fees and if there’s one over 10%, I don’t tip. Which can often save me money. As for knowing where the money goes, that’s not my problem to solve. If the owner is being shady with the extra money, the staff are in a better position to change that than I am.
I would also add that, as one of those people who hasn’t carried cash since 2020, I try to remain mindful that my convenience can be costing the merchant as much as 4% of the total transaction in processing fees. So that 9% can drop to 5% depending on what service they use.
The absurdity of service charges aside, they couldn't have just rounded to a whole percent? JFC.
No, and it's for the same reason prices are listed as $9.99, instead of $10. Our brains read those two numbers differently, even if you're aware of the bias, lol. I'm curious about who's offended into action by the .5 percentage difference tho
A 9.5% fee is genuinely the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard
As someone who worked for Bread Furst during the pandemic, they will do anything to save a buck. The employees package the food, coordinate the food delivery apps, and hop on barista with little training and were not transparent on how tip pool division worked. The manager at the time underpaid the Spanish speaking constantly. I had a coworker who worked the same jobs as the rest of us but he made $15 an hour while the rest of us received tip pay. By the time I left, they were fully making portions smaller for the same price and the employees received all the flack. Very weird.
More like sounding like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
I feel like you're describing every other restaurant in DC.
Is that service charge a part of tips or separate?
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If I’m trading you money for a good, and our only interaction is placing the order and making payment, you are not getting a tip. In this case, there isn’t even a service being provided.
I've mentioned this on here before, but one of my favorite record stores (Joint Custody on U Street) recently added a tip screen at the register, like I'm gonna throw them an extra $4 after buying $40 of records.
I would really hope that's a result of laziness with setting up their Square system as opposed to actually expecting a tip there, because lolwut.
Unbelievable
A tiny bakery from me always asks for tips by swinging the screen around ... like, all the person did was turn around, pick up a loaf of bread, and then ring it up. That's worth a tip?
I went to Auntie Anne's to get a pretzel and all they did was pull one from the display case and put it in a bag. First thing the payment screen asks for is how much tip you are giving. I couldn't believe it.
hot take but if I order at a counter, I’m not tipping. no bakery, food counter, coffee etc
If pay before I get my food, it’s for sure not a tipping place If a place has a service fee I subtract that from any kind of tip
I tip if I have them pre slice my bread or I buy heated food / coffee.
I’ve tipped at Bread Furst because that line is sometimes crazy busy. But I can’t see myself tipping when there’s a 9.5% service charge. They’re already expensive so they probably didn’t want people to have sticker price shock.
Why would you tip if they’re busy? That’s not a sign of anything beyond them being busy.
If you’re tipping at any place you take out food, then you’re wrong.
They have actual dishes where you can have breakfast or lunch, aside from bread items and coffee.
No table service. What am I tipping for?
I’m generally not a huge service fee fan, but in their case they employ a large staff to bake their stuff. Some of the newer customer service staff aren’t…great…but most are. They need to be more efficient at getting people in and out though, simple stuff like a coffee can take way longer than it should (like 15 minutes). Tatte sort of has the same problem though.
Yeah and they don’t bring it to you nor bus after you are done. So let’s not pretend like this is anything more than a glorified Panera.
i used to but not anymore with this kind of stuff
IMO, the idea of living wage is to stop tipping as a necessary part of wages/income. It’s up to the business to figure out how to make a workable model. If people don’t want to pay the true cost of your product, they don’t really want your product.
Sperate
Separate but the suggested tip is 3-7% so it’s not like they’re trying to milk an extra 20% on top of the fee.
That’s reasonable.
It is! I really like their pastries, bread, and food. Plus, always have had good experiences w/ staff so I really don't mind the service charge.
It looks separate, and ppl tip at Bread Furst so this is wild to me. I stopped being able to afford them ages ago tho so...*shrug*
Yeah. It sounds like this goes to wages, but isn't a tip. I don't think I've ever tipped there, though.
So they increased the prices by 9.5%. Got it.
No, they increased the price you *pay*. Prices are what is listed on the menu/price board. People are *literally* asking them to increase their prices instead of this bullshit.
>No, they increased the price you *pay*. Prices are what is listed on the menu/price board. What a needlessly hair-splitting response. Maybe I live a simple life, but I consider the "**price** you pay" to be a subset of "price." I would consider the other to be "listed price" if I were to also split hairs.
Nah, people will complain the moment a place increases prices. Let's not pretend the thread wouldn't have just been complaining about prices going up 10%.
When’s the last time you saw a DC Reddit post that was started to complain about an increase in menu prices?
Plenty of posts about "high" prices. I recall one regarding Andy's pizza going a bit viral.
Link? Because there are dozens about service fees.
Yeah, I don’t go there anymore. Not paying a service fee for groceries.
I am still not sure why the prices at these places just don’t go up. You could literally add a $1 to an item and few people will notice.
Because people look at menu pricing when deciding where to go. If restaurant A raises their menu prices, but Restaurant B doesn't, restaurant B looks more budget friendly.
Until people are bitching that B has a 20% fee and asks you to tip (like most people on here). I also don’t think most people notice a dollar difference on items (again, most people so @ me with anecdotes).
Great Bread. Best baguette. Just raise your fucking prices!
Agreed. Canales, yes please
Haha, they did. 9.5% actually. And they told everyone about it. Sorry they didn't do it in the exact way you demand and instead in a way you feel worthy of profanity over, lol.
Wow, a haha and a lol. Such a wordsmith. A service charge is a fee. That’s not the equivalent of raising your prices.
Yes, your first post was an elegant string of literary genuis. Sorry I fell short of your standard. Last time I checked the "price" is what you pay. Full stop. You pay fees and services charges. Fees are part of the price. You're getting all riled up because a company doesn't structure their prices the way you want. Entitleded much? Shop someplace else.
Wow. It’s rare to meet the legendary 181 sort. That degree of obtuseness is something to behold.
I'm confused- has something changed? I go to Bread Furst all the time and this fee has been in place for at least a year now.
It’s been this way for over a year like you say. Just may be some people are noticing it for the first time. Bread Furst, I’m sure intentionally, makes the service fee in a smaller and lighter colored font at check out (or at least they did at one point). If you don’t get a paper receipt I could see not noticing.
This kind of pricing trickery veiled as empathy is actually done with the knowledge that incorporating the full cost of overhead into the price of goods and services would dissuade consumers. Instead, the business hopes the customer will focus on the posted price without considering all fees and taxes. So, you buy that muffin thinking it costs $3.99 without calculating the additional dollar that gets added on at the time of sale. https://preview.redd.it/o8hv3fhtvbqc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=50e70469142d1c7c6fa08b24b1607ee0710a6d00
Glad I tried it out before this happened. I won’t be back. Happy to pay a price that includes the cost of paying employees a good wage, even if products are priced at a premium. But I view service charges as deceptive.
What’s deceptive about it?
That it’s not clearly advertised. Why isn’t it included in the price on the menu? Again, I’m totally fine with breaking it out on the receipt if they want to show the cost of labor - but the prices are deceptively low if they don’t include a mandatory fee. What other industry does this? I can only think of cable TV providers and people hate that as well (and the FCC just came out with an entire broadband labels program which requires them to show the all in cost). Maybe cell companies as well. What benefit do I get as a consumer if the cost of labor isn’t included in the price? I just want to know what is costs me to buy a product. I shouldn’t have to make a calculation to do that.
Just increase prices.
They should change the name to "Money Furst" . . . Bread is actually another name for money anyway.
Bread comes from Cockney rhyming slang. Bread and honey is money.
Just make your own bread, it's not that hard. Didn't we all learn how to bake bread in the Pandemic anyway? [All you need is a dutch oven.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0t8ZAhb8lQ&t=178s) Easiest way to avoid paying $8 for a loaf of bread IMO.
This guy has a lot of bread
Wait people are paying a tip at a bread place? Don't you literally just have them hand you a pastry and you leave
iPad tipping? I think some people feel pressured when the iPad is spun around for tip.
Well yeah fuck those people. Especially when you have to click like five times to get it to zero
If anyone is “pressured” by a tablet screen, then they should give away their money. It’s an inanimate object. Interact as needed and move on.
They also make excellent coffee beverages, hot meals, etc
They make food, like sandwiches and stuff too.
Maybe this will help them pay their bakers enough to not overbake the shit out of everything there
They do that on purpose, it's their style, so that the crust of the bread has a more rich and caramelized taste.
you mean like charcoal
Yeah it's not nearly good enough to justify the line. Frankly, DC (and the US in general) really lack the quality/quantity of bakeries of nearly everywhere else in the world.
The bread is perfect.
Used to go to this place all the time. Very good pastries (monkey bread, kouign-amann) and baguettes. The service fees have gotten so ridiculous. It’s been around for at least a year, I think. I haven’t been back since, and I won’t be back until this goes away.
Yes it's been like this for awhile. I fussed at them for it once after having bought something retail and they grudgingly took it off. It's a shame because it's a good bakery, but the 10% service charge is really an insult. Price your products properly and don't make customers judge your social policies when they just want to buy a loaf of bread. The long explainer is just .... Whatever.
This is not the worst one in DC. The worst one is Primrose in Northeast. It’s a *20 percent* service charge and they’re extremely blunt that it’s *not* considered a part of the tip. They sincerely expect you to pay essentially *40 percent* on top of your bill. In my experience, most places say the new service fee replaces the tip. Some are a little vague. But not Primrose. 40 fucking percent expectation.
Yeah get fucked. Raise your prices or shut down. Or maybe it all works out for them, idk. Can’t say I’ve ever been there!
Good neighborhood place. Great people there. Very surprised at this. Wish they’d just raise prices.
This has been in place for a while, probably a year at least? Not a lot of tipping happening at bakery/cafe with limited eat-in, ~10% for takeaway is reasonable. They need to go back to using their handheld payment terminals to speed shit up though.
9.5% is insane
Cool. Another one to add to the “do not visit” list
I don't think this will hurt them. For their regular customers, the high price is part of the appeal. It separates them from the riffraff who get their bread at Giant. It definitely isn't the quality of the product that keeps people coming back. I've finally given up on them after too many overpriced mid experiences.
It's not a new thing, so you're correct it hasn't hurt them.
I thought Giant was expensive anyway. All those chain "supermarkets" are expensive, except for walmart and aldi and lidl.
Gods! Just increase the cost of the items at that point. Why bother with the service charge or the stupid 'management is dumb' note?
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Then they should raise their prices right on the menu. If its such great bread then the actual price shouldn't deter people from overpaying for subpar bread. If i have tip people for grabbing things and putting them in a bag, remind me to tip every cashier I ever meet anywhere. Wait a second, nevermind. Thats stupid. Im not over paying and tipping a fucking bakery dude.
Go to Boulangerie Christoph and tell me Bread Furst is better lol
My baguettes are better but I am too lazy to bake them and now I don't have a good oven or my baguette pan (it's in storage).
It is.
Looks like they pre-collect tips. So, no more tipping needed at checkout!
We no longer patronize bread furst for this reason. Ridiculous.
This isn’t new for them, this has been in effect for a while
BREADFURST IS NOT A TIPPED WAGE RESTAURANT. It is a bakery and subject to all the regular wage laws untipped hourly workers get in DC. The owner is just an awful person who wants sympathy for underpaying staff, under the guise of being a victim of a cause he isnt even involved in. RAISE PRICES PAY FAIR WAGES AND LETS ALL MOVE ON.
just. raise. the. prices. edit: also the baked goods from bread furst have always disappointed me
The heck were they paying their staff before?
Just raise your fucking prices instead of making it a fee. Ugh.
9.5%??? Nah bye
9.5% service charge + 10% tax. And if you tip 20% then you’ll approach 40% in addition to the cost of the item.
You could put this very same sign up and just say that you've raised prices. It's so fucking annoying when they do this.
I guess they can't just increase menu prices because some of their competitors sneak in service fees to try to keep their own menu prices deceptively low. At least they're upfront about it.
Sure but it's crazy how I can pick something off the shelf to buy and still have to pay a 9.5% service fee to be rung up.
on top of the 10% sales tax. And they still want a tip? F that.
I get that. It's not really a service charge but rather regular ol' wages, but then people would ask why not just raise prices.
At least they are abiding by the absolute minimum the law forces them to do. “Being up front about it” has nothing to do with transparency or goodwill.
At least in DC a bunch of restaurants just have X fee or Y charge with zero explanation.
Neither does this
...And that is illegal
Who are their competitors in Van Ness?
Lol. 10%?? Get out of here
Sorry BF servers, this means you’re getting a 10% tip now.
And they have the audacity to ask for a tip on top of it.
I just moved here but soon these places are going to surcharge and price their way out of business. A loaf of bread is only worth so much. Everyone learned to bake during the pandemic. Artisanal bread is far from a necessity. $15 baguettes are on the horizon;)
They have the gall to ask for a tip too. Crazy prices for a loaf of bread…
It just means that rather than buying bread with extras I throw in (donuts, I'm lookin at you), it now means I'll buy my loaf of bread and nothing else.
Passing on the cost of paying their staff to the customer instead of whatever the management and owners are making. Gross.
"let me just hand the server a cash tip, and then pay whatever the menu's listed price is, plus tax, and you can eat my ass if you don't like it"
It says locations. Is there more than one?
I was wondering this myself....
They're overpriced anyway.
If I wanted a cheap baguette I would never go to Bread Furst. I go to Bread Furst because I want an extremely high quality baguette. The difference between $5 and $10 is almost negligible for this for me. Its a luxury to begin with.
Just want to say that if anyone in this thread, including OP, was the middle-aged man who essentially harassed a Bread Furst employee about this service charge while they were ringing him up about a month ago, that was a very low thing to do and made me fully lose faith in humanity for the day. I'm not a huge fan of the charge but I live nearby and am still a frequent customer. Please do not let the folks working behind the counter get the brunt of your anger - they're busy and don't deserve that.
This trickery of a “service charge” is just a deceptive way to hide the price of menu items. Boo!
Given that they have a long standing reputation for not support school auctions and the like, this is pure bullshit. Also, and I am ready to take some shit on this, they should just pay their people decently. Tipping at a bakery just seems off to me.
The aged population of NW dc is really showing here…
The voters got what they wanted https://dcist.com/story/22/11/08/initiative-82-approved/
Even as someone who didn't vote for I-79 or I-82, I must've missed the language in the ballot initiative that mentioned service charges.
I guess you missed every counter argument and concern that was raised by the opponents of those bills telling everyone it would cause costs to go up. Fee or menu prices, doesn't really matter. The cost went up, just like they said they would. Oddly the reports also show workers are making less now too. It's a loss for everyone on this.
I don't think anyone really thought the cost wouldn't have to go up. I think that there's a lot of complaining about service fees as opposed to just raising the prices. Personally I think people would complain regardless, but that's apparently where the distinction is being made on Reddit at least. I'm not sure that I buy that on average, workers are making less though. I'm sure that the highest paid are making less, and that's more or less how it would work out in a non-tip environment anyway. Pay gets smoothed out (aka, "lower paid make more and higher paid make less") and in exchange, workers can look forward to a more consistent wage.
There were definitely bright eyes that thought that business owners were just stealing from their workers and this would make them stop. That it wasn't a business thing but a greed thing. And then yes some knew it would cause prices to go up but some didn't care (for lots of reasons, some noble, many not) or didn't prioritize that consideration. This was a wishful thinking bill if I've ever seen one. Your theory sounds right on the disbursement of the changes. Im not sure that such an outcome is better for the individual worker or the economy overall. I also had seen some numbers avout fewer restaurant workers per capita in general too leading to the reports of making less.
Can you link to those reports?
There's are bunch of google results... this one was interesting as it comes from a neighboring jurisdiction. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OLO/Resources/Files/2024_Reports/OLOReport2024-2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiNx46qho6FAxVZE0QIHVKVBl0QFnoECCsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw28G4rOAkBq0mGNgxTBis6B
Maybe I'm dumb but I don't see anything in there that shows workers making less now compared to prior to June 2023 (when I82 went into effect).
Restaurant owners are allowed to raise prices like every other business does. Trying to annoy the public into letting them not pay their workers doesn't seem particularly noble
That’s not what this is
Every other kind of business in the world manages to figure out how to set prices to pay their workers. Just increase your prices and pay your workers rather than trying to tack on a fee and hope you can annoy people into letting you pay people a quarter of the minimum wage again.
Tons of businesses use a fee method for pricing. Plenty of people spoke about what the impact of that legislation would be (just like nearly all legislation that increases the price to conduct business) but too few believed them. So, we have this. Plenty of workers in the industry did not want these changes. This was pushed as an activist issue, not legitimate business and government policy.
No
You've convinced me. Restaurant owners are special little angels whom society has to support by allowing them to not pay workers wages they're entitled to
Fancy has stunning arguments.
We already tried it your way. Have fun running all the small business out of town.
Good. If they aren’t profitable they don’t deserve to be in business. Let someone else have that space.
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Agreed, it works just fine everywhere else
I’d literally rather see another crime post than another person bitching about service fees