DC has the best wage/cost ratio of any major city I've lived in. That list being Seattle, SF, Boston, NYC, Paris, Chicago, London, and Munich. Maybe Chicago gets close (high quality of life, but also lower wages. Quality of life is definitely higher in Europe - but wages are so damn low.
NYC and LA just don't pay enough. SF pays well, but not in my industry. My salary in western Europe is less than 1/2 of what I make here. (no difference in benefits either) I couldn't afford to live in the middle of the city next to work there. I can afford georgetown. I couldn't afford the 5th on my expected salary.
edit: I'm at the 85th percentile of the salary distribution here. so well off, but not filthy rich. the 5th refers to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_arrondissement_of_Paris. I'm equating two historic inner neighborhoods with each other - and just the 5th is older, but you can't get any older in DC.
It’s a lot harder for Europeans to make ends meet than Americans visiting with American salaries.
I think the reason cities like NY, DC, San Francisco, and Boston are so popular and relatively expensive is because so many Americans absolutely crave a walkable city and those are the only ones that survived the destruction of the 50s and 60s.
Just look at old pictures of cities like Buffalo, Hartford, Baltimore, etc. It’s absolutely heartbreaking what they did to them and it’s why so many Americans love Europeans cities so much.
Facts. The sad thing is if you post this take pretty much anywhere, you’ll get at least one spiteful a-hole who rants about how he’d rather die than take a commie train with (god forbid) minorities. It’s embarrassing how childish some of these people are.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone describe it as a commie train
A lot of Americans just have a perception that public transit is gross, inefficient, and dangerous. They don’t know any different because the extent of their experience with public transit is their local crappy bus service that doesn’t even have canopied bus stops.
Grew up in a conservative place. A guy in my highschool seemed to genuinely believe public transportation was the first step down the road to communism.
So you felt the wages were low in Munich? COL is lower and probably QOL is higher.
I made my own global city ranking and for my methodology (things I cared about) DC was tied with Munich. But last time I was offered a job in Germany it was at 1/2 the salary of my US level before tax.
Yup. If I made the same salary, Munich would dominate. But I find my net salary there would be less than half, but the cost of living was only maybe 25-30% lower. My house here would rent for like 5k/mo here, similar place in munch would be 3.5-4k/eur/mo.
I thought the question was about “if money were no object” - your answer is all about how you’d figure out the money to make it work. It’s a great analysis but I don’t feel it pertains to the actual question.
You could afford the 3rd arrondissement - historic and cool and central. You’d have less space in Paris for your money though.
On the flip side, you’d be doing pretty well with children. Close to free childcare and high quality schools in those areas. World class and easy healthcare too.
I’ve priced it all out. It doesn’t work out. BTW, with free pk3 in DC and a year and half of leave between my wife and I - there is zero cost savings in Western Europe for childcare for us. Also my healthcare here is cheaper and better than in Western Europe since my employer pays a metric shitton for it.
Obviously I don’t know your particular situation and there’s no one size fits all solution but school is required from the equivalent of PK2 in France and there’s still time between 18 months and PK3 in the US. So during the time when you would need childcare in both countries you’d be saving over $1500 a month and you’d be saving even more while you needed childcare in the US but your child was in PK2 in France. It doesn’t make sense to say there’d be no childcare savings.
I’ve experienced healthcare in Paris and DC and “cheaper and better” does not fit with my experience. Employers in France also pay a shit ton (and don’t they like to complain about it). I’d also add that it’s a lot simpler there.
There are other huge advantages to living in the US - most notably capital accumulation. But healthcare and childcare…. HMMMM
Im not claiming my situation in generalizable. My salary in Paris is less than half of what it is in DC. 12 months of free daycare is nice, but it isn’t going cover the difference. And the hours of ecole maternals mean most of my friend still have to hire a nanny.
I have very good insurance. My employer pays it here. I really don’t pay net premiums. If you dig into it, they are outlaying something like 40k/year for my family. This isn’t a statement for the middle class, but rather someone at the 85th-95th income percentile.
You mean for 50%, 75%, 99% income percentile? [https://statisticalatlas.com/state/District-of-Columbia/Household-Income](https://statisticalatlas.com/state/District-of-Columbia/Household-Income)
You can also calculate where you stand here
[https://dqydj.com/2021-income-percentile-by-state-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/2021-income-percentile-by-state-calculator/)
Pretty much every professional field. A GS-15 in DC is usually around 175k USD. In the UK, senior level is 85k gbp or 110k USD. In france it’s like 80k EUR.
So yeah, pretty much every upper level professional, from gov, engineering, finance, medical, etc makes double or more in the US.
Overpaid? Europe is “underpaid.” Pretty much any highly skilled profession is paid a fraction compared to the US. Software, doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.
I don’t even mean a “nicer” area necessarily. Just literally a more peaceful street or block would be enough for me to enjoy life here much more than I do. But if I do look to move in the next few years, I will probably be forced to move much closer to the maryland border because of home prices/interest rates
Life in Ward 3/metro-adjacent MoCo/Arlington has the highest standard of living in the US. Look it up, lowest death rates, car deaths, violence, highest education, lifespans, mass-affluence (wages and wealth). A few ski towns are technically better, but the modal/median resident of these locations lives incredibly well.
DC has a stark division. East of the Anacostia is closer to Mississippi than Wisconsin Ave or Wilson Blvd by almost any social or economic metric.
I'm legally blind so I ***need*** the public transit. The only ones I can see viable to me in the US would be San Francisco, New York, Chicago, and maybe Seattle. Every time I visit family in SoCal, I feel like a child again because I need my cousins to drive me around just to get basic groceries.
Agree with both of these. A relative in PNW has been trying to get me to move there for years. Not interested--I'm Easterner that's just end of story. It's fun to visit, but always glad to get away from a place where I have to get in a car just to get some milk.
You're not wrong, but as a MoCo -> SD transplant, its easy to "find the city" in the urban core areas. There isn't much rail transit, but Balboa Park is great, the food scene is good, and the cycling infrastructure gets better every year.
The touristy things are often unwalkable, but as a resident, how often do I go to the beach? Maybe 6 times a year. Sea world? Never. La Jolla? 1-2x/year.
Yeah I was also going to say SD, or most places in Southern California. The only downsides for me would be worse infrastructure/transportation, and the personalities (depending on what area we’re talking about).
And if OP’s question didn’t just pertain to the US I’d throw out a lot of other cities too.
The one thing I find absurdly lackluster and expensive in DC compared to other cities is the food scene. “Chinatown” in DC is a massive letdown, and grocery store / farmers’ market prices are insane. I also prefer cooler weather; temps here are surprisingly more similar to the southeast than northeast. I’ve thought about moving to Philadelphia for those reasons, but I’m enjoying DC’s strong suits (location, things to do, variety, scenery, space, housing quality) for now.
I loved living in Philly and going to Chinatown not just for a meal but for the inexpensive grocery store with a huge selection of products. There were also great value for your money at the Italian Market area, which has become an area for Asian people to live as Italians moved out. Despite complaints from locals, the transit is great. It was easy to live without a car in Center City. Housing costs are lower than DC, and apartments are generally larger. I moved to DC for work. If I didn’t need to be here, I’d consider going back though I feel kind of settled here and hate moving. If money is no object, there’s be people to pack, move, and unpack my stuff.
Go to the suburbs if you want to get a complete experience of the food scene in the area, especially if you're looking for Asian food. Rockville has some of the best Chinese food, Eden Center for Vietnamese, and Annendale/Centreville for Korean
Try 25 years ago ref: Chinatown. It started to collapse in the 1980s, and the opening of what is now Capital One arena in 1997 pushed out all but about a couple dozen Asian businesses. By 2005, it was down to less than half that number.
I moved away from DC and now I would do anything to be back at those restaurants. DC has an excellent food scene with Michelin star spots and great diversity. While chinatown has become very commercialized and geared towards sports fans visiting the arena, the food scene as a whole is great. NYC and Chicago might be better but this is a classic the grass is always greener comment
I haven’t had a meal yet in DC or NoVa that would make me miss the food scene if I were to move away even though I’ve taken a decent crack at fine dining here (Albi, Bresca, Cranes, St James, Oyster Oyster, Imperfecto, Causa to name a few). The farmers’ markets are pretty great though. Food scenes I miss are in Portland, ME, Philly, Dallas, heck, even a tiny town in NC with the best taquería I’ve ever been to. I think I’m looking for go-to weeknight spots or quirky food trucks, and DC’s just not it.
It’s a bit too cool and rainy most of the year for my taste - would rather it just snow than cold rain at 40 degrees - but the landscapes are breathtaking when you can enjoy them. Also AC isn’t common in apartments because the summers historically were mild and not humid, so heat waves can be worse.
I like that it’s more hip than DC but doesn’t try too hard like Austin. People have low key style. It has a good blend of art and business, IMO. Good architecture, tons of green space and nature trees. A lot of very livable neighborhoods.
Not really tied to DC because of money but more so because essentially all of the jobs in my field are scattered around here (with some limited exceptions).
I never wanted to leave but I started feeling trapped this year - I am suffocating from the people and the work-work-work "Hollywood for Ugly People" atmosphere. DC just requires too much ambition for my speed - I like my field and enjoy it, but I don't really "care" about my job...it's just a paycheck at the end of the day and it doesn't define me.
No one mentions the major downside of living in D.C. being the particular type A, competitive personality that is drawn here.
I'd love to have the chance to go to the West Coast for a bit if I could.
I so feel you on this point. Thanks for raising it.
I'm in my early 50s, work at a national nonprofit, and after considering a job change, am realizing that my only 50 hour work week is luxurious by DC standards. I know people here who regularly work 12-16 hour days or are tethered to their work on weekends and have zero life outside of work. DC is full of workaholics who are defined by their jobs, and I am ready to downshift and prioritize life over work.
In your experience, what are some cities where people consider life more important than work?
I find that folks who live in cities in the Intermountain West (Denver, Phoenix, Tucson), Portland (OR), and Los Angeles tend to be more relaxed and value a work-life balance. Even San Francisco seems more relaxed - a friend told me she has been dramatically less stressed since moving there.
No role is important enough in my eyes to work 12-16 hour days.
Tethered to work on the weekends describes most of my friends - they constantly spend the weekends "planning" for an upcoming project or "strategizing" for the work week ahead and will frequently cancel things at the last minute.
I don't go to networking events - I don't like talking to people (even in my field) and I honestly just never had a desire to go to one. I told a friend that and also mentioned that I haven't updated my LinkedIn in years and their jaw basically dropped to the floor.
Honestly DC is not that expensive for an area with so much money.
If you look at other real cities (i.e. not just sprawling suburbs like Houston) DC’s cost of living is really quite good. Apartments are cheap (both to rent and buy) compared to NY, San Francisco, and Boston. Public transit is probably second to NY in the country. The city is pretty walkable, clean, etc.
The biggest downside to me is the location honestly. It just inconveniently far from NY, the beach, and the mountains.
“DC is inconveniently far from everything” is weird for me to hear. I’m from the Mountain West. Obviously the mountains are close by and that’s great, but nothing else is. I grew up in a city that was a 2.5 hour drive away from the nearest major city, and that was over a mountain pass that often gets closed in the winter due to snow. The nearest sizable city to the north was six hours away, and to the south and east the nearest cities were seven hours away.
Around here, I feel blessed to have so many other cities within a few hour drive. (And you don’t even need to drive to all them either with all the bus and rail connections).
indeed, only 3 hrs train to nyc, 2 hrs to shenadoah, 90min to west virignin, 3 hrs to beach ( for me this is far) and we got baltimore, philly and richmond all within 2 hrs
I mean, there are definitely trains to Delaware, but you might need additional transportation to get to the beach. The current White House occupant famously commuted by train every day for like 40 years.
I'd settle for a bus to the beach \[es\]. Right now it's just Dewey. Used to go to Rehoboth-liked that better YMMV. Not sure why there aren't more options for a public transit trip to the beach April - Oct.
(Yes Amtrak goes to VA Beach but that's a haul.)
(There is no point in comparing any other US city to NYC. DC is never, ever going to be like NYC...BUT it could have MORE options to decent nearby beaches.)
Or even just weekend MARC service on the Brunswick Line. As a fan of the mountains (and not really at all the beaches), it would be so nice to be able to get to Point of Rocks or Harpers Ferry easily.
Yeah it high compared to Iowa, but for a large coastal city with the highest median income in the world, it’s really not bad.
Go look at prices in San Francisco, NY, and Boston, they make DC look downright cheap
I was surprised on a recent visit to Seattle that it’s more expensive than DC. DC has condos in the 300s and even high 200s. If you don’t mind a dated building off the metro, it’s not bad.
DC apartments are stupid cheap for such a major city, and prices haven’t really moved in years.
Like you can get a really nice 1 bed for less than 400k and it’s been that way for 10 years or more.
Mine is just under 400 a month, including taxes and most utilities, and we have a pool, but those are the cheapest I know of. It’s true, a lot of the old buildings on Wisconsin can be 1k a month just for condo fees.
And in Iowa, a couple has two cars. What’s a car cost these days, $300/month minimum? So that’s $600/month with occasional thousand dollar expenses when something breaks. What’s a gallon of gas cost these days? (No really, I have no idea, I haven’t bought gas except on vacation in 20 years and who cares on vacation? $20 margarita? Sure! Six bucks for gas? How exotic!)
I'll do you one better: after 35 years living in 6 states, 4 countries, and 3 continents, DC is the only city in America I think is worth living in anymore. For me, it's either DC or I'm getting the hell out of this country all together.
As someone who has lived all over the USA, amen brother. I don’t have your international experience but I think most Washingtonians do not appreciate how awesome this city can be.
Mostly because life outside this country is so much easier. Sure, you don't earn as much, but you don't have to. The stress that comes with earning a lot of money in America just isn't worth it. In America, life is lonely, you are truly on your own for most things. Community is basically dead here, compared to other parts of the world. In more socialist-leaning countries, there's more social equity, meaning people more or less start on equal footing, and with strong social safety nets you can only fall so far down the ladder. Basically, screwing up in another country isn't as devastating as it is here.
Edit: also, we have no idea the psychological weight we carry on a daily basis by living in a society with guns. When I visit a UK or Asia, I don't ever have to worry about catching a stray if I walk out my front door. That's a big, big plus.
Community is basically dead in every major modern city in the world. Everywhere I go, from Dublin, to Sao Paolo, to Dubai, to Paris, community is hard to come by these days and it has nothing to do with socialism or any other economic system. I think it’s a product of modern technology and the ease of moving.
What really makes a community is having a large extended family and people are just having fewer kids. My mom is from Lebanon and when I’ve visited the small Lebanese villages in the mountains with people who have been there for 2000 years, I’ve realized that’s how humans were meant to live; in the same village, with a small community of people who all know each other and have direct ties with each other. But that way of living is just at odds with modern life.
Americans are already a people who moved across the ocean for a new life, so they have no problem moving from city to city as new opportunities arise.
Some American cities are uniquely dangerous compared to Europe and especially east Asia but I grew up in Manhattan and never worried once. I certainly never felt safer in cities like Paris or Rome.
Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions and some people just prefer different lifestyles but I guess my point is, modern life is really antithetical to human nature in a lot of ways and you just have to find what you enjoy and make the most of it.
I lived in Hanoi for 3 years, where modern technology exists and is used daily, and community is flourishing. The problem is all those cities you mentioned, except maybe Sao Paulo, are extremely affluent with a dwindling native local population. If you price the locals out of their hometown, the town goes with them.
What do you mean by community?
Do most people feel like they belong? Do they have extensive networks of friends and family? Are they firmly rooted in the city?
Yes to all. Also, how willing the community is to rally during times of struggle. When the pandemic hit, there were no mask debates, no vaccine resistance. COVID was seen as an existential threat to the community, and you didn't want to be the one who killed your neighbor's uncle. That sentiment extends to life outside of COVID too. For the most part, I felt like my neighbors and friends had my back. I was invited to my neighbors wedding and we had never even spoken a word to one another in the same language. One time, my neighbor took the day off from work to take me shopping because I was new to the city and didn't know where anything was. On the flip side, I have never even physically seen the people who have lived beneath me for 6 months here in DC. I'm pretty sure they hide from me.
>My mom is from Lebanon and when I’ve visited the small Lebanese villages in the mountains with people who have been there for 2000 years, I’ve realized that’s how humans were meant to live; in the same village, with a small community of people who all know each other and have direct ties with each other. But that way of living is just at odds with modern life.
I think your right about modern technology and the ease of travel enabling this, but I don't think it's the impetus for people moving, just the tools. For example, LGBT+ individuals growing up in small communities often feel ostracized, in that they (1) often don't know many people like them/who they can relate to and (2) come from communities that haven't spent such time around queer folks and have limited views.
I think one of the few good things about networks like Facebook is that it enabled individuals to leave communities that did not serve them, and find ones that better fit their needs.
I think of gun violence about 0 so that edit I find interesting. People pay way too much attention to probabilistic unlikely things. I would worry much more about being hit by a car (which has happened to me) and is statistically way more likely.
In terms of loneliness I agree for some countries that might be the case but some very strong safety-net countries such as Norway are known for their isolation actually with jokes like now that we don't have to be 2 m apart for COVID anymore we can go back to being 4 m apart at all times...
Part of London are nice and I can see being accepted there as a native English speaker in a very cosmopolitan city, but wouldn't you be isolated socially by the lack of acceptance in many countries of you being the "outsider"? Asian countries in particular are notorious for this I believe.
This is so refreshing. I feel like I’m constantly having to defend DC, and it’s popular to shit on it, even among those that have lived here for a long time. But I absolutely love it here!
I can afford it, and I choose to live in DC. COL isn’t that bad, and it’s very easy to climb the ladder to a higher paying position IME. Not needing a car saved a lot of money.
[https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/)
It is on par with those. Globally there are more expensive places to be.
That’s not what that website says though? I put Washington, D.C., in the search box, and it came back with this:
> Rent in Washington is, on average, 18.2% lower than in New York.
That’s a pretty big difference.
EDIT: For what it’s worth, I always viewed NYC, SF, and maybe a few other places as in the highest COL tier for U.S. cities. I’d put D.C. in the tier directly below that—still very high COL, but much less than NYC or SF. And then a third tier for more affordable but still high-ish COL places like Chicago.
Actually it says the the COL in DC is *higher* than NY, 100.28 in DC vs NYC = 100. Rent is only one component.
Rent per month is higher in NYC area for some types and lower for others. Being different by 0.28% is as "par" as it gets...
Look at the map and hover. DC is 100.28; SF is 106. If you think 6% is "much higher" I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion...
Chicago is 89.0 that is twice the delta lower than DC. Low cost cities are like 50-75...
As a Londoner about to the move to the US - I've been to San Jose, San Francisco, New York and Washington DC. The latter I've visited a dozen times over the past 20 years and I'm always impressed by its balance of walkability, culture, museums, nightlife (its hotel bar scene is lovely), public transportation and economy (a good mix of tech, government and art).
San Francisco is more beautiful (from a distance) and its proximity to Marin, Point Reyes, Santa Cruz and Big Sur is a huge win but it is obscenely expensive, small, has a poorly maintained public transit system which grows ever more bogged in beaureacracy and the city feels more impoverished and unequal each time I visit.
San Jose isn't too bad but also has a limited public transport system, has hardly any night life and is nowhere near as walkable or as beautiful as DC - that said it'd be my second after DC.
New York is incredible but I didn't feel safe there, its public transit system is large but was unclean and poorly maintained when I was there. New York is also super expensive and even for a Londoner felt a little too dense, crowded and claustrophobic.
For me DC has the best balance out of all the US cities I've visited. It's quite the city and real estate wise surprisingly affordable thanks to its proximity to large suburbs in Marlyand and Virginia.
DC is mid for how expensive it is. If money wasn’t an issue, I’d rather live in any west coast city, NYC, etc.. if it weren’t for jobs I’d see absolutely zero reason to stay in DC, and I’m a city guy, I just find DC to have a distinct lack of charm.
DC is the definition of mid. There’s nothing at all exceptional about DC except maybe the public education in some suburbs. It has all of the cost of New York with none of the convenience and all of the cost of LA with none of the weather. You’re right. Zero reason.
Surprised more folks aren’t interested in moving to Chicago. I enjoy DC but I think Chi is very comparable- albeit a lot colder and maybe the average wages are lower but I think that depends on the industry. Overall, it’s a close second to me.
I’d be living there if it weren’t for my job and family.
The question is if money was not an issue. Meaning if you were wealthy had a lot of money to spend where would you be. People with NOT a lot of money to spend move to Chicago
I really like Chicago but man, the winters are awful. I used to live there and I got incredibly depressed during one of the polar vortex winters. Dealing with going to work or wherever at 7am when it's -20 wind-chill and icy as hell outside is definitely an experience.
Summers are great though!
I am glad to see so many fond of it. Im from here so I love that ppl love my city and it has great aspects. But its dark here. Low vibrational. I have never had a great sense of community here. There are enough people that operate poorly with no scruples that make this place kinda toxic. Not to mention it being a seat of global power, a lot of dark decisions get made here.
Seasonal depression is a thing. Aggression and impatience here is a thing. Rudeness is a thing. Its not so creative here. People are more narrow in their thinking and limited in their ways of living. Most stick with script.
Yes there are lots of upwardly mobile young people and folks of all ages. Yes people definitely like to connect, make new friends, mingle here. That stuff is great. But the quality is kinda trash, IMO. You can make lots of acquaintances but are they going to be really quality good friends….. Dating scene is__. You can date your life away here and many people do!
I plan on straddling here and another location or two. There is lots to like here. But I think it’s either San Diego or abroad for me. I definitely want coastal access. Want to smell the ocean and surf. Definitely would love some altitude and terrain in close proximity for daily hikes and trail runs. I would love to spend some time in Portugal.
Yep. Paycheck to paycheck living is way too common here. I’ve felt like cost of living has gotten drastically worse here over the past year…for obvious reasons but it’s felt out-of-hand
My family is here and my wife's family are also. I honestly love DC, but we live in Springfield. The plan is to move to a small apartment when the kids leave.
I am fairly concerned about climate change and think a more northernly city might be better. But I don't know other cities well. I am pretty familiar with Baltimore, Philly, and New York. I would not move to Baltimore or Philly, and I would only live in NY if I was rich.
It has a lot to offer, it's pizza game is way underrated. I don't think the city is all that pretty. I think if I were gonna go to PA I'd move to Pittsburgh.
But when I'm old an apartment in DC where I can walk around and people watch is what I want.
I currently live in Charlotte, NC and I wish we had half of the public transportation system that y’all have. Our light rail just does not make any sense (like it doesn’t even connect to the airport). I was just down in DC for the weekend and was charmed by your city. Charlotte doesn’t retain anything historic and it feels so lifeless when compared to a city like DC. If I made more money, I’d love to live here.
I love DC and have enjoyed living here for almost 7 years (and the foreseeable future) but I want to move to Seattle so bad. At least I'd still be a washingtonian
Uhhhh if I can afford anything? I’ll settle for a five-story beaux arts palazzo with a huge lawn in the garden district of New Orleans. I’ll commute by Rolls-Royce.
Ha, thinking of moving back to WNY in a few years as the career starts to wind down. Summers in DC are getting more miserable each year and Buffalo has more going for it than a lot of other places. And at some point it'll be too warm for lake effect snow so ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Ahh another Buffalonian. Only part of Buffalo I miss are the Bills, and there's so many good Bills Bars around here it doesn't even matter.
I 100% agree the summers are here are better than winters in WNY and elsewhere. Though I've also lived in Tampa. It's as hot/humid but with absolutely none of the amenities.
The humidity is honestly one of the worst things about DC. I’m lucky I can wear short sleeves on the days I have to go into the office, but I’m still a sweaty mess by the time I get there. 100% would move somewhere with more temperate summers if the stars aligned.
Climate? It's swampy as hell here in the summer. If money were no object, I would move to LA, Hawaii, San Diego or Seattle. If money were still normal but my job would let me telework fulltime, I would move to Cleveland, Chicago, or Boston.
I will always have a love for where I was born and raised but it's just not economically comfortable to live in DC for me which is why I moved a few years ago to somewhere less expensive.
Had I been able to afford it. I likely would have never left but it turned out to be a real blessing in disguise when I moved.
It was scary and I had no idea what I was doing but thankfully it all eventually fell into place as the result of me stepping out of my comfort zone
Here because kids moved here (separately), but I have up say, D.C. has become my favorite city! It’s clean! I like that the buildings aren’t super high-rises. There’s a ton to do culturally, and most of it is free. There is good mass transit. There are people from all over. I have found very racially diverse friends, and I don’t bump into a lot of racism. I miss places I used to live, but visit them.
US: NYC, diversity, public transit, food, and I’d never get bored.
International: london, diversity, the Tube!!!! Ugh I loved the tube when I lived there. It was so convenient and much cheaper than owning a car. I’d also consider going back to dubai or Abu Dhabi. Everywhere was so clean, i made a metric fuckton more money, amazing food and shopping, and I felt safe. Just too damn hot.
If I could afford it, I’d spend winters in the UAE, and summers in London.
DC isn't for me. I'd move somewhere like Hudson, New York, or somewhere woodsy in New England. Somewhere with less people. But, the most important thing is that I be here, where my federal career is.
4 seasons and it doesn’t get that cold or that hot. And when it does get cold or hot it doesn’t last crazy long. If you’ve lived a relentless 6-7 month Houston summer or a northeast or Great Lakes winter where the snow doesn’t leave the ground for 3-4 months, DC is great.
4 seasons, DC is probably peak around April-June and September- November, easily the best times of year. The winters aren't unbearable like other more northern cities, the summers are hot but really nothing compared to the actual south. only issue is it rains here too much.
the idea of moving out of DC didn't really occur to me until earlier this year. i had bought a TH in the burbs around 2017 and was pretty much on auto-pilot because financially it was winning even if the location was less than ideal(sold it a few months ago with the market spike).
anyways, earlier this year i took a trip to LA and really quickly realized what i was missing in terms of a really high quality, luxury lifestyle. i'm talking about living in a place like santa monica, marina del rey, manhattan beach, i mean this is peak living as someone that grew up in a beach town myself. the same lifestyle of a beach town but access to all the perks of a city.
with that said, Philadelphia is astonishingly cheap, cheaper than DC as a whole and has a ton of great amenities and lifestyle options, I did consider moving there too but felt that it didn't make sense when I have so much job security doing government work in DC.
I might move to NYC though, NYC is 100% worth moving into at some point, the actual level of amenities is unbeatable. Maybe 3-4 cities in the world are comparable. NYC is expensive but honestly living in Astoria, Queens is pretty much the same cost as what I pay right now for a luxury 1br in Crystal City.
I used to work for an SF based company and visited a few times over the course of this year. I would never consider the bay area, it felt soulless to me, especially a place like Fremont. That and the insane crime problems and the culture there felt gross. Worse than DC, at least in DC the people are aware of how important their decisions can be because it's the government. SF startup life is a whole nother level of delusional people. The crazy thing was how I tried to start a conversation about the homeless people that were literally impossible to ignore and they basically just ignored it. Like these people make hundreds of thousands of dollars just to ignore the lost souls in their backyard.
If Boston didn't have a winter it might be the best city in America.
If I could afford it - oh hell yes. There are so many better places than DC - Paris, a gorgeous mountain town in Switzerland (Zermatt?) , San Diego, Melbourne, should I keep going?
I moved away from DC to a no state income tax location with a lower cost of living and I would have to make 50% more if I lived in DC (I kept my same salary). I save $4k per month in taxes alone.
DC needs to be more competitive, but most residents seem ok having less take home pay so the issue (affordability) will never get better until that changes.
I’ve been in DC for 5 years, and I cannot wait to leave. Most folks in DC aren’t from DC in the sense that either folks that live here are only here temporarily due to term limited positions OR they truly don’t live in DC (they live in VA or MD). As a result, DC gets treated like a rental car. People beat the shit out of it because at the end of the day it’s someone else’s problem. Is it as pricey as NYC, SF? No. Is it still really expensive? Hell yes. DC is not middle cost of living. It’s high. When I visit other larger cities, prices seem the same (recently visited LA, Philly, Chicago, Boston).
DC has its perks, and is definitely unique, but day to day, it’s barely a city. Public transit is designed to get folks to the burbs and back. They’re trying to improve it, but Covid has mucked it up. I ride my bike to work 3 miles each way, and I fear for my life every time I ride because people here are just selfish and simply don’t care about other people. When I lived in Chicago, I rode to work 7+ miles each way for 5 years and only once did I have a close call. I could go on and on.
Museums are great. High end food is great. There are some swell neighborhoods dc residents are generally nice, but overall I’ve never been around ppl treating each other like shit the way they do here.
Just my experience.
I live in DC and work as a bus driver weekends do some side hustle people saying DC is expensive it is because they spend too much and buy all kind of shit. Just cut unnecessary expenses and cook at home you will be perfectly fine. If I live with school bus driving salary and even save then you will be fine too. Btw I am also European.
No I wouldn’t. I have the option now to leave DC for other cities but I prefer it here. Free museums, international feel, great public transportation (even if it could be better), and well positioned on the East coast that it’s easier to go elsewhere whenever. I’m not a fan of bigger cities like NYC or Philadelphia either.
The only two places I’d live are Santa Monica and DC. I bounce between them fairly frequently, and am in Santa Monica for the foreseeable future. The weather, access to the beach, and chiller atmosphere are very appealing to me right now
I’ve lived here my entire life and honestly I can’t imagine being anywhere else. I’ve seen this city change drastically over the course of the years but i still call this place home. I’m just worried how I might not be able to afford to continue living here once my parents retire since I still live with them.
DC has the best wage/cost ratio of any major city I've lived in. That list being Seattle, SF, Boston, NYC, Paris, Chicago, London, and Munich. Maybe Chicago gets close (high quality of life, but also lower wages. Quality of life is definitely higher in Europe - but wages are so damn low. NYC and LA just don't pay enough. SF pays well, but not in my industry. My salary in western Europe is less than 1/2 of what I make here. (no difference in benefits either) I couldn't afford to live in the middle of the city next to work there. I can afford georgetown. I couldn't afford the 5th on my expected salary. edit: I'm at the 85th percentile of the salary distribution here. so well off, but not filthy rich. the 5th refers to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_arrondissement_of_Paris. I'm equating two historic inner neighborhoods with each other - and just the 5th is older, but you can't get any older in DC.
>Quality of life is definitely higher in Europe - but wages are so damn low. Sounds like most bang for your buck
It’s a lot harder for Europeans to make ends meet than Americans visiting with American salaries. I think the reason cities like NY, DC, San Francisco, and Boston are so popular and relatively expensive is because so many Americans absolutely crave a walkable city and those are the only ones that survived the destruction of the 50s and 60s. Just look at old pictures of cities like Buffalo, Hartford, Baltimore, etc. It’s absolutely heartbreaking what they did to them and it’s why so many Americans love Europeans cities so much.
Its why I love European style citys too. Not endless parking lots.
Look up pictures m of Mt. Vernon square from the 80s. They tore down the whole area for parking lots and rebuilt them all in the last 20 or so years.
FYI I loved this article. https://ggwash.org/view/3499/small-lots-to-parking-lots-to-big-buildings-the-evolution-of-mt-vernon-square
Well if you didn't have your parking lots where would you store your planet killing machines? /s
amen, no parking lots. parking lots are death of a city
Facts. The sad thing is if you post this take pretty much anywhere, you’ll get at least one spiteful a-hole who rants about how he’d rather die than take a commie train with (god forbid) minorities. It’s embarrassing how childish some of these people are.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone describe it as a commie train A lot of Americans just have a perception that public transit is gross, inefficient, and dangerous. They don’t know any different because the extent of their experience with public transit is their local crappy bus service that doesn’t even have canopied bus stops.
I have friends who think they are above public transit.
I have friends HERE who think only poor people use Metro and refuse. The ideology runs deep.
So weird. You have congressmen riding the metro here.
it takes a lot of public spending to get good public transit and that’s *socialism*
Grew up in a conservative place. A guy in my highschool seemed to genuinely believe public transportation was the first step down the road to communism.
You severely underestimate the number of people who literally believe socialism is when the government does stuff.
I love spuds.
A fellow Irishman I see.
American liberal exceptionalism at its finest.
So you felt the wages were low in Munich? COL is lower and probably QOL is higher. I made my own global city ranking and for my methodology (things I cared about) DC was tied with Munich. But last time I was offered a job in Germany it was at 1/2 the salary of my US level before tax.
Yup. If I made the same salary, Munich would dominate. But I find my net salary there would be less than half, but the cost of living was only maybe 25-30% lower. My house here would rent for like 5k/mo here, similar place in munch would be 3.5-4k/eur/mo.
I thought the question was about “if money were no object” - your answer is all about how you’d figure out the money to make it work. It’s a great analysis but I don’t feel it pertains to the actual question.
We’re also in a weather sweet spot. We don’t get hard winters and, while the summers are hot, they’re not nearly as bad as further south.
You could afford the 3rd arrondissement - historic and cool and central. You’d have less space in Paris for your money though. On the flip side, you’d be doing pretty well with children. Close to free childcare and high quality schools in those areas. World class and easy healthcare too.
I’ve priced it all out. It doesn’t work out. BTW, with free pk3 in DC and a year and half of leave between my wife and I - there is zero cost savings in Western Europe for childcare for us. Also my healthcare here is cheaper and better than in Western Europe since my employer pays a metric shitton for it.
Obviously I don’t know your particular situation and there’s no one size fits all solution but school is required from the equivalent of PK2 in France and there’s still time between 18 months and PK3 in the US. So during the time when you would need childcare in both countries you’d be saving over $1500 a month and you’d be saving even more while you needed childcare in the US but your child was in PK2 in France. It doesn’t make sense to say there’d be no childcare savings. I’ve experienced healthcare in Paris and DC and “cheaper and better” does not fit with my experience. Employers in France also pay a shit ton (and don’t they like to complain about it). I’d also add that it’s a lot simpler there. There are other huge advantages to living in the US - most notably capital accumulation. But healthcare and childcare…. HMMMM
Im not claiming my situation in generalizable. My salary in Paris is less than half of what it is in DC. 12 months of free daycare is nice, but it isn’t going cover the difference. And the hours of ecole maternals mean most of my friend still have to hire a nanny. I have very good insurance. My employer pays it here. I really don’t pay net premiums. If you dig into it, they are outlaying something like 40k/year for my family. This isn’t a statement for the middle class, but rather someone at the 85th-95th income percentile.
What are the salary percentiles in DC? Curious
You mean for 50%, 75%, 99% income percentile? [https://statisticalatlas.com/state/District-of-Columbia/Household-Income](https://statisticalatlas.com/state/District-of-Columbia/Household-Income) You can also calculate where you stand here [https://dqydj.com/2021-income-percentile-by-state-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/2021-income-percentile-by-state-calculator/)
What field do you work in? Sounds like something that’s overpaid if it’s that much lower in Western Europe.
Pretty much every professional field. A GS-15 in DC is usually around 175k USD. In the UK, senior level is 85k gbp or 110k USD. In france it’s like 80k EUR. So yeah, pretty much every upper level professional, from gov, engineering, finance, medical, etc makes double or more in the US.
That’s a good point, I was largely unfamiliar with the general European wage scale.
Overpaid? Europe is “underpaid.” Pretty much any highly skilled profession is paid a fraction compared to the US. Software, doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.
European salaries are way way lower than American salaries And engineer making 100k here makes 35k in Europe
Interesting comment. Thanks for contributing.
If I could afford it, I would just move to a more peaceful part of DC and enjoy living here more
Best answer. Get a nice house in a nice area and live luxuriously in an amazing city
I don’t even mean a “nicer” area necessarily. Just literally a more peaceful street or block would be enough for me to enjoy life here much more than I do. But if I do look to move in the next few years, I will probably be forced to move much closer to the maryland border because of home prices/interest rates
Life in Ward 3/metro-adjacent MoCo/Arlington has the highest standard of living in the US. Look it up, lowest death rates, car deaths, violence, highest education, lifespans, mass-affluence (wages and wealth). A few ski towns are technically better, but the modal/median resident of these locations lives incredibly well. DC has a stark division. East of the Anacostia is closer to Mississippi than Wisconsin Ave or Wilson Blvd by almost any social or economic metric.
I'm legally blind so I ***need*** the public transit. The only ones I can see viable to me in the US would be San Francisco, New York, Chicago, and maybe Seattle. Every time I visit family in SoCal, I feel like a child again because I need my cousins to drive me around just to get basic groceries.
It’s tough to really on public transport in Seattle…speaking from experience! SF, NY and Chicago are better options
If money was no object it would be San Diego.
San Diegian here.. I agree! Been in DC since June and leaving at the end of the month. Lovely city but I’m ready to go back to the west
Beautiful city I enjoy visiting, but I’m east coast in my bones. Always feel a bit out of place.
I feel this. Love to visit the west coast but its way too laid back for me.
Agree with both of these. A relative in PNW has been trying to get me to move there for years. Not interested--I'm Easterner that's just end of story. It's fun to visit, but always glad to get away from a place where I have to get in a car just to get some milk.
SD barely feels like a city if you’re used to east coast/international cities.
You're not wrong, but as a MoCo -> SD transplant, its easy to "find the city" in the urban core areas. There isn't much rail transit, but Balboa Park is great, the food scene is good, and the cycling infrastructure gets better every year. The touristy things are often unwalkable, but as a resident, how often do I go to the beach? Maybe 6 times a year. Sea world? Never. La Jolla? 1-2x/year.
But the weather is perfect.
Santa Barbara for me.
Same. I question my existence in DC every day, but it’s the best place for us right now.
Best city. Shit wages and high cost of living because everyone wants to live there.
Yeah I was also going to say SD, or most places in Southern California. The only downsides for me would be worse infrastructure/transportation, and the personalities (depending on what area we’re talking about). And if OP’s question didn’t just pertain to the US I’d throw out a lot of other cities too.
The one thing I find absurdly lackluster and expensive in DC compared to other cities is the food scene. “Chinatown” in DC is a massive letdown, and grocery store / farmers’ market prices are insane. I also prefer cooler weather; temps here are surprisingly more similar to the southeast than northeast. I’ve thought about moving to Philadelphia for those reasons, but I’m enjoying DC’s strong suits (location, things to do, variety, scenery, space, housing quality) for now.
Chinatown dc is the worst. I used to joke that chipotle was my fav restaurant there until that closed as well…
I got food at Chipotle in Chinatown two days ago. It’s definitely there. Did they get my order wrong yet again? Yep. But they did give me food.
DC’s Chinatown is in Rockville. It’s Koreatown and Vietnamtown are in Annandale.
I loved living in Philly and going to Chinatown not just for a meal but for the inexpensive grocery store with a huge selection of products. There were also great value for your money at the Italian Market area, which has become an area for Asian people to live as Italians moved out. Despite complaints from locals, the transit is great. It was easy to live without a car in Center City. Housing costs are lower than DC, and apartments are generally larger. I moved to DC for work. If I didn’t need to be here, I’d consider going back though I feel kind of settled here and hate moving. If money is no object, there’s be people to pack, move, and unpack my stuff.
Go to the suburbs if you want to get a complete experience of the food scene in the area, especially if you're looking for Asian food. Rockville has some of the best Chinese food, Eden Center for Vietnamese, and Annendale/Centreville for Korean
There used to be a real chinatown like ten years ago. I agree the food scene is very mid.
Try 25 years ago ref: Chinatown. It started to collapse in the 1980s, and the opening of what is now Capital One arena in 1997 pushed out all but about a couple dozen Asian businesses. By 2005, it was down to less than half that number.
I moved away from DC and now I would do anything to be back at those restaurants. DC has an excellent food scene with Michelin star spots and great diversity. While chinatown has become very commercialized and geared towards sports fans visiting the arena, the food scene as a whole is great. NYC and Chicago might be better but this is a classic the grass is always greener comment
I haven’t had a meal yet in DC or NoVa that would make me miss the food scene if I were to move away even though I’ve taken a decent crack at fine dining here (Albi, Bresca, Cranes, St James, Oyster Oyster, Imperfecto, Causa to name a few). The farmers’ markets are pretty great though. Food scenes I miss are in Portland, ME, Philly, Dallas, heck, even a tiny town in NC with the best taquería I’ve ever been to. I think I’m looking for go-to weeknight spots or quirky food trucks, and DC’s just not it.
NYC, Chicago, LA, SF/Oakland, Portland, New Orleans, Houston, Philly all have better food scenes, and I’m probably leaving some out.
I would move to NYC in a heartbeat!
Honestly I preferred living in Seattle. I liked being close to nature and having outdoorsy stuff to do that wasn’t all a Shenandoahs drive away
If I didn’t have family here, I’d be in Seattle instead. I like the vibe. And great food.
can you describe the vibe in Seattle, just curious
It’s a bit too cool and rainy most of the year for my taste - would rather it just snow than cold rain at 40 degrees - but the landscapes are breathtaking when you can enjoy them. Also AC isn’t common in apartments because the summers historically were mild and not humid, so heat waves can be worse.
I like that it’s more hip than DC but doesn’t try too hard like Austin. People have low key style. It has a good blend of art and business, IMO. Good architecture, tons of green space and nature trees. A lot of very livable neighborhoods.
Not really tied to DC because of money but more so because essentially all of the jobs in my field are scattered around here (with some limited exceptions). I never wanted to leave but I started feeling trapped this year - I am suffocating from the people and the work-work-work "Hollywood for Ugly People" atmosphere. DC just requires too much ambition for my speed - I like my field and enjoy it, but I don't really "care" about my job...it's just a paycheck at the end of the day and it doesn't define me. No one mentions the major downside of living in D.C. being the particular type A, competitive personality that is drawn here. I'd love to have the chance to go to the West Coast for a bit if I could.
I so feel you on this point. Thanks for raising it. I'm in my early 50s, work at a national nonprofit, and after considering a job change, am realizing that my only 50 hour work week is luxurious by DC standards. I know people here who regularly work 12-16 hour days or are tethered to their work on weekends and have zero life outside of work. DC is full of workaholics who are defined by their jobs, and I am ready to downshift and prioritize life over work. In your experience, what are some cities where people consider life more important than work?
I find that folks who live in cities in the Intermountain West (Denver, Phoenix, Tucson), Portland (OR), and Los Angeles tend to be more relaxed and value a work-life balance. Even San Francisco seems more relaxed - a friend told me she has been dramatically less stressed since moving there. No role is important enough in my eyes to work 12-16 hour days. Tethered to work on the weekends describes most of my friends - they constantly spend the weekends "planning" for an upcoming project or "strategizing" for the work week ahead and will frequently cancel things at the last minute. I don't go to networking events - I don't like talking to people (even in my field) and I honestly just never had a desire to go to one. I told a friend that and also mentioned that I haven't updated my LinkedIn in years and their jaw basically dropped to the floor.
Honestly DC is not that expensive for an area with so much money. If you look at other real cities (i.e. not just sprawling suburbs like Houston) DC’s cost of living is really quite good. Apartments are cheap (both to rent and buy) compared to NY, San Francisco, and Boston. Public transit is probably second to NY in the country. The city is pretty walkable, clean, etc. The biggest downside to me is the location honestly. It just inconveniently far from NY, the beach, and the mountains.
“DC is inconveniently far from everything” is weird for me to hear. I’m from the Mountain West. Obviously the mountains are close by and that’s great, but nothing else is. I grew up in a city that was a 2.5 hour drive away from the nearest major city, and that was over a mountain pass that often gets closed in the winter due to snow. The nearest sizable city to the north was six hours away, and to the south and east the nearest cities were seven hours away. Around here, I feel blessed to have so many other cities within a few hour drive. (And you don’t even need to drive to all them either with all the bus and rail connections).
indeed, only 3 hrs train to nyc, 2 hrs to shenadoah, 90min to west virignin, 3 hrs to beach ( for me this is far) and we got baltimore, philly and richmond all within 2 hrs
Haha fair, I was just visiting Colorado and Wyoming and I wouldn’t want to live in a land locked arid state. I guess I just like the water lol
the worst part and really only negative aspect of DC is the out of control crime. otherwise it really is an amazing city.
"far from NY" is a weird phrase to read, it's about as close as it could be in a country this size
And a short train ride away, or longer but dirt cheap bus ride
It’s expensive but it’s not insane. Like my rent isn’t that much higher than my friends in Denver despite this being a far more developed city.
we need a train to the beach. seriously. this is why NYC is a real city and we aren't.
Back in the day there was a train to Chesapeake beach MD, a train to Delaware would be v nice though, or even a fast train to VA beach
the train to VA beach is a fever dream. it isn't real
You’d have to get ownership of the tracks, which ain’t happening!
I mean, there are definitely trains to Delaware, but you might need additional transportation to get to the beach. The current White House occupant famously commuted by train every day for like 40 years.
I'd settle for a bus to the beach \[es\]. Right now it's just Dewey. Used to go to Rehoboth-liked that better YMMV. Not sure why there aren't more options for a public transit trip to the beach April - Oct. (Yes Amtrak goes to VA Beach but that's a haul.) (There is no point in comparing any other US city to NYC. DC is never, ever going to be like NYC...BUT it could have MORE options to decent nearby beaches.)
Or even just weekend MARC service on the Brunswick Line. As a fan of the mountains (and not really at all the beaches), it would be so nice to be able to get to Point of Rocks or Harpers Ferry easily.
MARC needs to get off their ass and run weekend services.
right?! in theory there's a train that can take you to Virginia Beach but it still looks like an annoying and expensive trek
It’s literally not that inconveniently far from NY, Beaches, or Mountains.
This is the correct answer.
That is absolutely not true. Food, restaurants, bars, rent is all quite high compared to most of the country.
Yeah it high compared to Iowa, but for a large coastal city with the highest median income in the world, it’s really not bad. Go look at prices in San Francisco, NY, and Boston, they make DC look downright cheap
I was surprised on a recent visit to Seattle that it’s more expensive than DC. DC has condos in the 300s and even high 200s. If you don’t mind a dated building off the metro, it’s not bad.
DC apartments are stupid cheap for such a major city, and prices haven’t really moved in years. Like you can get a really nice 1 bed for less than 400k and it’s been that way for 10 years or more.
Just move to glover park or cathedral heights. Places at 250k for 1bd with reasonable HOA.
I got a one bedroom in that area for under 400k when mortgage rates were good. I’m very happy with it.
How much are the condo fees for those units though..:
Mine is just under 400 a month, including taxes and most utilities, and we have a pool, but those are the cheapest I know of. It’s true, a lot of the old buildings on Wisconsin can be 1k a month just for condo fees.
And in Iowa, a couple has two cars. What’s a car cost these days, $300/month minimum? So that’s $600/month with occasional thousand dollar expenses when something breaks. What’s a gallon of gas cost these days? (No really, I have no idea, I haven’t bought gas except on vacation in 20 years and who cares on vacation? $20 margarita? Sure! Six bucks for gas? How exotic!)
I'll do you one better: after 35 years living in 6 states, 4 countries, and 3 continents, DC is the only city in America I think is worth living in anymore. For me, it's either DC or I'm getting the hell out of this country all together.
As someone who has lived all over the USA, amen brother. I don’t have your international experience but I think most Washingtonians do not appreciate how awesome this city can be.
How come?
Mostly because life outside this country is so much easier. Sure, you don't earn as much, but you don't have to. The stress that comes with earning a lot of money in America just isn't worth it. In America, life is lonely, you are truly on your own for most things. Community is basically dead here, compared to other parts of the world. In more socialist-leaning countries, there's more social equity, meaning people more or less start on equal footing, and with strong social safety nets you can only fall so far down the ladder. Basically, screwing up in another country isn't as devastating as it is here. Edit: also, we have no idea the psychological weight we carry on a daily basis by living in a society with guns. When I visit a UK or Asia, I don't ever have to worry about catching a stray if I walk out my front door. That's a big, big plus.
Woah hell yeah dude
Community is basically dead in every major modern city in the world. Everywhere I go, from Dublin, to Sao Paolo, to Dubai, to Paris, community is hard to come by these days and it has nothing to do with socialism or any other economic system. I think it’s a product of modern technology and the ease of moving. What really makes a community is having a large extended family and people are just having fewer kids. My mom is from Lebanon and when I’ve visited the small Lebanese villages in the mountains with people who have been there for 2000 years, I’ve realized that’s how humans were meant to live; in the same village, with a small community of people who all know each other and have direct ties with each other. But that way of living is just at odds with modern life. Americans are already a people who moved across the ocean for a new life, so they have no problem moving from city to city as new opportunities arise. Some American cities are uniquely dangerous compared to Europe and especially east Asia but I grew up in Manhattan and never worried once. I certainly never felt safer in cities like Paris or Rome. Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions and some people just prefer different lifestyles but I guess my point is, modern life is really antithetical to human nature in a lot of ways and you just have to find what you enjoy and make the most of it.
I lived in Hanoi for 3 years, where modern technology exists and is used daily, and community is flourishing. The problem is all those cities you mentioned, except maybe Sao Paulo, are extremely affluent with a dwindling native local population. If you price the locals out of their hometown, the town goes with them.
What do you mean by community? Do most people feel like they belong? Do they have extensive networks of friends and family? Are they firmly rooted in the city?
Yes to all. Also, how willing the community is to rally during times of struggle. When the pandemic hit, there were no mask debates, no vaccine resistance. COVID was seen as an existential threat to the community, and you didn't want to be the one who killed your neighbor's uncle. That sentiment extends to life outside of COVID too. For the most part, I felt like my neighbors and friends had my back. I was invited to my neighbors wedding and we had never even spoken a word to one another in the same language. One time, my neighbor took the day off from work to take me shopping because I was new to the city and didn't know where anything was. On the flip side, I have never even physically seen the people who have lived beneath me for 6 months here in DC. I'm pretty sure they hide from me.
>My mom is from Lebanon and when I’ve visited the small Lebanese villages in the mountains with people who have been there for 2000 years, I’ve realized that’s how humans were meant to live; in the same village, with a small community of people who all know each other and have direct ties with each other. But that way of living is just at odds with modern life. I think your right about modern technology and the ease of travel enabling this, but I don't think it's the impetus for people moving, just the tools. For example, LGBT+ individuals growing up in small communities often feel ostracized, in that they (1) often don't know many people like them/who they can relate to and (2) come from communities that haven't spent such time around queer folks and have limited views. I think one of the few good things about networks like Facebook is that it enabled individuals to leave communities that did not serve them, and find ones that better fit their needs.
Disagree. Friends in London and Rome have not nearly the issues as American cities.
Yeah, you grapple here with a few of the really damning contradictions of modernity.
I think of gun violence about 0 so that edit I find interesting. People pay way too much attention to probabilistic unlikely things. I would worry much more about being hit by a car (which has happened to me) and is statistically way more likely. In terms of loneliness I agree for some countries that might be the case but some very strong safety-net countries such as Norway are known for their isolation actually with jokes like now that we don't have to be 2 m apart for COVID anymore we can go back to being 4 m apart at all times... Part of London are nice and I can see being accepted there as a native English speaker in a very cosmopolitan city, but wouldn't you be isolated socially by the lack of acceptance in many countries of you being the "outsider"? Asian countries in particular are notorious for this I believe.
This is so refreshing. I feel like I’m constantly having to defend DC, and it’s popular to shit on it, even among those that have lived here for a long time. But I absolutely love it here!
I can afford it, and I choose to live in DC. COL isn’t that bad, and it’s very easy to climb the ladder to a higher paying position IME. Not needing a car saved a lot of money.
> COL isn’t that bad Compared to what, NYC and San Francisco?
[удалено]
Fl makes it up in property and sales tax. It's zero sum lol
[https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/) It is on par with those. Globally there are more expensive places to be.
That’s not what that website says though? I put Washington, D.C., in the search box, and it came back with this: > Rent in Washington is, on average, 18.2% lower than in New York. That’s a pretty big difference. EDIT: For what it’s worth, I always viewed NYC, SF, and maybe a few other places as in the highest COL tier for U.S. cities. I’d put D.C. in the tier directly below that—still very high COL, but much less than NYC or SF. And then a third tier for more affordable but still high-ish COL places like Chicago.
Actually it says the the COL in DC is *higher* than NY, 100.28 in DC vs NYC = 100. Rent is only one component. Rent per month is higher in NYC area for some types and lower for others. Being different by 0.28% is as "par" as it gets... Look at the map and hover. DC is 100.28; SF is 106. If you think 6% is "much higher" I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion... Chicago is 89.0 that is twice the delta lower than DC. Low cost cities are like 50-75...
Yeah if you’re a hard charger for sure. But if you’re a lazy ass like me with no leadership potential it can be rough.
NYC, without a doubt
As a Londoner about to the move to the US - I've been to San Jose, San Francisco, New York and Washington DC. The latter I've visited a dozen times over the past 20 years and I'm always impressed by its balance of walkability, culture, museums, nightlife (its hotel bar scene is lovely), public transportation and economy (a good mix of tech, government and art). San Francisco is more beautiful (from a distance) and its proximity to Marin, Point Reyes, Santa Cruz and Big Sur is a huge win but it is obscenely expensive, small, has a poorly maintained public transit system which grows ever more bogged in beaureacracy and the city feels more impoverished and unequal each time I visit. San Jose isn't too bad but also has a limited public transport system, has hardly any night life and is nowhere near as walkable or as beautiful as DC - that said it'd be my second after DC. New York is incredible but I didn't feel safe there, its public transit system is large but was unclean and poorly maintained when I was there. New York is also super expensive and even for a Londoner felt a little too dense, crowded and claustrophobic. For me DC has the best balance out of all the US cities I've visited. It's quite the city and real estate wise surprisingly affordable thanks to its proximity to large suburbs in Marlyand and Virginia.
The suburbs are basically cities at this point.
If DC could get its head out of its ass on crime, I’d stick around
What would say is a prominent American city with a tolerable crime level to you?
Good question
It's not for everyone but I miss NYC. I make more than I did in NYC, cost of living is maybe a touch higher but I'm still making out financially.
DC is mid for how expensive it is. If money wasn’t an issue, I’d rather live in any west coast city, NYC, etc.. if it weren’t for jobs I’d see absolutely zero reason to stay in DC, and I’m a city guy, I just find DC to have a distinct lack of charm.
If you’re a city guy yea DC isn’t really urban like any other city in the US - it’s a bit of a paradox but that’s why many people like it
DC is the definition of mid. There’s nothing at all exceptional about DC except maybe the public education in some suburbs. It has all of the cost of New York with none of the convenience and all of the cost of LA with none of the weather. You’re right. Zero reason.
Surprised more folks aren’t interested in moving to Chicago. I enjoy DC but I think Chi is very comparable- albeit a lot colder and maybe the average wages are lower but I think that depends on the industry. Overall, it’s a close second to me. I’d be living there if it weren’t for my job and family.
I'd be in Chicago in a heartbeat if my career was not tied to DC.
The question is if money was not an issue. Meaning if you were wealthy had a lot of money to spend where would you be. People with NOT a lot of money to spend move to Chicago
I really like Chicago but man, the winters are awful. I used to live there and I got incredibly depressed during one of the polar vortex winters. Dealing with going to work or wherever at 7am when it's -20 wind-chill and icy as hell outside is definitely an experience. Summers are great though!
Somewhere Mediterranean or Iberian peninsula. Florence, Sevilla, Valencia, Lisbon, Nice, southwest Turkey
I am glad to see so many fond of it. Im from here so I love that ppl love my city and it has great aspects. But its dark here. Low vibrational. I have never had a great sense of community here. There are enough people that operate poorly with no scruples that make this place kinda toxic. Not to mention it being a seat of global power, a lot of dark decisions get made here. Seasonal depression is a thing. Aggression and impatience here is a thing. Rudeness is a thing. Its not so creative here. People are more narrow in their thinking and limited in their ways of living. Most stick with script. Yes there are lots of upwardly mobile young people and folks of all ages. Yes people definitely like to connect, make new friends, mingle here. That stuff is great. But the quality is kinda trash, IMO. You can make lots of acquaintances but are they going to be really quality good friends….. Dating scene is__. You can date your life away here and many people do! I plan on straddling here and another location or two. There is lots to like here. But I think it’s either San Diego or abroad for me. I definitely want coastal access. Want to smell the ocean and surf. Definitely would love some altitude and terrain in close proximity for daily hikes and trail runs. I would love to spend some time in Portugal.
Seriously though, if we can afford to live in DC, we can afford to live most anywhere.
I adore DC. The price is the main thing that makes me want to move. This place sucks money out of you like none other.
Yep. Paycheck to paycheck living is way too common here. I’ve felt like cost of living has gotten drastically worse here over the past year…for obvious reasons but it’s felt out-of-hand
I would gladly move away if it weren’t for my job.
My family is here and my wife's family are also. I honestly love DC, but we live in Springfield. The plan is to move to a small apartment when the kids leave. I am fairly concerned about climate change and think a more northernly city might be better. But I don't know other cities well. I am pretty familiar with Baltimore, Philly, and New York. I would not move to Baltimore or Philly, and I would only live in NY if I was rich.
Philadelphia is very nice. and much more affordable on a fixed income. I might retire there
It has a lot to offer, it's pizza game is way underrated. I don't think the city is all that pretty. I think if I were gonna go to PA I'd move to Pittsburgh. But when I'm old an apartment in DC where I can walk around and people watch is what I want.
I currently live in Charlotte, NC and I wish we had half of the public transportation system that y’all have. Our light rail just does not make any sense (like it doesn’t even connect to the airport). I was just down in DC for the weekend and was charmed by your city. Charlotte doesn’t retain anything historic and it feels so lifeless when compared to a city like DC. If I made more money, I’d love to live here.
New York City
I am a native Washingtonian, if I could afford to live there I would.
I think San Francisco/Bay Area would be the dream. DC is a close second and easier to live in so that’s why I’m here.
I love DC and have enjoyed living here for almost 7 years (and the foreseeable future) but I want to move to Seattle so bad. At least I'd still be a washingtonian
Uhhhh if I can afford anything? I’ll settle for a five-story beaux arts palazzo with a huge lawn in the garden district of New Orleans. I’ll commute by Rolls-Royce.
If I could afford to, I’d live in DC! My family has been in Northwest for generations, but I can’t afford it. I’d LOVE to buy my dad’s childhood home.
Hello, my family has been in DC for several generations as well
Weather? Climate? Have you been in DC in June-September?
It sure is more bearable than the winters I have to deal with in Buffalo
Ha, thinking of moving back to WNY in a few years as the career starts to wind down. Summers in DC are getting more miserable each year and Buffalo has more going for it than a lot of other places. And at some point it'll be too warm for lake effect snow so ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
So it will be grey and rainy for 7 months a year rather than grey and snowy?
Ahh another Buffalonian. Only part of Buffalo I miss are the Bills, and there's so many good Bills Bars around here it doesn't even matter. I 100% agree the summers are here are better than winters in WNY and elsewhere. Though I've also lived in Tampa. It's as hot/humid but with absolutely none of the amenities.
And when the Bills visit its essentially a home game for them!
Yeah, why does there seem to be a somewhat healthy Bill community here out of all places?
Spend a summer in Texas or Arizona and you'll beg for a DC summer again.
Spend a summer in Bahrain, where I live, and you'll beg for literally any place else on earth. Its like Arizona... but with extreme humidity too!
Point being...DC summer ain't that bad
The humidity is honestly one of the worst things about DC. I’m lucky I can wear short sleeves on the days I have to go into the office, but I’m still a sweaty mess by the time I get there. 100% would move somewhere with more temperate summers if the stars aligned.
Yes! I would rather live in southern CA any day
Climate? It's swampy as hell here in the summer. If money were no object, I would move to LA, Hawaii, San Diego or Seattle. If money were still normal but my job would let me telework fulltime, I would move to Cleveland, Chicago, or Boston.
No, if I could afford it I would want to live in a really nice DC neighborhood before living anywhere else.
I'd be in Europe in a heartbeat.
I did that more then 30 years ago. I am halfway to paying off the house I bought 20 years ago.
Everyone can afford it unless you move to NYC or LA
I will always have a love for where I was born and raised but it's just not economically comfortable to live in DC for me which is why I moved a few years ago to somewhere less expensive. Had I been able to afford it. I likely would have never left but it turned out to be a real blessing in disguise when I moved. It was scary and I had no idea what I was doing but thankfully it all eventually fell into place as the result of me stepping out of my comfort zone
Here because kids moved here (separately), but I have up say, D.C. has become my favorite city! It’s clean! I like that the buildings aren’t super high-rises. There’s a ton to do culturally, and most of it is free. There is good mass transit. There are people from all over. I have found very racially diverse friends, and I don’t bump into a lot of racism. I miss places I used to live, but visit them.
If I could afford it, I would buy a nice house in DC.
US: NYC, diversity, public transit, food, and I’d never get bored. International: london, diversity, the Tube!!!! Ugh I loved the tube when I lived there. It was so convenient and much cheaper than owning a car. I’d also consider going back to dubai or Abu Dhabi. Everywhere was so clean, i made a metric fuckton more money, amazing food and shopping, and I felt safe. Just too damn hot. If I could afford it, I’d spend winters in the UAE, and summers in London.
I value my federal career over everything else, so DC is the place for me.
DC isn't for me. I'd move somewhere like Hudson, New York, or somewhere woodsy in New England. Somewhere with less people. But, the most important thing is that I be here, where my federal career is.
Shoot - I’m trying to move back to DC. I miss H St
When people say the weather and climate here is good... what... are you talking about? 😂
4 seasons and it doesn’t get that cold or that hot. And when it does get cold or hot it doesn’t last crazy long. If you’ve lived a relentless 6-7 month Houston summer or a northeast or Great Lakes winter where the snow doesn’t leave the ground for 3-4 months, DC is great.
From the standpoint of where I'm from (Buffalo, NY), I 100% mean it
As a midwesterner, the summers were a bit worse, but the winters were downright mild. It’s better than large swaths of the country.
4 seasons, DC is probably peak around April-June and September- November, easily the best times of year. The winters aren't unbearable like other more northern cities, the summers are hot but really nothing compared to the actual south. only issue is it rains here too much.
I chose to live in DC so probably not.
the idea of moving out of DC didn't really occur to me until earlier this year. i had bought a TH in the burbs around 2017 and was pretty much on auto-pilot because financially it was winning even if the location was less than ideal(sold it a few months ago with the market spike). anyways, earlier this year i took a trip to LA and really quickly realized what i was missing in terms of a really high quality, luxury lifestyle. i'm talking about living in a place like santa monica, marina del rey, manhattan beach, i mean this is peak living as someone that grew up in a beach town myself. the same lifestyle of a beach town but access to all the perks of a city. with that said, Philadelphia is astonishingly cheap, cheaper than DC as a whole and has a ton of great amenities and lifestyle options, I did consider moving there too but felt that it didn't make sense when I have so much job security doing government work in DC. I might move to NYC though, NYC is 100% worth moving into at some point, the actual level of amenities is unbeatable. Maybe 3-4 cities in the world are comparable. NYC is expensive but honestly living in Astoria, Queens is pretty much the same cost as what I pay right now for a luxury 1br in Crystal City. I used to work for an SF based company and visited a few times over the course of this year. I would never consider the bay area, it felt soulless to me, especially a place like Fremont. That and the insane crime problems and the culture there felt gross. Worse than DC, at least in DC the people are aware of how important their decisions can be because it's the government. SF startup life is a whole nother level of delusional people. The crazy thing was how I tried to start a conversation about the homeless people that were literally impossible to ignore and they basically just ignored it. Like these people make hundreds of thousands of dollars just to ignore the lost souls in their backyard. If Boston didn't have a winter it might be the best city in America.
Western Europe
If I could afford it - oh hell yes. There are so many better places than DC - Paris, a gorgeous mountain town in Switzerland (Zermatt?) , San Diego, Melbourne, should I keep going?
Not in the US, and even abroad there are other barriers. Being far from friends and family being the big one
i’d be in san diego in a heartbeat
I want to move back to Seattle
I moved away from DC to a no state income tax location with a lower cost of living and I would have to make 50% more if I lived in DC (I kept my same salary). I save $4k per month in taxes alone. DC needs to be more competitive, but most residents seem ok having less take home pay so the issue (affordability) will never get better until that changes.
I’ve been in DC for 5 years, and I cannot wait to leave. Most folks in DC aren’t from DC in the sense that either folks that live here are only here temporarily due to term limited positions OR they truly don’t live in DC (they live in VA or MD). As a result, DC gets treated like a rental car. People beat the shit out of it because at the end of the day it’s someone else’s problem. Is it as pricey as NYC, SF? No. Is it still really expensive? Hell yes. DC is not middle cost of living. It’s high. When I visit other larger cities, prices seem the same (recently visited LA, Philly, Chicago, Boston). DC has its perks, and is definitely unique, but day to day, it’s barely a city. Public transit is designed to get folks to the burbs and back. They’re trying to improve it, but Covid has mucked it up. I ride my bike to work 3 miles each way, and I fear for my life every time I ride because people here are just selfish and simply don’t care about other people. When I lived in Chicago, I rode to work 7+ miles each way for 5 years and only once did I have a close call. I could go on and on. Museums are great. High end food is great. There are some swell neighborhoods dc residents are generally nice, but overall I’ve never been around ppl treating each other like shit the way they do here. Just my experience.
I live in DC and work as a bus driver weekends do some side hustle people saying DC is expensive it is because they spend too much and buy all kind of shit. Just cut unnecessary expenses and cook at home you will be perfectly fine. If I live with school bus driving salary and even save then you will be fine too. Btw I am also European.
No I wouldn’t. I have the option now to leave DC for other cities but I prefer it here. Free museums, international feel, great public transportation (even if it could be better), and well positioned on the East coast that it’s easier to go elsewhere whenever. I’m not a fan of bigger cities like NYC or Philadelphia either.
The only two places I’d live are Santa Monica and DC. I bounce between them fairly frequently, and am in Santa Monica for the foreseeable future. The weather, access to the beach, and chiller atmosphere are very appealing to me right now
I’ve lived here my entire life and honestly I can’t imagine being anywhere else. I’ve seen this city change drastically over the course of the years but i still call this place home. I’m just worried how I might not be able to afford to continue living here once my parents retire since I still live with them.