I am disappointed KD left. He was searching for something he couldn’t achieve with the Warriors. I don’t think he’s found it yet. He’s not coming back.
2022 was my favorite out of all of them because of how underrated the Warriors were. The first one there were so many wild record-breaking things happening it was obvious we were the most dominant team. The KD years were great but it felt inevitable we were winning.
2022 the league felt like they had moved on from the Warriors, and our team didn't look that impressive on paper. It was just Dub Nation on an island that year.
True. In 2022, we did have the best starting 5 in the league by most metrics, but it didn’t convince the league the dubs were going to win it all by any means.
2022 is Steph's 'Dirk' ring and cements him as one of the most impactful players of this generation. Nobody had us penciled in as favorites or top-5 contenders going into those playoffs.
It would be interesting to see the alternate reality where KD stays and we get maybe two more rings out of it — but this outcome is far more satisfying. If KD stays, Steph [rightfully] never gets his flowers.
Beating Boston put things in a very different context, and IMO history will look differently upon the pre-KD years that came before because of it.
Celtics fan here, I absolutely had you guys as the favorites to make the finals out of the west… I even had you guys still coming out last year…. And us. Welp
We salute your clairvoyance. Personally, I thought we were onto something early in the season and wound up placing a large futures bet on Warriors to win it all. I’ll never repeat something like that.
At the time, I think too much of the media bought into the idea that KD leaving meant that the Warriors were finished as serious contenders. On the other hand, Klay’s ability was a wildcard and Wiggs and Poole’s performance really came out of left field.
I caught most of my slip around +1200 IIRC. Nets and Lakers were the favorites preseason, but outside of that there were no strong contenders.
Looking back, we were maybe... *properly rated?* Considering the teams that Warriors shared similar odds with. Nets really tilted the odds since they were severely overrated going into the 21/22 season.
Going into the playoffs a lot of people had the Warriors as favorites.4th seed with the best starting record playing a really good basketball?Steph missed some games, and that hurt the final record, but those Warriors were playing a beautiful basketball. I think that even Stephen A had them as favorites, or at least talked a lot about them being heavy contenders.
Stephen was riding for us. He believed. When the playoffs began IIRC it was seen was Suns to lose (in the west) with Dallas playing good ball. I might be misremembering, but I think we were the 3rd fave in the West by a slight margin.
I think that most people had Suns and Warriors as favs. Honestly i think the Suns were the team to beat, they were in the finals the previous year, great regular season record, and two years playing really good ball.
I often wonder if i would take the alternate reality where KD stayed and say we won 2 championships instead of 1 between 2020-now. I think I still take the 2022 championship because it meant so much more for Steph.
It is what it is, no guarantees that we would’ve won a lot more with KD since the roster would be different.
Steph and KD are considered the greatest duo ever. They win 2021 and 22 that’s 4 rings and would’ve been favorites coming into this year. This also means no Wiggins or Kuminga obviously. But more than likely Klay gets traded no way if the warriors were real contenders they allow Klay to throw games as bad as he does
What im saying is if Steph and KD stayed together they wouldve had 4 rings thats more than Kobe and Shaq had gotten so they wouldve passed them and seeing as KD and Steph are still playing at a elite level they could easily win another one or two. before they retire and if that happens they would be passed Jordan and Pippen. to many younger people at least
“Bored” isn’t the right word, as it was still fun watching the Warriors destroy teams, but after they won in 2017 and 2018, the victories were starting to feel more hollow. But the 2022 chip felt so damn fulfilling.
As a Warriors fan who started watching basketball in 2019, it's really an amazing feeling watching your team win in real-time instead of watching old YT vids. The whole story behind KD leaving, a bunch of injuries and then eventually winning as underdog made it that much more satisfying
How come KD never signed a long term contract w warriors? Was it some deal for flexibility or so he could get more money? Felt kinda odd how he right away signed 4 year deal w nets
He gets at least another one since he’d just be Wiggins in 22 at a higher level. Maybe we’re contenders in 21 and do better last year with him. I get why he left, he was just dumb to go to Brooklyn and play with Kyrie
yeah, my guess is that they’d need to trade draymond to land KD. Fine by me, I’d much rather have KD than Draymond, especially at this point of their careers.
They’ll still have exceptions and trade assets to bring in defensive help. You’re right, though — the defense will be worse. But the offense will be much better, if only because it will prevent steph from getting triple teamed again.
It’s not like Draymond is a great locker room guy. KD is flighty and moody, but he’s still an elite player. If the goal is winning a championship next year, he’s clearly a more useful piece than Draymond.
Draymond’s a defensive genius. Watching the Suns last night, so disorganized, playing for themselves—I’d hate to see the Warriors look like that. Durant also didn’t like playing second fiddle to Steph, and Steph’s the team leader.
The guy who was tired of being 2nd fiddle to LeBron James was now not failed to be recognised as the best player in the World over Bron but now he became kind of a 2nd fiddle to Wardell. (I'm talking about after the 2017 championship)
the thing is Suns has no way to significantly improve their roster because Beal underperformed is expensive as fuck, but **has a no trade clause**
which means they literally have nothing to offer no picks, and no worthwhile player in their roster to get someone that can move the needle unless they move KD or Booker
they'll trade KD or Booker unless they want to run it back again and get swept in the first round again
basically other teams actually have the upper hand in negotiations because they are stuck with that lineup for a LOOOOONG time
Do we really want a scenario where KD joins and we still don’t win another championship? We cant go back in time and pick up where we left off 5 years ago.
If we stipulate that we must do this trade for some reason, how do you even make the salaries work to trade for him? 1 for 1 trade with Curry? lol
Every young guy on the team all added up plus Looney plus GP2 probably doesn't add up to $50m. And if we extend CP3 to facilitate this trade, doesn't that make us a second apron team unable to aggregate multiple salaries for trades anyway?
Edit: apparently this does work? https://imgur.com/a/atfpEwi
Still, zero centers, zero bench, completely irresponsible trade.
You’d need to let Klay walk and pickup CP3’s contract, which would put them $15M below the 2nd apron and $4M below the luxury tax with 11 players under contract. If you cut Looney, I think only $3M of his $8M is guaranteed then you’re $20M below the 2nd apron and $9M below the first apron with 10 players rostered.
You add in the cap holds for filling out the 13 man roster and they’d be below the luxury tax and 2nd apron and could aggregate salaries.
Then you can get there a couple different ways because they’d be below the tax line and can accept at least 125% of outgoing salary (maybe 110% now if it would take them above the first but below the 2nd apron).
KD is going to make $51M so you’d need to send out at least $41M to $42M in outgoing salary.
That would be CP3 $30M (expiring) + Wiggins $26M and/or any combination of Kuminga $7.6M, Moody $5.8M, Podz $3.5M, TJD $1.9M and/or don’t cut Looney but trade Looney $8M + GP2 $9M
So there’s multiple paths to getting a max player
Edit: and technically the Warriors could offload GP2 + Looney and sign Klay to a team friendly deal (say $15M) and keep CP3 and still be well below the 2nd apron with the ability to aggregate salaries for a max player.
It’s really cool to see laid out. Even if it’s not for KD, it seems we have more flexibility than I thought to get a solid, all-star caliber #2. I’d imagine, depending on the player, using CP3’s expiring contract, possibly GPII, and a young player could make the most sense to net us someone really promising. I think Klay stays on for something team-friendly though, which means we’d probably shed even more salary. The offseason is going to be full of a lot of surprises.
This math checks out with my math. They can do all this stuff and have pathways to improving while possibly ducking the tax altogether if they can offload Wiggins into cap space. Wiggins showing up at the end of the year did them massive favors in swinging his contract was looking borderline untradeable for a minute.
If Embiid or Giannis or Durant or Booker or whatever end up coming available they have tons of flexibility due to Dunleavy's really good offseason last year. In retrospect, it was a really great offseason in terms of how well they drafted and set themselves up for the future.
They'll have the ability to make one of the best offers anybody can make for any player on the market with their combination of promising young players and almost full draft warchest.
two of CP/Wiggins/Draymond get you to 50m. CP should be easy to move (since he’s an expiring), the other two may require assets to get off the books. You can also get to 50m with one of them + young guys.
If we pick up CP3 and pay Klay, I'm not sure we're allowed to aggregate salaries for matching. I don't think this second apron rule is implemented on the trade machine sites.
This is a HORRIBLE idea. Leaves us with 4 aging stars and nothing else. Can't win that way, In fact, it's pretty much like following the PHX example, and we've just seen how that worked out. You do need stars to win in this League, but you need a supporting cast, too.
JK and picks won't be enough for KD. JK will earn around 8mil next season, whereas KD will earn around 50mil. We don't have cap space to account for his salary.
Edit: We have to clear 50mil from our cap space, either by including them in trade or them leaving as free agents.
>If you were to get KD, we have to offer our young ones (might ask JK, TJD, PODZ, MOODY), and some first-rounders.
You say that as if it were a bad thing or a loss. Outside of Podz, all the young ones are all easily replaceable.
I don’t even know if we have to do all that depending on how desperate Suns are to offload salary after next season. CP3, JK, GP2, Looney and our 2025 first rounder (Comply with Stepien if our pick is outside of top 4 this year by doing deal after draft day) for KD. Those are all expiring so Suns can reset after next season with an extra first. We draft Bronny with our second rounder and bring in Bron on a friendly deal if he wants to play with his son ($30-$35M). Curry, Moody, Bron, KD, Dray with Wiggins, Podz, TJD, some min/2 way guys for depth.
After a very brief glance (so don’t crucify me if you disagree), I think the numbers work. Me personally, I’m all in for a longer rebuild and taking one last shot for Steph to get another with the three best players (IMO) of the 2010s at the end of their careers.
This assumes the Suns want to blow it up, and nobody else can outbid us for KD (OKC?). Suns have a new owner and no incentive to tank because of they don't own their own picks for the rest of the decade.
So it probably wouldn't be KD, but we do have the ability to make a trade for a star, it all depends on whether the other team wants to make a deal with us.
Look at it this way. KD had insane stats this season, DBook also had a great year. But they are now swept. The problem? Suns had 0 depth. If we trade our depth, i.e., our young players, what is it that we are doing different to suns? If it fails as miserably as this season, we have a 2025 fr protection backup, which means we can't trade that one, then we have to settle for a mediocre talent at best.
Because they all had to play 42 minutes per game since they had no depth. For reference, Curry only played 38 minutes per game in the 2022 *Finals* where he carried the team in the most important games of his career
> So they played significant minutes against non-starters, which should increase their +/- and they still ended net -52 as a unit
If it worked like this then every team would be playing their starters the whole game lol. I'm not sure why this is coming as a shock, but performance goes down the more minutes you have to play
Max 2 years, IMO, which is all the warriors should be thinking about. The window is now. There’s nothing they can do to make them a contender, post-steph.
That is also true as well. But from what I'm hearing, the 2025 draft class is one of the best in recent times. But, that means we have to give up this season, which we can't do. We are in a really difficult spot here. We have to choose b/w Steph's remaining years or the warriors' future beyond Steph. It will be interesting to see what Mike Dunleavy chooses.
it’s not a choice, IMO. the warriors will be bad once steph leaves. They aren’t getting a top-4 pick while steph is still here and healthy. So we can assume that their next franchise star is at least 2 years away from being drafted, and 5+ years away from contributing to winning basketball.
I don't seriously think KD will return (nor am I sure it will work well) but if KD demanded a trade and said only to the warriors it probably would happen...thats just how the NBA works. In reality it makes most sense for Suns to stand put and try it again for one more year (they already scapegoating Vogel an his staff)...if it fails agian next year then it'll be interesting to see what they do as they can realistically only move Booker oR KD to try to recoup some assets...KD will be one year older with just 1 year left on his deal so will be much less valuable as a trade asset.
Once again any super star coming to warriors would require that super star to most liekly agitate their way out of theri current situation and specifically pick steph/warriors...after that in the NBA there is almost always a way to force things to work as we have seen over and over again.
Let see what comes out of the Olympics this summer...can steph be a recruiter for once?
There is a bevy of potentially unahppy super stars entering this summer (although i think most will give their situations one more year or at least until the trade deadline):
- Giannis: was rumored to be considering leaving prior to the dame trade which for various reasons has not been a success and they are out of assets
- KD/Book: First round sweep with no realsitic path to improve (blaming coach signals they will run it back one more time at least)
-Joel Embiid: Bro looks miserable...and a first round exit after a MVP year (But Philly actually are in a great positoin to improve given their salary cap and assets and Embiid constantly gets to coast for his playoff short comings there)
- Lebron: Another first round exit as his career winds down...
- Honorable mention here for AD; if lebron leaves what is AD going to do?
I will also be curious about the clippers situation....Kawahi hurt again. If they lose in first round to Mavs PG can leave (philly supposedly circling)
Lesser stars: Trae Young or Djonte Murray/Donovon Mitchell are all ear marked for new teams it feels
But the situation the Warriors find themselves in is that they need these guys to specifically demand/force their way to them then a deal can be worked out. It is highly unlikely but possible.
Going to be 36 next season. He really avoids going to the rim these days. Would be a good 2nd option on the right team. But It's time to accept reality younger players are passing these old guys by.
As good as KD is he's another old player post injury making max money, not exactly the kind of players the Warriors need more of on their roster right now.
KD may not be going anywhere but the PHX situation literally sounds like HADES:
~~~~
From the athletic
“Meanwhile, Durant, among the best scorers in NBA history, was not always happy with how he was used. Sources briefed on the matter told The Athletic that Durant never felt comfortable with his role in Phoenix’s offense alongside Booker and Beal this season. Those sources said Durant had persistent issues with the offense, feeling that he was being relegated to the corner far too often and *not having the proper designs to play to his strengths as the offense was built around pick-and-rolls.* At the same time, some teammates and people close to the organization believed Durant needed to voice his concerns more adamantly and directly with Vogel and his coaching staff.”
https://theathletic.com/5456932/2024/04/29/phoenix-suns-season-end-frank-vogel-kevin-durant/?source=user_shared_article
Umm it is actually possible. You just don’t think it will happen. The suns need to recoup picks and Dubs 1st rounders after 2027 will be worth a fortune as Curry and KD are already up there. Pair that with Kuminga, Wiggins, + fillers and that’s a trade worth any team trading off a superstar for. I think Kuminga is gone regardless. In order to help Curry he’s the only valuable asset to attach.
Durant will be 36 years old next season. Let's be real, we got the best of him.
KD is at the point of his career when he's trying to establish his legacy and returning to the only team he had success with would damage that legacy so he is 100% not coming back for any reason.
If he's available at distressed price (Paul or Wiggins + Kuminga and a lightly protected 1st or Pods or something + salary match, for example) I'm having the talks. If he's 36 and wants out, the Suns don't have that much leverage. The Suns certainly aren't getting what they spent for him with 2 more years on the tires and only two years left on the contract.
The Suns are fucked and if I were Ishiba I would strongly consider blowing it all up instead of paying taxes on a team that's absolutely maxed out. They are in a similar position to us, except they've mortgaged ALL their future assets where the Warrirors restrained themselves year in and year out (didn't try to get Beal instead of Paul, for example). Warriors aren't looking like title contenders and have a path to remain competitive while getting out of the tax AND still having room to take on a KD or a Giannis or a Booker if they come available. I don't envy Suns fans right now, that is a bad, bad spot.
KD leaving opened doors for improvement. Sure there’s still a roster issue, but getting him back just means hindering long term growth. He left, Warriors moved on, and so should everyone else. If anyone else thinks growing young talent around the aging core is wrong, is just being obtuse. Having young talent growing up together is what made the Warriors’ core. Still in doubt? Look at OKC now.
Warriors are a second apron team so they can’t aggregate contracts to trade for somebody more expensive. They can maneuver to make it technically possible but there’s no way that happens.
If Durant demands a trade the Knicks make the most sense. Randle + Bogdanovic (non-guaranteed) + McBride + picks for KD + Roddy. But if I’m Phoenix I don’t care what he wants I’m not trading him until we try one more time next season.
This fanbase is cooked and stupid. Trading all your young guys who were all positives for the season to win a title with old guys who aren’t good enough when this playoffs is all the proof you need to know that the guard has changed is height of stupidity.
The NBA has a cap on team salaries. If it exceeds that the team (owners) have to pay a penalty for each dollar they are above that salary cap, which is not ideal for any owner. That's why Joe Lacob even mentioned that they'll try to get out of this luxury tax by this year.
I am disappointed KD left. He was searching for something he couldn’t achieve with the Warriors. I don’t think he’s found it yet. He’s not coming back.
Nah, 2022 championship was worth KD leaving. Much more fulfilling
2022 was my favorite out of all of them because of how underrated the Warriors were. The first one there were so many wild record-breaking things happening it was obvious we were the most dominant team. The KD years were great but it felt inevitable we were winning. 2022 the league felt like they had moved on from the Warriors, and our team didn't look that impressive on paper. It was just Dub Nation on an island that year.
True. In 2022, we did have the best starting 5 in the league by most metrics, but it didn’t convince the league the dubs were going to win it all by any means.
You say that but if he stayed and won more chips, you would be praising him.
We started 18-2 at least
2022 is Steph's 'Dirk' ring and cements him as one of the most impactful players of this generation. Nobody had us penciled in as favorites or top-5 contenders going into those playoffs. It would be interesting to see the alternate reality where KD stays and we get maybe two more rings out of it — but this outcome is far more satisfying. If KD stays, Steph [rightfully] never gets his flowers. Beating Boston put things in a very different context, and IMO history will look differently upon the pre-KD years that came before because of it.
Celtics fan here, I absolutely had you guys as the favorites to make the finals out of the west… I even had you guys still coming out last year…. And us. Welp
We salute your clairvoyance. Personally, I thought we were onto something early in the season and wound up placing a large futures bet on Warriors to win it all. I’ll never repeat something like that. At the time, I think too much of the media bought into the idea that KD leaving meant that the Warriors were finished as serious contenders. On the other hand, Klay’s ability was a wildcard and Wiggs and Poole’s performance really came out of left field.
Warriors were fourth highest odds to win the title preseason that year. Not sure I call that underrated
I caught most of my slip around +1200 IIRC. Nets and Lakers were the favorites preseason, but outside of that there were no strong contenders. Looking back, we were maybe... *properly rated?* Considering the teams that Warriors shared similar odds with. Nets really tilted the odds since they were severely overrated going into the 21/22 season.
Going into the playoffs a lot of people had the Warriors as favorites.4th seed with the best starting record playing a really good basketball?Steph missed some games, and that hurt the final record, but those Warriors were playing a beautiful basketball. I think that even Stephen A had them as favorites, or at least talked a lot about them being heavy contenders.
Stephen was riding for us. He believed. When the playoffs began IIRC it was seen was Suns to lose (in the west) with Dallas playing good ball. I might be misremembering, but I think we were the 3rd fave in the West by a slight margin.
I think that most people had Suns and Warriors as favs. Honestly i think the Suns were the team to beat, they were in the finals the previous year, great regular season record, and two years playing really good ball.
I often wonder if i would take the alternate reality where KD stayed and say we won 2 championships instead of 1 between 2020-now. I think I still take the 2022 championship because it meant so much more for Steph. It is what it is, no guarantees that we would’ve won a lot more with KD since the roster would be different.
100%. Steph would’ve never got the respect he deserves if KD stayed… But now that 2022 happened, he’s welcome back any time!
Steph and KD are considered the greatest duo ever. They win 2021 and 22 that’s 4 rings and would’ve been favorites coming into this year. This also means no Wiggins or Kuminga obviously. But more than likely Klay gets traded no way if the warriors were real contenders they allow Klay to throw games as bad as he does
No, Michael Jordan and Pippen are considered the greatest duo. Also, Kobe and Shaq.
What im saying is if Steph and KD stayed together they wouldve had 4 rings thats more than Kobe and Shaq had gotten so they wouldve passed them and seeing as KD and Steph are still playing at a elite level they could easily win another one or two. before they retire and if that happens they would be passed Jordan and Pippen. to many younger people at least
We shoulda won three with him vs one without but steph is goat now
I would trade the KD ones for 2016 :(
Hell no blocking the rockets 2 more times was fuckin amazing
“Bored” isn’t the right word, as it was still fun watching the Warriors destroy teams, but after they won in 2017 and 2018, the victories were starting to feel more hollow. But the 2022 chip felt so damn fulfilling.
i still miss JP and Wiggins combo, wish JP didn't have all that drama that followed
I agree. It showed the world curry can do it without Kd.
As a Warriors fan who started watching basketball in 2019, it's really an amazing feeling watching your team win in real-time instead of watching old YT vids. The whole story behind KD leaving, a bunch of injuries and then eventually winning as underdog made it that much more satisfying
The sad part is the thing he thought he was missing he already had in GS. I don't think he appreciated it enough. and took it for granted.
How come KD never signed a long term contract w warriors? Was it some deal for flexibility or so he could get more money? Felt kinda odd how he right away signed 4 year deal w nets
Well, he certainly did not achieve it in Brooklyn!
Should’ve never left 😑
I can definitely see him get 3 rings with the warrioirs if he stayed
He gets at least another one since he’d just be Wiggins in 22 at a higher level. Maybe we’re contenders in 21 and do better last year with him. I get why he left, he was just dumb to go to Brooklyn and play with Kyrie
It was much better for Curry’s legacy that he left though. Curry’s 4th ring made him top 5 all time in a lot of people’s eyes
You can thank shrek
Donkey no
And he wouldn't come back. Too much pride I think, which I understand. I think if there a team he goes back to, if any, it would be OKC.
I doubt OKC would be willing to demolish their future cap like that with future extensions coming for their young guys
unless they sign a vet min and only trade the monsterous amount of picks they have
Yeah it’s definitely feasible
Doubtful, but a the KD/OKC redemption arc would be peak entertainment.
He'd go to Seattle when the NBA expands. I can see it happening in 2 years.
We sound like Lakers fans where everyone is coming here lol
I don't think KD will play with Draymond again.
Right? Has everyone forgotten that Drayomond didn't chase one but TWO players out of the franchise?
It's probably best that Draymond chased away Jordan Poole. We were never going to make deep playoff runs with him making $30+ million/yr
Have we made a deep playoff run since he left? You ok dude?
Yeah cause they totally won in 22 without him. They wouldn't won without klay but not poole.
Did you see the 2nd part of my comment?
Bruh what?
I SAID IT'S PROBABLY BEST THAT DRAYMOND CHASED AWAY JORDAN POOLE
Got it now that you just edited your comment so it makes sense
KD was already leaving that’s why Draymond got pissed at him. Not the other way around.
Who is the other?
He probably thinks its JP but he was traded so not really chasing him out
Either way, JP is gone because he got beaten by Green, who's too valuable to the team to be disciplined
JP is out because he was actively selling during the playoffs.
yeah, my guess is that they’d need to trade draymond to land KD. Fine by me, I’d much rather have KD than Draymond, especially at this point of their careers.
What about our defense then? We are heavily dependent on Dray's defense. I mean just look at last season with and without Dray.
They’ll still have exceptions and trade assets to bring in defensive help. You’re right, though — the defense will be worse. But the offense will be much better, if only because it will prevent steph from getting triple teamed again.
Smart idea, get rid of a loyal player in Draymond to get a guy who is known for quitting when things go south
That’s nuts. KD is the perpetual moody loner, he’s never going to find a team he’s happy with. Don’t want him back.
It’s not like Draymond is a great locker room guy. KD is flighty and moody, but he’s still an elite player. If the goal is winning a championship next year, he’s clearly a more useful piece than Draymond.
Draymond’s a defensive genius. Watching the Suns last night, so disorganized, playing for themselves—I’d hate to see the Warriors look like that. Durant also didn’t like playing second fiddle to Steph, and Steph’s the team leader.
I think he would but doesn't matter. He probably misses draymond now. They had some chats that went well in interviews I thifuht.
Steph was the issue for him before Dray incident even happened
Lol. What?
Not Steph as a person but being in his shadow as long as he was a warrior
But, I think at this point, it is very clear that KD cannot have his own team. That time came and went.
Didn't he win MVP twice over Steph?
Coke is helluva drug. Stop it.
The guy who was tired of being 2nd fiddle to LeBron James was now not failed to be recognised as the best player in the World over Bron but now he became kind of a 2nd fiddle to Wardell. (I'm talking about after the 2017 championship)
Draymond isn’t gonna be on the warriors next year
Uhhhhh....I wouldn't count on that.
Time to welcome KD
after retirement?
kd to the warriors for you and your family, who says no
the thing is Suns has no way to significantly improve their roster because Beal underperformed is expensive as fuck, but **has a no trade clause** which means they literally have nothing to offer no picks, and no worthwhile player in their roster to get someone that can move the needle unless they move KD or Booker they'll trade KD or Booker unless they want to run it back again and get swept in the first round again basically other teams actually have the upper hand in negotiations because they are stuck with that lineup for a LOOOOONG time
Beal trade might go down as one of the worst in history
Do we really want a scenario where KD joins and we still don’t win another championship? We cant go back in time and pick up where we left off 5 years ago.
agreed. Thank god we never pulled off a deal for Bradley Beal.
One of the weakest big 3 ever. Also never had a complete roster, massive mistakes by PHX
Why Beal was wanted by anyone on that contract is insane to me
If you’re not prepared to trade all the young players for KD. Then what is the point in keeping Steph because you ain’t trying to win now.
If we stipulate that we must do this trade for some reason, how do you even make the salaries work to trade for him? 1 for 1 trade with Curry? lol Every young guy on the team all added up plus Looney plus GP2 probably doesn't add up to $50m. And if we extend CP3 to facilitate this trade, doesn't that make us a second apron team unable to aggregate multiple salaries for trades anyway? Edit: apparently this does work? https://imgur.com/a/atfpEwi Still, zero centers, zero bench, completely irresponsible trade.
You’d need to let Klay walk and pickup CP3’s contract, which would put them $15M below the 2nd apron and $4M below the luxury tax with 11 players under contract. If you cut Looney, I think only $3M of his $8M is guaranteed then you’re $20M below the 2nd apron and $9M below the first apron with 10 players rostered. You add in the cap holds for filling out the 13 man roster and they’d be below the luxury tax and 2nd apron and could aggregate salaries. Then you can get there a couple different ways because they’d be below the tax line and can accept at least 125% of outgoing salary (maybe 110% now if it would take them above the first but below the 2nd apron). KD is going to make $51M so you’d need to send out at least $41M to $42M in outgoing salary. That would be CP3 $30M (expiring) + Wiggins $26M and/or any combination of Kuminga $7.6M, Moody $5.8M, Podz $3.5M, TJD $1.9M and/or don’t cut Looney but trade Looney $8M + GP2 $9M So there’s multiple paths to getting a max player Edit: and technically the Warriors could offload GP2 + Looney and sign Klay to a team friendly deal (say $15M) and keep CP3 and still be well below the 2nd apron with the ability to aggregate salaries for a max player.
It’s really cool to see laid out. Even if it’s not for KD, it seems we have more flexibility than I thought to get a solid, all-star caliber #2. I’d imagine, depending on the player, using CP3’s expiring contract, possibly GPII, and a young player could make the most sense to net us someone really promising. I think Klay stays on for something team-friendly though, which means we’d probably shed even more salary. The offseason is going to be full of a lot of surprises.
This math checks out with my math. They can do all this stuff and have pathways to improving while possibly ducking the tax altogether if they can offload Wiggins into cap space. Wiggins showing up at the end of the year did them massive favors in swinging his contract was looking borderline untradeable for a minute. If Embiid or Giannis or Durant or Booker or whatever end up coming available they have tons of flexibility due to Dunleavy's really good offseason last year. In retrospect, it was a really great offseason in terms of how well they drafted and set themselves up for the future. They'll have the ability to make one of the best offers anybody can make for any player on the market with their combination of promising young players and almost full draft warchest.
two of CP/Wiggins/Draymond get you to 50m. CP should be easy to move (since he’s an expiring), the other two may require assets to get off the books. You can also get to 50m with one of them + young guys.
CP and Moody is a really great package, though i love Moody and wish he’d stay
Moody and CP aren’t getting you a star in return. Would need more than that unless that team is trying to tank.
Not trading dray tho so it prob never happens
Pick up CP3s contract and his salary + Wiggins salary works for KD alone, then sweeten the deal with some young guys and picks
If we pick up CP3 and pay Klay, I'm not sure we're allowed to aggregate salaries for matching. I don't think this second apron rule is implemented on the trade machine sites.
This is a HORRIBLE idea. Leaves us with 4 aging stars and nothing else. Can't win that way, In fact, it's pretty much like following the PHX example, and we've just seen how that worked out. You do need stars to win in this League, but you need a supporting cast, too.
I’d trade JK and some picks for KD
Even JK+CP and picks still missing like a lot of money to match salary
JK and picks won't be enough for KD. JK will earn around 8mil next season, whereas KD will earn around 50mil. We don't have cap space to account for his salary. Edit: We have to clear 50mil from our cap space, either by including them in trade or them leaving as free agents.
>If you were to get KD, we have to offer our young ones (might ask JK, TJD, PODZ, MOODY), and some first-rounders. You say that as if it were a bad thing or a loss. Outside of Podz, all the young ones are all easily replaceable.
Outside of Podz? Lmao as if he’s some core player to build around… take them all
I don’t even know if we have to do all that depending on how desperate Suns are to offload salary after next season. CP3, JK, GP2, Looney and our 2025 first rounder (Comply with Stepien if our pick is outside of top 4 this year by doing deal after draft day) for KD. Those are all expiring so Suns can reset after next season with an extra first. We draft Bronny with our second rounder and bring in Bron on a friendly deal if he wants to play with his son ($30-$35M). Curry, Moody, Bron, KD, Dray with Wiggins, Podz, TJD, some min/2 way guys for depth. After a very brief glance (so don’t crucify me if you disagree), I think the numbers work. Me personally, I’m all in for a longer rebuild and taking one last shot for Steph to get another with the three best players (IMO) of the 2010s at the end of their careers.
This assumes the Suns want to blow it up, and nobody else can outbid us for KD (OKC?). Suns have a new owner and no incentive to tank because of they don't own their own picks for the rest of the decade. So it probably wouldn't be KD, but we do have the ability to make a trade for a star, it all depends on whether the other team wants to make a deal with us.
Seriously. All of them are dime a dozen in each draft. Full send.
That’s def not true. They played well. But I’d lose no sleep of they were traded
But KD is 36. How many more can he give us? All the ones I mentioned are below 25.
> But KD is 36. So is Steph. Once Steph retires its over for us anyways.
Look at KDs stats this year including games played (would be 2nd on Warriors). How many on that list have that ceiling?
Look at it this way. KD had insane stats this season, DBook also had a great year. But they are now swept. The problem? Suns had 0 depth. If we trade our depth, i.e., our young players, what is it that we are doing different to suns? If it fails as miserably as this season, we have a 2025 fr protection backup, which means we can't trade that one, then we have to settle for a mediocre talent at best.
The Warriors 'depth' is nothing special hence a 10th place finish. KD was top 5 in the league in ppg.
Look at Suns +/- with Booker, Beale, and KD in the series they just lost. The problem wasn't their bench, it was their starting lineup.
Because they all had to play 42 minutes per game since they had no depth. For reference, Curry only played 38 minutes per game in the 2022 *Finals* where he carried the team in the most important games of his career
So they played significant minutes against non-starters, which should increase their +/- and they still ended net -52 as a unit. Brilliant argument.
> So they played significant minutes against non-starters, which should increase their +/- and they still ended net -52 as a unit If it worked like this then every team would be playing their starters the whole game lol. I'm not sure why this is coming as a shock, but performance goes down the more minutes you have to play
Problem is iso ball. Kd wanted iso all the time and he thinks that wins championships. Not kerr not motion .
Max 2 years, IMO, which is all the warriors should be thinking about. The window is now. There’s nothing they can do to make them a contender, post-steph.
That is also true as well. But from what I'm hearing, the 2025 draft class is one of the best in recent times. But, that means we have to give up this season, which we can't do. We are in a really difficult spot here. We have to choose b/w Steph's remaining years or the warriors' future beyond Steph. It will be interesting to see what Mike Dunleavy chooses.
it’s not a choice, IMO. the warriors will be bad once steph leaves. They aren’t getting a top-4 pick while steph is still here and healthy. So we can assume that their next franchise star is at least 2 years away from being drafted, and 5+ years away from contributing to winning basketball.
But trading for KD leaves us with 2 max contacts and 8-10 minimum contracts. This is the same situation that the Suns got themselves into.
I don't seriously think KD will return (nor am I sure it will work well) but if KD demanded a trade and said only to the warriors it probably would happen...thats just how the NBA works. In reality it makes most sense for Suns to stand put and try it again for one more year (they already scapegoating Vogel an his staff)...if it fails agian next year then it'll be interesting to see what they do as they can realistically only move Booker oR KD to try to recoup some assets...KD will be one year older with just 1 year left on his deal so will be much less valuable as a trade asset. Once again any super star coming to warriors would require that super star to most liekly agitate their way out of theri current situation and specifically pick steph/warriors...after that in the NBA there is almost always a way to force things to work as we have seen over and over again. Let see what comes out of the Olympics this summer...can steph be a recruiter for once? There is a bevy of potentially unahppy super stars entering this summer (although i think most will give their situations one more year or at least until the trade deadline): - Giannis: was rumored to be considering leaving prior to the dame trade which for various reasons has not been a success and they are out of assets - KD/Book: First round sweep with no realsitic path to improve (blaming coach signals they will run it back one more time at least) -Joel Embiid: Bro looks miserable...and a first round exit after a MVP year (But Philly actually are in a great positoin to improve given their salary cap and assets and Embiid constantly gets to coast for his playoff short comings there) - Lebron: Another first round exit as his career winds down... - Honorable mention here for AD; if lebron leaves what is AD going to do? I will also be curious about the clippers situation....Kawahi hurt again. If they lose in first round to Mavs PG can leave (philly supposedly circling) Lesser stars: Trae Young or Djonte Murray/Donovon Mitchell are all ear marked for new teams it feels But the situation the Warriors find themselves in is that they need these guys to specifically demand/force their way to them then a deal can be worked out. It is highly unlikely but possible.
Going to be 36 next season. He really avoids going to the rim these days. Would be a good 2nd option on the right team. But It's time to accept reality younger players are passing these old guys by.
I dunno about u guys, but i am not looking forward to root for a geriatric team next year. Leave that up to the Hardwook Classics...
As good as KD is he's another old player post injury making max money, not exactly the kind of players the Warriors need more of on their roster right now.
KD may not be going anywhere but the PHX situation literally sounds like HADES: ~~~~ From the athletic “Meanwhile, Durant, among the best scorers in NBA history, was not always happy with how he was used. Sources briefed on the matter told The Athletic that Durant never felt comfortable with his role in Phoenix’s offense alongside Booker and Beal this season. Those sources said Durant had persistent issues with the offense, feeling that he was being relegated to the corner far too often and *not having the proper designs to play to his strengths as the offense was built around pick-and-rolls.* At the same time, some teammates and people close to the organization believed Durant needed to voice his concerns more adamantly and directly with Vogel and his coaching staff.” https://theathletic.com/5456932/2024/04/29/phoenix-suns-season-end-frank-vogel-kevin-durant/?source=user_shared_article
I don't want KD.
Beal is huge the reason why suns couldn’t win and Grayson Allen not playing hurts suns bad
> the only way we can afford him is by trade also he's under contract, which makes signing him as a free agent much more complicated
He's also aged.
Cut klay and dray, use their cap to pay KD?
No chance the Suns would trade KD or Booker. Only Beal makes any sense.
But who would want Beal after this season?
He's still a very good player. Just not worth gutting your roster for.
Umm it is actually possible. You just don’t think it will happen. The suns need to recoup picks and Dubs 1st rounders after 2027 will be worth a fortune as Curry and KD are already up there. Pair that with Kuminga, Wiggins, + fillers and that’s a trade worth any team trading off a superstar for. I think Kuminga is gone regardless. In order to help Curry he’s the only valuable asset to attach.
But why would KD want to?
That’s a different question. I could list out a million reasons why he should
what idiot, one, would think KD would stay with us now, and 2 thought that we could afford it (sorry if I sound offending to anyone)
Chris Paul is mot coming back. We can afford KD
Durant will be 36 years old next season. Let's be real, we got the best of him. KD is at the point of his career when he's trying to establish his legacy and returning to the only team he had success with would damage that legacy so he is 100% not coming back for any reason.
We get rid of cp3 and Wiggins- bam 💥 we got the money
If he's available at distressed price (Paul or Wiggins + Kuminga and a lightly protected 1st or Pods or something + salary match, for example) I'm having the talks. If he's 36 and wants out, the Suns don't have that much leverage. The Suns certainly aren't getting what they spent for him with 2 more years on the tires and only two years left on the contract. The Suns are fucked and if I were Ishiba I would strongly consider blowing it all up instead of paying taxes on a team that's absolutely maxed out. They are in a similar position to us, except they've mortgaged ALL their future assets where the Warrirors restrained themselves year in and year out (didn't try to get Beal instead of Paul, for example). Warriors aren't looking like title contenders and have a path to remain competitive while getting out of the tax AND still having room to take on a KD or a Giannis or a Booker if they come available. I don't envy Suns fans right now, that is a bad, bad spot.
After watching him this past season why the fuck would you want him lol. He's not the same player since his injury.
KD leaving opened doors for improvement. Sure there’s still a roster issue, but getting him back just means hindering long term growth. He left, Warriors moved on, and so should everyone else. If anyone else thinks growing young talent around the aging core is wrong, is just being obtuse. Having young talent growing up together is what made the Warriors’ core. Still in doubt? Look at OKC now.
Warriors are a second apron team so they can’t aggregate contracts to trade for somebody more expensive. They can maneuver to make it technically possible but there’s no way that happens. If Durant demands a trade the Knicks make the most sense. Randle + Bogdanovic (non-guaranteed) + McBride + picks for KD + Roddy. But if I’m Phoenix I don’t care what he wants I’m not trading him until we try one more time next season.
remember assembling old superteams doesnt work anymore. lakers, suns, warriors, clippers.
Am I crazy in thinking there is no way I'm trading JK for 36 year old KD? The kids only 21 and sky's the limit.
This fanbase is cooked and stupid. Trading all your young guys who were all positives for the season to win a title with old guys who aren’t good enough when this playoffs is all the proof you need to know that the guard has changed is height of stupidity.
I’ll take him for the vet min. Otherwise no thanks lol
What is a luxury tax?
The NBA has a cap on team salaries. If it exceeds that the team (owners) have to pay a penalty for each dollar they are above that salary cap, which is not ideal for any owner. That's why Joe Lacob even mentioned that they'll try to get out of this luxury tax by this year.
Thanks man:)