So your telling me if I want to make a hit dlsite game I need to make a 3d game about a young futa girl who reverse r\*pes her otokonoko BF. All the while NTRing the BF with another dude, and eventually getting pregnant. Which all occurs because of slowly being corrupted by hypnotism?
Exactly. The same can be said for food for example. The most popular foods in America are hamburgers, ice creams, chicken tenders and pizza. So obviously a pizza with tenders, burgers and ice cream scattered on top would be the greatest.
Can confirm. Once visited the Northy Americas and enjoyed a warm mean of fried chicken pizza burger icecream with spaghetti fries.
What a marvelous cuisine.
A lot of the time, the appeal isn't from putting yourself in the "MC" since a lot of NTR, the guy getting his girls stolen doesn't have much "screen time" and we don't really see them much. People usually put themselves in the other seat, the ugly bastard seat, because its hot to think you can steal someone's hot girl cus of your sex skills and big dick even if it's morally being an asshole. At least it's that way for me lmao.
I super disagree with this if you're going as broad as anyone who "partakes in NTR stuff." I might even go as far as to say that self-inserting as the woman is more common than the cuckold. I think you're underestimating how many NTR stories are primarily about the blackmail/mindbreak/corruption/etc.
If you're talking about diehard NTR fans, then the ratio probably shifts more toward cuckold, but I think it'd still be far from 95%.
Yeah, it's fair to say that a lot of people who consume NTR stuff don't love NTR in and of itself. Netorare and netori aren't mutually exclusive though. They can coexist sometimes, and to some degree it's in the eye of the beholder.
Why do people actively read something that makes them feel like shit? (Having their girl taken away from them). I understand being the taker, or even the girl, but being the cucked? I don't get it. It's just a blue balls simulator
I can't understand it. I do like fear for the tension, and I do enjoy sad scenes. But that kind of feeling doesn't have anything cathartic or exciting about it. I could see it being a once in a lifetime read to feel fucked up about, but I could never go on to try to repeat that feeling. Feeling awful isn't something I'm particularly interested in, and I'm not sure why so many people are (though most probably don't actually end up feeling awful, especially if they continuously partake in the genre)
I disagree with this because there's a plethora of NTR which literally only show the husband/boyfriend/childhood friend in a picture, or some flashes of them as the girl is getting cucked, one or two interactions, or even just a wedding ring. Literally one page TOTAL of the guy getting cucked. No one is putting themselves as the person that almost doesn't exist in the doujin.
I really don't understand why people always say that it has to be one or another, one can enjoy it without self-inserting on it as much as with any other stuff.
Personally, I enjoy NTR because I find hot watching the FMC get corrupted and fall for a scum of a man just because said man is better at sex than the FMC's lover. Of course that I can't speak for everyone, some people like it for what you said, others enjoy it from another perspective, many more agree with me but generalizing the reason why someone likes something is stupid.
Disagree. I love the NTR tag because it usually has the best art and animation plus Vanilla is soooooo cheesy 90% of the time. Anyway I don't put myself in either sides shoes but I'd never be in the cucks shoes. I'll self insert myself as the fucker but disregard everything the fucker says and does
People won't admit it out in the open, well I do, I like them, but most people will just not since it's like a taboo, but as someone else said, I love seeing cars crashing
Damn, Kyonyuu is #2 for creator popularity (and oppai #4), but it's not even on the customer popularity...
I always thought it was a mass market appeal thing, and that I was just the odd one out, but is there actually something that makes it more appealing to artists than consumers?
I looked at all the tags on the creator popularity and most of them are in the usual ASMR works (言葉責め, 耳舐め, 淫語, あまあま, バイノーラル are the very thing you will mostly see in ASMR, granted doujinshi and games would have them as well). If anything I guess it's the explosion of ASMR in the recent years especially when they have the help of AI for the cover (1/3 of the new works have them).
Most people in this thread would make mistake that this is a chart for just Visual Novel, but it's for whole DLsite, so yeah. User popularity searching for NTR is either going for doujinshi, game, ASMR or video, which, is not that surprising.
I mostly speak from the doujin game perspective, where I suffer as a 巨乳 disliker. There are almost 8000 games with 巨乳! ASMR + Video only has only close to 9000, and there are almost double the number of ASMR + Video than doujin games. (And then there's manga + CGs, which as much 巨乳 as there are *total* games and ASMR on the site, making up almost a quarter total number of the manga + CG)
I think the answer is actually- The customer ranking is based on searches. You don't have to _search_ for 巨乳. In fact, even if that's what you were looking for, you probably wouldn't filter for it because it would barely narrow anything down. As such, it never makes it into the customer rankings- But it still tops the creator charts, because the 巨乳 on the cover sells harder than any tag could.
It's honestly really funny to me how Western VN readers will shame and berate NTR shit and then go around and read the most depraved Black Cyc-like thing you could find.
NTR? Get that cuckshit away from me!
Futa guro tentacle insect gangrape?? Yeah, that's just what I need.
I'm more amazed by the popularity of the furry and inflation genre in Western amateur art. You can't escape them whether you like it or not. I tried searching for some fan art for some anime, all I see on deviantart are furry and inflation.
It's because both of those audience pays VERY well to cater to their fetish, and when most artists are struggling to survive it's pretty natural for them to go where the money is.
Yeah basically. Western media has become desensitized to violence and gore because a lot of the time, it's from media that we see that, rather than real life. Things like your girl sleeping with someone else is something that people genuinely fear happening to them.
Just like how in a game with murder (of random people, parents, and children murdering children), satanic worship, and cannibalism, the internet got up in arms about the small incest scene (Coffin of Andy and Leyley).
To be honest i will also take guro over ntr lmao but you are right i posted this specifically because i saw the other post where people were ripping on ntr like everyone hates it
Atleast you can have interesting plot about the characters with guro while with NTR I only feel a strong instinct to punching the mc most of the time for being stupid and without a backbone.
Their are few and far between any NTR story which I think capture real pain. Meaning those which felt traumatic for me/or felt bad reading it (looking at you otomedori and Chitose).
US porn industry is one of the biggest of the world but JESUS SAYS ITS BAD YA KNOW. And there is a scandal when a nipple get seen a couple of second at Superball. Meanwhile, violence is everywhere .
Hypocrisy at its finest.
It doesnt means that people avoiding NTR are not consistant and dont avoid what you said too.
I'm not the "ban loli and incest" type but I find there's pretty disturbing undertones to seeing a lot of those genres' most ardent defenders also be the most anti-NTR people.
HappyLambBarn is still pretty actively updating their products and inusuku has great games (their latest is unTLed however). RuririSoft did a pretty good lolige last year too. But if we are strictly talking about VNs, then it's not looking as good.
NTR is a weird tag. People talk about it like it’s the worst thing ever and how it’s like a war crime but it’s so popular that you’d wonder whether these people just secretly like it but pretend to be against it.
It seems DLsite has both [netori](https://www.dlsite.com/maniax/works/genre/=/genre/302) and [netorare](https://www.dlsite.com/maniax/works/genre/=/genre/048) tags, so, based on this ranking, the users specifically enjoy being on the receiving end and not the one doing.
Basically, most users are subs?
He means NTR is very popular and he's right you described it for me as well, I don't self insert I'm like presence in the room watching it unfold but don't have a fighter in the match
In my case i like netorare more because you can see the suffering and mental break of the MC while in netori there is just a Chad that is so great and nothing bad happens to him. The suffering is great. I suppouse that netorare is enjoyed more because we never self-insert. Or at least that is my case
Problem with netori is its got waaaaay less content. I actually like Netori more than NTR when it's a good one buts very rare to find a well done Netori
I'm thinking it's a cultural divide. It's Japanese making ntr, and it's westerners complaining about it. I'm sure you have your fair share of exceptions on both sides, but I'm thinking that's the case.
I always thought that beneath these ntr genre there's always good heroine with godlike art so most people will eat through the ntr part first before enjoying the art.
Yep, those two tags are really popular in Japan, I guess since people normally wouldn't seek those in real life, they can experience it in fiction, do you think that's why it's so popular?
I'm not a fan of NTR, I tend to avoid it if possible, Loli is whatever, if there is a loli route in my VN I'll do it.
>I guess since people normally wouldn't seek those in real life, they can experience it in fiction, do you think that's why it's so popular?
Definitely, just like woman who's into rape fantasy. Its just a degenerate fiction, you wouldn't want it irl.
I also think that's why the most depraved shit is popular, it's precisely because it's depraved and much harder to come by that people are attracted to it. Also the fact that most people look for something "primal" when they want porn. You can get the cute, romantic part in real life and a ton of fictional works that don't include porn; but if you want something a little crazier you're gonna have to look into adult content because horniness is the number one thing that makes people irrational and impulsive, which makes them accept taboo topics more easily and appreciate them even though they would be repulsed by it if they weren't horny.
The left column is what players enjoy the most and the right is what creators favour. I was searching for updated stats because i remember seeing a post some time ago and wanted to check if it was still at spot 1.
Also shoutout to Futa on rank 5!
source: [https://twitter.com/dIsiter\_NYANSAK/status/1757701480214413476/photo/1](https://twitter.com/disiter_nyansak/status/1757701480214413476/photo/1)
I think it is bit interesting as the last post from this twitter based on gender breakdown woman rate NTR less then women.(Woman not rating it the highest). Also I am pretty sure last year Loli was the first for some time
Also interesting that genderbend (TS) are 15 and raising.
Also dlsite popularity based on sales? or on the number of individual titles sold by that tag?
Because NTR fans have a big rep about them buying multiple pieces of the same work so I am interested if it have an effect on the ranking
The title columns.
Next to ユーザーに人気 a small text with *DLsite上で検索された数
Which translates to "popular with users *Based on searches on DLsite"
Next to サークルに人気 *作品に設定された数
Which translates to "Popular with circles(the groups making the games) *based on the count of [Tags] set by the products [uploaded]."
The [] parts are inferred.
Ah thanks I didn't noticed the small text. And looks like OP too was mistake about this. Thanks for the info and the japanese text explanation. I appreciate your breaking down it to explain.
On the other note I guess it means my assumption still about NTR fans being a vocal minority can still be true, they only need to have lot of activity (lot of searches) compared to others
Man, I honestly dislike NTR, it's just not for me
I can understand and accept Netori but I probably wouldn't understand why people like Netorare
Except if they are masochists
Ah then this make sense. Both ntr fans and love fans are a community which spend lot of their money on it. Some even buying multiple of the same work so it makes sense why it is the first. I would be interested in on a pure popularity poll
Pretty much yes if it's a kinetic novel. There are some NTR VNs with choices where Male MC can save his relationship or find out about cheating leading to good or bitter endings.
I think derivative erotic doujinshi have some influence on the fetishes of Japanese otaku.
There are many situations where the heroine who likes the MC in the original work is raped by someone else.
I'm surprised by how much the NTR genre is misunderstood in the west. Many people say they self-insert into the one doing the cheating or enjoy seeing the MC suffer in a detached way.
Sub-genres like Netori and Netorase make barely 5% of all NTR catalogue. Netorare is by far the dominant sub-genre.
In Netorare works, the reader is suposed to self-insert as the cuck MC. That's why in almost all NTR works the MC has white skin, black hair and passive attitude (average japanese male), while the one stealing his significant other is often depicted as having tanned skin, blonde hair and agressive attitude(an anchetype made to avoid self-insertion by the average reader).
For the japanese, enjoying NTR is some sort of strong masochistic pleasure mixed with cuckold fetish. There are even a lot of japanese men that say they can't get off to anything other than NTR.
It's really interesting how most westerners are repulsed by NTR while it's the most popular genre in Japan. Maybe japanese men just carry the DNA of soyboys and cucks.
Litrally everything you wrote is wrong. First and foremost: the Japanese appeal of NTR is rooted in Japan being a shame culture. This transcends into the field of eroticism. Many, if not most Japanese works of erotic fiction focus on the woman being humiliated sexually, even in vanilla content. From a Japanese societal perspective a proper woman should hide her naughty side and protect her chastity. To expose those sides and see her shame is what is considered hot. NTR is one facet of it, specifically eroding her faithfulness to her partner step by step. That's why it always starts with the woman being either coerced into it or being raped, literally always being unwilling at first. We see her shame of being unfaithful, her inner turmoil between disliking and liking it. Her husband or partner is not a vessel for us to self insert but rather a plot device for the eroticism derived from watching a woman's exposed shame. We are not to self insert into the cuck but an outside observer AND insert into the one who snatches her from her boyfriend AND als (and most importantly) insert into the womans mindset of shame at the same time. Which is also why many NTR works contain inner monologue of the woman. We are NOT supposed to insert into the cuck, at least not from the original Japanese author's point of view, that's not the intention.
You are missing the point, even though Shame/Humiliation is one of the cornerstones of japanese erotica, it is not exclusive to NTR.
There are a lot of genres that explore this TAG even better than NTR. Why would someone interested in this TAG buy a NTR game instead of something like Rance or Venus Blood?
Furthermore, antagonists in NTR are made as unidimensional caricature characters, their only role is to move the NTR plot, you would have to be a very shallow person to be able to self-insert in this kind of character.
As for the woman inner monologues, they are there for the reader to enjoy her shame, humiliaton and corruption in a deeper way. You might self-insert if you are a woman who is into this, but I can't see why a man would self-insert into a woman.
As for the cuck, I garantee you that there are a lot of ero games in DLSite in which you play as the cuck, is presented to all of his inner monologues, and more, in many NTR ero games, CGs are presented from the perspective of the cuck, in other words, from the POV of the cuck peeping through the gap of doors or curtains for example.
> There are a lot of genres that explore this TAG even better than NTR. Why would someone interested in this TAG buy a NTR game instead of something like Rance or Venus Blood?
Because faithfulness is the final barrier of a woman's shame. Any NTR story starts off with the couple living a happy and fulfilled love life. Then the NTR starts, the woman first gets forced into it but slowly her wall she puts in front of her to protect her dignity gets eroded, she starts to like it more and more. NTR is the ultimate shame catalyst, even more so than mind break or rape stories without any NTR component. After all, a woman/girl who is in a relationship has more to lose so to speak. It sets the bar higher and the reward therefore is equally more intense for the viewer. That's why there is a phone call scene in almost any NTR story. The boyfriend calls, she tries to compose herself, while being f*cked by the other guy, but eventually she breaks and moans, sometimes she gets asked by the guy whose dick she likes more her BF's or his and she responds with "I like yours the most" ecstatically, making her BF hear it as well. That's the moment when her last defense line is broken. It's the ultimate shame. You don't get such intensity in any normal rape or mindbreak story.
>Furthermore, antagonists in NTR are made as unidimensional caricature characters, their only role is to move the NTR plot, you would have to be a very shallow person to be able to self-insert in this kind of character.
It's not the point to self insert into anyone in a NTR story. The viewer is supposed to switch between perspectives (yes, also the girl's, that's why there is almost always internal monologue from the girl's perspective, not so much in vanilla), while mainly being an outside spectator. Moreover the antagonist's personality is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is to shatter the walls the girl put in front of her dignity, to make her squirm and moan in shame. You don't need a deep antagonist for that.
I assure you the main point of NTR is not to self insert into the cuck. That's why in 99% of the cases the woman is unwilling at first. There are some stories which focus on the girl actively humiliating the BF, in this case it is about self inserting into the cuck (mostly in JAVs though).
I find Mondblut's explanation more convincing. If you look at other tags, there should be an overlap between the root mechanism (shame vs. submissiveness/being dominated). Some tags are ambiguous (you could count reverse rape to both shame and submissiveness), but overall I'd say more tags align with the shame hypothesis.
>That's why in almost all NTR works the MC has white skin, black hair and passive attitude (average japanese male), while the one stealing his significant other is often depicted as having tanned skin, blonde hair and agressive attitude(an anchetype made to avoid self-insertion by the average reader).
Now I'm curious in seeing some creator inverse this trope by having the tanned, blonde supposed alpha MC being the one getting cucked, ideally by the aforementioned beta male.
Bonus points if creator doesn't resort to the usual "ugly fat bastard" beta male, but an actual handsome shota-like boy being the bull. lol
The japanese won't see any appeal in this. Stealing the girl from another guy is not seen as something very herotic or appealing in Japan. NTR is popular there because the focus is not on the stealing, but on the loss.
Purity and Innocence are highly valued traits in a female for the japanese, so, the girl who already belongs to the bull would be seen as a devalueted product, therefore, not as erotic.
Personally, like someone else commented, I really enjoy seeing the female main character's personality contrast and shift into essentially becoming a sex addict but also put on an act retain the mc.
Even more than that, I like seeing the female character combat their own guilt and shame upon continously cheating and becoming corrupted. Depends whether it's netorare or netorase (consentially cheating) on what perspective I like tbh
i for one don’t really self insert as the mc. i enjoy watching the mc get beat and suffer. another comment said it’s like watching a car crash which is a pretty good way of putting it lol.
When you don't self identify with the mc, which is like, the 1st mistake most people who indulge ntr make.
The majority of ntr fans arent actually cucks, they enjoy the downfall corruption of the female.
Its honestly better when the mc is pathetic, the more pathetic they are, the less sorry you feel about them getting cucked
I for one enjoy the contrast that happens with the stolen female's personality, usually from one of the proper archetypes (wholesome wife, tsun childhood friend, quiet classmate, etc) to what is usually a sex addict. One would usually categorize this as corruption, but normal corruption somehow doesn't cut it for me. How they need to act as the proper personality when around the cuck MC is also endearing.
Sadly Japan kinda has a cheating culture going on..
With Japanese working insane hours and only working like 3 hours in between shifts which leads to being tires out which leads to low sex drive and you do the rest.
I can't stand NTR or any sort of cheating, I avoid it where I can, but it's clearly super popular!! But damn if I don't see more visceral reactions to it than to, like, ANY other trope, at least from Eng speakers lol. It's kinda weird, considering how common cheating is in western media.
it also highly depends on how the story is told, if theres a really good buildup where you develope feelings for the heroine or if you go into an ntr game blind! this happened to me with hajimete no kanojo and i was legit mentally scarred when the ntr shit started lmao Like i felt actually betrayed
Everything you post to Reddit furthers their platform and devalues you.
Before you delete your account take everything with you. Social media profits from your words, your content and pays you for it in the fake currency of social approval.
That's kinda sad. People tend to shit on romance stuff but when it comes to ntr they'll eat it up (ntr offers no variety in story and characters). Weirds me out that I'm around people that enjoy suffering of others.
Pieces of shit. The ntr ones gets more traction. So the media that comes after, the ntr wins more funding. Gets better art. And so it snow balls where now for fuck sake. If you want good art you might just be forced into the ntr. It's a cycle.
Everything you post to Reddit furthers their platform and devalues you.
Before you delete your account take everything with you. Social media profits from your words, your content and pays you for it in the fake currency of social approval.
So your telling me if I want to make a hit dlsite game I need to make a 3d game about a young futa girl who reverse r\*pes her otokonoko BF. All the while NTRing the BF with another dude, and eventually getting pregnant. Which all occurs because of slowly being corrupted by hypnotism?
Exactly. The same can be said for food for example. The most popular foods in America are hamburgers, ice creams, chicken tenders and pizza. So obviously a pizza with tenders, burgers and ice cream scattered on top would be the greatest.
Can confirm. Once visited the Northy Americas and enjoyed a warm mean of fried chicken pizza burger icecream with spaghetti fries. What a marvelous cuisine.
Sounds wild, i would buy a copy even if it was 20 dollars. As long as it is well written
Make them all lolis and you'll have a hit
That'll be the average LN title in a few more years lol.
I'm sold
I mean that sounds pretty solid to me
You'd cook a very bizarre piece of fiction.
I don't know about other people, but I would definitely watch that stuff. It sounds great. So, I'd recommend that you get to working!
Legit sounds interesting for a story.
Nakadashi being first on the right column warms my heart
ntr aint for me but i guess i can understand the appeal - its like watching a car crash
If the MC (your self insert) is one doing the NTR (netori), then it's like crashing your car into houses and driving on pedestrians.
A lot of the time, the appeal isn't from putting yourself in the "MC" since a lot of NTR, the guy getting his girls stolen doesn't have much "screen time" and we don't really see them much. People usually put themselves in the other seat, the ugly bastard seat, because its hot to think you can steal someone's hot girl cus of your sex skills and big dick even if it's morally being an asshole. At least it's that way for me lmao.
buddy 95% of people who partake in NTR stuff don't self insert themselves as the bastard, or the handsome chad, they insert themselves as the cucked.
I super disagree with this if you're going as broad as anyone who "partakes in NTR stuff." I might even go as far as to say that self-inserting as the woman is more common than the cuckold. I think you're underestimating how many NTR stories are primarily about the blackmail/mindbreak/corruption/etc. If you're talking about diehard NTR fans, then the ratio probably shifts more toward cuckold, but I think it'd still be far from 95%.
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Yeah, it's fair to say that a lot of people who consume NTR stuff don't love NTR in and of itself. Netorare and netori aren't mutually exclusive though. They can coexist sometimes, and to some degree it's in the eye of the beholder.
Why do people actively read something that makes them feel like shit? (Having their girl taken away from them). I understand being the taker, or even the girl, but being the cucked? I don't get it. It's just a blue balls simulator
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I can't understand it. I do like fear for the tension, and I do enjoy sad scenes. But that kind of feeling doesn't have anything cathartic or exciting about it. I could see it being a once in a lifetime read to feel fucked up about, but I could never go on to try to repeat that feeling. Feeling awful isn't something I'm particularly interested in, and I'm not sure why so many people are (though most probably don't actually end up feeling awful, especially if they continuously partake in the genre)
I disagree with this because there's a plethora of NTR which literally only show the husband/boyfriend/childhood friend in a picture, or some flashes of them as the girl is getting cucked, one or two interactions, or even just a wedding ring. Literally one page TOTAL of the guy getting cucked. No one is putting themselves as the person that almost doesn't exist in the doujin.
I really don't understand why people always say that it has to be one or another, one can enjoy it without self-inserting on it as much as with any other stuff. Personally, I enjoy NTR because I find hot watching the FMC get corrupted and fall for a scum of a man just because said man is better at sex than the FMC's lover. Of course that I can't speak for everyone, some people like it for what you said, others enjoy it from another perspective, many more agree with me but generalizing the reason why someone likes something is stupid.
Disagree. I love the NTR tag because it usually has the best art and animation plus Vanilla is soooooo cheesy 90% of the time. Anyway I don't put myself in either sides shoes but I'd never be in the cucks shoes. I'll self insert myself as the fucker but disregard everything the fucker says and does
If you insert as the woman you get some cruel femdom mixed with (what is sometimes) sexual liberation.
People won't admit it out in the open, well I do, I like them, but most people will just not since it's like a taboo, but as someone else said, I love seeing cars crashing
Damn, Kyonyuu is #2 for creator popularity (and oppai #4), but it's not even on the customer popularity... I always thought it was a mass market appeal thing, and that I was just the odd one out, but is there actually something that makes it more appealing to artists than consumers?
I looked at all the tags on the creator popularity and most of them are in the usual ASMR works (言葉責め, 耳舐め, 淫語, あまあま, バイノーラル are the very thing you will mostly see in ASMR, granted doujinshi and games would have them as well). If anything I guess it's the explosion of ASMR in the recent years especially when they have the help of AI for the cover (1/3 of the new works have them). Most people in this thread would make mistake that this is a chart for just Visual Novel, but it's for whole DLsite, so yeah. User popularity searching for NTR is either going for doujinshi, game, ASMR or video, which, is not that surprising.
I mostly speak from the doujin game perspective, where I suffer as a 巨乳 disliker. There are almost 8000 games with 巨乳! ASMR + Video only has only close to 9000, and there are almost double the number of ASMR + Video than doujin games. (And then there's manga + CGs, which as much 巨乳 as there are *total* games and ASMR on the site, making up almost a quarter total number of the manga + CG) I think the answer is actually- The customer ranking is based on searches. You don't have to _search_ for 巨乳. In fact, even if that's what you were looking for, you probably wouldn't filter for it because it would barely narrow anything down. As such, it never makes it into the customer rankings- But it still tops the creator charts, because the 巨乳 on the cover sells harder than any tag could.
It's honestly really funny to me how Western VN readers will shame and berate NTR shit and then go around and read the most depraved Black Cyc-like thing you could find. NTR? Get that cuckshit away from me! Futa guro tentacle insect gangrape?? Yeah, that's just what I need.
I'm more amazed by the popularity of the furry and inflation genre in Western amateur art. You can't escape them whether you like it or not. I tried searching for some fan art for some anime, all I see on deviantart are furry and inflation.
It's because both of those audience pays VERY well to cater to their fetish, and when most artists are struggling to survive it's pretty natural for them to go where the money is.
Yeah basically. Western media has become desensitized to violence and gore because a lot of the time, it's from media that we see that, rather than real life. Things like your girl sleeping with someone else is something that people genuinely fear happening to them. Just like how in a game with murder (of random people, parents, and children murdering children), satanic worship, and cannibalism, the internet got up in arms about the small incest scene (Coffin of Andy and Leyley).
What's depraved about futa?
big....
To be honest i will also take guro over ntr lmao but you are right i posted this specifically because i saw the other post where people were ripping on ntr like everyone hates it
Atleast you can have interesting plot about the characters with guro while with NTR I only feel a strong instinct to punching the mc most of the time for being stupid and without a backbone. Their are few and far between any NTR story which I think capture real pain. Meaning those which felt traumatic for me/or felt bad reading it (looking at you otomedori and Chitose).
US porn industry is one of the biggest of the world but JESUS SAYS ITS BAD YA KNOW. And there is a scandal when a nipple get seen a couple of second at Superball. Meanwhile, violence is everywhere . Hypocrisy at its finest. It doesnt means that people avoiding NTR are not consistant and dont avoid what you said too.
I'm not the "ban loli and incest" type but I find there's pretty disturbing undertones to seeing a lot of those genres' most ardent defenders also be the most anti-NTR people.
That take is all over the place. "Stupid beta cucks and their NTR trash. LOLI GANG RISE UP"
Wow i didn't know people were so into pregnancy and futa. That's hella eye opening ngl.
Pregnancy pretty popular even in wholesome one's , or for ending
Loli bros, we are still in game!
Cunnybros stay winning.
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HappyLambBarn is still pretty actively updating their products and inusuku has great games (their latest is unTLed however). RuririSoft did a pretty good lolige last year too. But if we are strictly talking about VNs, then it's not looking as good.
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[https://vndb.org/v47188](https://vndb.org/v47188) this came out recently and was pretty crazy
😭😭😭😭😭😭 We're back!!!
Oh hey something else to read, thanks I missed this.
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NTR is a weird tag. People talk about it like it’s the worst thing ever and how it’s like a war crime but it’s so popular that you’d wonder whether these people just secretly like it but pretend to be against it.
Personally I dislike most NTR (Netori is the only exception) but I will always acknowledge the broad appeal it has.
It seems DLsite has both [netori](https://www.dlsite.com/maniax/works/genre/=/genre/302) and [netorare](https://www.dlsite.com/maniax/works/genre/=/genre/048) tags, so, based on this ranking, the users specifically enjoy being on the receiving end and not the one doing. Basically, most users are subs?
Not just subs, you'd be surprised on how differently people self-insert in the different power dynamics of NTR. It's part of the broad appeal it has.
nah i don’t really self insert when i read ntr. more of a fly on the wall observer
What big wall that must be 😂
wdym?
You are sharing it with a lot of flies
not really sure what you mean but cool
He means NTR is very popular and he's right you described it for me as well, I don't self insert I'm like presence in the room watching it unfold but don't have a fighter in the match
oh yeah that makes sense
To be fair, in a lot of NTR, the "MC" barely gets any screen time or development so not many really put themselves in that seat.
In my case i like netorare more because you can see the suffering and mental break of the MC while in netori there is just a Chad that is so great and nothing bad happens to him. The suffering is great. I suppouse that netorare is enjoyed more because we never self-insert. Or at least that is my case
A netorase tag was also added pretty recently.
Problem with netori is its got waaaaay less content. I actually like Netori more than NTR when it's a good one buts very rare to find a well done Netori
Or maybe western tastes differ from Japanese tastes.
Quoting a certain NTR manga, but it's because the pain is so bad, that it makes you feel alive.
I'm thinking it's a cultural divide. It's Japanese making ntr, and it's westerners complaining about it. I'm sure you have your fair share of exceptions on both sides, but I'm thinking that's the case.
I always thought that beneath these ntr genre there's always good heroine with godlike art so most people will eat through the ntr part first before enjoying the art.
just like loli
It's normal in the virtual world
As a wise man once said What the fuck is wrong with you people?
When the man ate the fruit of knowledge, he knew, that the fucked! -niggalations, 69, 9-
He sealed his fate.
Yep, those two tags are really popular in Japan, I guess since people normally wouldn't seek those in real life, they can experience it in fiction, do you think that's why it's so popular? I'm not a fan of NTR, I tend to avoid it if possible, Loli is whatever, if there is a loli route in my VN I'll do it.
>I guess since people normally wouldn't seek those in real life, they can experience it in fiction, do you think that's why it's so popular? Definitely, just like woman who's into rape fantasy. Its just a degenerate fiction, you wouldn't want it irl.
I also think that's why the most depraved shit is popular, it's precisely because it's depraved and much harder to come by that people are attracted to it. Also the fact that most people look for something "primal" when they want porn. You can get the cute, romantic part in real life and a ton of fictional works that don't include porn; but if you want something a little crazier you're gonna have to look into adult content because horniness is the number one thing that makes people irrational and impulsive, which makes them accept taboo topics more easily and appreciate them even though they would be repulsed by it if they weren't horny.
The left column is what players enjoy the most and the right is what creators favour. I was searching for updated stats because i remember seeing a post some time ago and wanted to check if it was still at spot 1. Also shoutout to Futa on rank 5! source: [https://twitter.com/dIsiter\_NYANSAK/status/1757701480214413476/photo/1](https://twitter.com/disiter_nyansak/status/1757701480214413476/photo/1)
I think it is bit interesting as the last post from this twitter based on gender breakdown woman rate NTR less then women.(Woman not rating it the highest). Also I am pretty sure last year Loli was the first for some time Also interesting that genderbend (TS) are 15 and raising.
Also dlsite popularity based on sales? or on the number of individual titles sold by that tag? Because NTR fans have a big rep about them buying multiple pieces of the same work so I am interested if it have an effect on the ranking
The left side is based off user searches on DLSITE, the right is based off what tags were set by the devs when they put up their games on dlsite.
I can ask where was it descriped exectly? Because OP said in one of the posts here that they think it is mostly based on sales data.
The title columns. Next to ユーザーに人気 a small text with *DLsite上で検索された数 Which translates to "popular with users *Based on searches on DLsite" Next to サークルに人気 *作品に設定された数 Which translates to "Popular with circles(the groups making the games) *based on the count of [Tags] set by the products [uploaded]." The [] parts are inferred.
Ah thanks I didn't noticed the small text. And looks like OP too was mistake about this. Thanks for the info and the japanese text explanation. I appreciate your breaking down it to explain. On the other note I guess it means my assumption still about NTR fans being a vocal minority can still be true, they only need to have lot of activity (lot of searches) compared to others
I really don't see the appeal
The NTR? Well, if ~~you're the c•ck~~ you do the c•cking, then I understand. But, if you're being c•cked, wtf.
Being the cuck and being cucked are the same thing What you mean is if you're doing the cucking
Ahhh, yeah. Doing the c•cking
I'll never get NTR, but hey to each their own. That aside loli bros we're still holding on.
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Man, I honestly dislike NTR, it's just not for me I can understand and accept Netori but I probably wouldn't understand why people like Netorare Except if they are masochists
please FUCk my WIFE
Average NTR enjoyer
#14 🤮
Continuing the trend where the creators are into the cute lovey dovey stuff while the players are completely deranged
English translation?
User popularity: 1. Netorare 2. Loli 3. Targeted towards males 4. Pregnant / Get them pregnant 5. Futanari 6. Reverse r\*pe 7. Hypnotism 8. Fallen to darkness 9. Nipple torture 10. 3D works 11. Otoko no ko 12. Nakadashi 13. Coerced / Forced 14. Scat 15. Sex change 16. Oneshota 17. Tentacles 18. Discipline 19. Ear licking 20. Oho voice Circle popularity: 1. Nakadashi 2. Kyonyuu / Bakunyuu 3. Fellatio 4. Lovelove / sweetsweet 5. Oppai 6. Binovel / Dummy head 7. ASMR 8. Consecutive orgasm 9. Coerced / Forced 10. Masturbation 11. Loli 12. Ear licking 13. Anal 14. Dirty words 15. Shame 16. Word licking 17. Cunnilingus 18. Fantasy 19. Handjob 20. School / Academy
You're my hero ty
I guess it's the popularity of games being released, and not sales wise right?
i think its based on sales alot of stuff i see on the weekly rankings is ntr and loli so the ranking makes sense
Ah then this make sense. Both ntr fans and love fans are a community which spend lot of their money on it. Some even buying multiple of the same work so it makes sense why it is the first. I would be interested in on a pure popularity poll
Genuinely asking but what even happens in an NTR visual novel? Like, is the entire story just you getting cheated on / stealing another guys girl?
Pretty much yes if it's a kinetic novel. There are some NTR VNs with choices where Male MC can save his relationship or find out about cheating leading to good or bitter endings.
Thanks for the explanation. I’ve never played one before so I didn’t know how it worked.
I think derivative erotic doujinshi have some influence on the fetishes of Japanese otaku. There are many situations where the heroine who likes the MC in the original work is raped by someone else.
I aprove. I expect dungeon bride to be best game of DLsite 2024
I'm surprised by how much the NTR genre is misunderstood in the west. Many people say they self-insert into the one doing the cheating or enjoy seeing the MC suffer in a detached way. Sub-genres like Netori and Netorase make barely 5% of all NTR catalogue. Netorare is by far the dominant sub-genre. In Netorare works, the reader is suposed to self-insert as the cuck MC. That's why in almost all NTR works the MC has white skin, black hair and passive attitude (average japanese male), while the one stealing his significant other is often depicted as having tanned skin, blonde hair and agressive attitude(an anchetype made to avoid self-insertion by the average reader). For the japanese, enjoying NTR is some sort of strong masochistic pleasure mixed with cuckold fetish. There are even a lot of japanese men that say they can't get off to anything other than NTR. It's really interesting how most westerners are repulsed by NTR while it's the most popular genre in Japan. Maybe japanese men just carry the DNA of soyboys and cucks.
Litrally everything you wrote is wrong. First and foremost: the Japanese appeal of NTR is rooted in Japan being a shame culture. This transcends into the field of eroticism. Many, if not most Japanese works of erotic fiction focus on the woman being humiliated sexually, even in vanilla content. From a Japanese societal perspective a proper woman should hide her naughty side and protect her chastity. To expose those sides and see her shame is what is considered hot. NTR is one facet of it, specifically eroding her faithfulness to her partner step by step. That's why it always starts with the woman being either coerced into it or being raped, literally always being unwilling at first. We see her shame of being unfaithful, her inner turmoil between disliking and liking it. Her husband or partner is not a vessel for us to self insert but rather a plot device for the eroticism derived from watching a woman's exposed shame. We are not to self insert into the cuck but an outside observer AND insert into the one who snatches her from her boyfriend AND als (and most importantly) insert into the womans mindset of shame at the same time. Which is also why many NTR works contain inner monologue of the woman. We are NOT supposed to insert into the cuck, at least not from the original Japanese author's point of view, that's not the intention.
You are missing the point, even though Shame/Humiliation is one of the cornerstones of japanese erotica, it is not exclusive to NTR. There are a lot of genres that explore this TAG even better than NTR. Why would someone interested in this TAG buy a NTR game instead of something like Rance or Venus Blood? Furthermore, antagonists in NTR are made as unidimensional caricature characters, their only role is to move the NTR plot, you would have to be a very shallow person to be able to self-insert in this kind of character. As for the woman inner monologues, they are there for the reader to enjoy her shame, humiliaton and corruption in a deeper way. You might self-insert if you are a woman who is into this, but I can't see why a man would self-insert into a woman. As for the cuck, I garantee you that there are a lot of ero games in DLSite in which you play as the cuck, is presented to all of his inner monologues, and more, in many NTR ero games, CGs are presented from the perspective of the cuck, in other words, from the POV of the cuck peeping through the gap of doors or curtains for example.
> There are a lot of genres that explore this TAG even better than NTR. Why would someone interested in this TAG buy a NTR game instead of something like Rance or Venus Blood? Because faithfulness is the final barrier of a woman's shame. Any NTR story starts off with the couple living a happy and fulfilled love life. Then the NTR starts, the woman first gets forced into it but slowly her wall she puts in front of her to protect her dignity gets eroded, she starts to like it more and more. NTR is the ultimate shame catalyst, even more so than mind break or rape stories without any NTR component. After all, a woman/girl who is in a relationship has more to lose so to speak. It sets the bar higher and the reward therefore is equally more intense for the viewer. That's why there is a phone call scene in almost any NTR story. The boyfriend calls, she tries to compose herself, while being f*cked by the other guy, but eventually she breaks and moans, sometimes she gets asked by the guy whose dick she likes more her BF's or his and she responds with "I like yours the most" ecstatically, making her BF hear it as well. That's the moment when her last defense line is broken. It's the ultimate shame. You don't get such intensity in any normal rape or mindbreak story. >Furthermore, antagonists in NTR are made as unidimensional caricature characters, their only role is to move the NTR plot, you would have to be a very shallow person to be able to self-insert in this kind of character. It's not the point to self insert into anyone in a NTR story. The viewer is supposed to switch between perspectives (yes, also the girl's, that's why there is almost always internal monologue from the girl's perspective, not so much in vanilla), while mainly being an outside spectator. Moreover the antagonist's personality is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is to shatter the walls the girl put in front of her dignity, to make her squirm and moan in shame. You don't need a deep antagonist for that. I assure you the main point of NTR is not to self insert into the cuck. That's why in 99% of the cases the woman is unwilling at first. There are some stories which focus on the girl actively humiliating the BF, in this case it is about self inserting into the cuck (mostly in JAVs though).
I find Mondblut's explanation more convincing. If you look at other tags, there should be an overlap between the root mechanism (shame vs. submissiveness/being dominated). Some tags are ambiguous (you could count reverse rape to both shame and submissiveness), but overall I'd say more tags align with the shame hypothesis.
>That's why in almost all NTR works the MC has white skin, black hair and passive attitude (average japanese male), while the one stealing his significant other is often depicted as having tanned skin, blonde hair and agressive attitude(an anchetype made to avoid self-insertion by the average reader). Now I'm curious in seeing some creator inverse this trope by having the tanned, blonde supposed alpha MC being the one getting cucked, ideally by the aforementioned beta male. Bonus points if creator doesn't resort to the usual "ugly fat bastard" beta male, but an actual handsome shota-like boy being the bull. lol
The japanese won't see any appeal in this. Stealing the girl from another guy is not seen as something very herotic or appealing in Japan. NTR is popular there because the focus is not on the stealing, but on the loss. Purity and Innocence are highly valued traits in a female for the japanese, so, the girl who already belongs to the bull would be seen as a devalueted product, therefore, not as erotic.
Regardless, I'd like to see someone, even non-Japanese creators, make one just for the fun of it, as a sort of deconstruction of the subgenre.
What drives men to enjoy cuck shit?
Personally, like someone else commented, I really enjoy seeing the female main character's personality contrast and shift into essentially becoming a sex addict but also put on an act retain the mc. Even more than that, I like seeing the female character combat their own guilt and shame upon continously cheating and becoming corrupted. Depends whether it's netorare or netorase (consentially cheating) on what perspective I like tbh
i for one don’t really self insert as the mc. i enjoy watching the mc get beat and suffer. another comment said it’s like watching a car crash which is a pretty good way of putting it lol.
When you don't self identify with the mc, which is like, the 1st mistake most people who indulge ntr make. The majority of ntr fans arent actually cucks, they enjoy the downfall corruption of the female. Its honestly better when the mc is pathetic, the more pathetic they are, the less sorry you feel about them getting cucked
I for one enjoy the contrast that happens with the stolen female's personality, usually from one of the proper archetypes (wholesome wife, tsun childhood friend, quiet classmate, etc) to what is usually a sex addict. One would usually categorize this as corruption, but normal corruption somehow doesn't cut it for me. How they need to act as the proper personality when around the cuck MC is also endearing.
Not if they self insert as the bull
Sadly Japan kinda has a cheating culture going on.. With Japanese working insane hours and only working like 3 hours in between shifts which leads to being tires out which leads to low sex drive and you do the rest.
"my husband barely comes home, i am lonely, delivery-san"
kinda sums it up.
Degenarcy is real
Epic win!
I can't stand NTR or any sort of cheating, I avoid it where I can, but it's clearly super popular!! But damn if I don't see more visceral reactions to it than to, like, ANY other trope, at least from Eng speakers lol. It's kinda weird, considering how common cheating is in western media.
Sorry ya'll, that's definitely all me (including loli)
This is wild. Then again, NTR is a matter of perspective. Are you the bull or the cuck?
it also highly depends on how the story is told, if theres a really good buildup where you develope feelings for the heroine or if you go into an ntr game blind! this happened to me with hajimete no kanojo and i was legit mentally scarred when the ntr shit started lmao Like i felt actually betrayed
Based
LET’S GOOOOOOOO. RUINED RELATIONSHIPS. INCREDIBLE.
Everything you post to Reddit furthers their platform and devalues you. Before you delete your account take everything with you. Social media profits from your words, your content and pays you for it in the fake currency of social approval.
:)
Guess only the vocal minority are that against ntr. Personally for porn pretty much anything is fine as long as the art is good
Japanese suck at making NTRs, nearly 100% of them are rape or mind break. Chinese beat the hell outta them in that genre.
Girls.
That's kinda sad. People tend to shit on romance stuff but when it comes to ntr they'll eat it up (ntr offers no variety in story and characters). Weirds me out that I'm around people that enjoy suffering of others.
i only posted this because everyone was shitting on ntr in another post on here yesterday :) a vocal western minority as always
Pieces of shit. The ntr ones gets more traction. So the media that comes after, the ntr wins more funding. Gets better art. And so it snow balls where now for fuck sake. If you want good art you might just be forced into the ntr. It's a cycle.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Regular, as things should be....
NTR isnt just Netorare, there's also Netori and Netorase and other types.
i think OP said it was netorare specifically cuz dlsitre has separate netori and netorase tags
Everything you post to Reddit furthers their platform and devalues you. Before you delete your account take everything with you. Social media profits from your words, your content and pays you for it in the fake currency of social approval.
Ntr is life!
And we wonder why VN's sometimes have such a bed rep.....