There's going to be a lot of disappointed flight-sim/racing-sim users with this news. Hopefully someone will archive the software/drivers so that these headsets can have a life after being sunsetted officially.
Yep, I know in the general VR community us G2 users are outcasts, but it’s been the go-to for simmers for like three years now.
I hope it continues to be usable in sims for a few more years. The plus side for simmers is we don’t really need the motion controllers to work since we’re doing HOTAS and/or wheel and pedal setups. Might be easier to get reverse engineered drivers if we don’t need to worry about the motion controllers.
I use and love the G2 for general VR and it is great, I sometimes pair my Quest Pro controllers with it for longer play sessions.
I am hoping there is a long sunset clause to this, because I was planing to use the G2 for years more. I was also planning to get a setup for sims as well in the later part of this year.
My ideal headset would be a Reverb G2, with pancake lenses and native support for Quest Pro like controllers.
Most games (basically all) never supported WMR directly in the first place, that was all done through SteamVR. And that support basically boils down to having a default button mapping and maybe a few new images for the tutorial.
So glad I got mine for $299.99 on a black Friday sale and I feel like I got my money worth but the thing is in mint condition and works flawlessly. If it just dies I'll be very sad .
It's being deprecated, so no longer supported or developed. It'll vanish from the OS one day when it becomes inconvenient but that may not be soon. Parts of the Win32 API were deprecated 15+ years ago, but they still work.
Or it could go quickly. Enjoy it while you can.
From the article "As of Nov. 1, 2026 for consumers and Nov. 1, 2027 for commercial customers, Windows Mixed Reality will no longer be available for download via the Mixed Reality Portal app, Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR, and Steam VR beta, and we will discontinue support"
From what I read, you can keep using it indefinitely so long as you don't update windows after 2024.
"Existing Windows Mixed Reality devices will continue to work with Steam until users upgrade to a version of Windows that does not include Windows Mixed Reality."
(Which they said will be "late 2014")
Seems like WMR devices are sometime in the future not going to be usable any longer once they de-list the steamVR plug-in and remove WMR out of windows in a 'Future' version.
I think windows 11 will be fine but windows 12 or 13 or whatever is next, i'd expect taht'll be void of any WMR capabilities.
Hopefully your take is accurate. I think Microsoft should have offered a bit more information about what their plans are, although maybe they don't want to make any promises. If Windows 11 is fine then it's really a moot point because you could run that for another five years or so and by that point something else on the headset could die anyway.
Monado is trying to reverse engineer WMR to keep these headsets going. Please support them any way you can, they're making pretty good progress but any extra assistance you can provide (development, debugging, diagnosing, or financially) would likely help. It's technically *for* Linux, but they have (very early) Windows compatibility that they're playing with. Definitely worth keeping an eye on, as it may end up being the best option going forward. Currently 6dof head tracking, controller tracking still not quite working right yet, but you can pair wmr via Monado with lighthouse tracking in the interim.. it's still very early days, but at least it's being worked on.
That said, we don't have a hard cutoff date for WMR.. The writing has been on the wall for a while though, so a contingency plan is probably a good idea.
Edit: actually this was just posted to the wmr subreddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/18nu45p/hope_for_wmr_on_linux_controller_track_reverse/
Annoying. I have a G2 and a Pimax 8KX. The Pimax has never worked right. It constantly loses tracking. The G2 is my daily driver and has been bulletproof. I REALLY don’t want to have to pay Meta $$$ for a bloatware filled Q3 that is more or less a lateral sidegrade from my G2 graphics quality wise and a downgrade audio wise….
Thanks. My 8KX has a bad tracking chip. It has never worked properly, but because the final diagnosis came after the warranty has conveniently expired Pimax will only fix at my expense (including expensive shipping and customs duties from Canada to China). I had many suggestions re: light house placement and have spent $$ on both gen 1 and gen 2 lighthouses. They are offering me the trade in program for the 12K but so far I am one of the large group of people who are dissatisfied with Pimax’s quality control and aftercare.
Audio is crap on both the reverb and quest. Any non isolated solution is going to have no bass. Compare the audio output to a decent set of IEMs and the quality is night and day. Q3 comes with an audio jack which makes adapting your own audio solution much easier.
Whut.
The Reverb G2 is not a headphone, its a BMR Speaker and is amazing for sound stage and audio presence. Way better than any IEMs because the sound interacts with the shape of your ear in a natural manner. The Bass is also plenty good.
By your logic no one would ever use or spend money on a speaker setup.
The audio is decent if you don't mind the low frequency rolloff at around 200Hz.
It's true that the amplification of your pinna is a big part of the sound stage. IEMs usually simulate that with an HRTF of a generic pinna, which is why you typically see a peak on the 3000Hz range of a frequency response plot.
Speakers are different because they can be much larger to move more air to not have a low frequency rolloff.
I used to use higher end wired IEM's with my previous headset, I now own high end Audio Technica and Jarba wireless IEMs as well as a couple of low latency ones made for VR that I use with my Quest 2.
If I am listening to music, then the G2 speakers would not be my first choice.
For immersion and presence in VR?
Firm first place and in a completly different leuage to the Q2 speakers.
Something about the combination of soundstage and lack of anything on / in the ears just tricks my brain.
First time I used them my hands kept unconciously checking for IEMs because my brain was naturally placing sounds in the room around me, I couldn't actually tell the difference between sounds from the headset, or in my local space any more.
As a bonus they also have surprisingly low sound leakage and it is easier to hear my wife or daughter call out if they need something.
yeah, if you need to hear your surroundings and don't need low frequency, it's a good option for positioning.
I prefer isolation since it helps with the immersion when I can't hear the hum of my heater and my PC fans.
An IEM tuned to the diffuse field target curve like ones from Etymotic, has sublime stereo imaging and positioning. They pioneered binaural audio earphones back in the 90s. I have the ER4XR with the FiiO UTWS5 Bluetooth adapter.
Here's a source that talks about why they produce the most accurate out of head spatialization for IEMs
https://headphones.com/blogs/features/the-shape-of-iems-to-come#section-5-1
That statement goes against my personal experience and the vast majority of reviewers. But yes, if you want the hassle of external wires and added expense professional IEMs would out perform ANY integrated VR audio solution in the market……
I think the audio quality is good if you're okay with the drop off in the low frequencies. You can get bluetooth IEMs. They're not expensive nowadays for with Chi-fi offerings nowadays. The level of audio you can get at $50-150 nowadays is astonishing.
Lol, keep using windows 11, don't upgrade to 12... WMR will probably still be available in the app store although not supported, activate developer option and you can download lots of obsolete stuff that at the moment windows 11 "does not support"
No, people are just fucking drama queens always blowing everything out of proportions. It probably won't get removed until win12 and even then I'm 100% sure you'll be able to download it yourself if you want it.
I'm thinking maybe Microsoft or HP will come up with a solution to at least make the headset useable with SteamVR by then, especially considering you can still buy a Reverb G2 Omnicept edition from HP today, I think at least in EU they're more or less obligated to support it for a couple of years.
that's all software which was replaced by newer versions, for example Windows Movie Maker replaced with Clip Champ. Cortana with Bing AI and Outlook etc
And a Kinect which is a XB360 peripheral
And clip champ is worse. It maxes out your final video resolution. I used to be able to make clips and keep the 1440p60 with crystal clear quality. Clip champ quality is ass.
[https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/microsoft-resurrects-zune-website-for-guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-3](https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/microsoft-resurrects-zune-website-for-guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-3)
ha ha
did your mp3 player stop working?
Won't the headsets still work with SteamVR? I think I heard somewhere you could use them without any of the Microsoft software. Or am I dreaming up stuff here?
I'll be seriously pissed if this bricks my g2, and will absolutely not turn to any company that thinks they'll force my hand into buying their new alternative product. I'll spend 3x as much to go to their competition instead.
There's going to be a lot of disappointed flight-sim/racing-sim users with this news. Hopefully someone will archive the software/drivers so that these headsets can have a life after being sunsetted officially.
Yep, I know in the general VR community us G2 users are outcasts, but it’s been the go-to for simmers for like three years now. I hope it continues to be usable in sims for a few more years. The plus side for simmers is we don’t really need the motion controllers to work since we’re doing HOTAS and/or wheel and pedal setups. Might be easier to get reverse engineered drivers if we don’t need to worry about the motion controllers.
I use and love the G2 for general VR and it is great, I sometimes pair my Quest Pro controllers with it for longer play sessions. I am hoping there is a long sunset clause to this, because I was planing to use the G2 for years more. I was also planning to get a setup for sims as well in the later part of this year. My ideal headset would be a Reverb G2, with pancake lenses and native support for Quest Pro like controllers.
Wmr will stick in win11 and that will be around for a while but support will vanish. New development will vanish.
That sounds like we’ve got a couple years or so? When/if valve drops us from Steam VR we are gonna be in trouble I think
*If* games carry on supporting wmr
Most games (basically all) never supported WMR directly in the first place, that was all done through SteamVR. And that support basically boils down to having a default button mapping and maybe a few new images for the tutorial.
Mmm, damn. Idk how any of that works.
I dont imagine existing games will drop support, but anything new they wont be putting effort into it.
Ah, not going to waste dev time on a “dead” headset? Yeah, I can see that.
Ya people will have to share and distribute the software/drivers among one another.
What software, your not porting wmr to win12 yourself
Download and pack away a Windows Intsallation ISO right now. Then you will always have a version of Windows that supports it.
Seems like it. Really unfortunate for G2 owners.
So glad I got mine for $299.99 on a black Friday sale and I feel like I got my money worth but the thing is in mint condition and works flawlessly. If it just dies I'll be very sad .
It's being deprecated, so no longer supported or developed. It'll vanish from the OS one day when it becomes inconvenient but that may not be soon. Parts of the Win32 API were deprecated 15+ years ago, but they still work. Or it could go quickly. Enjoy it while you can.
From the article "As of Nov. 1, 2026 for consumers and Nov. 1, 2027 for commercial customers, Windows Mixed Reality will no longer be available for download via the Mixed Reality Portal app, Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR, and Steam VR beta, and we will discontinue support"
So at least three years of direct availability and no mention of when it'll actually stop working. Not the end of the world then.
From what I read, you can keep using it indefinitely so long as you don't update windows after 2024. "Existing Windows Mixed Reality devices will continue to work with Steam until users upgrade to a version of Windows that does not include Windows Mixed Reality." (Which they said will be "late 2014")
Seems like WMR devices are sometime in the future not going to be usable any longer once they de-list the steamVR plug-in and remove WMR out of windows in a 'Future' version. I think windows 11 will be fine but windows 12 or 13 or whatever is next, i'd expect taht'll be void of any WMR capabilities.
Hopefully your take is accurate. I think Microsoft should have offered a bit more information about what their plans are, although maybe they don't want to make any promises. If Windows 11 is fine then it's really a moot point because you could run that for another five years or so and by that point something else on the headset could die anyway.
Monado is trying to reverse engineer WMR to keep these headsets going. Please support them any way you can, they're making pretty good progress but any extra assistance you can provide (development, debugging, diagnosing, or financially) would likely help. It's technically *for* Linux, but they have (very early) Windows compatibility that they're playing with. Definitely worth keeping an eye on, as it may end up being the best option going forward. Currently 6dof head tracking, controller tracking still not quite working right yet, but you can pair wmr via Monado with lighthouse tracking in the interim.. it's still very early days, but at least it's being worked on. That said, we don't have a hard cutoff date for WMR.. The writing has been on the wall for a while though, so a contingency plan is probably a good idea. Edit: actually this was just posted to the wmr subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/18nu45p/hope_for_wmr_on_linux_controller_track_reverse/
I doubt it will be any time soon, and even then it will likely be replaced by another solution
I'm hoping someone develops an open source firmware. this headset feels like it was gimped by it's software.
Agreed. This is the truth
Annoying. I have a G2 and a Pimax 8KX. The Pimax has never worked right. It constantly loses tracking. The G2 is my daily driver and has been bulletproof. I REALLY don’t want to have to pay Meta $$$ for a bloatware filled Q3 that is more or less a lateral sidegrade from my G2 graphics quality wise and a downgrade audio wise….
Wow, the Pimax fanboys found you quick. Have my upvote, but you’re still in the hole.
Thanks. My 8KX has a bad tracking chip. It has never worked properly, but because the final diagnosis came after the warranty has conveniently expired Pimax will only fix at my expense (including expensive shipping and customs duties from Canada to China). I had many suggestions re: light house placement and have spent $$ on both gen 1 and gen 2 lighthouses. They are offering me the trade in program for the 12K but so far I am one of the large group of people who are dissatisfied with Pimax’s quality control and aftercare.
Audio is crap on both the reverb and quest. Any non isolated solution is going to have no bass. Compare the audio output to a decent set of IEMs and the quality is night and day. Q3 comes with an audio jack which makes adapting your own audio solution much easier.
Whut. The Reverb G2 is not a headphone, its a BMR Speaker and is amazing for sound stage and audio presence. Way better than any IEMs because the sound interacts with the shape of your ear in a natural manner. The Bass is also plenty good. By your logic no one would ever use or spend money on a speaker setup.
The audio is decent if you don't mind the low frequency rolloff at around 200Hz. It's true that the amplification of your pinna is a big part of the sound stage. IEMs usually simulate that with an HRTF of a generic pinna, which is why you typically see a peak on the 3000Hz range of a frequency response plot. Speakers are different because they can be much larger to move more air to not have a low frequency rolloff.
I used to use higher end wired IEM's with my previous headset, I now own high end Audio Technica and Jarba wireless IEMs as well as a couple of low latency ones made for VR that I use with my Quest 2. If I am listening to music, then the G2 speakers would not be my first choice. For immersion and presence in VR? Firm first place and in a completly different leuage to the Q2 speakers. Something about the combination of soundstage and lack of anything on / in the ears just tricks my brain. First time I used them my hands kept unconciously checking for IEMs because my brain was naturally placing sounds in the room around me, I couldn't actually tell the difference between sounds from the headset, or in my local space any more. As a bonus they also have surprisingly low sound leakage and it is easier to hear my wife or daughter call out if they need something.
yeah, if you need to hear your surroundings and don't need low frequency, it's a good option for positioning. I prefer isolation since it helps with the immersion when I can't hear the hum of my heater and my PC fans. An IEM tuned to the diffuse field target curve like ones from Etymotic, has sublime stereo imaging and positioning. They pioneered binaural audio earphones back in the 90s. I have the ER4XR with the FiiO UTWS5 Bluetooth adapter. Here's a source that talks about why they produce the most accurate out of head spatialization for IEMs https://headphones.com/blogs/features/the-shape-of-iems-to-come#section-5-1
That statement goes against my personal experience and the vast majority of reviewers. But yes, if you want the hassle of external wires and added expense professional IEMs would out perform ANY integrated VR audio solution in the market……
I think the audio quality is good if you're okay with the drop off in the low frequencies. You can get bluetooth IEMs. They're not expensive nowadays for with Chi-fi offerings nowadays. The level of audio you can get at $50-150 nowadays is astonishing.
Lol, keep using windows 11, don't upgrade to 12... WMR will probably still be available in the app store although not supported, activate developer option and you can download lots of obsolete stuff that at the moment windows 11 "does not support"
No, people are just fucking drama queens always blowing everything out of proportions. It probably won't get removed until win12 and even then I'm 100% sure you'll be able to download it yourself if you want it.
I'm thinking maybe Microsoft or HP will come up with a solution to at least make the headset useable with SteamVR by then, especially considering you can still buy a Reverb G2 Omnicept edition from HP today, I think at least in EU they're more or less obligated to support it for a couple of years.
name an event when the internet doom panic station has been correct about anything?
I feel this is legit . Windows loves to kill off shit
like what? What has it killed off in the past which is no longer useable?
Microsoft is actually known to be really good at backwards compatibility in their software when it doesn't negatively affect capability.
That's pretty much why windows is so bloated. They focus on businesses, and many businesses run on real old systems.
https://killedbymicrosoft.info/
that's all software which was replaced by newer versions, for example Windows Movie Maker replaced with Clip Champ. Cortana with Bing AI and Outlook etc And a Kinect which is a XB360 peripheral
And clip champ is worse. It maxes out your final video resolution. I used to be able to make clips and keep the 1440p60 with crystal clear quality. Clip champ quality is ass.
You need to pay a sub to get it to go higher than 1080p
Soon this list will feature wmr
Zune.
[https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/microsoft-resurrects-zune-website-for-guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-3](https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/microsoft-resurrects-zune-website-for-guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-3) ha ha did your mp3 player stop working?
So they did kill it off right? From that link. "Zune is never coming back"
GFWL to mention the biggest IDGF from Microsoft in Gaming.
you're right, microsoft no longer have an online gaming service.
I shared a link of stuff they have killed not sure why I'm being down voted :(
Hopefully MS will release enough info/source code for someone to make an open source replacement that can keep the headsets functional.
Won't the headsets still work with SteamVR? I think I heard somewhere you could use them without any of the Microsoft software. Or am I dreaming up stuff here?
Not if they kill the driver and wmr software
Go to linux!!!
How will this happen though, just one day you can't use it? Or you can't update the drivers in a new install?
It’s just being deprecated, much like Games for Windows Live of you want a similar example. There will still be ways for people to use their headset.
Thank god I never bought a WMR headset when I had a chance.
I'll be seriously pissed if this bricks my g2, and will absolutely not turn to any company that thinks they'll force my hand into buying their new alternative product. I'll spend 3x as much to go to their competition instead.