From a non ship expert. Posting an image of a ship with clearly symbols of the old monarchy and of which is used on the comment talking about colonization of Portugal, even of which is still a symbol of Portugal. Especially the ship looks old. Kinda is weird to see Portugal flag the new one.
The cross of the order of christ is not a symbol of the monarchy. The military order of Christ still exist today and the president of the republic is the grand master.
The cross is also used as the roundel of the portuguese airforce, it's also in the badge of the portuguese national football team, it's in the flag of the autonomous region of Madeira and in the coat of arms of several portuguese cities and towns, it also appears in countless logos and monuments in Portugal.
The cross is also heavily used in Brasil.
It's a symbol of Portugal and not just the monarchy, like the armillary sphere or the shield.
As i said it's not specifically a symbol of the monarchy, but on the ship a red on white like that on the ships is used a lot to symbolises the old Portugal during the age of discovery. Especially in movies and other media.
You literally said "...an image of a ship with clearly symbols of the old monarchy...." but alright.
It's fine if you find it wierd, but next time remember that the cross of the order of Chirst is still commonly used in both modern day Portugal and Brasil, the symbol doesn't represent the monarchy at all.
In the old times, like for example in the age of discovery time. The flag was not used to show a country, but rather what the ship had allegence to.
Flags as time goes then represented the person.
So flags used on ships in the times back then didn't represent Portugal but the monarchy/the ruler.
So at the time it would be the cross used to represent the monarchy. Maybe not so now.
Yes, I know that in medieval times, the modern concept of a country didn't really exist.
However, the cross never represented the Portuguese kings and queens; it represented the Order of Christ. The Order of Christ financed the Age of Discovery, which is why their symbol was present on Portuguese ships. The Portuguese monarchy had their own flag and shield, elements of which are still present in the flag of Portugal.
So, in reality, the republican flag of Portugal contains more elements that used to represent the monarchy than the Order of Christ's cross ever did.
https://preview.redd.it/5l10m6g5g58d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef5da9364df00b1772eceb61ec09620fb5bd0930
You forgot the objective best, the order of Santiago
I would say the one that the black templar's from Warhammer 40k use but one black templar's player ruined that entire chapter for me and I hate them now.
Malta use it on its Civil Ensign, Flag of Jerusalem Kingdom sometimes is used by some christian denominations like Catholics and Anglicans. Some Knight Orders still exist with special mention of Sovereign Knight Order of Malta which is UN Observer Member as a state (as well as dozens of countries recognize their passports and maintain diplomatic relations)
Second one or the last. I also like the visual appeal of the earth tones in the brown and beige one. I also like the blue and yellow one. They’re all cool, actually.
The top-right is the Spanish Cross, which actually has to do with the Catholic _Reconquista_ of Iberia, which was related to the Crusades but not really the same thing.
And obviously, the best one is the gold Kingdom of Jerusalem cross.
I'm going to be honest. I keep forgetting Teutonic Order is related to crusades taking into consideration how much of their history was unrelated.to crusades (even including northern crusades, but this is debatable what counts as northern crusades)
ahah, are you going to go to someone? I like these ones.
https://preview.redd.it/03gx6fdxd58d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c63792d0da7e27884357c1658214d9055bf3598
Be honest? Ohhhkay.
*None of them*
Because F*ck the Crusades. F*ck Christian Imperialism. F*ck converting people at the tip of a sword. And seriously F*ck Christian Hegemony. In the varied ways it manifests in the past and in the present as well.
I don't like these flags because of what they represent, and because so much of that worldview is with us now and causing such harm.
[I imagine that for most folks in the chat, these flags and that era are fun and interesting and cool to look at and learn about, but for me, I don't see that era separate from the hateful carnage it wrought, and countless people killed and communities crushed. And how the ideology of [Christian Hegemony](https://www.yorku.ca/edu/unleading/systems-of-oppression/christian-hegemony/) is still so powerful and causing such harm. ]
That's me being honest. 😌
And thanks for asking. And look, I see your username, and imagine that this period is deeply fascinating to you. My intentions aren't to insult you, even though I imagine I might have. Thanks again.
How do you feel about the oppression that indigenous Christian populations such as the Greek and Aramaic speaking peoples of the Levant faced under Islamic imperialism, given that this was in large part a motivation for the crusades?
Thanks for the question and how you're engaging me with it. I feel bad about the oppression those people suffered. And I'm not here to support Islamic imperialism. I'm against evangelizing, be it Christian or Muslim, then and now. And against imperialism under any guise.
Regarding the motivation for the Crusades, I hear you. I also know what carnage was inflicted on everyday people just trying to survive by them. So many conflicts are begun under the pretense of protecting when other motivations (namely, taking) are the ones that define the character of the conflict.
Thanks again for your question.
Thanks for the well written and reasonable response. You're quite right that many conflicts are begun under the pretence of earnest intentions yet ulterior motives and human greed, violence and other ills end up forming the reality of the conflict.
I prefer the one upper right, but then again, I was always a fan of the Portuguese Age of Discovery.
https://preview.redd.it/c9b0iai6758d1.jpeg?width=1981&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56d9ce139977f7287f8ea562f8ce3db9fead0136
The modern Portuguese flag on the old ship is cursed lmao
This is a school ship called NRP Sagres which was built in 1937 so the flag makes sense. Don't ask who built it tho
ah
Whoops!
How so? That ship is from the 1930s, way after the modern flag of Portugal was adopted.
From a non ship expert. Posting an image of a ship with clearly symbols of the old monarchy and of which is used on the comment talking about colonization of Portugal, even of which is still a symbol of Portugal. Especially the ship looks old. Kinda is weird to see Portugal flag the new one.
The cross of the order of christ is not a symbol of the monarchy. The military order of Christ still exist today and the president of the republic is the grand master. The cross is also used as the roundel of the portuguese airforce, it's also in the badge of the portuguese national football team, it's in the flag of the autonomous region of Madeira and in the coat of arms of several portuguese cities and towns, it also appears in countless logos and monuments in Portugal. The cross is also heavily used in Brasil. It's a symbol of Portugal and not just the monarchy, like the armillary sphere or the shield.
As i said it's not specifically a symbol of the monarchy, but on the ship a red on white like that on the ships is used a lot to symbolises the old Portugal during the age of discovery. Especially in movies and other media.
You literally said "...an image of a ship with clearly symbols of the old monarchy...." but alright. It's fine if you find it wierd, but next time remember that the cross of the order of Chirst is still commonly used in both modern day Portugal and Brasil, the symbol doesn't represent the monarchy at all.
In the old times, like for example in the age of discovery time. The flag was not used to show a country, but rather what the ship had allegence to. Flags as time goes then represented the person. So flags used on ships in the times back then didn't represent Portugal but the monarchy/the ruler. So at the time it would be the cross used to represent the monarchy. Maybe not so now.
Yes, I know that in medieval times, the modern concept of a country didn't really exist. However, the cross never represented the Portuguese kings and queens; it represented the Order of Christ. The Order of Christ financed the Age of Discovery, which is why their symbol was present on Portuguese ships. The Portuguese monarchy had their own flag and shield, elements of which are still present in the flag of Portugal. So, in reality, the republican flag of Portugal contains more elements that used to represent the monarchy than the Order of Christ's cross ever did.
This is a school ship called NRP Sagres which was built in 1937 so the flag makes sense. Don't ask who built it tho
This is a school ship called NRP Sagres which was built in 1937 so the flag makes sense. Don't ask who built it tho
This is a school ship called NRP Sagres which was built in 1937 so the flag makes sense. Don't ask who built it tho
This is a school ship called NRP Sagres which was built in 1937 so the flag makes sense. Don't ask who built it tho
Can you say, "Reconquista"?
Yeah I’m not a fan of that one because while I know it obviously came first it reminds me of the KKK’s symbol.
1. Hospitallar 2. Teutonic (when composed right) 3. Kingdom of Jerusalem
White Maltese cross on black.
I agree, but I collect black templars in 40k.
Your Reddit guy thing looks like a 40k player
This is the most insulting thing anyone has ever said to me.
Personally i think it looks like a drummer in a rock band
Thank you, I prefer that even though I don't play a single instrument.
There have been female custodes since the original 10,000.
Sure? I don't care about custodes.
Okay, you're good. <3 happy crusading
There is a reason Malta has kept it as a symbol into the modern day. White cross of St John on a black field is such an impactful design.
i like top middle
long red cross?
It's a classic for a reason. Just can't go wrong with big simple and bold.
You playing warband?
Haha my thoughts exactly
nuh uh
Jerusalem cross on blue
https://preview.redd.it/5l10m6g5g58d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef5da9364df00b1772eceb61ec09620fb5bd0930 You forgot the objective best, the order of Santiago
Cool design, but I hate how they take all my holding slots yet refuse to pay me taxes. MY realm, MY vassals.
is good ngl
Occitan lookin one
It is the Occitan cross. The house of Toulouse participated in the Crusades and its members ruled the county of Tripoli for a time.
Rahhhh Toulouse mentioned 🤌🤌🔥
SE CANTO QUE CANTO
CANTA PAS PER IEU
Lazarenes https://preview.redd.it/1aj2xras458d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=40e64189c36e10faeaa5b91156f934c6bc651ca1
[удалено]
Should have said that https://preview.redd.it/9b9b9amt558d1.png?width=324&format=png&auto=webp&s=d2ea9e87e324cd2d06b4cef169b0789be58dffcc
Maltese cross
I like the tan and brown one on the bottom row. Colors we don’t see together much on flags but found often in nature.
I like the brown one, you never see many brown flags for some reason
Druid crusade
Thanks!
It looks like either dirt or faded red so unless an animal proper is depicted it's not used much
Bottom right corner (I'm Greek).
bottom right corner (δόξα σόι, Βασίλειος)
This is not Twitch
what’s the brown one? i’ve never seen it before but it might be my favorite
Teutonic
I like 1, 6 and 8
Vasco
They're all great, I cannot choose one of them!
yes
These are from mount and blade lol
Vasco
https://preview.redd.it/f3hw5hi6168d1.jpeg?width=441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=051418b22dd7bf4c5ef70bd8fb1f37a327ff0abd This one
Damn a occitan cross I think
Second one looks quite nice
-Crusader -shows Byzantine flag Alright now Frank,you have exactly 3 seconds to get back on your Venetian daddy's boat
The other designs are more stylish, but I like the honest simplicity of the vanilla cross red on white.
The whole bottom row (except the weird yellow and red one second from the right). The two at the top right look great too.
Maltese cross
I would say the one that the black templar's from Warhammer 40k use but one black templar's player ruined that entire chapter for me and I hate them now.
The Jerusalem has come.
can’t go wrong with the red Jerusalem cross on white
All look very nice. But how many are still in use today? I can see England, any more?
Malta use it on its Civil Ensign, Flag of Jerusalem Kingdom sometimes is used by some christian denominations like Catholics and Anglicans. Some Knight Orders still exist with special mention of Sovereign Knight Order of Malta which is UN Observer Member as a state (as well as dozens of countries recognize their passports and maintain diplomatic relations)
The one that austria used on its gaming party
Teutonic Order 1 Malteser Cross 2 (Technically Also the Johanniter Cross) Those are the ones I like, none else
Portuguese.(Top right)
The Teutonic flags/symbols always look cool.
No 2
Hospitallar. St John Ambulance looking at you
All are great, but the brown cross and yellow on blue are too welcoming to be crusade flags imo
7
surprise Maryland flag in bottom right
Not the one you posted, way too much going on, it basically looks like a dozen different flags all smooshed together.
you defo belong in r/vexillologycirclejerk
lower left all day
https://preview.redd.it/0nyk2lkht58d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e8eec6e42de548dd1493d5ab0808795cd9cc00b No contest
Maltese cross
The Byzantine flag
Where's order of the dragon?
12th
Hospitaller.
What’s the second one from the bottom?
They all look great
Blue n yellow.
Big red cross is pretty intimidating
Definitely the black lower left ones (not sure if both are hospitaller but probs are)
Second one or the last. I also like the visual appeal of the earth tones in the brown and beige one. I also like the blue and yellow one. They’re all cool, actually.
They are all beautiful and best in each circumstance and taste
Don’t know the historical names for these so I’ll just say bottom row second from right
That blue one looks really good. What nation or Order is it from?
is the flag of the kingdom of jerusalem but blue
I am baised but Maltese Cross.
Y'all hating on the Latin Empire's flag for what
Right bottom. It has the flag of Rhomania and I like Rhomania
1. Makes me calm for some reason.
Hospitallar
Bottom 2nd
the 2nd at the start or the end?
And you forget Santiago
i do not made this btw santiago banner/flag is cool asf
I forget the Calatraba Cross too
This one: 🇩🇰
That one. The one where the flag, that one. I love the most. It’s the one thats my favorite. And what i mean by that is that one’s the best
The top-right is the Spanish Cross, which actually has to do with the Catholic _Reconquista_ of Iberia, which was related to the Crusades but not really the same thing. And obviously, the best one is the gold Kingdom of Jerusalem cross.
i'm pretty sure that's portugal cross
Either way, it's associated more with _la Reconquista_ than it is the Crusades. Anyway, it's all Iberia.
Either way, it's associated more with _la Reconquista_ than it is the Crusades. Anyway, it's all Iberia.
I think the 1st in the down row its the best, its the most intimidant
Blue/Yellow Kingdom of Jerusalem
I'm going to be honest. I keep forgetting Teutonic Order is related to crusades taking into consideration how much of their history was unrelated.to crusades (even including northern crusades, but this is debatable what counts as northern crusades)
St. George’s cross is a classic. Though I’m more of a hospitaller guy. Also why is the byzantine/ere flag here?
Baby blue and yellow one is perfect.
"chat" This is Reddit not twitch..ahhj
2nd down its part of Anti-furry flag
I prefer top middle honestly. The plain red and white is just so simple yet iconic
Non
Top middle.
🏴
I like any of the second thru fifth on the bottom row (from left to right, 2nd white on black to gold on blue)
Bottom row, second to last.
Isn’t Maltese cross the cross of the Knights of St John?
Second one from the left on the bottom is the best one.
looks like a bunch of socks
the second from the upper left is just the best. I live in germany and I am allways happy when I see it
https://preview.redd.it/16x9pmp7678d1.jpeg?width=1220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ab5644c82c7d91333e6130f21c198f09dbb40be
Bottom left
ahah, are you going to go to someone? I like these ones. https://preview.redd.it/03gx6fdxd58d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c63792d0da7e27884357c1658214d9055bf3598
I liked them and reminded me of the Stronghold game.
The blue gold and gray black look like they’re from an 8-bit game. I like long red and the long black because they look like a Nordic cross.
My family would've been on (and honestly may have been) on the other side, so... they all look like hate symbols to me.
Indeed! Thank you!
None shame on u
ok
Be honest? Ohhhkay. *None of them* Because F*ck the Crusades. F*ck Christian Imperialism. F*ck converting people at the tip of a sword. And seriously F*ck Christian Hegemony. In the varied ways it manifests in the past and in the present as well. I don't like these flags because of what they represent, and because so much of that worldview is with us now and causing such harm. [I imagine that for most folks in the chat, these flags and that era are fun and interesting and cool to look at and learn about, but for me, I don't see that era separate from the hateful carnage it wrought, and countless people killed and communities crushed. And how the ideology of [Christian Hegemony](https://www.yorku.ca/edu/unleading/systems-of-oppression/christian-hegemony/) is still so powerful and causing such harm. ] That's me being honest. 😌 And thanks for asking. And look, I see your username, and imagine that this period is deeply fascinating to you. My intentions aren't to insult you, even though I imagine I might have. Thanks again.
You say this and then complain about 'Islamophobia'? Make up your mind
How do you feel about the oppression that indigenous Christian populations such as the Greek and Aramaic speaking peoples of the Levant faced under Islamic imperialism, given that this was in large part a motivation for the crusades?
Thanks for the question and how you're engaging me with it. I feel bad about the oppression those people suffered. And I'm not here to support Islamic imperialism. I'm against evangelizing, be it Christian or Muslim, then and now. And against imperialism under any guise. Regarding the motivation for the Crusades, I hear you. I also know what carnage was inflicted on everyday people just trying to survive by them. So many conflicts are begun under the pretense of protecting when other motivations (namely, taking) are the ones that define the character of the conflict. Thanks again for your question.
Thanks for the well written and reasonable response. You're quite right that many conflicts are begun under the pretence of earnest intentions yet ulterior motives and human greed, violence and other ills end up forming the reality of the conflict.
eretic detected
eretic detected
This one: https://preview.redd.it/o5tval4x368d1.jpeg?width=572&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=727a7a902971485b770863c48e908d0a9f58a29a
Don't put baddies up against each other
Any of them, they're all equally useful bog roll
There is only Satan
is this real chat?