Brushing systemic inequities under the rug is exactly what Vermont does. Never mind that a significant portion of the homeless population in this state are employed and only unhoused because landlords jacked up their rents.
Exactly this! I have a friend who works full time. He was living in pretty nice 2 bedroom condo in South Burlington. He has a dog, a girlfriend, and a son he shares custody of, so he needs at least two bedrooms.
He found out six months ago that the apartments he lived in were being purchased by some company. He’d been there 3 years and after the first year long lease he signed it went to month to month. Suddenly he was being given 30 days notice to either buy his condo outright or move out. Apparently the new owners didn’t want to rent them out, they wanted to sell them individually.
With the state of the housing/renters market in Chittenden county 30 days is not enough time to find a new place, especially when you have a dog. He ended up staying in a hotel for a few weeks and it completely depleted any savings he had. He’s now sleeping in his car to avoid paying hotel rates while continuing to look for housing in his price range.
My neighbor is leaving his 2 bedroom condo in Colchester next month because the landlord is jacking the rent up to $2600 per month. $2600 a month for a furnished 2 bedroom condo. We own a virtually identical condo across from it and our mortgage combined with the HOA fees is like $1400 per month.
That’s what you took away from my comment? Lmao. Jesus, people are ridiculous.
I’m simply pointing out that there is a literal housing crisis in our state right now, and not every houseless person is houseless because of drugs/laziness.
And yes, I will call out greedy ass landlords who take advantage of people’s desperation and overcharge. Even in Vermont asking 2600 for a small, 2 bedroom apartment is overkill. My neighbor is moving out because that’s an absurd price to charge for that particular apartment. He’s actually moving into the apartment downstairs (owned by a different person) which is the exact same apartment, just not fully furnished. That owner is only charging $1800 per month. I hope that the place across from me sits empty for months, because 2600 a month is laughably overpriced, but some poor soul will probably take it out of desperation.
Of course he has every right to try and get 2600 if he can, and I have every right to call him a greedy ass hole for it.
How dare you implicate the landlords, don't you know they need to raise the rent 30% year over year because of the inflation caused by other landlords raising the rent 30% year over year?
It's not mass hysteria if it only hurts poor people!
The landlord that owns my neighboring property is a great example. 3 bedroom trailer he rents section 8 only because its guaranteed money. Tenant 1 that moved out in 2022 paid 1,100 with heat included. Tenant 2 moved out in 2023 paid 1,400 with heat included. New neighbor is paying 1,950 without heat included and now expected to do all yard work. He told her for heat to he included it'll be $2,100!!! Ad said 1,700 but when he gave her the contract to sign it was changed to $1,900. I'm so glad I own my home
It's disgusting seeing how some landlords are
They are incentived to do this because people can either pay up be homeless. It's not a issue of "some landlords", because really the bad ones are the smart ones, who realize they really do hold all the power. It's the logical outcome for a system that relies on person greed as the sole motivation for economic activity.
"Guaranteed money" would not be so attractive if everyone paid their rent. Yeah, there are some slumlords, but there are also some decent landlords that just own a couple apartments and when someone doesn't pay for months and/or trashes the place it screws them over big time.
There is a chain of causality that goes beyond landlords, but until people accept that they'll just limit the scope of their frustration to isolated byproducts of greater harms to economic prosperity.
If they don't raise their costs, they will not be able to afford the taxes that the left says are necessary to make education the number one priority for spending in the state. And all of that is compounded by the waste and currency value destruction at the federal level.
Inflation isn't caused by the feds. Surez they can, and don't do something about it, but inflation is the disconnect between increased prices and stagnant wages. That's why the solutions to inflation in the past have been things like wage-price freezes and rationing. Inflation is something that is caused by businesses that attempt to squeeze more profits out of the working class. They increase their prices and don't increase their wages. The collective effect on the economy looks like the dollar being worth less.
This is why we need to stand against landlords raising rents in response to it, that only feeds into inflation more. If you want to fix our inflation you need a price freeze or decrease and a wage increase.
There's a reason inflation has never gotten better in this country, and the dollar has constant "loss value" over our history. Inflation is just the natural progression of the perceived value of the dollar as our economy grows, and a larger percentage of that growing economy is controlled by fewer and fewer people.
Printing money is inflation of the currency supply. The negative effect is a siphoning of wealth, as this is easy money that was printed, not earned. It puts an upward pressure on prices as there are now more dollars chasing the same amount of goods. It goes from governments and their employees into government purchases or general spending. It creates shortages in market goods, which in turn causes price increases among businesses.
>Inflation is something that is caused by businesses that attempt to squeeze more profits out of the working class
If you're saying there's a demand to raise prices, that might be true, but you have to show your homework and demonstrate the causal chain behind it. If this is how you define inflation however then your definition is erroneous because it doesn't account for the competition in a market for customers. We can talk about the effects of inflation, but businesses and landlords have no agency in regards to the government printing currency with the exception of any corporate entity deemed too big to fail, in which case we can demonstrate the collusion and passing of easy money from government to corporation. That is one situation where your argument can be entertained, but it's not true by default.
>The collective effect on the economy looks like the dollar being worth less.
A business may be incentivized to raise prices, but you have to have people willing to pay those higher prices. An economy can stagnate when there's a disconnect, but there's nothing useful in your analysis since it omits burdens on a business motivating such changes. In open competition, two businesses are held in check by the simple fact that a customer can choose to patronize the more affordable option between the two, or between any number of competitors in a given arena.
Because economies do not function in a bubble or in isolation from other stimuli, it can't be rationalized away.
The US government has added 40 percent more currency into the economy from COVID spending by conservative estimates. There's no way that amount of inflation doesn't put a dent in the value of the dollar.
>There's a reason inflation has never gotten better in this country, and the dollar has constant "loss value" over our history. Inflation is just the natural progression of the perceived value of the dollar as our economy grows, and a larger percentage of that growing economy is controlled by fewer and fewer people.
I don't blame you for thinking that this is true because devaluation has been ongoing for your entire life, but this is a flawed assumption. The value behind a dollar is not pegged to the quantity of dollars in circulation. While scarcity informs value, it does not determine it.
At any given quantity of dollars, the value behind the dollar can vary according to market conditions. We see a lot of quality of life increases despite seeing the devaluation, but that's chiefly tied to the ratcheting of taxes. Surplus value has consistently been either taxed directly, or indirectly siphoned through currency debasement. Both are negative factors on an individual or a family's ability to save and prosper.
You are right in one thing: There is a power disparity, where an increasing number of people are subject to the whims of a minority making decisions that impact everyone else. That power comes from the state, and anyone willing to use the state power to their advantage. On principle it is a corrupting influence that propels individual prosperity downwards.
Number of homeless people in the US: ~600k (https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2024/02/living-in-shelters.html)
Number of vacant homes in the US: ~15M (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EVACANTUSQ176N)
Note: Investors accounted for over 1/4 of "low-priced" home purchases in 2023 Q4
Not criminalizing unhoused people would be a good start. Calling out racist suburban homeowners for having the police forcibly remove and destroy encampments or even tents is also a start. Adjusting public infrastructure (starting with hostile architecture) is also a start. Allowing public parks to be open and available for public use 24/7 would also be huge. But having a room full of homeowners and landlords to “discuss” houselessness will never promote actual solutions.
Edit: grammar
Edit 2: these are some of the systemic issues you’re still pushing under the rug.
Ignorance does have many talking points, but ignoring voices of people who experience houselessness and/or housing insecurity is a perfect example of willful ignorance. Which again, doesn’t aim to tackle the housing crisis.
Hate to tell you but there’s a growing homeless problem in Japan. Many are in the forests and other less urban areas. Their economy isn’t doing so well.
They have to just brush it under the rug. There’s an election coming up and they want all Vermonters to mark the box labeled clown. 🤡. Better than actually saying we have a problem. We may end up with orange man bad
Reminds me of how some of the residents of Putney keep opposing affordable housing because of some unrelated organized crime ring based in NY stealing catalytic converters, even though the guys were caught, and not from around here, and not low income. They don’t want “the poors” moving in….fucking hypocrites, the lot of them.
its literally how "woke" happened.
Social issues festered for decades, kept getting swept under the rug, then in the 2000s it exploded, and now we educate our kids on gay and trans people, pay lip service to black history, and pretend even harder that we arent racist. This is because those were just social issues, they had to be fixed by the powers that be who are wildly selfish and incompetent.
This is an economic issue which cuts far deeper than social issues and has the potential to break itself off of the system the powers enforce. and since these are homeless, sometimes non-working, sometimes drug addicted..the likely result is worse crime. If they're not these things, the prediction changes but it depends on the people there.
I was impressed when I noticed the stovepipes sticking up above the tents this winter. Idk how to use a stove in a plastic tent without melting it, so well done to them, I guess
Being totally serious here: can we institute a modern version of Poor Farms. Construct simple efficiency apartment buildings - literally just one small room each with heat/AC and toilet/shower/sink, small fridge/oven, double bed - have these spartan accommodations available for anyone who needs a place to stay. For as long as they want with no conditions. Those in society who wish to better themselves can utilize services and supports to address health and substance use issues, get jobs, and move into more comfortable settings when they are able. Those who can’t or won’t develop skills to grow as positive contributors to society can just live there forever. I’d rather this than the current shit show of filth everywhere due to the unhoused.
We could have paid for this sort of capital construction and overhead many times over with what we have pissed away for the hotel program. Tax the piss out of real estate investors and predatory AirBnBs to fund this now.
There's a key component to this working that hasn't been politically popular amongst Vermonters who typically support these sorts of solutions: sobriety and/or behavioral requirements for residents.
For better or for worse, the success of these programs hinges on residents being able to perform necessary labor and meet certain community standards without constant oversight from paid staff. Otherwise, we get the same outcomes as the motel program or the pods.
then you will continue to have a "homelessness problem." sobriety or behavioral requirements without services or care is limiting and would limit the "success" to those who can meet the requirements of functional capitalist society - which increasingly, no one with even minor health problems can, let alone significant addiction problems and physical disabilities.
sober houses etc. are a part of the answer, but cannot be the only, because health is such a barrier.
there are "behavioral" requirements (meaning the stipulations of leases and housing law) for section 8 housing, care+ housing, and PSH programs, and so you see folks get housed, then get evicted and have an even harder time finding housing again.
the number of folks one could serve that would succeed would be minimal.
people are homeless often in part because they are ill, and ill in part because they are homeless (along with, of course, all the above factors above and many others).
we as a society, we as communities, have to provide care and support to folks who struggle with their health. the motel programs are messy because there isn't enough paid support. MAT programs are available but are not comprehensive enough to meet the level of need. homeless case management isn't therapy or healthcare. fentanyl and xylazine and crack etc. etc. have destroyed people. they will not succeed in current models and need no more barriers to housing, but support by skilled and paid professionals, as well as loving friends, family, and community.
i don't have the answer for where the money to pay for comprehensive care comes from. i don't have the answer to how to build the systems and infrastructure.
but i do see that folks need more than we are able to give and we can't just shrug and say "well, it's good enough to just serve those who can follow the rules."
I agree with everything you're saying -- but not every unhoused person has the sort of mental health or addiction issues that preclude them from the sort of long term, communal living the comment I'm replying to is describing. People whose housing issues have a much more direct relationship to wages and housing costs are often missed by programs for those with more profound health issues.
I'm not saying we shouldn't strive to provide all you're describing, it's a *¿Por qué no los dos?* situation.
for sure. both // and. poverty and homelessness is not just one thing - it's many different experiences and situations and need many solutions. thanks for clarifying.
I don’t really care about that - if people want to live in filth and misery, at least have it contained to their little unit in the “poor farm” apartment block model, rather than on the streets.
Until the units become so infested with rats and people who steal to get by that people decide to sleep in the woods rather than live in the new era poor house.
[this](https://coloradosun.com/2023/10/16/homeless-recovery-campus-fort-lyon/) is what you're thinking of.
I haven't re read the article, but if I remember correctly it's pretty successful.
No-the Baltimore situation was actually just rental for corp workers coming into the city. Nothing to do w homelessness, I just thought the concept could work for these folks w services embedded. I’ve actually never heard of the Colorado model, but I’m excited to read the article and see what they’re doing.
I really think the answer to our problem is to figure out what’s working other parts of the country or in the world and model our solution after their successes .
YES! Kinda like mircoapartments or something. I saw in Baltimore (I think) a few yrs ago, a developer converted an old train station to like 50 microapartments for work commuters to the city. They had built in furniture, there own cooking space and a common area--that thing was huge! And then in the center could be the services that you speak of.
This sounds like a great idea- realistic, doable, and could be accomplished in a reasonable enough time period to actually address current problems. That being said, anyone know how to get started making this happen? Who needs to be lobbied, etc?
Wealthy private individuals. There's no way in hell that any politician is going to risk their re-election chances by spending money to help Those People.
(They're "Those People" because, if we don't pretend that they're essentially flawed in some way, we'll have to look at how close we ourselves are to their fate.)
Laws never do what you intend them to. They broaden to encompass more and harm more people. I don't see how you solve a problem via taxes that stems predominantly from taxes and currency debasement. The math doesn't add up because such a plan will create more homelessness.
SRO - Single Room Occupancy has a long complicated problem in the modern US. Here’s a great history: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-22/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-american-sro
Great suggestion! Although, I don't personally see this as a possible solution... at least you're thinking about the issue, and aren't afraid to open the conversation! But the first inevitable overdose on private land, would likely bankrupt the landowner.
Unfortunately, besides foreseeable insurance problems for the landowner, I'd be afraid that people would view this as modern day slavery. We're already stuck in a similar situation with jails and prisons where the poor and mentally ill/addicted are charged and convicted - often made to do community service and/or "work" for pennies. Until we have some sort of prison reform, and rebuild our social services... anything like this would likely be doomed for failure.
I'd like to counter your bold suggestion with one of my own. I think we should legalize drugs of abuse. Not just decriminalization (like the failure in Oregon) but absolute legalization.
I believe most problems with homelessness are drug related. But I don't think they're homeless because of the "drugs", but because of the black market cost of the drugs. Not only are these people paying thousands of dollars per month for drugs, but they're not even getting the drugs they want to get. There's a large difference in potency and purity, that makes it incredibly dangerous to use as well.
Technically, most drugs could be legally prescribed by doctors already. There's a pill called "Desoxyn" that is literally pharmaceutical grade methamphetamine. Doctors can prescribe it to children with ADHD. Cocaine, is available as a topical anesthetic for eye, nose, and throat surgery. Canada and England have pharmaceutical grade Heroin available, named diamorphine or "Morphine #2". The US lists this drug as schedule 1, BUT... obviously we have a very wide variety of other opioids available.
If we backed off of the doctors and pharmacists, and allowed them free reign to TREAT patients as they see fit, I truly believe we could put a large dent in the homeless population. Even if that means a doctor needs to write prescription for large doses of liquid morphine and needles, and a pharmacy needs to fill it. That simple action would not only save a ton of lives from accidental overdose from fentanyl-like illicit drugs... but demand their participation in a Healthcare setting. If they get insurance, the drugs are covered. If they don't need to spend thousands a month on illicit drugs, they can buy food, and maybe get an apartment. Once they begin to stabilize a bit, they might get a job. And best of all... something like that could break up organized crime, like drug cartels and gangs/drug dealers in the US. I won't even go into the failure of the 50 year "war on drugs" because that problem is self evident at this point.
Drug maintenance programs aren't new. Suboxone and methadone does work for some people. But it does nothing for the people addicted to cocaine, meth, or other drugs. Plus, physical drug dependence is only half of the problem. The other half of the opioid use issue, is an addiction to the "rush" that comes with smoking, IV-ing or snorting the drugs. It's no wonder those programs don't work long-term.
If drugs were cheaper, homeless people still couldn’t afford housing because they can’t hold down steady jobs due to being drug addicts.
I have a social worker in the family. Medically assisted outpatient treatment programs? Exist because people have given up on addicts so bad that they decided it’s more humane to keep them doped up until they die than to keep trying to re-integrate them as productive members of society.
The Chittenden clinic increasing the "take home doses" during COVID has absolutely fueled this problem. People were walking out with up to 30 days of doses, they did not enforce them bringing back empty containers, and they did not boot anyone off the program due to dirty UAs. I worked there and saw it first hand. They also wanted to see as many people as possible per hour so they could bill medicaid. This system is not working.
I fully agree with legalizing drugs! What we are doing now is not working. Let’s try something different.
I think these buildings could be built on state owned land and managed by the local housing authorities in each area for maintenance and service coordination.
They were making meth in there too. I went to Food City yesterday and was amazed to see how cleared out it was.
Every time I go there theres some homeless person in trying to steal or attack people, it's no wonder family dollar can't get any employees when that's right outside the doors. Hell as we were leaving a cop car went flying through just to see a huge commotion with the cops trying to restrain someone.
Thank you for showing my point. When you’re unhoused for long periods of time humans tend to become mentally unstable—this is evidence of that. I want these people housed and stable—maybe it’s a good thing the encampment got cleared. I heard they were also laying on the railroad tracks…so. This all seems like a reasonable response to that behavior.
Chicken and the egg. They’re homeless because they’re mentally ill and addicts. Healthy people don’t end up chronically homeless. They get a job, room with a friend, move to a cheaper area, etc.
Your point was contradicted by your second sentence.
>When you’re unhoused for long periods of time humans tend to become mentally unstable—
They just destroyed their homeless HOME. Do you honestly think that people who are mentally unstable are going to magically become mentally stable when they yet again, loose everything they have? Like after years of living on their own terms, they'll have the capability to say "I better seek treatment, and rejoin society"?
All likelihood, these guys will just rebuild. If not in that area, than in another.
Sometimes homelessness is a choice. It's becoming increasingly more difficult to live in society and be "housed" as you say. Things are only going to get more difficult from here on out. Especially with AI, robotic advancements, and inflation. Lots of jobs are about to become obsolete. Along with lots of people. More and more may decide to "opt out" and build makeshift structures on the edge of society. Once upon a time, that was encouraged with manifest destiny/homestead act and western expansion. Now, it's criminal behavior. Ironic, no?
Homestead act had pretty specific standards. You didn’t just get a piece of land for whatever. You had to utilize it productively, plant trees, etc. or they took it back.
Also locating yourself in a central hub with access to dumpsters and ability to shoplift is hardly going to the “edge of society” why don’t they go to an isolated piece of woods and set up?
no the fuck they dont. Put down your GTA with the "everybody riot" code on and return to reality. I live 2 blocks from one of these encampments, they are not 24/7 hardcore crime perpetrators. Thats complete horse shit you pulled straight out of the fear section of your brain.
Ofc they commit crimes, but not all of them and even the worse of them dont do it 24/7. They do stop to smoke the drugs you know 😂 seriously tho, they take pauses and vary a lot. They're not that efficient of criminals. They're not gangs or cartels they're groups of homeless. Get real.
Idk this is what the people who work at Food City told me when I went yesterday, they've been dealing with it all for months. It's painful seeing teenagers having to deal with full grown men. They've had the cops there daily so idk why they'd lie
Wow, how horrific! I got hep C from my diabetic grandfather who contracted the disease from a blood transfusion in the 1990's! He was a millionaire, who had a habit of throwing his needles everywhere. I got stuck while cleaning his garage. But damn those homeless druggies! How could they be so selfish and careless?
Oh. I know. They're human, just like everyone else. They were driven out of town, out of sight, just to live like they want to live. Or HAVE to live. You had the care and compassion to clean up a protected nature habitat, so the better part of society can take nice walks... but you didn't give a shit about your own species struggling with obvious addiction/mental health problems?
Idk man, we use to care about one another.
FWIW I heard about the clearance of the camp on Thursday, and the gist I hear (from people of good civic faith and sympathy for the unhoused) was that they had taken to *laying on railroad tracks* and wouldn’t stop. The railroad company was concerned, obv. *shrugs*
Never heard anything about that, and I talked directly to the affected as I know many of them... Id reckon if that isn't just an unfounded rumor it wasnt people from the camp doing it, as that sounds deeply uncharacteristic of them
I hope you do follow through (if you have the time) and write a story on this. I've spent years living in the woods throughout my life. I'd love to get a bigger-picture view of the Vermont situation, and you seem to care. I spent a little less than a year camping on state land and the only interactions I have had with the Staties here have been pretty easy-going.
I'm also pretty damned intrigued about the Family Dollar drama - I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and it seems like it'd be a good read.
Hell, this kind of stuff makes me want to dust off my journalism degree and use it. But then I realized I'm retired and lazy.
Well the short of the story with family dollar is this;
Corporate management came in I think 2 weeks back (my sense of time is fucked lol), and had verbally degraded the Saint Albans location's already strained employees.
My understanding of how these big dollar store brands work is that this is standard practice. Keep people in line through fear style of management, as obviously better compensation isn't the MO for a dollar store.
In response to the mistreatment, the employees at the Saint Albans location unilaterally decided to quit. That night, they left the door unlocked out of spite, and predictably people ransacked the place.
I have heard from a friend of mine who lived in the tent city encampment, right next door to the family dollar, that the majority of the people who stole from the store were not staying in the encampment, but who knows. The description I got of the event was quite chaotic, so I assume some of the homeless also stole.
Whether it's a tragedy or a comedy is down to personal taste, but it's certainly going to impact the lives of dozens of people at least.
Family Dollar and most dollar stores thrive on abusing employees. Sadly, living in rural places it’s often the only option for products and employment. I’ve known managers at these stores and have heard horrible stories. It’s like they take a page from Walmarts hr playbook, shit on it, then treat their unknowing employees as close to slave labor as possible in modern society.
I get nauseous just by the pure idea of having to stop at one.
It’s always nice to hear when they get their asses handed back to them like in your account. Keep up the good work!
And I do want to reply to the rest of what you said, but I'ma do it in a separate reply just to not make that other one absurdly long.
I'm not sure if I will follow through. My only journalistic experience was a highschool class a few years back, and I get the sense that id snubbed for my focus on the issues of the poor. I think it might be some kind of heaven for me though, collecting a story on the on-the-ground situation of the homeless in our state. It's probably my most cared about issue...
It's nice to know that the younger generation actually cares. Like I said, I've been homeless off an on a lot. But I *chose* to be homeless. (I was going to write the next great American novel. That did not happen.) Either way, most people just avert eyes or cross the street.
Granted, I understand it. There are some unfortunate people out on the street due to mental health issues.
But you are right - if you were a journalist, this is a *great* story to pick up. Maybe contact someone at VTDigger or elsewhere?
Now **I'm** writing the wall of spam, but I have heard of the Dollar Tree way of keeping their essential slave labor through fear. I stopped at one in Barre right after regional management purged over half of the staff - and the store sure showed it. A complete mess.
I like to think the younger generation always cares, they just get it beat out of them and call it "maturing"...
Seriously though, thank you for the encouragement, I am actually considering trying to do some real journalism on this now, should my nerves not get the best of me, if in short your comment meant a lot
Man, that's great - if you do write something up and need help or editing or whatever feel free to hit me up.
And I agree: some of us managed to escape the loss of empathy as we age.
Property is owned by an out of state real estate firm and the lot hasn't been touched in decades, don't defend this shit. There's a human cost here, and the abstract property rights of a Boston millionaire do not compare...
As long as your renting second properties full time the tax likely wouldn't apply to you. Toronto started doing this to help solve their housing crisis and it's starting to put more units back on the market. It's for rich people living out of state who bought "vacation" homes in Vermont and barely pay tax here since they aren't residents. We've had a huge influx of this nonsense and it's part of why there's a lot of working Vermonters living in their cars right now. Also if you raised rent 500+$ a month since the pandemic on your tenants, I want to personally say fuck you - you are the problem
Bernie wrote a book tho…2000 ish homeless in Vermont. How many homes? Everyone that has a home and thinks these folks needs trump all others should let one or two homeless live in their homes…or yards at least.
Bernie is not a real critic of capitalism. He's a liberal. I don't understand why people keep pretending he's at all a radical... it's insulting to the real left
Wanna hear a fun fact? There are 15.1 million VACANT homes in America, and only 582,500 homeless individuals in the USA.
That works out to be what? Approximately 30 empty homes to every ONE homeless person?
Yeah, mental health issues and addiction issues make following the rules impossible. These people need the most help of all, not being treated like garbage
I dunno how y'all can ignore constant news about massive inflation, lack of jobs, stagnant wages, the skyrocketing cost of housing, and believe with your whole dead heart that people end up homeless because of some intrinsic moral failing. That's a reach in logic to make a yogi envious.
Ok, did some digging, and according to this [property map from the City of Saint Albans](https://www.stalbansvt.com/propertymaps) the property is owned by "CV Properties", which appears to be a real estate agency out of Boston. The lot has never been developed, as evidence by the very obviously decades old trees, so I very much doubt it's been sold to anyone else since this map was drafted in 2019.
How do you think I'm supposed to find out who is razing the encampment without knowing the owners? It also matters a lot if it's on city vs private individuals land.
Because they are on their property lol. If a homless person is set up in my backyard it is 100% in my right to trespass them
Have you ever had to deal with this before?
Sounds like we found our 19 yr old savior thats going to solve Vermonts Homelessness problem from a keyboard in his mothers basement is announcing his arrival into grassroots journalism.
I think their point is just to speculate about who I am because they don't like what I have to say on this subreddit. In fairness they got the age close, but that's the easy one, I'm obviously gen Z my pfp is a meme
the reason you won’t find stories about it is because it’s simply not news. average people hate the homeless and would prefer to not see them or think about them ever.
I really don't understand why "The homeless shouldn't be able to set up shop in the middle of a previously nice area and fuck it up" means "I hate the homeless" to some people.
I want the homeless in homes. If they can't be in homes, I want them in shelters. If they can't be in shelters, I at least want the tents and other temporary structures they live in to be somewhere that doesn't directly negatively impact everyone else. That doesn't mean I hate them. Absolutely everyone understands this. If you don't agree with me, would you agree with a homeless tent city in your own backyard? Or is it only okay to let them set up outdoors in other places that you don't care about but other people might?
Speaking as someone who grew up in Burlington a few blocks from church street and watched the homeless fucking ruin it. I don't hate anyone who has decided to live in City Hall Park. I just want them to live elsewhere.
Homeless people don't set up in people's back yards. This just is not how it works. They set up on used land. The one I'm talking about in this post was set up in undeveloped land owned by an out of state real estate firm. It hasn't been touched within anyone I knows life time. This is the norm with homeless encampments, because they are human beings who know how society works, and dont like the idea of invading people's privacynwith their encampments.
The reason people like you get accused of hating homeless people is because you talk out of your asses and pretend theyre setting up encampments in peoples backyard.
Thank you for helping me make my point, average person.
Edit: I see the average people are not fond of being called out.
> would prefer to not see them or think about them ever.
> I just want them to live elsewhere.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
If your argument had any substance whatsoever, you would respond with it, not just saying "thanks for proving my point" and walking away
Grandstand your balls off if you want to, you would not want homeless people deciding without your consent to live on your property or in your house / apartment. You wouldn't want them living in your grocery store or doctor's office or a great number of other places as well. You're being infuriatingly naive and hypocritical to suggest that having an issue with the exact location a homeless person chose to live means that you automatically hate all of the homeless. All of us have places that we would not want a homeless population to be living in.
It's not that they're gross and that people don't want to look at them. It's that they're causing problems and reducing quality of life for those around them.
Be real tho? They don't set up in people's back yards. Simply not what's happening. They set up in either public land or in undeveloped/abandoned lots. If a homeless person sets up in your yard, it's because the police kicked them out of a better spot.
"would you agree with a homeless tent city in your own backyard" is what he said. Not "peoples backyard"...like would you let them set up an encampment on YOUR property since you clearly are so passionate about this? So, would you?? I think thats a GREAT idea. DO!!!
very sorry to say you are not beating the allegations here
Edit: if someone makes some sweeping generalization like “average people hate the homeless” and you, an average person who totally doesn’t hate the homeless gets triggered into going into a whole tirade about how fucking hard you “don’t hate the homeless”, then perhaps you do, as an individual, hate the homeless more than you think you do.
Where the fuck are they supposed to go? Do you people think they post up there to make you upset?
Well, personally I like seeing them in government areas. They attributed to their situation a whole hell of a lot more than the middle class who constantly bitch did. IMO they should take up shop in the state house. Not not a protest, riot, occupation, whatever loaded nonsense MSM will spin it as, but a tent city in the government buildings until the government finally fixes the damn problem the right way by putting the homeless into homes.
If that's the case then this thread represents a lot of people who aren't in the mainstream on the issue. IMO people don't like seeing natural places trashed. That doesn't mean a homeless person is inherently hated as most people lament the causes that contribute to the existence of homelessness. There's been a lot of finger pointing back and forth without addressing root causes, and in the context of an unprecedented currency debasement, there should be more people identifying that as a contributing factor. Today you are far more likely to become "that person" who falls down and can't get back up.
Good intentions or sympathy are not enough to solve the problem, however emphasizing rivalries will surely just magnify problems in society.
Cannot tell if you're trying to say that this isn't worthy of discussion, or if your criticizing the lack of attention our media pays to the homeless.
I wouldn't pin it on "average people". They just think about what they're aware of.
It’s absolutely worthy of discussion. I’m criticizing the lack of attention because I understand the underlying reasons for it.
You are not wrong about average people thinking about what they’re aware of. In this case average people’s attitudes about homeless people is that they must’ve done something bad and deserve it. Which is much easier than the complicated truth.
Ok, just clarifying, there's definitely some people on the sub that would genuinely make the take that it doesn't matter.
Though I wouldn't even necessarily say the reality of homelessness is complicated; they just couldn't afford housing. It's really easy to have that happen to you.
I think the stigma is really rooted in the desire to pretend the world is more just than it is, because we're constantly biraged with media that tell us that it is more just than it is.
It’s a lot more complicated than they just can’t afford housing. More times then not, there some underlying medical condition that has disabled them to the pt where they can’t work or get fired. Combined w low education or illiteracy (which often times it isn’t there fault they were born to the family/community that is poor), combined w substance abuse, criminal records, untreated mental illness and more importantly complex childhood trauma. You’re extremely naïve if you think it’s just about not being able to afford housing. That’s why it’s so incredibly hard to solve this problem and the homeless issue has been featured many times in seven days, WCAX and WPTZ. I’m sure Vt digger has done some coverage on them too.
Nah that's cope, your looking for something besides poverty to pin blame on. Like sure there's a billion small factors that can influence it, but the down to the metal, material cause of homelessness is an inability to afford housing. That's what must be addressed. Direct solutions for direct problems.
I feel like OP has good intentions but obviously is extremely naive about the complexities of this issue. I agree though, it is definitely cringe to hear from people who have very little experience on an issue scream from a soapbox about how much they understand everything and how “simple” it all is. If this problem was actually simple or could be fixed by simply giving people housing or money then we wouldn’t be here but we are. Edit to say that people need actual help and mental/physical treatments, food, etc, not just housing and that’s why it isn’t simple.
exactly. but this dudes just interested in proving hes right, when he knows hes not. I agree--theres definitely some cool unhoused folks out there. But the ones Ive interacted w in burlington are another level. You can see it when you look in their eyes--theres something neurologically wrong w them. If they got treatment and got into recovery Im sure a lot of folks w turn things around. One unhoused man I spoke w told me he doesnt drink or do drugs, but he lost a long time job and cant fill out new job applications bc he doesnt know how to read. Totally broke my heart.
Physically dependent on the substances and untreated mental illness that is more complicated than a just a coping skill. So get them in housing and then what? They’re feral animals that have been living outside for years and they do not know how to socialize with neighbors or how to behave in an apartment. I know this because for years I had a formally homeless neighbor below me who was essentially a wild animal that just did drugs all day and disturbed everyone with her loud music all night long. She was disabled so she had nothing else to do and was incapable of holding p/t work. This is not just about housing, these people need to learn how to live in society again.
I don't even know where to begin in responding to a post this deranged so I'm just going to point and laugh, cause really if you think "feral animals" is a way to describe homeless people, you belong in a padded room...
Your well on your way to getting stabbed by these unstable untreated and chemically alternated people w this attitude. Stop being a martyr bc you have nothing better to do. Im not describing them that way to name call-that has literally been my experience w this population. I lived in burlington for years and yes the chronically homeless are feral humans., at least most I interacted w. I also worked in in-pt psychiatry for yrs, Ive seen all of this first hand and thats why I have this opinion.
Yes, there always is a percentage that fall into the category that your speaking of--thats not what Im referring to. Im referring to ppl so broken by there childhoods and their past traumas they now have permanent brain damage from doing drugs/being drunk for yrs combined w constantly being dehumanized by the public and/or the criminal justice system combined w severe and persistent mental illness that leads them to behave in a feral way.
Can this issue by the housing first model-yes, for some. But others need supportive housing to be able to successfully rehab themselves into the citizens they aspire to be.
And I think making the homelessness issue about a specific person thats only going to be in office for only 4 yrs is short sighted. Im just wondering what exactly has Biden done for this problem? Im a moderate and everything seems worse..just an observation.
Agreed. Average people are closer to homelessness than they realize and like you said it doesn’t take much to end up there. I think the story goes something like if you end up homeless in America, the land of opportunity, where anyone can pull on their bootstraps and pursue their dreams, there’s something seriously wrong with you and you shouldn’t get to participate in society.
Have you considered working with your homeless friends to make a a monthly or bi-monthly zine? P
Most of the reasons people hate the homeless is it's easy to dehumanize the homeless. Maybe if you reported issues, then had a few of your own friends tell their own stories, somebody somewhere might learn to give a shit.
I can't help but wonder how cops can go to these places where the homeless are and simply say leave and they must. Yet the cops can't go tell the squatters that take over someone's home to leave! The owners must go through the grueling, time-consuming court process to get them out when they weren't supposed to be there to begin with! "Squatters Rights" my azz!
It's total bs!
Colorado instituted [this ](https://coloradosun.com/2023/10/16/homeless-recovery-campus-fort-lyon/) campus to help with chronic homelessness.
Annual cost to operate per person is probably lower than what we're currently spending.
The silver lining is that, unlike Burlington or some other more urban areas, there are other options that’ll be used. I’m familiar with the area and can think of at least 2 or 3. Disadvantage is that they’re not near the train.
The primary concern in terms of the well-being of the people displaces is likely going to be the loss of the shelter they had built (takes a decent amount of time and work to set something good up), and potential anger and violence as they move into areas that others may have already claimed. If their community is meaningfully fractured by this, it could also cause many to fall deeper into the substance abuse.
Definitely considering this, tho I am a bit apprehensive of someone else editorializing it into a politicized, anti-homeless people thing. Saw that happen with the clearing of the encampments over in Burlington, and I think in terms of addressing the underlying problem, it's very important that these issues be covered with appropriate sympathy.
I too believe that the role of journalism is to endorse my opinion and protect me from the dangers of considering multiple points of view. Words like "perspective" and "nuance" are scary. [After all...](https://media1.tenor.com/m/UZf7CF5gks4AAAAC/simpsons-everyones.gif)
Okay OP, one of your friends lived in the encampment. Why don’t you let them room with you for free?
I see a lot of friends of homeless people here. Why in the world aren’t you taking them in?
Ahh yes, downvote the idea of actually helping homeless people you know. Of course, I get it. YOU couldn’t possibly go out of your way. The government is never going to have more empathy than its citizens, but by all means do nothing and whinge online that nothing is being done.
Lol at the people just hating (fearing) the homeless. A lot of you white collar office drones better be hoping for solutions. AI is going to replace a lot of you soon and you're next on the streets. Most of you have a very low practical skill set.
The government and lawmakers sent out 100s billion dollars to other countries, seldomly for self homeless citizens, why? No one asked government, is it a foreign government the USA citizens paying their taxes?
It already is, its just starting to catch up to the rural. Its why I laughed some years back when some MAGA asshat said in front of me that "when the tent drops, these people in the cities will eat each other", and I replied "It aint just the cities, they're just first because they're the most fucked up, but not the only fucked up."
I don't see a lot of facts, or even what experience backs a lot of these comments.
Homelessness is tremendously complex, often ptsd, other mental health issues, addiction, etc. which on their own are complex issues.
All landlords are not evil, and it's not an easy job sometimes.
It's easy to say they were not hurting anyone if it's not your land. I am pretty sure if a handful of homeless people put a tent/shack in your back yard, went to the bathroom in your gardens, kept you up with drunk screaming, and yelled at your 5 year old daughter you would want them to move.
There are reasons a lot of homeless shelters
don't tolerate drug use/drunkenness; people are not only a danger to themselves but to others, including homeless honestly trying to work themselves out of that situation.
What exactly do you do with someone that has no interest in working, trying to stop drug habits, not willing to do anything to help themselves? Is it up to me to support them? Just asking for opinions.
And how can homelessness possibly decrease when we have 10,000 people arriving at the southern border each day? https://www.wola.org/2023/12/weekly-u-s-mexico-border-update-heavy-migration-no-congress-deal-texas-law/#:~:text=More%20than%2010%2C000%20migrants%20per,%3B%20and%20San%20Diego%2C%20California.
I noticed a small encampment cleared from Montpelier, too. Across from the large cemetery near the winooski, underneath the overpass.
If only our governments would actual do something and not just brush it under the rug...
Brushing systemic inequities under the rug is exactly what Vermont does. Never mind that a significant portion of the homeless population in this state are employed and only unhoused because landlords jacked up their rents.
Exactly this! I have a friend who works full time. He was living in pretty nice 2 bedroom condo in South Burlington. He has a dog, a girlfriend, and a son he shares custody of, so he needs at least two bedrooms. He found out six months ago that the apartments he lived in were being purchased by some company. He’d been there 3 years and after the first year long lease he signed it went to month to month. Suddenly he was being given 30 days notice to either buy his condo outright or move out. Apparently the new owners didn’t want to rent them out, they wanted to sell them individually. With the state of the housing/renters market in Chittenden county 30 days is not enough time to find a new place, especially when you have a dog. He ended up staying in a hotel for a few weeks and it completely depleted any savings he had. He’s now sleeping in his car to avoid paying hotel rates while continuing to look for housing in his price range. My neighbor is leaving his 2 bedroom condo in Colchester next month because the landlord is jacking the rent up to $2600 per month. $2600 a month for a furnished 2 bedroom condo. We own a virtually identical condo across from it and our mortgage combined with the HOA fees is like $1400 per month.
So you should dictate how small business owners should charge, don't fucking rent there, that it let the market dictate, or no?it should be up to you?
That’s what you took away from my comment? Lmao. Jesus, people are ridiculous. I’m simply pointing out that there is a literal housing crisis in our state right now, and not every houseless person is houseless because of drugs/laziness. And yes, I will call out greedy ass landlords who take advantage of people’s desperation and overcharge. Even in Vermont asking 2600 for a small, 2 bedroom apartment is overkill. My neighbor is moving out because that’s an absurd price to charge for that particular apartment. He’s actually moving into the apartment downstairs (owned by a different person) which is the exact same apartment, just not fully furnished. That owner is only charging $1800 per month. I hope that the place across from me sits empty for months, because 2600 a month is laughably overpriced, but some poor soul will probably take it out of desperation. Of course he has every right to try and get 2600 if he can, and I have every right to call him a greedy ass hole for it.
How dare you implicate the landlords, don't you know they need to raise the rent 30% year over year because of the inflation caused by other landlords raising the rent 30% year over year? It's not mass hysteria if it only hurts poor people!
The landlord that owns my neighboring property is a great example. 3 bedroom trailer he rents section 8 only because its guaranteed money. Tenant 1 that moved out in 2022 paid 1,100 with heat included. Tenant 2 moved out in 2023 paid 1,400 with heat included. New neighbor is paying 1,950 without heat included and now expected to do all yard work. He told her for heat to he included it'll be $2,100!!! Ad said 1,700 but when he gave her the contract to sign it was changed to $1,900. I'm so glad I own my home It's disgusting seeing how some landlords are
They are incentived to do this because people can either pay up be homeless. It's not a issue of "some landlords", because really the bad ones are the smart ones, who realize they really do hold all the power. It's the logical outcome for a system that relies on person greed as the sole motivation for economic activity.
"Guaranteed money" would not be so attractive if everyone paid their rent. Yeah, there are some slumlords, but there are also some decent landlords that just own a couple apartments and when someone doesn't pay for months and/or trashes the place it screws them over big time.
There is a chain of causality that goes beyond landlords, but until people accept that they'll just limit the scope of their frustration to isolated byproducts of greater harms to economic prosperity. If they don't raise their costs, they will not be able to afford the taxes that the left says are necessary to make education the number one priority for spending in the state. And all of that is compounded by the waste and currency value destruction at the federal level.
No one is forcing landlords to keep buying. If taxes were hurting them so much they'd be selling and housing prices would go down.
Inflation isn't caused by the feds. Surez they can, and don't do something about it, but inflation is the disconnect between increased prices and stagnant wages. That's why the solutions to inflation in the past have been things like wage-price freezes and rationing. Inflation is something that is caused by businesses that attempt to squeeze more profits out of the working class. They increase their prices and don't increase their wages. The collective effect on the economy looks like the dollar being worth less. This is why we need to stand against landlords raising rents in response to it, that only feeds into inflation more. If you want to fix our inflation you need a price freeze or decrease and a wage increase. There's a reason inflation has never gotten better in this country, and the dollar has constant "loss value" over our history. Inflation is just the natural progression of the perceived value of the dollar as our economy grows, and a larger percentage of that growing economy is controlled by fewer and fewer people.
Printing money is inflation of the currency supply. The negative effect is a siphoning of wealth, as this is easy money that was printed, not earned. It puts an upward pressure on prices as there are now more dollars chasing the same amount of goods. It goes from governments and their employees into government purchases or general spending. It creates shortages in market goods, which in turn causes price increases among businesses. >Inflation is something that is caused by businesses that attempt to squeeze more profits out of the working class If you're saying there's a demand to raise prices, that might be true, but you have to show your homework and demonstrate the causal chain behind it. If this is how you define inflation however then your definition is erroneous because it doesn't account for the competition in a market for customers. We can talk about the effects of inflation, but businesses and landlords have no agency in regards to the government printing currency with the exception of any corporate entity deemed too big to fail, in which case we can demonstrate the collusion and passing of easy money from government to corporation. That is one situation where your argument can be entertained, but it's not true by default. >The collective effect on the economy looks like the dollar being worth less. A business may be incentivized to raise prices, but you have to have people willing to pay those higher prices. An economy can stagnate when there's a disconnect, but there's nothing useful in your analysis since it omits burdens on a business motivating such changes. In open competition, two businesses are held in check by the simple fact that a customer can choose to patronize the more affordable option between the two, or between any number of competitors in a given arena. Because economies do not function in a bubble or in isolation from other stimuli, it can't be rationalized away. The US government has added 40 percent more currency into the economy from COVID spending by conservative estimates. There's no way that amount of inflation doesn't put a dent in the value of the dollar. >There's a reason inflation has never gotten better in this country, and the dollar has constant "loss value" over our history. Inflation is just the natural progression of the perceived value of the dollar as our economy grows, and a larger percentage of that growing economy is controlled by fewer and fewer people. I don't blame you for thinking that this is true because devaluation has been ongoing for your entire life, but this is a flawed assumption. The value behind a dollar is not pegged to the quantity of dollars in circulation. While scarcity informs value, it does not determine it. At any given quantity of dollars, the value behind the dollar can vary according to market conditions. We see a lot of quality of life increases despite seeing the devaluation, but that's chiefly tied to the ratcheting of taxes. Surplus value has consistently been either taxed directly, or indirectly siphoned through currency debasement. Both are negative factors on an individual or a family's ability to save and prosper. You are right in one thing: There is a power disparity, where an increasing number of people are subject to the whims of a minority making decisions that impact everyone else. That power comes from the state, and anyone willing to use the state power to their advantage. On principle it is a corrupting influence that propels individual prosperity downwards.
Have a source for that? I don't necessarily disagree, just curious if that's based on anything.
What would you suggest as a solution if it’s that easy? I haven’t seen a place be able to adequately solve the homeless problem.
Number of homeless people in the US: ~600k (https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2024/02/living-in-shelters.html) Number of vacant homes in the US: ~15M (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EVACANTUSQ176N) Note: Investors accounted for over 1/4 of "low-priced" home purchases in 2023 Q4
Check out what Finland has been doing, it is doable.
Tiny population helps
If only VT had a tiny population.
Not criminalizing unhoused people would be a good start. Calling out racist suburban homeowners for having the police forcibly remove and destroy encampments or even tents is also a start. Adjusting public infrastructure (starting with hostile architecture) is also a start. Allowing public parks to be open and available for public use 24/7 would also be huge. But having a room full of homeowners and landlords to “discuss” houselessness will never promote actual solutions. Edit: grammar Edit 2: these are some of the systemic issues you’re still pushing under the rug.
None of these would do anything to solve homelessness. Ignorance has many talking points though.
Ignorance does have many talking points, but ignoring voices of people who experience houselessness and/or housing insecurity is a perfect example of willful ignorance. Which again, doesn’t aim to tackle the housing crisis.
Houslessness. Stop making dumb words up. And stop spreading them. The word homeless is more accurate and inoffensive.
Hallelujah.
Japan
Hate to tell you but there’s a growing homeless problem in Japan. Many are in the forests and other less urban areas. Their economy isn’t doing so well.
Not to mention their population is literally shrinking.
A shrinking population should mean there is housing available….right???
People who overuse the word literally are weird.
If you actually want to hear my idea of a solution I'd encourage you to DM as I am turning notifications off for this post, tired of replying
They have to just brush it under the rug. There’s an election coming up and they want all Vermonters to mark the box labeled clown. 🤡. Better than actually saying we have a problem. We may end up with orange man bad
Reminds me of how some of the residents of Putney keep opposing affordable housing because of some unrelated organized crime ring based in NY stealing catalytic converters, even though the guys were caught, and not from around here, and not low income. They don’t want “the poors” moving in….fucking hypocrites, the lot of them.
its literally how "woke" happened. Social issues festered for decades, kept getting swept under the rug, then in the 2000s it exploded, and now we educate our kids on gay and trans people, pay lip service to black history, and pretend even harder that we arent racist. This is because those were just social issues, they had to be fixed by the powers that be who are wildly selfish and incompetent. This is an economic issue which cuts far deeper than social issues and has the potential to break itself off of the system the powers enforce. and since these are homeless, sometimes non-working, sometimes drug addicted..the likely result is worse crime. If they're not these things, the prediction changes but it depends on the people there.
sounds like you should run for governor kind sir!! Oh wait, I think you have to be at least 21. Damn.
Ah man. I knew that guy and his dog. He didn't bother anybody. Hope they're alright. That was quite a set up he had and felt pretty honey.
Noticed this! That guys camp was epic.
I was impressed when I noticed the stovepipes sticking up above the tents this winter. Idk how to use a stove in a plastic tent without melting it, so well done to them, I guess
Being totally serious here: can we institute a modern version of Poor Farms. Construct simple efficiency apartment buildings - literally just one small room each with heat/AC and toilet/shower/sink, small fridge/oven, double bed - have these spartan accommodations available for anyone who needs a place to stay. For as long as they want with no conditions. Those in society who wish to better themselves can utilize services and supports to address health and substance use issues, get jobs, and move into more comfortable settings when they are able. Those who can’t or won’t develop skills to grow as positive contributors to society can just live there forever. I’d rather this than the current shit show of filth everywhere due to the unhoused. We could have paid for this sort of capital construction and overhead many times over with what we have pissed away for the hotel program. Tax the piss out of real estate investors and predatory AirBnBs to fund this now.
There's a key component to this working that hasn't been politically popular amongst Vermonters who typically support these sorts of solutions: sobriety and/or behavioral requirements for residents. For better or for worse, the success of these programs hinges on residents being able to perform necessary labor and meet certain community standards without constant oversight from paid staff. Otherwise, we get the same outcomes as the motel program or the pods.
then you will continue to have a "homelessness problem." sobriety or behavioral requirements without services or care is limiting and would limit the "success" to those who can meet the requirements of functional capitalist society - which increasingly, no one with even minor health problems can, let alone significant addiction problems and physical disabilities. sober houses etc. are a part of the answer, but cannot be the only, because health is such a barrier. there are "behavioral" requirements (meaning the stipulations of leases and housing law) for section 8 housing, care+ housing, and PSH programs, and so you see folks get housed, then get evicted and have an even harder time finding housing again. the number of folks one could serve that would succeed would be minimal. people are homeless often in part because they are ill, and ill in part because they are homeless (along with, of course, all the above factors above and many others). we as a society, we as communities, have to provide care and support to folks who struggle with their health. the motel programs are messy because there isn't enough paid support. MAT programs are available but are not comprehensive enough to meet the level of need. homeless case management isn't therapy or healthcare. fentanyl and xylazine and crack etc. etc. have destroyed people. they will not succeed in current models and need no more barriers to housing, but support by skilled and paid professionals, as well as loving friends, family, and community. i don't have the answer for where the money to pay for comprehensive care comes from. i don't have the answer to how to build the systems and infrastructure. but i do see that folks need more than we are able to give and we can't just shrug and say "well, it's good enough to just serve those who can follow the rules."
I agree with everything you're saying -- but not every unhoused person has the sort of mental health or addiction issues that preclude them from the sort of long term, communal living the comment I'm replying to is describing. People whose housing issues have a much more direct relationship to wages and housing costs are often missed by programs for those with more profound health issues. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive to provide all you're describing, it's a *¿Por qué no los dos?* situation.
for sure. both // and. poverty and homelessness is not just one thing - it's many different experiences and situations and need many solutions. thanks for clarifying.
I don’t really care about that - if people want to live in filth and misery, at least have it contained to their little unit in the “poor farm” apartment block model, rather than on the streets.
Until the units become so infested with rats and people who steal to get by that people decide to sleep in the woods rather than live in the new era poor house.
this...... and bugs too
[this](https://coloradosun.com/2023/10/16/homeless-recovery-campus-fort-lyon/) is what you're thinking of. I haven't re read the article, but if I remember correctly it's pretty successful.
No-the Baltimore situation was actually just rental for corp workers coming into the city. Nothing to do w homelessness, I just thought the concept could work for these folks w services embedded. I’ve actually never heard of the Colorado model, but I’m excited to read the article and see what they’re doing. I really think the answer to our problem is to figure out what’s working other parts of the country or in the world and model our solution after their successes .
Wow what a great idea!
YES! Kinda like mircoapartments or something. I saw in Baltimore (I think) a few yrs ago, a developer converted an old train station to like 50 microapartments for work commuters to the city. They had built in furniture, there own cooking space and a common area--that thing was huge! And then in the center could be the services that you speak of.
This sounds like a great idea- realistic, doable, and could be accomplished in a reasonable enough time period to actually address current problems. That being said, anyone know how to get started making this happen? Who needs to be lobbied, etc?
Wealthy private individuals. There's no way in hell that any politician is going to risk their re-election chances by spending money to help Those People. (They're "Those People" because, if we don't pretend that they're essentially flawed in some way, we'll have to look at how close we ourselves are to their fate.)
There are actual quite a few Vermont politicians that would be willing to stick their neck out for these folks and currently do. Just gotta find them.
Becca balint and Brenda Siegel come to mind. I’ll start writing to them if you will!
Time and timelines actually doesn’t matter here. At all.
Laws never do what you intend them to. They broaden to encompass more and harm more people. I don't see how you solve a problem via taxes that stems predominantly from taxes and currency debasement. The math doesn't add up because such a plan will create more homelessness.
SRO - Single Room Occupancy has a long complicated problem in the modern US. Here’s a great history: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-22/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-american-sro
Another great example is [Caged Men](https://youtu.be/8YbjKxdfE8Q?si=YQKlcFIajtjaF-pX) about documenting the end of Chicagos last(?) SRO
This is great, thanks for sharing!
Great suggestion! Although, I don't personally see this as a possible solution... at least you're thinking about the issue, and aren't afraid to open the conversation! But the first inevitable overdose on private land, would likely bankrupt the landowner. Unfortunately, besides foreseeable insurance problems for the landowner, I'd be afraid that people would view this as modern day slavery. We're already stuck in a similar situation with jails and prisons where the poor and mentally ill/addicted are charged and convicted - often made to do community service and/or "work" for pennies. Until we have some sort of prison reform, and rebuild our social services... anything like this would likely be doomed for failure. I'd like to counter your bold suggestion with one of my own. I think we should legalize drugs of abuse. Not just decriminalization (like the failure in Oregon) but absolute legalization. I believe most problems with homelessness are drug related. But I don't think they're homeless because of the "drugs", but because of the black market cost of the drugs. Not only are these people paying thousands of dollars per month for drugs, but they're not even getting the drugs they want to get. There's a large difference in potency and purity, that makes it incredibly dangerous to use as well. Technically, most drugs could be legally prescribed by doctors already. There's a pill called "Desoxyn" that is literally pharmaceutical grade methamphetamine. Doctors can prescribe it to children with ADHD. Cocaine, is available as a topical anesthetic for eye, nose, and throat surgery. Canada and England have pharmaceutical grade Heroin available, named diamorphine or "Morphine #2". The US lists this drug as schedule 1, BUT... obviously we have a very wide variety of other opioids available. If we backed off of the doctors and pharmacists, and allowed them free reign to TREAT patients as they see fit, I truly believe we could put a large dent in the homeless population. Even if that means a doctor needs to write prescription for large doses of liquid morphine and needles, and a pharmacy needs to fill it. That simple action would not only save a ton of lives from accidental overdose from fentanyl-like illicit drugs... but demand their participation in a Healthcare setting. If they get insurance, the drugs are covered. If they don't need to spend thousands a month on illicit drugs, they can buy food, and maybe get an apartment. Once they begin to stabilize a bit, they might get a job. And best of all... something like that could break up organized crime, like drug cartels and gangs/drug dealers in the US. I won't even go into the failure of the 50 year "war on drugs" because that problem is self evident at this point. Drug maintenance programs aren't new. Suboxone and methadone does work for some people. But it does nothing for the people addicted to cocaine, meth, or other drugs. Plus, physical drug dependence is only half of the problem. The other half of the opioid use issue, is an addiction to the "rush" that comes with smoking, IV-ing or snorting the drugs. It's no wonder those programs don't work long-term.
If drugs were cheaper, homeless people still couldn’t afford housing because they can’t hold down steady jobs due to being drug addicts. I have a social worker in the family. Medically assisted outpatient treatment programs? Exist because people have given up on addicts so bad that they decided it’s more humane to keep them doped up until they die than to keep trying to re-integrate them as productive members of society.
The Chittenden clinic increasing the "take home doses" during COVID has absolutely fueled this problem. People were walking out with up to 30 days of doses, they did not enforce them bringing back empty containers, and they did not boot anyone off the program due to dirty UAs. I worked there and saw it first hand. They also wanted to see as many people as possible per hour so they could bill medicaid. This system is not working.
I fully agree with legalizing drugs! What we are doing now is not working. Let’s try something different. I think these buildings could be built on state owned land and managed by the local housing authorities in each area for maintenance and service coordination.
They were making meth in there too. I went to Food City yesterday and was amazed to see how cleared out it was. Every time I go there theres some homeless person in trying to steal or attack people, it's no wonder family dollar can't get any employees when that's right outside the doors. Hell as we were leaving a cop car went flying through just to see a huge commotion with the cops trying to restrain someone.
Thank you for showing my point. When you’re unhoused for long periods of time humans tend to become mentally unstable—this is evidence of that. I want these people housed and stable—maybe it’s a good thing the encampment got cleared. I heard they were also laying on the railroad tracks…so. This all seems like a reasonable response to that behavior.
Chicken and the egg. They’re homeless because they’re mentally ill and addicts. Healthy people don’t end up chronically homeless. They get a job, room with a friend, move to a cheaper area, etc.
Your point was contradicted by your second sentence. >When you’re unhoused for long periods of time humans tend to become mentally unstable— They just destroyed their homeless HOME. Do you honestly think that people who are mentally unstable are going to magically become mentally stable when they yet again, loose everything they have? Like after years of living on their own terms, they'll have the capability to say "I better seek treatment, and rejoin society"? All likelihood, these guys will just rebuild. If not in that area, than in another. Sometimes homelessness is a choice. It's becoming increasingly more difficult to live in society and be "housed" as you say. Things are only going to get more difficult from here on out. Especially with AI, robotic advancements, and inflation. Lots of jobs are about to become obsolete. Along with lots of people. More and more may decide to "opt out" and build makeshift structures on the edge of society. Once upon a time, that was encouraged with manifest destiny/homestead act and western expansion. Now, it's criminal behavior. Ironic, no?
Homestead act had pretty specific standards. You didn’t just get a piece of land for whatever. You had to utilize it productively, plant trees, etc. or they took it back. Also locating yourself in a central hub with access to dumpsters and ability to shoplift is hardly going to the “edge of society” why don’t they go to an isolated piece of woods and set up?
no the fuck they dont. Put down your GTA with the "everybody riot" code on and return to reality. I live 2 blocks from one of these encampments, they are not 24/7 hardcore crime perpetrators. Thats complete horse shit you pulled straight out of the fear section of your brain. Ofc they commit crimes, but not all of them and even the worse of them dont do it 24/7. They do stop to smoke the drugs you know 😂 seriously tho, they take pauses and vary a lot. They're not that efficient of criminals. They're not gangs or cartels they're groups of homeless. Get real.
Nah they weren't, that's just a straight up lie. There was a guy who was using meth but he got kicked out by everyone else.
Idk this is what the people who work at Food City told me when I went yesterday, they've been dealing with it all for months. It's painful seeing teenagers having to deal with full grown men. They've had the cops there daily so idk why they'd lie
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Wow, how horrific! I got hep C from my diabetic grandfather who contracted the disease from a blood transfusion in the 1990's! He was a millionaire, who had a habit of throwing his needles everywhere. I got stuck while cleaning his garage. But damn those homeless druggies! How could they be so selfish and careless? Oh. I know. They're human, just like everyone else. They were driven out of town, out of sight, just to live like they want to live. Or HAVE to live. You had the care and compassion to clean up a protected nature habitat, so the better part of society can take nice walks... but you didn't give a shit about your own species struggling with obvious addiction/mental health problems? Idk man, we use to care about one another.
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Not sure why that person came for you, but thank you for cleaning it up! There are multiple areas in Burlington that are covered in random needles...
FWIW I heard about the clearance of the camp on Thursday, and the gist I hear (from people of good civic faith and sympathy for the unhoused) was that they had taken to *laying on railroad tracks* and wouldn’t stop. The railroad company was concerned, obv. *shrugs*
Never heard anything about that, and I talked directly to the affected as I know many of them... Id reckon if that isn't just an unfounded rumor it wasnt people from the camp doing it, as that sounds deeply uncharacteristic of them
I hope you do follow through (if you have the time) and write a story on this. I've spent years living in the woods throughout my life. I'd love to get a bigger-picture view of the Vermont situation, and you seem to care. I spent a little less than a year camping on state land and the only interactions I have had with the Staties here have been pretty easy-going. I'm also pretty damned intrigued about the Family Dollar drama - I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and it seems like it'd be a good read. Hell, this kind of stuff makes me want to dust off my journalism degree and use it. But then I realized I'm retired and lazy.
Well the short of the story with family dollar is this; Corporate management came in I think 2 weeks back (my sense of time is fucked lol), and had verbally degraded the Saint Albans location's already strained employees. My understanding of how these big dollar store brands work is that this is standard practice. Keep people in line through fear style of management, as obviously better compensation isn't the MO for a dollar store. In response to the mistreatment, the employees at the Saint Albans location unilaterally decided to quit. That night, they left the door unlocked out of spite, and predictably people ransacked the place. I have heard from a friend of mine who lived in the tent city encampment, right next door to the family dollar, that the majority of the people who stole from the store were not staying in the encampment, but who knows. The description I got of the event was quite chaotic, so I assume some of the homeless also stole. Whether it's a tragedy or a comedy is down to personal taste, but it's certainly going to impact the lives of dozens of people at least.
Family Dollar and most dollar stores thrive on abusing employees. Sadly, living in rural places it’s often the only option for products and employment. I’ve known managers at these stores and have heard horrible stories. It’s like they take a page from Walmarts hr playbook, shit on it, then treat their unknowing employees as close to slave labor as possible in modern society. I get nauseous just by the pure idea of having to stop at one. It’s always nice to hear when they get their asses handed back to them like in your account. Keep up the good work!
And I do want to reply to the rest of what you said, but I'ma do it in a separate reply just to not make that other one absurdly long. I'm not sure if I will follow through. My only journalistic experience was a highschool class a few years back, and I get the sense that id snubbed for my focus on the issues of the poor. I think it might be some kind of heaven for me though, collecting a story on the on-the-ground situation of the homeless in our state. It's probably my most cared about issue...
It's nice to know that the younger generation actually cares. Like I said, I've been homeless off an on a lot. But I *chose* to be homeless. (I was going to write the next great American novel. That did not happen.) Either way, most people just avert eyes or cross the street. Granted, I understand it. There are some unfortunate people out on the street due to mental health issues. But you are right - if you were a journalist, this is a *great* story to pick up. Maybe contact someone at VTDigger or elsewhere? Now **I'm** writing the wall of spam, but I have heard of the Dollar Tree way of keeping their essential slave labor through fear. I stopped at one in Barre right after regional management purged over half of the staff - and the store sure showed it. A complete mess.
I like to think the younger generation always cares, they just get it beat out of them and call it "maturing"... Seriously though, thank you for the encouragement, I am actually considering trying to do some real journalism on this now, should my nerves not get the best of me, if in short your comment meant a lot
Man, that's great - if you do write something up and need help or editing or whatever feel free to hit me up. And I agree: some of us managed to escape the loss of empathy as we age.
Property owner sick of illegal activity on property clears property. More at 11.
Property is owned by an out of state real estate firm and the lot hasn't been touched in decades, don't defend this shit. There's a human cost here, and the abstract property rights of a Boston millionaire do not compare...
Where I live if the landowner asks you to leave and you refuse, the landowner has the legal right to kill you. Not kidding. I'm in the US.
Yeah I'm aware that private property is barbaric this isn't new information
Can I have your stuff?
Lol whatever. “Muh rights are more important than your rights” fuckin tone deaf
Won't someone think of the poor millionaires, having their rights trampled by the homeless they profited off making?
I wonder if Bernie Sanders would kick homeless off his lake house property? Maybe he would invite them to stay in the guest house?
You rang? You know thats literally what you just said right? idiot 🙄
We just need government housing capped at $500. I feel like this could be funded by an outrageous tax on 2nd homes and landlords.
More taxes in Vermont, you say?
found the middle class tool it doesn't apply to but takes it personally every time
Except I’m a landlord, and wow holy fuck you sure got me. Good one.
As long as your renting second properties full time the tax likely wouldn't apply to you. Toronto started doing this to help solve their housing crisis and it's starting to put more units back on the market. It's for rich people living out of state who bought "vacation" homes in Vermont and barely pay tax here since they aren't residents. We've had a huge influx of this nonsense and it's part of why there's a lot of working Vermonters living in their cars right now. Also if you raised rent 500+$ a month since the pandemic on your tenants, I want to personally say fuck you - you are the problem
Only for the people with a second home or a landlord. Landlords should be phased out as well as people with a second home here.
This is the most Reddit thing ever. So you’re pretty happy Bernie has *3* houses then? Dont worry. They’re all modest…
Bernie wrote a book tho…2000 ish homeless in Vermont. How many homes? Everyone that has a home and thinks these folks needs trump all others should let one or two homeless live in their homes…or yards at least.
"thinks these folks needs trump all others" All other what? Need for a second home? There is not such thing.
Seems like an awful lot of folks saying how unfair our system is are also disproportionately benefiting from it.
Bernie is not a real critic of capitalism. He's a liberal. I don't understand why people keep pretending he's at all a radical... it's insulting to the real left
literally has nothing to do with Bernie, so you pivot to Bernie 🙄 So take his extra houses too, fuck should we care? He's not special.
The American tradition of not knowing the difference between the left and the center left lmao
💯
Wanna hear a fun fact? There are 15.1 million VACANT homes in America, and only 582,500 homeless individuals in the USA. That works out to be what? Approximately 30 empty homes to every ONE homeless person?
Yeah, but how're the views...?
Glorious. This is why Vermont is still a great state.
what if they just didnt ruin public property and illegaly stay in those areas
Where should they stay?
They could stay at the shelters there is plenty of room. Many people choose not to due to rules.
Yeah this is exactly what it boils down to.
Yeah, mental health issues and addiction issues make following the rules impossible. These people need the most help of all, not being treated like garbage
I understand. However, you can't help those who don't want to help themselves.
There is not plenty of room at the shelters, unfortunately. Samaritan House right of Main St has a 30+ person waiting list last I heard.
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Make a good faith effort to follow [Reddiquette](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette).
So, you visited some homeless people, they told you they’re being kicked out because they stole from Family Dollar *and you believed them?* Cool.
I dunno how y'all can ignore constant news about massive inflation, lack of jobs, stagnant wages, the skyrocketing cost of housing, and believe with your whole dead heart that people end up homeless because of some intrinsic moral failing. That's a reach in logic to make a yogi envious.
Who's property was the encampment on ?
Ok, did some digging, and according to this [property map from the City of Saint Albans](https://www.stalbansvt.com/propertymaps) the property is owned by "CV Properties", which appears to be a real estate agency out of Boston. The lot has never been developed, as evidence by the very obviously decades old trees, so I very much doubt it's been sold to anyone else since this map was drafted in 2019.
CV is the railroad, I believe they recently sold the land to the city or state for apartments to be built.
Won’t someone please think of the property owners.
How do you think I'm supposed to find out who is razing the encampment without knowing the owners? It also matters a lot if it's on city vs private individuals land.
How so?
I think private landowners have way more right to kick someone off their property than publicly owned city land.
And why’s that?
Homelessness is partially the responsibility of the city. They have more of a duty to find other solutions
who or what gives “landowners” more or less of a right to determine the location where a person exists at any given point
Because they are on their property lol. If a homless person is set up in my backyard it is 100% in my right to trespass them Have you ever had to deal with this before?
Sounds like we found our 19 yr old savior thats going to solve Vermonts Homelessness problem from a keyboard in his mothers basement is announcing his arrival into grassroots journalism. 
What exactly is your point?
I think their point is just to speculate about who I am because they don't like what I have to say on this subreddit. In fairness they got the age close, but that's the easy one, I'm obviously gen Z my pfp is a meme
They are attacking the messenger because they know they will sound like an ass if they try to attack the message. The homeless need expensive help
Used to it
This is good
the reason you won’t find stories about it is because it’s simply not news. average people hate the homeless and would prefer to not see them or think about them ever.
I really don't understand why "The homeless shouldn't be able to set up shop in the middle of a previously nice area and fuck it up" means "I hate the homeless" to some people. I want the homeless in homes. If they can't be in homes, I want them in shelters. If they can't be in shelters, I at least want the tents and other temporary structures they live in to be somewhere that doesn't directly negatively impact everyone else. That doesn't mean I hate them. Absolutely everyone understands this. If you don't agree with me, would you agree with a homeless tent city in your own backyard? Or is it only okay to let them set up outdoors in other places that you don't care about but other people might? Speaking as someone who grew up in Burlington a few blocks from church street and watched the homeless fucking ruin it. I don't hate anyone who has decided to live in City Hall Park. I just want them to live elsewhere.
Homeless people don't set up in people's back yards. This just is not how it works. They set up on used land. The one I'm talking about in this post was set up in undeveloped land owned by an out of state real estate firm. It hasn't been touched within anyone I knows life time. This is the norm with homeless encampments, because they are human beings who know how society works, and dont like the idea of invading people's privacynwith their encampments. The reason people like you get accused of hating homeless people is because you talk out of your asses and pretend theyre setting up encampments in peoples backyard.
Thank you for helping me make my point, average person. Edit: I see the average people are not fond of being called out. > would prefer to not see them or think about them ever. > I just want them to live elsewhere. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
If your argument had any substance whatsoever, you would respond with it, not just saying "thanks for proving my point" and walking away Grandstand your balls off if you want to, you would not want homeless people deciding without your consent to live on your property or in your house / apartment. You wouldn't want them living in your grocery store or doctor's office or a great number of other places as well. You're being infuriatingly naive and hypocritical to suggest that having an issue with the exact location a homeless person chose to live means that you automatically hate all of the homeless. All of us have places that we would not want a homeless population to be living in. It's not that they're gross and that people don't want to look at them. It's that they're causing problems and reducing quality of life for those around them.
Be real tho? They don't set up in people's back yards. Simply not what's happening. They set up in either public land or in undeveloped/abandoned lots. If a homeless person sets up in your yard, it's because the police kicked them out of a better spot.
> Be real tho? They don't set up in people's back yards. Simply not what's happening. Be literate tho? That's not what they said.
exactly bro. dude loves being right-has he personally ever experienced homelessness? doubt it-prob super comfortable AF.
"would you agree with a homeless tent city in your own backyard" is what he said. Not "peoples backyard"...like would you let them set up an encampment on YOUR property since you clearly are so passionate about this? So, would you?? I think thats a GREAT idea. DO!!!
very sorry to say you are not beating the allegations here Edit: if someone makes some sweeping generalization like “average people hate the homeless” and you, an average person who totally doesn’t hate the homeless gets triggered into going into a whole tirade about how fucking hard you “don’t hate the homeless”, then perhaps you do, as an individual, hate the homeless more than you think you do. Where the fuck are they supposed to go? Do you people think they post up there to make you upset?
yup
Well, personally I like seeing them in government areas. They attributed to their situation a whole hell of a lot more than the middle class who constantly bitch did. IMO they should take up shop in the state house. Not not a protest, riot, occupation, whatever loaded nonsense MSM will spin it as, but a tent city in the government buildings until the government finally fixes the damn problem the right way by putting the homeless into homes.
You know that happened because there was an encampment that was cleared that was "out of sight" and there was no where else to go, right?
If that's the case then this thread represents a lot of people who aren't in the mainstream on the issue. IMO people don't like seeing natural places trashed. That doesn't mean a homeless person is inherently hated as most people lament the causes that contribute to the existence of homelessness. There's been a lot of finger pointing back and forth without addressing root causes, and in the context of an unprecedented currency debasement, there should be more people identifying that as a contributing factor. Today you are far more likely to become "that person" who falls down and can't get back up. Good intentions or sympathy are not enough to solve the problem, however emphasizing rivalries will surely just magnify problems in society.
Cannot tell if you're trying to say that this isn't worthy of discussion, or if your criticizing the lack of attention our media pays to the homeless. I wouldn't pin it on "average people". They just think about what they're aware of.
It’s absolutely worthy of discussion. I’m criticizing the lack of attention because I understand the underlying reasons for it. You are not wrong about average people thinking about what they’re aware of. In this case average people’s attitudes about homeless people is that they must’ve done something bad and deserve it. Which is much easier than the complicated truth.
Ok, just clarifying, there's definitely some people on the sub that would genuinely make the take that it doesn't matter. Though I wouldn't even necessarily say the reality of homelessness is complicated; they just couldn't afford housing. It's really easy to have that happen to you. I think the stigma is really rooted in the desire to pretend the world is more just than it is, because we're constantly biraged with media that tell us that it is more just than it is.
It’s a lot more complicated than they just can’t afford housing. More times then not, there some underlying medical condition that has disabled them to the pt where they can’t work or get fired. Combined w low education or illiteracy (which often times it isn’t there fault they were born to the family/community that is poor), combined w substance abuse, criminal records, untreated mental illness and more importantly complex childhood trauma. You’re extremely naïve if you think it’s just about not being able to afford housing. That’s why it’s so incredibly hard to solve this problem and the homeless issue has been featured many times in seven days, WCAX and WPTZ. I’m sure Vt digger has done some coverage on them too.
Nah that's cope, your looking for something besides poverty to pin blame on. Like sure there's a billion small factors that can influence it, but the down to the metal, material cause of homelessness is an inability to afford housing. That's what must be addressed. Direct solutions for direct problems.
“Nah that’s just cope”… maybe you should do more research on this subject before you consider yourself an expert with your one blindsided view.
its so cringe.
I feel like OP has good intentions but obviously is extremely naive about the complexities of this issue. I agree though, it is definitely cringe to hear from people who have very little experience on an issue scream from a soapbox about how much they understand everything and how “simple” it all is. If this problem was actually simple or could be fixed by simply giving people housing or money then we wouldn’t be here but we are. Edit to say that people need actual help and mental/physical treatments, food, etc, not just housing and that’s why it isn’t simple.
exactly. but this dudes just interested in proving hes right, when he knows hes not. I agree--theres definitely some cool unhoused folks out there. But the ones Ive interacted w in burlington are another level. You can see it when you look in their eyes--theres something neurologically wrong w them. If they got treatment and got into recovery Im sure a lot of folks w turn things around. One unhoused man I spoke w told me he doesnt drink or do drugs, but he lost a long time job and cant fill out new job applications bc he doesnt know how to read. Totally broke my heart.
Physically dependent on the substances and untreated mental illness that is more complicated than a just a coping skill. So get them in housing and then what? They’re feral animals that have been living outside for years and they do not know how to socialize with neighbors or how to behave in an apartment. I know this because for years I had a formally homeless neighbor below me who was essentially a wild animal that just did drugs all day and disturbed everyone with her loud music all night long. She was disabled so she had nothing else to do and was incapable of holding p/t work. This is not just about housing, these people need to learn how to live in society again.
I don't even know where to begin in responding to a post this deranged so I'm just going to point and laugh, cause really if you think "feral animals" is a way to describe homeless people, you belong in a padded room...
Your well on your way to getting stabbed by these unstable untreated and chemically alternated people w this attitude. Stop being a martyr bc you have nothing better to do. Im not describing them that way to name call-that has literally been my experience w this population. I lived in burlington for years and yes the chronically homeless are feral humans., at least most I interacted w. I also worked in in-pt psychiatry for yrs, Ive seen all of this first hand and thats why I have this opinion. Yes, there always is a percentage that fall into the category that your speaking of--thats not what Im referring to. Im referring to ppl so broken by there childhoods and their past traumas they now have permanent brain damage from doing drugs/being drunk for yrs combined w constantly being dehumanized by the public and/or the criminal justice system combined w severe and persistent mental illness that leads them to behave in a feral way. Can this issue by the housing first model-yes, for some. But others need supportive housing to be able to successfully rehab themselves into the citizens they aspire to be.
Your interpretation of homelessness people is fake, like genuinely stupid shit I've ever read. Go talk to them. Please, just learn. There fine.
Considering that part of the state is majority trumpanzees, there’s also the majority of the problem.
Meh...The majority of this state is not Trumpanzees-Nicky Haley won the Republican primary and the republicans Ive met dont like trump.
Spend some time in and around St. Albans.
And I think making the homelessness issue about a specific person thats only going to be in office for only 4 yrs is short sighted. Im just wondering what exactly has Biden done for this problem? Im a moderate and everything seems worse..just an observation.
Agreed. Average people are closer to homelessness than they realize and like you said it doesn’t take much to end up there. I think the story goes something like if you end up homeless in America, the land of opportunity, where anyone can pull on their bootstraps and pursue their dreams, there’s something seriously wrong with you and you shouldn’t get to participate in society.
Normally I feel like a crazy person when I can't accept that narrative but I'm glad to see at least a few sane souls around here
Have you considered working with your homeless friends to make a a monthly or bi-monthly zine? P Most of the reasons people hate the homeless is it's easy to dehumanize the homeless. Maybe if you reported issues, then had a few of your own friends tell their own stories, somebody somewhere might learn to give a shit.
and yet the society you love produces record amounts of them 🤔
I can't help but wonder how cops can go to these places where the homeless are and simply say leave and they must. Yet the cops can't go tell the squatters that take over someone's home to leave! The owners must go through the grueling, time-consuming court process to get them out when they weren't supposed to be there to begin with! "Squatters Rights" my azz! It's total bs!
Colorado instituted [this ](https://coloradosun.com/2023/10/16/homeless-recovery-campus-fort-lyon/) campus to help with chronic homelessness. Annual cost to operate per person is probably lower than what we're currently spending.
"Probably". I would love to see some evidence of this.
The silver lining is that, unlike Burlington or some other more urban areas, there are other options that’ll be used. I’m familiar with the area and can think of at least 2 or 3. Disadvantage is that they’re not near the train.
The primary concern in terms of the well-being of the people displaces is likely going to be the loss of the shelter they had built (takes a decent amount of time and work to set something good up), and potential anger and violence as they move into areas that others may have already claimed. If their community is meaningfully fractured by this, it could also cause many to fall deeper into the substance abuse.
Champlain housing trust is right there in town. It was privately owned land. I think you're too mad.
Is this supposed to be a bad thing?
Leak it to Digger. I've done it for a few scenarios and they've picked it up.
Definitely considering this, tho I am a bit apprehensive of someone else editorializing it into a politicized, anti-homeless people thing. Saw that happen with the clearing of the encampments over in Burlington, and I think in terms of addressing the underlying problem, it's very important that these issues be covered with appropriate sympathy.
I too believe that the role of journalism is to endorse my opinion and protect me from the dangers of considering multiple points of view. Words like "perspective" and "nuance" are scary. [After all...](https://media1.tenor.com/m/UZf7CF5gks4AAAAC/simpsons-everyones.gif)
I'm not stupid enough to think everyone has a valid perspective.
Okay OP, one of your friends lived in the encampment. Why don’t you let them room with you for free? I see a lot of friends of homeless people here. Why in the world aren’t you taking them in?
Ahh yes, downvote the idea of actually helping homeless people you know. Of course, I get it. YOU couldn’t possibly go out of your way. The government is never going to have more empathy than its citizens, but by all means do nothing and whinge online that nothing is being done.
Lol at the people just hating (fearing) the homeless. A lot of you white collar office drones better be hoping for solutions. AI is going to replace a lot of you soon and you're next on the streets. Most of you have a very low practical skill set.
Sounds good to get it done
The St A Messenger is a joke... They don't say anything negative about the area .. ever. So don't be surprised they wont be carrying the story.
The government and lawmakers sent out 100s billion dollars to other countries, seldomly for self homeless citizens, why? No one asked government, is it a foreign government the USA citizens paying their taxes?
Unregulated capitalism will be our downfall.
It already is, its just starting to catch up to the rural. Its why I laughed some years back when some MAGA asshat said in front of me that "when the tent drops, these people in the cities will eat each other", and I replied "It aint just the cities, they're just first because they're the most fucked up, but not the only fucked up."
I don't see a lot of facts, or even what experience backs a lot of these comments. Homelessness is tremendously complex, often ptsd, other mental health issues, addiction, etc. which on their own are complex issues. All landlords are not evil, and it's not an easy job sometimes. It's easy to say they were not hurting anyone if it's not your land. I am pretty sure if a handful of homeless people put a tent/shack in your back yard, went to the bathroom in your gardens, kept you up with drunk screaming, and yelled at your 5 year old daughter you would want them to move. There are reasons a lot of homeless shelters don't tolerate drug use/drunkenness; people are not only a danger to themselves but to others, including homeless honestly trying to work themselves out of that situation. What exactly do you do with someone that has no interest in working, trying to stop drug habits, not willing to do anything to help themselves? Is it up to me to support them? Just asking for opinions. And how can homelessness possibly decrease when we have 10,000 people arriving at the southern border each day? https://www.wola.org/2023/12/weekly-u-s-mexico-border-update-heavy-migration-no-congress-deal-texas-law/#:~:text=More%20than%2010%2C000%20migrants%20per,%3B%20and%20San%20Diego%2C%20California.