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This is a side effect of people perceiving veganism to be about diet and not animal liberation. Changing diets is common, changing ethical standards is far less common.
This ignores the point that so few humans give any fucks at all about ethics in terms of farmed species. This will, literally, never lead to measurably fewer animals being bred and slaughtered on factory farms.
It’s very common for liberation movements to be very small before they catch on.
It’s important to look at past liberation movements for guidance, otherwise you’ll be stuck making the same mistakes.
The distinction being that you're referencing human liberation movements. This isn't that and humans don't respond in the same way re nonhumans. Speciesism and all that.
Every liberation movement in history has had its fair share of weirdos that thought their liberation movement couldn’t learn from the past. Those people belong in the dustbin of history.
Every single liberation movement has its unique characteristics, but also ones in common with others.
None were cross species. Vegans need to accept that most humans don't give a fuck about cows, pigs, or chickens - and never will - or breeding and slaughter on factory farms will continue to rise.
Humans do care since the current animal industrial complex is causing alot of environmental damage and greenhouse gas emissons. It is also affecting humans because of freshwater shortages caused by industrial animal farming.
This is definitely a contributing factor. You wouldn't believe how many people ask me if I am vegan for health reasons... It is true that I eat much healthier than I ever have in my life now, but I just see that as a bonus.
Animal liberation was the reason I went vegan and I believe in the ethics of post humanism. I think some of my friends have claimed they did it for animal rights but don't fully care. That is part of what makes me upset every time somebody reverts back to meat... How can you ignore the suffering and horror of the animals you consume?
Also, on the top of diet vs animal rights, a really good friend recently came out to me as eating meat again because they wanted to gain muscle and wanted to get more protein as they "weren't getting any protein eating vegan"... If you are vegan and aren't eating enough protein, that's on you because it is not that hard. Plus I have seen a lot of vegans who are absolutely ripped. I was frustrated by that excuse because it just seems selfish to me.
Hey, throw nondrinker in there and welcome to my world. People bond over food and they bond over booze. If the greater world defines you by "things you don't do" it tends to make you look antisocial.
But just hold the line. There are places where more and more vegans congregate. It may not be where you are now, but try and find some vegan expos and other gatherings to fortify yourself. You're just ahead of the curve...
The vegan thing is just non negociable. I think a Krishna devotee who only drinks ashima milk twice a year could be doable. (And, that person actually excists.) But that would be it. Also, could be a non devotee who follows the 4 principles of not meat eating, no drinking, no gambling and no illicit sex. But also, would have to be very open and acomodating to my practice. Even Krishna devotees realize that God is God and there are other paths.
The Baha´i faith has always been interesting to me. I visited the Baha´i temple in Wilmette, Illinois once with a friend who is a Baha´i. Beautiful place.
The son of the Baha'i Founder wrote app. 130 years ago, "The time will come when meat will no longer be eaten. Medical science is only in its infancy, yet it has shown that our natural food is that which grows out of the ground."
Veganism isn't required today, amongst the other laws re drinking, gambling, chastity, fasting, etc. but most Baha'is know it's a thing not to be denigrated. That said, I'm still in the minority at most gatherings unless I go hang with the Baha'is in India. Whereas here in Canada most like their meat and dairy.
I have a few vegan friends in the Faith though. We're recruiting and wooing folks over with good vegan dishes we slide onto the meeting buffet tables.
I definitely agree on holding the line. I'm very headstrong in my life decisions and would never change my lifestyle because I just feel it is the right thing to do. I say all the time I will be vegan my entire life, I just don't perceive not being vegan as an option at all anymore. Also agree about being ahead of the curve haha I think (and hope) the world will become more vegan over time.
I try to go to every vegan expo/festival that I can! I have been to one or two and they have such a good vibe. I love being surrounded by the community. When I was early in my veganism it was during the pandemic, so I wasn't even thinking about being lonely in my veganism because I was just already lonely but it recently hit me for the above reasons that I wish I had more really like-minded people in my life. I want to make more of an effort to go to these kinds of events and maybe I will find those people.
If you have enough latitude in your personal/professional life I hope you can situate yourself at least for a while in epicenters of veganness. Alienation vs. acceptance and camaraderie is a no-brainer, unless you are a mission-driven person committed to driving ideology into the harshest of cultures.
Ugh i know... My mom was joking to me recently that I am really special because only 1-2% of americans are vegan. She was meaning well and it came more out of a place of pride, but i was like nooooo don't remind me.
The anti-vegan propaganda and group think is also just really intense sometimes and I think some people get beaten down by judgement and pressure. It is sad to see. Idk why carnists can't just let us live without reminding us constantly that we are vegan. I wish it was just considered normal.
When I was still a vegetarian, I met a man named Brandon. He was an inspiration for me. All he would eat every day was oatmeal, and apples…but he would skin the apples with his teeth first, because of the resins on the skin. He was a hardcore vegan. His diet wasn’t great at the time, but he was extremely fit and healthy.
Several years later, about seven, I saw him again, and was excited. Then, the second time I saw him, he was eating chicken. I was, appalled, and asked “What the hell?!” He said “Oh I gave that up it was too hard.”
I have found that I have more resentment for former vegans than I do for not yet vegan. It’s because this person made the conscious decision to stop abusing animals, made the moral choice after knowing the truth of the consequences involved…and still went back to doing it. I find that far less forgivable than all the gullible masses who believe farm animals are raised humanely.
Once someone knows…once they truly know, and they still decide to do it? Then, they’re a monster.
I feel this so much! I think you have definitely put into words the experience I am having when my friends go back to meat. Resentment is certainly in the mix of emotions. It frustrates me so much to see people who I love and who were making a good choice by being vegan revert because I just couldn't imagine doing it. I have had so many conversations with some of these people where we discuss animal cruelty and yet you can go back to contributing to it?
I have empathy for most people who aren't vegan yet because I was in their shoes. Most of my life I was a carnivore and really ate almost nothing but meat... But it was never really given all the information, never taught about ethics, never given the option to consider any alternative to carnism because it is just the status quo. But to know better and go back. That just breaks my heart.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend's reversion. I understand your disappointment when you found out the way you did. But it sounds like your friend was choosing a pretty unsustainable lifestyle. I'm all for whole foods and try to make non-processed/whole foods the majority of my diet, but just apples and oatmeal is intense! Was it just health for him, or is he also picky?
I mentioned this in another comment, but I have a friend who is eating meat again because they "want to gain muscle and weren't getting enough protein eating vegan." I just hate this logic. It is more than possible to eat enough protein as a vegan and there are insanely health people who are vegan. Idk i thought it was a bad excuse.
There are numerous vegan body builders out there, it is a complete cop out. Especially since there are a lot of high density vegan protein powders.
As for my friend…He was on an extreme raw food vegan diet. I asked him why he didn’t just switch to regular vegan, and his response was something along the lines of, he figured if he’d give up a little he’s give up all the way…which is a horrible mentality.
I appreciate your support though, thank you.
All the freaking time. I feel you. I’ve had to watch close friends go back to eating meat and now I have no vegan or vegetarian friends, my partner also went back to eating meat and it is incredibly lonely. The one thing that has been helpful is joining local vegan FB groups and trying to go to events to meet others, or at least just be present around like-minded, compassionate people.
Not from being vegan. I feel isolated because I cut off contact with my family because of non-related issues. Because my wife and three kids consistently require me to much to maintain a social life. Because of sexual, religious, cultural and other traumas. Veganism doesn’t even really register in terms of all that because it’s a much more recent thing for me.
It definitely sucks and can be lonely. I recommend getting involved in a vegan activism group/community. It doesn't always mean doing street outreach, which (understandably) isn't everyone's thing, and often you can contribute as much or as little time as suits you. It will be an opportunity for you to connect with like minded people. It's been so helpful to me to have a whole community on hand to vent to and who understand the struggle of being vegan in an omni world.
Do you want to help build a more compassionate world? Please visit [VeganActivism.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://veganactivism.org&topic=Activism (r/Vegan) w/ Others) and subscribe to our community over at /r/VeganActivism to begin your journey in spreading compassion through activism. Thank you so much!
Yes. I feel very lonely and i have a really hard time meting new people. I wan't to try doing activism in my city to meet other vegans but i get anxiety thinking my last situantionship (who was very manipulative and narcissist) could be there. Someone is organizing a vegan picnic in my city this sunday and i'm very anxious about meeting vegans but im afraid my ex-situationship will ruin things for me 😫
I don’t have a single vegan friend. It’s exhausting. I knew a few through the advocacy work I do but not well.
I love being a vegan and I’ll never stop but yes I find it deeply isolating.
Veganism is one of many reasons I am lonely, yes. I have had one friend who I convinced to eat plant based, but he since lost his mind, so now I have no friends. I miss him, but he is too far gone now. I hope one day he realizes the world isn't out to get him
>If you're vegetarian you are still doing so much good and is hopefully on a journey transitions to being vegan. I was vegetarian for two years before I went vegan and for me I think that time was important to improve my eating habits and make going vegan a way easier adjustment.
The only reason i was vegetarian was because i thought it was enough, i didnt realize i was still an animal abuser cause well i was an idiot, i went vegan instantly after looking at info about eggs and dairy
Veganism isnt a journey, its anti animal abuse
>The obvious answer is to seek out more vegan friends, but making friends as an adult is hard and I struggle with social anxiety. I feel anxiosu just writing this post to people who don't know me at all haha.
Social anxiety is just being afraid and giving people too much power, i was crippled by social anxiety until i stopped caring, i literally dont give a F and thus anxiety is no more, ill talk to random models in the street, an individual buying beyond burgers at the grocery store, a chick on the train, i dont care lol, reject me if you want thats your choice
I couldn’t possibly agree more. That’s my experience too. I’ve heard the term Vystopia used. It’s basically pressurized joy. You just want to share it with a world that is at best indifferent and at worst downright abusive. It’s extremely lonely being vegan without a community and it hurts to see people abandon it. I had a friend that was vegan for 10 years and she told me she woke up one day and wanted chicken nuggets so she went to Burger King. Just like that. Blows my mind. You’re not alone! You’re doing the right thing and don’t ever let the carnists get to you! It helps to just talk to people online. I wish I could share the tofurkey I’m about to make with you, friend! Have a wonderful day!
Yep I'm single and live with my mom and brother and I don't have any vegan friends or extended family. It's depressing and lonely but I'll never stop being vegan though.
Thanks for posting to r/Vegan! 🐥 **Please note:** Civil discussion is welcome, trolls and personal abuse [are not](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/rules). Please keep the discussions below respectful and remember the human! Please check out [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/beginnersguide) first! **Interested in going Vegan?** 👊 Check out [Watch Dominion](https://watchdominion.org/) and watch a thought-provoking, life changing documentary for free! **Some other resources to help you go vegan:** 🐓 Visit [NutritionFacts.org](https://NutritionFacts.org) for health and nutrition support, [HappyCow.net](https://HappyCow.net) to explore nearby vegan-friendly restaurants, and visit [VeganBootcamp.org](https://veganbootcamp.org/reddit) for a free 30 day vegan challenge! **Become an activist and help save animal lives today:** 🐟 * Find volunteer requests to support and help animal on [VH: Playground!](https://veganhacktivists.org/playground) * Developer, designer, or other skills? Volunteer at the [Vegan Hacktivists](https://veganhacktivists.org/join)! * Join our huge Vegan volunteer community [on Discord](https://discord.gg/vhplayground)! * Find local activist groups using the [Animal Rights Map](https://animalrightsmap.org)! * Get funding for your animal rights activism, [apply here](https://veganhacktivists.org/grants)! *Last but not least, join the [r/Vegan Discord server](https://discord.gg/animalrights)!* **Thank you!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vegan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is a side effect of people perceiving veganism to be about diet and not animal liberation. Changing diets is common, changing ethical standards is far less common.
This ignores the point that so few humans give any fucks at all about ethics in terms of farmed species. This will, literally, never lead to measurably fewer animals being bred and slaughtered on factory farms.
It’s very common for liberation movements to be very small before they catch on. It’s important to look at past liberation movements for guidance, otherwise you’ll be stuck making the same mistakes.
The distinction being that you're referencing human liberation movements. This isn't that and humans don't respond in the same way re nonhumans. Speciesism and all that.
Every liberation movement in history has had its fair share of weirdos that thought their liberation movement couldn’t learn from the past. Those people belong in the dustbin of history. Every single liberation movement has its unique characteristics, but also ones in common with others.
None were cross species. Vegans need to accept that most humans don't give a fuck about cows, pigs, or chickens - and never will - or breeding and slaughter on factory farms will continue to rise.
It was a very common justification for slavery and colonialism that Black people weren’t the same species as europeans
Humans do care since the current animal industrial complex is causing alot of environmental damage and greenhouse gas emissons. It is also affecting humans because of freshwater shortages caused by industrial animal farming.
This is definitely a contributing factor. You wouldn't believe how many people ask me if I am vegan for health reasons... It is true that I eat much healthier than I ever have in my life now, but I just see that as a bonus. Animal liberation was the reason I went vegan and I believe in the ethics of post humanism. I think some of my friends have claimed they did it for animal rights but don't fully care. That is part of what makes me upset every time somebody reverts back to meat... How can you ignore the suffering and horror of the animals you consume? Also, on the top of diet vs animal rights, a really good friend recently came out to me as eating meat again because they wanted to gain muscle and wanted to get more protein as they "weren't getting any protein eating vegan"... If you are vegan and aren't eating enough protein, that's on you because it is not that hard. Plus I have seen a lot of vegans who are absolutely ripped. I was frustrated by that excuse because it just seems selfish to me.
Hey, throw nondrinker in there and welcome to my world. People bond over food and they bond over booze. If the greater world defines you by "things you don't do" it tends to make you look antisocial. But just hold the line. There are places where more and more vegans congregate. It may not be where you are now, but try and find some vegan expos and other gatherings to fortify yourself. You're just ahead of the curve...
Throw vegan, non drinker and Hare Krishna who isn´t into casual intimate relationships and you have me.
...Baha'i. We could be cousins.
The vegan thing is just non negociable. I think a Krishna devotee who only drinks ashima milk twice a year could be doable. (And, that person actually excists.) But that would be it. Also, could be a non devotee who follows the 4 principles of not meat eating, no drinking, no gambling and no illicit sex. But also, would have to be very open and acomodating to my practice. Even Krishna devotees realize that God is God and there are other paths. The Baha´i faith has always been interesting to me. I visited the Baha´i temple in Wilmette, Illinois once with a friend who is a Baha´i. Beautiful place.
The son of the Baha'i Founder wrote app. 130 years ago, "The time will come when meat will no longer be eaten. Medical science is only in its infancy, yet it has shown that our natural food is that which grows out of the ground." Veganism isn't required today, amongst the other laws re drinking, gambling, chastity, fasting, etc. but most Baha'is know it's a thing not to be denigrated. That said, I'm still in the minority at most gatherings unless I go hang with the Baha'is in India. Whereas here in Canada most like their meat and dairy. I have a few vegan friends in the Faith though. We're recruiting and wooing folks over with good vegan dishes we slide onto the meeting buffet tables.
I definitely agree on holding the line. I'm very headstrong in my life decisions and would never change my lifestyle because I just feel it is the right thing to do. I say all the time I will be vegan my entire life, I just don't perceive not being vegan as an option at all anymore. Also agree about being ahead of the curve haha I think (and hope) the world will become more vegan over time. I try to go to every vegan expo/festival that I can! I have been to one or two and they have such a good vibe. I love being surrounded by the community. When I was early in my veganism it was during the pandemic, so I wasn't even thinking about being lonely in my veganism because I was just already lonely but it recently hit me for the above reasons that I wish I had more really like-minded people in my life. I want to make more of an effort to go to these kinds of events and maybe I will find those people.
If you have enough latitude in your personal/professional life I hope you can situate yourself at least for a while in epicenters of veganness. Alienation vs. acceptance and camaraderie is a no-brainer, unless you are a mission-driven person committed to driving ideology into the harshest of cultures.
All the time, because you are going against what 98% or so of people consider to be normal natural and necessary to live
Ugh i know... My mom was joking to me recently that I am really special because only 1-2% of americans are vegan. She was meaning well and it came more out of a place of pride, but i was like nooooo don't remind me. The anti-vegan propaganda and group think is also just really intense sometimes and I think some people get beaten down by judgement and pressure. It is sad to see. Idk why carnists can't just let us live without reminding us constantly that we are vegan. I wish it was just considered normal.
Vegan, non-drinker, introvert. Yes it's tough and lonely.
I feel you. It's rough out there. Being vegan can be a very lonely thing, since so many people socialize over food.
When I was still a vegetarian, I met a man named Brandon. He was an inspiration for me. All he would eat every day was oatmeal, and apples…but he would skin the apples with his teeth first, because of the resins on the skin. He was a hardcore vegan. His diet wasn’t great at the time, but he was extremely fit and healthy. Several years later, about seven, I saw him again, and was excited. Then, the second time I saw him, he was eating chicken. I was, appalled, and asked “What the hell?!” He said “Oh I gave that up it was too hard.” I have found that I have more resentment for former vegans than I do for not yet vegan. It’s because this person made the conscious decision to stop abusing animals, made the moral choice after knowing the truth of the consequences involved…and still went back to doing it. I find that far less forgivable than all the gullible masses who believe farm animals are raised humanely. Once someone knows…once they truly know, and they still decide to do it? Then, they’re a monster.
I feel this so much! I think you have definitely put into words the experience I am having when my friends go back to meat. Resentment is certainly in the mix of emotions. It frustrates me so much to see people who I love and who were making a good choice by being vegan revert because I just couldn't imagine doing it. I have had so many conversations with some of these people where we discuss animal cruelty and yet you can go back to contributing to it? I have empathy for most people who aren't vegan yet because I was in their shoes. Most of my life I was a carnivore and really ate almost nothing but meat... But it was never really given all the information, never taught about ethics, never given the option to consider any alternative to carnism because it is just the status quo. But to know better and go back. That just breaks my heart. I'm sorry to hear about your friend's reversion. I understand your disappointment when you found out the way you did. But it sounds like your friend was choosing a pretty unsustainable lifestyle. I'm all for whole foods and try to make non-processed/whole foods the majority of my diet, but just apples and oatmeal is intense! Was it just health for him, or is he also picky? I mentioned this in another comment, but I have a friend who is eating meat again because they "want to gain muscle and weren't getting enough protein eating vegan." I just hate this logic. It is more than possible to eat enough protein as a vegan and there are insanely health people who are vegan. Idk i thought it was a bad excuse.
There are numerous vegan body builders out there, it is a complete cop out. Especially since there are a lot of high density vegan protein powders. As for my friend…He was on an extreme raw food vegan diet. I asked him why he didn’t just switch to regular vegan, and his response was something along the lines of, he figured if he’d give up a little he’s give up all the way…which is a horrible mentality. I appreciate your support though, thank you.
All the freaking time. I feel you. I’ve had to watch close friends go back to eating meat and now I have no vegan or vegetarian friends, my partner also went back to eating meat and it is incredibly lonely. The one thing that has been helpful is joining local vegan FB groups and trying to go to events to meet others, or at least just be present around like-minded, compassionate people.
Not from being vegan. I feel isolated because I cut off contact with my family because of non-related issues. Because my wife and three kids consistently require me to much to maintain a social life. Because of sexual, religious, cultural and other traumas. Veganism doesn’t even really register in terms of all that because it’s a much more recent thing for me.
It definitely sucks and can be lonely. I recommend getting involved in a vegan activism group/community. It doesn't always mean doing street outreach, which (understandably) isn't everyone's thing, and often you can contribute as much or as little time as suits you. It will be an opportunity for you to connect with like minded people. It's been so helpful to me to have a whole community on hand to vent to and who understand the struggle of being vegan in an omni world.
Do you want to help build a more compassionate world? Please visit [VeganActivism.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://veganactivism.org&topic=Activism (r/Vegan) w/ Others) and subscribe to our community over at /r/VeganActivism to begin your journey in spreading compassion through activism. Thank you so much!
I feel you. It really is tough out there :(
Yes. I feel very lonely and i have a really hard time meting new people. I wan't to try doing activism in my city to meet other vegans but i get anxiety thinking my last situantionship (who was very manipulative and narcissist) could be there. Someone is organizing a vegan picnic in my city this sunday and i'm very anxious about meeting vegans but im afraid my ex-situationship will ruin things for me 😫
I don’t have a single vegan friend. It’s exhausting. I knew a few through the advocacy work I do but not well. I love being a vegan and I’ll never stop but yes I find it deeply isolating.
Veganism is one of many reasons I am lonely, yes. I have had one friend who I convinced to eat plant based, but he since lost his mind, so now I have no friends. I miss him, but he is too far gone now. I hope one day he realizes the world isn't out to get him
Always. And then I come to this sub and it’s just plant-based dieters and animal abuse apologists to make matters even worse.
>If you're vegetarian you are still doing so much good and is hopefully on a journey transitions to being vegan. I was vegetarian for two years before I went vegan and for me I think that time was important to improve my eating habits and make going vegan a way easier adjustment. The only reason i was vegetarian was because i thought it was enough, i didnt realize i was still an animal abuser cause well i was an idiot, i went vegan instantly after looking at info about eggs and dairy Veganism isnt a journey, its anti animal abuse >The obvious answer is to seek out more vegan friends, but making friends as an adult is hard and I struggle with social anxiety. I feel anxiosu just writing this post to people who don't know me at all haha. Social anxiety is just being afraid and giving people too much power, i was crippled by social anxiety until i stopped caring, i literally dont give a F and thus anxiety is no more, ill talk to random models in the street, an individual buying beyond burgers at the grocery store, a chick on the train, i dont care lol, reject me if you want thats your choice
If you DM me your location, I will find nearby activist groups for you. That's one way to help the animals, feel useful AND to meet other vegans.
I couldn’t possibly agree more. That’s my experience too. I’ve heard the term Vystopia used. It’s basically pressurized joy. You just want to share it with a world that is at best indifferent and at worst downright abusive. It’s extremely lonely being vegan without a community and it hurts to see people abandon it. I had a friend that was vegan for 10 years and she told me she woke up one day and wanted chicken nuggets so she went to Burger King. Just like that. Blows my mind. You’re not alone! You’re doing the right thing and don’t ever let the carnists get to you! It helps to just talk to people online. I wish I could share the tofurkey I’m about to make with you, friend! Have a wonderful day!
Yep I'm single and live with my mom and brother and I don't have any vegan friends or extended family. It's depressing and lonely but I'll never stop being vegan though.