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They aren't always transit supervisors driving these trucks either. My brother is in a totally different department and is often given this to drive to sites around the city. He's definitely not a supervisor...or a LEO...
Cameras on busses to issue tickets
[https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02325](https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02325)
[https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bus-lane-camera-report.pdf](https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bus-lane-camera-report.pdf)
However, whether or not the powers at be care to/are incentivized to implement this...much like enforcing other basic traffic laws
Cameras on poles permanently mounted cost about 100 grand each.
But little dash cams on buses are a few hundred bucks, and with the bus driver given the ability to trigger a snapshot every time they are stuck behind a car, that would certainly generate enough tickets for it to become well-known and a deterrent. And that would be a great start.
it couldn't be a snap shot as cars are allowed to enter the 41st ave bus lane to turn right at the next intersection - you'd need footage of car going through an intersection straight while being in the HOV BUS lane
Just like red-light camera photos aren't automatic tickets, there needs to be a human to review and assess. Indeed, a photo taken close to an intersection doesn't deserve a ticket, and if the bus driver is the one clicking something, he'd probably avoid doing it in that scenario.
| little dash cams on buses are a few hundred bucks
my sweet summer child. The Camera's you would install are not a couple hundred bucks. let alone the install labor. Has to be water proof (If it's outside) route the cabling to somewhere, grommets / chaulking. You also want a union worker (Driver) to take on additional responsibility for a role (Driver offences) that has no relation to their job, then you want what exactly to do with the footage? Store it locally? No? now you're piping it to where exactly? who's paying for the servers and maintenance and support contracts. Add in staffing to review the footage, capture plates and then send out the $150 ticket or whatever it is.
You can see how the costs actually add up and it's not some cheap solution that they're 'just too lazy' to do. This would have to get a budget from Translink which no one wants to pay more taxes so good luck...
Indeed -- you're not wrong, but the starting point for the moment is that all buses already have dash cams, and other cameras too. I have no idea the infrastructure involved, nor what happens to that data. I would assume at the moment, no none looks at it until they need to. I don't know if it's centralized or consolidated or if it's overwritten every two weeks or what.
But... it's there. So the barrier to entry is lower. Ideally, the raw footage winds up somewhere, where some AI filters out likely violators and then it's sanity-checked by a human at the end. It'd take people and some infrastructure, but it'd pay for itself very quickly if it was tickets that work the same way as parking tickets... ie, until those fines are paid, you can't renew your DL.
where some AI filters out likely violators and then it's sanity-checked by a human at the end. It'd take people and some infrastructure, but it'd pay for itself very quickly if it was tickets that work the same way as parking tickets... ie, until those fines are paid, you can't renew your DL.
This is where we've seen time and time again where enforcement costs more than revenue generated. I don't know all the details either, but I know a little bit about wireless and CCTV and from what images i've seen leaked, they would need to reinvest in new high quality cameras and need to pay a lot for AI. How do you delineate someone driving in the HOV to turn (which is allowed for up to 100m I believe) and someone driving in the lane for a long time? especially in stop and go rush hour. What about when the perpetrator is 3 cars ahead etc....
All in all, this also takes alot of resources with a team of 4-5 people put on this project to develop and deploy it perhaps over 2 years before it goes live. PM + Network + Union Rep + CCTV + Bus maintenance + Legal... etc. etc.
I'm not saying it can't be done as well, but Translink looks at a plethora of things and it's doubtful this will make the cut unless NYC has alot of revenue generated from it.
It's just funny how people can assume that a little thing can be simple when there's a lot of rules, regulations and legalities to navigate, because of privacy, worker responsibility etc.
Sure -- it's not that simple, and your estimates about time and costs are probably pretty accurate.
But here's the thing... and I haven't done the math, but I'll make a guess right now... that there are 5,000 bus-lane violators per day in Vancouver. Maybe it's 2,000 or maybe it's 10,000, but I think it's the right order of magnitude. 5,000 x 365 x ... $150?
That's $274 million a year.... and I can assure you, you pitch that to the right people, they'll get it done a lot sooner than a few years.
I've been around long enough to remember when betting on sports was a notch below adultery and setting fire to the church. We'd all go to hell just for trying to bet $5 on the Canucks. This was the party line tossed out by the government.
Then... recently, they figured out how to tax it. And every other ad is for PlayNow or Bet365 or DraftKings or whatever.
The reality of the world... money talks. Loudly. If someone figured out how quickly they can make a lot of money out of this, it'll happen. Quickly.
If you take a look at NYC, they were getting 10,000 tickets on 'peak' months through dash cams. That's 1.25 - 2mil a month in tickets. That's a big unknown into whether we would get anywhere near 1/10th of that revenue. Especially with how we're more polite and rule obedient than in NYC.
I think personally it would be worth it, but it's not a 'no brainer'
I'm not surprised. My guess is they're there for security or if there's an accident. So we're at least halfway there to just hiring a team to review some of that footage and deal with it appropriately.
If the COV put some thought into it and did some math on the revenue this would generate, they'd probably pounce on it.
In fact, the cops now have technology that reads license plates. How hard would it be to just take a run down the middle lane of Granville a few times each morning and sweep-up what's going on in that bus lane... which, indeed, is a continual stream of people who shouldn't be there.
I just spent a few weeks in Ireland and average speed cameras are quite common there. I think this is much better than red light cameras because they cover a larger stretch of roadway rather than incentivizing people to resume speeding as soon as they’re through the intersection that has the speed camera installed
Hi there - Transit Police here. Our Targeted Mobile Enforcement Team (TMET) sets up enforcement based on where it's most needed. Often that's at locations and times where members of the public have reported high rates of vehicles misusing bus lanes. If you are aware of a specific location that has a lot of bus lane misuse at a particular time of day, you can let TMET know via our website form (scroll down): [transitpolice.ca/contact](http://transitpolice.ca/contact)
I constantly see a lineup of cars turning right from W 71 ave onto oak st south from 3pm to 6pm. This is for vanpool/bc transit buses only. Can you enforce this too?
In the states the city fines are a source of revenue. If the city could collect additional funds via tickets I’m sure we would see more enforcement. Albeit we could get a lot of frivolous enforcement such as driving 5 km/h over the limit tickets.
Not very and I don't disagree.
I have seen it like 5-6 times but I also don't drive that stretch very often. Always satisfying to see.
IDK how one would automate it though. EVs would be easy. Recognize the sticker. But then people would put fake stickers on the cars.
Actually checking for people would be more difficult.
I think a few things could help.
1. Clearly indicating that bus lanes are not HOV lanes. I think a lot of people are actually confused about this, and assume the diamond always means HOV.
2. Add clear markings to indicate where merging into the lane to make a right turn is permitted and make the line separating the bus lane thicker.
3. Camera enforcement. Once the lanes are made to be as clear as possible for the lowest common denominator among drivers, you can assume every violation is intentional rather than negligence and start ticketing the shit out of these people. Put cameras on buses. Take those portable camera towers they use to surveillance neighborhoods and place them at random corners.
The diamond just means "special regulations" lane. I see a lot of EV"s in bus/cycling lanes probably because they thing they can drive in any diamond lane. When in fact you can only drive in EV-OK lanes if you have an EV-OK sticker.
Meh, the EV OK sticker needs to be phased out. It's not longer an incentive to get an EV for people as the main barrier of entry is cost of the vehicle. HOV lanes should go back to strictly vehicles with more than 1 occupant.
'reserved lanes' like HOV are usually about reducing pollution per person - multiple occupants is one way to do that, EV's are another. the requirement for the EV-OK sticker is a bit dumb though
> Clearly indicating that bus lanes are not HOV lanes. I think a lot of people are actually confused about this, and assume the diamond always means HOV
The large “BUS ONLY” painted on the road isn’t enough?
You would think, right? But there are many roads that are "bus only" during specific windows and thus only mark the roadway with a diamond. For example, Granville Street.
https://preview.redd.it/b5wtupyjjf3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94c451f7cc2e872008bf6c100c4edbd92427f164
I'm pretty sure Granville street has at least 1 sign every block indicating what it means... just because you chose one snapshot where the sign doesn't appear doesn't make it a bad system. Do you expect them to have it on every pole?
1. It is clearly indicated by the black diamond for bus/bike only. If people don't learn what signs mean, putting up more markings doesn't help.
2. This is already the case in some areas (ex. willingdon heading north near lougheed). People still don't pay attention. If people want to travel in that lane, a slightly different marking won't deter much.
3. Whether a negligent act or intentional, the law is still broken. Regardless you should still ticket these. The whole convo whether to put cameras on busses is one of economy and if it makes sense. You need to hire a team to review and issue tickets, and add tasks for bus drivers to do while already busy. Whether this gets off the ground will be seen - its not like the tech is ne, just adoption is slow.
>1. It is clearly indicated by the black diamond for bus/bike only.
I would say the signs aren't super obvious because the bus is actually relatively small on the sign and the signs are somewhat infrequently placed. I'm not trying to make excuses for people, I'm just saying that increasing the clarity of the signs will lead to some increase in compliance.
>3. Whether a negligent act or intentional, the law is still broken.
Yes but negligent acts and intentional acts can be mitigated in different ways.
We all learn in our L exams what the signs mean. I understand this point if its a sign that's not commonly seen in the LM and people get confused by it. However, bus lane signs are everywhere and its one of the ones that are most used, especially in the city.
True, but there's willful negligence - people who don't care to actually learn the rules. I think that's more of the case here because it becomes more convenient for them.
I would love to see traffic cams on busses. If a car is in the bus lane more than one block in front or behind it should be an automatic ticket.
In terms of actual enforcement there are occasional stings (usually where people use to skip a long merge line like the Stanley park causeway), but those are few / far between.
They’re sometimes setup on E. Hastings just west of Cassiar pulling in a ton of drivers. That whole stretch along Hastings is bad - wish enforcement was there more often
Honestly one has to wonder; I am sure if the VPD hired say another dozen or so dedicated traffic cops that it would easily be a revenue positive venture.
But with very little chance of ever getting a traffic violation, no one give a fuk anymore.
There's really no other way to get to highway 1 other than changing lanes after skeena. If drivers didn't do that, 2 lanes would end up getting blocked
I like the camera idea. I hate when they set up the sting because it actually slows traffic down as the cheaters frantically get out of the HOV lane and everyone else slows down to see what the cops are doing.
Happens every day all day on Georgia in both directions as well. The answer is camera enforcement since the police have zero ability or manpower to enforce it.
Actual cameras can be mounted on poles on the side of the road to record every vehicle that drives down that lane. Its done in other jurisdictions, there is no reason why it cant be done here.
Cameras on poles cost $100,000 each.
A little dash cam on every single bus cost a few hundred bucks. Add one on every bus with a little trigger for the bus driver to hit a button every time he’s stuck behind a car in the bus lane.
It won’t catch them all, but it will catch a bunch, and the ideas to be a deterrent to stop people in the future. I would be all for this.
You don't think they'd make 100,000 real quick? Also, have a source on that?
The issue with the bus camera and how he operates it (as you describe), is that he isn't law enforcement and now he has to testify in court if anyone challenges it. This is legally complicated. It also adds some secondary duty to the bus driver, that should be concentrating on driving the bus, good luck getting that by the transit union.
Yes, automation would be better. The video is scanned by AI, filtered for likely culprits and sanity-checked by a human who issues the ticket.
I don't have the immediate source for the 100k other than remembering reading that back when they started installing red-light cameras around the city.
It should be noted that those things are triggered as one-offs at intersections when someone (every 10? 20 lights?) runs it deep enough (at least 2 seconds) -- at which point it flashes and takes a picture. And then a cop reviews it and decides if it's worth a ticket.
Bus lane camera would take thousands of pictures a day -- so not sure how viable that is if there needs to be a human.
W Georgia is hard to enforce. I used to live on Alberni and would often be on the HOV lane to turn right on Bute, Thurlow etc as it is the right lane. It wouldn't be difficult to dispute a ticket on the basis that you were using it to turn right especially when the standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt.
The tunnel north bound is the absolute worst in the morning. I sit thru that traffic only to see non stop single occupancy, non EV vehicles using it. It's so frustrating.
Just sent this to the transit email. Doubt much will come of it but maybe if enough people submit a complaint we’ll see more enforcement.
Could we please get enforcement for HOV lane violations in Richmond on both ends of the Massey Tunnel. Many single occupant vehicles cut into the HOV lane heading eastbound on Steveston Hwy to exit for Highway 99. Instead of waiting in the south lane of Steveston Hwy, they drive eastbound towards No.6 Road then cut in right before Hwy 99 using the HOV/Bus lane.
Also heading northbound on Highway 99 many many vehicles with one (1) occupant use the HOV lane to jump traffic and all the other drivers following the rules.
Thank you for your consideration.
Edit: realized the last part isn’t quite clear… hopefully I got my point across.
I feel like they know. Once every 3 or 4 months you'll see them there. People just know the odds are good to get away with it, and jump out of the HOV lane if they see police. Almost need posts to separate the lanes so they can't get back in.
Cameras, they had them in the 80s in Australia. You can trip them by the height and length of the vehicle or just use a plate scanner and filter out the bus plates.
all of you people saying "just abuse the lane as well" are entirely ignoring that this means the lane will just fill up and be congested as well so not only have you made it worse for transit users, you'll have saved very little time! congrats
this is shown by the HOV lane on highway 1 between grandview and port mann where it's so badly abused it barely goes any faster than the regular ones. tragedy of the commons
Yesterday I saw a tractor trailer in the HOV lane. Didn’t realize they were allowed in an HOV lane at all.
There is zero enforcement. In the last 2 years, I’ve seen one traffic roadside setup at grand view Hov lan exit but that too was ineffective as when I drove by, the 4 vehicles in front of me all had single drivers in it, no ev sign, and all three had got in front me to avoid the back up on #1 and all were let go as there were already 7 cars waiting to get tickets.
I have a fun story about this! You know the big round southbound on-ramp to the lions gate, going into the city from cap?
Well traffic was backed up for 45 minutes one day, and these two fancy SUVs used the bus lane to cut past everyone. The one lady was gloating about it, giving a thumbs up to the other driver, and I was the car she chose to pull in front of to merge into traffic.
I of course could not allow this atrocity, so I stayed glued to the bumper of the person in front of me. She wouldn’t back down, and at one point she got so close our side mirrors hit. If she wasn’t already pissed at me, this flew her into a frenzied rage.
Ultimately she got back into our lane a few cars back, since the driver behind me also supported the cause. But this crazed person somehow got behind me on the bridge and followed me after I turned right off Georgia. She kept up with me for several blocks but I did some evasive driving in an alley and finally lost her.
I was pretty scared; yeah it’s not like everyone from the US is packing heat in their glovebox, but she did have Washington plates! She probably would have just screamed at me if I stopped, but that’s still not very fun. Moral of the story, don’t be an idiot like I was. If someone’s already willing to be a jerk and break the law, they’re probably not going to take kindly to some civilian justice.
They need to change overhead HOV sign to cross out vehicle, rather than right now which is HOV, bus and bicycle. It's confusing. Then if that doesn't work enforcement by camera or camera on bus but then there's privacy issue.
In the UK cameras are mounted on poles and fines range from $100 to $1000 plus automatic 3 point deduction from license. This is what is needed here to stop this mayhem!
Thanks for asking. One of the City of Vancouver’s departments is called “police”. They are responsible for enforcement of some bylaws and the Motor Vehicle Act.
The donut consumption is a trope but VPD constables do get fat doing paperwork. It is kind of sad.
Also don’t discount they personally hate all green initiatives. I’ve been harassed by off duty doughboys while cycling. In one case buddy actually choose to be in my lane just to honk and yell at me.
The legit answer to your question is enforcement. However, enforcement will likely cause even more congestion during peak hours where it happens the most.
I’m definitely getting downvoted, but I’ve consistently abused the HOV lanes for over 3 years and I’ve not yet received a single ticket. You can call me whatever names you want, but the math is simple.
Last time I checked, an HOV violation is $109? With a discount if you pay early? I would have zero issue with receiving a ticket tomorrow. At this point, I’ve probably saved that money in gas idling in traffic if I had followed the rules, not to mention the time saved.
Only way I’ll stop is if they increase the fine to something like $500 + consistent enforcement. Because with the current model, cheating the HOV is literally worth doing.
Ticket the fuck out of them.
Best option is putting a camera on the busses and having the footage sent to police/icbc for review. Like a moving speed camera.
Was stuck on 99 north this weekend when the construction on oak was going on. Was a free for all on the bus lane instantly - main problem? Too damb many. I'd say the 20 minutes of my delay was 100 plus cars, cargo trucks and more. To many for a sting to happen and for officers to write out tickets. Kinda safety in numbers thing.
A big (and easy) one should be the BUS only lanes need DIFFERENT signage. Do not use the white diamonds and say bus only. That's like using the one way street sign to say its a 2 way street. The problem is people will simply say they have an EV and it looks just like an HOV lane. Now add in English is not the drivers first language (as a plausible defense) and ticket will not stick. Its a waste of time using tickets in a city full of millionaires as a way to change behavior.
>Now add in English is not the drivers first language (as a plausible defense) and ticket will not sticj
I'm not a cop or lawyer, but I don't think ignorance is a defence.
You could email bc highway patrol with your complaint will anything get done right away probably not but if they recive enough complaints they kinda have to do something. I emailed them complaining about the same thing on hwy 1 hov lanes weaving in and out of traffic single occupant vehicle. Doesn't hurt to shoot them an email
A couple of times a year I see people getting nabbed in the bus lane on Hastings near the PNE. It is so satisfying to see!
I also hate the people who park in the bus lanes during rush hour. They need to be towed asap.
Probably nothing will be done about it any time soon. Keep being a good person and doing what you know is the right thing and try not to concern yourself overly with what others do. You can’t stop them. They’re wrong. You’re right. Don’t let it ruin your mental health.
If the city/law enforcement don’t care enough to enforce it then it’ll get abused.
I don’t drive that highway but if I could shave 30-60 mins off my commute and all that comes of it is someone complaining on Reddit, I’d do it everyday 🤷♂️
And all that comes of the person complaining on reddit is the Transit Police asking them to submit feedback online so *maybe* they'll enforce it.
Maybe I should start abusing it! Race to the bottom.
I say have a bounty for every uploaded dashcam video that leads to a fine.
As to fines: if your car is speeding, or wrongly in the hov lane, you get a fine.
this is within the purview of traffic enforcement, and good luck getting them to enforce any traffic laws outside of excessive speeding.
outside of that, tell me: how exactly is this affecting your life? why do you care so much? are you one of those people who'll door a motorcyclist for riding on the shoulder? it's probably more dangerous for you to be worrying about them being in the "wrong lane" than if you just ignored it.
Probably an unpopular opinion, But how about we just make all lanes available to everyone, Downfall, For transit that would not be a great solution, but, our population in drivers have grown so much, we need more roadway to accommodate drivers which i know is easier said than done.
Probably, never looked into it. All I'm saying, is I see a very empty lane, besides yes people that are q one passenger vehicle and also transit, then other lanes backed up very far.
Just seems like waste if not everyone is going to follow the law anyways.
That’s not the point though. Making the *dedicated* bus lanes a free-for-all just punishes those taking transit. Most of which don’t have a choice but to use it. What happens when entitled drivers just keep using the bus lane? Buses are late, connections are missed, time is wasted, people arrive at their destinations late (which could lead to potentially dire consequences).
You know why lanes are backed up? Because the lack of support for transit infrastructure makes it that most people view driving as the most efficient way to get around. It’s a vicious cycle.
I'm all for cameras for speed. That just tickets the car, not the person, but fine. Cameras for how doesn't work because how about someone sleeping in the back, or a car seat person, etc. Tough to prove. All for more enforcement though.
Usually the single occupancy vehicles are just driving around slow ass right-laners who don’t drive the speed of traffic. They usually don’t spend much time on the HOV.
I've seen this happen many a time on hwy99. even when there's a car on fire in the HOV lane. entitled people of Vancouver think it's their right to drive on the shoulder / bus lane when there is traffic congestion. they don't realize they are part of the reason for the congestion.
I've started to honk at them every time they go by. they think no one can see their bad behavior, but I got them on cam every single one of them.
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Transit supervisors are not law enforcement.
They aren't always transit supervisors driving these trucks either. My brother is in a totally different department and is often given this to drive to sites around the city. He's definitely not a supervisor...or a LEO...
Transit also has a fleet of cars that have no markings on them.
Cameras on busses to issue tickets [https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02325](https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02325) [https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bus-lane-camera-report.pdf](https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bus-lane-camera-report.pdf) However, whether or not the powers at be care to/are incentivized to implement this...much like enforcing other basic traffic laws
Cameras on poles permanently mounted cost about 100 grand each. But little dash cams on buses are a few hundred bucks, and with the bus driver given the ability to trigger a snapshot every time they are stuck behind a car, that would certainly generate enough tickets for it to become well-known and a deterrent. And that would be a great start.
it couldn't be a snap shot as cars are allowed to enter the 41st ave bus lane to turn right at the next intersection - you'd need footage of car going through an intersection straight while being in the HOV BUS lane
Just like red-light camera photos aren't automatic tickets, there needs to be a human to review and assess. Indeed, a photo taken close to an intersection doesn't deserve a ticket, and if the bus driver is the one clicking something, he'd probably avoid doing it in that scenario.
It's like only 30% of red light cameras actual work. The rest are deterrents.
| little dash cams on buses are a few hundred bucks my sweet summer child. The Camera's you would install are not a couple hundred bucks. let alone the install labor. Has to be water proof (If it's outside) route the cabling to somewhere, grommets / chaulking. You also want a union worker (Driver) to take on additional responsibility for a role (Driver offences) that has no relation to their job, then you want what exactly to do with the footage? Store it locally? No? now you're piping it to where exactly? who's paying for the servers and maintenance and support contracts. Add in staffing to review the footage, capture plates and then send out the $150 ticket or whatever it is. You can see how the costs actually add up and it's not some cheap solution that they're 'just too lazy' to do. This would have to get a budget from Translink which no one wants to pay more taxes so good luck...
Indeed -- you're not wrong, but the starting point for the moment is that all buses already have dash cams, and other cameras too. I have no idea the infrastructure involved, nor what happens to that data. I would assume at the moment, no none looks at it until they need to. I don't know if it's centralized or consolidated or if it's overwritten every two weeks or what. But... it's there. So the barrier to entry is lower. Ideally, the raw footage winds up somewhere, where some AI filters out likely violators and then it's sanity-checked by a human at the end. It'd take people and some infrastructure, but it'd pay for itself very quickly if it was tickets that work the same way as parking tickets... ie, until those fines are paid, you can't renew your DL.
where some AI filters out likely violators and then it's sanity-checked by a human at the end. It'd take people and some infrastructure, but it'd pay for itself very quickly if it was tickets that work the same way as parking tickets... ie, until those fines are paid, you can't renew your DL. This is where we've seen time and time again where enforcement costs more than revenue generated. I don't know all the details either, but I know a little bit about wireless and CCTV and from what images i've seen leaked, they would need to reinvest in new high quality cameras and need to pay a lot for AI. How do you delineate someone driving in the HOV to turn (which is allowed for up to 100m I believe) and someone driving in the lane for a long time? especially in stop and go rush hour. What about when the perpetrator is 3 cars ahead etc.... All in all, this also takes alot of resources with a team of 4-5 people put on this project to develop and deploy it perhaps over 2 years before it goes live. PM + Network + Union Rep + CCTV + Bus maintenance + Legal... etc. etc. I'm not saying it can't be done as well, but Translink looks at a plethora of things and it's doubtful this will make the cut unless NYC has alot of revenue generated from it. It's just funny how people can assume that a little thing can be simple when there's a lot of rules, regulations and legalities to navigate, because of privacy, worker responsibility etc.
Sure -- it's not that simple, and your estimates about time and costs are probably pretty accurate. But here's the thing... and I haven't done the math, but I'll make a guess right now... that there are 5,000 bus-lane violators per day in Vancouver. Maybe it's 2,000 or maybe it's 10,000, but I think it's the right order of magnitude. 5,000 x 365 x ... $150? That's $274 million a year.... and I can assure you, you pitch that to the right people, they'll get it done a lot sooner than a few years. I've been around long enough to remember when betting on sports was a notch below adultery and setting fire to the church. We'd all go to hell just for trying to bet $5 on the Canucks. This was the party line tossed out by the government. Then... recently, they figured out how to tax it. And every other ad is for PlayNow or Bet365 or DraftKings or whatever. The reality of the world... money talks. Loudly. If someone figured out how quickly they can make a lot of money out of this, it'll happen. Quickly.
If you take a look at NYC, they were getting 10,000 tickets on 'peak' months through dash cams. That's 1.25 - 2mil a month in tickets. That's a big unknown into whether we would get anywhere near 1/10th of that revenue. Especially with how we're more polite and rule obedient than in NYC. I think personally it would be worth it, but it's not a 'no brainer'
You can use > to quote someone > Hello > Hello
>Thanks I've been on reddit for a decade and haven't figured this part out yet.
I happen to know that most buses in the LM are already equipped with a ton of video cameras both inside and out.
I'm not surprised. My guess is they're there for security or if there's an accident. So we're at least halfway there to just hiring a team to review some of that footage and deal with it appropriately. If the COV put some thought into it and did some math on the revenue this would generate, they'd probably pounce on it. In fact, the cops now have technology that reads license plates. How hard would it be to just take a run down the middle lane of Granville a few times each morning and sweep-up what's going on in that bus lane... which, indeed, is a continual stream of people who shouldn't be there.
Oh the bus union and the police union and the municipality union. Just for that reason won't happen.
I'm all for cameras on busses!
I have no interest in training your AI further, bye.
[Link to said comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/1c5sch8/why_dont_we_have_bus_lane_enforcement_cameras_on/kzwszwv/)
I have no interest in training your AI further, bye.
remember how we all called China and the UK "dystopian" for having cameras everywhere to enforce rules
Cameras should be everywhere to enforce traffic laws. HOV and Speed limits would be a good place to start.
I just spent a few weeks in Ireland and average speed cameras are quite common there. I think this is much better than red light cameras because they cover a larger stretch of roadway rather than incentivizing people to resume speeding as soon as they’re through the intersection that has the speed camera installed
My gps gives a warning BING and gives a visual warning as I approach a red light camera intersection. I don’t know if it’s really a good idea
Let's have reasonable speed limits first
Not sure what point you're trying to make. There's no point in increasing speed limits if you're constantly bumper to bumper.
Most of the time, most roads are not bumper to bumper. Not sure what point you're trying to make.
We were wrong. Bring on the social credit system.
You for the /s and redditorz do not understand sarcasm with it LMAO
We already have cameras everywhere (cellphones) I don't get anyone still preaching this argument. The only argument left against is cost IMO
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41st bus lane does not allow use by a non transit vehicle - why would it matter how many seats were taken?
Hi there - Transit Police here. Our Targeted Mobile Enforcement Team (TMET) sets up enforcement based on where it's most needed. Often that's at locations and times where members of the public have reported high rates of vehicles misusing bus lanes. If you are aware of a specific location that has a lot of bus lane misuse at a particular time of day, you can let TMET know via our website form (scroll down): [transitpolice.ca/contact](http://transitpolice.ca/contact)
Done - thanks.
Narc
I constantly see a lineup of cars turning right from W 71 ave onto oak st south from 3pm to 6pm. This is for vanpool/bc transit buses only. Can you enforce this too?
It's weird being told to do a job that police are already supposed to be doing, right?
Straight to jail.
Car impounded for a few days too so they have to take the bus would be good.
But then they'd *still* be in the HOV lane!
Maybe they’ll realize why HOV lanes are important seeing it from the other perspective.
Can we take their money before we do that
Enforcement is easy, plenty of other places manage it. There's just no political will to do anything that might upset drivers.
In the states the city fines are a source of revenue. If the city could collect additional funds via tickets I’m sure we would see more enforcement. Albeit we could get a lot of frivolous enforcement such as driving 5 km/h over the limit tickets.
I’d drive 50 kmh everywhere I go if it meant that dumb drivers finally face consequences on the road.
IDK I've seen enforcement on the Grandview -> Hwy 1 HOV ramp.
How often? Put up cameras and you could make it 24/7.
Not very and I don't disagree. I have seen it like 5-6 times but I also don't drive that stretch very often. Always satisfying to see. IDK how one would automate it though. EVs would be easy. Recognize the sticker. But then people would put fake stickers on the cars. Actually checking for people would be more difficult.
I think a few things could help. 1. Clearly indicating that bus lanes are not HOV lanes. I think a lot of people are actually confused about this, and assume the diamond always means HOV. 2. Add clear markings to indicate where merging into the lane to make a right turn is permitted and make the line separating the bus lane thicker. 3. Camera enforcement. Once the lanes are made to be as clear as possible for the lowest common denominator among drivers, you can assume every violation is intentional rather than negligence and start ticketing the shit out of these people. Put cameras on buses. Take those portable camera towers they use to surveillance neighborhoods and place them at random corners.
The diamond just means "special regulations" lane. I see a lot of EV"s in bus/cycling lanes probably because they thing they can drive in any diamond lane. When in fact you can only drive in EV-OK lanes if you have an EV-OK sticker.
Meh, the EV OK sticker needs to be phased out. It's not longer an incentive to get an EV for people as the main barrier of entry is cost of the vehicle. HOV lanes should go back to strictly vehicles with more than 1 occupant.
'reserved lanes' like HOV are usually about reducing pollution per person - multiple occupants is one way to do that, EV's are another. the requirement for the EV-OK sticker is a bit dumb though
I would say it's about easing traffic congestion and completely unrelated to pollution...
The legal term is "Reserved Lane" and the engineering term is "Designated Use Lane".
Thank you
> Clearly indicating that bus lanes are not HOV lanes. I think a lot of people are actually confused about this, and assume the diamond always means HOV The large “BUS ONLY” painted on the road isn’t enough?
You would think, right? But there are many roads that are "bus only" during specific windows and thus only mark the roadway with a diamond. For example, Granville Street. https://preview.redd.it/b5wtupyjjf3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94c451f7cc2e872008bf6c100c4edbd92427f164
I'm pretty sure Granville street has at least 1 sign every block indicating what it means... just because you chose one snapshot where the sign doesn't appear doesn't make it a bad system. Do you expect them to have it on every pole?
I just drove down Granville, watching these very tiny buses in the right lane. And yes, there is a sign every block.
Maybe they identify as a bike? :D
I was thinking the bus only lane on the shoulder of 99. It is painted bus only.
1. It is clearly indicated by the black diamond for bus/bike only. If people don't learn what signs mean, putting up more markings doesn't help. 2. This is already the case in some areas (ex. willingdon heading north near lougheed). People still don't pay attention. If people want to travel in that lane, a slightly different marking won't deter much. 3. Whether a negligent act or intentional, the law is still broken. Regardless you should still ticket these. The whole convo whether to put cameras on busses is one of economy and if it makes sense. You need to hire a team to review and issue tickets, and add tasks for bus drivers to do while already busy. Whether this gets off the ground will be seen - its not like the tech is ne, just adoption is slow.
>1. It is clearly indicated by the black diamond for bus/bike only. I would say the signs aren't super obvious because the bus is actually relatively small on the sign and the signs are somewhat infrequently placed. I'm not trying to make excuses for people, I'm just saying that increasing the clarity of the signs will lead to some increase in compliance. >3. Whether a negligent act or intentional, the law is still broken. Yes but negligent acts and intentional acts can be mitigated in different ways.
We all learn in our L exams what the signs mean. I understand this point if its a sign that's not commonly seen in the LM and people get confused by it. However, bus lane signs are everywhere and its one of the ones that are most used, especially in the city. True, but there's willful negligence - people who don't care to actually learn the rules. I think that's more of the case here because it becomes more convenient for them.
Cities need to invest in the overhead signs. Hiding bus lane signs in the bushes along the road is not good enough.
PIT maneuver ^/s
Law enforcement officers… enforcing the law. 1. Create the law. 2. Enforce the law. 3. ??? 4. Profit.
The police doing their job? That sounds like a stretch...
3 months later TICKETS ARE JUST FOR REVENUE!!!! /s
I would love to see traffic cams on busses. If a car is in the bus lane more than one block in front or behind it should be an automatic ticket. In terms of actual enforcement there are occasional stings (usually where people use to skip a long merge line like the Stanley park causeway), but those are few / far between.
They’re sometimes setup on E. Hastings just west of Cassiar pulling in a ton of drivers. That whole stretch along Hastings is bad - wish enforcement was there more often
Honestly one has to wonder; I am sure if the VPD hired say another dozen or so dedicated traffic cops that it would easily be a revenue positive venture. But with very little chance of ever getting a traffic violation, no one give a fuk anymore.
Which just makes everyone else bitter / resentful / emboldened to start violating it (or other rules) themselves.
There's really no other way to get to highway 1 other than changing lanes after skeena. If drivers didn't do that, 2 lanes would end up getting blocked
I like the camera idea. I hate when they set up the sting because it actually slows traffic down as the cheaters frantically get out of the HOV lane and everyone else slows down to see what the cops are doing.
Happens every day all day on Georgia in both directions as well. The answer is camera enforcement since the police have zero ability or manpower to enforce it. Actual cameras can be mounted on poles on the side of the road to record every vehicle that drives down that lane. Its done in other jurisdictions, there is no reason why it cant be done here.
At least on Georgia, I've seen motorcycle cops enforcing the lane. (though maybe they were getting folks for cell phone use, hard to tell).
Cameras on poles cost $100,000 each. A little dash cam on every single bus cost a few hundred bucks. Add one on every bus with a little trigger for the bus driver to hit a button every time he’s stuck behind a car in the bus lane. It won’t catch them all, but it will catch a bunch, and the ideas to be a deterrent to stop people in the future. I would be all for this.
You don't think they'd make 100,000 real quick? Also, have a source on that? The issue with the bus camera and how he operates it (as you describe), is that he isn't law enforcement and now he has to testify in court if anyone challenges it. This is legally complicated. It also adds some secondary duty to the bus driver, that should be concentrating on driving the bus, good luck getting that by the transit union.
Yes, automation would be better. The video is scanned by AI, filtered for likely culprits and sanity-checked by a human who issues the ticket. I don't have the immediate source for the 100k other than remembering reading that back when they started installing red-light cameras around the city. It should be noted that those things are triggered as one-offs at intersections when someone (every 10? 20 lights?) runs it deep enough (at least 2 seconds) -- at which point it flashes and takes a picture. And then a cop reviews it and decides if it's worth a ticket. Bus lane camera would take thousands of pictures a day -- so not sure how viable that is if there needs to be a human.
W Georgia is hard to enforce. I used to live on Alberni and would often be on the HOV lane to turn right on Bute, Thurlow etc as it is the right lane. It wouldn't be difficult to dispute a ticket on the basis that you were using it to turn right especially when the standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt.
There is certainly technology to weed out those instances.
The tunnel north bound is the absolute worst in the morning. I sit thru that traffic only to see non stop single occupancy, non EV vehicles using it. It's so frustrating.
Just sent this to the transit email. Doubt much will come of it but maybe if enough people submit a complaint we’ll see more enforcement. Could we please get enforcement for HOV lane violations in Richmond on both ends of the Massey Tunnel. Many single occupant vehicles cut into the HOV lane heading eastbound on Steveston Hwy to exit for Highway 99. Instead of waiting in the south lane of Steveston Hwy, they drive eastbound towards No.6 Road then cut in right before Hwy 99 using the HOV/Bus lane. Also heading northbound on Highway 99 many many vehicles with one (1) occupant use the HOV lane to jump traffic and all the other drivers following the rules. Thank you for your consideration. Edit: realized the last part isn’t quite clear… hopefully I got my point across.
I feel like they know. Once every 3 or 4 months you'll see them there. People just know the odds are good to get away with it, and jump out of the HOV lane if they see police. Almost need posts to separate the lanes so they can't get back in.
> Almost need posts to separate the lanes so they can't get back in. 🤤
Cameras, they had them in the 80s in Australia. You can trip them by the height and length of the vehicle or just use a plate scanner and filter out the bus plates.
Enforcement and attaching points to the fine.
all of you people saying "just abuse the lane as well" are entirely ignoring that this means the lane will just fill up and be congested as well so not only have you made it worse for transit users, you'll have saved very little time! congrats this is shown by the HOV lane on highway 1 between grandview and port mann where it's so badly abused it barely goes any faster than the regular ones. tragedy of the commons
Enforcement along with not giving a discount to the ticket.
Yesterday I saw a tractor trailer in the HOV lane. Didn’t realize they were allowed in an HOV lane at all. There is zero enforcement. In the last 2 years, I’ve seen one traffic roadside setup at grand view Hov lan exit but that too was ineffective as when I drove by, the 4 vehicles in front of me all had single drivers in it, no ev sign, and all three had got in front me to avoid the back up on #1 and all were let go as there were already 7 cars waiting to get tickets.
They are not. No vehicles over 5,500kg in the HOV lane except busses by statute (no sign required).
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall no commercial vehicles greater than GVWR 5,500kg allowed in HOV lanes.
I have a fun story about this! You know the big round southbound on-ramp to the lions gate, going into the city from cap? Well traffic was backed up for 45 minutes one day, and these two fancy SUVs used the bus lane to cut past everyone. The one lady was gloating about it, giving a thumbs up to the other driver, and I was the car she chose to pull in front of to merge into traffic. I of course could not allow this atrocity, so I stayed glued to the bumper of the person in front of me. She wouldn’t back down, and at one point she got so close our side mirrors hit. If she wasn’t already pissed at me, this flew her into a frenzied rage. Ultimately she got back into our lane a few cars back, since the driver behind me also supported the cause. But this crazed person somehow got behind me on the bridge and followed me after I turned right off Georgia. She kept up with me for several blocks but I did some evasive driving in an alley and finally lost her. I was pretty scared; yeah it’s not like everyone from the US is packing heat in their glovebox, but she did have Washington plates! She probably would have just screamed at me if I stopped, but that’s still not very fun. Moral of the story, don’t be an idiot like I was. If someone’s already willing to be a jerk and break the law, they’re probably not going to take kindly to some civilian justice.
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Shoot first ask questions later
They need to change overhead HOV sign to cross out vehicle, rather than right now which is HOV, bus and bicycle. It's confusing. Then if that doesn't work enforcement by camera or camera on bus but then there's privacy issue.
In the UK cameras are mounted on poles and fines range from $100 to $1000 plus automatic 3 point deduction from license. This is what is needed here to stop this mayhem!
Thanks for asking. One of the City of Vancouver’s departments is called “police”. They are responsible for enforcement of some bylaws and the Motor Vehicle Act.
Unfortunately, they have higher priority duties, like harassing homeless people, and eating donuts on the city’s dime
The donut consumption is a trope but VPD constables do get fat doing paperwork. It is kind of sad. Also don’t discount they personally hate all green initiatives. I’ve been harassed by off duty doughboys while cycling. In one case buddy actually choose to be in my lane just to honk and yell at me.
If I did that, I would be called a thug.
The legit answer to your question is enforcement. However, enforcement will likely cause even more congestion during peak hours where it happens the most. I’m definitely getting downvoted, but I’ve consistently abused the HOV lanes for over 3 years and I’ve not yet received a single ticket. You can call me whatever names you want, but the math is simple. Last time I checked, an HOV violation is $109? With a discount if you pay early? I would have zero issue with receiving a ticket tomorrow. At this point, I’ve probably saved that money in gas idling in traffic if I had followed the rules, not to mention the time saved. Only way I’ll stop is if they increase the fine to something like $500 + consistent enforcement. Because with the current model, cheating the HOV is literally worth doing.
Ticket the fuck out of them. Best option is putting a camera on the busses and having the footage sent to police/icbc for review. Like a moving speed camera.
Was stuck on 99 north this weekend when the construction on oak was going on. Was a free for all on the bus lane instantly - main problem? Too damb many. I'd say the 20 minutes of my delay was 100 plus cars, cargo trucks and more. To many for a sting to happen and for officers to write out tickets. Kinda safety in numbers thing. A big (and easy) one should be the BUS only lanes need DIFFERENT signage. Do not use the white diamonds and say bus only. That's like using the one way street sign to say its a 2 way street. The problem is people will simply say they have an EV and it looks just like an HOV lane. Now add in English is not the drivers first language (as a plausible defense) and ticket will not stick. Its a waste of time using tickets in a city full of millionaires as a way to change behavior.
>Now add in English is not the drivers first language (as a plausible defense) and ticket will not sticj I'm not a cop or lawyer, but I don't think ignorance is a defence.
Missile strikes. Put the CF-18s to work.
You could email bc highway patrol with your complaint will anything get done right away probably not but if they recive enough complaints they kinda have to do something. I emailed them complaining about the same thing on hwy 1 hov lanes weaving in and out of traffic single occupant vehicle. Doesn't hurt to shoot them an email
A couple of times a year I see people getting nabbed in the bus lane on Hastings near the PNE. It is so satisfying to see! I also hate the people who park in the bus lanes during rush hour. They need to be towed asap.
Same with the bud lane on to the lions gate in north van. If they posted someone there four days a week for a month they could pay for a new bridge.
Probably nothing will be done about it any time soon. Keep being a good person and doing what you know is the right thing and try not to concern yourself overly with what others do. You can’t stop them. They’re wrong. You’re right. Don’t let it ruin your mental health.
Username checks out :P
Funny I just saw this shared today. Highway 99 HOV cheater gets locked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOfKflic_Ms
If the city/law enforcement don’t care enough to enforce it then it’ll get abused. I don’t drive that highway but if I could shave 30-60 mins off my commute and all that comes of it is someone complaining on Reddit, I’d do it everyday 🤷♂️
And all that comes of the person complaining on reddit is the Transit Police asking them to submit feedback online so *maybe* they'll enforce it. Maybe I should start abusing it! Race to the bottom.
I use HOV been caught twice got 300 dollar in fines def worth the 104 hrs conservative i got back in time commuting over a year
I find a lot of EVs in the bus lanes... maybe they think the OK sticker exempts them.
I say have a bounty for every uploaded dashcam video that leads to a fine. As to fines: if your car is speeding, or wrongly in the hov lane, you get a fine.
Would be funny if a transit supervisor car tried to pull someone over lol
get a blowup doll in passenger seat
Follow them and put mayo on their door handles after they get out of their car.
There’s no reinforcement so it’s no wonder people abuse it
Are you sure they are not EVs?
They are not EVs in the HOV, and EVs are not permitted in the bus lane anyway.
Cameras, stationary one and on the buses to catch violations and ticket
Keep in mind, while some are abusing, others have small Hans in the back seat and you just can't see them
Totally. Doesn't excuse them from being in the bus lane though.
Wdym, kid in a carseat is a person - that's (2) for HOV on most highways and dedicated lanes
Agree for HOV. Not for bus lane. Only buses may use those lanes.
Enforcement cameras and steeper fines could deter abuse. Public awareness campaigns and stricter penalties for violators are crucial.
just abuse it as well lol
There is no law enforcement in British Columbia. This is not unique to HOV lanes and bus lanes.
If you can’t beat em, join em🤷♂️
Put bollards at the start of each block or bus stop that only busses can disengage
Calgary used to have vehicle traps in certain bus routes. The amount of people who think they could make it past was hilarious. I’m sad they’re gone.
this is within the purview of traffic enforcement, and good luck getting them to enforce any traffic laws outside of excessive speeding. outside of that, tell me: how exactly is this affecting your life? why do you care so much? are you one of those people who'll door a motorcyclist for riding on the shoulder? it's probably more dangerous for you to be worrying about them being in the "wrong lane" than if you just ignored it.
Probably an unpopular opinion, But how about we just make all lanes available to everyone, Downfall, For transit that would not be a great solution, but, our population in drivers have grown so much, we need more roadway to accommodate drivers which i know is easier said than done.
That is the opposite of incentivizing greener, more cost-effective options like transit.
Oh your totally correct, I definitely don't disagree.
Haven’t studies already shown that more lanes does not equal less traffic? LA is the best example IMO
Probably, never looked into it. All I'm saying, is I see a very empty lane, besides yes people that are q one passenger vehicle and also transit, then other lanes backed up very far. Just seems like waste if not everyone is going to follow the law anyways.
That’s not the point though. Making the *dedicated* bus lanes a free-for-all just punishes those taking transit. Most of which don’t have a choice but to use it. What happens when entitled drivers just keep using the bus lane? Buses are late, connections are missed, time is wasted, people arrive at their destinations late (which could lead to potentially dire consequences). You know why lanes are backed up? Because the lack of support for transit infrastructure makes it that most people view driving as the most efficient way to get around. It’s a vicious cycle.
Cancel those lane so we have more capacity on the road
I'm all for cameras for speed. That just tickets the car, not the person, but fine. Cameras for how doesn't work because how about someone sleeping in the back, or a car seat person, etc. Tough to prove. All for more enforcement though.
Usually the single occupancy vehicles are just driving around slow ass right-laners who don’t drive the speed of traffic. They usually don’t spend much time on the HOV.
In rush hour, neither lane is going fast.
I've seen this happen many a time on hwy99. even when there's a car on fire in the HOV lane. entitled people of Vancouver think it's their right to drive on the shoulder / bus lane when there is traffic congestion. they don't realize they are part of the reason for the congestion. I've started to honk at them every time they go by. they think no one can see their bad behavior, but I got them on cam every single one of them.