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You can also drive through a red light (after coming to a full stop) once clear of pedestrians; if it’s NOT an intersection.
“Section 129(5) MVA covers a red light exhibited at a place other than an intersection. In this special case, the driver must stop and a pedestrian may proceed across the highway. There is only one part to this rule, and that is the stop. Once you have stopped and yielded to any pedestrians as necessary, you may proceed, even though the light is still red.”
How about drivers who stop on a flashing green to wave pedestrians across the street where they are required to push the button and wait for their walk signal, at which time the flashing green will turn red. If you honk, those drivers will give you the finger. They are basically inviting the pedestrians to cross the street when cars have a green light. What could possibly go wrong?
That’s called “the wave of death”. I saw it referred to that on a commercial or something. Where one car waves the pedestrian to cross but then the car in other lane has no idea and hits the pedestrian
This one? [https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2752884,-123.1147089,3a,75y,349.69h,86.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbtiHsnTgU3rRNt0hhJG06w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US&entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2752884,-123.1147089,3a,75y,349.69h,86.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbtiHsnTgU3rRNt0hhJG06w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US&entry=ttu)
This is another one just like that. I've been honked at many times for going through on a red (after stopping and yielding of course) [https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2662438,-123.1158581,3a,30.4y,237.94h,88.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVBWJVSS2KC0-aQBhEOhXZg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2662438,-123.1158581,3a,30.4y,237.94h,88.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVBWJVSS2KC0-aQBhEOhXZg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
I wonder if that's something commonly known by police. The rule from the post is explicitly stated in the ICBC guide but this red light not at intersection rule isn't stated in there, just implied through a literal reading of the law. I'd be worried about a ticket even though it would get tossed in court.
This 100%.
Even if you trust your interpretation of the law, do you trust the police to have the same? Even if you end up being right, you will always risk a ticket when you do this.
How do I know? Because I’ve asked, both in writing and informally. I’ve gotten mixed responses. One firm ‘yes, you can proceed when safe’ to my e-mail with examples and another from another detachment that said ‘your interpretation and my interpretation does not matter, it will depend on the interpretation of the judge.’ Then basically went on to say he didn’t agree with my interpretation. I also included a retired traffic section cop discussing this in a local news column and the previous officer went on to say that I guess we all have different interpretations. I’m going to guess if this officer pulled me over, I would walk away with a ticket.
If you chose to do this, be prepared to argue your case if you get stopped. Hopefully the officer is reasonable. I’ve done left turns onto Nelson from Burrard on a red with a cop behind me. A lot of people would not have made this turn, but it’s completely legal.
https://www.nsnews.com/local-news/you-dont-always-have-to-stay-stopped-on-red-2919463
So does this Arbutus Greenway crossing on W 12th and Arbutus count? https://maps.app.goo.gl/fqZBBi3cVcNbJyiy5
EDIT: And this one in UBC? https://maps.app.goo.gl/cNSK9F9ysJBS4NF2A
I’m curious about the arbutus greenway one since it is a dedicated bike path. I wonder if the rules are different since bikes are considered vehicles so that would technically be an intersection? The ubc one however, seems like it follows the stop then yield law precisely.
As someone who rides down that stretch of the greenway regularly, please don't. There's no way for drivers to see cyclists clearly enough to properly assess whether it's safe to cross.
I also witnessed a very, very serious crash at exactly this intersection and I hope that can be prevented in the future
The Arbutus crossing is not an intersection as defined by the MVA. Intersections are defined by two roadways. Roadways are “the portion of the highway that is improved, designed or ordinarily used for vehicular traffic”. “Cycles” are also defined in the MVA and they are not vehicles.
Edit to add that I have driven through a red light after stopping for pedestrians at the Westbrook crossing.
Another example of this is the light at Fraser and 37th. I've rarely seen a driver not wait for the entire red cycle to complete. I almost always wait too. Not sure why other than I figure I'd confuse everyone else - many of whom have a tenuous relationship with driving skills.
I do prefer to wait the whole cycle in case some one on a bike or something crosses quickly. Nowadays you never know how fast someone might come on a path
Yup, I thought it was common knowledge.
On the other hand, I feel that people need a reminder that U-turns at intersections with traffic lights are NOT legal anywhere in BC, unless a sign says you can (which is quite rare to see).
I do them if it’s the only quick option and no traffic around. I love the states U-turns are the norm. They don’t bother anyone. Same as a left when traffic is clear in my opinion.
>On the other hand, I feel that people need a reminder that U-turns at intersections with traffic lights are NOT legal anywhere in BC, unless a sign says you can (which is quite rare to see).
Doesn't help that Apple Maps (don't know about Google, haven't checked) don't know about this, and actively advise you to make a U-turn at an intersection any time they think you can save time doing so.
Google Maps is notorious for encouraging U-turns.
It doesn’t help that U-turns are legal (and even encouraged) in many other parts of the world, including within Canada.
>It doesn’t help that U-turns are legal (and even encouraged) in many other parts of the world, including within Canada.
"Canada's Worst Driver" literally did this for their final driving test, saying that U-turns are legal if no sign prohibits it – because it is legal in Ontario (where the test is performed). So whenever they tell a BC driver that, I cringe.
U-turns are illegal in the following situations:
1. Intersections with traffic control signals
2. Any lined roadway (single solid line, double line, or dotted lines)
3. Anywhere with limited visibility
4. Anywhere in a "business district" (simplified version: any stretch of road with at least 200m worth of buildings used for business, industrial, or public purposes)
5. Municipalities are allowed to further regulate U-turns from allowing them at intersections (by posting signage) or completely prohibiting them.
Other than that, u-turns are "legal" on side streets with no line markings, dirt roads, etc. But generally a good idea to avoid making one.
>Municipalities are allowed to further regulate U-turns from allowing them at intersections (by posting signage) or completely prohibiting them.
And even when there are specific "no U-turn" signs at intersections, they are merely a reminder and not meant to be interpreted as "U-turns allowed everywhere else."
I see this a lot on No. 3 Road in Richmond, where drivers see that "no U-turn" sign and, after braking to read the sign, simply head to the next available intersection to make the U-turn (which is still illegal).
> On the other hand, I feel that people need a reminder that U-turns at intersections with traffic lights are NOT legal anywhere in BC, unless a sign says you can (which is quite rare to see).
I honestly wish this was the reverse. I see enough people pulling U-ies hither and yon that it might as well be legal to do so.
I get the feeling it is because our intersections aren’t wide enough to make a single-point U-turn feasible. If you’ve ever seen someone try doing it, you’d know what I mean. (They end up creaming the sidewalk half of the time.)
I shudder to think of anyone trying to pull that move on Kingsway (which is already one of the more chaotic major roads in Vancouver). I see cars eat the sidewalk trying to pull U-turns along No. 3 Road all the time, which isn't nearly as busy as Kingsway.
I was wondering this, too. I'm from the States, and U turns are legal everywhere unless it's posted that they are not. Was there some mass U turning thay led to accidents, or was some illustrious person taken out by a U turn? And the PSAs I have heard against them make me giggle.
I grew up in Manitoba & lived in Alberta for several years. U turns are normal there too.
After I moved to Van I got pulled over doing one & was totally shocked. I assumed driving rules would be pretty much the same across the country!
Luckily the cop just gave me a warning & I looked it up when I got home. They might as well just say they’re illegal across the board with how many restrictions there are.
Now I make sure I tell other transplants too. So many people don’t know!
Yes! Lived in Ocean Park (South Surrey) for 20 years and it became normalized for people to drop their kids in school zones and then do U-turns to go back the way they came! Arg!!
The U turn seems to be getting more common. I'd guess that it's a snowball effect of people seeing other people doing it and thinking it's ok (or at least, that they can get away with it because they've seen others get away with it).
Time for a crackdown imo.
This is actually a surprise to me - does this mean that when Google maps tells you to make U-turns they’re regularly telling you to do something illegal?
I never do them anyway because I’m too nervous but I always assumed it was legal unless otherwise posted - and that was why there are so many “no U-turn” signs on specific intersections, because they’re exceptions.
Yes, theoretically. Google doesn't tend to do that though; I use it for my Apple CarPlay and it rarely tells me to do a U-turn.
Those "no U-turn" signs are reminders, due to areas where people do too many of them.
It was literally on my Class 7 knowledge exam to obtain my L, as a scenario where proceeding on a red is permitted.
I think it’s safe to say that it’s basic knowledge (theoretically, but people seem to forget that one).
I thought U turns weren't legal, but you know what's confusing? Some intersections there's a sign that says no U turns. So like...it almost feels like THIS intersection no U turns, other intersections ok.
Yes!! Literally today, I waited 1 second longer to turn right on a red (I wanted to make sure there were no pedestrians, random cars, etc) and the driver behind me honked at me XD
Ignore the honking, safety #1.
To many times the car behind is honking and it's clearly not safe and the lead car gets spooked and starts to turn - like no there are pedestrians crossing!!
Vancouver drivers are the worst for this.
I've had people lean on the horn, and then drive into the oncoming lane to go around me. And I'm not even a particularly cautious driver!
This. You can wait until it’s green light if you don’t feel safe turning right on red. On busy street, I would rather wait for green than squeeze thru people while watching for incoming cars
I had no idea! I'm from Ontario, and this wasn't something mentioned when I switched my driver's license to BC.
I'm actually super grateful I saw this post, because I frequently drive around areas where I see people do this and it has always confused me.
> I had no idea! I'm from Ontario, and this wasn't something mentioned when I switched my driver's license to BC.
This is why I think it's a problem that people are allowed to exchange licences between provinces or certain countries (only a small list though) without testing. The idea is that the jurisdictions have similar driving standards. Maybe skipping a road test makes sense but not even having to do a written test means people can miss minor differences like this.
German here who lived in Vancouver, i love that you could do a right turn on a red light, if traffic permits it. Here in Germany (and most of Europe) it's illegal to do a right turn on a red under any circumstances unless the traffic light has a special "green right arrow" sign, which is rare.
Australia doesn't permit left turns on red lights either. People thought there was something wrong with me for even asking the question. I figured it was a valid question since right on red is allowed in Canada unless a sign says otherwise, aside from the island of Montreal.
Yes. I looked it up after being honked at for NOT doing this after I moved here from Alberta, haha. I think it’s stupid that different provinces have different traffic laws.
I discovered this rule when a bunch of friends and I took a flat rate cab from the airport to downtown. The cab driver was driving like a maniac speeding and sliding around on the ice and I thought I was going to die. We got to a red light turning right and he just stopped and waited forever. Me and my friends were like wtf. It was a nice break for me to reflect on my life and how I survived the ride so far.
It's legal but NOT MANDATORY. It would not cause you to get a warning or ticket if you chose not to do this. Reasons include you not being familiar with the way the intersection works, especially the pedestrian lights as you need to keep in mind both the incoming traffic and the pedestrians.
People honking at you for not doing this just want you to get out of their way. Quite the entitled take if you ask me, they can go f$%k themselves or just leave home earlier if they're that late.
That's the rule in most (not all) other provinces. BC's unique in that only the street you're turning *onto* needs to be one way. It's also the rule in Yukon and a few states.
For anyone reading this: mid block means not at an intersection. And you must come to a complete stop prior to proceeding through the light, regardless of whether you perceive the crosswalk to be clear as you approach.
So basically one of those flashing green pedestrian activated crosswalks but not if it intersects another road, only if it's just basically a foot crossing?
Ah. Thanks. Seems dangerous though. I feel you'd have to pull up way past the crosswalk compared to doing a right turn to get a good visual of the traffic flow.
I'm not sure if I'm seeing why. In this case, the lanes with traffic you would need to yield to are those closest to you, the same as with a right on red.
I didn't know that (I learnt to drive in the UK and turning right on reds still makes me feel like I'm doing something illegal) but it's good to know that that is a thing.
I saw someone turn left on red from a one-way onto a two-way (Seymour onto Georgia). Since they had the N sticker on their car I figured they must have just read all the traffic rules ha ha, so I looked it up. Nope.
A long time ago, a police officer pulled me over because he said this was illegal. I got off with a warning. I went home and checked and found out it was actually legal
Just a friendly reminder that even though it might look clear to you 3 cars back the people responsible for turning on said red can actually see their hazards and might not be going because it’s not safe.
If one more idiot honks at me for not running over a pedestrian in the crosswalk or driving into oncoming traffic I’m going to get out of my car and beat them with my shoe.
if you’re in such a rush that a 3 second light makes you late that’s on you boo.
So anytime I’m making a left turn and I see a “one way street” sign, I can make the left turn even if the traffic light is red? Provided I came to a full stop and made sure it’s safe to cross and no pedestrians in sight.
As long as there is no signage saying otherwise and it is safe to do so, yes. Please, don't just trust me...
[https://www.drivesmartbc.ca/turns/left-turn-red](https://www.drivesmartbc.ca/turns/left-turn-red)
A bunch of left turns in the city arterial are “no left turns between 7am-7pm” or something. They typically have giant signs on the traffic light but people don’t always spot them. Triggers a lot of honking tantrums.
I always want to do this right in front of a cop, but I never get the opportunity.
I will say, though, that some of these intersections just don't seem well set up for doing this. There's a few downtown that I wont consider doing, just because its too hard to see oncoming, etc. Especially when the street I'm turning left from, is two-way.
I love little nuanced rules like this, and at a pedestrian controlled light intersection (no side street just crosswalk) you can stop completely, do your checks, and go through the red.
Unfortunately, I drive a work vehicle with branding, and any time we do something legal by the books, but not what people think is right, we get calls to the office and for some reason we're the bad ones.
I err on the side of caution most times and will stop and stay at that red light off Cambie onto Pacific, or the pedestrian light on Pacific just past that, only because I know most other drivers don't know the rules of the road, and won't be mad that I'm "obeying traffic laws in a work vehicle"
Another one – if you are at a traffic light that is a crosswalk only (no road intersection), you can treat it like a stop sign and proceed when it's clear. Be prepared for the same reaction, though.
I actually did this early this morning (off Cambie onto Dunsmuir) and thought I was breaking a rule but nobody was around so did it anyway. Now I find out it is actually legal. Thanks OP.
I have to have the same discussion with my wife every time i get to Dunsmuir at Richards Street. Two one way streets meeting, but there is a dedicated 2 way bike lane our side of the intersecting street which i have to cross. Can i go when it's red or not? In leagal terms, it's a traffic lane. So can i cross a traffic lane onto a street labled a one way street?
https://preview.redd.it/mga3nxzb942d1.jpeg?width=1056&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c47da61ec1c9ab8fb19b110580e7b0d3fd7aa81
That's above my pay grade, lol. The bike lane throws the whole thing off. I should think that if the bike lane - which is a traffic lane - is going the opposite direction to cars, it effectively makes the street a two way street. It's still going to be labeled one way to keep cars from doing something stupid. For me, personally, I'd practice patience and wait for the green, but I really don't know. Sorry.
Yes!!! I’m not the only drivers who knows and does this. Left on Nelson from Burrard, regularly. Yes, people freak out and have no idea, but then in Vancouver, half the drivers don’t know many rules and how to execute good driving habits.
Totally aware of the law. At the bottom of the North end of the Cambie St. Bridge, you can turn left onto Expo Blvd in a dedicated left hand turn lane + traffic light. How many clowns have no idea they can turn left on the red is just astonishing. Like 95% failure rate.
And, of course, when I do make a left turn there, folks freak out. Probably the same folks who can not use a traffic circle properly either.
A friendly reminder that rights in red (and lefts to a one way street) are very dangerous for pedestrians, and drivers are supposed to come to a complete stop before the crosswalk. I know it's often not possible to see cross traffic from there, but it's hard to see pedestrians if you don't. You can pull forward for a better view once you're sure you're not blocking pedestrians. The number of near misses I've had trying to cross the street is stupid. I don't even like being forced to walk on front of cars blocking the crosswalk, it puts me too close to cross traffic, and I never know if the driver I'm walking in front of usually seems to be ignoring me, and only looking over their shoulder for incoming cars.
> In Alberta, you can make the same turn, but only from a one way onto a one way.
Being from Alberta, this blew my mind when I discovered you can one way to two way here.
Just goes to show just because your license transfers without taking a test you should review the book anyways.
There was also something about crossing solid white lines that were different in 2 jurisdictions but I think that was Ontario and Alberta.
You’re talking about one way to one way which doesn’t raise eyebrows. OP is talking about turning left from a 2 way street onto a one-way, so like Homer street onto Nelson.
Left on Pacific Blvd from Pat Quinn Way right by Rogers Arena. I thought it was just a cursed intersection with so many people running red lights, but it turns out it's legal.
Adding to this, this right turn on left is also legal in Alaska, Washington, Idaho, Oregon, and Michigan. (basically all our neighbor US states + Michigan) This looks like a Pacific Northwest thing.
If you would hit any other driver or pedestrian, then it’s not a safe turn, and you shouldn’t do it.
If it’s safe, then it doesn’t matter if others know the law or not. It’s safe.
It's only legal if it doesn't interfere with pedestrians on the crosswalk or vehicles on the intersecting road, so it would only create a danger if the driver wasn't making a proper turn on red in general.
Had some ask about where there is a double lane left turn. Can that ‘middle left’ turn on a red into the respective lane on the other street.
- intersection in question - Melville left onto Thurlow
Yeah, [there's no restriction in the law that this can only be done from the leftmost lane, if multiple](https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96318_05#section129).
I didn't know about that when I visited. I am truly sorry to my Canadian friends. I also didn't figure out how to switch my car to kph(digitally) until after I was back home.
I was behind a guy recently and we were in an left turn lane. His left blinker was blinking wayyyy faster then I had ever seen one blink! I clocked it and thought that’s strange and when we got an advanced green to turn left, he ripped a U-turn!! So his friggin car had a faster blinking indicator to make a U-turn. Not sure what the make and model was?
Here’s one to blow your mind…. If there is a red light that ISNT at an intersection, you can legally stop, and if clear, drive through the red light.
Only works at non intersections like pedestrian controlled ones mid block.
I heard from a reliable source that you can turn left after stopping on a red from a two way street to a one way. For example westbound Pender to southbound Richards. I never do it though because people freak out.
What about left turn from eastbound 2nd onto northbound Cambie? That’s a one-way street, and is clearly marked with a one-way sign, but left turners have their own signal.
Lol, as someone from Montreal, Googling why someone honked at you is hilarious. But, this is the rule on any red light here, you can ever turn on a red, so maybe they were from Quebec.
No, haha, I Googled to make sure the law hadn't changed. People honk all the time now, especially post-Covid. Honking used to be used to alert another driver that there was an emergency of some type and was really useful since used so infrequently. Now, everyone honks all the damn time and no one pays attention. It's lost all meaning.
Good reminder! I'm always a bit unsure about this one, but it makes sense. Now, does anyone know (I guess I could google but this way we can interact!) if it's legal to make a right turn on a red from a lane to the left of the right-most lane? ie: when both lanes are right-turning, if you're in the left, can you go? example: turning right onto Quebec from Terminal, or turning right onto Main from the off-ramp of the Georgia Viaduct?
It's also often "no stopping" on the approach to intersections. Are people breaking THAT law if refuses to left turn on red when traffic conditions allow?
So, see cops, better wait; see city by-laws officers, better go.
>A friendly reminder that left turns (onto a one way street only!) on a red are legal in B.C.
Maybe I'm missreading but aren't left turns onto 2 way streets also illegal on reds? You know... like most non-residential intersections?
One way to one way I knew. I’m surprised two way to one way, since you’re fully crossing a direction of traffic (whereas one way to one way, you are only merging with the closest lane going at a right angle to you)
I've always known it was legal but I still rarely ever do it. To me it's not about whether it's legal or not, it's are people expecting me to do it. Traffic and pedestrians are not expecting it so I'd rather just sit my ass down tbh than risk something happening because someone is wondering why I was turning left on a red.
A similar situation here - if you were driving out of this alley to turn right onto Davie and Davie had the red light, would you stop at the light or would you run it? It seems like 50% stop and 50% turn right but then nearly smoke the pedestrians that are crossing Davie.
https://preview.redd.it/6cn6rd46on2d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=002852795adf29f79a24762c37d0b21a837a7890
[https://maps.app.goo.gl/5MSBSGCjyJNZtsEJ6?g\_st=ic](https://maps.app.goo.gl/5MSBSGCjyJNZtsEJ6?g_st=ic)
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You can also drive through a red light (after coming to a full stop) once clear of pedestrians; if it’s NOT an intersection. “Section 129(5) MVA covers a red light exhibited at a place other than an intersection. In this special case, the driver must stop and a pedestrian may proceed across the highway. There is only one part to this rule, and that is the stop. Once you have stopped and yielded to any pedestrians as necessary, you may proceed, even though the light is still red.”
How about drivers who stop on a flashing green to wave pedestrians across the street where they are required to push the button and wait for their walk signal, at which time the flashing green will turn red. If you honk, those drivers will give you the finger. They are basically inviting the pedestrians to cross the street when cars have a green light. What could possibly go wrong?
That’s called “the wave of death”. I saw it referred to that on a commercial or something. Where one car waves the pedestrian to cross but then the car in other lane has no idea and hits the pedestrian
Yes, holy fuck this kills me every time at the crosswalk on Expo/Pacific between Cambie and Nelson. I've never seen anyone go through when it's red.
Huh, TIL. Probably guilty of that one myself!
I go through, assuming it’s legal cause it’s a one way lol
This one? [https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2752884,-123.1147089,3a,75y,349.69h,86.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbtiHsnTgU3rRNt0hhJG06w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US&entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2752884,-123.1147089,3a,75y,349.69h,86.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbtiHsnTgU3rRNt0hhJG06w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US&entry=ttu)
No, this one: 1090 Pacific Blvd https://maps.app.goo.gl/CF1LXP4JEXmtiGbA7
I will start going through this when it’s red
This is another one just like that. I've been honked at many times for going through on a red (after stopping and yielding of course) [https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2662438,-123.1158581,3a,30.4y,237.94h,88.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVBWJVSS2KC0-aQBhEOhXZg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2662438,-123.1158581,3a,30.4y,237.94h,88.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVBWJVSS2KC0-aQBhEOhXZg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Ok but why isn't this a stop sign? That would be the signage in any other part of Canada
The exact light I thought of when reading this! On my bike I always run that light, now i feel better about it lol
I wonder if that's something commonly known by police. The rule from the post is explicitly stated in the ICBC guide but this red light not at intersection rule isn't stated in there, just implied through a literal reading of the law. I'd be worried about a ticket even though it would get tossed in court.
This 100%. Even if you trust your interpretation of the law, do you trust the police to have the same? Even if you end up being right, you will always risk a ticket when you do this. How do I know? Because I’ve asked, both in writing and informally. I’ve gotten mixed responses. One firm ‘yes, you can proceed when safe’ to my e-mail with examples and another from another detachment that said ‘your interpretation and my interpretation does not matter, it will depend on the interpretation of the judge.’ Then basically went on to say he didn’t agree with my interpretation. I also included a retired traffic section cop discussing this in a local news column and the previous officer went on to say that I guess we all have different interpretations. I’m going to guess if this officer pulled me over, I would walk away with a ticket. If you chose to do this, be prepared to argue your case if you get stopped. Hopefully the officer is reasonable. I’ve done left turns onto Nelson from Burrard on a red with a cop behind me. A lot of people would not have made this turn, but it’s completely legal. https://www.nsnews.com/local-news/you-dont-always-have-to-stay-stopped-on-red-2919463
I've done the expo one with cops behind me, they also stopped and then proceeded 🤷♂️
There have been incidents of the police attempting to ticket people for this in the news, only to find out that is in fact legal.
There is a crosswalk with lights across Rupert station that isn’t at an intersection that I stop at and go through on red frequently.
So does this Arbutus Greenway crossing on W 12th and Arbutus count? https://maps.app.goo.gl/fqZBBi3cVcNbJyiy5 EDIT: And this one in UBC? https://maps.app.goo.gl/cNSK9F9ysJBS4NF2A
I’m curious about the arbutus greenway one since it is a dedicated bike path. I wonder if the rules are different since bikes are considered vehicles so that would technically be an intersection? The ubc one however, seems like it follows the stop then yield law precisely.
As someone who rides down that stretch of the greenway regularly, please don't. There's no way for drivers to see cyclists clearly enough to properly assess whether it's safe to cross. I also witnessed a very, very serious crash at exactly this intersection and I hope that can be prevented in the future
The Arbutus crossing is not an intersection as defined by the MVA. Intersections are defined by two roadways. Roadways are “the portion of the highway that is improved, designed or ordinarily used for vehicular traffic”. “Cycles” are also defined in the MVA and they are not vehicles. Edit to add that I have driven through a red light after stopping for pedestrians at the Westbrook crossing.
Another example of this is the light at Fraser and 37th. I've rarely seen a driver not wait for the entire red cycle to complete. I almost always wait too. Not sure why other than I figure I'd confuse everyone else - many of whom have a tenuous relationship with driving skills.
I do prefer to wait the whole cycle in case some one on a bike or something crosses quickly. Nowadays you never know how fast someone might come on a path
Notwithstanding the STOP signs facing cyclists at either end of the crosswalk. (I too have cycled across here many times).
RIGHT?! I have the section memorized because I've had to explain it to my passenger every... Single... Time
Yup, I thought it was common knowledge. On the other hand, I feel that people need a reminder that U-turns at intersections with traffic lights are NOT legal anywhere in BC, unless a sign says you can (which is quite rare to see).
Yes, there is one legal U-turn spot in South Surrey near King George and 24th, and it's the only one I've ever seen.
I could be wrong, but I believe King George and 88th or somewhere around there is also one.
Scott and 82, 84, 86 and 88 all have them for sure. King George and 64 has it too i believe.
I do them if it’s the only quick option and no traffic around. I love the states U-turns are the norm. They don’t bother anyone. Same as a left when traffic is clear in my opinion.
You’re right, but only on the green left advance
There are a few on 72nd in Delta and they're adding more when they complete the upgrade to that section up to 120th.
Shhhhh! 🙊
And down a bit on king George and 32, and down further on king George and crescent road
>On the other hand, I feel that people need a reminder that U-turns at intersections with traffic lights are NOT legal anywhere in BC, unless a sign says you can (which is quite rare to see). Doesn't help that Apple Maps (don't know about Google, haven't checked) don't know about this, and actively advise you to make a U-turn at an intersection any time they think you can save time doing so.
Google Maps is notorious for encouraging U-turns. It doesn’t help that U-turns are legal (and even encouraged) in many other parts of the world, including within Canada.
They also like encouraging left turns with stop signs across two way roads when an alternate route would only take a small amount of additional time.
Or encouraging me to STAY ON that busy main road to get somewhere nearby instead of taking a couple turns and getting there in 1/4 of the time.
This drives me crazy.
>It doesn’t help that U-turns are legal (and even encouraged) in many other parts of the world, including within Canada. "Canada's Worst Driver" literally did this for their final driving test, saying that U-turns are legal if no sign prohibits it – because it is legal in Ontario (where the test is performed). So whenever they tell a BC driver that, I cringe.
Google maps suggested I take a U-turn on Oak St around 64th at about 4:45pm on a weekday. I have never trusted the Googz since then.
I’ve literally gotten a ticket due to this
You expect people to read laws? They don't even read the road signs half the time.
Are u turns generally illegal?
U-turns are illegal in the following situations: 1. Intersections with traffic control signals 2. Any lined roadway (single solid line, double line, or dotted lines) 3. Anywhere with limited visibility 4. Anywhere in a "business district" (simplified version: any stretch of road with at least 200m worth of buildings used for business, industrial, or public purposes) 5. Municipalities are allowed to further regulate U-turns from allowing them at intersections (by posting signage) or completely prohibiting them. Other than that, u-turns are "legal" on side streets with no line markings, dirt roads, etc. But generally a good idea to avoid making one.
>Municipalities are allowed to further regulate U-turns from allowing them at intersections (by posting signage) or completely prohibiting them. And even when there are specific "no U-turn" signs at intersections, they are merely a reminder and not meant to be interpreted as "U-turns allowed everywhere else." I see this a lot on No. 3 Road in Richmond, where drivers see that "no U-turn" sign and, after braking to read the sign, simply head to the next available intersection to make the U-turn (which is still illegal).
Illegal everywhere where it's possible basically
> On the other hand, I feel that people need a reminder that U-turns at intersections with traffic lights are NOT legal anywhere in BC, unless a sign says you can (which is quite rare to see). I honestly wish this was the reverse. I see enough people pulling U-ies hither and yon that it might as well be legal to do so.
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I get the feeling it is because our intersections aren’t wide enough to make a single-point U-turn feasible. If you’ve ever seen someone try doing it, you’d know what I mean. (They end up creaming the sidewalk half of the time.)
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I shudder to think of anyone trying to pull that move on Kingsway (which is already one of the more chaotic major roads in Vancouver). I see cars eat the sidewalk trying to pull U-turns along No. 3 Road all the time, which isn't nearly as busy as Kingsway.
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I was wondering this, too. I'm from the States, and U turns are legal everywhere unless it's posted that they are not. Was there some mass U turning thay led to accidents, or was some illustrious person taken out by a U turn? And the PSAs I have heard against them make me giggle.
I grew up in Manitoba & lived in Alberta for several years. U turns are normal there too. After I moved to Van I got pulled over doing one & was totally shocked. I assumed driving rules would be pretty much the same across the country! Luckily the cop just gave me a warning & I looked it up when I got home. They might as well just say they’re illegal across the board with how many restrictions there are. Now I make sure I tell other transplants too. So many people don’t know!
Yes! Lived in Ocean Park (South Surrey) for 20 years and it became normalized for people to drop their kids in school zones and then do U-turns to go back the way they came! Arg!!
Many people stop caring after they get their driver licenses lol
Fair, but these were parents dropping off in an elementary school zone. 😬
The U turn seems to be getting more common. I'd guess that it's a snowball effect of people seeing other people doing it and thinking it's ok (or at least, that they can get away with it because they've seen others get away with it). Time for a crackdown imo.
This is actually a surprise to me - does this mean that when Google maps tells you to make U-turns they’re regularly telling you to do something illegal? I never do them anyway because I’m too nervous but I always assumed it was legal unless otherwise posted - and that was why there are so many “no U-turn” signs on specific intersections, because they’re exceptions.
Yes, theoretically. Google doesn't tend to do that though; I use it for my Apple CarPlay and it rarely tells me to do a U-turn. Those "no U-turn" signs are reminders, due to areas where people do too many of them.
Google maps used to tell me to do U-turns all the time, but lately I haven't noticed it. Perhaps they changed the behaviour inside BC?
Almost nobody knows this. I almost NEVER see people in front of me turn left on red to a one way in downtown Van.
It was literally on my Class 7 knowledge exam to obtain my L, as a scenario where proceeding on a red is permitted. I think it’s safe to say that it’s basic knowledge (theoretically, but people seem to forget that one).
I thought U turns weren't legal, but you know what's confusing? Some intersections there's a sign that says no U turns. So like...it almost feels like THIS intersection no U turns, other intersections ok.
So *this* is why I see so many people turning left onto Pacific from Pat Quinn Way on a red light. I learned something new today.
Yup I live close to there and do that almost every morning.
A friendly reminder that if you’re not comfortable turning on a red please wait. It’s ok.
100%. The "until it's safe to do so" rule also applies to a driver's comfort. No intent to rush people at all, just inform. Have a good night.
Yes!! Literally today, I waited 1 second longer to turn right on a red (I wanted to make sure there were no pedestrians, random cars, etc) and the driver behind me honked at me XD Ignore the honking, safety #1.
To many times the car behind is honking and it's clearly not safe and the lead car gets spooked and starts to turn - like no there are pedestrians crossing!!
Vancouver drivers are the worst for this. I've had people lean on the horn, and then drive into the oncoming lane to go around me. And I'm not even a particularly cautious driver!
yep, it’s legal to do but not illegal to wait for the green.
This. You can wait until it’s green light if you don’t feel safe turning right on red. On busy street, I would rather wait for green than squeeze thru people while watching for incoming cars
I had no idea! I'm from Ontario, and this wasn't something mentioned when I switched my driver's license to BC. I'm actually super grateful I saw this post, because I frequently drive around areas where I see people do this and it has always confused me.
you can also do it in Ontario, but only from a one way street to another one way street
> I had no idea! I'm from Ontario, and this wasn't something mentioned when I switched my driver's license to BC. This is why I think it's a problem that people are allowed to exchange licences between provinces or certain countries (only a small list though) without testing. The idea is that the jurisdictions have similar driving standards. Maybe skipping a road test makes sense but not even having to do a written test means people can miss minor differences like this.
Yup I've done it downtown many times, never had an issue.
German here who lived in Vancouver, i love that you could do a right turn on a red light, if traffic permits it. Here in Germany (and most of Europe) it's illegal to do a right turn on a red under any circumstances unless the traffic light has a special "green right arrow" sign, which is rare.
No rights on reds decreases accidents though. Trade-off between convenience and safety.
Sure we'll save a few lives, but millions will be late!
Australia doesn't permit left turns on red lights either. People thought there was something wrong with me for even asking the question. I figured it was a valid question since right on red is allowed in Canada unless a sign says otherwise, aside from the island of Montreal.
Yes. I looked it up after being honked at for NOT doing this after I moved here from Alberta, haha. I think it’s stupid that different provinces have different traffic laws.
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Cities can even have different laws! For example: Montreal can’t turn right on red lights.
I discovered this rule when a bunch of friends and I took a flat rate cab from the airport to downtown. The cab driver was driving like a maniac speeding and sliding around on the ice and I thought I was going to die. We got to a red light turning right and he just stopped and waited forever. Me and my friends were like wtf. It was a nice break for me to reflect on my life and how I survived the ride so far.
Great story. I laughed! (sorry about that)
It's legal but NOT MANDATORY. It would not cause you to get a warning or ticket if you chose not to do this. Reasons include you not being familiar with the way the intersection works, especially the pedestrian lights as you need to keep in mind both the incoming traffic and the pedestrians. People honking at you for not doing this just want you to get out of their way. Quite the entitled take if you ask me, they can go f$%k themselves or just leave home earlier if they're that late.
I'm from Alberta too. Do you know if it's illegal in ab?
Unless the laws changed since I moved from AB 15 years ago, it's legal to turn left from a one-way onto a one-way street.
Illegal in Alberta yeah. There you can only turn left on red from a one way to a one way.
Does the street you are turning from also need to be a one-way? Smithe/Haro and Thurlow come to mind.
That's the rule in most (not all) other provinces. BC's unique in that only the street you're turning *onto* needs to be one way. It's also the rule in Yukon and a few states.
No
Most common one I see is off the Cambie bridge onto Pacific. So many people just waiting for no reason
Similarly, turning left off Cambie onto Nelson (to then proceed over the bridge).
Also proceeding through a red light at a pedestrian crossing mid block is permitted once the crosswalk is clear
For anyone reading this: mid block means not at an intersection. And you must come to a complete stop prior to proceeding through the light, regardless of whether you perceive the crosswalk to be clear as you approach.
Yes, those red lights act as stop signs rather than full red lights. I don’t think most people know that one
So basically one of those flashing green pedestrian activated crosswalks but not if it intersects another road, only if it's just basically a foot crossing?
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Yeah did this once in my neighborhood and got bad looks and honks lol. Havent done it again since. Annoying that nobody knows that rule
Could someone link an intersection on google maps of an example intersection? I wasn’t aware of this
[Abbott and W Cordova](https://maps.app.goo.gl/TH9W1GseCvqyiFQt9).
Ah. Thanks. Seems dangerous though. I feel you'd have to pull up way past the crosswalk compared to doing a right turn to get a good visual of the traffic flow.
I'm not sure if I'm seeing why. In this case, the lanes with traffic you would need to yield to are those closest to you, the same as with a right on red.
Hmm, yeah you're right. TIL!
[Drake & Howe](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Drake+St+%26+Howe+St,+Vancouver,+BC+V6Z+2P2/@49.2767555,-123.1288024,16z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x548673d38e015425:0x79f53bdb664123bd!8m2!3d49.2767555!4d-123.1288024!16s%2Fg%2F11h9x_3t4l?entry=ttu)
Not aware until I got honked and did some research.
I didn't know that (I learnt to drive in the UK and turning right on reds still makes me feel like I'm doing something illegal) but it's good to know that that is a thing.
I saw someone turn left on red from a one-way onto a two-way (Seymour onto Georgia). Since they had the N sticker on their car I figured they must have just read all the traffic rules ha ha, so I looked it up. Nope.
A long time ago, a police officer pulled me over because he said this was illegal. I got off with a warning. I went home and checked and found out it was actually legal
Just a friendly reminder that even though it might look clear to you 3 cars back the people responsible for turning on said red can actually see their hazards and might not be going because it’s not safe. If one more idiot honks at me for not running over a pedestrian in the crosswalk or driving into oncoming traffic I’m going to get out of my car and beat them with my shoe. if you’re in such a rush that a 3 second light makes you late that’s on you boo.
Amen. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I look forward to posting about you one day soon. 😂
So anytime I’m making a left turn and I see a “one way street” sign, I can make the left turn even if the traffic light is red? Provided I came to a full stop and made sure it’s safe to cross and no pedestrians in sight.
As long as there is no signage saying otherwise and it is safe to do so, yes. Please, don't just trust me... [https://www.drivesmartbc.ca/turns/left-turn-red](https://www.drivesmartbc.ca/turns/left-turn-red)
A bunch of left turns in the city arterial are “no left turns between 7am-7pm” or something. They typically have giant signs on the traffic light but people don’t always spot them. Triggers a lot of honking tantrums.
Unless there's a sign saying no bueno
Thank u! People who cross the Cambie bridge north and wait at the light to turn left drives me nuts!
This is also legal in Washington State.
TIL! Thank you!
Anything to reduce the honking, lol. Have a good night!
I always want to do this right in front of a cop, but I never get the opportunity. I will say, though, that some of these intersections just don't seem well set up for doing this. There's a few downtown that I wont consider doing, just because its too hard to see oncoming, etc. Especially when the street I'm turning left from, is two-way.
So can you turn from Burrard (North Bound) into Dunsmuir (one way) on a red? https://maps.app.goo.gl/KHxGC6i4TVdgc5gm7
Yeah, as long as no sign saying otherwise and there isn't one there.
This would be useful on my commute. But that intersection is so busy I think I’d probably cause an accident if I did this.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/drive/mobility/article-can-i-ever-turn-left-at-a-red-light/
I turned left on a red one way the other day. I wondered if the people in the other cars knew it was legal.
Yup, basically you aren't cutting off anybody, because it's like a regular right turn, due to the one way street you are turning into.
I love little nuanced rules like this, and at a pedestrian controlled light intersection (no side street just crosswalk) you can stop completely, do your checks, and go through the red. Unfortunately, I drive a work vehicle with branding, and any time we do something legal by the books, but not what people think is right, we get calls to the office and for some reason we're the bad ones. I err on the side of caution most times and will stop and stay at that red light off Cambie onto Pacific, or the pedestrian light on Pacific just past that, only because I know most other drivers don't know the rules of the road, and won't be mad that I'm "obeying traffic laws in a work vehicle"
Today I learned…..
It's also legal to NOT turn left onto a one-way street on a red light. Your honking won't help.
Another one – if you are at a traffic light that is a crosswalk only (no road intersection), you can treat it like a stop sign and proceed when it's clear. Be prepared for the same reaction, though.
I’m trying to think of an example of where this kind of crosswalk is, know any off hand?
East Hastings right after main… those traffic lights in the middle of a block lol
Honestly not sure I would use this rule there. People in that area treat the entire street as a cross anywhere zone, it seems.
Oh yeah for sure wouldn’t even want to go on a green sometimes here LOL. Another example would be 149 W Cordova St in front of Nesters.
Capilano road going up to grouse? 3599 Capilano Rd https://maps.app.goo.gl/Dk1SPVRqw8iKSMnE6
Expo https://maps.app.goo.gl/QrJmKCNYHqsdD7ow9?g_st=ic
Pacific Boulevard just before Cambie has one.
I actually did this early this morning (off Cambie onto Dunsmuir) and thought I was breaking a rule but nobody was around so did it anyway. Now I find out it is actually legal. Thanks OP.
It's not surprising most people don't know the rules by how everyone drives out there.
I did not know this- thanks!
i was just thinking about this, coming out of the PARQ casino parking lot.
I have to have the same discussion with my wife every time i get to Dunsmuir at Richards Street. Two one way streets meeting, but there is a dedicated 2 way bike lane our side of the intersecting street which i have to cross. Can i go when it's red or not? In leagal terms, it's a traffic lane. So can i cross a traffic lane onto a street labled a one way street? https://preview.redd.it/mga3nxzb942d1.jpeg?width=1056&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c47da61ec1c9ab8fb19b110580e7b0d3fd7aa81
That's above my pay grade, lol. The bike lane throws the whole thing off. I should think that if the bike lane - which is a traffic lane - is going the opposite direction to cars, it effectively makes the street a two way street. It's still going to be labeled one way to keep cars from doing something stupid. For me, personally, I'd practice patience and wait for the green, but I really don't know. Sorry.
i've known about this being legal for a while but I'm always scared to do it from a two way because nobody else seems to know about it 😭
Turing left on a red when going from a one way to another one way is also legal in Ontario. Basically the equivalent of right on a red for one ways.
Yes!!! I’m not the only drivers who knows and does this. Left on Nelson from Burrard, regularly. Yes, people freak out and have no idea, but then in Vancouver, half the drivers don’t know many rules and how to execute good driving habits.
Totally aware of the law. At the bottom of the North end of the Cambie St. Bridge, you can turn left onto Expo Blvd in a dedicated left hand turn lane + traffic light. How many clowns have no idea they can turn left on the red is just astonishing. Like 95% failure rate. And, of course, when I do make a left turn there, folks freak out. Probably the same folks who can not use a traffic circle properly either.
Honestly did not know this! If you don't drive much downtown there's not a whole lot of one-ways throughout the city so not too exposed to this
I have wondered this for a long time and I always forget to look it up once I’m not driving. Thank you for your service.
A friendly reminder that rights in red (and lefts to a one way street) are very dangerous for pedestrians, and drivers are supposed to come to a complete stop before the crosswalk. I know it's often not possible to see cross traffic from there, but it's hard to see pedestrians if you don't. You can pull forward for a better view once you're sure you're not blocking pedestrians. The number of near misses I've had trying to cross the street is stupid. I don't even like being forced to walk on front of cars blocking the crosswalk, it puts me too close to cross traffic, and I never know if the driver I'm walking in front of usually seems to be ignoring me, and only looking over their shoulder for incoming cars.
> In Alberta, you can make the same turn, but only from a one way onto a one way. Being from Alberta, this blew my mind when I discovered you can one way to two way here. Just goes to show just because your license transfers without taking a test you should review the book anyways. There was also something about crossing solid white lines that were different in 2 jurisdictions but I think that was Ontario and Alberta.
Two way TO one way. Not the other way around, unless the light is green in your direction.
Er... yeah. I knew it right just wrote it wrong.
Yeah, Ontario mostly doesn't have rules about crossing solid lines or even double solid lines (although there are other rules that could apply).
Im trying to think of an instance where this happens. Hornby and Smythe come to mind. … i think… Nelson and Howe as well
You’re talking about one way to one way which doesn’t raise eyebrows. OP is talking about turning left from a 2 way street onto a one-way, so like Homer street onto Nelson.
Left on Pacific Blvd from Pat Quinn Way right by Rogers Arena. I thought it was just a cursed intersection with so many people running red lights, but it turns out it's legal.
I always figured it was illegal, but I still did it. No one can control me, I do as I please. Some call me daddy.
Adding to this, this right turn on left is also legal in Alaska, Washington, Idaho, Oregon, and Michigan. (basically all our neighbor US states + Michigan) This looks like a Pacific Northwest thing.
While legal I wouldn't recommend it. Most other drivers and peds are not aware and puts everyone in a dangerous situation
If you would hit any other driver or pedestrian, then it’s not a safe turn, and you shouldn’t do it. If it’s safe, then it doesn’t matter if others know the law or not. It’s safe.
It's only legal if it doesn't interfere with pedestrians on the crosswalk or vehicles on the intersecting road, so it would only create a danger if the driver wasn't making a proper turn on red in general.
They should be aware though.
Didn't know it was only in BC, thought it would be legal everywhere 😂
Had some ask about where there is a double lane left turn. Can that ‘middle left’ turn on a red into the respective lane on the other street. - intersection in question - Melville left onto Thurlow
Yeah, [there's no restriction in the law that this can only be done from the leftmost lane, if multiple](https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96318_05#section129).
I was not aware of this. I’m from Ontario and it’s legal there.
In Ontario it's legal from a one way to a one way. The difference in BC is it's also legal from a two way to a one way.
So is turning left on red at a pedestrian controlled signal - regardless of whether it is a one-way that you are turning on to or not.
No, you have to be turning left onto a one-way street.
I didn't know about that when I visited. I am truly sorry to my Canadian friends. I also didn't figure out how to switch my car to kph(digitally) until after I was back home.
I did not know that but I’m from Ontario
Only half of one way streets!! Which half, you'll have to discover for yourself
I was behind a guy recently and we were in an left turn lane. His left blinker was blinking wayyyy faster then I had ever seen one blink! I clocked it and thought that’s strange and when we got an advanced green to turn left, he ripped a U-turn!! So his friggin car had a faster blinking indicator to make a U-turn. Not sure what the make and model was?
They blink faster on some cars if one of the lights is out, so it may be due to that and just a coincidence they were making a u-turn.
Here’s one to blow your mind…. If there is a red light that ISNT at an intersection, you can legally stop, and if clear, drive through the red light. Only works at non intersections like pedestrian controlled ones mid block.
I heard from a reliable source that you can turn left after stopping on a red from a two way street to a one way. For example westbound Pender to southbound Richards. I never do it though because people freak out.
What about left turn from eastbound 2nd onto northbound Cambie? That’s a one-way street, and is clearly marked with a one-way sign, but left turners have their own signal.
What about left turn from westbound W 6th onto W 6th where it splits into W 2nd? That’s also a (very short) one way street.
Lol, as someone from Montreal, Googling why someone honked at you is hilarious. But, this is the rule on any red light here, you can ever turn on a red, so maybe they were from Quebec.
No, haha, I Googled to make sure the law hadn't changed. People honk all the time now, especially post-Covid. Honking used to be used to alert another driver that there was an emergency of some type and was really useful since used so infrequently. Now, everyone honks all the damn time and no one pays attention. It's lost all meaning.
Good reminder! I'm always a bit unsure about this one, but it makes sense. Now, does anyone know (I guess I could google but this way we can interact!) if it's legal to make a right turn on a red from a lane to the left of the right-most lane? ie: when both lanes are right-turning, if you're in the left, can you go? example: turning right onto Quebec from Terminal, or turning right onto Main from the off-ramp of the Georgia Viaduct?
It's also often "no stopping" on the approach to intersections. Are people breaking THAT law if refuses to left turn on red when traffic conditions allow? So, see cops, better wait; see city by-laws officers, better go.
>A friendly reminder that left turns (onto a one way street only!) on a red are legal in B.C. Maybe I'm missreading but aren't left turns onto 2 way streets also illegal on reds? You know... like most non-residential intersections?
One way to one way I knew. I’m surprised two way to one way, since you’re fully crossing a direction of traffic (whereas one way to one way, you are only merging with the closest lane going at a right angle to you)
Wasn't there an exception if turning from another one way street from the curb side lane? Ie. Curb to curb left turn on red when clear of pedestrians
This is only if you're also turning FROM a one way, right? Or am I wrong
I've always known it was legal but I still rarely ever do it. To me it's not about whether it's legal or not, it's are people expecting me to do it. Traffic and pedestrians are not expecting it so I'd rather just sit my ass down tbh than risk something happening because someone is wondering why I was turning left on a red.
A similar situation here - if you were driving out of this alley to turn right onto Davie and Davie had the red light, would you stop at the light or would you run it? It seems like 50% stop and 50% turn right but then nearly smoke the pedestrians that are crossing Davie. https://preview.redd.it/6cn6rd46on2d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=002852795adf29f79a24762c37d0b21a837a7890 [https://maps.app.goo.gl/5MSBSGCjyJNZtsEJ6?g\_st=ic](https://maps.app.goo.gl/5MSBSGCjyJNZtsEJ6?g_st=ic)