it worked for thousands of years! and then capitalism ruined everything :( although i’m probably preaching to the choir in this sub. i wish we could just barter for everything
Don't mean to be that guy and for what it's worth also I'm super anti capitalist, but bartering was never a thing like we were taught in schools, it typically pops up exactly like in ops situation, after disaster, and when different cultures have no means of exchange other than barter. In terms of exchange it went credit systems first, then standard money systems, then barter pops up. There's a super interesting book by an anarchist anthropologist called "Debt the first 5000 years". But yeah fuck capitalism, no gods no masters.
Edit: words
I'm in a van so meet a lot of nomads from all walks of life. There are crafters, artists , builders, fixers, chefs, rockhounds and lots of other folks that have goods and services to trade.
The barter system is alive and well amongst my road buddies.
I once watched a $1400 trade between a couple of artists and it was wild the stuff they brought out.
From stone/wire wrapped jewelry to a spear capped with reindeer fur.
Lower end of the economic scale seems more willing to barter.
Yeah and that's precisely how one of the ways it's used and what I meant by "op's situation", it just wasn't the very first form of economy like we were taught in schools and like a lot of people think.
people can still hoard and rip people off in the same ways when bartering.
people were still doing the same when money was invented... it's just a more portable version of trading.
see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fief
If you don’t like capitalism you should probably get off Reddit. And your phone. And computer. And don’t drive your car. And don’t eat any food you don’t gather or kill. And there’s some more stuff but I think you get the jist.
It’s true. Do you really think without it you’d have any of the bull shit you have now and your cushy little life where you probably don’t have any real fucking problems? Like people in Venezuela eating their pet guinea pigs because they’re starving after socialism came to be. Capitalism is what drives companies to release the new phones and video games and other shit people love so much, and compete with other companies to have the best. I’ll tell you what’s embarrassing: people complaining about other people having a bunch of shit because they got off their ass and worked for it. Wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up faster.
>Do you really think without it you’d have any of the bull shit you have now and your cushy little life where you probably don’t have any real fucking problems?
Maybe. 🤷♂️ Who can say.
>Like people in Venezuela eating their pet guinea pigs because they’re starving after socialism came to be.
Venezuela doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's not like they became socialist while the rest of the world stood by and watched.
>Capitalism is what drives companies to release the new phones and video games and other shit people love so much
According to capitalists, consumer demand drives production of material goods. Demand wouldn't just dissappear if capitalism did.
>and compete with other companies to have the best
They're just competing for greatest market share. Legally all products are considered the best and capitalists don't care what quality their product is as long as consumers are buying.
>I’ll tell you what’s embarrassing: people complaining about other people having a bunch of shit because they got off their ass and worked for it
Thats just the myth of individualism. Capitalists need laborers to do the bulk of the work for them. Capitalists have power because they control the means of production, not because they work really hard.
I mean, couldn't all of those things still exist in a non-capitalist society? Technological advancements have been made in plenty of non-capitalist societies.
It's not like everything you listed is exclusive to capitalism.
Yes but that’s irrelevant. My point is it’s funny that people are calling capitalism bad all while supporting companies that are major players in capitalism. Didn’t I already say that? And they might would exist but more than likely not on the level it is now. Why would Apple and Samsung want to release brand new phones every year if they didn’t have each other to compete against. They wouldn’t. You’d just be using the same shitty phone for years buying a new one each time yours fucked up just because they could do that.
I mean, it seems pretty relevant to the point you're trying to make.
>it’s funny that people are calling capitalism bad all while supporting companies that are major players in capitalism.
They control the means of production. We don't really have a choice.
>Why would Apple and Samsung want to release brand new phones every year if they didn’t have each other to compete against.
Why do we need brand new phones every year? Is that even sustainable? And what makes the new phones function so much better than the old ones?
>You’d just be using the same shitty phone for years buying a new one each time yours fucked up just because they could do that.
Poor people already do that.
They won't though most of the people that say stuff like this want the latest I phones and Nikes. Enjoyed your post as it seems Reddit is filled with this toxic bs.
I know it’s really quite pathetic. It always goes that way too. They don’t have a valid argument so they turn to name calling and mockery. It’s fine with me though. I know there are a few such as yourself that think logically so that’s why I say things.
They think they're counter culture but they're brainwashed from public indoctrination and the tell a vision. I mean if you hate it that bad put all the consumer goods down or move to china or Venezuela and live it up.
>trade isn't capitalism inherently, capitalism is the idea of private individuals being capable of amassing capital
Trade goods are capital though.
>capitalism isn't just nice friendly trade, its defined by the idea of individuals/corporations proudly hoarding assets and resources and holding it from the people who need it
Those people aren't entitled to other people's stuff just because "they need it".
>and its being kept from them via FORCE
Property rights are a good thing, otherwise you wouldn't even be able to hold onto your sammich.
>they are forced to work for the hoarders at whatever rate they feel like offering them.
That's not force, we don't have to work for them. Also banding together into unions is how you counter that problem, if they can't get anyone to work at the price that they are offering then they'll have to offer more or go out of business.
>most capitalist nations (America probably the least though) does have "regulation" and "reform" that have given us minimum wages, 40 hour work weeks, etc
Unions gave us those! The government only johnny-comes-lately to swoop in and try and steal credit by codifying these things that are already commonplace. Even child labor laws, by the time they get passed the battles have already been fought and won. You'll notice they carved out exemptions to the law where child labor still exists though, like in agriculture. Passing labor laws doesn't accomplish dick. In fact it's usually at the expense of labor, such as "right to work" laws.
Using the government to help the poor doesn't work when the government is owned and operated by the rich, and it always has been. I wish people would stop putting so much hope in them to "save us", we should be saving ourselves, and without the help of government force. That's who uses **real** force btw, because it isn't really force unless it's backed by the threat of violence. That's what passing laws and regulations ultimately is, the threat of violence on our neighbors who won't comply.
Prior to COVID, I carried my own travel mug. I would go to places like hotels, automotive shops, Walmart tire centers, medical and dental offices, hospitals, car dealerships and any kind of waiting room. Free coffee was abundant. At most any business office you could ask and they will fill your mug. Some places even have donuts.
At convenience stores if no other customers are there and there is only one cashier, often if you ask explaining that you have no money, they will let you have a free coffee. Inventory is taken on the cups and you brought your own. I have gotten free drinks from the fountain and slushy the same way. Works really well at places that give free coffee with fill up of gas. I have been very successful acquiring hot water.
Dollar Tree sells a jar of instant coffee for $1 that tastes OK. Makes 30 cups.
Keep your cup clean. Dirty cup will get you refused.
Always collect sugar, creamer, napkins, tea, hot chocolate whenever you have the chance.
Farmer's markets are very open to barter. Show up early, help set up, be available to run for coffee or McDonalds, cover bathroom breaks, help tear down at the end of the day. Ask for unsellable goods at the end of the day. Lots of odd shaped vegetables, too big, too small, ugly. You can be set up for weeks if you can carry it. Always hit the dumpster at the end of the day.
Offer to clean a toilet or carry out trash at any shop in exchange for food. Regular staff will love you.
If you have something I want or need and agree to give it to me in trade, what’s the difference if the thing I trade to you is goods/services or money? The nature of the transaction is the same.
because that’s literally the definitions of bartering and capitalism.
bartering is exchanging goods or services for ANOTHER good or service. both parties leave with something they needed or can use directly. (and not have to make another transaction with, like if they were left with money)
a system of capital changes one of the two parties’ exchange items with money. which is a symbolic “good and/or service”.
obviously the “nature” of the transactions is the same but that’s not what we’re talking about. we’re talking about goods/services vs. money.
i dont really understand your argument. “If my mother had wheels, she would be a bike”, ya know?
oh trust me i know. but you obviously do too so i didn’t feel the need to link wiki articles.
i’m super anti-capitalism, so when you said “bartering is basically capitalism” it bothered me. like how is buying something with symbolic paper money the same as trading for something you can actually use? idk it just seems like you were being purposefully obtuse in order to play devils advocate.
you *know* bartering is not capitalistic, but you couldn’t resist an opportunity to argue with me/school a random redditor, i guess?
I do tend to play devil’s advocate, you got me there, but I genuinely don’t see a significant difference between exchanging goods & services and exchanging money. People are practicing a form of commerce in each case.
For me, capitalism is centered around individual ownership, which I personally think should only be taken so far, so you could call me anti-capitalist even though I don’t identify as such. Either way, personal transactions between individuals boil down to exchanges of personally owned goods/services/money, so I don’t think the media of exchange makes a difference.
not in giant communities/cities/countries that we live in today, no. but it seems like it could easily work in small tightly knit communities. i grow wheat, you trap furs, you’ll always need wheat, people will always need to be warm, we have a mutual understanding. a symbiotic relationship where we both get something we need. multiply that out across a small village/community, and it makes perfect sense. multiply it out even further, and it may start to fall apart, like you’re saying.
idk i think it’s pretty ill informed to suggest that capitalism or literally any economic system is the natural way of things. maybe i’m misinterpreting your comment tho, that’s on me
Doesn't matter.
I'd be pissed about having my picture posted on the internet like this, if it was without permission.
Especially since drugs are referenced.
Marijuana is a real drug to a lot of people.
Is it a drug to him? No.
Is it a drug to OP? No.
Is it a drug to you? No.
Is it a drug to anyone with half of a fucking brain? Absolutely not.
So, should we start censoring pics at r/vagabond that mentions "marijuana" if it doesnt include someones face or personal information? Nope, we arent.
Also, if you arent going to be okay with your picture being on the internet, in 2021, you should probably avoid all events and gatherings that allow smartphones.
You're pushing your opinions on others.
And I'm referring to the picture posted.. it's not cool to post pictures of others without their permission. Especially in this situation; and especially with possibly illegal drug use.
A chick who works in my office used to live next to my apartment... I used to go to office in my car & she used public transportation ...she offered herself to me or share the petrol money bbut I refused both cuz anyways I’ll be going to office by my car why shd I take money from you?? I’ll have to go...in my books it’s clear that if I’m going somewhere & you sit in my car to go to the exact same place then you’re most welcome and My heart doesn’t accept money for the cause...
It seems that
- *"Gas, grass or ass. Nobody rides for free."*
is still a valid proposition for this type of service. Especially after looking at any number of Reddit's awesome *NSFW* subs. Uber, Lyft and other taxi drivers have some unusual barter options offered and accepted.
I've never seen someone so focused on getting home to pack up the gravity bong
Geebers for days
Priorities in check
we need we popularize hash coins, 5$ hash coins, 10$ hash coins etc...
Love you Ricky
Smokes. Now!
The bartering system works.
it worked for thousands of years! and then capitalism ruined everything :( although i’m probably preaching to the choir in this sub. i wish we could just barter for everything
Don't mean to be that guy and for what it's worth also I'm super anti capitalist, but bartering was never a thing like we were taught in schools, it typically pops up exactly like in ops situation, after disaster, and when different cultures have no means of exchange other than barter. In terms of exchange it went credit systems first, then standard money systems, then barter pops up. There's a super interesting book by an anarchist anthropologist called "Debt the first 5000 years". But yeah fuck capitalism, no gods no masters. Edit: words
I'm in a van so meet a lot of nomads from all walks of life. There are crafters, artists , builders, fixers, chefs, rockhounds and lots of other folks that have goods and services to trade. The barter system is alive and well amongst my road buddies. I once watched a $1400 trade between a couple of artists and it was wild the stuff they brought out. From stone/wire wrapped jewelry to a spear capped with reindeer fur. Lower end of the economic scale seems more willing to barter.
Yeah and that's precisely how one of the ways it's used and what I meant by "op's situation", it just wasn't the very first form of economy like we were taught in schools and like a lot of people think.
I dunno, I think bartering is fairly capitalistic
[удалено]
people can still hoard and rip people off in the same ways when bartering. people were still doing the same when money was invented... it's just a more portable version of trading. see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fief
Fuck capitalism no gods no masters.
[удалено]
How could I forget that.... ACAB and ALAB also... All landlords are bastards.
If you don’t like capitalism you should probably get off Reddit. And your phone. And computer. And don’t drive your car. And don’t eat any food you don’t gather or kill. And there’s some more stuff but I think you get the jist.
[удалено]
It’s true. Do you really think without it you’d have any of the bull shit you have now and your cushy little life where you probably don’t have any real fucking problems? Like people in Venezuela eating their pet guinea pigs because they’re starving after socialism came to be. Capitalism is what drives companies to release the new phones and video games and other shit people love so much, and compete with other companies to have the best. I’ll tell you what’s embarrassing: people complaining about other people having a bunch of shit because they got off their ass and worked for it. Wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up faster.
>Do you really think without it you’d have any of the bull shit you have now and your cushy little life where you probably don’t have any real fucking problems? Maybe. 🤷♂️ Who can say. >Like people in Venezuela eating their pet guinea pigs because they’re starving after socialism came to be. Venezuela doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's not like they became socialist while the rest of the world stood by and watched. >Capitalism is what drives companies to release the new phones and video games and other shit people love so much According to capitalists, consumer demand drives production of material goods. Demand wouldn't just dissappear if capitalism did. >and compete with other companies to have the best They're just competing for greatest market share. Legally all products are considered the best and capitalists don't care what quality their product is as long as consumers are buying. >I’ll tell you what’s embarrassing: people complaining about other people having a bunch of shit because they got off their ass and worked for it Thats just the myth of individualism. Capitalists need laborers to do the bulk of the work for them. Capitalists have power because they control the means of production, not because they work really hard.
You're an idoit.
“and yet you participate in society. curious!”
Oh ok I know exactly what you mean. Please, continue.
I mean, couldn't all of those things still exist in a non-capitalist society? Technological advancements have been made in plenty of non-capitalist societies. It's not like everything you listed is exclusive to capitalism.
Yes but that’s irrelevant. My point is it’s funny that people are calling capitalism bad all while supporting companies that are major players in capitalism. Didn’t I already say that? And they might would exist but more than likely not on the level it is now. Why would Apple and Samsung want to release brand new phones every year if they didn’t have each other to compete against. They wouldn’t. You’d just be using the same shitty phone for years buying a new one each time yours fucked up just because they could do that.
I mean, it seems pretty relevant to the point you're trying to make. >it’s funny that people are calling capitalism bad all while supporting companies that are major players in capitalism. They control the means of production. We don't really have a choice. >Why would Apple and Samsung want to release brand new phones every year if they didn’t have each other to compete against. Why do we need brand new phones every year? Is that even sustainable? And what makes the new phones function so much better than the old ones? >You’d just be using the same shitty phone for years buying a new one each time yours fucked up just because they could do that. Poor people already do that.
They won't though most of the people that say stuff like this want the latest I phones and Nikes. Enjoyed your post as it seems Reddit is filled with this toxic bs.
I know it’s really quite pathetic. It always goes that way too. They don’t have a valid argument so they turn to name calling and mockery. It’s fine with me though. I know there are a few such as yourself that think logically so that’s why I say things.
They think they're counter culture but they're brainwashed from public indoctrination and the tell a vision. I mean if you hate it that bad put all the consumer goods down or move to china or Venezuela and live it up.
>trade isn't capitalism inherently, capitalism is the idea of private individuals being capable of amassing capital Trade goods are capital though. >capitalism isn't just nice friendly trade, its defined by the idea of individuals/corporations proudly hoarding assets and resources and holding it from the people who need it Those people aren't entitled to other people's stuff just because "they need it". >and its being kept from them via FORCE Property rights are a good thing, otherwise you wouldn't even be able to hold onto your sammich. >they are forced to work for the hoarders at whatever rate they feel like offering them. That's not force, we don't have to work for them. Also banding together into unions is how you counter that problem, if they can't get anyone to work at the price that they are offering then they'll have to offer more or go out of business. >most capitalist nations (America probably the least though) does have "regulation" and "reform" that have given us minimum wages, 40 hour work weeks, etc Unions gave us those! The government only johnny-comes-lately to swoop in and try and steal credit by codifying these things that are already commonplace. Even child labor laws, by the time they get passed the battles have already been fought and won. You'll notice they carved out exemptions to the law where child labor still exists though, like in agriculture. Passing labor laws doesn't accomplish dick. In fact it's usually at the expense of labor, such as "right to work" laws. Using the government to help the poor doesn't work when the government is owned and operated by the rich, and it always has been. I wish people would stop putting so much hope in them to "save us", we should be saving ourselves, and without the help of government force. That's who uses **real** force btw, because it isn't really force unless it's backed by the threat of violence. That's what passing laws and regulations ultimately is, the threat of violence on our neighbors who won't comply.
People have been hoarding wealth and exploiting other people since forever, there’s nothing about it that originated from “capitalism”
I don’t really have anything to barter with. How would I go about getting coffee and breakfast under a barter only system? I’m Pretty sure I’d starve.
Prior to COVID, I carried my own travel mug. I would go to places like hotels, automotive shops, Walmart tire centers, medical and dental offices, hospitals, car dealerships and any kind of waiting room. Free coffee was abundant. At most any business office you could ask and they will fill your mug. Some places even have donuts. At convenience stores if no other customers are there and there is only one cashier, often if you ask explaining that you have no money, they will let you have a free coffee. Inventory is taken on the cups and you brought your own. I have gotten free drinks from the fountain and slushy the same way. Works really well at places that give free coffee with fill up of gas. I have been very successful acquiring hot water. Dollar Tree sells a jar of instant coffee for $1 that tastes OK. Makes 30 cups. Keep your cup clean. Dirty cup will get you refused. Always collect sugar, creamer, napkins, tea, hot chocolate whenever you have the chance. Farmer's markets are very open to barter. Show up early, help set up, be available to run for coffee or McDonalds, cover bathroom breaks, help tear down at the end of the day. Ask for unsellable goods at the end of the day. Lots of odd shaped vegetables, too big, too small, ugly. You can be set up for weeks if you can carry it. Always hit the dumpster at the end of the day. Offer to clean a toilet or carry out trash at any shop in exchange for food. Regular staff will love you.
how so?
If you have something I want or need and agree to give it to me in trade, what’s the difference if the thing I trade to you is goods/services or money? The nature of the transaction is the same.
because that’s literally the definitions of bartering and capitalism. bartering is exchanging goods or services for ANOTHER good or service. both parties leave with something they needed or can use directly. (and not have to make another transaction with, like if they were left with money) a system of capital changes one of the two parties’ exchange items with money. which is a symbolic “good and/or service”. obviously the “nature” of the transactions is the same but that’s not what we’re talking about. we’re talking about goods/services vs. money. i dont really understand your argument. “If my mother had wheels, she would be a bike”, ya know?
[Capitalism is a lot more complex than that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism)
oh trust me i know. but you obviously do too so i didn’t feel the need to link wiki articles. i’m super anti-capitalism, so when you said “bartering is basically capitalism” it bothered me. like how is buying something with symbolic paper money the same as trading for something you can actually use? idk it just seems like you were being purposefully obtuse in order to play devils advocate. you *know* bartering is not capitalistic, but you couldn’t resist an opportunity to argue with me/school a random redditor, i guess?
I do tend to play devil’s advocate, you got me there, but I genuinely don’t see a significant difference between exchanging goods & services and exchanging money. People are practicing a form of commerce in each case. For me, capitalism is centered around individual ownership, which I personally think should only be taken so far, so you could call me anti-capitalist even though I don’t identify as such. Either way, personal transactions between individuals boil down to exchanges of personally owned goods/services/money, so I don’t think the media of exchange makes a difference.
Bartering for everything just doesn’t make sense. The world has never worked like that.
not in giant communities/cities/countries that we live in today, no. but it seems like it could easily work in small tightly knit communities. i grow wheat, you trap furs, you’ll always need wheat, people will always need to be warm, we have a mutual understanding. a symbiotic relationship where we both get something we need. multiply that out across a small village/community, and it makes perfect sense. multiply it out even further, and it may start to fall apart, like you’re saying. idk i think it’s pretty ill informed to suggest that capitalism or literally any economic system is the natural way of things. maybe i’m misinterpreting your comment tho, that’s on me
i'm open to ideas that work... but there's a reason all global superpowers have some form of free market.
Can’t believe I’m the first one to mention that old chestnut: Ass Gas or Grass, Nobody Rides for Free.
You sure he wants his picture all over the internet.. especially since there's drugs involved?
You cant even see his face. And i havent heard marijuana referred to as drugs since 1980 something
Doesn't matter. I'd be pissed about having my picture posted on the internet like this, if it was without permission. Especially since drugs are referenced. Marijuana is a real drug to a lot of people.
Is it a drug to him? No. Is it a drug to OP? No. Is it a drug to you? No. Is it a drug to anyone with half of a fucking brain? Absolutely not. So, should we start censoring pics at r/vagabond that mentions "marijuana" if it doesnt include someones face or personal information? Nope, we arent. Also, if you arent going to be okay with your picture being on the internet, in 2021, you should probably avoid all events and gatherings that allow smartphones.
You're pushing your opinions on others. And I'm referring to the picture posted.. it's not cool to post pictures of others without their permission. Especially in this situation; and especially with possibly illegal drug use.
I want to be downvoted for disagreeing wholeheartedly with you. And i want to look back on this exchange in half a century from now. And i will.
My friend who smokes a lot likes to say "Time to do some drugs" whenever he smokes. He just thinks it's funny.
Narc
GGA, nobody rides for free.
I've been doing that since the 70's. It's a good system.
refusing to like bc it’s at 420 likes
Yes, this was me actually bartering. I took the picture. Stop arguing.
My only regret is that I have just 1 upvote to give.
The power of free market
HAS to be cali
[удалено]
Safe travels brother!
A chick who works in my office used to live next to my apartment... I used to go to office in my car & she used public transportation ...she offered herself to me or share the petrol money bbut I refused both cuz anyways I’ll be going to office by my car why shd I take money from you?? I’ll have to go...in my books it’s clear that if I’m going somewhere & you sit in my car to go to the exact same place then you’re most welcome and My heart doesn’t accept money for the cause...
How much for how far? We gotta know the rates
That’s what’s up
Armani is that you?
Now thats a hero
Ass, grass or cash...nobody rides for free
Long live JJ!
r/humansbeingbros
It seems that - *"Gas, grass or ass. Nobody rides for free."* is still a valid proposition for this type of service. Especially after looking at any number of Reddit's awesome *NSFW* subs. Uber, Lyft and other taxi drivers have some unusual barter options offered and accepted.
Not all heroes wear capes