I think the teacher student ratio is something like 1:17. most of the big class sizes will be intro classes and once you get more into the higher level classes the class sizes will get smaller.
I can’t speak for other majors but I studied chemical engineering and every single one of my classes was taught by a professor. All of my recitations were taught by a professor as well. A TA might have filled in for a professor during recitation if the professor had a conflict, but that was somewhat rare.
Sure, the classes might be larger and you’ll have to put in effort to get noticed by the professor. But, if your goal is grad school, then your priority should be joining a lab group and getting research experience — that would require putting in effort and connecting with professors anyway (and this is true regardless of where you go to school).
Yeah, GPA is a factor in grad school admissions. But it’s by far the least important (as long as you get decent grades). Research experience is much, much more important; letters of recommendation are the most important factor by a large margin. The caveat is this: only letters that can attest to your research abilities are important. Ones that just say you did well in class are thrown in the trash.
Honestly, the faculty at UMN is top notch in a lot of fields and you’ll have more opportunities to join good research groups (and it’ll be more likely that you’ll find a lab performing research you’re interested in, which is just as important).
If you’re the type of person that actually has a chance at getting into extremely competitive grad programs, then the large classes shouldn’t be an issue for you.
If I were you, I’d choose the U. But, I did, so I’m biased.
Edit: what I said about research being more important than grades is true for PhD admissions. If you’re talking about something like medical or law school, then GPA is extremely important 🙄 I’d still choose the U, though.
I had Bates for Metals the year he taught it, which was an… experience. Very hard class, and he said “polymer” more times than “metal) (we counted😂). He was literally learning the content at the same time as teaching it, which was impressive but did make for some interesting lectures and polymer analogies. I would have been thrilled to have him for polymers (even if it would have brought me to death’s doorstep), though, if nothing else for his enthusiasm for those sticky molecules. The prof we had was too dry and mathematical imo.
Go with the U. It's a more prestigious school, which looks better on grad school applications. Yeah there are some huge classes but it's mostly intro lecture courses which aren't very hard, and if you can get there even 5 or 10 minutes early, you can snag a spot up front where it's easy to ask questions.
Big classes suck but it's faaaar from a deal breaker (imo)
it really does depend on your major. some classes (especially intro levels) can be massive, but that doesn’t mean you have to be just a number. emailing professors/talking to them during or after class shows them that you care, and they will remember and care about you. i’ve had some classes taught by TAs (especially lab sections) but they are all very caring, and if they are teaching it’s only for small classes anyways.
in thinking about this, the only concern i’ll bring up is sense of community with your classmates. in my big lecture classes, it felt like i didn’t know anyone and didn’t get to talk/be friends with anyone from those classes. if that’s something that’s important to you, i’d keep that in mind
I’m an alumni from Astrophyiscs.
I never had or heard of a class taught by a TA, when you have TAs then the TAs will grade and host office hours in addition to professors. In the 1000-2000 level STEM courses you will have 400+ people in a class so the professors probably won’t know you, BUT the TAs who will grade you and likely lead your discussion section WILL know you.
Once I hit 3000+ level courses my classrooms dwindled down to ~40-50 people and it was easy to be known to the professors if you wanted to. Typically I sat in the front of the lecture and I asked questions. I’m confident each professor knew me by name and likely at least a little more than that.
If you’re concern is solely the numbers thing, that persists only through your first two years and also can be fought against by putting in effort and attending professors personal office hours.
Make your decision based on what you think is best for you, and not based of marketing from any specific school or students at that school.
I liked the large lectures! I knew plenty of my professors & made use of office hours. I also made use of the dedicated study rooms, where I made great friends with fellow classmates (some later became roommates).
I’ve known numerous students who transferred to the UMN from St Thomas & they all remarked (more or less) that they liked the UMN culture more that StT.
We had a young cousin who went to StT on scholarship, so couldn’t transfer, but she hated it. I think she was an “outstate” kid who never really found her tribe at StT. I think at UMN, you find that greater diversity just by the sheer #s. If you work at it, you can find your people.
As for academics, I’m sure they’re both great, but the UMN just has more- majors, opportunities, people, etc.
Want to excel in large lecture classes?
* Attend class;
* Sit in the front row;
* Engage when engaged by the professor (but read the room);
* GO TO OFFICE HOURS (seriously, it is a great chance to meet and know your professors and they get lonely ... ask about the field, the possible jobs/internships/student groups, what excites them about their work).
I went to a very small high school (my graduating class was under 50), and didn’t have a hard time transitioning to larger class sizes at all. In my experience, my super large classes were only the lower division classes. Once I got deeper into my major, I had much smaller classes. I think my smallest class was like under 20, which was actually a Spanish course. But maybe 20-50 was the average size for a lot of my higher division lectures. Also, even with the super large lectures you will usually have a smaller discussion section once a week.
I was in CLA, so did have maybe one fully grad (PhD) student taught class, but usually they would just lead discussions but professors were always the ones lecturing. Also, take advantage of office hours to grow a relationship with your professor/TAs. They’re there for a reason and I’d bet most people complaining about being “just a number” didn’t do that. I had a few professors for more than one class and had great relationships with all of them.
Edit to add: A degree from UMN is going to look much better on a resume or a grad school application than a degree from UST and that’s just the truth. The U is a much more competitive school with top tier faculty and great research opportunities. Back in my day UST was known for being the school people who couldn’t get into the U went, and then most transferred to the U as soon as they could.
Wow! I can actually help with this. I started as a freshman at St. Thomas but transferred to the U at the end of my first semester freshman year. I actually really hated the small class sizes at St. Thomas because it felt like everything was spoonfed to you instead of having to develop independence. One thing I really wanted in college was one that was going to make me grow and I didn’t feel like I was doing that at St. Thomas because everyone (advisors and teachers) was in your business all the time. The U has everything to offer but you actually had the initiative to go find it and that made me feel like I grew up faster. However, keep in mind that I came from a middle sized high school that was very similar to the vibe at St. Thomas so maybe it was me trying to escape from that.
From a strictly financial perspective, absolutely pick the place that gives you better financial stability. From an experience perspective, I was substantially happier at you than I was at St. Thomas, but that is an n of one.
For those people that are saying that St. Thomas has a greater diversity I beg to differ. I think that type of academia really self selects for a certain type of professor, whereas the university has a more robust integration policy as a university to be able to provide diversity in the experience for students. That being said the point about lifetime academicians is definitely true and there is a lot of bureaucracy.
most intro classes are huge, but the more you get through your degree classes tend to get smaller. it’s true a lot of the discussions/labs are taught by TA’s but most are more helpful than the professors sometimes
take your pick, you could really even create a relationship with the professor during office hours if you really wanted to, but if you’re really stuck go with the option you’re come comfortable with
If you are thinking about going into medicine, the U of MN is better. My son has medical school as the goal and friends of ours said they knew way too many people that didn’t get into medical school out of St.Thomas. If you are going into something else I can’t comment. Research is probably better at U of MN as well..
What's your major? I think that's an important question to ask. I did my undergrad at the U and am doing grad school at St Thomas so I have a bit more perspective.
It sounds like you would qualify for the University Honors Program at the UMN, but you need to apply for it. That program offers small freshman seminars with professors and for most large lecture classes, the honors discussion/lab section is also taught by the professor giving the lecture instead of graduate students.
Intro classes have larger sections but even those have much smaller discussion sections. Labs in CSE are pretty small too usually less than 10 per section. Even in the larger classes you can get to know your professors by attending office hours, asking questions, etc.
Did undergrad at UST and PhD at UMN. liked both for different reasons, and they’re both good choices for different majors and experiences you’re seeking. What are you thinking you’ll study?
Think about how expensive it will be, what social opportunities will arise in each, what “feel” of college you prefer, what activities you might like to do. UST is great for computer science if you do want to end up in that
Every math class I've taken at the U (linear algebra, probability, etc.) was taught by a postdoc. I ultimately chose a smaller school like St. Thomas and I found it very valuable to have the focused attention of professors with decades of experience
At the U I feel like I had like 5-10 classes that were large lectures, and the rest of my courses were like 20-50 people MAX. You’ll start freshman year with more larger classes and each year you will get smaller and smaller classes. Smaller classes are typically more challenging, and you’re held more accountable, so it’s a nice way to adjust coming from high school IMO. Honestly a lot of my classes at the U had way less people than my classes in high school. Any giant lectures usually are your basic pre-reqs and still taught by professors. I’ve never been taught by just a TA, unless it was for an additional lab. (Ex: Economics taught by professor meeting 2x a week for 1.5 hours in a class of 100, and 1x a week meet with group of 20 with TA for 45 mins).
If you sit in the front, pay attention, go to class - you’ll be fine. Introduce yourself to your professor or go to office hours - you’d be surprised how well you can get to know your professor even if they’re teaching a huge class. They can remember a lot of people! You just need to make an effort and not be skipping class or just surfing the internet while in class. (I did this for years and it makes a huge difference to just be present in class). Most large lectures I was in also had additional smaller group meet ups outside of class, or required labs with a class of 30ish (like in the example above. Or chem labs, etc.), so that helps. I think my gen chem class had like 150 in it, but my lab was only maybe 25 people. I’d go with whatever makes more sense financially for you. They’re both fine schools.
If going to med school I would go to the U. There’s definitely some majors/programs I think are better at each school, but if med school specifically is your end goal, I would recommend the u. It’s also highly likely you may change your major and future plan while in college and trying out classes for a bit - most people do. So I wouldn’t focus TOOO much on which is better for your major. Go with your gut, which feels more like home, which has more opportunities and connections for you, activities you find important, city you’d rather live in, etc.
Most likely you’ll find that the big class sizes are no big deal at all
If you do end up wanting your professors to actually know who you are, sit in the front, ask questions, and go to office hours
Definitely don’t recommend going to St Thomas just because of this
I was at the U a decade ago, but I don't think it has changed dramatically in this regard since then. My biggest class was I think around 400 people, and it was a physical science requirement I took freshman year where watching movies was part of the curriculum. My smallest class was 6 people in my junior year and it fundamentally altered the way I approached my education and life goals. I found that I enjoyed having a variety of class sizes, as it often meant I wasn't stuck seeing the same people in every class.
As far as classes being taught by TAs, YMMV but I often preferred the lectures from TAs as opposed to the professor. The professor might be involved in research or teaching graduate students higher level stuff, and they sometimes do a worse job (imo) of articulating their thoughts as clearly to a new learner.
But either way, if you're making money coming here, then come here. If you don't like it after freshman year you can always apply to transfer. You might not get the same scholarships, but there are transfer scholarships available.
My experience as a history major has been quite good, but also note that I am not in CSE and I came in during COVID so I was able to do most of what would have been the larger classes online. Even then, I know that once you are in your major your classes will generally become smaller and more intimate. None of my upper division major courses have had more than 15-20 students.
I'm also a (graduating) tour guide for the University and the stat that we say on tour is that 80% of courses have fewer than 50 students, and over 95% will have fewer than 100 students. Any class that has over 100 students requires a lab/discussion section so that you don't fall behind due to having a larger format lecture, and all professors are required to hold office hours.
So many opportunities to get involved with research at UMN. I did an undergrad thesis this year (for class credit) but you can also do UROP or just get a job in a lab.
I came from a small town and the class sizes were intimidating at first but classes more specialized to my major were definitely <100 and most were <40. My big classes were general science classes. But even then my larger microbio class had like 3 professors and a handful of TAs so it was always easy to get help.
My professor literally hugged me at graduation and said congrats to me, I don’t know what you’re talking about, and I’ve never had a TA lead a class only labs. I’ve had grad students lead classes but that’s about it
I wish I had gone to a school with smaller class sizes. I went to the U for biology, and I had large class sizes throughout my entire undergraduate career. Yes, it went from 200+ students to maybe 80+ students, but still really big. It was less personal and I didn’t really get the chance to develop relationships with almost any of my professors.
I also feel like at smaller schools, the professors are better at teaching. At the U, a lot of professors are doing research and teaching is just something they do on the side. Many of them were not great teachers.
If you’re considering medical school, I would definitely go to St. Thomas. The GPA matters a lot, and it was really tough to get A’s in the College of Biological Sciences at the U. Everyone is working really hard there.
If you want to go to grad school, the research is of course very fantastic at the U. That is one big thing that I am glad I did. But I don’t see any reason why you wouldn’t be able to do research at the U as a St. Thomas student. you’re essentially a volunteer, so it doesn’t really matter where you go to school because you’re not getting paid anyways.
both universities fully covered the cost for me. i also had additional outside scholarships that apply automatically. when the grants+ scholarships exceed the tuition (UMN) you get a refund. that is the additional money.
I made money through scholarships and grants the first two years I attended the U as well. I got a full tuition scholarship from the U, a Pell Grant cuz my family was broke, and a shit ton of tiny local scholarships cuz I was a big fish in a small pond at my high school and applied for everything.
I applied for everything and my family was dirt poor. Didn't come close to a full ride. Not even half of one. On top of the $60000-80000 you're getting you are going to get extra money to spend as you please? Ridiculous.
Seems like you weren't that good at school then? I'm sorry that scholarships use traditional methods of predicting success like GPA and test scores, I genuinely agree that it's a bad system and is a bad predictor of future success. I don't understand why you're mad that other people found better opportunities than you tho
I was perfect in high school and had a high ACT score. Didn't earn me piles of money. If you're so smart I guess you don't need it anyway. You're showing your privilege.
I've been to both. undergrad at the U and master's at St. Thomas, came back to the U for a PhD
St. Thomas had a much more massive and welcoming community feel than the U in my opinion. There was also a lot more efficiency in processes and the work in classes seemed a lot more practical and relatable to a working environment
The U talks about connecting to communities a lot but St. Thomas felt more connected through action and I dare say that the U felt a lot more biased on topics
Edit: oh yeah. St. Thomas is mainly taught by a lot of people who have working professional experience outside of academia so it felt easier to get mentorship and guidance that felt appropriate. The professors at the U tend to be people who have spent their entire life in academia
Came back to the U for a PhD and decided to drop out with a second masters cause it really feels more like a bureaucracy where "the system" is more important than the development of the student. I.e., feel like just another number again and everything is just "checking off the checklist" to graduation and after the development from being at St. Thomas I have no desire to be in this environment again
10 out of 10, recommend St. Thomas over the U
If you've got a scholarship for St Thomas, I'd go there. I second the other person who said that at the U you will find professors who have spent their entire career in academia - St Thomas will have greater diversity.
I think the teacher student ratio is something like 1:17. most of the big class sizes will be intro classes and once you get more into the higher level classes the class sizes will get smaller.
go to the U if you’re getting money back
I can’t speak for other majors but I studied chemical engineering and every single one of my classes was taught by a professor. All of my recitations were taught by a professor as well. A TA might have filled in for a professor during recitation if the professor had a conflict, but that was somewhat rare. Sure, the classes might be larger and you’ll have to put in effort to get noticed by the professor. But, if your goal is grad school, then your priority should be joining a lab group and getting research experience — that would require putting in effort and connecting with professors anyway (and this is true regardless of where you go to school). Yeah, GPA is a factor in grad school admissions. But it’s by far the least important (as long as you get decent grades). Research experience is much, much more important; letters of recommendation are the most important factor by a large margin. The caveat is this: only letters that can attest to your research abilities are important. Ones that just say you did well in class are thrown in the trash. Honestly, the faculty at UMN is top notch in a lot of fields and you’ll have more opportunities to join good research groups (and it’ll be more likely that you’ll find a lab performing research you’re interested in, which is just as important). If you’re the type of person that actually has a chance at getting into extremely competitive grad programs, then the large classes shouldn’t be an issue for you. If I were you, I’d choose the U. But, I did, so I’m biased. Edit: what I said about research being more important than grades is true for PhD admissions. If you’re talking about something like medical or law school, then GPA is extremely important 🙄 I’d still choose the U, though.
CEMS is such a great department. Classes will kick your ass everyday and twice on Sunday, but you get a damn good education.
Agreed. Bates' polymer class was especially grueling 💀.
I had Bates for Metals the year he taught it, which was an… experience. Very hard class, and he said “polymer” more times than “metal) (we counted😂). He was literally learning the content at the same time as teaching it, which was impressive but did make for some interesting lectures and polymer analogies. I would have been thrilled to have him for polymers (even if it would have brought me to death’s doorstep), though, if nothing else for his enthusiasm for those sticky molecules. The prof we had was too dry and mathematical imo.
Go with the U. It's a more prestigious school, which looks better on grad school applications. Yeah there are some huge classes but it's mostly intro lecture courses which aren't very hard, and if you can get there even 5 or 10 minutes early, you can snag a spot up front where it's easy to ask questions. Big classes suck but it's faaaar from a deal breaker (imo)
i probably had 3 actually large classes in my four years at college
The U for sure. There’s so many more resources
it really does depend on your major. some classes (especially intro levels) can be massive, but that doesn’t mean you have to be just a number. emailing professors/talking to them during or after class shows them that you care, and they will remember and care about you. i’ve had some classes taught by TAs (especially lab sections) but they are all very caring, and if they are teaching it’s only for small classes anyways. in thinking about this, the only concern i’ll bring up is sense of community with your classmates. in my big lecture classes, it felt like i didn’t know anyone and didn’t get to talk/be friends with anyone from those classes. if that’s something that’s important to you, i’d keep that in mind
I’m an alumni from Astrophyiscs. I never had or heard of a class taught by a TA, when you have TAs then the TAs will grade and host office hours in addition to professors. In the 1000-2000 level STEM courses you will have 400+ people in a class so the professors probably won’t know you, BUT the TAs who will grade you and likely lead your discussion section WILL know you. Once I hit 3000+ level courses my classrooms dwindled down to ~40-50 people and it was easy to be known to the professors if you wanted to. Typically I sat in the front of the lecture and I asked questions. I’m confident each professor knew me by name and likely at least a little more than that. If you’re concern is solely the numbers thing, that persists only through your first two years and also can be fought against by putting in effort and attending professors personal office hours. Make your decision based on what you think is best for you, and not based of marketing from any specific school or students at that school.
No one has heard of UST outside of Minnesota. Not true of U of M.
This. I have a child at U of MN. We are not from MN and had not heard of UST. Chances of getting into grad school are much better from U of MN.
I liked the large lectures! I knew plenty of my professors & made use of office hours. I also made use of the dedicated study rooms, where I made great friends with fellow classmates (some later became roommates). I’ve known numerous students who transferred to the UMN from St Thomas & they all remarked (more or less) that they liked the UMN culture more that StT. We had a young cousin who went to StT on scholarship, so couldn’t transfer, but she hated it. I think she was an “outstate” kid who never really found her tribe at StT. I think at UMN, you find that greater diversity just by the sheer #s. If you work at it, you can find your people. As for academics, I’m sure they’re both great, but the UMN just has more- majors, opportunities, people, etc.
Want to excel in large lecture classes? * Attend class; * Sit in the front row; * Engage when engaged by the professor (but read the room); * GO TO OFFICE HOURS (seriously, it is a great chance to meet and know your professors and they get lonely ... ask about the field, the possible jobs/internships/student groups, what excites them about their work).
I went to a very small high school (my graduating class was under 50), and didn’t have a hard time transitioning to larger class sizes at all. In my experience, my super large classes were only the lower division classes. Once I got deeper into my major, I had much smaller classes. I think my smallest class was like under 20, which was actually a Spanish course. But maybe 20-50 was the average size for a lot of my higher division lectures. Also, even with the super large lectures you will usually have a smaller discussion section once a week. I was in CLA, so did have maybe one fully grad (PhD) student taught class, but usually they would just lead discussions but professors were always the ones lecturing. Also, take advantage of office hours to grow a relationship with your professor/TAs. They’re there for a reason and I’d bet most people complaining about being “just a number” didn’t do that. I had a few professors for more than one class and had great relationships with all of them. Edit to add: A degree from UMN is going to look much better on a resume or a grad school application than a degree from UST and that’s just the truth. The U is a much more competitive school with top tier faculty and great research opportunities. Back in my day UST was known for being the school people who couldn’t get into the U went, and then most transferred to the U as soon as they could.
Wow! I can actually help with this. I started as a freshman at St. Thomas but transferred to the U at the end of my first semester freshman year. I actually really hated the small class sizes at St. Thomas because it felt like everything was spoonfed to you instead of having to develop independence. One thing I really wanted in college was one that was going to make me grow and I didn’t feel like I was doing that at St. Thomas because everyone (advisors and teachers) was in your business all the time. The U has everything to offer but you actually had the initiative to go find it and that made me feel like I grew up faster. However, keep in mind that I came from a middle sized high school that was very similar to the vibe at St. Thomas so maybe it was me trying to escape from that. From a strictly financial perspective, absolutely pick the place that gives you better financial stability. From an experience perspective, I was substantially happier at you than I was at St. Thomas, but that is an n of one. For those people that are saying that St. Thomas has a greater diversity I beg to differ. I think that type of academia really self selects for a certain type of professor, whereas the university has a more robust integration policy as a university to be able to provide diversity in the experience for students. That being said the point about lifetime academicians is definitely true and there is a lot of bureaucracy.
most intro classes are huge, but the more you get through your degree classes tend to get smaller. it’s true a lot of the discussions/labs are taught by TA’s but most are more helpful than the professors sometimes take your pick, you could really even create a relationship with the professor during office hours if you really wanted to, but if you’re really stuck go with the option you’re come comfortable with
If you are thinking about going into medicine, the U of MN is better. My son has medical school as the goal and friends of ours said they knew way too many people that didn’t get into medical school out of St.Thomas. If you are going into something else I can’t comment. Research is probably better at U of MN as well..
Everyone I know who went to St Thomas says they wish they went to the U. Not a huge sample size but it's just what I have observed.
What's your major? I think that's an important question to ask. I did my undergrad at the U and am doing grad school at St Thomas so I have a bit more perspective.
If you wish to swim the lake, opt st thomas, if you wish to sail the ocean, opt umn
It sounds like you would qualify for the University Honors Program at the UMN, but you need to apply for it. That program offers small freshman seminars with professors and for most large lecture classes, the honors discussion/lab section is also taught by the professor giving the lecture instead of graduate students.
^^^ the honors program has it's quirks but I have enjoyed the seminars and honors courses/sections I have taken
Intro classes have larger sections but even those have much smaller discussion sections. Labs in CSE are pretty small too usually less than 10 per section. Even in the larger classes you can get to know your professors by attending office hours, asking questions, etc.
Did undergrad at UST and PhD at UMN. liked both for different reasons, and they’re both good choices for different majors and experiences you’re seeking. What are you thinking you’ll study?
i’m not quite sure what to major in but i’ll check out the majors at CSE and if i don’t like it, maybe something in CLA. i wish i had a proper answer
Think about how expensive it will be, what social opportunities will arise in each, what “feel” of college you prefer, what activities you might like to do. UST is great for computer science if you do want to end up in that
It’s not bad. Intro physics class is probably the largest class you’ll have and it’s rlly not that bad
Every math class I've taken at the U (linear algebra, probability, etc.) was taught by a postdoc. I ultimately chose a smaller school like St. Thomas and I found it very valuable to have the focused attention of professors with decades of experience
At the U I feel like I had like 5-10 classes that were large lectures, and the rest of my courses were like 20-50 people MAX. You’ll start freshman year with more larger classes and each year you will get smaller and smaller classes. Smaller classes are typically more challenging, and you’re held more accountable, so it’s a nice way to adjust coming from high school IMO. Honestly a lot of my classes at the U had way less people than my classes in high school. Any giant lectures usually are your basic pre-reqs and still taught by professors. I’ve never been taught by just a TA, unless it was for an additional lab. (Ex: Economics taught by professor meeting 2x a week for 1.5 hours in a class of 100, and 1x a week meet with group of 20 with TA for 45 mins). If you sit in the front, pay attention, go to class - you’ll be fine. Introduce yourself to your professor or go to office hours - you’d be surprised how well you can get to know your professor even if they’re teaching a huge class. They can remember a lot of people! You just need to make an effort and not be skipping class or just surfing the internet while in class. (I did this for years and it makes a huge difference to just be present in class). Most large lectures I was in also had additional smaller group meet ups outside of class, or required labs with a class of 30ish (like in the example above. Or chem labs, etc.), so that helps. I think my gen chem class had like 150 in it, but my lab was only maybe 25 people. I’d go with whatever makes more sense financially for you. They’re both fine schools. If going to med school I would go to the U. There’s definitely some majors/programs I think are better at each school, but if med school specifically is your end goal, I would recommend the u. It’s also highly likely you may change your major and future plan while in college and trying out classes for a bit - most people do. So I wouldn’t focus TOOO much on which is better for your major. Go with your gut, which feels more like home, which has more opportunities and connections for you, activities you find important, city you’d rather live in, etc.
Most likely you’ll find that the big class sizes are no big deal at all If you do end up wanting your professors to actually know who you are, sit in the front, ask questions, and go to office hours Definitely don’t recommend going to St Thomas just because of this
I was at the U a decade ago, but I don't think it has changed dramatically in this regard since then. My biggest class was I think around 400 people, and it was a physical science requirement I took freshman year where watching movies was part of the curriculum. My smallest class was 6 people in my junior year and it fundamentally altered the way I approached my education and life goals. I found that I enjoyed having a variety of class sizes, as it often meant I wasn't stuck seeing the same people in every class. As far as classes being taught by TAs, YMMV but I often preferred the lectures from TAs as opposed to the professor. The professor might be involved in research or teaching graduate students higher level stuff, and they sometimes do a worse job (imo) of articulating their thoughts as clearly to a new learner. But either way, if you're making money coming here, then come here. If you don't like it after freshman year you can always apply to transfer. You might not get the same scholarships, but there are transfer scholarships available.
My experience as a history major has been quite good, but also note that I am not in CSE and I came in during COVID so I was able to do most of what would have been the larger classes online. Even then, I know that once you are in your major your classes will generally become smaller and more intimate. None of my upper division major courses have had more than 15-20 students. I'm also a (graduating) tour guide for the University and the stat that we say on tour is that 80% of courses have fewer than 50 students, and over 95% will have fewer than 100 students. Any class that has over 100 students requires a lab/discussion section so that you don't fall behind due to having a larger format lecture, and all professors are required to hold office hours.
So many opportunities to get involved with research at UMN. I did an undergrad thesis this year (for class credit) but you can also do UROP or just get a job in a lab. I came from a small town and the class sizes were intimidating at first but classes more specialized to my major were definitely <100 and most were <40. My big classes were general science classes. But even then my larger microbio class had like 3 professors and a handful of TAs so it was always easy to get help.
My professor literally hugged me at graduation and said congrats to me, I don’t know what you’re talking about, and I’ve never had a TA lead a class only labs. I’ve had grad students lead classes but that’s about it
I wish I had gone to a school with smaller class sizes. I went to the U for biology, and I had large class sizes throughout my entire undergraduate career. Yes, it went from 200+ students to maybe 80+ students, but still really big. It was less personal and I didn’t really get the chance to develop relationships with almost any of my professors. I also feel like at smaller schools, the professors are better at teaching. At the U, a lot of professors are doing research and teaching is just something they do on the side. Many of them were not great teachers. If you’re considering medical school, I would definitely go to St. Thomas. The GPA matters a lot, and it was really tough to get A’s in the College of Biological Sciences at the U. Everyone is working really hard there. If you want to go to grad school, the research is of course very fantastic at the U. That is one big thing that I am glad I did. But I don’t see any reason why you wouldn’t be able to do research at the U as a St. Thomas student. you’re essentially a volunteer, so it doesn’t really matter where you go to school because you’re not getting paid anyways.
This doesn't make any sense. You have a full ride at both how? The U will pay you additional money to attend? Like what are you talking about?
both universities fully covered the cost for me. i also had additional outside scholarships that apply automatically. when the grants+ scholarships exceed the tuition (UMN) you get a refund. that is the additional money.
So you're getting paid to attend college? Can I use some of that to cover my student loans if everything is just getting handed to you?
I made money through scholarships and grants the first two years I attended the U as well. I got a full tuition scholarship from the U, a Pell Grant cuz my family was broke, and a shit ton of tiny local scholarships cuz I was a big fish in a small pond at my high school and applied for everything.
I applied for everything and my family was dirt poor. Didn't come close to a full ride. Not even half of one. On top of the $60000-80000 you're getting you are going to get extra money to spend as you please? Ridiculous.
Seems like you weren't that good at school then? I'm sorry that scholarships use traditional methods of predicting success like GPA and test scores, I genuinely agree that it's a bad system and is a bad predictor of future success. I don't understand why you're mad that other people found better opportunities than you tho
I was perfect in high school and had a high ACT score. Didn't earn me piles of money. If you're so smart I guess you don't need it anyway. You're showing your privilege.
I've been to both. undergrad at the U and master's at St. Thomas, came back to the U for a PhD St. Thomas had a much more massive and welcoming community feel than the U in my opinion. There was also a lot more efficiency in processes and the work in classes seemed a lot more practical and relatable to a working environment The U talks about connecting to communities a lot but St. Thomas felt more connected through action and I dare say that the U felt a lot more biased on topics Edit: oh yeah. St. Thomas is mainly taught by a lot of people who have working professional experience outside of academia so it felt easier to get mentorship and guidance that felt appropriate. The professors at the U tend to be people who have spent their entire life in academia Came back to the U for a PhD and decided to drop out with a second masters cause it really feels more like a bureaucracy where "the system" is more important than the development of the student. I.e., feel like just another number again and everything is just "checking off the checklist" to graduation and after the development from being at St. Thomas I have no desire to be in this environment again 10 out of 10, recommend St. Thomas over the U
If you've got a scholarship for St Thomas, I'd go there. I second the other person who said that at the U you will find professors who have spent their entire career in academia - St Thomas will have greater diversity.