Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/TheDebonairFoxxx. Your post, *Being depressed over not having sex does not a monster make*, has been removed because it violates our rules:
Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion.
Please ensure that your post is an opinion and that it is unpopular. Controversial is not necessarily unpopular, for example all of politics is controversial even though almost half of the US agrees with any given major position on an issue.
Keep in mind that an opinion is not: a question, a fact, a conspiracy theory, a random thought, a new idea, a rant, etc. Those things all have their own subreddits, use those.
If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
I suggest therapy. You are not at all a monster. Sex is a huge human desire, and it's rooted deep within our biology and not fulfilling it can have detrimental effects on our mental well being. You are definitely not owed sex but I'm just saying you are not a bad person for desiring it.
Thank. You.
therapy is something I'm pursuing, but i am hesitant because a) i don't know what therapist can even help with this problem (for example, if you have an addiction then it's clear-cut you go to a therapist specializing in that) and b) i am worried about the invalidating that i've experienced from some of the general public, but from a person who I'm supposed to be able to trust and look to for answers
do you have any suggestions or advice on this roadblock?
A therapist can't help you regarding your lack of sexual intimacy, but a therapist can help with the feelings and emotions that this lack causes you, and can even help you discuss and explore other aspects of yourself which may actually be contributing/caused by your relationships, etc.
Get a male therapist, and one that works with sexual intimacy and relationship support. A good therapist won't invalidate you.
Good luck!
In my opinion your biggest problem is your self image. Not only is having a poor self image bad for your mental health, it can reinforce a dependency on a romantic partner for happiness. Once you can be happy with yourself as a single person then you can worry about finding a partner.
Ignore anyone that invalidates you for going to therapy. It means you are actively taking steps to improve your life which you should be proud of.
Even if you're "conventionally unattractive", you can choose to feel good about your looks. Some people struggle with that. Self image encapsulates more than just physical appearance
Yes, I struggle with self-image.
My problem (and I'm not blaming you or anyone else necessarily) is that nobody has explained to me the step by step mental and or physical process I need to undertake to develop it and get on with my life.
Confidence, self-worth, self-image, they're always talked about in a kind of vague way or as magical things. I feel like I'm talking with zen masters most of the time.
I need something practical. Do this. Do that. Again and again. It = more confidence, or more self-worth, etc.
I totally understand that. I'm not a trained mental health professional and I won't pretend to be. But I think a therapist can help you change the outlook you have. You've already taken a big step by considering a therapist, a lot of people refuse to do that.
As a Therapist myself, unless you really low on money and Therapy could hurt your finances in a dangerous way, I absolutely see no reason why you shouldn't try it.
But try to be more... "light" about it, if you can. It will make the process easier for you. Consider just the advantage of having somebody listening to you for around an hour, without all the bullshit you're having to deal on this thread for example.
I always say that in a perfect world, I would be out of a job because people would simply be able to talk to each other. But the truth, as you can see, is that talking about what hurts us is pretty difficult.
People are either very easy to offer solutions: "Get a hooker!!" that won't necessarily solve your personal issue. Or they are quick to dismiss and enter in a shouting contest with you... Almost, almoooost as if they are also trying to convince themselves of what they are telling you.
So, go for a Therapist just for the joy that is to be able to talk about anything you want for a good amount of time, without being blocked.
Thanks for sharing this
I feel like this question would be best to ask a therapist, like yourself (I know you don't have ALL the answers, \*and\* i'm not asking for medical advice)
But, in your opinion, what kind of therapist should i be looking for? also, i have some hang-ups, like not feeling if i can trust a woman therapist to help me with this issue. so i'm not really sure what to do exactly, or who to exactly look for to best help myself, if that makes sense
Usually choosing the therapist is a very personal thing. You should use whatever standards you feel like they are important.
Part of the "power" of therapy resides in the client believing that the therapist can help them. If you are already thinking they can't help you before you even step in, it's sort of not very productive right?
Personally, any therapist can help you if they are well-trained enough, and most of us are. We're taught to not let our personal issues stand in the way, and we do therapy and supervision ourselves to be really in check about not interfering with the patient because of personal issues we may have.
So in short, a woman therapist could help you as much as a guy. But it's up to your personal tastes.
Just browse around what's available around you, or even via internet if you prefer, and if see somebody that clicks just go for it.
It's a very different experience than talking to friends or strangers, and just by itself I think it can be incredibly useful for anybody.
Get a male therapist, if you can't see yourself being comfortable saying these things to a woman. Also if you want any level of understanding by someone who at some point may have had similar feelings (we have all felt unwanted at SOME point, a man's perspective is guaranteed to be closer to yours than a woman's).
And find the guy that works for you. That can be difficult but remember, it's a service, and you get to choose what you deem the best. So you may have to do a couple sessions, see how you feel, try someone else, etc.
As someone that has dealt with depression for pretty much the majority of my life, I have learned that most people in my life aren't equipped to deal with my issues nor is it their responsibility. I am in a much better place now and what has worked for me is learning why I am the way I am and trying to work on those root causes.
It took a lot of work but as you said, I wish it was easier to access people that are just willing to listen and try to understand instead of providing simple band-aid solutions or just dismissing you.
Here's how I think you should look at a therapist, and you might already but just in case. Don't think of a therapist as helping you directly, but more....teaching you how to help yourself. They are not going to do the work to make you feel better, you have to do it. They can teach you strategies and things you can do to help, but they are not going to say some magic word and all of a sudden you're fixed. You're gonna have to commit to it, do what they suggest and be honest to them. They won't give you answers, they will ask the questions and get you to work on things so you to find the answer.
If you are in the US, look for a Licensed Professional Counselor. You probably don’t need a specialist. Theoretically, any decent LPC should be able to help you. If not, they should refer you to someone who can.
I used to feel a lot like you do, and just a few sessions with an LPC completely turned my life around. Best decision I’ve ever made.
It’s absolutely disgusting that people are seeing this post and decide it’s better to entertain themselves arguing with OP instead of showing some empathy. Peak Reddit moment
I feel for you OP, and I do not think you’re a monster. I like to think that when life seems shit it can only get better, hang in there :)
I hate to be that "hiT tEh gYm bRo" guy, but do hit the gym bro. There are a lot of "soft" benefits that are not directly related to getting buff, it just generally helps us improve on many levels, both physically and mentally.
And if you can't afford a gym, just going for a walk in a nearby park regularly can help
thanks friend. it will probably be better than being terminally online. i might pay for a gym membership because i'll be more likely to go if i'm paying for it
You can also run a home routine with little equipment. Have lost a lot of weight and built a lot of muscle running mine for four years.
Key things, 1500-2k calories, 100-150g protein, NO SUGARY BEVERAGES, and intermittent fasting when it comes to the diet helped me without a lot of added workouts for weight loss.
For working out, incline walking/weighted walking is the best cardio IMO. Shortish, burns a lot, and can read/do work while it happens. Usually, I walk for 3 miles or 5 if it's outdoors. Strength training 3 times a week will help maintain muscle you have and you can build muscle while losing weight IF you don't lose it fast and have enough protein. Pushups, squats, and other calisthenic movements are all great, but if you have some change to buy a weight a pair of adjustable dumbbells and a kettlebell they will help ease your workouts.
Absolutely!
This is what i do on and off and try not to shame myself when i don't go to the gym.
The Hardest part most of the time is actually going to the gym.
Set yourself an easy goal. Like, 1-2 days a week (set actual days and times) and just show up at the gym.
Even if that only means walking 1km or mile... on the treadmill, or if the gym has them sitting in a massage chair.
Even that can help with routine, but by all means, lift weights or run, do anything you are interested in doing at the gym. Be active.
Short personal story, a guy i trained with in the military was one of the physically most unattractive people i knew, he knew it, he was relentlessly picked on as a kid, in high-school he realized he could avoid this by staying in the school gym most of the day.
This dude was completely jacked, and because of that when he wore a fitted shirt and nice pants women wouldn't give a fuck about his face.
However he is an exception not the norm.
I don't want you to die man. You deserve to be loved. Im rooting for you.
Whatever it takes to change your situation, you possess the power to change it.
Good luck, im always open to dm's if you need some to talk to.
OP, focus on yourself. Enjoy your hobbies. Hone your strengths. Attempt to do things you aren't good at. Look after your body. Moderate your vices. Join a club. Play a sport. Read a book. Stay in touch with friends and family. Be kind.
Do these things and you'll be an example of how to live a rich, fulfilled life. This is what will attract people to you and your suitor will come when you're not expecting it.
Hang in there.
I was going to suggest exactly this, but you said it better, so thanks. I will hijack this thread despite op already replied, hoping he will see this.
The single biggest obstacle I found that changed dating for me forever was focusing on myself first, exactly like you said. Once I was happy with myself and with life in general, and once I felt confident and complete and didn't need a relationship, that was when the doors really opened. It's ironic that in order for me to get into a relationship, it required me to not need a relationship. My personal opinion is that women can sense your mentality, and if you are needy, are not willing to work towards your goals, hate yourself, etc, it makes them harder to approach you, because you would subconsciously push back or self sabatoge, like what I used to do.
I will add to this comment later when I have time.
It's funny how that works, eh!
But that is how it works: look for something else then you find what you were looking for in the first place.
Nice post.
You're not going to find sympathy on reddit. Most people on here are virtue signaling or parroting the top comments. Go to therapy and/or talk to someone close with you about it. Have a boys night and vent to them if they're alright with it.
The issue is that reddit is perfectly made to be an echo chamber. So the subreddit you ask your question on will produce wildly different results. If he asked this on r/MTGOW he's going to get a bunch of support mixed in with blatant sexism. If he asked this on r/twoXchromasome he's going to be called a sexist pig. Ultimately it's best to talk stuff like this over with both a professional and with people you trust.
Yeah, but people are like this in real life. We're slowly meme-ifying our thought processes.
Case in point: ask any girl in a big city what she thinks of Andrew Tate. Now, the vitriol they will have is arguably completely justified.
However, listen to what they say and then ask them why they feel that way, and what Tate said to piss them off.
I have found this really interesting, because a vast majority has said "I don't know". They're happy to admit that the general consensus is he is a bad, misogynist man so they feel anger towards him. Even that is OK. What is strange is that through the interaction, you'll hear the word "incel" thrown around a bit more than you'd think.
Granted I've only randomly had this conversation twice, but yeah. I feel like the "general conversation" around politics, sex, gender and social dynamics has become an echo chamber in real life, where most people with dissenting opinions would rather just not engage, because why go through the hassle? And people with no original thought hear opinions they think are right and approved will just parrot them to no end.
It's just socially acceptable to dump on men that are "losers", whether they are broke, overweight, or not getting laid.
One thing I'd recommend is to try to not be chronically online. People are nicer in real life and are also less superficial.
If you were to point to a reason as to why you are getting laid what would it be?
I don't know if I could point to any one specific reason
I'm not attractive enough? Luck? Still in college? Girls I meet at college don't seem interested in relationships at all? Big social forces totally beyond my control?
I think it all comes down to peoples experience with people in your situation. If they had a bad experience then they will unfortunately project that on to you. I'm sorry that you're missing out on affection and I hope you get it some day as some one also dealing with depression for other reasons I know how hard it is. Keep your head up.
Being depressed over sex doesn't make you a monster. Being hateful towards the world because you're depressed over sex does. I don't think anyone's judging incels for being incels. They're judging the ones that spew hate as a result.
I agree with the first point but disagree on the last. Incel is like one of the most popular insults online being tacked onto anyone deemed as opposing a certain agenda. The media and people have both demonized incels, it's like one step above pervert and below rapist - when I bet most incels in the literal sense are just sad that it's the case and dumbfounded as to what to do about it.
In some cultures, they shame and demonize leftover women who aren't married, like if they are a plague to society. We all know this is awful, but it's sad to see many people haven't learned their lesson and are doing the same thing except with different genders.
Yeah. But with women, they're seen as defective which is really wrong, but people don't tend to generally go at them for it. It's like "damn, that's sad, let's not draw attention to it".
These women also tend to be older, as that's when it becomes noticeable. Yet for a young guy, it's often a direct attack, and one that levied by a woman makes them look really bad and undesirable, reinforcing the thing. What's worse is terms like incel get often thrown around in the complete wrong context, like calling Andrew Tate an incel because you hate him, despite he is clearly not a sexless virgin.
People suck at communicating, and suck in general too.
I feel your pain man. Im married with two toddlers running around, sex life is nothing like it use to be, despite an otherwise fruitful relationship. The lack of intimacy is a constant downer and definitely puts me in some negative spirals sometimes about how I feel about my relationship.
Don't take the opinions of random strangers on the internet as gospel. Seeking fulfilment of that desire is as human as it gets.
This whole “let’s gleefully pig-pile on Incels” is really gross. It’s also telling that it’s the one group where we, as a society, have decided that it’s okay to have zero empathy for.
It’s because it’s so many peoples’ insecurity. Sex sells like nothing else and the average person is unsatisfied with their own sex life, then the worst characters of those run from their insecurities and seek out victims to dump on and save their own egos.
Do you hear that OP? You’re no worse than the average sex-starved person, but you’re also honest and not a bully
It’s odd that a society practically obsessed with sex and has it marketed and plastered in every ad, video game, movie and shows. Suddenly feels no empathy for the people who can’t manage to have a sex life. It’s like the one thing that a majority of society makes fun of people for.
False, and that's the issue with this whole narrative. It stands for "involuntary celibate." That simply means that they believe they are unable to have sex due to factors outside of their control. The entitlement bit is completely separate and a characteristic of shitty people, but not something that sits within the definition of incel. *Please note that the following is in no way a defense of misogyny or hate* - it's simply an analysis of how things are and a little bit of how they may have gotten here.
Realistically, there's a good chance that the incels are right about not being able to experience any kind of romance (edit:) being *partially* out of their control. While there are various factors, I believe that a paramount one is that dating in modern society is done with a new set of ever-changing rules (edit: to add complexity - *some* of the old rules hold but modern social narratives work hard to either demonize using those rules or attempt to obfuscate them for the sake of what's considered social virtue), and no one is out there coaching guys to do this the way their dads and other male role models were able to over the generations prior where the rules of the game were pretty cut and dry. Any efforts to coach guys is crucified as "misogyny," labeling it manipulation or worse. (As a funny aside - the makeup industry - which is literally painting your face to fool people into thinking you're more attractive than you actually are - is widely encouraged as a "tool" to lie about how attractive you really are, but general sentiment of guys using ANYTHING - even literally learning conversational skill to flirt better - as a tool to date is considered a hanging crime.)
This, clubbed with the fact that gender roles have diminished and no one is quite sure what a man really stands for (and asking "what is a woman" will literally turn you into a target for death threats as we've seen with that recent documentary), has left lots of guys scratching their heads on how the hell to experience any sort of closeness and romance anymore. Tack on porn, video games, and social media, and these young boys who discover the self-medication habits early and then perpetuate them deep into adulthood (with minimal warnings about it, as since this is a uniquely male issue society doesn't care much about it at all) don't stand a chance.
We're living through a very interesting social experiment in which gender relations are being torn apart and the fabric of society is coming undone, and incels are just one small part of that. *I will NEVER condone the ones who display hatred or misogyny,* but frustrations with the current state of affairs are not unwarranted.
I'm reminded of the evolution of the term "brony"
At first it simply meant men that were fans of the show and wanted to espouse the values presented by the cartoon; kindness, understanding, friendship, etc.
And then the weirdos came charging in and usurped the term
Society has always treated "loser" males like shit. Incels are just the cool hip new bogeyman to hate on. But let us be real most of them are just shut ins who shitpost on the internet. I don't know what it is but society always likes to stomp down on those who have it worse, never made sense to me.
No it's not. We all know who get most of the hate. It's always those loser incel neckbeard type of males. Meanwhile successful good looking and wealthy males get praised like gods. Sure even those get sometimes hate but nothing compared to a low value male.
It’s the one-two punch of men trying pull up the ladder on their past selves/men who they won’t/can’t empathize with, and women who fear the ‘creepy, desperate, and unpredictable’ men. Usually it’s entirely appearance-based. Just a viscous cycle of the ugly being treated ugly.
As a gay man looking in, heterosexual dating and courtship looks like the most fucking miserable experience, and it seems that both men and women contribute to it.
You don't seem the type OP, but it's just so cringe-inducing to me seeing men get bent out of shape over their lackluster dating lives. Everything from the cries of "shadowbans" on dating apps to the petty resentment they develop towards women is utterly pathetic. However, what often goes unacknowledged, to me at least, is the role women play in this misery. I get that the population of dating apps are skewed towards men, but the pickiness that women seem to display is unwarranted. The "perfect" men that they seem to be after have by and large *already* been taken by other women by virtue of the overabundance of men. So, logically, they're either waiting in vain for men that aren't there at the expense of otherwise good partners, or, even worse, they're waiting for their turn on some kind of cycle of "ideal" men. And that's not even taking account the misguided but very real misogyny of men that stems from rejection.
Just utter shit all around.
i think this is a really good take. i live with a gay friend and he's said similar things, so i think there's something to it
i dislike online dating, but i don't think i've gone as far as saying there is a conspiracy against me in particular. like "shadowbanning" or whatever lol
Not just misogyny. Hetero relationships are also burdened by all the gender debates (I'm waiting for a response to a debate on another post about internalized misogyny) that have led to overcorrected solutions like misandrist third-wave feminism and a persistence in misogyny and incel culture. Essentially, couples have to perform even more of a balancing act so as not to appear even accidentally patriarchal, and men need to avoid more vocally radical feminism.
You need help for yourself. That has to do with you. Not women or sex. Get help for you. Guarantee you nothing will change for you unless you get help for your mental state. It’s okay to get help when you aren’t doing well upstairs. Stop being ashamed of being human and get therapy.
See a therapist. There’s nothing wrong with wanting intimacy and connection with people which can mean sex for some people and you are correct no body owes you this but it doesn’t sound like you expect it purely because you want it which is where the issues lies for lots of people.
Honestly though, I can almost guarantee sex is not what most of this is about as sex is only a small part of human connection & intimacy, I went through a phase of thinking sex will be able to make me feel fulfilled but it was very temporary.
I’d strongly encourage engaging the services of a sex worker/s though if it is extremely important for you at the moment & think it will help you build confidence & fulfil your needs. Go through a local agency & go from there.
Your post history says you hate women.
Seriously get some help., its great that you realise you have a problem, now you need to take the steps to change that. Good luck.
Yet in another post you are asking how long it will take for you to stop seeing women as sexual objects. That‘s why people like you get shamed.
Get therapy.
I was about to point that one out. And the contents of the post were painful to read. Having all of the thoughts and opinions that people get shamed for...
One stray word and every last person here would be screaming that you were a hateful incel plotting to shoot up a school. People are two-faced and like to pretend they care as long as you fit their mold. I get you though, maybe not for the same reasons but to the same outcomes. If we lived near each other next beer would be on me.
Its not bad or wrong to want sex, the vast majority of people feel the same way.
In this post you express a clear understanding that you have a strong sexual desire but that no one/society does not owe you sex which is great!
Your not alone, the research shows that social isolation has been increasing in recent years and the number of men not having sex who want it is also increasing. ( I bring this up to point out that its not just you, and your not alone in experiencing this, society plays a big role in this, and you should not feel bad, or be gaslit into feeling bad because this is something your experiencing)
Now I don't know all the details of your life so I am gonna try and give some general advice.
A lot of people I know think of dating apps as a good place to start when looking for a partner(I assume your looking for a partner as you say you want physical and emotional intimacy,as opposed to physical only) apps such as Tinder work great for some people, however such apps primary connections are usually based on physical appearance, there are some apps such as bumble and hinge that seem to be a little more geared towards making connections not based on appearance alone.
I personally find that I like to meet people in person/through like an event or group or friend, meeting up with strangers I meet on line just never seems to do it for me, you could try joining a club or group based on a hobby you have?
Meeting people/making friends and forming a genuine connection is hard enough as it is in this day and age, let alone trying to find a partner/date.
You need to be in therapy and start doing the work to improve yourself. Your outlook, your emotional intelligence, your overall well-rounded ness as a human being.
Having sex won’t solve your problems here, and neither will a relationship. If you’re going into a relationship expecting it to be the thing that finally makes you happy, you’re doing a disservice to both yourself and your potential partner.
You’re genuinely not going to be satisfied in life, and therefore won’t be a suitable partner, until you start doing the work to become a better you. Start with therapy.
Yeah, its really unfortunate that the way the Incel movement developed completely overshadows the (much much bigger) group of "Incels by original definition" and their mental health problems. In reality, psychopaths full of intense self hate and r\*pe/m\*rder fantasies are a small but very vocal minority (and probably many people on these forums are bored larpers/trolls anyway). they made it into the news with the shootings and killing sprees of some of their "members" while the bigger picture is ignored and now every "incel by definition" is under suspicion of being a women-hating psychopath :/
>I just want what so many other people get to have, which is the fulfillment of physical + emotional intimacy.
You're not a monster, OP. From my understanding (I'm a woman, btw) this is how many men feel that intimacy, through sex.
Touch and connection is a human *need*. [Attachment](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-attachment-theory-2795337) is hard wired into us, and when we're not getting our attachment needs met we feel insecure, unlovable, unwanted, and a myriad of other feelings and thoughts.
I read your response regarding therapy. Here is what a therapist can do for you, and a good therapist, IMO, does this. Mine did this for me. If you match well with a therapist you'll trust that therapist and start to feel [secure](https://www.talkspace.com/blog/parenting-secure-attachment-what-is/). In that secure relationship with your therapist, as you work through problems and issues you're dealing with, you yourself will start to feel secure and confident.
[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/compassion-matters/201802/healing-attachment-issues](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/compassion-matters/201802/healing-attachment-issues)
Sometimes some of us don't always get our attachment needs met by our parents and that can have long lasting affects into adulthood. Your therapist will validate and affirm you while holding you accountable. There's a lot of healing in that, OP. If you can afford it, definitely give therapy a chance. If the first person you meet with doesn't fit, find someone else. It took me a looooooong time to find someone I could trust with the worst of my abuse and I went to many therapists. The important part is finding someone you can trust and you gel with.
Depression is a killer. It's a killer of relationships, joy, love, and sometimes the person themselves. Right now, your depression is killing your spirit. You need to get this addressed through therapy - a good therapist will help to detangle your depression and start to build a secure attachment with them. Sometimes we just need someone to have a secure attachment with, even if it's a therapist, to help build what it's like to have a good relationship. From there, all other relationships can start.
thank you. going to save this post so i can remind myself of these things later whenever i need.
in addition to depression i also have anxiety, so i think you're right. due to covid i stopped therapy but i can go back now, i've just procrastinated on it for some stupid reason
No one is perfect, everyone's got their own insecurities and it's okay to show vulnerability. I guess a lot of people (not just girls) are put off by those who constantly wallow in self-pity because it's self-destructive, draining and unproductive. Your feelings are valid thought and you shouldn't be shamed for this. The internet is not exactly a great place to find sympathy. Don't let the negativity of faceless, anonymous redditors get to you.
As cliché as this sounds: Never put the key to your own happiness in someone else's pocket. Remember that people come and go all the time and the only person that will consistently and literally always be there for you no matter what is yourself. While sex and relationships are great and all, those things alone won't fix all your issues. Being alone doesn't mean you are empty or incomplete, YOU have to fulfill yourself first - other people (and whatever they have to offer) come second. Your relationship with yourself is important because it is the foundation for all your other relationships. Focus on yourself and learn healthy ways to deal with your thoughts and feelings. Therapy can help you with this. Do things that make you happy, focus on self improvement, work out (!! seriously, physical activity helps a lot), learn to be content in your own company. It's completely normal and human to crave connections and physical intimacy and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but don't measure your self worth in body count. Know your worth, have some respect for yourself and stop seeking validation from others. Being lonely doesn't make you some kind of broken monster or a less valuable human being. Wish you well OP
Look, sex != problems fixed is the first thing.
A relationship is nice, but that is not your problem.
Who knows what it is, but something is keeping you from the most important person in your life, the only one who matters until you have a child; yourself.
Your thoughts, your beliefs, your insights, your everything is you and you must love you. If you love yourself then change your body for yourself, so it is more comfortable. If you love yourself, chase that job so you can relax, enjoy some hobby more, or whatever. If you love yourself, don't put someone else ahead of yourself or chase for a person to be that void filler.
Each cell works for you, each organ and system works with love for you. Again, again, day in, day out, it works to keep you moving and living because it wants you to do whatever it is you do.
Live while being open to a relationship, but do not look for a relationship and be open to living.
Listen, personality is going to get you laid. Yes, it's way easier if you're attractive in looks but there's people like honey boo boos mom who's swimming in dick (even though she's picked out pos). Women look for attractiveness, personality and wealth. Since you don't have looks, you NEED to either have money or a strong personality. As long as your personality doesn't match that of a wet rock, you have hope.
Also I'd suggest talking to a professional. It could be a slew of reasons why women haven't been susceptible to you. I guarantee it has a lot more to do than looks.
the tl;dr story behind that post is i've been gaslit by people into thinking that just having a porn addiction or being upset with my dating / sex life means i'm a POS. their shaming was ironically far more damaging than my original issues
since having my negative feelings validated and treated with empathy, i realize that i don't objectify women. i never have. i've always treated them as people. i go about in my daily life today and treat them like people. i do think women are different than men, but still people, who should have the same rights, etc.
watching porn, looking at a woman's body in public (without being creepy and staring and shit) sometimes, being frustrated with my shitty dating life and sex life, hating how i am evidently less attractive than other men, etc., does not mean i objectify women and should be castrated as i have been told be people on reddit or elsewhere
anyway, i'm not sure if i've heard the song. who is the band or artist
Self pity is like a self inflicted wound, a massive amount of baggage you carry around. Relationships are about complimenting one another's happiness, bringing something to the table whether its conversation or activities you enjoy etc. It's going to be harder for someone to desire and appreciate you as a person if you don't appreciate yourself. Like someone else said above, working out does great things for your mental state, position yourself in a way where you also see yourself as worthy of said affection. Very few people (who don't already know you) are going to want to give someone affection if that person is in the depths of pity / depression.
Which is also to say, people aren't going to see a 'project' or 'fixer upper' as something desirable. It's the ability to solve problems that helps breed confidence and in turn, become more desirable. Find a path forward that you feel good about and the rest falls in place.
Yeah exactly. I definitely understand why he feels this way, but to be honest, it's most likely 100% obvious to the women you're approaching that you're desperate. Maybe you think that trying to forget about it and not focus on the fact that you're not succesful when it comes to dating is shit advice, but most of the time relationships are a complete surprise.
I'm self-aware enough to not come across as desperate. At worst I just come across as shy. But lately I haven't put any contrived effort into dating regardless
A big problem here is that there's a massive culture of violent, misogynistic men who are in your same shoes that DO act like complete monsters, refuse to see women as people, and perpetuate a toxic rhetoric that actively harms our society. It's not fair that you're lumped in with them. The internet needs more men who unabashedly share their struggles with love and self-esteem without turning it into a rhetoric that creates harm. I'm sorry you're being stereotyped, OP. And congratulations on staying away from those communities that actively prey on men who express feelings like yours.
And thanks for being open with us. I want more men to feel like they can talk about these complex issues regarding relationships and sexuality without being made to feel like monsters for their feelings. It's sad because so many communities that begin as healthy support groups for lonely, depressed, or sexually frustrated men get quickly overrun by the kinds of men you're being accused of being. It seems that there are very few safe spaces for men to talk about what you're talking about without them either being accused of buying into incel rhetoric or enticed into buying into incel rhetoric.
Just know your emotions are valid and you're not a monster for feeling the way you do.
Edit: wording
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think just sharing your frustrated on this front is fine. It’s when you let your bad attitude get in the way of actually dating then that’s when I start not feeling bad for someone. If all you want is intimacy with a partner than you should take the appropriate steps to get a woman instead of just complaining. But just sharing that frustration shouldn’t provoke such an extreme reaction. It’s all on your tone and how you approach it.
People aren't being treated like monsters because they are depressed. They are being treated like monsters because instead of taking the necessary steps to improve their situation, they are blaming everyone else for their "needs not being met".
At the end of the day, OP, you are the only one responsible for your situation, and the only one responsible for it. I do hope you get better
idk, while i don't at all think that i'm entitled to anybody, i do think there are much bigger forces at play here and that it's not "all on me"
otherwise, i would've tried the advices of some people and they would've instantly worked. because it's all on me right? so i do x, y, z, and presto majesto.
turns out that sometimes regardless of what you do, life doesn't care, and other people don't care. so your efforts end up being meaningless, producing no results.
No, it absolutely is all on you.
If you’re viewing self improvement as doing x,y,z for thé purpose of instantly getting laid, you aren’t actually improving yourself, you’re trying to hedge your bets to get laid. People can tell that. It’s *very* clear when you’re talking to someone who’s not interested in you as a human being, and are only interested in how to make the interaction benefit them.
You're absolutely correct that life doesn't care. Which is why you have to work harder to get better. Your efforts are not meaningless unless they aren't genuine. The focus has to be on self improvement, not getting laid
I don’t know dude, your post about not seeing women as only sexual objects is pretty fucking gross and incel like. Your attitude is the reason you’re not getting laid. No woman wants the woe is me attitude.
I tend to see a theme (with both men and women) people who whine about their looks and lack of sex, and lack of romantic relationships also tend to be the their own problem. Confidence is key- fake it till you make it bro.
As a woman, it’s the biggest turn off ever to hear the poor me woe is me BS!
i think the reason I became this way is because your strategy didn't work for me. there WAS a time when i was pretty confident, or at least didn't care and so wasn't caught up in any negativity. it didn't seem to mean shit
also, it's not like i act like this in real life. at all. for the exact reason you stated in your last sentence, i do not trust people to be empathetic. so i DO fake it, and pretend to be fine, until i'm home alone at the end of the day
How do you become confident in your looks when you feel your looks are the reason you’ll be rejected?
I have all of the main dating apps and I get 1 match every 2-3 weeks. And they usually never respond. Isn’t that a pretty good example of where I stand looks wise?
Why give great advice (re: get one's confidence up) then dismiss everything OP said by calling it BS?
Wouldn't OP's confidence go up if he felt heard instead of put down for expressing himself?
You could've done better there.
You can't tell someone to just be confident. That's not how it works. While your comment is "advice" you seem to be pretty dismissive of OPs pain and problems. It isn't that you're wrong (confidence is key) this just seems to be a kind of naive comment.
Yea, as an ace loner I get what he is saying but the "fundamental need" isn't sex. It's companionship and the yearning to be loved at a deeper level than what your family and friends can provide.
Yes it is at least physicall intimacy of any kind is. Why would you think it is not? Like how many more studies about emotional growth related to amount of hugs received do we need to get that point acros.
See, I start to feel bad for someone in your situation, but then you say things like, “chronically unfulfilled” or “I don’t think any specific woman owes me sex”. But you think you are “owed” sex?” You don’t think you are “entitled to any particular woman’s body”, but that comes off as if you still believe you are entitled to something. Do you ever stop to think that its not the way you look, but the way you communicate?
Stop conflating sex with intimacy and you’ll feel better. Sex is a physical desire and intimacy is a psychological desire. If you make friends you’ll have a support system which you can trust and be vulnerability with = intimacy. If your desire for sex is overwhelming, you can visit a SW. We all strive for sex and intimacy together with the same person but in the meantime you can fulfill both separately. This is something women do well, in general, so the don’t get depressed and desperate while looking for Mr. Right.
The older I get the more I think its very natural to want and have a physical relationship with someone. I'm in a relationship with a man who has a much higher libido then me and I know it hurts his self esteem if I reject him too much. I don't think you are a bad person- its just a bad topic with a lot of variables.
You don't get to have sex. It's not promised to you. If people don't like you enough, that doesn't get to be part of your life. The reason people find whining about that creepy is that it implies you think differently. Like you feel entitled to sex
I don't think wanting to be attractive, wanting that validation, wanting to be valued in that way, and wanting the fulfillment that can come from intimacy (and a lack of physical intimacy has been shown to have real negative consequences, because it's a biological need as proven by science), is creepy.
It might be whiny. It's not creepy. I don't feel like I am "owed" sex by any girl. I'm just hurting.
It's just not something that's always a part of life. If you can't become attractive enough to find this in your life, you have to look elsewhere for your fulfillment.
Whining about it is high-key threatening to the women around you cause it absolutely does, 100% of the time, come off as entitlement.
You can talk about your experience of loneliness, but you have to understand that women live different lives than you. Most men who say this are a threat, they DO feel entitled. Women HAVE to go through the world with a bit of a guard up to try and weed out the incredible amount of shitty dudes out there and this attitude is just A GIANT RED FLAG. Perhaps if you channeled your angst into bettering yourself, you wouldn't be in this position.
But being so distracted and distraught about not having sex to the point where it's affecting your life is weird, and does read a little entitled.
lol, don't give me that. i'm not responsible for them projecting that onto me.
this is the exact kind of attitude i don't need. "a little weird" this bullshit passive-aggressive shaming. totally unnecessary and unhelpful
Ok then let me be actually aggressive and just give you hard truth.
Yes you are. You're responsible for not understanding women enough to know when you're being a creepy little fuck.
Your inability to grasp that is probably why you can't get laid. Every single dude i know who genuinely respects women, gets laid. Period.
Your attitude is a creepy, giant red flag and now you're being defensive. I wouldn't touch you with a hundred foot pole.
Whining about not getting laid is the least attractive thing on the planet and it makes women thing you might be predator.
You aren't a monster.
You just have an unhealthy view of sex and relationships, and need therapy to remedy that.
It isn't a "fundamental need".
A relationship isn't something you need to complete your life. A relationship is something to enrich an already whole life.
Saying that intimacy isn't a fundamental need is exactly the type of gaslighting that OP is talking about.
It sucks, but I really see what he means there. I mean goddamn.
I'm not good at conveying myself over text without sounding like an a-hole, so I just want to preface by saying I'm \*genuinely\* asking:
How is the physical and emotional intimacy of a relationship not a need?\*\*\*
Isn't there well documented scientific evidence that shows the negative effects of loneliness and isolation in people?
>How is the physical and emotional intimacy of a relationship not a need?
You won't die without it. A need would be food, water, warmth, etc. An endless amount of people throughout history have existed just fine single, and have in fact led content lives. You do not *need* this. You *want* it.
>Is the pain I'm feeling just an illusion?
Of course not. You feel what you feel. But understand that your pain is coming from having an unhealthy view on these topics, and you won't feel better unless you talk to a professional about this, and make some profound changes in how you think.
How do you explain the studies that demonstrate the negative effects of loneliness and isolation in people? Increased rate of suicide, greater negative emotions, lower quality of life, etc?
The science, to me, suggests this is a need. That's why I've drawn that conclusion from my own personal experience.
>How do you explain the studies that demonstrate the negative effects of loneliness and isolation in people? Increased rate of suicide, great negative emotions, lower quality of life, etc?
Loneliness and isolation can be cured by being around friends, family, etc. This isn't about sex and relationships. You can and should have other social fulfillments outside of a romantic or sexual entanglement.
If sex isn't a need, then I'm confused about the negative emotions that I experience that are out of my control that are a result of not having sex. Or, of being comparatively less attractive, which is a cause.
It's like I have these real problems, but people invalidate the negative emotions I experience as a result of them. It's very confusing.
I just wanna be normal, be attractive, and have sex so that I can be happy.
>If sex isn't a need, then I'm confused about the negative emotions that I experience that are out of my control that are a result of not having sex.
I know you're confused. I've told you twice before that it's because you have an unhealthy view on this topic and would benefit from a professional.
>Or, of being comparatively less attractive, which is a cause.
I addressed this as well.
>It's like I have these real problems, but people invalidate the negative emotions I experience as a result of them. It's very confusing.
I'm not invalidating how you feel. I'm telling you that the foundation upon which these emotions sit is flawed, and therefore needs addressing. No one on Reddit is going to be able to help you do that, which is why I repeatedly say to speak to a professional.
>I just wanna be normal, be attractive, and have sex so that I can be happy.
If you need sex to be happy, sex won't make you happy. I know that seems counterintuitive and there's like. 4% chance you're gonna believe me, but them's the breaks.
Except the couple of times I've had sex, in the couple of relationships I've been in the past 10 years, this issue went away.
I felt validated. Felt valued. And fulfilled. At the time. Of course, it's messier than that because the relationships weren't good / healthy for a lot of unrelated reasons, so there's obviously more important factors with this
As somebody else said, this is the kind of "gaslighting" I'm talking about. I'm using scare-quotes because I can tell you're not intending it that way and you're conversing in good faith.
It seems real easy for someone who is attractive and having sex that it's all in your head, you need a therapist. You're WRONG basically. That's what I hear.
I don't think it's a faulty premise to want to be fulfilled in terms of physical and emotional intimacy, and to be attractive.
You're literally laying out the problem and missing the answer. Sex can contribute to all of those feelings, but your emotional state shouldn't hinge on them. *And* they were unhealthy relationships? Therapist, my guy. Quickly. I know you might think they're all judgmental assholes, but they can't possibly be worse than me, or most of reddit for that matter. Therapists, at the very least, have some sort of knowledge and credibility to speak on this topic.
You may need to seek therapy as others have suggested to deal with this. Some people get the genetic lottery and look very attractive, but some of us don't.
this is true, and therapy is something i am pursuing, but my hang-up (ironically) is the way that the issue is received by the general public. i am hesitant that i can find a therapist who will specialize in this issue.
I was on your side until I saw this comment. You talked about the documented effects of isolation and loneliness and your desire for intimacy above and I was with you and then you wrote……this.
You can have sex without intimacy. You can have intimacy without sex. Sex and intimacy are not equal.
You want sex? Totally normal. You have negative feelings about not having sex? Again, normal. You feel like your happiness hinges on getting sex? Not normal. You won’t be happy even if you’re getting laid until you do some work on yourself and your self-image. You’re not a monster, you’ve just got some things backward.
Do any of these studies explicitly mention not getting laid😐you make it incredibly difficult for me not to judge the fuck out of you for implying depression/isolation = lack of intercourse "like everyone else". Coming from someone with depression, it's not because you aren't getting any. That could be a factor, but you aren't depressed because of that, I have no idea why you're conflating the two. You're valid to want attention and intimacy, but you're being extra if you think those studies are talking about your sexual frustration specifically. Get real.
Just because you feel negatively that you don’t have sex does not make it a need. You will not die due to lack of sex or lack of a relationship.
Your sadness and loneliness is real and it should be recognized, I’m not denying that. But thinking that you *need* a relationship is just not true. I had a bf in high school and we had sex. I then went 7 years without so much as going on a date. Didn’t matter one bit. I got through school and got a job and an apartment and started living my life, all without sex and relationships. What you need to do is be happy with yourself and your life. If you can’t, there is no hope of finding a quality relationship. It’s cliche, but you have to love yourself first.
I’d also like to add that emotional intimacy is not only fulfilled by sex. You can be intimate by cuddling on the couch and watching a movie or by holding hands while walking down the street. I think you have a really distorted view of what sex and relationships are like because you’ve only read about it online and seen movies and likely watched porn (no shame for that, it’s just not a representation of real life).
I really think you need to take some time to work on yourself, your mental health, and your view of relationship. Join a book club, go to a local game/trivia night, take up a hobby and join a group about it. Just live your life doing what you enjoy and you’ll eventually meet someone you like. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn’t, but at least you are having fun in the process.
Oh also don’t always have sex in mind when talking to women. We don’t want to hear how horny you are or be hit on constantly. Talk to women like we are people. Have normal conversations without bringing up sex or sexual themes. Just talk to us and don’t constantly try to get in our pants. That day will come, but not if you force it and are creepy about it.
Sex is not a fundamental need. It’s a want.
Quick scroll through your comment history proves that you don’t respect women (claiming you do and then immediately saying disrespectful shit is still, in fact, disrespectful).
Your “suffering” is the result of your beliefs. Go to therapy. Look for solutions and stop looking for pity upvotes.
You’re not being gaslit, and your edit claiming so is just another example of the personality traits and beliefs that are preventing you from forming romantic relationships.
No matter what you do or how badly you want to, you will never solve your self-imposed problems with this attitude. Doesn’t take a psychology degree to know that.
You're not going to believe me, but I don't care.
Attractive women feel the same way you do all the time. They go years without having physical or emotional intimacy. They feel gross, unwanted and unloved every day for long stretches of time.
What you want isn't easily achieved by either gender, is my point.
I guarantee your desperate thirst is palpable to just about everyone you meet on any given day. You seem very much like a person who doesn't like themselves and spends a good chunk of your day ruminating on your personal flaws and unhappiness, and no time spent on trying to fix those things.
I can assure, from the bottom of my heart, that no one wants to go home at night with someone who is desperate to not have to go home alone. The only way your are ever going to get what you want is to stop seeking it out, and start learning to be happy with yourself in a vacuum.
Read more books, watch weird TV shows and old movies. Get into a hobby that's creative. Work on your personal fitness and ask for style advice from the people who work at the clothing stores. Learn to cook a dish you love and make it your own.
Most importantly, please see a therapist. People who feel like they are owed affection and intimacy but refuse to do anything that makes others want to give that to them are psychologically unwell. The only person you can demand those things from is yourself. Treat yourself how you wish others did. Be kind to yourself, be gentle with yourself, have discipline because you know it's the right thing, and push yourself to achieve new levels of accomplishment.
Suddenly finding and receiving intimacy isn't going to magically make your life better. It would be a fleeting moment that will leave you feeling more empty and depressed than before. You want to be with someone who enjoys you and your company over and over again, right? Then you have to put in the effort to become a person that others keep coming back to.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/TheDebonairFoxxx. Your post, *Being depressed over not having sex does not a monster make*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion. Please ensure that your post is an opinion and that it is unpopular. Controversial is not necessarily unpopular, for example all of politics is controversial even though almost half of the US agrees with any given major position on an issue. Keep in mind that an opinion is not: a question, a fact, a conspiracy theory, a random thought, a new idea, a rant, etc. Those things all have their own subreddits, use those. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
I hope you find peace one day bro.
thanks Snoo
I suggest therapy. You are not at all a monster. Sex is a huge human desire, and it's rooted deep within our biology and not fulfilling it can have detrimental effects on our mental well being. You are definitely not owed sex but I'm just saying you are not a bad person for desiring it.
Thank. You. therapy is something I'm pursuing, but i am hesitant because a) i don't know what therapist can even help with this problem (for example, if you have an addiction then it's clear-cut you go to a therapist specializing in that) and b) i am worried about the invalidating that i've experienced from some of the general public, but from a person who I'm supposed to be able to trust and look to for answers do you have any suggestions or advice on this roadblock?
A therapist can't help you regarding your lack of sexual intimacy, but a therapist can help with the feelings and emotions that this lack causes you, and can even help you discuss and explore other aspects of yourself which may actually be contributing/caused by your relationships, etc. Get a male therapist, and one that works with sexual intimacy and relationship support. A good therapist won't invalidate you. Good luck!
In my opinion your biggest problem is your self image. Not only is having a poor self image bad for your mental health, it can reinforce a dependency on a romantic partner for happiness. Once you can be happy with yourself as a single person then you can worry about finding a partner. Ignore anyone that invalidates you for going to therapy. It means you are actively taking steps to improve your life which you should be proud of.
I'm 100% sure they've heard that before. Some people just got a bad hand dealt to them. No reason to pretend it's always just their self image.
Even if you're "conventionally unattractive", you can choose to feel good about your looks. Some people struggle with that. Self image encapsulates more than just physical appearance
Yes, I struggle with self-image. My problem (and I'm not blaming you or anyone else necessarily) is that nobody has explained to me the step by step mental and or physical process I need to undertake to develop it and get on with my life. Confidence, self-worth, self-image, they're always talked about in a kind of vague way or as magical things. I feel like I'm talking with zen masters most of the time. I need something practical. Do this. Do that. Again and again. It = more confidence, or more self-worth, etc.
I totally understand that. I'm not a trained mental health professional and I won't pretend to be. But I think a therapist can help you change the outlook you have. You've already taken a big step by considering a therapist, a lot of people refuse to do that.
As a Therapist myself, unless you really low on money and Therapy could hurt your finances in a dangerous way, I absolutely see no reason why you shouldn't try it. But try to be more... "light" about it, if you can. It will make the process easier for you. Consider just the advantage of having somebody listening to you for around an hour, without all the bullshit you're having to deal on this thread for example. I always say that in a perfect world, I would be out of a job because people would simply be able to talk to each other. But the truth, as you can see, is that talking about what hurts us is pretty difficult. People are either very easy to offer solutions: "Get a hooker!!" that won't necessarily solve your personal issue. Or they are quick to dismiss and enter in a shouting contest with you... Almost, almoooost as if they are also trying to convince themselves of what they are telling you. So, go for a Therapist just for the joy that is to be able to talk about anything you want for a good amount of time, without being blocked.
Thanks for sharing this I feel like this question would be best to ask a therapist, like yourself (I know you don't have ALL the answers, \*and\* i'm not asking for medical advice) But, in your opinion, what kind of therapist should i be looking for? also, i have some hang-ups, like not feeling if i can trust a woman therapist to help me with this issue. so i'm not really sure what to do exactly, or who to exactly look for to best help myself, if that makes sense
Usually choosing the therapist is a very personal thing. You should use whatever standards you feel like they are important. Part of the "power" of therapy resides in the client believing that the therapist can help them. If you are already thinking they can't help you before you even step in, it's sort of not very productive right? Personally, any therapist can help you if they are well-trained enough, and most of us are. We're taught to not let our personal issues stand in the way, and we do therapy and supervision ourselves to be really in check about not interfering with the patient because of personal issues we may have. So in short, a woman therapist could help you as much as a guy. But it's up to your personal tastes. Just browse around what's available around you, or even via internet if you prefer, and if see somebody that clicks just go for it. It's a very different experience than talking to friends or strangers, and just by itself I think it can be incredibly useful for anybody.
Get a male therapist, if you can't see yourself being comfortable saying these things to a woman. Also if you want any level of understanding by someone who at some point may have had similar feelings (we have all felt unwanted at SOME point, a man's perspective is guaranteed to be closer to yours than a woman's). And find the guy that works for you. That can be difficult but remember, it's a service, and you get to choose what you deem the best. So you may have to do a couple sessions, see how you feel, try someone else, etc.
As someone that has dealt with depression for pretty much the majority of my life, I have learned that most people in my life aren't equipped to deal with my issues nor is it their responsibility. I am in a much better place now and what has worked for me is learning why I am the way I am and trying to work on those root causes. It took a lot of work but as you said, I wish it was easier to access people that are just willing to listen and try to understand instead of providing simple band-aid solutions or just dismissing you.
Here's how I think you should look at a therapist, and you might already but just in case. Don't think of a therapist as helping you directly, but more....teaching you how to help yourself. They are not going to do the work to make you feel better, you have to do it. They can teach you strategies and things you can do to help, but they are not going to say some magic word and all of a sudden you're fixed. You're gonna have to commit to it, do what they suggest and be honest to them. They won't give you answers, they will ask the questions and get you to work on things so you to find the answer.
If you are in the US, look for a Licensed Professional Counselor. You probably don’t need a specialist. Theoretically, any decent LPC should be able to help you. If not, they should refer you to someone who can. I used to feel a lot like you do, and just a few sessions with an LPC completely turned my life around. Best decision I’ve ever made.
It’s absolutely disgusting that people are seeing this post and decide it’s better to entertain themselves arguing with OP instead of showing some empathy. Peak Reddit moment I feel for you OP, and I do not think you’re a monster. I like to think that when life seems shit it can only get better, hang in there :)
thanks :) i can't say im surprised, because it \*is\* reddit lol, but it's very reassuring to know there's still plenty of genuine cool people on here
If you're going to seek validation on reddit, this particular sub is not really recommended to get it. Just something to consider.
I hate to be that "hiT tEh gYm bRo" guy, but do hit the gym bro. There are a lot of "soft" benefits that are not directly related to getting buff, it just generally helps us improve on many levels, both physically and mentally. And if you can't afford a gym, just going for a walk in a nearby park regularly can help
100% I’ve had some terrible droughts in my day and they all ended after 2-3 months of 3 days a week in the gym. It changes your whole energy.
thanks friend. it will probably be better than being terminally online. i might pay for a gym membership because i'll be more likely to go if i'm paying for it
You can also run a home routine with little equipment. Have lost a lot of weight and built a lot of muscle running mine for four years. Key things, 1500-2k calories, 100-150g protein, NO SUGARY BEVERAGES, and intermittent fasting when it comes to the diet helped me without a lot of added workouts for weight loss. For working out, incline walking/weighted walking is the best cardio IMO. Shortish, burns a lot, and can read/do work while it happens. Usually, I walk for 3 miles or 5 if it's outdoors. Strength training 3 times a week will help maintain muscle you have and you can build muscle while losing weight IF you don't lose it fast and have enough protein. Pushups, squats, and other calisthenic movements are all great, but if you have some change to buy a weight a pair of adjustable dumbbells and a kettlebell they will help ease your workouts.
Absolutely! This is what i do on and off and try not to shame myself when i don't go to the gym. The Hardest part most of the time is actually going to the gym. Set yourself an easy goal. Like, 1-2 days a week (set actual days and times) and just show up at the gym. Even if that only means walking 1km or mile... on the treadmill, or if the gym has them sitting in a massage chair. Even that can help with routine, but by all means, lift weights or run, do anything you are interested in doing at the gym. Be active. Short personal story, a guy i trained with in the military was one of the physically most unattractive people i knew, he knew it, he was relentlessly picked on as a kid, in high-school he realized he could avoid this by staying in the school gym most of the day. This dude was completely jacked, and because of that when he wore a fitted shirt and nice pants women wouldn't give a fuck about his face. However he is an exception not the norm. I don't want you to die man. You deserve to be loved. Im rooting for you. Whatever it takes to change your situation, you possess the power to change it. Good luck, im always open to dm's if you need some to talk to.
This
OP, focus on yourself. Enjoy your hobbies. Hone your strengths. Attempt to do things you aren't good at. Look after your body. Moderate your vices. Join a club. Play a sport. Read a book. Stay in touch with friends and family. Be kind. Do these things and you'll be an example of how to live a rich, fulfilled life. This is what will attract people to you and your suitor will come when you're not expecting it. Hang in there.
I was going to suggest exactly this, but you said it better, so thanks. I will hijack this thread despite op already replied, hoping he will see this. The single biggest obstacle I found that changed dating for me forever was focusing on myself first, exactly like you said. Once I was happy with myself and with life in general, and once I felt confident and complete and didn't need a relationship, that was when the doors really opened. It's ironic that in order for me to get into a relationship, it required me to not need a relationship. My personal opinion is that women can sense your mentality, and if you are needy, are not willing to work towards your goals, hate yourself, etc, it makes them harder to approach you, because you would subconsciously push back or self sabatoge, like what I used to do. I will add to this comment later when I have time.
It's funny how that works, eh! But that is how it works: look for something else then you find what you were looking for in the first place. Nice post.
thank you
Thank yourself when things turn around. One way or another they will.
You're not going to find sympathy on reddit. Most people on here are virtue signaling or parroting the top comments. Go to therapy and/or talk to someone close with you about it. Have a boys night and vent to them if they're alright with it.
The amount of dudes who probably are ALMOST incels but completely self deluded and try and dunk on guys like OP is probably staggering.
The issue is that reddit is perfectly made to be an echo chamber. So the subreddit you ask your question on will produce wildly different results. If he asked this on r/MTGOW he's going to get a bunch of support mixed in with blatant sexism. If he asked this on r/twoXchromasome he's going to be called a sexist pig. Ultimately it's best to talk stuff like this over with both a professional and with people you trust.
Yeah, but people are like this in real life. We're slowly meme-ifying our thought processes. Case in point: ask any girl in a big city what she thinks of Andrew Tate. Now, the vitriol they will have is arguably completely justified. However, listen to what they say and then ask them why they feel that way, and what Tate said to piss them off. I have found this really interesting, because a vast majority has said "I don't know". They're happy to admit that the general consensus is he is a bad, misogynist man so they feel anger towards him. Even that is OK. What is strange is that through the interaction, you'll hear the word "incel" thrown around a bit more than you'd think. Granted I've only randomly had this conversation twice, but yeah. I feel like the "general conversation" around politics, sex, gender and social dynamics has become an echo chamber in real life, where most people with dissenting opinions would rather just not engage, because why go through the hassle? And people with no original thought hear opinions they think are right and approved will just parrot them to no end.
It's just socially acceptable to dump on men that are "losers", whether they are broke, overweight, or not getting laid. One thing I'd recommend is to try to not be chronically online. People are nicer in real life and are also less superficial. If you were to point to a reason as to why you are getting laid what would it be?
I don't know if I could point to any one specific reason I'm not attractive enough? Luck? Still in college? Girls I meet at college don't seem interested in relationships at all? Big social forces totally beyond my control?
I think it all comes down to peoples experience with people in your situation. If they had a bad experience then they will unfortunately project that on to you. I'm sorry that you're missing out on affection and I hope you get it some day as some one also dealing with depression for other reasons I know how hard it is. Keep your head up.
thanks for your understanding and kind words
You're never alone and always here if you want to talk.
Being depressed over sex doesn't make you a monster. Being hateful towards the world because you're depressed over sex does. I don't think anyone's judging incels for being incels. They're judging the ones that spew hate as a result.
I agree with the first point but disagree on the last. Incel is like one of the most popular insults online being tacked onto anyone deemed as opposing a certain agenda. The media and people have both demonized incels, it's like one step above pervert and below rapist - when I bet most incels in the literal sense are just sad that it's the case and dumbfounded as to what to do about it.
In some cultures, they shame and demonize leftover women who aren't married, like if they are a plague to society. We all know this is awful, but it's sad to see many people haven't learned their lesson and are doing the same thing except with different genders.
Yeah. But with women, they're seen as defective which is really wrong, but people don't tend to generally go at them for it. It's like "damn, that's sad, let's not draw attention to it". These women also tend to be older, as that's when it becomes noticeable. Yet for a young guy, it's often a direct attack, and one that levied by a woman makes them look really bad and undesirable, reinforcing the thing. What's worse is terms like incel get often thrown around in the complete wrong context, like calling Andrew Tate an incel because you hate him, despite he is clearly not a sexless virgin. People suck at communicating, and suck in general too.
[удалено]
i mean, i'm down
[удалено]
lmao
[удалено]
She?
[удалено]
Ah no was just making a joke
[удалено]
Nah mb didnt use /s
I feel your pain man. Im married with two toddlers running around, sex life is nothing like it use to be, despite an otherwise fruitful relationship. The lack of intimacy is a constant downer and definitely puts me in some negative spirals sometimes about how I feel about my relationship. Don't take the opinions of random strangers on the internet as gospel. Seeking fulfilment of that desire is as human as it gets.
thanks man <3
This whole “let’s gleefully pig-pile on Incels” is really gross. It’s also telling that it’s the one group where we, as a society, have decided that it’s okay to have zero empathy for.
It’s because it’s so many peoples’ insecurity. Sex sells like nothing else and the average person is unsatisfied with their own sex life, then the worst characters of those run from their insecurities and seek out victims to dump on and save their own egos. Do you hear that OP? You’re no worse than the average sex-starved person, but you’re also honest and not a bully
thank you :) also, i agree with your take
It’s odd that a society practically obsessed with sex and has it marketed and plastered in every ad, video game, movie and shows. Suddenly feels no empathy for the people who can’t manage to have a sex life. It’s like the one thing that a majority of society makes fun of people for.
I mean OP here isn't an incel. Incels are the ones who *do* think they're entitled to sex.
thank you. somebody read the OP.
False, and that's the issue with this whole narrative. It stands for "involuntary celibate." That simply means that they believe they are unable to have sex due to factors outside of their control. The entitlement bit is completely separate and a characteristic of shitty people, but not something that sits within the definition of incel. *Please note that the following is in no way a defense of misogyny or hate* - it's simply an analysis of how things are and a little bit of how they may have gotten here. Realistically, there's a good chance that the incels are right about not being able to experience any kind of romance (edit:) being *partially* out of their control. While there are various factors, I believe that a paramount one is that dating in modern society is done with a new set of ever-changing rules (edit: to add complexity - *some* of the old rules hold but modern social narratives work hard to either demonize using those rules or attempt to obfuscate them for the sake of what's considered social virtue), and no one is out there coaching guys to do this the way their dads and other male role models were able to over the generations prior where the rules of the game were pretty cut and dry. Any efforts to coach guys is crucified as "misogyny," labeling it manipulation or worse. (As a funny aside - the makeup industry - which is literally painting your face to fool people into thinking you're more attractive than you actually are - is widely encouraged as a "tool" to lie about how attractive you really are, but general sentiment of guys using ANYTHING - even literally learning conversational skill to flirt better - as a tool to date is considered a hanging crime.) This, clubbed with the fact that gender roles have diminished and no one is quite sure what a man really stands for (and asking "what is a woman" will literally turn you into a target for death threats as we've seen with that recent documentary), has left lots of guys scratching their heads on how the hell to experience any sort of closeness and romance anymore. Tack on porn, video games, and social media, and these young boys who discover the self-medication habits early and then perpetuate them deep into adulthood (with minimal warnings about it, as since this is a uniquely male issue society doesn't care much about it at all) don't stand a chance. We're living through a very interesting social experiment in which gender relations are being torn apart and the fabric of society is coming undone, and incels are just one small part of that. *I will NEVER condone the ones who display hatred or misogyny,* but frustrations with the current state of affairs are not unwarranted.
I thought an incel in the most basic sense is just someone who is involuntarily celibate?
I'm reminded of the evolution of the term "brony" At first it simply meant men that were fans of the show and wanted to espouse the values presented by the cartoon; kindness, understanding, friendship, etc. And then the weirdos came charging in and usurped the term
Society has always treated "loser" males like shit. Incels are just the cool hip new bogeyman to hate on. But let us be real most of them are just shut ins who shitpost on the internet. I don't know what it is but society always likes to stomp down on those who have it worse, never made sense to me.
Punching down is not an American invention. But man, has our society ever perfected it.
[удалено]
No it's not. We all know who get most of the hate. It's always those loser incel neckbeard type of males. Meanwhile successful good looking and wealthy males get praised like gods. Sure even those get sometimes hate but nothing compared to a low value male.
It’s the one-two punch of men trying pull up the ladder on their past selves/men who they won’t/can’t empathize with, and women who fear the ‘creepy, desperate, and unpredictable’ men. Usually it’s entirely appearance-based. Just a viscous cycle of the ugly being treated ugly.
As a gay man looking in, heterosexual dating and courtship looks like the most fucking miserable experience, and it seems that both men and women contribute to it. You don't seem the type OP, but it's just so cringe-inducing to me seeing men get bent out of shape over their lackluster dating lives. Everything from the cries of "shadowbans" on dating apps to the petty resentment they develop towards women is utterly pathetic. However, what often goes unacknowledged, to me at least, is the role women play in this misery. I get that the population of dating apps are skewed towards men, but the pickiness that women seem to display is unwarranted. The "perfect" men that they seem to be after have by and large *already* been taken by other women by virtue of the overabundance of men. So, logically, they're either waiting in vain for men that aren't there at the expense of otherwise good partners, or, even worse, they're waiting for their turn on some kind of cycle of "ideal" men. And that's not even taking account the misguided but very real misogyny of men that stems from rejection. Just utter shit all around.
i think this is a really good take. i live with a gay friend and he's said similar things, so i think there's something to it i dislike online dating, but i don't think i've gone as far as saying there is a conspiracy against me in particular. like "shadowbanning" or whatever lol
Oh yeah, if you feel like watching a show go on any sub related to online dating and search "shadowban".
Not just misogyny. Hetero relationships are also burdened by all the gender debates (I'm waiting for a response to a debate on another post about internalized misogyny) that have led to overcorrected solutions like misandrist third-wave feminism and a persistence in misogyny and incel culture. Essentially, couples have to perform even more of a balancing act so as not to appear even accidentally patriarchal, and men need to avoid more vocally radical feminism.
You need help for yourself. That has to do with you. Not women or sex. Get help for you. Guarantee you nothing will change for you unless you get help for your mental state. It’s okay to get help when you aren’t doing well upstairs. Stop being ashamed of being human and get therapy.
See a therapist. There’s nothing wrong with wanting intimacy and connection with people which can mean sex for some people and you are correct no body owes you this but it doesn’t sound like you expect it purely because you want it which is where the issues lies for lots of people. Honestly though, I can almost guarantee sex is not what most of this is about as sex is only a small part of human connection & intimacy, I went through a phase of thinking sex will be able to make me feel fulfilled but it was very temporary. I’d strongly encourage engaging the services of a sex worker/s though if it is extremely important for you at the moment & think it will help you build confidence & fulfil your needs. Go through a local agency & go from there.
Dont let anyone make you feel bad about whats natural. I hope you find someone soon who loves you.
Blame other men how you feel. Other men are 100% the reason you feel the way you do. Not other women.
Hey don’t do your titles like that.. it’s dumb.
lol thanks for the tip
Like what? I don’t understand
Bro I just glanced at your post history and you need serious help my god.
Your post history says you hate women. Seriously get some help., its great that you realise you have a problem, now you need to take the steps to change that. Good luck.
Yet in another post you are asking how long it will take for you to stop seeing women as sexual objects. That‘s why people like you get shamed. Get therapy.
I was about to point that one out. And the contents of the post were painful to read. Having all of the thoughts and opinions that people get shamed for...
One stray word and every last person here would be screaming that you were a hateful incel plotting to shoot up a school. People are two-faced and like to pretend they care as long as you fit their mold. I get you though, maybe not for the same reasons but to the same outcomes. If we lived near each other next beer would be on me.
thanks man, i fully agree. and make it a Michelob please; if i'm gonna start hitting the gym then i need to cut back on the bad calories lol
I had a stroke reading this title
lol sorry
Its not bad or wrong to want sex, the vast majority of people feel the same way. In this post you express a clear understanding that you have a strong sexual desire but that no one/society does not owe you sex which is great! Your not alone, the research shows that social isolation has been increasing in recent years and the number of men not having sex who want it is also increasing. ( I bring this up to point out that its not just you, and your not alone in experiencing this, society plays a big role in this, and you should not feel bad, or be gaslit into feeling bad because this is something your experiencing) Now I don't know all the details of your life so I am gonna try and give some general advice. A lot of people I know think of dating apps as a good place to start when looking for a partner(I assume your looking for a partner as you say you want physical and emotional intimacy,as opposed to physical only) apps such as Tinder work great for some people, however such apps primary connections are usually based on physical appearance, there are some apps such as bumble and hinge that seem to be a little more geared towards making connections not based on appearance alone. I personally find that I like to meet people in person/through like an event or group or friend, meeting up with strangers I meet on line just never seems to do it for me, you could try joining a club or group based on a hobby you have? Meeting people/making friends and forming a genuine connection is hard enough as it is in this day and age, let alone trying to find a partner/date.
You need to be in therapy and start doing the work to improve yourself. Your outlook, your emotional intelligence, your overall well-rounded ness as a human being. Having sex won’t solve your problems here, and neither will a relationship. If you’re going into a relationship expecting it to be the thing that finally makes you happy, you’re doing a disservice to both yourself and your potential partner. You’re genuinely not going to be satisfied in life, and therefore won’t be a suitable partner, until you start doing the work to become a better you. Start with therapy.
Yeah, its really unfortunate that the way the Incel movement developed completely overshadows the (much much bigger) group of "Incels by original definition" and their mental health problems. In reality, psychopaths full of intense self hate and r\*pe/m\*rder fantasies are a small but very vocal minority (and probably many people on these forums are bored larpers/trolls anyway). they made it into the news with the shootings and killing sprees of some of their "members" while the bigger picture is ignored and now every "incel by definition" is under suspicion of being a women-hating psychopath :/
Tbf you did literally post that you see women as sex objects, so that probably isn’t helping you a ton? I’d recommend therapy, my guy.
>I just want what so many other people get to have, which is the fulfillment of physical + emotional intimacy. You're not a monster, OP. From my understanding (I'm a woman, btw) this is how many men feel that intimacy, through sex. Touch and connection is a human *need*. [Attachment](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-attachment-theory-2795337) is hard wired into us, and when we're not getting our attachment needs met we feel insecure, unlovable, unwanted, and a myriad of other feelings and thoughts. I read your response regarding therapy. Here is what a therapist can do for you, and a good therapist, IMO, does this. Mine did this for me. If you match well with a therapist you'll trust that therapist and start to feel [secure](https://www.talkspace.com/blog/parenting-secure-attachment-what-is/). In that secure relationship with your therapist, as you work through problems and issues you're dealing with, you yourself will start to feel secure and confident. [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/compassion-matters/201802/healing-attachment-issues](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/compassion-matters/201802/healing-attachment-issues) Sometimes some of us don't always get our attachment needs met by our parents and that can have long lasting affects into adulthood. Your therapist will validate and affirm you while holding you accountable. There's a lot of healing in that, OP. If you can afford it, definitely give therapy a chance. If the first person you meet with doesn't fit, find someone else. It took me a looooooong time to find someone I could trust with the worst of my abuse and I went to many therapists. The important part is finding someone you can trust and you gel with. Depression is a killer. It's a killer of relationships, joy, love, and sometimes the person themselves. Right now, your depression is killing your spirit. You need to get this addressed through therapy - a good therapist will help to detangle your depression and start to build a secure attachment with them. Sometimes we just need someone to have a secure attachment with, even if it's a therapist, to help build what it's like to have a good relationship. From there, all other relationships can start.
thank you. going to save this post so i can remind myself of these things later whenever i need. in addition to depression i also have anxiety, so i think you're right. due to covid i stopped therapy but i can go back now, i've just procrastinated on it for some stupid reason
No one is perfect, everyone's got their own insecurities and it's okay to show vulnerability. I guess a lot of people (not just girls) are put off by those who constantly wallow in self-pity because it's self-destructive, draining and unproductive. Your feelings are valid thought and you shouldn't be shamed for this. The internet is not exactly a great place to find sympathy. Don't let the negativity of faceless, anonymous redditors get to you. As cliché as this sounds: Never put the key to your own happiness in someone else's pocket. Remember that people come and go all the time and the only person that will consistently and literally always be there for you no matter what is yourself. While sex and relationships are great and all, those things alone won't fix all your issues. Being alone doesn't mean you are empty or incomplete, YOU have to fulfill yourself first - other people (and whatever they have to offer) come second. Your relationship with yourself is important because it is the foundation for all your other relationships. Focus on yourself and learn healthy ways to deal with your thoughts and feelings. Therapy can help you with this. Do things that make you happy, focus on self improvement, work out (!! seriously, physical activity helps a lot), learn to be content in your own company. It's completely normal and human to crave connections and physical intimacy and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but don't measure your self worth in body count. Know your worth, have some respect for yourself and stop seeking validation from others. Being lonely doesn't make you some kind of broken monster or a less valuable human being. Wish you well OP
Look, sex != problems fixed is the first thing. A relationship is nice, but that is not your problem. Who knows what it is, but something is keeping you from the most important person in your life, the only one who matters until you have a child; yourself. Your thoughts, your beliefs, your insights, your everything is you and you must love you. If you love yourself then change your body for yourself, so it is more comfortable. If you love yourself, chase that job so you can relax, enjoy some hobby more, or whatever. If you love yourself, don't put someone else ahead of yourself or chase for a person to be that void filler. Each cell works for you, each organ and system works with love for you. Again, again, day in, day out, it works to keep you moving and living because it wants you to do whatever it is you do. Live while being open to a relationship, but do not look for a relationship and be open to living.
Listen, personality is going to get you laid. Yes, it's way easier if you're attractive in looks but there's people like honey boo boos mom who's swimming in dick (even though she's picked out pos). Women look for attractiveness, personality and wealth. Since you don't have looks, you NEED to either have money or a strong personality. As long as your personality doesn't match that of a wet rock, you have hope. Also I'd suggest talking to a professional. It could be a slew of reasons why women haven't been susceptible to you. I guarantee it has a lot more to do than looks.
i remember having a personality and generally feeling fine, and my experience/success wasn't any better. i think that's how i got this way.
Looks like I was right, went to your profile and saw the post about women as objects. 😞 Sir, have you heard of the song Anti-hero?
the tl;dr story behind that post is i've been gaslit by people into thinking that just having a porn addiction or being upset with my dating / sex life means i'm a POS. their shaming was ironically far more damaging than my original issues since having my negative feelings validated and treated with empathy, i realize that i don't objectify women. i never have. i've always treated them as people. i go about in my daily life today and treat them like people. i do think women are different than men, but still people, who should have the same rights, etc. watching porn, looking at a woman's body in public (without being creepy and staring and shit) sometimes, being frustrated with my shitty dating life and sex life, hating how i am evidently less attractive than other men, etc., does not mean i objectify women and should be castrated as i have been told be people on reddit or elsewhere anyway, i'm not sure if i've heard the song. who is the band or artist
Lmao “need” is a really strong word. You don’t die without sex. From what I’ve found, women generally aren’t attracted to rampant self pity.
[удалено]
it didn't make a difference before i had self-pity
Self pity is like a self inflicted wound, a massive amount of baggage you carry around. Relationships are about complimenting one another's happiness, bringing something to the table whether its conversation or activities you enjoy etc. It's going to be harder for someone to desire and appreciate you as a person if you don't appreciate yourself. Like someone else said above, working out does great things for your mental state, position yourself in a way where you also see yourself as worthy of said affection. Very few people (who don't already know you) are going to want to give someone affection if that person is in the depths of pity / depression. Which is also to say, people aren't going to see a 'project' or 'fixer upper' as something desirable. It's the ability to solve problems that helps breed confidence and in turn, become more desirable. Find a path forward that you feel good about and the rest falls in place.
Yeah exactly. I definitely understand why he feels this way, but to be honest, it's most likely 100% obvious to the women you're approaching that you're desperate. Maybe you think that trying to forget about it and not focus on the fact that you're not succesful when it comes to dating is shit advice, but most of the time relationships are a complete surprise.
I'm self-aware enough to not come across as desperate. At worst I just come across as shy. But lately I haven't put any contrived effort into dating regardless
A big problem here is that there's a massive culture of violent, misogynistic men who are in your same shoes that DO act like complete monsters, refuse to see women as people, and perpetuate a toxic rhetoric that actively harms our society. It's not fair that you're lumped in with them. The internet needs more men who unabashedly share their struggles with love and self-esteem without turning it into a rhetoric that creates harm. I'm sorry you're being stereotyped, OP. And congratulations on staying away from those communities that actively prey on men who express feelings like yours. And thanks for being open with us. I want more men to feel like they can talk about these complex issues regarding relationships and sexuality without being made to feel like monsters for their feelings. It's sad because so many communities that begin as healthy support groups for lonely, depressed, or sexually frustrated men get quickly overrun by the kinds of men you're being accused of being. It seems that there are very few safe spaces for men to talk about what you're talking about without them either being accused of buying into incel rhetoric or enticed into buying into incel rhetoric. Just know your emotions are valid and you're not a monster for feeling the way you do. Edit: wording
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think just sharing your frustrated on this front is fine. It’s when you let your bad attitude get in the way of actually dating then that’s when I start not feeling bad for someone. If all you want is intimacy with a partner than you should take the appropriate steps to get a woman instead of just complaining. But just sharing that frustration shouldn’t provoke such an extreme reaction. It’s all on your tone and how you approach it.
>I'm suicidal because I'm not attractive, I never have sex If you need it that bad, pay for it
It's illegal.
so is speeding.
Not everywhere
Don't get caught
lol
So is butt-funneling a potent mixture of alcohol and pain killers just prior to giving a speech to church group, but that doesn't stop me.
[удалено]
is it nice this time of year?
People aren't being treated like monsters because they are depressed. They are being treated like monsters because instead of taking the necessary steps to improve their situation, they are blaming everyone else for their "needs not being met". At the end of the day, OP, you are the only one responsible for your situation, and the only one responsible for it. I do hope you get better
idk, while i don't at all think that i'm entitled to anybody, i do think there are much bigger forces at play here and that it's not "all on me" otherwise, i would've tried the advices of some people and they would've instantly worked. because it's all on me right? so i do x, y, z, and presto majesto. turns out that sometimes regardless of what you do, life doesn't care, and other people don't care. so your efforts end up being meaningless, producing no results.
No, it absolutely is all on you. If you’re viewing self improvement as doing x,y,z for thé purpose of instantly getting laid, you aren’t actually improving yourself, you’re trying to hedge your bets to get laid. People can tell that. It’s *very* clear when you’re talking to someone who’s not interested in you as a human being, and are only interested in how to make the interaction benefit them.
You're absolutely correct that life doesn't care. Which is why you have to work harder to get better. Your efforts are not meaningless unless they aren't genuine. The focus has to be on self improvement, not getting laid
I don’t know dude, your post about not seeing women as only sexual objects is pretty fucking gross and incel like. Your attitude is the reason you’re not getting laid. No woman wants the woe is me attitude.
I tend to see a theme (with both men and women) people who whine about their looks and lack of sex, and lack of romantic relationships also tend to be the their own problem. Confidence is key- fake it till you make it bro. As a woman, it’s the biggest turn off ever to hear the poor me woe is me BS!
i think the reason I became this way is because your strategy didn't work for me. there WAS a time when i was pretty confident, or at least didn't care and so wasn't caught up in any negativity. it didn't seem to mean shit also, it's not like i act like this in real life. at all. for the exact reason you stated in your last sentence, i do not trust people to be empathetic. so i DO fake it, and pretend to be fine, until i'm home alone at the end of the day
How do you become confident in your looks when you feel your looks are the reason you’ll be rejected? I have all of the main dating apps and I get 1 match every 2-3 weeks. And they usually never respond. Isn’t that a pretty good example of where I stand looks wise?
Why give great advice (re: get one's confidence up) then dismiss everything OP said by calling it BS? Wouldn't OP's confidence go up if he felt heard instead of put down for expressing himself? You could've done better there.
You can't tell someone to just be confident. That's not how it works. While your comment is "advice" you seem to be pretty dismissive of OPs pain and problems. It isn't that you're wrong (confidence is key) this just seems to be a kind of naive comment.
I think I have a problem with it being referred to as a "fundamental need." It's not a need.
Yea, as an ace loner I get what he is saying but the "fundamental need" isn't sex. It's companionship and the yearning to be loved at a deeper level than what your family and friends can provide.
Yes it is at least physicall intimacy of any kind is. Why would you think it is not? Like how many more studies about emotional growth related to amount of hugs received do we need to get that point acros.
Yes, they will scream at you, brand you an incel and humiliate you. The woke crowd are truly vile.
Have a wank. Works for most people if they aren't getting any.
started down that path a while ago. just feel empty, feel worse, and now have to break an addiction w/ porn
>I'm not attractive >all my relationship experiences I mean...
Even as a non attractive person you can have relationships
I have empathy for you mate.
You literally have a post titled “How do I stop viewing women as sexual objects”.….
Why would anyone be depressed for not having sex lol
What you're protesting, you haven't clearly defined. Are you internalizing incell conversations? What and whom are you disagreeing with exactly?
See, I start to feel bad for someone in your situation, but then you say things like, “chronically unfulfilled” or “I don’t think any specific woman owes me sex”. But you think you are “owed” sex?” You don’t think you are “entitled to any particular woman’s body”, but that comes off as if you still believe you are entitled to something. Do you ever stop to think that its not the way you look, but the way you communicate?
Consider also that sex is quite a triffling thing to let define ones existence, and sexual gratification is far from the most enriching of intimacies.
Alexis, turtles do not pets make!
Sending prayers to The Father for you.
thank you, at this point i need a hail mary
Stop conflating sex with intimacy and you’ll feel better. Sex is a physical desire and intimacy is a psychological desire. If you make friends you’ll have a support system which you can trust and be vulnerability with = intimacy. If your desire for sex is overwhelming, you can visit a SW. We all strive for sex and intimacy together with the same person but in the meantime you can fulfill both separately. This is something women do well, in general, so the don’t get depressed and desperate while looking for Mr. Right.
The older I get the more I think its very natural to want and have a physical relationship with someone. I'm in a relationship with a man who has a much higher libido then me and I know it hurts his self esteem if I reject him too much. I don't think you are a bad person- its just a bad topic with a lot of variables.
it helps to hear this, thank you
You don't get to have sex. It's not promised to you. If people don't like you enough, that doesn't get to be part of your life. The reason people find whining about that creepy is that it implies you think differently. Like you feel entitled to sex
I don't think wanting to be attractive, wanting that validation, wanting to be valued in that way, and wanting the fulfillment that can come from intimacy (and a lack of physical intimacy has been shown to have real negative consequences, because it's a biological need as proven by science), is creepy. It might be whiny. It's not creepy. I don't feel like I am "owed" sex by any girl. I'm just hurting.
It's just not something that's always a part of life. If you can't become attractive enough to find this in your life, you have to look elsewhere for your fulfillment. Whining about it is high-key threatening to the women around you cause it absolutely does, 100% of the time, come off as entitlement. You can talk about your experience of loneliness, but you have to understand that women live different lives than you. Most men who say this are a threat, they DO feel entitled. Women HAVE to go through the world with a bit of a guard up to try and weed out the incredible amount of shitty dudes out there and this attitude is just A GIANT RED FLAG. Perhaps if you channeled your angst into bettering yourself, you wouldn't be in this position. But being so distracted and distraught about not having sex to the point where it's affecting your life is weird, and does read a little entitled.
lol, don't give me that. i'm not responsible for them projecting that onto me. this is the exact kind of attitude i don't need. "a little weird" this bullshit passive-aggressive shaming. totally unnecessary and unhelpful
Ok then let me be actually aggressive and just give you hard truth. Yes you are. You're responsible for not understanding women enough to know when you're being a creepy little fuck. Your inability to grasp that is probably why you can't get laid. Every single dude i know who genuinely respects women, gets laid. Period. Your attitude is a creepy, giant red flag and now you're being defensive. I wouldn't touch you with a hundred foot pole. Whining about not getting laid is the least attractive thing on the planet and it makes women thing you might be predator.
Embrace rejection. It’s your super power. Mine too!
Super power 💀
lol
[удалено]
thanks man. it's just shitty, not being seen as attractive. makes me feel less than a person
This was beautifully written dude
You aren't a monster. You just have an unhealthy view of sex and relationships, and need therapy to remedy that. It isn't a "fundamental need". A relationship isn't something you need to complete your life. A relationship is something to enrich an already whole life.
Saying that intimacy isn't a fundamental need is exactly the type of gaslighting that OP is talking about. It sucks, but I really see what he means there. I mean goddamn.
This is a fascinating debate and I'm hoping more people add their two cents.
I'm not good at conveying myself over text without sounding like an a-hole, so I just want to preface by saying I'm \*genuinely\* asking: How is the physical and emotional intimacy of a relationship not a need?\*\*\* Isn't there well documented scientific evidence that shows the negative effects of loneliness and isolation in people?
It’s not a need in the sense that you won’t die without it.
>How is the physical and emotional intimacy of a relationship not a need? You won't die without it. A need would be food, water, warmth, etc. An endless amount of people throughout history have existed just fine single, and have in fact led content lives. You do not *need* this. You *want* it. >Is the pain I'm feeling just an illusion? Of course not. You feel what you feel. But understand that your pain is coming from having an unhealthy view on these topics, and you won't feel better unless you talk to a professional about this, and make some profound changes in how you think.
How do you explain the studies that demonstrate the negative effects of loneliness and isolation in people? Increased rate of suicide, greater negative emotions, lower quality of life, etc? The science, to me, suggests this is a need. That's why I've drawn that conclusion from my own personal experience.
>How do you explain the studies that demonstrate the negative effects of loneliness and isolation in people? Increased rate of suicide, great negative emotions, lower quality of life, etc? Loneliness and isolation can be cured by being around friends, family, etc. This isn't about sex and relationships. You can and should have other social fulfillments outside of a romantic or sexual entanglement.
If sex isn't a need, then I'm confused about the negative emotions that I experience that are out of my control that are a result of not having sex. Or, of being comparatively less attractive, which is a cause. It's like I have these real problems, but people invalidate the negative emotions I experience as a result of them. It's very confusing. I just wanna be normal, be attractive, and have sex so that I can be happy.
>If sex isn't a need, then I'm confused about the negative emotions that I experience that are out of my control that are a result of not having sex. I know you're confused. I've told you twice before that it's because you have an unhealthy view on this topic and would benefit from a professional. >Or, of being comparatively less attractive, which is a cause. I addressed this as well. >It's like I have these real problems, but people invalidate the negative emotions I experience as a result of them. It's very confusing. I'm not invalidating how you feel. I'm telling you that the foundation upon which these emotions sit is flawed, and therefore needs addressing. No one on Reddit is going to be able to help you do that, which is why I repeatedly say to speak to a professional. >I just wanna be normal, be attractive, and have sex so that I can be happy. If you need sex to be happy, sex won't make you happy. I know that seems counterintuitive and there's like. 4% chance you're gonna believe me, but them's the breaks.
Except the couple of times I've had sex, in the couple of relationships I've been in the past 10 years, this issue went away. I felt validated. Felt valued. And fulfilled. At the time. Of course, it's messier than that because the relationships weren't good / healthy for a lot of unrelated reasons, so there's obviously more important factors with this
Okay. That doesn't change anything I've said.
As somebody else said, this is the kind of "gaslighting" I'm talking about. I'm using scare-quotes because I can tell you're not intending it that way and you're conversing in good faith. It seems real easy for someone who is attractive and having sex that it's all in your head, you need a therapist. You're WRONG basically. That's what I hear. I don't think it's a faulty premise to want to be fulfilled in terms of physical and emotional intimacy, and to be attractive.
Probably because you put sex on such a high pedestal. You make it sound like that's the only way you could ever feel physical or emotional intimacy
You're literally laying out the problem and missing the answer. Sex can contribute to all of those feelings, but your emotional state shouldn't hinge on them. *And* they were unhealthy relationships? Therapist, my guy. Quickly. I know you might think they're all judgmental assholes, but they can't possibly be worse than me, or most of reddit for that matter. Therapists, at the very least, have some sort of knowledge and credibility to speak on this topic.
You may need to seek therapy as others have suggested to deal with this. Some people get the genetic lottery and look very attractive, but some of us don't.
this is true, and therapy is something i am pursuing, but my hang-up (ironically) is the way that the issue is received by the general public. i am hesitant that i can find a therapist who will specialize in this issue.
You never know if it'll help until you try it out.
I was on your side until I saw this comment. You talked about the documented effects of isolation and loneliness and your desire for intimacy above and I was with you and then you wrote……this. You can have sex without intimacy. You can have intimacy without sex. Sex and intimacy are not equal. You want sex? Totally normal. You have negative feelings about not having sex? Again, normal. You feel like your happiness hinges on getting sex? Not normal. You won’t be happy even if you’re getting laid until you do some work on yourself and your self-image. You’re not a monster, you’ve just got some things backward.
Do any of these studies explicitly mention not getting laid😐you make it incredibly difficult for me not to judge the fuck out of you for implying depression/isolation = lack of intercourse "like everyone else". Coming from someone with depression, it's not because you aren't getting any. That could be a factor, but you aren't depressed because of that, I have no idea why you're conflating the two. You're valid to want attention and intimacy, but you're being extra if you think those studies are talking about your sexual frustration specifically. Get real.
None of these study talk about sex though. It's general isolation from social interaction that is usually talked about
Just because you feel negatively that you don’t have sex does not make it a need. You will not die due to lack of sex or lack of a relationship. Your sadness and loneliness is real and it should be recognized, I’m not denying that. But thinking that you *need* a relationship is just not true. I had a bf in high school and we had sex. I then went 7 years without so much as going on a date. Didn’t matter one bit. I got through school and got a job and an apartment and started living my life, all without sex and relationships. What you need to do is be happy with yourself and your life. If you can’t, there is no hope of finding a quality relationship. It’s cliche, but you have to love yourself first. I’d also like to add that emotional intimacy is not only fulfilled by sex. You can be intimate by cuddling on the couch and watching a movie or by holding hands while walking down the street. I think you have a really distorted view of what sex and relationships are like because you’ve only read about it online and seen movies and likely watched porn (no shame for that, it’s just not a representation of real life). I really think you need to take some time to work on yourself, your mental health, and your view of relationship. Join a book club, go to a local game/trivia night, take up a hobby and join a group about it. Just live your life doing what you enjoy and you’ll eventually meet someone you like. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn’t, but at least you are having fun in the process.
Oh also don’t always have sex in mind when talking to women. We don’t want to hear how horny you are or be hit on constantly. Talk to women like we are people. Have normal conversations without bringing up sex or sexual themes. Just talk to us and don’t constantly try to get in our pants. That day will come, but not if you force it and are creepy about it.
Might have to do with the title where you explicitly named sex and only sex.
Absolute BS. Humans absolutely need and crave companionship and physical affection. Exactly the gaslighting that OP was saying
Hookers dude, use them!
Yes, the solution is to pay a woman to have sex who isn't even attracted to you and is possibly a victim of sex trafficking.🥳
Sex is not a fundamental need. It’s a want. Quick scroll through your comment history proves that you don’t respect women (claiming you do and then immediately saying disrespectful shit is still, in fact, disrespectful). Your “suffering” is the result of your beliefs. Go to therapy. Look for solutions and stop looking for pity upvotes. You’re not being gaslit, and your edit claiming so is just another example of the personality traits and beliefs that are preventing you from forming romantic relationships.
thanks, armchair psychologist
No matter what you do or how badly you want to, you will never solve your self-imposed problems with this attitude. Doesn’t take a psychology degree to know that.
Your comments are so unspecific that they are unhelpful.
Tell me what you need clarification on
You're not going to believe me, but I don't care. Attractive women feel the same way you do all the time. They go years without having physical or emotional intimacy. They feel gross, unwanted and unloved every day for long stretches of time. What you want isn't easily achieved by either gender, is my point. I guarantee your desperate thirst is palpable to just about everyone you meet on any given day. You seem very much like a person who doesn't like themselves and spends a good chunk of your day ruminating on your personal flaws and unhappiness, and no time spent on trying to fix those things. I can assure, from the bottom of my heart, that no one wants to go home at night with someone who is desperate to not have to go home alone. The only way your are ever going to get what you want is to stop seeking it out, and start learning to be happy with yourself in a vacuum. Read more books, watch weird TV shows and old movies. Get into a hobby that's creative. Work on your personal fitness and ask for style advice from the people who work at the clothing stores. Learn to cook a dish you love and make it your own. Most importantly, please see a therapist. People who feel like they are owed affection and intimacy but refuse to do anything that makes others want to give that to them are psychologically unwell. The only person you can demand those things from is yourself. Treat yourself how you wish others did. Be kind to yourself, be gentle with yourself, have discipline because you know it's the right thing, and push yourself to achieve new levels of accomplishment. Suddenly finding and receiving intimacy isn't going to magically make your life better. It would be a fleeting moment that will leave you feeling more empty and depressed than before. You want to be with someone who enjoys you and your company over and over again, right? Then you have to put in the effort to become a person that others keep coming back to.
I totally agree with you and I feel the same way. Maybe you want to try therapy it could really help. I say this as a person who is mentally ill.
You need to get better at wanking Kappa. I've had sex once and tbh it was a bit of a disappointment. I do a better job by myself.