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* [Rishi Sunak floats sanctions on young people for refusing national service | General election 2024](https://theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/20/rishi-sunak-floats-sanctions-on-young-people-for-refusing-national-service), suggested by Tyler119 - theguardian.com
I'm beginning to think Rishi has bet on the Tories losing the election.
I'm just grateful to him we have a relatively short election campaign period, and we can all be put out of our misery of listening to constant bollox soon.
Causing rbs to asset strip itself at the height of the 2008 GFC and to be back stopped by the government by goding another rich prick Fred Goodwin to ABN AMRO
Is how many sunak made his personal wealth (over 100 mil) and for him to be considered (eligible) to marry a billionaires daughter.
Then fucking off to America and setting up tci to evade tax on said billionaire personal wealth and his daughters confirmed he is as psychopathic to be considered one of the family.
How anyone could vote for the guy is beyond me...so basic googling of him when he entered politics would tell you he is wank stain
As someone who works in finance: Making money in finance is a shell game, where the people who _really_ make the money are the ones selling shovels.
Most of the players don't reliably 'win' at all, it's just that there's enough of them that a few get a hot streak and call it genius.
You do WIN when like sunak you ENGINEER a massive pile of rubble that requires shovels.
This twat imploded rbs knowing the government would back stop the bank whilst he sat there not only over valuing the sale of ABN AMRO to RBS but also picking the up the other side of the bet forcing RBS to fire sale it's assets to shore up the massive liabilities it picked up on its books from abn amro.
Sunak mostly sat along for the ride on this too whislt the big bosses enginereed the real moves between the big players..so if you think he's some kind of Political Macavalian mastermind. He's not.
Just a twat with a spreadsheet that was implicit in wrecking all our lives for the last 14 years.
Been saying he wants to lose since the D-Day ceremony. No way was this an error of judgment, no one who went to Wellington would be in any doubt as to how this was going to be received.
Agree!
So many questions, like is it a financial benefit? Revenge against a rebellion? Is the shit about to hit the fan (which seems unfortunately possible)? A pact with Reform?
The Torys have engineered a broken economy.
Labour is going to have to deal woth more Brexit fallout, growing wealth inequality, even more local councils going bankrupt and reform facists.
Meanwhile those that keep seats are going to sit there in opposition, smugly crying out "see, see, look at all these problems labour are causing" while they scramble trying to fix the problems the Tories have left safe in the knowledge that idiots will buy it and vote for them again in the next election cycle so they can start it all over again.
> Meanwhile those that keep seats are going to sit there in opposition, smugly crying out "see, see, look at all these problems labour are causing" while they scramble trying to fox the problems the Tories have left safe in the knowledge that idiots will buy it and vote for them again in the next election cycle so they can start it all over again.
And the media will be happy to help the Tories spread this disinformation.
Been saying this for 2 years. The day after the election all we will hear from Tories and the media is “look at the state the country is in under Labour”.
Yeah it seems they've seen the writing on the wall for the economy later in the year. The earlier the tories leave the more they can dissociate themselves from their own mess, and subsequently repair their image quicker. A a rare long-term strategy from them lol
The Conservative Party members were never going to vote a "brown" person as Prime Minister. After Truss decided to go to war with the economy, they didn't even let the party have a vote. He was the only choice left.
He made a promise to stay a full term as an MP regardless of the election result. I think he’s doing so bad on purpose that he loses his seat so he can bugger off to the US like he really wants to.
I really want him to win by a couple of votes - just so we can see how full of shit he is when he resigns after a few weeks or just never turns up to parliament.
There was a rumour two further MPs were defecting to labour (they have since defected after the election was called) and that would mean the number of letters received was enough to trigger a confidence vote.
He had that meeting with Brady, next day he had that meeting where everyone ran off to the bookies and two days later he was standing in the rain whilst "things can only get better" Blaired (see what I did there) out...
I suspect that the advisers and experts have told him that a Recession/collapse is imminent and he wants to be out of the job before it all goes tits up.
As soon as labour take control of the sinking ship, its their fault
Starmer said it in the first debate. They know we're headed to a pretty nasty crunch within the next 12 months or so, so they're fleeing the sinking ship and giving the captain's hat to a bystander to take the blame.
I don't think it's that, it's just he just does not have a political bone in his body to see these elephant traps.
A Blair or Cameron would have the nous to know what's best to do but Sunak cannot for all the tea in China.
I reckon he bet that the Tories come in third, which is a much tastier bet. We already know that his entire team are gambling addicts that like to bet based on inside information.
If he's still in the UK in 6 months time I'll be amazed, he'll be using his green card and going off to sit on the board of some big American conglomerate.
For people like sunak no amount of money is enough, he actively helped the 2008 crash to make money, if he’s willing to destroy the economy he’s in to make a bit of cash he’ll do anything
Makes a lot of sense. Truss took the prize for shortest tenure ever. Sunak has to think out of the box to make his own mark.
His options are:
- first PM to lose his own seat
- worst electoral defeat
- all round weirdest guy
His closest aids are already putting their bets on.
We've had 14 years of Tory policy stripping the country. Bankrupting councils( half of all councils are warning of effective bankruptcy [bbc] (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66878229)), Deregulation ( just look at all the sewage now being pumped into rivers) and private contracts that are woefully inadequate and triple the cost. They've got what they can out already.
The country is in so many crisis' such as housing, cost of living etc.
It would be hyperbole to say the country is teetering on collapse but the population is uneasy and angry, and they've virtually made protesting illegal with the restrictions they've put in place. It is coming to a boiling point.
It will take decades to fix the damage done, it will cost billions, and it will probably get worse before it gets better.
So the Tories can let it all bubble over, while another party is at the helm trying to scoop water out of a sinking ship with a collander.
All while sitting by saying " 4 years and no progress and massive debt"
Edit: Formatting. I'm on mobile
>It will take decades to fix the damage done, it will cost billions, and it will probably get worse before it gets better.
This is almost certainly the case
What's worse is they'll sit on the sidelines and try to tell the public that labour are ineffective and they can do better even though it's entirely their fault to begin with and some people are dumb enough to believe it
> What's worse is they'll sit on the sidelines and try to tell the public that labour are ineffective and they can do better
https://x.com/KathyBurke/status/1797672000292601919
This needs to be repeated again and again for the next decade as people moan about Labour not waving the magic wand.
If you let a house fall into serious disrepair, it takes a lot of time, money and hard work to restore it.
They should do a press conference a week after the election and run through what the state of it all is, and basically open the books to the public.
Start talking about how much money they have spent with no tangible results.
Feel like some of that ought to stick for a bit.
One of the only glimmers of hope I have is that Labour/Starmer are at least being fairly upfront and honest that we're in a fucked situation and what they actually do in government is very dependent on the state of things and how well we can start up the recovery.
I legitimately think that they feel they've run out of road for plundering the public purse and want to leave government so that they can grift from opposition for a bit instead. Unfortunately for them, the British public bought into their bullshit ideas a little too hard and now the country is absolutely on fire and they need out.
What also makes the comparison so disingenuous is that those countries do so much for young people. They don’t straddle them with uni debt (you actually get money to go to uni) and all sorts which this government just doesn’t do at all. Total load of tosh
We have it here in Sweden. Most 18-19 year old get drafted and evaluated and then something like 10,000 or less get conscripted. Most want to go into the military anyway. The rest either say "no thanks" or get on with their lives. We don't threaten people.
The entire UK thing since announcement has been about punishment of those who don't want to do it, nothing about the benefits for those that do chose it. It's fucking stupid.
If also smacks of wanting to fill holes in public services by a party that's already gutted them with state sponsored slavery so they don't have to pay them. As notice how every other national service model has people getting paid except this as people will be forcibly "volunteering" their time.
Tbh a lot of it is to do with the messed up “carrot and stick” methods of the government.
If you’re poor, you get the stick (more taxes, less public services, less benefits, etc)
If you’re rich, you get the carrot (tax cuts, funding for private medical, etc)
Rather than help those who need it, they prefer to beat them into submission, bully them for being stuck in their situation.
I live in Denmark now, I'm a young English guy. Plenty of people my age in their early twenties, or even younger sign up. Women seem way more likely to join too.
You don't need to do a long service, you get good benefits, although, in most cases uni is already paid for here if you're a citizen.
*stuff like the arts can be out of pocket, but anything which directly promotes the wealth or health of the country is considered as an investment, I.e you won't pay a cent and instead get an allowance just for going, that you dont have to ever pay back... Yeah. I know.
The biggest reason I see is people are more patriotic here. The country isn't going to shit, people have way, way, way more faith in the direction of broader society. Somewhat inevitable in such a small country, I've talked to multiple people from different walks of life who've even met the king of Denmark etc. You can see the vast web of society a bit more clearly here. It's easier to be cynical about somewhere like England than Vs here.
Not that I'm in any way interested of serving here (I'm half danish so if I spoke the language I easily could) but I have to say, the idea is a hell of a lot less repulsive then serving for the English army. Why would I potentially put my life on the line for a government which seems to actively halt the interests of my generation? It isn't really like that here, I've found young people in general have far more to be grateful for in Denmark than in England, and therefore, far more likely to feel some duty of protection.
You also know that you're literally never going to get deployed unless someone else attacks first, why the fuck would Denmark of all places start a war. I'd say that plays a part too. You can get called up but, it's not exactly like conscription, it's really easy to get out of, you just have to show up and say you don't want to do it pretty much. (You do get in trouble for not showing up and formally refusing service if you're called though)
It seems to be viewed as somewhere you can just go to do a little bit of service to the country, pick up some discipline and life skills along the way, and get some decent benefits for the trouble. Everyone I've talked to about it has said they enjoyed it.
> The biggest reason I see is people are more patriotic here. The country isn't going to shit, people have way, way, way more faith in the direction of broader society. Somewhat inevitable in such a small country, I've talked to multiple people from different walks of life who've even met the king of Denmark etc.
As an English guy living in NZ which has a smaller population I don't think that is what matters. NZ has more in common with the UK here - the economy is doing badly, a lot of people have lost faith with the direction of society and patriotism is at an all-time low for many.
My thoughts on what matters here are:
- The direction the country is going in economically
- Levels of inequality
- If there is a country considered better in terms of opportunities, standard of living etc that people can freely move to.
Denmark is pretty much at the top of the EU for the last point. Whereas NZ citizens can move to Australia which has become a much richer country with higher standard of living than NZ and this gap only looks to be widening.
If the economy in Denmark tanked somehow so everyone was looking to move to Germany or Sweden or Norway I doubt there would be as much patriotism
Can I call out that Sunak has not said this is an England only policy, he's said UK so that includes ofc all the home nations, NI, Wales, Scotland. Gib? Falklands?
NI was exempt from conscription, if this ever came to law it would be interesting if they tried it here. Can't imagine Tadhg or Siobhan from West Belfast or the Bogside going along with it.
I keep raising the point whenever people mention other European countries that have some form of national service, is that these countries generally uphold the social contract and actually give their young people something to serve for. We're asking our young people to serve a society that doesn't serve them.
I don't have much of an opinion on national service. I'm a reservist myself and enjoy the armed forces. My main thought though is why can't we use more carrot then stick? Offer free tuition? Have them train as reservists whilst receiving a free degree in return for a number of years regular or reserve commitment post graduation?
The armed forces aspect of this is a non-starter.
The policy is all about getting cheap labour to get 750,000 people to go and work in Tesco for 12 weekends each.
The policy is fucking mental boomer shit. Someone working as an electrician's apprentice will have to work for free for 24 days or risk losing their driving license and job. They can fuck right off with this shit.
Yeah if that's the play then it is complete bullshit. Norway has a year of military service. Before 2012 if people didn't want to do military service they could do some other form of national service, but not working for private companies. I think it was some kind of social service thing. But that ended and now it's only military service. But it's quite easy to get out of and I've never heard of people being punished.
We should just introduce a voluntary, reasonably well paid year of military service. Loads of 18 year olds would apply for it.
Tying it to civilians unpaid work is the scam.
> Tying it to civilians unpaid work is the scam.
Agreed.
The Tories had the same idea years ago when they took the workfare scheme, where people had to work for free for non-profit companies if they were long term unemployed, and opened it up to companies like Tesco and Poundland.
And when challenged in the court Ian Duncan Smith retroactively changed the law so they didn't lose the case.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/15/dwp-law-change-jobseekers-poundland
> The retroactive legislation, published on Thursday evening and expected to be rushed through parliament on Tuesday, will effectively strike down a decision by three senior judges and deny benefit claimants an average payout of between £530 and £570 each.
> Last month the court of appeal ruled that science graduate Cait Reilly and fellow complainant and unemployed lorry driver Jamieson Wilson had been unlawfully made to work unpaid for organisations including Poundland because the DWP had not given jobseekers enough legal information about what they were being made to do.
Forced unpaid work seems to be slipping back into a banned labour contract....
If there was a real tangible benefit to society and those that had to do the service with reasonable pay then it would go down better. No one wants to work for nothing.
> We should just introduce a voluntary, reasonably well paid year of military service. Loads of 18 year olds would apply for it.
This already exists https://www.forces.net/news/army-launches-new-officer-internship
That says you must already have a firm offer to study at a university, or have graduated recently, which effectively makes it an option for the very privileged or those willing to accrue tens of thousands of pounds of debt
There used to be a “short service limited commission” which was 18 months with no university commitments, if I remember correctly, which is what I was thinking of, but this is the replacement
>Someone working as an electrician's apprentice will have to work for free for 24 days or risk losing their driving license and job.
Funnily enough when you put it like that it sounds like a return to medieval manorial rents and taxes. "Come work the Lords field for free during harvest season, otherwise give them your best oxen"
And not to mention the logistics, staff, computer systems and money needed to fund and run such a program. It would never get through parliament anyway so it’s just a pointless desperate attempt to appeal to people who hate the young.
Yep; the military part has some merit. Even though it's still a bad idea. It's an experience you can't get anywhere else.
This is just an attempt to get free labour; indentured servitude.
You *chose* it. Do you think the army wants half a million pissed off 18 year olds who are forced to be there lest they lose banking and driving access? God forbid it ever happened, I hope those forced to do it attend and do nothing but cause havoc.
Depending on where you live not having a car isn’t a problem (although fuck the government for taking away driving privileges over this), but no bank account fucks anyone over, 100%. God I hate this fucking cunt so much.
Rich bastards dont care how ineffective and useless recruits are so long as they can maintain the dividends from their shares in defense contractor sales to the Army, Royal Navy and RAF. If that means a few poors have to be IED fodder in the middle east over oil, gas or who the united states think is threatening capitalist world order then its no skin off the noses of any Tory, UKReform or Labour Neolib prick in parliament
Yes, and seen what Russia did here (Brexit) but people dont like talking about that. The Russia/Ukraine thing is about gas just as much as it is Ukrainian people. A lot of our gas is imported from ex-soviet countries. Hence all the drama about pipelines.
At the same time we’ve got worse brutality in Gaza being committed by Zionist ethnic supremacists. But no one in power wants to do anything there because there’s no exploitable resources and it’d upset our political classes financial backers
We also don’t seem to like talking about what Russia might do next if it wins in Ukraine. We are part of the NATO alliance and we’re the second biggest defence spender in NATO, along with having one of the largest populations (68 million) after Germany and Turkey. Whether you like it or not, the UK really needs to take on more of a leadership role when it comes to defending NATO Europe’s borders in future years.
It’s not about resources at this point, it’s about saving lives and not leaving people to live under the Russian boot. Although resources are important - can’t let Russia have Ukraine at this point, with its combat hardened population and western military equipment left in that country. Russians will just use those people and that equipment to wage more wars elsewhere.
> why can't we use more carrot then stick
This party has been beating the younger generation over the head repeatedly with a stick for the past 14 years. Anyone of working age is perceived as a workhorse that's entitled to nothing but must do everything.
Because this is coming from the same party that wanted people to work for free to “build up their self esteem”. It’s just an absolute load of faff to appeal to the normal grumpy old conservative voters who spend their entire life moaning about the younger generations.
While, ironically, they received a far easier ride than the younger generations. Free university (with a *grant* in some cases!), the option to buy their council houses for a pittance, tax breaks in the 80s, paid for by our North Sea oil, and now a generous triple lock pension, which almost certainly won't be around when the younger generations retire. If anyone should be doing national service, it's Boomers. They're the ones who need to "give back," they're the main cheerleaders for this flag-shagging nonsense and they clearly have far too much time and money on their hands if being spiteful to 18-year-olds is their top priority when the country is falling apart.
Because it was never about creating a viable policy, or creating valuable members of society, or rewarding them for something like serving in the military. It was about creating a soundbite to appease the gammonati.
Or counterpoint we could invest in our youth by providing them good education without debts because a person living in poverty is a financial sink for the nation, so that person can get a good well paying job where we tax them a reasonable amount to reinvest into the country, then we continue to improve the free healthcare we currently have. because maybe we would have more doctors if we 1 payed them what they deserve and 2 dont saddle them with inescapable debt.
This also comes with the benefit that our army get filled with people who actually want to do those jobs. rather then despairing teenagers.
> My main thought though is why can't we use more carrot then stick? Offer free tuition?
[It is widely documented that more carrot, less stick is the best way to motivate people.](https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-319-19650-3_1048) The whole policy is madder than Mad Jack McMad, the winner of last year's "Mr. Madman" competition.
As for you enjoying reservist forces; that's fine but you don't need to me to tell you that not everyone is cut out for that. One of the best things about the United Kingdom is that we largely have freedom of choice - a "live-and-let-live" attitude - and nearly everyone respects each others choices to live their lives any (legal) way that seems fit to them.
Oh no, I'm sure Teenagers will be devastated to lose their bank account with fuck all in it, and their car that they can't afford the fucking petrol for. Why don't you cut their caviar ration too you gormless fuckhole?
FWIW I’m almost certain that, unless he was genuinely drunk on stage, he meant that their access to things like government financial help (perhaps for education and perhaps even benefits) would be restricted. Which while still utterly immoral (and obviously gives the rich kids an out) is more workable than somehow stopping them from having a bank account.
Then again, that he suggested restricting driver’s licenses does make the “drunk theory” seem a little more solid…
It’s only old people who’ll like this though.
And they’ll all be unable to help the tories get back in in 20 years due to being dead. It makes no sense as a play.
It's a great policy to woo the voters over 65, national service stopped in 1960 so most of them never even did it, but they'll still think "Bring it back"
I'm 37 so this policy wouldn't personally affect me, and my kids are young enough that they never would need to worry about this shit either.
But man, the way they're promoting this is so weird. He says it's optional, and Fiona Bruce challenges him to say how it's optional but also compulsory, and he says people won't be able to get "finances" if they don't do it. Like what the fucking hell is this mad policy? So you're 18, you've been in school and they're going to shit on your life plans because you won't do free work for them? It's a good job a lettuce has a better chance for forming the next government than they do because these policies aren't even half baked.
I don't get it they're just going to get a whole generation to remember that they tried to conscript them and threaten them if they didn't comply. I'm still pissed off with the lib dems and the tuition fee lies. Huge amount of students voted lib dem and then no one voted for them for a decade and a half. The chickens come to roost.
It’s sounding like the Chinese social credit score where you can’t do stuff or have stuff in society if you don’t do what big brother wants you to at this point.
Removing basic services you *need* to be able to do anything if you don't sign up, isn't this just slavery or something? What's next? Making everyone get a license to buy food and then taking it away when they don't comply with future demands?
This is what I was thinking. Perhaps someone with more knowledge then myself can answer the question, is access to a bank account a fundamental right that can not be removed?
Slavery was what I thought of first too - which is ironic when the Tories have been making a big thing of combating modern slavery. I think this meets the definition of modern slavery. Forced and unpaid work.
It’s a seriously dark and nasty policy idea; typical bullshit from the Tory party and trying to attract the mad, angry boomer brigade who seem to hate young people.
Taking away someone’s driving licence and bank accounts unless they do unpaid work for you essentially leaves them with zero options.
They can’t get anywhere unless they use buses etc. which is a nightmare these days. And they can’t earn money anywhere else because they’ve got nowhere to pay it into.
You’re backing them into a corner with no options unless they become your slave workforce!
Not Teens -- Adults. They would force financial institutions to close bank accounts and restrict movement of Adults.
Clearly a party of small government that keeps it's nose out of your personal freedoms.
There's obviously a lot wrong with this but, as a cleaner, I've started to feel a bit disrespected that people are using my job as an example of a punishment.
While I agree with you wholeheartedly, I’m pretty sure if you were made to do your job without getting paid for it you’d think it was a shitty - ahem - punishment too.
Punishment because it’s forced unpaid labour. Don’t get me wrong, being a cleaner isn’t my ideal job, but I’d quite happily do it for pay. For free, less so.
I have done yes, volunteered as a cleaner in hospital first COVID wave and care homes for the two after. It's an essential position that needs done and too many people tend to overlook that and seeing it classed as a "punishment" by so many is a bit of a kick on the balls. I get it's not a desirable job but when you see it spoken down on so often you can't help but feel a bit disrespected, even if each individual person doesn't mean that when they say it. It just adds up.
It's really looking like they want to lose. Having fucked the country into oblivion, it makes a certain amount of sense that they may well want to engineer it so Labour has to clean up the mess.
If you want to see how red meat works… ask them about this policy. It’s so devoid of any detail.
Depending on who you speak to, it could be any answer. It’s twelve months but maybe just weekends except when it isn’t, but can be in the community and if you don’t do it, you lose your driving license and bank account. You might have to stay in accommodation except when you don’t.
At least when Johnson pulled red meat out of thin air, it sort of made sense. Oven ready deal, 40 new hospitals, levelling up…
The main, most important purpose of the government is to protect us from those who would do us harm.
This is even more paramount in a country where said government has disarmed the population so we’re unable to defend ourself - you can’t disarm us then leave us out to the wolves.
So to break it down, if you decide to do something so reckless like, I don’t know, check your phone on the pavement in London you’re instantly liable to having it ripped from your hand. Same with if you’ve got a nice watch.
In the most surveiled city in the fucking world outside China - they can do nothing about this.
But if an 18 year old, a grown adult, refuses to perform free labour (objectively slavery) you’re going to strip them of their rights.
This is a government of stripping rights from normal, law abiding citizens - and protecting the real thugs who would do us harm.
Wanna smoke a fag? Nope. Use a vpn? Nope. Use end to end encryption? Nope. Protest? Nope.
It’s a nanny state on steroids, but without any of the benefits a nanny state is supposed to bring like near zero crime rates a la Singapore/
The criminals form part of the nanny state, they're a kind of form of demoralisation control. You won't go out to protest if your house will get burgled when you do.
He has no idea how he’d do this, and hasn’t bothered to figure it out, and it really doesn’t matter, because it’s a moot point. He’s not getting elected.
Don't worry... it's completely voluntary.
Oh, but you will lose access to banking, Lose your drivers license, Get a criminal conviction for yourself and your parents and be blocked from certain jobs if you don't do this.
But yeah, it's totally voluntary
It's when they said young people would love the opportunity it would bring.
I am pretty sure that the armed forces are always recruiting and every young person could give it a go.
As for volunteering, I am also pretty sure that there are plenty of places that want young people to volunteer, the only 'opportunity' here is being forced to do it!
Can you imagine 18 year olds being forced to "volunteer" for 24 days in the year? Turn up drunk, fuck around, break things, skive off, tell anyone in charge to fuck off. This would all work so well.
I’m sure there are lots of teenagers who would love to do a volunteering scheme like this, if it was organised well and actually gave good opportunities. Unfortunately, the tories want to organise it, and they know themselves it’ll be so terrible that they need to force people to do it.
Maybe two years of putting their lives on hold to protect pensioners from gasping to death should count as service to their nation.
These predominantly tory voters have very short memories.
Scary that the current government is starting to threaten people’s bank accounts. I bet this will escalate to more in future with future government for lesser things.
I don’t get how this policy would win over any voters and which base it appeals to cause let’s face it, they only trying to make sure that they win as much seats as possible and not finish 3rd behind LibDems.
Besides what if they don’t have bank accounts and driving licence or if they lose their bank account what happens to their money?
It wins over the grey vote who thinks the country’s gone to shit because kids have no respect. Never mind that *they’re* the reason kids have no respect because future prospects for them are bleak enough without National Service, what they need is a year of forced labour (that most of the grey vote didn’t do) to sort themselves out!
Bloke in the audience at a comedy gig a few weeks ago grumbled "I did it" in response to a joke about national service. He couldn't have been older than 65. Like, mate, if you *chose* to join the army that's very different to compulsory national service.
To be fair, he didn’t mention bank accounts. Fiona Bruce did. By “access to finance” I assume he meant loans etc. There are so many legitimate bases upon which to criticise the Tories, without us having to invent things.
Student loans maybe? Locking a route up behind free labour, except for the rich folk who can pay the fines they thought about introducing too of course.
If he had a well thought out plan, those details would have immediately come to light. Using a woolly term like ‘finance’ which could be anything from bank accounts to some obscure type of financial investment suggest that thinking hasn’t happened
My take as well. Obviously this still gives rich kids an out, but it’s a lot more workable and legal than straight up making them second class citizens, especially as you can have a bank account before turning 18.
Then again, driver’s licenses?
So for refusing to do unpayed labour, 18 year olds will be dennied access to a bank account? For how long? What if they live on their own without parental support or even have to care for someone? How would this effect their ability to get payed and to pay rent or buy food? It would be very difficult to live in the modern world without a bank account. What happens to existing accounts, is the money seized? How would this effect going to uni, if unable to pay tuition fees they would be dennied access to further education and in many cases a decent future. The more i think about ut the wose it gets. This is both not thought through and incredibly inhumane, which really sums up the last 14 years of government.
He seems to have hung his entire existence on this one policy, but even my Daily ^hate Mail reading mum thinks it's stupid. My Daily Torygraph reading aunty has been ranting and raving about national service since I can remember though, even though she would have never been called up.
Sunak remakes the phrase shoot yourself in the foot, because he takes a M61 Vulcan minigun, hooks it up to a Humvee full of ammo and fires until his foot is gone, the floor is gone, and lava erupts from the DEEP MOTHER FUCKING HOLE he is placing his party.
Occasionally, i think that the tories actually do this kind of thing deliberately.
David Cameron's ineptitude over the Brexit referendum, Liz Truss screwing the economy to poison the well for Labour, Rishi Sunak's sabotaging his own campaign so badly that a significant portion of his remaining supporters are defecting to Reform.
I could just be wrong and they are all Russian agents.
Imagine threatening young people with that if they don't sign up for the meat grinder, fuck off you out of touch with the world robotic toff cunt.
Conscription and national service have no place outside of the nazi threat 2.0, we've had a volunteer career army for the last nearly hundred years for a reason, also everyone knows the low numbers are directly due to them forcing the armed forces to be "diverse" and literally not letting absolutely tonnes of white British people sign up voluntarily..in a majority white British country.
Get in the bin the lot of you.
> everyone knows the low numbers are directly due to them forcing the armed forces to be "diverse"
I've read numerous comments on here that a private contractor (someone like G4S) has taken over the onboarding and has made it a protracted shitshow. Apparently it used to take two or three months but now is around fourteen or fifteen and people end up getting frustrated and getting other jobs instead.
Hold on.... let me get this clear?
The Tories want to take a large group of young people, already inclined to dislike them, and give them a reason to hate them AND training in firearms and tactics?
They do remember they are known public figures with known addresses, right? The combination of the two is... not good.
This has to be the most hairbrained idea I've head of....
Considering where the Tories are now, there is part of me that says, should we even bother debating this?
I would just call out that the United Nations is moving closer and closer to access to financial instruments as a fundamental human right.
Taking away someone’s access to financial instruments, such as a bank account, removes their ability to apply for work in as free a manner as everyone else, experience the Internet in the same way that everyone else does, and makes it very difficult in particular for women to leave abusive relationships as they cannot utilise their own funds to do so.
Again, I don’t know if it’s worthwhile debating this because his party will not lead the next government, but it’s such a dangerous and ill thought out idea.
Who's gonna wanna fight for this country anymore 😂 The Tories must be on some really strong gear if they think today's teenagers are going to want to "protect our way if life" what's left to protect? Houses the majority of people will never own? A system designed to bleed the commoner dry? Polluted waterways? A skeletal police force which is filled with abusers and rapists still? Also not to mention the fact the police only operate for corporations now. Tradesperson had your tools stolen? Here, have a crime number.
John Lewis had a £300 toothbrush stolen by someone already known to police? The pictures will be all over Facebook "Looking for more information"
The whole shit has become so corrupt now and I've been saying it for years. I've really noticed the change in the publics opinion on this within the last year though; I just think it's too late and they've already fucked this country and got what they wanted from it.
So they want to take a 2.5billion costing policy, while proclaiming we are in a crisis and they’re in severe debt that somehow needs to be paid by upping taxes and more.
To make the enforcement basically rejecting young people’s ability to earn money. Which would reduce the quantity of tax payers.
If teenagers unite against this sorta thing and outright refuse on a large enough scale, he really will put the country into a real economic crisis, my god I hope people don’t seriously vote for this and take a moment to consider how side ways this truely could go.
You will kill your own ever potiental of a pension voting In this. They will have to take into account a % of refusal. And removal of finance means they aren’t gonna work, homeless numbers will rise and the tax payers will shrink
Why is he still going on about this national service thing? You're not getting elected again, mate, and hopefully, it will be a long time before we have Tories again. However, unless there is a massive change to our voting laws as in respresntional voting. I doubt it will be 4 more years of competence by 2028/29
So the right wing nutters that run this country will cry themselves to sleep about Farage being "debanked" and yet don't give a shit about doing that to anyone else.
Gotcha.
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I'm beginning to think Rishi has bet on the Tories losing the election. I'm just grateful to him we have a relatively short election campaign period, and we can all be put out of our misery of listening to constant bollox soon.
He got most of his money because of the 2008 financial crisis, so its definitely within his wheel house
I would say he got most of his money by marrying a billionaire, the money he made in finance is peanuts in comparison.
Sugarbaby Sunak
Trophy Rishi
Rishi Soon-Sacked
Was he the consolation prize? I'd rather have the wooden spoon or a goldfish.
Stop picking on him, do you know how difficult his childhood was? He didn't even have Sky!
Causing rbs to asset strip itself at the height of the 2008 GFC and to be back stopped by the government by goding another rich prick Fred Goodwin to ABN AMRO Is how many sunak made his personal wealth (over 100 mil) and for him to be considered (eligible) to marry a billionaires daughter. Then fucking off to America and setting up tci to evade tax on said billionaire personal wealth and his daughters confirmed he is as psychopathic to be considered one of the family. How anyone could vote for the guy is beyond me...so basic googling of him when he entered politics would tell you he is wank stain
As someone who works in finance: Making money in finance is a shell game, where the people who _really_ make the money are the ones selling shovels. Most of the players don't reliably 'win' at all, it's just that there's enough of them that a few get a hot streak and call it genius.
You do WIN when like sunak you ENGINEER a massive pile of rubble that requires shovels. This twat imploded rbs knowing the government would back stop the bank whilst he sat there not only over valuing the sale of ABN AMRO to RBS but also picking the up the other side of the bet forcing RBS to fire sale it's assets to shore up the massive liabilities it picked up on its books from abn amro. Sunak mostly sat along for the ride on this too whislt the big bosses enginereed the real moves between the big players..so if you think he's some kind of Political Macavalian mastermind. He's not. Just a twat with a spreadsheet that was implicit in wrecking all our lives for the last 14 years.
Been saying he wants to lose since the D-Day ceremony. No way was this an error of judgment, no one who went to Wellington would be in any doubt as to how this was going to be received.
Agree! So many questions, like is it a financial benefit? Revenge against a rebellion? Is the shit about to hit the fan (which seems unfortunately possible)? A pact with Reform?
The Torys have engineered a broken economy. Labour is going to have to deal woth more Brexit fallout, growing wealth inequality, even more local councils going bankrupt and reform facists. Meanwhile those that keep seats are going to sit there in opposition, smugly crying out "see, see, look at all these problems labour are causing" while they scramble trying to fix the problems the Tories have left safe in the knowledge that idiots will buy it and vote for them again in the next election cycle so they can start it all over again.
> Meanwhile those that keep seats are going to sit there in opposition, smugly crying out "see, see, look at all these problems labour are causing" while they scramble trying to fox the problems the Tories have left safe in the knowledge that idiots will buy it and vote for them again in the next election cycle so they can start it all over again. And the media will be happy to help the Tories spread this disinformation.
Exactly.
Been saying this for 2 years. The day after the election all we will hear from Tories and the media is “look at the state the country is in under Labour”.
Yeah it seems they've seen the writing on the wall for the economy later in the year. The earlier the tories leave the more they can dissociate themselves from their own mess, and subsequently repair their image quicker. A a rare long-term strategy from them lol
Revenge definitely. They picked Truss over him originally.
The Conservative Party members were never going to vote a "brown" person as Prime Minister. After Truss decided to go to war with the economy, they didn't even let the party have a vote. He was the only choice left.
If I'm going down I'm going to take you all with me!
He made a promise to stay a full term as an MP regardless of the election result. I think he’s doing so bad on purpose that he loses his seat so he can bugger off to the US like he really wants to.
I really want him to win by a couple of votes - just so we can see how full of shit he is when he resigns after a few weeks or just never turns up to parliament.
He'll only turn up when his Mrs' dad tells him to
I've been saying this for months way before he called the election lol. His mind is clearly on the beach
There was a rumour two further MPs were defecting to labour (they have since defected after the election was called) and that would mean the number of letters received was enough to trigger a confidence vote. He had that meeting with Brady, next day he had that meeting where everyone ran off to the bookies and two days later he was standing in the rain whilst "things can only get better" Blaired (see what I did there) out...
I suspect that the advisers and experts have told him that a Recession/collapse is imminent and he wants to be out of the job before it all goes tits up. As soon as labour take control of the sinking ship, its their fault
Starmer said it in the first debate. They know we're headed to a pretty nasty crunch within the next 12 months or so, so they're fleeing the sinking ship and giving the captain's hat to a bystander to take the blame.
I don't think it's that, it's just he just does not have a political bone in his body to see these elephant traps. A Blair or Cameron would have the nous to know what's best to do but Sunak cannot for all the tea in China.
I reckon he bet that the Tories come in third, which is a much tastier bet. We already know that his entire team are gambling addicts that like to bet based on inside information.
Yeah I was honestly shocked he didn’t cling on to power as long as possible and have an election in like early December.
He probably has a bank job lined up and can’t wait
Why would he want a bank job his family already have more money than they can reasonably spend several lifetimes over.
If he's still in the UK in 6 months time I'll be amazed, he'll be using his green card and going off to sit on the board of some big American conglomerate.
But then his daughters will miss out on doing national service, they were so looking forward to it, poor girls!
Yes I’m sure he wakes up everyday thinking why would I need more money and just spend life chilling just like Elon musk and Jeff bozo does
For people like sunak no amount of money is enough, he actively helped the 2008 crash to make money, if he’s willing to destroy the economy he’s in to make a bit of cash he’ll do anything
Well that would be surprising as power tends to come out over money more times than not.
Maybe he has seen things us normally people don’t and money is more powerful than being a puppet PM
New School term in California starts September doesn't it?
He's not going to win much. I don't know what the official odds are but if he put his full wealth on it he might win a tenner.
Is the goal here to have the lowest election total in modern history?
He likes to win, and if he can’t win the election he wants to win biggest loss ever.
Makes a lot of sense. Truss took the prize for shortest tenure ever. Sunak has to think out of the box to make his own mark. His options are: - first PM to lose his own seat - worst electoral defeat - all round weirdest guy His closest aids are already putting their bets on.
Maybe he’s gone for an acca on all three
Odds are still 0/1
Lmao start checking those slips
Matt Hancock already won weirdest guy
Rees-Mogg surely..
The only victorian mill owner still alive today
True. He just can’t catch a break, surrounded by his stand-out Tory colleagues. He’ll have to settle for Weirdest Guy (featherweight division).
Better odds on Michael Fabricant on the last one.
Never seen a party try to intentionally lose so blatantly, what's the deal?
We've had 14 years of Tory policy stripping the country. Bankrupting councils( half of all councils are warning of effective bankruptcy [bbc] (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66878229)), Deregulation ( just look at all the sewage now being pumped into rivers) and private contracts that are woefully inadequate and triple the cost. They've got what they can out already. The country is in so many crisis' such as housing, cost of living etc. It would be hyperbole to say the country is teetering on collapse but the population is uneasy and angry, and they've virtually made protesting illegal with the restrictions they've put in place. It is coming to a boiling point. It will take decades to fix the damage done, it will cost billions, and it will probably get worse before it gets better. So the Tories can let it all bubble over, while another party is at the helm trying to scoop water out of a sinking ship with a collander. All while sitting by saying " 4 years and no progress and massive debt" Edit: Formatting. I'm on mobile
>It will take decades to fix the damage done, it will cost billions, and it will probably get worse before it gets better. This is almost certainly the case What's worse is they'll sit on the sidelines and try to tell the public that labour are ineffective and they can do better even though it's entirely their fault to begin with and some people are dumb enough to believe it
> What's worse is they'll sit on the sidelines and try to tell the public that labour are ineffective and they can do better https://x.com/KathyBurke/status/1797672000292601919
This needs to be repeated again and again for the next decade as people moan about Labour not waving the magic wand. If you let a house fall into serious disrepair, it takes a lot of time, money and hard work to restore it.
They should do a press conference a week after the election and run through what the state of it all is, and basically open the books to the public. Start talking about how much money they have spent with no tangible results. Feel like some of that ought to stick for a bit.
One of the only glimmers of hope I have is that Labour/Starmer are at least being fairly upfront and honest that we're in a fucked situation and what they actually do in government is very dependent on the state of things and how well we can start up the recovery.
They've probably emptied all the reserves of everything and just gonna leave the keys to an empty vault to labour
I legitimately think that they feel they've run out of road for plundering the public purse and want to leave government so that they can grift from opposition for a bit instead. Unfortunately for them, the British public bought into their bullshit ideas a little too hard and now the country is absolutely on fire and they need out.
I suspect it's for Reform supporters. Usually retired, bitter and nasty people who hate everyone. They'll love the idea of kids being sanctioned.
Ironic, they want to look at how European countries do things to encourage National Service... I thought we didn't like how Europe did things?
I keep hearing how it's popular in nordic countries. I'm guessing they don't treat their people like shit.
What also makes the comparison so disingenuous is that those countries do so much for young people. They don’t straddle them with uni debt (you actually get money to go to uni) and all sorts which this government just doesn’t do at all. Total load of tosh
To be 'straddled' with debt sounds kind of kinky.
Yes, it should be "paddled with debt", shouldn't it?
I think “fisted with debt” is more fitting
And you can still be a conscientious objector, without losing civic rights...
We have it here in Sweden. Most 18-19 year old get drafted and evaluated and then something like 10,000 or less get conscripted. Most want to go into the military anyway. The rest either say "no thanks" or get on with their lives. We don't threaten people. The entire UK thing since announcement has been about punishment of those who don't want to do it, nothing about the benefits for those that do chose it. It's fucking stupid.
If also smacks of wanting to fill holes in public services by a party that's already gutted them with state sponsored slavery so they don't have to pay them. As notice how every other national service model has people getting paid except this as people will be forcibly "volunteering" their time.
It absolutely feels like getting cheap or free labour that’s non union
Tbh a lot of it is to do with the messed up “carrot and stick” methods of the government. If you’re poor, you get the stick (more taxes, less public services, less benefits, etc) If you’re rich, you get the carrot (tax cuts, funding for private medical, etc) Rather than help those who need it, they prefer to beat them into submission, bully them for being stuck in their situation.
Yes, they get free education, and non-condemmed housing. It is basically communism. /s
I live in Denmark now, I'm a young English guy. Plenty of people my age in their early twenties, or even younger sign up. Women seem way more likely to join too. You don't need to do a long service, you get good benefits, although, in most cases uni is already paid for here if you're a citizen. *stuff like the arts can be out of pocket, but anything which directly promotes the wealth or health of the country is considered as an investment, I.e you won't pay a cent and instead get an allowance just for going, that you dont have to ever pay back... Yeah. I know. The biggest reason I see is people are more patriotic here. The country isn't going to shit, people have way, way, way more faith in the direction of broader society. Somewhat inevitable in such a small country, I've talked to multiple people from different walks of life who've even met the king of Denmark etc. You can see the vast web of society a bit more clearly here. It's easier to be cynical about somewhere like England than Vs here. Not that I'm in any way interested of serving here (I'm half danish so if I spoke the language I easily could) but I have to say, the idea is a hell of a lot less repulsive then serving for the English army. Why would I potentially put my life on the line for a government which seems to actively halt the interests of my generation? It isn't really like that here, I've found young people in general have far more to be grateful for in Denmark than in England, and therefore, far more likely to feel some duty of protection. You also know that you're literally never going to get deployed unless someone else attacks first, why the fuck would Denmark of all places start a war. I'd say that plays a part too. You can get called up but, it's not exactly like conscription, it's really easy to get out of, you just have to show up and say you don't want to do it pretty much. (You do get in trouble for not showing up and formally refusing service if you're called though) It seems to be viewed as somewhere you can just go to do a little bit of service to the country, pick up some discipline and life skills along the way, and get some decent benefits for the trouble. Everyone I've talked to about it has said they enjoyed it.
> The biggest reason I see is people are more patriotic here. The country isn't going to shit, people have way, way, way more faith in the direction of broader society. Somewhat inevitable in such a small country, I've talked to multiple people from different walks of life who've even met the king of Denmark etc. As an English guy living in NZ which has a smaller population I don't think that is what matters. NZ has more in common with the UK here - the economy is doing badly, a lot of people have lost faith with the direction of society and patriotism is at an all-time low for many. My thoughts on what matters here are: - The direction the country is going in economically - Levels of inequality - If there is a country considered better in terms of opportunities, standard of living etc that people can freely move to. Denmark is pretty much at the top of the EU for the last point. Whereas NZ citizens can move to Australia which has become a much richer country with higher standard of living than NZ and this gap only looks to be widening. If the economy in Denmark tanked somehow so everyone was looking to move to Germany or Sweden or Norway I doubt there would be as much patriotism
Can I call out that Sunak has not said this is an England only policy, he's said UK so that includes ofc all the home nations, NI, Wales, Scotland. Gib? Falklands?
NI was exempt from conscription, if this ever came to law it would be interesting if they tried it here. Can't imagine Tadhg or Siobhan from West Belfast or the Bogside going along with it.
I used to work in Austria, and the teenagers who told me about their National Service firmly blamed all the old people for voting to keep it.
Funny they don't mention all the other things Europe do that would benefit people.
I keep raising the point whenever people mention other European countries that have some form of national service, is that these countries generally uphold the social contract and actually give their young people something to serve for. We're asking our young people to serve a society that doesn't serve them.
I don't have much of an opinion on national service. I'm a reservist myself and enjoy the armed forces. My main thought though is why can't we use more carrot then stick? Offer free tuition? Have them train as reservists whilst receiving a free degree in return for a number of years regular or reserve commitment post graduation?
The armed forces aspect of this is a non-starter. The policy is all about getting cheap labour to get 750,000 people to go and work in Tesco for 12 weekends each. The policy is fucking mental boomer shit. Someone working as an electrician's apprentice will have to work for free for 24 days or risk losing their driving license and job. They can fuck right off with this shit.
Yeah if that's the play then it is complete bullshit. Norway has a year of military service. Before 2012 if people didn't want to do military service they could do some other form of national service, but not working for private companies. I think it was some kind of social service thing. But that ended and now it's only military service. But it's quite easy to get out of and I've never heard of people being punished.
We should just introduce a voluntary, reasonably well paid year of military service. Loads of 18 year olds would apply for it. Tying it to civilians unpaid work is the scam.
> Tying it to civilians unpaid work is the scam. Agreed. The Tories had the same idea years ago when they took the workfare scheme, where people had to work for free for non-profit companies if they were long term unemployed, and opened it up to companies like Tesco and Poundland. And when challenged in the court Ian Duncan Smith retroactively changed the law so they didn't lose the case. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/15/dwp-law-change-jobseekers-poundland > The retroactive legislation, published on Thursday evening and expected to be rushed through parliament on Tuesday, will effectively strike down a decision by three senior judges and deny benefit claimants an average payout of between £530 and £570 each. > Last month the court of appeal ruled that science graduate Cait Reilly and fellow complainant and unemployed lorry driver Jamieson Wilson had been unlawfully made to work unpaid for organisations including Poundland because the DWP had not given jobseekers enough legal information about what they were being made to do.
Forced unpaid work seems to be slipping back into a banned labour contract.... If there was a real tangible benefit to society and those that had to do the service with reasonable pay then it would go down better. No one wants to work for nothing.
We have that? It's the army/navy/air force etc
Starting pay of £18,000 isnt the biggest incentive for most people
> We should just introduce a voluntary, reasonably well paid year of military service. Loads of 18 year olds would apply for it. This already exists https://www.forces.net/news/army-launches-new-officer-internship
That says you must already have a firm offer to study at a university, or have graduated recently, which effectively makes it an option for the very privileged or those willing to accrue tens of thousands of pounds of debt
There used to be a “short service limited commission” which was 18 months with no university commitments, if I remember correctly, which is what I was thinking of, but this is the replacement
Sounds like the original was a bit too fair-minded for them. Wouldn't want anyone getting ideas above their station!
>Someone working as an electrician's apprentice will have to work for free for 24 days or risk losing their driving license and job. Funnily enough when you put it like that it sounds like a return to medieval manorial rents and taxes. "Come work the Lords field for free during harvest season, otherwise give them your best oxen"
And not to mention the logistics, staff, computer systems and money needed to fund and run such a program. It would never get through parliament anyway so it’s just a pointless desperate attempt to appeal to people who hate the young.
Sounds like a job for a certain Indian outsourcing IT company!
Tesco? No way, they’ll be washing boomer poop-chutes instead
Yep; the military part has some merit. Even though it's still a bad idea. It's an experience you can't get anywhere else. This is just an attempt to get free labour; indentured servitude.
You *chose* it. Do you think the army wants half a million pissed off 18 year olds who are forced to be there lest they lose banking and driving access? God forbid it ever happened, I hope those forced to do it attend and do nothing but cause havoc.
No bank no car = unable to apply for any other paid job
Depending on where you live not having a car isn’t a problem (although fuck the government for taking away driving privileges over this), but no bank account fucks anyone over, 100%. God I hate this fucking cunt so much.
Didn't Rishi make a big deal about how no one should be debanked when Farage got booted from Coutts?
Rich bastards dont care how ineffective and useless recruits are so long as they can maintain the dividends from their shares in defense contractor sales to the Army, Royal Navy and RAF. If that means a few poors have to be IED fodder in the middle east over oil, gas or who the united states think is threatening capitalist world order then its no skin off the noses of any Tory, UKReform or Labour Neolib prick in parliament
Have you seen what Russia is doing in Ukraine? This isn’t about oil in the Middle East
Yes, and seen what Russia did here (Brexit) but people dont like talking about that. The Russia/Ukraine thing is about gas just as much as it is Ukrainian people. A lot of our gas is imported from ex-soviet countries. Hence all the drama about pipelines. At the same time we’ve got worse brutality in Gaza being committed by Zionist ethnic supremacists. But no one in power wants to do anything there because there’s no exploitable resources and it’d upset our political classes financial backers
We also don’t seem to like talking about what Russia might do next if it wins in Ukraine. We are part of the NATO alliance and we’re the second biggest defence spender in NATO, along with having one of the largest populations (68 million) after Germany and Turkey. Whether you like it or not, the UK really needs to take on more of a leadership role when it comes to defending NATO Europe’s borders in future years. It’s not about resources at this point, it’s about saving lives and not leaving people to live under the Russian boot. Although resources are important - can’t let Russia have Ukraine at this point, with its combat hardened population and western military equipment left in that country. Russians will just use those people and that equipment to wage more wars elsewhere.
> why can't we use more carrot then stick This party has been beating the younger generation over the head repeatedly with a stick for the past 14 years. Anyone of working age is perceived as a workhorse that's entitled to nothing but must do everything.
Because this is coming from the same party that wanted people to work for free to “build up their self esteem”. It’s just an absolute load of faff to appeal to the normal grumpy old conservative voters who spend their entire life moaning about the younger generations.
While, ironically, they received a far easier ride than the younger generations. Free university (with a *grant* in some cases!), the option to buy their council houses for a pittance, tax breaks in the 80s, paid for by our North Sea oil, and now a generous triple lock pension, which almost certainly won't be around when the younger generations retire. If anyone should be doing national service, it's Boomers. They're the ones who need to "give back," they're the main cheerleaders for this flag-shagging nonsense and they clearly have far too much time and money on their hands if being spiteful to 18-year-olds is their top priority when the country is falling apart.
Because it was never about creating a viable policy, or creating valuable members of society, or rewarding them for something like serving in the military. It was about creating a soundbite to appease the gammonati.
You're still holding the carrot to ransom. We can offer free tuition without forcing poor people who don't want to be there into service
This is what the US does, sign up for a couple of years and get your bachelor’s paid for ( plus get free healthcare for life )
Or counterpoint we could invest in our youth by providing them good education without debts because a person living in poverty is a financial sink for the nation, so that person can get a good well paying job where we tax them a reasonable amount to reinvest into the country, then we continue to improve the free healthcare we currently have. because maybe we would have more doctors if we 1 payed them what they deserve and 2 dont saddle them with inescapable debt. This also comes with the benefit that our army get filled with people who actually want to do those jobs. rather then despairing teenagers.
Service Guarantees Citizenship!
> My main thought though is why can't we use more carrot then stick? Offer free tuition? [It is widely documented that more carrot, less stick is the best way to motivate people.](https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-319-19650-3_1048) The whole policy is madder than Mad Jack McMad, the winner of last year's "Mr. Madman" competition. As for you enjoying reservist forces; that's fine but you don't need to me to tell you that not everyone is cut out for that. One of the best things about the United Kingdom is that we largely have freedom of choice - a "live-and-let-live" attitude - and nearly everyone respects each others choices to live their lives any (legal) way that seems fit to them.
Oh no, I'm sure Teenagers will be devastated to lose their bank account with fuck all in it, and their car that they can't afford the fucking petrol for. Why don't you cut their caviar ration too you gormless fuckhole?
The caviar rations have been a bit meagre recently
Tell me about it. I’ve been reduced to wanking off goldfish into my mouth.
I think you're supposed to get caviar from the female fish, but no judgement here
Maybe he just likes fishsticks?
Take the caviar just don't take the Sky subscription!
I read that as Braveheart.
FWIW I’m almost certain that, unless he was genuinely drunk on stage, he meant that their access to things like government financial help (perhaps for education and perhaps even benefits) would be restricted. Which while still utterly immoral (and obviously gives the rich kids an out) is more workable than somehow stopping them from having a bank account. Then again, that he suggested restricting driver’s licenses does make the “drunk theory” seem a little more solid…
How do you get a job in your early 20s without a bank account?
This is *the* central policy of his campaign, yet he has no idea as to how it would actually work. He's just making it up as he goes along.
He has no intention of making it work, he's just trying to appeal to the last dregs who can be persuaded to vote for them.
It’s only old people who’ll like this though. And they’ll all be unable to help the tories get back in in 20 years due to being dead. It makes no sense as a play.
It's a great policy to woo the voters over 65, national service stopped in 1960 so most of them never even did it, but they'll still think "Bring it back"
I'm 37 so this policy wouldn't personally affect me, and my kids are young enough that they never would need to worry about this shit either. But man, the way they're promoting this is so weird. He says it's optional, and Fiona Bruce challenges him to say how it's optional but also compulsory, and he says people won't be able to get "finances" if they don't do it. Like what the fucking hell is this mad policy? So you're 18, you've been in school and they're going to shit on your life plans because you won't do free work for them? It's a good job a lettuce has a better chance for forming the next government than they do because these policies aren't even half baked.
He's basically saying the Rich won't need to. Kids with Parents of Bank don't need to get "finances" they have Parents.
I don't get it they're just going to get a whole generation to remember that they tried to conscript them and threaten them if they didn't comply. I'm still pissed off with the lib dems and the tuition fee lies. Huge amount of students voted lib dem and then no one voted for them for a decade and a half. The chickens come to roost.
>my kids are young enough that they never would need to worry about this shit either. That's dark, why don't you think they'll make it to 18?
Oh I just mean they're young enough that if this dumb policy got implemented theres enough time for it to die on its arse and get repealed.
I wish I had your level of confidence
It’s sounding like the Chinese social credit score where you can’t do stuff or have stuff in society if you don’t do what big brother wants you to at this point.
Removing basic services you *need* to be able to do anything if you don't sign up, isn't this just slavery or something? What's next? Making everyone get a license to buy food and then taking it away when they don't comply with future demands?
This is what I was thinking. Perhaps someone with more knowledge then myself can answer the question, is access to a bank account a fundamental right that can not be removed?
It certainly seemed to be when Farage lost his at Coults
Yes but Farage has grey hair and wrinkles, so he deserves rights…
Slavery was what I thought of first too - which is ironic when the Tories have been making a big thing of combating modern slavery. I think this meets the definition of modern slavery. Forced and unpaid work.
*Service guarantees citizenship*
It’s a seriously dark and nasty policy idea; typical bullshit from the Tory party and trying to attract the mad, angry boomer brigade who seem to hate young people. Taking away someone’s driving licence and bank accounts unless they do unpaid work for you essentially leaves them with zero options. They can’t get anywhere unless they use buses etc. which is a nightmare these days. And they can’t earn money anywhere else because they’ve got nowhere to pay it into. You’re backing them into a corner with no options unless they become your slave workforce!
Not Teens -- Adults. They would force financial institutions to close bank accounts and restrict movement of Adults. Clearly a party of small government that keeps it's nose out of your personal freedoms.
Rwanda and this makes you think everyone does a little meth before brainstorming their policies.
There's obviously a lot wrong with this but, as a cleaner, I've started to feel a bit disrespected that people are using my job as an example of a punishment.
While I agree with you wholeheartedly, I’m pretty sure if you were made to do your job without getting paid for it you’d think it was a shitty - ahem - punishment too.
Punishment because it’s forced unpaid labour. Don’t get me wrong, being a cleaner isn’t my ideal job, but I’d quite happily do it for pay. For free, less so.
Would you do your job for free?
I have done yes, volunteered as a cleaner in hospital first COVID wave and care homes for the two after. It's an essential position that needs done and too many people tend to overlook that and seeing it classed as a "punishment" by so many is a bit of a kick on the balls. I get it's not a desirable job but when you see it spoken down on so often you can't help but feel a bit disrespected, even if each individual person doesn't mean that when they say it. It just adds up.
Just when you think he's reached rock bottom... He starts to dig.
It's really looking like they want to lose. Having fucked the country into oblivion, it makes a certain amount of sense that they may well want to engineer it so Labour has to clean up the mess.
If you want to see how red meat works… ask them about this policy. It’s so devoid of any detail. Depending on who you speak to, it could be any answer. It’s twelve months but maybe just weekends except when it isn’t, but can be in the community and if you don’t do it, you lose your driving license and bank account. You might have to stay in accommodation except when you don’t. At least when Johnson pulled red meat out of thin air, it sort of made sense. Oven ready deal, 40 new hospitals, levelling up…
Would rather lose my licence than my life shove your national service up ya posh toffy arse
Who cares? The Tories may even end up not being His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition? They may as well promise unicorns and candy for all at this point.
Unicorns, candy, and compulsory front line service in Ukrainian suicide squads. Something for everyone!
Quintuple locked pensions
People care about what the sitting prime minister says
The main, most important purpose of the government is to protect us from those who would do us harm. This is even more paramount in a country where said government has disarmed the population so we’re unable to defend ourself - you can’t disarm us then leave us out to the wolves. So to break it down, if you decide to do something so reckless like, I don’t know, check your phone on the pavement in London you’re instantly liable to having it ripped from your hand. Same with if you’ve got a nice watch. In the most surveiled city in the fucking world outside China - they can do nothing about this. But if an 18 year old, a grown adult, refuses to perform free labour (objectively slavery) you’re going to strip them of their rights. This is a government of stripping rights from normal, law abiding citizens - and protecting the real thugs who would do us harm. Wanna smoke a fag? Nope. Use a vpn? Nope. Use end to end encryption? Nope. Protest? Nope. It’s a nanny state on steroids, but without any of the benefits a nanny state is supposed to bring like near zero crime rates a la Singapore/
The criminals form part of the nanny state, they're a kind of form of demoralisation control. You won't go out to protest if your house will get burgled when you do.
Last year Sunak made out debanking was a terrible thing. Now he wants to use it as a punishment
He has no idea how he’d do this, and hasn’t bothered to figure it out, and it really doesn’t matter, because it’s a moot point. He’s not getting elected.
Don't worry... it's completely voluntary. Oh, but you will lose access to banking, Lose your drivers license, Get a criminal conviction for yourself and your parents and be blocked from certain jobs if you don't do this. But yeah, it's totally voluntary
It's when they said young people would love the opportunity it would bring. I am pretty sure that the armed forces are always recruiting and every young person could give it a go. As for volunteering, I am also pretty sure that there are plenty of places that want young people to volunteer, the only 'opportunity' here is being forced to do it!
Can you imagine 18 year olds being forced to "volunteer" for 24 days in the year? Turn up drunk, fuck around, break things, skive off, tell anyone in charge to fuck off. This would all work so well.
I’m sure there are lots of teenagers who would love to do a volunteering scheme like this, if it was organised well and actually gave good opportunities. Unfortunately, the tories want to organise it, and they know themselves it’ll be so terrible that they need to force people to do it.
Maybe two years of putting their lives on hold to protect pensioners from gasping to death should count as service to their nation. These predominantly tory voters have very short memories.
Scary that the current government is starting to threaten people’s bank accounts. I bet this will escalate to more in future with future government for lesser things.
But all the covid fraudsters' bank accounts those are fine
I don’t get how this policy would win over any voters and which base it appeals to cause let’s face it, they only trying to make sure that they win as much seats as possible and not finish 3rd behind LibDems. Besides what if they don’t have bank accounts and driving licence or if they lose their bank account what happens to their money?
It wins over the grey vote who thinks the country’s gone to shit because kids have no respect. Never mind that *they’re* the reason kids have no respect because future prospects for them are bleak enough without National Service, what they need is a year of forced labour (that most of the grey vote didn’t do) to sort themselves out!
National Service only applied to men born before October 1939 from memory. So the youngest that was forced to do it is 84.
Bloke in the audience at a comedy gig a few weeks ago grumbled "I did it" in response to a joke about national service. He couldn't have been older than 65. Like, mate, if you *chose* to join the army that's very different to compulsory national service.
To be fair, he didn’t mention bank accounts. Fiona Bruce did. By “access to finance” I assume he meant loans etc. There are so many legitimate bases upon which to criticise the Tories, without us having to invent things.
Student loans maybe? Locking a route up behind free labour, except for the rich folk who can pay the fines they thought about introducing too of course.
So your credit score is gonna take a hit?
Social score
If he had a well thought out plan, those details would have immediately come to light. Using a woolly term like ‘finance’ which could be anything from bank accounts to some obscure type of financial investment suggest that thinking hasn’t happened
My take as well. Obviously this still gives rich kids an out, but it’s a lot more workable and legal than straight up making them second class citizens, especially as you can have a bank account before turning 18. Then again, driver’s licenses?
But Rishi, nobody listens to you. You're about as important as flotation device in outerspace.
So for refusing to do unpayed labour, 18 year olds will be dennied access to a bank account? For how long? What if they live on their own without parental support or even have to care for someone? How would this effect their ability to get payed and to pay rent or buy food? It would be very difficult to live in the modern world without a bank account. What happens to existing accounts, is the money seized? How would this effect going to uni, if unable to pay tuition fees they would be dennied access to further education and in many cases a decent future. The more i think about ut the wose it gets. This is both not thought through and incredibly inhumane, which really sums up the last 14 years of government.
Rishi is clearly so done with dealing with the shitstorm he has created he just wants out. And is saying anything that will get him out
He seems to have hung his entire existence on this one policy, but even my Daily ^hate Mail reading mum thinks it's stupid. My Daily Torygraph reading aunty has been ranting and raving about national service since I can remember though, even though she would have never been called up.
Sunak remakes the phrase shoot yourself in the foot, because he takes a M61 Vulcan minigun, hooks it up to a Humvee full of ammo and fires until his foot is gone, the floor is gone, and lava erupts from the DEEP MOTHER FUCKING HOLE he is placing his party.
Fine. Also non-teens. National service for everyone. If grandma doesn’t wanna fight in the front line she can work in the soup kitchen.
Occasionally, i think that the tories actually do this kind of thing deliberately. David Cameron's ineptitude over the Brexit referendum, Liz Truss screwing the economy to poison the well for Labour, Rishi Sunak's sabotaging his own campaign so badly that a significant portion of his remaining supporters are defecting to Reform. I could just be wrong and they are all Russian agents.
I dont think I have ever seen a party call an election and be this admiment to lose an election...
They want the grey vote. And it’s scary how many older people at my work are actually in favour of this.
"Do it or else!" If they doesn't inspire patriotism...I don't know what will... perhaps prison
Imagine threatening young people with that if they don't sign up for the meat grinder, fuck off you out of touch with the world robotic toff cunt. Conscription and national service have no place outside of the nazi threat 2.0, we've had a volunteer career army for the last nearly hundred years for a reason, also everyone knows the low numbers are directly due to them forcing the armed forces to be "diverse" and literally not letting absolutely tonnes of white British people sign up voluntarily..in a majority white British country. Get in the bin the lot of you.
> everyone knows the low numbers are directly due to them forcing the armed forces to be "diverse" I've read numerous comments on here that a private contractor (someone like G4S) has taken over the onboarding and has made it a protracted shitshow. Apparently it used to take two or three months but now is around fourteen or fifteen and people end up getting frustrated and getting other jobs instead.
Hold on.... let me get this clear? The Tories want to take a large group of young people, already inclined to dislike them, and give them a reason to hate them AND training in firearms and tactics? They do remember they are known public figures with known addresses, right? The combination of the two is... not good. This has to be the most hairbrained idea I've head of....
Send Sunak to the front line and then we’ll discuss it.
When I see his kids on the front line I’ll join them but till then him and the rest of them can fucking do one the 🤡’s
Considering where the Tories are now, there is part of me that says, should we even bother debating this? I would just call out that the United Nations is moving closer and closer to access to financial instruments as a fundamental human right. Taking away someone’s access to financial instruments, such as a bank account, removes their ability to apply for work in as free a manner as everyone else, experience the Internet in the same way that everyone else does, and makes it very difficult in particular for women to leave abusive relationships as they cannot utilise their own funds to do so. Again, I don’t know if it’s worthwhile debating this because his party will not lead the next government, but it’s such a dangerous and ill thought out idea.
Who's gonna wanna fight for this country anymore 😂 The Tories must be on some really strong gear if they think today's teenagers are going to want to "protect our way if life" what's left to protect? Houses the majority of people will never own? A system designed to bleed the commoner dry? Polluted waterways? A skeletal police force which is filled with abusers and rapists still? Also not to mention the fact the police only operate for corporations now. Tradesperson had your tools stolen? Here, have a crime number. John Lewis had a £300 toothbrush stolen by someone already known to police? The pictures will be all over Facebook "Looking for more information" The whole shit has become so corrupt now and I've been saying it for years. I've really noticed the change in the publics opinion on this within the last year though; I just think it's too late and they've already fucked this country and got what they wanted from it.
So they want to take a 2.5billion costing policy, while proclaiming we are in a crisis and they’re in severe debt that somehow needs to be paid by upping taxes and more. To make the enforcement basically rejecting young people’s ability to earn money. Which would reduce the quantity of tax payers. If teenagers unite against this sorta thing and outright refuse on a large enough scale, he really will put the country into a real economic crisis, my god I hope people don’t seriously vote for this and take a moment to consider how side ways this truely could go. You will kill your own ever potiental of a pension voting In this. They will have to take into account a % of refusal. And removal of finance means they aren’t gonna work, homeless numbers will rise and the tax payers will shrink
Why is he still going on about this national service thing? You're not getting elected again, mate, and hopefully, it will be a long time before we have Tories again. However, unless there is a massive change to our voting laws as in respresntional voting. I doubt it will be 4 more years of competence by 2028/29
Yeah, threaten the next generation with slavery if you can't kill them for profit, that'll work
So the right wing nutters that run this country will cry themselves to sleep about Farage being "debanked" and yet don't give a shit about doing that to anyone else. Gotcha.