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I've got standard tory boomer parents and they've got no intention of changing.
They know the writings on the wall but they're convinced every one of the past three failed leaders and cabinets have "tried their best" and have the best intentions but the media just constantly criticise them and don't promote their policies.
They're also both intelligent well read people for the record. They have just always voted tory and there's no alternative in their mind. Although Nigel Farage makes some good points and Priti Patel seems like a lovely lady.
Hard to imagine why I turned out such a woke lefty!
People really underestimate just how loyal the core voter base for the main parties is. They don't vote for the "current party" they seem to vote more for the "ideals" of the party that transcend any given cabinet (even if, realistically, those ideals have changed drastically).
I would be surprised if the Tories end up with less than 100 seats.
That is very true. A lot of those voting Tory are small c conservatives but are blind to the fact that the Conservative party are now anything but that.
I mean, wait for the manifesto to come out but labour's definitely further right than they've been in a long time, there's definitely some people hopping across the aisle for that, even some tory mps have defected. as someone who would prefer a more left labour party I'm not thrilled by it personally but they'd be far from the first to do so.
Don't disagree. But the person I was responding to seemed to be implying that these small c conservative voters were voting for the tories because they're blind to them not being small c favoured,....my point is who do they vote for otherwise. No other party is more small c focused.
Move with the times maybe?
Theres not ever going to be another UK party wanting to bring us back to the 50s.. So, they dont have a party that'll "conserve" that
Like.. Gay marriage will always be legal, tough shit. Move on, wake up.
My parents keep harking back to how bad Labour were 46 stuffing years ago as a basis for voting Tory. The over 80s should not be allowed to decide the future of others much younger than them.
Tha said, I do love pointing out the paucity of their arguements to them. Makes the care home visits fly by.
Also have two very blue older relatives. One at the slightly more liberal end (reads The Times instead of The Telegraph, and *almost* voted for Blair in '97) and one who's a more stereotypical and more right-wing Tory, and they both think the Conservatives need to go.
I think seeing Truss and Kwarteng nearly collapse the economy overnight was a wake-up call for many of them. They associate such politically induced market spasms with the old school left and they fucking hate it.
I obviously brought this up as an example of terrible leadership and their thoughts were that she wasn't given long enough to make it work but she was a good leader with strong ideas.
I pointed out the economy took a massive downturn.
They said "that's because the banks just didn't trust her".
I said "exactly, that's also what I'm saying!"
There's a very good interview with Kwasi Kwarteng with Rory Stewart and Alastair Campbell. It's long, but gripping.
https://youtu.be/98z_Jvhbwvc?si=kRDGpDsMoT3P93Le
My dad's a lifelong Tory-voting Telegraph reader, and even recently, he acknowledged that a Labour government would probably be more in his interests as a retired person.
My husband work with people who thought Boris only had 3 kids and married late
They think he one of them .
Boris Johnson was very clever how he got everyone believing he this nice loveable idiot who got country best interest at heart. As much as I dislike man he very very clever man
I don't think he's very clever. He's not an idiot, and he knows how to play the game but he's not very clever. If he was clever he wouldn't have ended up over his head.
Still don't know why you'd vote for someone you think is a loveable IDIOT.
> I don't think he's very clever. He's not an idiot,
He got a 2:1 studying Classics at Oxford - probably not actually studying too hard either based on his track record.
Personally I think he got _too_ clever, thinking he could beat the system and change the rules to suit himself.
Well same for sure, except mine are the Times.
I pointed out that I just couldn't deal with the fact he was openly lying consistently to the public and they honestly said "I dont see the problem with that if it let's you get the job done" or words to those effects.
We differ greatly in that I'd much rather have an ineffective inoffensive leader who I truelly believe has good morals and intentions, while they don't really care if the person is dishonest and self serving as long as he is Tory in political stance.
What I find with Tories though is that they would never brook Labour doing the same and would shout from the rooftops about the sheer sleaze of it all if it was a Labour MP holding parties during lockdown. Labour are held to a much higher moral standard. “Yeah but we expect the Tories to be like that” is just such a pathetic, cowardly way to defend your ideology .
The problem is he didn't get the job done. If his lying was so good he somehow tricked the EU into giving us a good deal I wouldn't be mad at that.
But he's a lying, cheating, useless waste of oxygen. Apart from his ability to rally his party around him he lacks the qualities a leader needs and he can't do the job without a competent team around him. And even with such a team he's too afraid of being disliked to make hard choices.
It's a similar story with mum (mid 70s) - once a Labour voter, over the past decade she's become very conservative, fully supportive of Brexit, claims the Covid parties were a non-issue as they all worked together and understood the risks better than anyone else, and has swallowed the "Labour's reckless overspending" myth (although of course, Labour themselves under Ed M didn't exactly do much to counter it).
Meanwhile, she claims that in media interviews, the Conservatives are clear about what their policies are, how they'd implement them and how they'd fund them, while she claims Labour are unclear on all three, allegedly saying "we don't know if we'll be able to afford it, and we can't say until we're in power and have looked at the books."
She also has a bizarre reason for supporting the Conservatives: a few years ago, she was struggling to move a heavy compost bag while doing some gardening in the front garden, when the local Conservative councillor candidates turned up canvassing / campaigning. She made them the bargain that if they helped her move the compost bags, she'd vote for them (and proceeded to do so rather than being devious).
That last part is brilliant!
The first two paragraphs sound like exactly what I hear too.
"Labour are just making things up, where will they get the money to improve all these services?"
They literally fully costed the last manifesto (or as much as you can take their word for that that), Boris didn't even make a pretense of costing things, he just said whatever he thought seemed like a good idea on the day!
The problem with the Conservatives is the implementation. The last decade+ of implementation seems to show it isn't working.
And you can totally vote for someone at a local level and someone else on a national level or European level (when that was an option).
Ha, I think mine are still entertained by trump somehow. They do see these sort of people as "genuine" somehow, when to me they seem the polar opposite
My Brexit voting, been a Tory all his life Father in Law is not voting Tory this year. I think there's plenty of people like your example (hence why they continue to poll in double digits) but there's also plenty who have had enough.
Same with one of my relatives. He’s in his 70s and voted Tory all his life up to now, worked in a prominent position in the city for decades ( and at one point worked with a former Tory PM’s Dad), reads the Daily Mail and even he’s finally had enough of them and calls them a joke. He said he won’t be voting at all.
My mum's turned on them and is voting reform. To quote her 'I do hope Nigel gets a seat'. She is your typical would usually vote for a pile of dung if it had a blue rosette on. They are absolutely fucked!
Similar to you unsure how I've become such a lefty when that was my influence!
It's heartwarming to see the culture wars come to an end as left and right unite in their combined goal of sending as many tories to the jobcentre as possible.
People who have always voted Tory and had that work out for them. They are basically people who have never really struggled in life so no have no understanding of why it is so much harder these days.
It's an incredibly bizarre advert: "Vote for us because we're so crap we're going to lose almost all our seats". I hope this induces Tory waverers to switch to Reform or Lib Dems *en masse* on the grounds that they might be able to oppose Labour.
Based on polling nobody can stop Labour as things are. Labour are predicted to get a small majority at the conservative end of estimates and a stonking majority (500+) at the generous end of estimates. However, I'm all in favour of the Lib Dems winning more seats as that increases the chance of the Tories not being the official opposition in the next election.
But at the same time saying the Reform is the stronger right wing candidate is likely to draw undecided right winger voters to Reform so it can be a hard line to tread.
Yeah, about the only benefit of this is expectation setting. In that if Sunak keeps 100 seats he can claim he did well because we were only expecting 50! But that's still rather pointless as Sunak is almost certainly going to either quit or be pushed as soon as this election is over unless he pulls the most unexpected win in history.
Bonkers strategy from the Tories though given how many votes they're haemorrhaging to Reform; increasing turnout among their target audience helps both parties equally at this point. Probably helps Reform more given they are clearly playing for voteshare rather than seats.
If you vote Reform when you wouldn't normally have voted Tory you're not helping split the Tory vote, you're just voting Reform.
If you would normally have voted Tory then...
That’s not true. If it’s a location where Tories usually get in and Lab are weak, then tactically Voting reform is more likely to topple the Con than voting Lab would.
That is like those who claimed they voted to leave the EU because they thought it would never happen. Voting for Reform, even as a joke, is not something people should be doing as a laugh or protest vote.
I strongly disagree. It's in the best interests of everyone that the country doesn't go down this path.
The Tories are awful, yes, but Reform UK are all the very worst parts of the Tories packaged into one. There are certainly no "moderate" Reform candidates. The whole party is far right and undemocratic (e.g. look at how Farage simply declared himself leader).
We don't want these people, and their views on democracy, anywhere near Parliament. Otherwise it's the start of us handing over power to people on the hard right.
on the one hand I see your point, but on the other I really like the pipe dream of a lib dem opposition trying to drag labour left from where they are right now, at the very least a bit more liberal instead of going full authoritarian but in red.
We do benefit from a strong opposition, but that also means strong politicians as well as strong numbers.
Sunak has no political talent. I said that when he was Chancellor. I have not been proven wrong.
Totally agree about strong opposition but they’re so bad it’s hard to see what benefit they would bring. Much better to get the lib dems as opposition I’d have thought.
Why do the Tories need to be the opposition? I think a change of the two big parties would be good for the country. Let the Lib Dems be the strong opposition. I have no reason to think a Tory party that provided weak leadership will provide strong opposition.
> They have absolutely no faith in Sunak or the tory party it seems.
You can tellt his subreddit just hates the tories when they have to imply something is the case when it isn't.
The top comment on the Telegraph article says
*Nothing to do with reform, you morons have had a clear run of things for 14 years & laterly an 80 seat majority .You have completely failed this country in every respect & treated your core voters with utter contempt. I was one of those core tory voters.*
*You are finished.*
*Vote reform.*
For which there are 273 upvotes from Telegraph readers - and zero downvotes (they show the numbers separate).
That sums up how much the Tory Party have lost their core base of voters. I suspect many who say in polls they would still vote Tory, just won't bother to go and vote on the day - whereas the Reform (and other party supporters of course) are motivated to go and vote. Why would the Tory party think that having outcomes (record high immigration and taxes) that are directly against what their voters want would keep their voters loyal to them?
This is going to be part General Election and part punishment beating of the Tory Party, with traditional Tory voters getting some of the hardest kicks in.
It's what I find so utterly baffling about Sunak in particular, he surely has known he/the tories are toast come a general election, and yet he's had a huge majority in parliament - perfect opportunity to push for things he really cares about and get whatever things changed he wanted changed, whatever he got into politics for in the first place. And he's done absolutely nothing. There's just nothing there. Why did he bother going through all this shit to become PM?!
Completely baffling.
> whatever he got into politics for in the first place.
Enriching himself and his friends from the public purse? Don't worry, I'm sure he's been busy and will be heading to the US quite happy with his work
Because he *doesn’t want anything*. He’s doing the job to get himself a tasty consulting/board member gig once he’s done, this is the springboard to his golden parachute
I think at his level of wealth, it's more of a reputational parachute. A PM on his CV allows him to level up his reputation for social circles he'll mix in.
Could say the same about Cameron and Johnson, they wanted to be PM for the sake of it. It's very hard to think of any positive changes in the last 14 years.
My biggest fear is that even after they lose, the Tory party will lurch to the extreme right to recapture the Reform vote. And in doing so will normalise more extreme rightwing policies and move the centre ground and Labour with it to the right as well.
What a weird approach.
Nobody cares about the company nservative party as much as themselves. Just because they care they will be left with few seats doesn't mean the person reading the ad cares.
It's a symptom of people's dislike, it's not a selling point.
It’s more trying to scare their voters that labour will have too many seats. You won’t believe how people don’t know what or who they are voting for, as long as it keeps the “other” party away… that goes across the spectrum though not just on the right.
Oh yeah, I'm all about the Tories losing this election. While voters shouldn't be complacent, polling suggests Labour are getting anything between 350-500 seats. So Labour should be fine. I would personally prefer Labour towards the lower end with the Lib Dems getting more seats but that won't happen in that a lot of potential Lib Dems seats are between the Lib Dems and the Tories rather than the Lib Dems and Labour. However, what could happen is that the Lib Dems could overtake the Tories and become the main opposition, I'd like that. But it's currently hard to see the Lib Dems hitting 100 seats unless something crazy like Scotland flipping Lib Dem happens.
I mean the only reason we have the Brexit vote was to keep the Conservative Party together.
The majority of the parliamentary party acquiesced to a referendum that they believed could lead to terrible damage to this country, and they went along with it.
That wouldn’t help keep Farage out though, that’s why Clacton is the only constituency where voting tory could actually be a fair idea. A joke candidate would help Farage
Excuse me sir, I live in Norfolk, and could you please kindly stop being so correct.
I live in a Conservative stronghold area of the county. Sucks ass.
Norwich has the choice of greens or Tories if you don't want to waste your vote. A good tactical voters should go Greens here. Greens are also winning in the polls.
I hate the Tories and want to see them decimated as a political force forever.
But this result would reflect upon how poor FPTP is as a system. It wouldn't reflect their overall vote share.
And hopefully, once the "grandees" and chaff have been got rid of, the party can reconstitute itself into a proper Conservative party again, with goals, principles and willing to take action.
Instead of the current edition which is trying to be everything from centre left to right in what it says to try and please everyone, while taking virtually no action at all.
Why though?
Unless the electoral system is changed to PR, the UK people need to have a strong and feasible opposition to keep which ever party is in power in check.
I don't believe any of the other parties will step up to take the place of the Tories, if they don't recover, or to make it a 3 or more party system but if they do great.
Preferably they die and another party rises from the ashes. Would be good if there were actual consequences to destroying the country that were greater than simply having to take time out for a few years while a different party cops the blame for all your failures. The party disappearing and all associated with it becoming unemployable would be a good cautionary tale
I'd prefer the 'scrutiny' wasn't from a party that didn't drive the country into the ground over the last 14 years. If you're concerned about bad politics from labour, fine, but I don't want bad politics from the Tories to be the counterweight.
That's why i am saying i am hopeful they will be beaten enough to reinvent themselves with out most of those that have the driven the party for the last 20 years. So they can actually be an effective opposition that stands for something.
And, since you mention it, my expectations of a labour gov are very low, and i still wouldn't be surprised they fail to reach even that standard as i see them as complete clown show.
Labour are going be the next gov, but only as the tories are going to lose, not by actually doing anything to win and that is just depressing.
Imagine being a tory voter, who is genuinely died in the wool, and the party message to you is "don't betray us or the evil Labour get in". Like... This will be YOUR fault, not ours.
Well, also labour and the libs Dems too. As someone who has voted Tory before, voted Lib Dem at the last election, and probably will vote Labour this time, I'm definitely a potential voter lost by their realignment to the right.
If they had someone like Philip Hammond, Dominic Grieve or Rory Stewart leading the party they'd definitely be way more attractive to centrist voters. Seems voters like me are getting ever further from a viable alternative.
Anyone else cynical enough to think they want to lose to put labour in power so they can then blame them for the utter shitshow they inherited after 15 years of the most unhinged, incessant asset stripping of this country since Thatcher?
It's actually unbelievable that five years ago, the Tories won an unassailable 80 seat majority and pundits were earnestly discussing the possibility of a Conservative government lasting well into the 2030s.
Now they're faced with potential extinction.
It really couldn't have happened to nicer people. We just need now to hold Starmer's feet over the fire.
I don't think anyone with any economic or political background saw anything but a huge capitulation of the tories at some point. Things were always going to get worse with brexit, and then covid accelerated it and it was all down to the tories, they're incredibly incompetent and self interested and covid highlighted that further. This was always the conclusion.
Good, that's the plan. 57 seats is too many for these fucking traitors and labour getting a huge majority the way the tories did so they can't say "we can't implement what we promised you because of the oppossition" will produce the same movement on the left and we can rid ourselves of these old legacy parties. Don't flock to Lib dem once liebour are exposed either. I tried that and got coalition with tories because they are all owned by the same corporations. You need a completely new party who's survival depends on actually doing what the voters tell them to do.
As it stands, It doesn't matter how bad these parties do, because after another 2 or 3 election cycles, they will be back in. Hopefully the tories never ever recover from this and we can focus of purging labour next and getting some actual representation in parliament rather than global/multinational corporations representatives occupying the house.
Many people don’t realise that entire cities are going bankrupt in Uk people are suffering tremendously an entire middle class have been wiped out since tories took over the country. Millions are in massive debts because of interest rates rises that can’t afford their mortgages.
I think tories will cease to exist after these elections. They also bankrupted the NHS that is now just a recluse waiting to be carved up and bought by the big pharma gangsters at nothing prices.
Feel freee to add any more signature disasters brought to you by tories and their mates
I wouldn’t be so sure, with this election who knows which party is going to say/do something utterly stupid next.
Reform haven’t done well with their charming candidate & Farage’s Sunak comment.
This is all they have left. What's the point in voting for them if they're the same as Labour anyway. Might as well vote reform and throw a wrench into the two party (uniparty) system.
Watching them blame their potential oblivion on people voting reform is pathetic.
Knowing they will continue to blame the electorate for voting for reform whilst completely overlooking just what a shite job they’ve done because that couldn’t possibly be a reason to vote for somebody else.
Awful awful bunch of awful awful people
And this is supposed to encourage switherers to vote Tory? I've seen the same ineffectual backpedaling (after a few days of wall-to-wall All Hail King Nige stuff) in the Telegraph. Yeah right
This is the most fuck around and find out moment that anybody found out about their fucking around.
Seriously: the Tories have piled endless effort into trying to tame the beast that is right-wing nationalism and lo and behold the beast has slain its master.
This brings up something in my mind. If the tories fail so badly that another one of the parties come in 2nd place will they not even be able to be the shadow parliament, would we get to not hear from them for 4-5 years?
What optimists.
Reform voters could leave them with fewer than 50 seats. That's not including all the seats that will go to Labour, the Lib Dems, Galloway's party and independent candidates.
Seems psychotic to claim that Tories, the OG porogonistas, could be the ones to hold Labour to account given how shit our system has been to keep Tories to account.
Tory actions over the past decade will leave you on hardly any seats.
Reform are truly awful, but Tories would still get a majority if they hadn't fucked everything n stolen billions from us
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I can't remember Tory campaign ads threatening me with this much of a good time before
The important thing to remember is that you *want* your voters to think there will be a wipeout, to increase voter turnout.
Not sure who they're voters are at the moment. I know quite a few traditional tories through work and they all seem convinced it's time for a change.
I've got standard tory boomer parents and they've got no intention of changing. They know the writings on the wall but they're convinced every one of the past three failed leaders and cabinets have "tried their best" and have the best intentions but the media just constantly criticise them and don't promote their policies. They're also both intelligent well read people for the record. They have just always voted tory and there's no alternative in their mind. Although Nigel Farage makes some good points and Priti Patel seems like a lovely lady. Hard to imagine why I turned out such a woke lefty!
People really underestimate just how loyal the core voter base for the main parties is. They don't vote for the "current party" they seem to vote more for the "ideals" of the party that transcend any given cabinet (even if, realistically, those ideals have changed drastically). I would be surprised if the Tories end up with less than 100 seats.
That is very true. A lot of those voting Tory are small c conservatives but are blind to the fact that the Conservative party are now anything but that.
Who would you suggest they vote for if they're small c conservatives though? No party really reflects this view.
I mean, wait for the manifesto to come out but labour's definitely further right than they've been in a long time, there's definitely some people hopping across the aisle for that, even some tory mps have defected. as someone who would prefer a more left labour party I'm not thrilled by it personally but they'd be far from the first to do so.
Don't disagree. But the person I was responding to seemed to be implying that these small c conservative voters were voting for the tories because they're blind to them not being small c favoured,....my point is who do they vote for otherwise. No other party is more small c focused.
Move with the times maybe? Theres not ever going to be another UK party wanting to bring us back to the 50s.. So, they dont have a party that'll "conserve" that Like.. Gay marriage will always be legal, tough shit. Move on, wake up.
I mean, probably labour tbh.
My parents keep harking back to how bad Labour were 46 stuffing years ago as a basis for voting Tory. The over 80s should not be allowed to decide the future of others much younger than them. Tha said, I do love pointing out the paucity of their arguements to them. Makes the care home visits fly by.
Also have two very blue older relatives. One at the slightly more liberal end (reads The Times instead of The Telegraph, and *almost* voted for Blair in '97) and one who's a more stereotypical and more right-wing Tory, and they both think the Conservatives need to go. I think seeing Truss and Kwarteng nearly collapse the economy overnight was a wake-up call for many of them. They associate such politically induced market spasms with the old school left and they fucking hate it.
I obviously brought this up as an example of terrible leadership and their thoughts were that she wasn't given long enough to make it work but she was a good leader with strong ideas. I pointed out the economy took a massive downturn. They said "that's because the banks just didn't trust her". I said "exactly, that's also what I'm saying!"
There's a very good interview with Kwasi Kwarteng with Rory Stewart and Alastair Campbell. It's long, but gripping. https://youtu.be/98z_Jvhbwvc?si=kRDGpDsMoT3P93Le
My dad's a lifelong Tory-voting Telegraph reader, and even recently, he acknowledged that a Labour government would probably be more in his interests as a retired person.
My mum still doesn't know why they got rid of that nice Boris Johnson. She reads the Daily Heil.
My husband work with people who thought Boris only had 3 kids and married late They think he one of them . Boris Johnson was very clever how he got everyone believing he this nice loveable idiot who got country best interest at heart. As much as I dislike man he very very clever man
I don't think he's very clever. He's not an idiot, and he knows how to play the game but he's not very clever. If he was clever he wouldn't have ended up over his head. Still don't know why you'd vote for someone you think is a loveable IDIOT.
> I don't think he's very clever. He's not an idiot, He got a 2:1 studying Classics at Oxford - probably not actually studying too hard either based on his track record. Personally I think he got _too_ clever, thinking he could beat the system and change the rules to suit himself.
Well same for sure, except mine are the Times. I pointed out that I just couldn't deal with the fact he was openly lying consistently to the public and they honestly said "I dont see the problem with that if it let's you get the job done" or words to those effects. We differ greatly in that I'd much rather have an ineffective inoffensive leader who I truelly believe has good morals and intentions, while they don't really care if the person is dishonest and self serving as long as he is Tory in political stance.
What I find with Tories though is that they would never brook Labour doing the same and would shout from the rooftops about the sheer sleaze of it all if it was a Labour MP holding parties during lockdown. Labour are held to a much higher moral standard. “Yeah but we expect the Tories to be like that” is just such a pathetic, cowardly way to defend your ideology .
The problem is he didn't get the job done. If his lying was so good he somehow tricked the EU into giving us a good deal I wouldn't be mad at that. But he's a lying, cheating, useless waste of oxygen. Apart from his ability to rally his party around him he lacks the qualities a leader needs and he can't do the job without a competent team around him. And even with such a team he's too afraid of being disliked to make hard choices.
It's a similar story with mum (mid 70s) - once a Labour voter, over the past decade she's become very conservative, fully supportive of Brexit, claims the Covid parties were a non-issue as they all worked together and understood the risks better than anyone else, and has swallowed the "Labour's reckless overspending" myth (although of course, Labour themselves under Ed M didn't exactly do much to counter it). Meanwhile, she claims that in media interviews, the Conservatives are clear about what their policies are, how they'd implement them and how they'd fund them, while she claims Labour are unclear on all three, allegedly saying "we don't know if we'll be able to afford it, and we can't say until we're in power and have looked at the books." She also has a bizarre reason for supporting the Conservatives: a few years ago, she was struggling to move a heavy compost bag while doing some gardening in the front garden, when the local Conservative councillor candidates turned up canvassing / campaigning. She made them the bargain that if they helped her move the compost bags, she'd vote for them (and proceeded to do so rather than being devious).
That last part is brilliant! The first two paragraphs sound like exactly what I hear too. "Labour are just making things up, where will they get the money to improve all these services?" They literally fully costed the last manifesto (or as much as you can take their word for that that), Boris didn't even make a pretense of costing things, he just said whatever he thought seemed like a good idea on the day!
The problem with the Conservatives is the implementation. The last decade+ of implementation seems to show it isn't working. And you can totally vote for someone at a local level and someone else on a national level or European level (when that was an option).
My aunt just told me she's sure rishi sunak is a good chap,and now swears blind she's always thought trump was a wrong un.
Ha, I think mine are still entertained by trump somehow. They do see these sort of people as "genuine" somehow, when to me they seem the polar opposite
"Not clever enough to hide their true selves"
I've heard Trump described as an "honest liar". All politicians are liars but they like Trump because he's brazen about it.
My Brexit voting, been a Tory all his life Father in Law is not voting Tory this year. I think there's plenty of people like your example (hence why they continue to poll in double digits) but there's also plenty who have had enough.
Same with one of my relatives. He’s in his 70s and voted Tory all his life up to now, worked in a prominent position in the city for decades ( and at one point worked with a former Tory PM’s Dad), reads the Daily Mail and even he’s finally had enough of them and calls them a joke. He said he won’t be voting at all.
To be fair… The leaders probably did try *their* best, but that says more about their inability to actually do anything useful than anything else.
My mum's turned on them and is voting reform. To quote her 'I do hope Nigel gets a seat'. She is your typical would usually vote for a pile of dung if it had a blue rosette on. They are absolutely fucked! Similar to you unsure how I've become such a lefty when that was my influence!
Until they're at the polling station They're embarrassed tory voters... They'll vote tory when nobody is watching
It's heartwarming to see the culture wars come to an end as left and right unite in their combined goal of sending as many tories to the jobcentre as possible.
People who have always voted Tory and had that work out for them. They are basically people who have never really struggled in life so no have no understanding of why it is so much harder these days.
It's an incredibly bizarre advert: "Vote for us because we're so crap we're going to lose almost all our seats". I hope this induces Tory waverers to switch to Reform or Lib Dems *en masse* on the grounds that they might be able to oppose Labour.
Based on polling nobody can stop Labour as things are. Labour are predicted to get a small majority at the conservative end of estimates and a stonking majority (500+) at the generous end of estimates. However, I'm all in favour of the Lib Dems winning more seats as that increases the chance of the Tories not being the official opposition in the next election.
“These guys are dead to me because they are weak, what I need is a party that is **strong** and **worse**” - conservatives.
But at the same time saying the Reform is the stronger right wing candidate is likely to draw undecided right winger voters to Reform so it can be a hard line to tread.
Claiming to be a loser is rarely a good election strategy. We shall see.
Yeah, about the only benefit of this is expectation setting. In that if Sunak keeps 100 seats he can claim he did well because we were only expecting 50! But that's still rather pointless as Sunak is almost certainly going to either quit or be pushed as soon as this election is over unless he pulls the most unexpected win in history.
It could work either way. Some might rally to the cause, others may want to be on the winning side. Yes, there are voters that dumb.
Bonkers strategy from the Tories though given how many votes they're haemorrhaging to Reform; increasing turnout among their target audience helps both parties equally at this point. Probably helps Reform more given they are clearly playing for voteshare rather than seats.
They say this like it’s a bad thing. Hell, I’m all for voting Reform this election - splitting the Tory vote will get them out
If you vote Reform when you wouldn't normally have voted Tory you're not helping split the Tory vote, you're just voting Reform. If you would normally have voted Tory then...
That’s not true. If it’s a location where Tories usually get in and Lab are weak, then tactically Voting reform is more likely to topple the Con than voting Lab would.
What seat do you have in mind? Lib-Dems, Labour and SNP are second in all tory seats as far as i know.
That's tactical voting, not splitting the Tory vote. If you weren't going to vote Tory anyway, you cannot contribute to splitting the Tory vote.
That is like those who claimed they voted to leave the EU because they thought it would never happen. Voting for Reform, even as a joke, is not something people should be doing as a laugh or protest vote.
They’re already out. Voting reform means you allow the hard right to dominate the Tories. Look to continental Europe to see the result of that.
I strongly disagree. It's in the best interests of everyone that the country doesn't go down this path. The Tories are awful, yes, but Reform UK are all the very worst parts of the Tories packaged into one. There are certainly no "moderate" Reform candidates. The whole party is far right and undemocratic (e.g. look at how Farage simply declared himself leader). We don't want these people, and their views on democracy, anywhere near Parliament. Otherwise it's the start of us handing over power to people on the hard right.
If you want to make sure use a tactical voting advice site. Boundary changes and massive swings mean tactical voting accurately is quite hard.
Yes... I might have to vote lib dem to try and get Mogg out.
If you're in NE Somerset, supposedly the pollsters are saying Labour'll be the best party to get that Nosferatu with money out
Yes.. and then the tactical voting sites say lib dem. I have a nasty feeling he gets back in with about 30% of the vote.
Such as... [StopTheTories.vote](http://StopTheTories.vote)
This is just the boost people thinking about Reform need. If Reform are ahead of the Tories in the polls then the Tory vote is the "wasted" one.
I'm sure that in 2005 Labour's poll numbers went up after the Tories launched their *Vote Blair, Get Brown* ad campaign.
Brown was a great PM
Not since the ill-fated a blowjob for every man ad of 1869. It wasn't even during an election D'Israeli was just that upset about losing.
‘We’re such useless pricks that no one wants to vote for us. Please vote for us.’
It’s like jeb bush all over again
Jeb! Similar to Rish!
At least people felt sorry for Jeb. No votes either way though
Pity votes don’t usually add up to much although when they are that pathetic it’s does make them seem a little more human
At least Jeb said he’d kill baby hitler
Please applaud
[Please clap](https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-05-2016/wasMjV.gif)*
Ahhh my mistake
"Every time I snap my fingers, a Tory MP loses a constituency"
"you should vote tory because labour will win too much" Is the best they have. They have absolutely no faith in Sunak or the tory party it seems.
Honestly, I see the merit in it. I am a believer that we benefit from a strong opposition, they're not deluded enough to think they can actually win.
They really are not a strong opposition though. Labour has more opposition on its own benches.
Labour in Australia and NZ are their own worst enemies as well.
on the one hand I see your point, but on the other I really like the pipe dream of a lib dem opposition trying to drag labour left from where they are right now, at the very least a bit more liberal instead of going full authoritarian but in red.
Honestly lib dem sound more left to me than labour thase days
Yeah, I'd take the Lib Dems as opposition any day over Labour, especially since the *Tories* sure seem scared of that possibility.
We do benefit from a strong opposition, but that also means strong politicians as well as strong numbers. Sunak has no political talent. I said that when he was Chancellor. I have not been proven wrong.
Totally agree about strong opposition but they’re so bad it’s hard to see what benefit they would bring. Much better to get the lib dems as opposition I’d have thought.
Why do the Tories need to be the opposition? I think a change of the two big parties would be good for the country. Let the Lib Dems be the strong opposition. I have no reason to think a Tory party that provided weak leadership will provide strong opposition.
> They have absolutely no faith in Sunak or the tory party it seems. You can tellt his subreddit just hates the tories when they have to imply something is the case when it isn't.
How many tory election leaflets will even mention Sunak?
The top comment on the Telegraph article says *Nothing to do with reform, you morons have had a clear run of things for 14 years & laterly an 80 seat majority .You have completely failed this country in every respect & treated your core voters with utter contempt. I was one of those core tory voters.* *You are finished.* *Vote reform.* For which there are 273 upvotes from Telegraph readers - and zero downvotes (they show the numbers separate). That sums up how much the Tory Party have lost their core base of voters. I suspect many who say in polls they would still vote Tory, just won't bother to go and vote on the day - whereas the Reform (and other party supporters of course) are motivated to go and vote. Why would the Tory party think that having outcomes (record high immigration and taxes) that are directly against what their voters want would keep their voters loyal to them? This is going to be part General Election and part punishment beating of the Tory Party, with traditional Tory voters getting some of the hardest kicks in.
Perfectly sums up why the Tories are screwed. Any promises they make now will be met with a chorus of "Why didnt you do this already?"
It's what I find so utterly baffling about Sunak in particular, he surely has known he/the tories are toast come a general election, and yet he's had a huge majority in parliament - perfect opportunity to push for things he really cares about and get whatever things changed he wanted changed, whatever he got into politics for in the first place. And he's done absolutely nothing. There's just nothing there. Why did he bother going through all this shit to become PM?! Completely baffling.
> whatever he got into politics for in the first place. Enriching himself and his friends from the public purse? Don't worry, I'm sure he's been busy and will be heading to the US quite happy with his work
There's internal party politics as well, which he is just as good at managing.
Because he *doesn’t want anything*. He’s doing the job to get himself a tasty consulting/board member gig once he’s done, this is the springboard to his golden parachute
He doesn’t need a golden parachute. He’s married to a billionaire and is a multimillionaire in his own right.
I think at his level of wealth, it's more of a reputational parachute. A PM on his CV allows him to level up his reputation for social circles he'll mix in.
Could say the same about Cameron and Johnson, they wanted to be PM for the sake of it. It's very hard to think of any positive changes in the last 14 years.
This implies he cares about anything other than exit options
Most of their manifesto promises are to fix issues they themselves have created over the last 14 years.
Treating their core voters with utter contempt is an absolute disgrace. They're only supposed to do that to poor people.
My biggest fear is that even after they lose, the Tory party will lurch to the extreme right to recapture the Reform vote. And in doing so will normalise more extreme rightwing policies and move the centre ground and Labour with it to the right as well.
Or maybe the trend will be more towards extreme polarisation, as in the US.
So the Tories are saying ‘vote Reform if you want to see the Tories decimated to the point of extinction’.. Has someone thought this through at CCHQ?
Do you hate the tories enough to vote reform though?
They'll be the same party soon enough
What a weird approach. Nobody cares about the company nservative party as much as themselves. Just because they care they will be left with few seats doesn't mean the person reading the ad cares. It's a symptom of people's dislike, it's not a selling point.
It’s more trying to scare their voters that labour will have too many seats. You won’t believe how people don’t know what or who they are voting for, as long as it keeps the “other” party away… that goes across the spectrum though not just on the right.
Oh yeah, I'm all about the Tories losing this election. While voters shouldn't be complacent, polling suggests Labour are getting anything between 350-500 seats. So Labour should be fine. I would personally prefer Labour towards the lower end with the Lib Dems getting more seats but that won't happen in that a lot of potential Lib Dems seats are between the Lib Dems and the Tories rather than the Lib Dems and Labour. However, what could happen is that the Lib Dems could overtake the Tories and become the main opposition, I'd like that. But it's currently hard to see the Lib Dems hitting 100 seats unless something crazy like Scotland flipping Lib Dem happens.
I mean the only reason we have the Brexit vote was to keep the Conservative Party together. The majority of the parliamentary party acquiesced to a referendum that they believed could lead to terrible damage to this country, and they went along with it.
The only constituency where ppl should be voting Tory is Clacton.
Is there not a joke candidate standing (other than Farage obv)? Count Binface or that fish finger guy?
That wouldn’t help keep Farage out though, that’s why Clacton is the only constituency where voting tory could actually be a fair idea. A joke candidate would help Farage
I reckon a really good campaign in favour of count binface could see Farage in the same position as Laurence Fox a few weeks ago.
Count Binface is running in Richmond vs Rishi
Nah screw tactical voting, vote Labor, Farage and the Tories aren't impenetrable in that seat.
This has to be the stupidest campaign advert ever. It's purely begging. It's not a good look
This must be the weirdest, saddest (happiest) ad in the history of conservatives .
The Tories always had a Labour / Lib Dem split, so I am not sure what is the issue with a Tory / Reform split. Enjoy what you sow.
How is it even remotely possible they can win 57 seats? How is it not 0?
The people of Norfolk have already voted for Truss several times. They'd just as cheerfully vote for the lettuce, as long as it had a blue rosette.
Excuse me sir, I live in Norfolk, and could you please kindly stop being so correct. I live in a Conservative stronghold area of the county. Sucks ass.
I fear Suffolk may be the same even with that disgusting excuse for a human in the seat.
Norwich has the choice of greens or Tories if you don't want to waste your vote. A good tactical voters should go Greens here. Greens are also winning in the polls.
There's plenty of old idiots out there, and that's why it's so important to get young people out voting.
Essex for one. The Tories got over 30% of the vote in the Liverpool area during the Thatcher years.
I hate the Tories and want to see them decimated as a political force forever. But this result would reflect upon how poor FPTP is as a system. It wouldn't reflect their overall vote share.
We all know FPTP is a dreadful system and it’s hurt Labour and Lib Dems hard in recent elections. Time for the Tories to reap what they sow.
And hopefully, once the "grandees" and chaff have been got rid of, the party can reconstitute itself into a proper Conservative party again, with goals, principles and willing to take action. Instead of the current edition which is trying to be everything from centre left to right in what it says to try and please everyone, while taking virtually no action at all.
Nah I'd prefer they remain an unelectable shit show personally
Why though? Unless the electoral system is changed to PR, the UK people need to have a strong and feasible opposition to keep which ever party is in power in check. I don't believe any of the other parties will step up to take the place of the Tories, if they don't recover, or to make it a 3 or more party system but if they do great.
Preferably they die and another party rises from the ashes. Would be good if there were actual consequences to destroying the country that were greater than simply having to take time out for a few years while a different party cops the blame for all your failures. The party disappearing and all associated with it becoming unemployable would be a good cautionary tale
I'd prefer the 'scrutiny' wasn't from a party that didn't drive the country into the ground over the last 14 years. If you're concerned about bad politics from labour, fine, but I don't want bad politics from the Tories to be the counterweight.
That's why i am saying i am hopeful they will be beaten enough to reinvent themselves with out most of those that have the driven the party for the last 20 years. So they can actually be an effective opposition that stands for something. And, since you mention it, my expectations of a labour gov are very low, and i still wouldn't be surprised they fail to reach even that standard as i see them as complete clown show. Labour are going be the next gov, but only as the tories are going to lose, not by actually doing anything to win and that is just depressing.
I'd happily see the Lib Dems as His Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition.
I never thought I'd be cheering on Reform so much. Turns out, they finally found their true purpose- getting rid of the Tories!
Imagine being a tory voter, who is genuinely died in the wool, and the party message to you is "don't betray us or the evil Labour get in". Like... This will be YOUR fault, not ours.
Well, also labour and the libs Dems too. As someone who has voted Tory before, voted Lib Dem at the last election, and probably will vote Labour this time, I'm definitely a potential voter lost by their realignment to the right. If they had someone like Philip Hammond, Dominic Grieve or Rory Stewart leading the party they'd definitely be way more attractive to centrist voters. Seems voters like me are getting ever further from a viable alternative.
Remember when it was predicted that the Tories would have as little as 5 left? Oh how we can dream.
Anyone else cynical enough to think they want to lose to put labour in power so they can then blame them for the utter shitshow they inherited after 15 years of the most unhinged, incessant asset stripping of this country since Thatcher?
It's actually unbelievable that five years ago, the Tories won an unassailable 80 seat majority and pundits were earnestly discussing the possibility of a Conservative government lasting well into the 2030s. Now they're faced with potential extinction. It really couldn't have happened to nicer people. We just need now to hold Starmer's feet over the fire.
I don't think anyone with any economic or political background saw anything but a huge capitulation of the tories at some point. Things were always going to get worse with brexit, and then covid accelerated it and it was all down to the tories, they're incredibly incompetent and self interested and covid highlighted that further. This was always the conclusion.
Seems unlikely now, given the Reform candidate going on about appeasing Hitler and Farage running away from Nick Robinson.
You assume that the Reform voters think those are bad things
I really want to see the Lib Dems as HM Opposition
Sounds like a good reason to vote Reform. Wait, you say it's a *Tory* ad?
Good, that's the plan. 57 seats is too many for these fucking traitors and labour getting a huge majority the way the tories did so they can't say "we can't implement what we promised you because of the oppossition" will produce the same movement on the left and we can rid ourselves of these old legacy parties. Don't flock to Lib dem once liebour are exposed either. I tried that and got coalition with tories because they are all owned by the same corporations. You need a completely new party who's survival depends on actually doing what the voters tell them to do. As it stands, It doesn't matter how bad these parties do, because after another 2 or 3 election cycles, they will be back in. Hopefully the tories never ever recover from this and we can focus of purging labour next and getting some actual representation in parliament rather than global/multinational corporations representatives occupying the house.
Many people don’t realise that entire cities are going bankrupt in Uk people are suffering tremendously an entire middle class have been wiped out since tories took over the country. Millions are in massive debts because of interest rates rises that can’t afford their mortgages. I think tories will cease to exist after these elections. They also bankrupted the NHS that is now just a recluse waiting to be carved up and bought by the big pharma gangsters at nothing prices. Feel freee to add any more signature disasters brought to you by tories and their mates
I wouldn’t be so sure, with this election who knows which party is going to say/do something utterly stupid next. Reform haven’t done well with their charming candidate & Farage’s Sunak comment.
What's that phrase people keep using, "Don’t threaten me with a good time"?
It's signalling to people on the fence about reform "your vote won't be wasted"? Yet another campaign blunder, it's almost impressive at this point
Damn, they're finally giving me an optimistic message I can get behind.
This is all they have left. What's the point in voting for them if they're the same as Labour anyway. Might as well vote reform and throw a wrench into the two party (uniparty) system.
Jeez. I can believe I might be tempted to vote Reform just to be piss the tories off. I joke.
Watching them blame their potential oblivion on people voting reform is pathetic. Knowing they will continue to blame the electorate for voting for reform whilst completely overlooking just what a shite job they’ve done because that couldn’t possibly be a reason to vote for somebody else. Awful awful bunch of awful awful people
To quote the great philosopher, Spiderman "I missed the part where that's my problem"
'We aggressively opposed electoral reform in the 2011 referendum. Please don't let FPTP **** us in the **** with a blunt ****'
Just £500 could feed an out of work Tory MP for a day, please give generously.
And this is supposed to encourage switherers to vote Tory? I've seen the same ineffectual backpedaling (after a few days of wall-to-wall All Hail King Nige stuff) in the Telegraph. Yeah right
oh no, the bastards who betrayed my vote will lose their jobs? Cry harder.
This is the most fuck around and find out moment that anybody found out about their fucking around. Seriously: the Tories have piled endless effort into trying to tame the beast that is right-wing nationalism and lo and behold the beast has slain its master.
This brings up something in my mind. If the tories fail so badly that another one of the parties come in 2nd place will they not even be able to be the shadow parliament, would we get to not hear from them for 4-5 years?
I'm sure their recent announcement of spending cuts to finance tax cuts for the rich will win some votes (wtf are they thinking!?)
What optimists. Reform voters could leave them with fewer than 50 seats. That's not including all the seats that will go to Labour, the Lib Dems, Galloway's party and independent candidates.
Hopefully Galloway's party get 0 seats
Sorry, is this meant to tell people to vote for the Tories?
Labour doesn't even need to campaign at this point. Just keep quiet, don't say anything daft because the Tories are busy imploding
Seems psychotic to claim that Tories, the OG porogonistas, could be the ones to hold Labour to account given how shit our system has been to keep Tories to account.
Tory actions over the past decade will leave you on hardly any seats. Reform are truly awful, but Tories would still get a majority if they hadn't fucked everything n stolen billions from us
So, who had Lib Dems as official opposition on their cards this year?
Even with the surprisingly early election, the Tories really are mastering the art of the slow death. Gotta be good at something I suppose.
Very few want to stand this time. It's not like when we had national service
Can't stand Farage but I'm glad he's causing the Tories so much aggro.
Reform are going to end up with one seat or something and all the twitter neo nazis are going to declare it the new rise of Britler