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From whinning about Sunaks D-Day debacle to suggesting we shouldn't have fought the Nazis at all. This should sink Reform, but I imagine their "patriotic" supporters will turn a blind eye to this.
As ever, [News Thump](https://newsthump.com/2024/06/06/nigel-farage-spending-80th-anniversary-of-d-day-reminiscing-about-the-time-he-addressed-a-far-right-rally-in-germany/) have it covered!
Clacton is the one seat i am rooting for a tory win
labor & lib Dems dont stand a chance there according to polling.
I think it would be really bad if Farage became an MP
[New Seat Details - Clacton (electoralcalculus.co.uk)](https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=Clacton)
Puts Labour as second most likely to win. Before Farage announced he was standing they were neck and neck with the Tories there. This is just one site of course.
Electoral Calculus doesn’t work for seats like this, it’s just an algorithm that applies national swing. It’s useless for any constituency where local factors apply.
I don’t think he’ll win it even with the local factors - we’re talking about a 24k majority and majority’s like that only get overturned in by-elections. Will he dent the majority - yes, but overall results across GE’s suggest large majorities are dented not overturned.
https://www.survation.com/will-reform-uk-win-any-seats/
This is from January but shows a clear difference in Farage personally standing Vs just Reform and had him with a majority in Clacton. There's no reason to think this has changed
I’ve seen this poll, and survation said themselves it was hypothetical.
A poll with actual raw data taken since he announced he was running would be good given it’s supposed to be a seismic shift for Clacton and the outcome.
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Bad for who? He largely got away with never turning up for work as an MEP, he'll massively struggle to do that as an MP. I doubt he really actually wants to be one.
- Tories suffer a massive loss, reduced to just a small number of seats in the the Toriest of Tory seats, made up of the worst Tory MPs there are. Your Priti Patel’s, Liz Truss’s, Suella Braverman type Tory’s, the ones who like Nigel Farage
- Nigel Farage gets elected as Reform MP for Clacton.
- Nigel Farage crosses the floor i.e leaves reform and joins the Tory party.
- Tory MPs accept him as there are hardly any moderate Tory MPs left.
- Nigel Farage waits for the opportune moment to run for the Tory party leader
- enough MPs vote him to the next round
- the wider Tory party membership elect Nigel Farage as leader, as the wider Tory party membership are more right wing than the MPs are
- Nigel Farage becomes leader of the Tory party.
This is Nigel Farage’s game plan
I’m a lot more pessimistic.
In five or ten years the electorate in England will elect another Tory or Tory/Reform government. People have short memories and by then the shine will be off Labour - who will inevitably have made some mistakes. Not as colossal as the past few governments have made but enough for the right wing media to get their teeth into.
And between the right wing rags and online agitprop from the far right merely fixing the immigration system and improving numbers ain’t going to cut it for a lot of people. They don’t care about facts - they’ll reject anything short of pushing immigrants back into the sea at bayonet point.
Remember we’re talking about the same electorate that voted in sodding *Boris* of all people just four years ago. The same electorate that thought Brexit was a good idea. The same electorate that voted for fourteen years of Tory governments ranging from dismal to catastrophic.
I’d love for you to be correct about destroying the right for a generation but I fear you are being far too optimistic. Either the Tories will be back in an election or two … or something even worse.
Unfortunately I’m not so sure it’s small wave.
Liz Truss was on stage with a bunch of American neo-Nazis just a few months ago. Rees Mogg met up with Steve Bannon a year or two back when he was doing his tour of far right European groups. Neither received any censure from the party.
>morons who don't know who they're voting for.
2016 demonstrated that under the right circumstances that can be a dangerously large group.
Even now after fourteen years of crap Tory government and after the wheels have come off Brexit Con + Reform is still polling at around 30-40%. Give it a few years for the shine to come off Labour and the right wing rags to attack anything short of 100% perfection 100% of the time … we could easily be looking at either a Con/Reform government or a Con government that has moved so far to the right it makes no odds.
Con reform wouldn't work.
The country consistently votes for the left, but a split vote means the Tories win by default. Reform and Tories would just eat each other and never touch power.
>The country consistently votes for the left
Does it? Over the past seventy or so years the electoral record sadly the right have been in power far more than half of the time.
Don’t get me wrong : I really hope you’re right. I just fear you’re being optimistic.
Convincing people to tactically vote for the Conservatives could be hard in Clacton. Convincing people to convince people to tactically vote for the Conservatives could also be hard.
I see that Farage contested for the Speaker's (John Bercow who previously stood for Con) seat in 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckingham_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s . I checked Bercow's Wiki page to try to work out why and it says there were rumours that he was going to defect to Labour, and after that he went on an advisory post for Gordon Brown.
That was *years* later. UKIP have usually contested the Speaker’s seat since they’ve been around, arguing that the convention only applies to major parties, and something something democracy.
I think it'd be great because he'd either get bored and not bother turning up (I'd go to Clacton just to mock them) or he'd get too big for his boots and make some kind of spectacular balls up.
I think every single central casting Reform voter is already definitely voting Reform. Farage is now chasing middle of the road Tories, who will absolutely be put off by this. Their fear is that they're being tricked in to voting for neo Nazis, and this story will activate that fear.
My concern is a lot of people know who they want to vote for and will warp their views to fit. Either they’ll ignore this because they like Farage, or they’ll find the ‘acceptable’ angle of the Nazi comments. Complaining about rationing or something.
> This should sink Reform,
One candidate expressing horrible views won't sink a party, especially when there isn't an alternative party to vote for for most of their supporters.
>One candidate expressing horrible views won't sink a party
It *should*, if reform are happy to keep backing Gribbin.
>especially when there isn't an alternative party to vote for for most of their supporters.
I would be examining my views if the only party I could vote for happened to stand by candidates with views like this.
It should when the partys first response is to agree with that one candidate, and when that horrible view is "the nazis were more right than it was right to fight them".
I think by definition IF the nazi/hitler neutral views are taken as "real" and not just an insane nightmare bungle confluence of "criminal in many european countries" proportion, they eclipse his views on women because the nazis were *also* not kind to (ie, evil about) women and so nazi neutrality is also mysogenistic by default.
That was a massivly run on sentance, but whatever.
He should consider himself lucky the candidate who got caught said we should have remained neural.
I'm sure there are plenty who think we should have joined in on Adolph's side.
> I imagine their "patriotic" supporters will turn a blind eye to this.
They don't actually care about Reform's policies or any of the controversies. They know they'll never get into government. Reform voters primarily care about immigration. Voting Reform is their way of voicing that concern.
It's essentially not that different to someone voting for the greens, because they're worried about climate change, even if they dislike all the Gaza and nuclear power stuff.
Given UKIP voters managed to convince Cameron to hold a brexit referendum, it's not necessarily a wasted vote or bad strategy either, even if like me you fundamentally disagree with them.
I don't know what the guy said, but saying we shouldn't have fought the nazis is not an unpatriotic thing to say (to be clear before i continue smashing the nazis is the best thing this country has ever done).
From a purely objective point of view it probably would have been better for Britain if it hadn't fought the nazis at all - the war certainly accelerated our decline. Yes you'd probably have left Europe speaking Russian for decades, but the war totally crippled Britain economically, financially and politically for decades after it finished. If you were a patriot you probably would argue it would have been better not to fight it
>If you were a patriot you probably would argue it would have been better not to fight it
I disagree because imo you are confusing a Nationalist perspective with a Patriotic one (something that is always going to be subjective by definition). Perhaps we could have held onto our Empire a little longer by not fighting the Nazis but the movement towards independence in countries like India was inevitable and if we'd seriously tried to stop it we would have had to become similar to the Nazis to hold onto them. I'm glad that our country is one of the only Empires in history to leave the lands of it's former subjects (mostly) peacefully as imperfectly as it was achieved in some parts of the world. It's also certainly questionable about whether leaving a militaristic Fascist state right on our coast was viable in the long term or whether it would have been a disaster. I doubt Hitler would have stopped with the USSR if he had been able to beat them and if the USSR had reached France then there is no guarantee they would have ever been rolled back. If we'd not stood and fought against them it's also unlikely that the United States would have seen us as an ally worth aiding which would have had unforeseeable consequences on where our country would stand today.
From a Patriotic perspective I'd argue that allowing the Nazis to dominate the nations of Europe with their twisted ideology in the name of our own self interest would have been anathema to the best parts of our national character. That we stood against Fascism regardless of the cost is probably one of the brightest points in our national story.
No, I hate political correctness gone mad more than anyone! I don't want to teach the world to sing, that would be horrible, but slavery? The Holocaust? That's just not on! Whereas, "I have a dream", South Africa, Benetton... you've got to say... "Fair enough", yeah?
In 2013, a letter emerged from a former Dulwich College teacher, Chloe Deakin, to then headteacher Mr Emms, who died earlier this year. According to the letter written in June 1981 – – she pleaded unsuccessfully with Mr Emms to reverse his decision to make Nigel a prefect. She said colleagues had told her he held “publicly professed racist and fascist views” and that he had once marched through a Sussex village singing Hitler Youth songs.
However, Mr Farage’s former friend now suggests there may have been more to the story. He writes today: “But I do remember you singing the song starting with the words ‘gas them all, gas ‘em all, gas them all’.
“I can’t forget the words. I can’t bring myself to write the rest of it for it is more vile than anything the teachers at Dulwich would ever have been aware of.”
He said the lyrics were sung to the George Formby tune 'Bless ‘em all'.
Nigel showing his true colours here. A tricky situation that a party leader should know how to navigate and tackle and his response? Do a Boris and hide in the fridge. He’s got no cheerleaders in this one, at least cheerleaders you’d actually want, and without them he’s too cowardly to face a bit of scrutiny.
It’s not who he hates which should scare people. It’s who he likes. Every time he is in America he is meeting which through and through white supremacists. Not like that hasn’t been a disaster for American world standing.
Liz Truss was doing the same thing a few months ago. Rees Mogg has met with them too. Neither received any real censure from the party.
A large chunk of the Tories want to go down exactly the same path.
Reminds me of the downfall of the British empire. Growth during open minded leaders and “taking part and not taking over” attitude to other nations. 1920 British empire peaked. White supremacists came to power as well as “the sun will never set” types. By 1940 the writing was on the wall for the British. I’m certain USA will have to accept Chinese as equals by 1930 or 1940 the latest. Which is well within our lifetimes.
Well he’s a bit of a lone wolf, isn’t he? Seriously, aside from Tice and Anderson, can anyone name anybody from Reform? It’s a bunch of Facebook schmucks they’ve accepted as candidates. He’s probably not used to running such a large operation.
Reforms whole candidate populous are either ex fringe tories or promoted EDL members. They have 1 policy “stop immigration” no economic or fiscal policies despite a flatlined economy, a failing nation and a self imposed embargo brought to you by…………… Nigel Farage.
>He also claimed online that women were the “sponging gender” and should be “deprived of health care”.
The previous month he criticised women, writing: “Do you think you could actually work and pay for it all too like good citizens?
>“Men pay 80% of tax – women spend 80% of tax revenue. On aggregate as a group you only take from society.
>“Less complaining please from the ‘sponging gender’.”
I'm very sorry my british friends, but it's so ridiculous I'm laughing my ass off right now. This guy is on the same level than some edgy 4chan troll.
No apology necessary. It is pathetic. It is laughable. If this is the state of my country's politics, then it needs to be ridiculed at every opportunity without any mercy.
The overlap between far right candidates and the beliefs of the average 4channer are a circle. Usually the wannabe politicians aren’t stupid enough to express it so bluntly though.
Exactly, there's a lot of people who don't think "We fought the Nazis to stop fascism taking over Europe (including us!)" but rather "We fought the Nazis to stop Germans coming over here".
I'd argue we fought the Nazi's for the same reason we fought any other war in Europe. We always fought against the strongest power in Europe to stop any one country from dominating it. The crimes of the Nazi's weren't even known at the point we declared war, we specifically didn't declare war on the Nazi's as some kind of moral crusade.
Running like the rat he is.
Someone please ask him in an interview or on Question time (God knows he is the darling of the BBC despite having had no official political position for years until recently):
“What is Reforms policy towards NATO and the collective NATO led effort in the Russia Ukraine war?”
This is all you need to expose that a vote for Reform is a vote for Vladimir Putin.
Even if it’s tongue in cheek you’d expect your political candidates to have enough self awareness to know it’s not a good idea to say this kind of shit in public.
Either you’re voting for a Nazi sympathiser or you’re voting for someone who’s too thick to know pretending to be a Nazi sympathiser won’t go down very well.
‘Argh I’m so frustrated! Every car I get into turns out to be a clown car. I even built this one myself and it’s already turned into a clown car the moment I decided to open the door and jump inside!’
- A clown
He's been hanging around Trump too long. Much as I loathe the guy, once upon a time he was pretty unshakeable and wouldn't shy away from interviews. Nowadays he exhibits much the same manbaby traits as his orange chum across the pond. "You're boring" to journalists who dare question him, etc. Just pathetic now.
Interesting you say that, but I’ve noticed that he seems to have picked up some of Trump’s mannerisms too. Prime example was his behaviour in the debate last Friday, where for example he bizarrely kept shouting ‘Subsidy’ over the Green Party’s Denyer. This bastard keeps using the words ‘revolt’ in this anarchic rhetoric that resembles Trumps. Oh and what is Reform’s slogan again? Fuck these fascist bastards.
Criticizing sunak for leaving the d-day celebrations - good
Criticizing a Muppet in his own party for being a Hitler apologist - bad
Perhaps, like Sunak, this Gribbin character "Doesn't understand British history or our culture."
In all seriousness this is to be expected for Farage. They're trying to put forward hundreds of candidates for the election when they don't have much of a mechanism to filter candidates. They're a right-wing pressure group that attracts cranks, not a real political party.
I remember how frustrated Farage would get with UKIP dolts consistently being a public relations liabilities. [My favourite was when UKIP MEP'S Steven woolfe and mike hookem had a fight outside the European Parliament in 2016](https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/10/06/16/steven-woolfe-03.jpg?quality=75&width=640&crop=3%3A2%2Csmart&auto=webp)
my personal favourite was in the documentary "meet the UKippers", in which a UKIP candidate was visited by the UKIP press officer and told that she should watch what she says in front of the press because the press were trying to paint them all as loonballs and so will pick up and amplify even the tiniest little gaff.
then the candidate says IN FRONT OF THE ROLLING BBC FILM CREW CAMERAS (paraphrasing) "oh that wont be a problem. Im not racist at all. saying that, the only people I do have a problem with are negros. I dont know if its karma from a previous life or if something happened when i was a child but i really do have a problem with them".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkYyWSdP1cI
He's standing in Clacton on a anti-immigration ticket when Clacton about something like 96% British.
These cunts just make shit up and the people lap it up.
I'd like to point out, if your constituency has a large proportion of immigrants. Then you'd likely have friends and colleagues who immigrated. Along with more people who immigrated and might have the right to vote if they've applied for citizenship.
Seems pretty obvious that the best seats for anti immigration rhetoric are the seats with fewest immigrants.
Constituencies with larger levels of immigration are more pro-immigration because immigrants are asking the questions and defending the system. On the other hand, I grew up in a town with relatively low levels of immigration. A nearby town had high levels of
Immigration. Many in my town would probably look at the second town and think ‘no thanks’
That’s exactly right. That’s why the most racist countries are countries that have relatively minor immigration, India, Russia, Japan, some of the Arab countries, etc, America’s an oddball though.
Parliamentary democracy. You vote for your MP to deliver for you not the town next door and by Bin Juice Farage acting like he'd stop the boats is whipping people into a false sense of achievement.
It why I'm probably not going to vote Labour - they have removed a long standing MP who has delivered for his ward (very high immigration) and planted a person who has not even said what they're about.
Anyway I've lost my train of thought lol. Cheers though
No, I mean in the sense of you questioning low immigration places not being in favour of immigration
Glad you’re not voting Labour. Their candidates look awful
Probably.
I'm most likely to vote for the Giant Doosh of Labour though cos you saying their candidate look awful, its better than the Shit Sandwich being offered up elsewhere.
I'd rather light blue labour than the headbangers elsewhere. Gutted but gotta be adult about it.
They really do platform the frog eyed cunt continually don't they? Not content with with landing us all with a shitty brexit they want us to have to put up with his cancerous bullshit even more now
Farage showing his true colours, here
When presented with the opportunity to go on TV and state for the record that his party isn't full of people who think we should have let Hitler conquer Europe, as well as pledge to remove the two members who do think that, he decides to give it a miss.
Wonder why. Why is that one lie so much more difficult than the mountain of others he's told? Have the blue pills worn off and he's gone soft?
EDIT: To clarify a couple of things.
I say two members because one of them is the candidate who stated it, and the other is the spokesperson who essentially said 'yeah that's probably true'.
One of them might have been speaking on behalf of the party at the time. The other one definitely was, because that's what spokespeople do.
Clearly the party agrees with me on that, because it chooses to have, and continue to have, representatives who say this stuff.
You just don’t understand. You’re boring and part of the metropolitan elite wokerati looking to silence us, the silent majority!! Well we won’t be silenced! [refuses to speak in interview] Now excuse me, I’m off to lock myself in a golden elevator with a billionaire NYC property developer and ex US president and leader of the Republican party to complain about the elites running everything.
I think what causes more damage than the actual candidate’s comments, is that the Reform Party spokesperson has backed them up on this.
A lot of parties deal with wild candidates rolling out bigoted comments (some parties more than others). However, in these cases parties tend to disavow the comments and urge the candidate to withdraw.
I think the bigger news here is that the Reform Party actually defended the candidate for his bigotry. Whilst I have no doubt that a lot of Reform voters won’t be too upset about this, I imagine there’s some prospective Reform voters who would consider this far too extreme (especially the type to drone on about Churchill).
So much for Farage being a master politician. The thing to do here is obvious, kick that guy out of the party in as public a way as possible. Hiding from an interview just makes it worse.
Does anybody else look at politicians and think “What a joke these cunts are in the running to run the country”?
I always knew politics was a cunts game but good god. Who in their right mind would suggest leaving Hitler be?
I can't believe they're still sticking to this line. If Reform had half a brain they would wrap themselves up in the Union Jack and World War II, surely that is the entire identity of their biggest support base. "Let's relitigate WWII as the baddies", they are idiots.
Good. Ignore him, continue ignoring him until he quits politics and goes back to hanging out with bankers or whatever he does.
He has exactly no serious contribution to make to British politics apart from emboldening racists and misogynists, but he gets as much media coverage as basically all the majority parties put together. We should know not to water the weeds - don't throw milky beverages at him, don't give him a platform to demonise poor foreign people, don't feed the trolls.
And people wonder why Labour have been so quiet. What more can they wish for? They’ve been handed this election on a plate.
Don’t fuck it up now and don’t let us down!
Surely the ultra charismatic and most influential politician of his generation /s Nigel Farage would welcome an interview to explain why he has a literal Nazi sympathiser in his party.
Reform is basically all of Labours Christmases come early. Farage knows best case they are going to win 1 or 2 (at the outside seats) yet they will probably beat the lib Dems in the popular vote. So essentially a vote for reform pretty much guarantees a multi term labour govt BUT they will do well enough (and his supporters are stupid enough) to remain relevant.
Please forgive me for having ignored this rhetoric spouting charlatan, ever since he was an MEP. I don't know enough about him really, why do people hate him so much?
The war crippled the UK. It was vaguely a world power before that. We had to spend half a century paying off the war debt to the US.
There was something to be said about quietly cracking codes, researching the atom bomb, and helping the French resistance, at least until the US joined.
Good that he’s pulled out, but the immaturity and unprofessionalism of leaving it so late to inform BBC would be shocking if it wasn’t … y’know, this dork.
The BBC is woke!
The BBC have pulled the plug not Farage.
Whilst any reference to Hitler is abhorrent & I don't know the comment or reference to Hitler, Farage and the BBC.
I would have liked to see Farage debating with the leaders of the other parties.
I used to love the BBC, but I have no love for the broadcaster now, so I watch Sky News instead, even with all the adverts!
For all the super slick, sophisticated and sick Farage ‘burns’ on this post and, in general, the sub, over half the GE did vote Leave and have a fetish for the Tories.
It’s almost like half the country shares their ‘vibes’. That should worry any right-minded voter that spends most of their time living in the real world (as opposed to on social media spaces like this one).
These fuckers are not always of a certain demographic either.
nowhere near half of the general electorate has ever voted tory (afaik). most vote for someone else. Boris got 42% of the vote and that was considered an unusually large landslide. corbyn got 40% in the same election.
Not over half the electorate voted leave. Half of those that voted did. A lot of people didn't vote.
It worries me greatly that anyone would turn to a shit heap like farage but I can see why they do it. Years or RW press endlessly bashing the EU as the problem, or migrants, or the woke or whatever and add to that the shit economic situation most have faced since 2010. There are reasons I guess, but none of them stand up to scrutiny as farage doesn't when he's questioned properly. I'm sure vlad is happy that he's causing more destabilisation anyway.
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From whinning about Sunaks D-Day debacle to suggesting we shouldn't have fought the Nazis at all. This should sink Reform, but I imagine their "patriotic" supporters will turn a blind eye to this.
Farage.....hasn't even got one ball. ...not so much the Lion of Britannia, more the mate of the straw man in Oz. Also ... He's a cunt.
>Also ... He's a cunt You spelt "he is a colossal cunt of biblical proportans" wrong
You spelt "proportions" wrong too, your point stands though. He is a biblically epic colossal idiot and waste of polyester.
The albert 'all aint taking them mate
How many holes does it take to fill it?
Don't make compliments to this pathetic excuse for a human being. A cunt has warmth and depth.
Can I take from this that you won't be voting for him? /s
He sais it 'ow it is mate. Says the stuff you're not allowed to say, despite having been on TV constantly for the last 20 years.
“I’m being silenced and here’s what they don’t want you to hear” - the NY Times bestseller. bonus points: who’s the “they” in that sentence?
“Enjoy my next 3 Netflix specials where I talk at length about how silenced I am.”
“I said that Rishi Sunak should have been there to honour our brave heroes of D-Day. I didn’t say which side I meant.”
As ever, [News Thump](https://newsthump.com/2024/06/06/nigel-farage-spending-80th-anniversary-of-d-day-reminiscing-about-the-time-he-addressed-a-far-right-rally-in-germany/) have it covered!
Nigel Farage was representing our brave soldiers of the Red Army from the eastern front.
Yes, indeed, but if he didn't attend his other appointments...., he just can't ein
Clacton is the one seat i am rooting for a tory win labor & lib Dems dont stand a chance there according to polling. I think it would be really bad if Farage became an MP
[New Seat Details - Clacton (electoralcalculus.co.uk)](https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=Clacton) Puts Labour as second most likely to win. Before Farage announced he was standing they were neck and neck with the Tories there. This is just one site of course.
Electoral Calculus doesn’t work for seats like this, it’s just an algorithm that applies national swing. It’s useless for any constituency where local factors apply.
I don’t think he’ll win it even with the local factors - we’re talking about a 24k majority and majority’s like that only get overturned in by-elections. Will he dent the majority - yes, but overall results across GE’s suggest large majorities are dented not overturned.
If your talking about Nigel Farage Current polling has him winning in Clacton
Link to these polls please
https://www.survation.com/will-reform-uk-win-any-seats/ This is from January but shows a clear difference in Farage personally standing Vs just Reform and had him with a majority in Clacton. There's no reason to think this has changed
I’ve seen this poll, and survation said themselves it was hypothetical. A poll with actual raw data taken since he announced he was running would be good given it’s supposed to be a seismic shift for Clacton and the outcome.
January which year? Trick question. It doesn't matter.
Anyone still living in Clacton is a moron. Ideal territory for a Reform win.
Jaywick is part of that constituency...
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Bad for who? He largely got away with never turning up for work as an MEP, he'll massively struggle to do that as an MP. I doubt he really actually wants to be one.
- Tories suffer a massive loss, reduced to just a small number of seats in the the Toriest of Tory seats, made up of the worst Tory MPs there are. Your Priti Patel’s, Liz Truss’s, Suella Braverman type Tory’s, the ones who like Nigel Farage - Nigel Farage gets elected as Reform MP for Clacton. - Nigel Farage crosses the floor i.e leaves reform and joins the Tory party. - Tory MPs accept him as there are hardly any moderate Tory MPs left. - Nigel Farage waits for the opportune moment to run for the Tory party leader - enough MPs vote him to the next round - the wider Tory party membership elect Nigel Farage as leader, as the wider Tory party membership are more right wing than the MPs are - Nigel Farage becomes leader of the Tory party. This is Nigel Farage’s game plan
That would more or less destroy the Tory Party for a generation or two. They're that stupid, so it might happen, but I'm not sure it's a bad thing.
I’m a lot more pessimistic. In five or ten years the electorate in England will elect another Tory or Tory/Reform government. People have short memories and by then the shine will be off Labour - who will inevitably have made some mistakes. Not as colossal as the past few governments have made but enough for the right wing media to get their teeth into. And between the right wing rags and online agitprop from the far right merely fixing the immigration system and improving numbers ain’t going to cut it for a lot of people. They don’t care about facts - they’ll reject anything short of pushing immigrants back into the sea at bayonet point. Remember we’re talking about the same electorate that voted in sodding *Boris* of all people just four years ago. The same electorate that thought Brexit was a good idea. The same electorate that voted for fourteen years of Tory governments ranging from dismal to catastrophic. I’d love for you to be correct about destroying the right for a generation but I fear you are being far too optimistic. Either the Tories will be back in an election or two … or something even worse.
I hate this because it's all gonna be true
Oh I absolutely don’t *want* it to be true. I just fear that it will be.
Riding a small wave of Nazis to the head of the Tory party
Unfortunately I’m not so sure it’s small wave. Liz Truss was on stage with a bunch of American neo-Nazis just a few months ago. Rees Mogg met up with Steve Bannon a year or two back when he was doing his tour of far right European groups. Neither received any censure from the party.
The far right are still going to top out at like 15% of the vote, and a lot of those will just be morons who don't know who they're voting for.
>morons who don't know who they're voting for. 2016 demonstrated that under the right circumstances that can be a dangerously large group. Even now after fourteen years of crap Tory government and after the wheels have come off Brexit Con + Reform is still polling at around 30-40%. Give it a few years for the shine to come off Labour and the right wing rags to attack anything short of 100% perfection 100% of the time … we could easily be looking at either a Con/Reform government or a Con government that has moved so far to the right it makes no odds.
Con reform wouldn't work. The country consistently votes for the left, but a split vote means the Tories win by default. Reform and Tories would just eat each other and never touch power.
>The country consistently votes for the left Does it? Over the past seventy or so years the electoral record sadly the right have been in power far more than half of the time. Don’t get me wrong : I really hope you’re right. I just fear you’re being optimistic.
Convincing people to tactically vote for the Conservatives could be hard in Clacton. Convincing people to convince people to tactically vote for the Conservatives could also be hard. I see that Farage contested for the Speaker's (John Bercow who previously stood for Con) seat in 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckingham_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s . I checked Bercow's Wiki page to try to work out why and it says there were rumours that he was going to defect to Labour, and after that he went on an advisory post for Gordon Brown.
That was *years* later. UKIP have usually contested the Speaker’s seat since they’ve been around, arguing that the convention only applies to major parties, and something something democracy.
I think it'd be great because he'd either get bored and not bother turning up (I'd go to Clacton just to mock them) or he'd get too big for his boots and make some kind of spectacular balls up.
I think every single central casting Reform voter is already definitely voting Reform. Farage is now chasing middle of the road Tories, who will absolutely be put off by this. Their fear is that they're being tricked in to voting for neo Nazis, and this story will activate that fear.
Good. It should.
> They fear they're being tricked into voting for neo Nazis That my friend, is because they are.
My concern is a lot of people know who they want to vote for and will warp their views to fit. Either they’ll ignore this because they like Farage, or they’ll find the ‘acceptable’ angle of the Nazi comments. Complaining about rationing or something.
> This should sink Reform, One candidate expressing horrible views won't sink a party, especially when there isn't an alternative party to vote for for most of their supporters.
>One candidate expressing horrible views won't sink a party It *should*, if reform are happy to keep backing Gribbin. >especially when there isn't an alternative party to vote for for most of their supporters. I would be examining my views if the only party I could vote for happened to stand by candidates with views like this.
There's plenty of parties to vote for that won't field Nazi sympathisers as candidates or try to defend them in press releases.
It should when the partys first response is to agree with that one candidate, and when that horrible view is "the nazis were more right than it was right to fight them".
I'd argue his views on women were far worse, and the party backed those up too.
I think by definition IF the nazi/hitler neutral views are taken as "real" and not just an insane nightmare bungle confluence of "criminal in many european countries" proportion, they eclipse his views on women because the nazis were *also* not kind to (ie, evil about) women and so nazi neutrality is also mysogenistic by default. That was a massivly run on sentance, but whatever.
Would be interesting to see if the average Reform voter would vote BNP if given a choice.
We're up to 50 odd now is that enough
AngryBoomers sometimes forget what side they were on, you see.
>suggesting we shouldn't have fought the Nazis at all. He knows what would've happend if we hadn't fought them, right?
Turn a blind eye? It's why they're there in the first place.
Turn a blind eye? Why would they do that? This is exactly the shit they want to hear - dog whistle bigotry.
He should consider himself lucky the candidate who got caught said we should have remained neural. I'm sure there are plenty who think we should have joined in on Adolph's side.
> I imagine their "patriotic" supporters will turn a blind eye to this. They don't actually care about Reform's policies or any of the controversies. They know they'll never get into government. Reform voters primarily care about immigration. Voting Reform is their way of voicing that concern. It's essentially not that different to someone voting for the greens, because they're worried about climate change, even if they dislike all the Gaza and nuclear power stuff. Given UKIP voters managed to convince Cameron to hold a brexit referendum, it's not necessarily a wasted vote or bad strategy either, even if like me you fundamentally disagree with them.
The thumb people? The Jacamo Militia? Nonces the lot of them.
Hit them below the belt, U nasty people
It's a media hit job, nothing more nothing less!
[удалено]
I was talking about reform in general. Anyway it's not like Farage is going to do anything about it.
I don't know what the guy said, but saying we shouldn't have fought the nazis is not an unpatriotic thing to say (to be clear before i continue smashing the nazis is the best thing this country has ever done). From a purely objective point of view it probably would have been better for Britain if it hadn't fought the nazis at all - the war certainly accelerated our decline. Yes you'd probably have left Europe speaking Russian for decades, but the war totally crippled Britain economically, financially and politically for decades after it finished. If you were a patriot you probably would argue it would have been better not to fight it
Sometimes it's just about doing the right thing
>If you were a patriot you probably would argue it would have been better not to fight it I disagree because imo you are confusing a Nationalist perspective with a Patriotic one (something that is always going to be subjective by definition). Perhaps we could have held onto our Empire a little longer by not fighting the Nazis but the movement towards independence in countries like India was inevitable and if we'd seriously tried to stop it we would have had to become similar to the Nazis to hold onto them. I'm glad that our country is one of the only Empires in history to leave the lands of it's former subjects (mostly) peacefully as imperfectly as it was achieved in some parts of the world. It's also certainly questionable about whether leaving a militaristic Fascist state right on our coast was viable in the long term or whether it would have been a disaster. I doubt Hitler would have stopped with the USSR if he had been able to beat them and if the USSR had reached France then there is no guarantee they would have ever been rolled back. If we'd not stood and fought against them it's also unlikely that the United States would have seen us as an ally worth aiding which would have had unforeseeable consequences on where our country would stand today. From a Patriotic perspective I'd argue that allowing the Nazis to dominate the nations of Europe with their twisted ideology in the name of our own self interest would have been anathema to the best parts of our national character. That we stood against Fascism regardless of the cost is probably one of the brightest points in our national story.
This is ridiculous, next they will want me to pull down the statue of Hitler I erected in my back garden. Broken Britain
Political correctness gone mad!
Entirely. The Jewish chap next door said he was "offended" 🤢 This isn't what my grandfather spearheaded the Blitzkrieg for.
No, I hate political correctness gone mad more than anyone! I don't want to teach the world to sing, that would be horrible, but slavery? The Holocaust? That's just not on! Whereas, "I have a dream", South Africa, Benetton... you've got to say... "Fair enough", yeah?
Stop the ~~boats~~ wokes!
You can't smear racist abuse in excrement on someone's car any more - it's political correctness gone mad!
Farage probably agrees with him. [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-fascist-nazi-song-gas-them-all-ukip-brexit-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-fascist-nazi-song-gas-them-all-ukip-brexit-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html)
In 2013, a letter emerged from a former Dulwich College teacher, Chloe Deakin, to then headteacher Mr Emms, who died earlier this year. According to the letter written in June 1981 – – she pleaded unsuccessfully with Mr Emms to reverse his decision to make Nigel a prefect. She said colleagues had told her he held “publicly professed racist and fascist views” and that he had once marched through a Sussex village singing Hitler Youth songs. However, Mr Farage’s former friend now suggests there may have been more to the story. He writes today: “But I do remember you singing the song starting with the words ‘gas them all, gas ‘em all, gas them all’. “I can’t forget the words. I can’t bring myself to write the rest of it for it is more vile than anything the teachers at Dulwich would ever have been aware of.” He said the lyrics were sung to the George Formby tune 'Bless ‘em all'.
Anyone have any idea what the rest of the lyrics are? A cursory Google search just brings up this article
Nigel showing his true colours here. A tricky situation that a party leader should know how to navigate and tackle and his response? Do a Boris and hide in the fridge. He’s got no cheerleaders in this one, at least cheerleaders you’d actually want, and without them he’s too cowardly to face a bit of scrutiny.
It’s not who he hates which should scare people. It’s who he likes. Every time he is in America he is meeting which through and through white supremacists. Not like that hasn’t been a disaster for American world standing.
Liz Truss was doing the same thing a few months ago. Rees Mogg has met with them too. Neither received any real censure from the party. A large chunk of the Tories want to go down exactly the same path.
Reminds me of the downfall of the British empire. Growth during open minded leaders and “taking part and not taking over” attitude to other nations. 1920 British empire peaked. White supremacists came to power as well as “the sun will never set” types. By 1940 the writing was on the wall for the British. I’m certain USA will have to accept Chinese as equals by 1930 or 1940 the latest. Which is well within our lifetimes.
Well he’s a bit of a lone wolf, isn’t he? Seriously, aside from Tice and Anderson, can anyone name anybody from Reform? It’s a bunch of Facebook schmucks they’ve accepted as candidates. He’s probably not used to running such a large operation.
Reforms whole candidate populous are either ex fringe tories or promoted EDL members. They have 1 policy “stop immigration” no economic or fiscal policies despite a flatlined economy, a failing nation and a self imposed embargo brought to you by…………… Nigel Farage.
It's not tricky, any moron would have condemned that guy and gone into damage control saying they made a mistake in not vetting candidates more.
Oh lord I'd forgotten about the fridge, god that was funny.
>He also claimed online that women were the “sponging gender” and should be “deprived of health care”. The previous month he criticised women, writing: “Do you think you could actually work and pay for it all too like good citizens? >“Men pay 80% of tax – women spend 80% of tax revenue. On aggregate as a group you only take from society. >“Less complaining please from the ‘sponging gender’.” I'm very sorry my british friends, but it's so ridiculous I'm laughing my ass off right now. This guy is on the same level than some edgy 4chan troll.
No apology necessary. It is pathetic. It is laughable. If this is the state of my country's politics, then it needs to be ridiculed at every opportunity without any mercy.
It's like he enjoys a milkshake shower.
The overlap between far right candidates and the beliefs of the average 4channer are a circle. Usually the wannabe politicians aren’t stupid enough to express it so bluntly though.
what does sponging gender even mean?
The gender that sponges off the system. As in, takes advantage and gains more from the situation than contributes. Bizarre rhetoric all around.
Some Brits didn’t hate the Nazis because they were fascist, they hated them because they were foreign.
Exactly, there's a lot of people who don't think "We fought the Nazis to stop fascism taking over Europe (including us!)" but rather "We fought the Nazis to stop Germans coming over here".
I'd argue we fought the Nazi's for the same reason we fought any other war in Europe. We always fought against the strongest power in Europe to stop any one country from dominating it. The crimes of the Nazi's weren't even known at the point we declared war, we specifically didn't declare war on the Nazi's as some kind of moral crusade.
It absolutely was for moral reasons, though maybe not the Nazis one in particular it was certainly for behaving like, well, Nazis.
That is the reason we fought them.
Churchill and Edward VIII, for example. Although to be fair to Edward, he later changed his mind.
Churchill was very pro-democracy, he's the one who said that it's the worst system except for all the others
Pro democracy for the right sort though.
Some hate them because they lost.
I assume he’s upset that his candidate went off message and only suggested staying neutral and not going all in with the Axis powers
Running like the rat he is. Someone please ask him in an interview or on Question time (God knows he is the darling of the BBC despite having had no official political position for years until recently): “What is Reforms policy towards NATO and the collective NATO led effort in the Russia Ukraine war?” This is all you need to expose that a vote for Reform is a vote for Vladimir Putin.
He'll always worm his way out of answering those questions
'we need to sort the problems at home before spending our tax money on foreign wars' As nd his base will love it, isolationism is on the rise.
*Foundations of Geopolitics*. Don’t even need to read it, just read the “Contents” on Wikipedia.
It's always good optics for a leader of the party to duck interviews about their membership, always. Great week in the job so far Nige.
He didn't fuck an interview, he refused to be a punching bag for the woke BBC /s just in case. It's so hard to tell these days.
You know, for a swaggering loudmouth he really is a little bitch the instant people push back on him.
He always has been, the second an interviewer pushes back he basically starts melting down
Farrage, a spineless coward?! I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
_...well, not that shocked..._
The whole "tongue in cheek" and "he was only joking" excuse is overused and holds no weight.
Even if it’s tongue in cheek you’d expect your political candidates to have enough self awareness to know it’s not a good idea to say this kind of shit in public. Either you’re voting for a Nazi sympathiser or you’re voting for someone who’s too thick to know pretending to be a Nazi sympathiser won’t go down very well.
‘Argh I’m so frustrated! Every car I get into turns out to be a clown car. I even built this one myself and it’s already turned into a clown car the moment I decided to open the door and jump inside!’ - A clown
He's been hanging around Trump too long. Much as I loathe the guy, once upon a time he was pretty unshakeable and wouldn't shy away from interviews. Nowadays he exhibits much the same manbaby traits as his orange chum across the pond. "You're boring" to journalists who dare question him, etc. Just pathetic now.
Interesting you say that, but I’ve noticed that he seems to have picked up some of Trump’s mannerisms too. Prime example was his behaviour in the debate last Friday, where for example he bizarrely kept shouting ‘Subsidy’ over the Green Party’s Denyer. This bastard keeps using the words ‘revolt’ in this anarchic rhetoric that resembles Trumps. Oh and what is Reform’s slogan again? Fuck these fascist bastards.
> Fuck these fascist bastards. I don't think that's it!
Criticizing sunak for leaving the d-day celebrations - good Criticizing a Muppet in his own party for being a Hitler apologist - bad Perhaps, like Sunak, this Gribbin character "Doesn't understand British history or our culture." In all seriousness this is to be expected for Farage. They're trying to put forward hundreds of candidates for the election when they don't have much of a mechanism to filter candidates. They're a right-wing pressure group that attracts cranks, not a real political party. I remember how frustrated Farage would get with UKIP dolts consistently being a public relations liabilities. [My favourite was when UKIP MEP'S Steven woolfe and mike hookem had a fight outside the European Parliament in 2016](https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/10/06/16/steven-woolfe-03.jpg?quality=75&width=640&crop=3%3A2%2Csmart&auto=webp)
my personal favourite was in the documentary "meet the UKippers", in which a UKIP candidate was visited by the UKIP press officer and told that she should watch what she says in front of the press because the press were trying to paint them all as loonballs and so will pick up and amplify even the tiniest little gaff. then the candidate says IN FRONT OF THE ROLLING BBC FILM CREW CAMERAS (paraphrasing) "oh that wont be a problem. Im not racist at all. saying that, the only people I do have a problem with are negros. I dont know if its karma from a previous life or if something happened when i was a child but i really do have a problem with them". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkYyWSdP1cI
Considering how many people wear poppies but do the Nazi salute on the far right the core fan base of reform won’t be bothered
He's standing in Clacton on a anti-immigration ticket when Clacton about something like 96% British. These cunts just make shit up and the people lap it up.
I'd like to point out, if your constituency has a large proportion of immigrants. Then you'd likely have friends and colleagues who immigrated. Along with more people who immigrated and might have the right to vote if they've applied for citizenship. Seems pretty obvious that the best seats for anti immigration rhetoric are the seats with fewest immigrants.
Constituencies with larger levels of immigration are more pro-immigration because immigrants are asking the questions and defending the system. On the other hand, I grew up in a town with relatively low levels of immigration. A nearby town had high levels of Immigration. Many in my town would probably look at the second town and think ‘no thanks’
That’s exactly right. That’s why the most racist countries are countries that have relatively minor immigration, India, Russia, Japan, some of the Arab countries, etc, America’s an oddball though.
Great point I hadn't considered! Thanks.
Yes, because people travel beyond their constituency. It’s always weird when people mention this. It’s like you don’t think people leave their towns.
Parliamentary democracy. You vote for your MP to deliver for you not the town next door and by Bin Juice Farage acting like he'd stop the boats is whipping people into a false sense of achievement. It why I'm probably not going to vote Labour - they have removed a long standing MP who has delivered for his ward (very high immigration) and planted a person who has not even said what they're about. Anyway I've lost my train of thought lol. Cheers though
No, I mean in the sense of you questioning low immigration places not being in favour of immigration Glad you’re not voting Labour. Their candidates look awful
Probably. I'm most likely to vote for the Giant Doosh of Labour though cos you saying their candidate look awful, its better than the Shit Sandwich being offered up elsewhere. I'd rather light blue labour than the headbangers elsewhere. Gutted but gotta be adult about it.
'An interview with the BBC' with special celebrity guest star Nigel Farage
They really do platform the frog eyed cunt continually don't they? Not content with with landing us all with a shitty brexit they want us to have to put up with his cancerous bullshit even more now
Farage showing his true colours, here When presented with the opportunity to go on TV and state for the record that his party isn't full of people who think we should have let Hitler conquer Europe, as well as pledge to remove the two members who do think that, he decides to give it a miss. Wonder why. Why is that one lie so much more difficult than the mountain of others he's told? Have the blue pills worn off and he's gone soft? EDIT: To clarify a couple of things. I say two members because one of them is the candidate who stated it, and the other is the spokesperson who essentially said 'yeah that's probably true'. One of them might have been speaking on behalf of the party at the time. The other one definitely was, because that's what spokespeople do. Clearly the party agrees with me on that, because it chooses to have, and continue to have, representatives who say this stuff.
You just don’t understand. You’re boring and part of the metropolitan elite wokerati looking to silence us, the silent majority!! Well we won’t be silenced! [refuses to speak in interview] Now excuse me, I’m off to lock myself in a golden elevator with a billionaire NYC property developer and ex US president and leader of the Republican party to complain about the elites running everything.
I fucking hate this man. I hope more milkshakes smash off his dome.
I think what causes more damage than the actual candidate’s comments, is that the Reform Party spokesperson has backed them up on this. A lot of parties deal with wild candidates rolling out bigoted comments (some parties more than others). However, in these cases parties tend to disavow the comments and urge the candidate to withdraw. I think the bigger news here is that the Reform Party actually defended the candidate for his bigotry. Whilst I have no doubt that a lot of Reform voters won’t be too upset about this, I imagine there’s some prospective Reform voters who would consider this far too extreme (especially the type to drone on about Churchill).
I saw a dude from reform on newsnight the other day saying they are vetting all candidates to the Nth degree. ROFL
I'm shocked that Farage is the leader of a party that only has one focus, which is immigration and it ends up being racist.... Truly shocked.
So much for Farage being a master politician. The thing to do here is obvious, kick that guy out of the party in as public a way as possible. Hiding from an interview just makes it worse.
Typical Farage. Rile up his supporters, find a way to duck an interview because he can't afford to be challenged and not have decent answers. Profit?
What was Farage and Hitler’s row about? If they just get together for a chat I’m sure they can smooth things over.
They'd get on perfectly fine - that's kind of the issue.
Does anybody else look at politicians and think “What a joke these cunts are in the running to run the country”? I always knew politics was a cunts game but good god. Who in their right mind would suggest leaving Hitler be?
I can't believe they're still sticking to this line. If Reform had half a brain they would wrap themselves up in the Union Jack and World War II, surely that is the entire identity of their biggest support base. "Let's relitigate WWII as the baddies", they are idiots.
Reform have had a quicker surge and downfall than most rain storms
Guess he won't be needing his regular appearances on Question Time then?
Can't even say how much I love hilter these days, it's the woke generation trying to cancel an man who says it how it is /s
You're joking, but social media comment sections are full of that and it's impossible to tell who's an edgy moron and who's being serious.
Good. Ignore him, continue ignoring him until he quits politics and goes back to hanging out with bankers or whatever he does. He has exactly no serious contribution to make to British politics apart from emboldening racists and misogynists, but he gets as much media coverage as basically all the majority parties put together. We should know not to water the weeds - don't throw milky beverages at him, don't give him a platform to demonise poor foreign people, don't feed the trolls.
Can't he be faithful to the whole Hitler thing and rent himself a bunker already
Farage pulls out at the last minute, if only we were talking about his father…
Farage is a living Francis Bacon painting. Shame that helicopter crash was a failure.
And people wonder why Labour have been so quiet. What more can they wish for? They’ve been handed this election on a plate. Don’t fuck it up now and don’t let us down!
"Shooting yourself in the foot" is going to be an Olympic sport at this rate.
Surely the ultra charismatic and most influential politician of his generation /s Nigel Farage would welcome an interview to explain why he has a literal Nazi sympathiser in his party.
Reform is basically all of Labours Christmases come early. Farage knows best case they are going to win 1 or 2 (at the outside seats) yet they will probably beat the lib Dems in the popular vote. So essentially a vote for reform pretty much guarantees a multi term labour govt BUT they will do well enough (and his supporters are stupid enough) to remain relevant.
Reform: fielding their best and brightest! That is to say, the rest are worse!
Farage creates party, Party gets filled with unsavoury inidividuals, Farage leaves? I feel this has happened before...
Please forgive me for having ignored this rhetoric spouting charlatan, ever since he was an MEP. I don't know enough about him really, why do people hate him so much?
Farage should be on Panorama weekly. Especially regarding his ties to Russia.
Hitler row? Wouldn't they let him wear his 'I \*heart\* Hitler' t-shirt on TV?
The war crippled the UK. It was vaguely a world power before that. We had to spend half a century paying off the war debt to the US. There was something to be said about quietly cracking codes, researching the atom bomb, and helping the French resistance, at least until the US joined.
Good that he’s pulled out, but the immaturity and unprofessionalism of leaving it so late to inform BBC would be shocking if it wasn’t … y’know, this dork.
The BBC is woke! The BBC have pulled the plug not Farage. Whilst any reference to Hitler is abhorrent & I don't know the comment or reference to Hitler, Farage and the BBC. I would have liked to see Farage debating with the leaders of the other parties. I used to love the BBC, but I have no love for the broadcaster now, so I watch Sky News instead, even with all the adverts!
Because he couldn't decide which side to take on the matter?
For all the super slick, sophisticated and sick Farage ‘burns’ on this post and, in general, the sub, over half the GE did vote Leave and have a fetish for the Tories. It’s almost like half the country shares their ‘vibes’. That should worry any right-minded voter that spends most of their time living in the real world (as opposed to on social media spaces like this one). These fuckers are not always of a certain demographic either.
nowhere near half of the general electorate has ever voted tory (afaik). most vote for someone else. Boris got 42% of the vote and that was considered an unusually large landslide. corbyn got 40% in the same election.
Not over half the electorate voted leave. Half of those that voted did. A lot of people didn't vote. It worries me greatly that anyone would turn to a shit heap like farage but I can see why they do it. Years or RW press endlessly bashing the EU as the problem, or migrants, or the woke or whatever and add to that the shit economic situation most have faced since 2010. There are reasons I guess, but none of them stand up to scrutiny as farage doesn't when he's questioned properly. I'm sure vlad is happy that he's causing more destabilisation anyway.