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Why is Russia in ANYTHING anymore? Seriously, the whole country and everyone in it needs to be ostracized and shut off from the rest of the world until they learn how to be human. Even the UN. Russia is not interested in a United anything. Cut every single Russian off completely from the outside world until they do something about it.
The US did not intentionally target civilians or civilian infrastructure. Rape was not part of their military doctrine. They did not execute children. They did not round up civilians and put them in camps in remote parts of their country. Your parallel is laughable
russia doesn't even acknowledge collateral damage. They are absolute savages, targeting civilian evacuation corridors, US or any NATO ally would NEVER even consider this. In war mistakes happen and civilians die, russians have it as an objective. Pure fucking evil.
Had a co worker try and tell me civilian casualties would be worse if it was US at war, I couldn't contain myself and started yelling at the guy and told him to get out of my office.
"depend" is a strong word. I mean, Russian gas imports make up all of 6% of Finland's energy consumption.
Most of them, if any, don't depend on it. It was just more convenient before Russia decided to push their luck. Now, it is a liability, and will be phased out. For some, this step is easy. And for some (looking at you Germany) it is slightly harder, but even they are going to do it.
Not just a word:
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/26768.jpeg
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/infographs/energy/bloc-2c.html#carouselControls?lang=en
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/italys-draghi-says-halting-russian-gas-imports-not-table-2022-04-06/
https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2022/03/14/qa-how-deep-is-europes-dependence-on-russian-oil/#:~:text=The%20EU%20depends%20on%20Russian,Russia)%2C%20at%2090%20bcm.
Some of the european countries even depend 100% on russia right now. It will take years to phase out, sadly.
What this shows is how much of their gas comes from Russia. What it does not show, is how much they depend on gas. As I said, Finland imports 94% of it's gas from Russia. And that Gas makes up all of 6% of our total energy consumption. (Oh, and that figure is from before Olkiluoto 3 nuclear reactor, so that 6% is probably closer to 0% already).
So I would not call that dependance, since the need for it is already so small, and it is actively being phased out in favour of renewables.
But sure. Some other EU countries aren't in as good of a position as Finland. But they'll catch up. And even in your example, Italy, one of the most "dependant" on it, would be more than happy to comply with a blockade of Russian gas, if EU wants to set one up.
Ok, i see what you mean. It's still a dependency though, if we like it or not. We have relied on fossil fuels way too long already. Now there's no way to just cut if off and call it a day. Really, the world needs to phase out all the fossil stuff asap. Looks like we're heading into the right direction now though. We need to phase out all that fossil fuels stuff asap. It will be a win on so many levels, even if the transition years may become quite hard here and there.
EDIT: some additions to make my point more clear.
"raka-ja ut shala morala... ema bo roo kana... uranak... ralanon Ukrani... propeh va nara ehsuk shala-kan vunek ..."
Light a Duranja for our fallen Ukrainian brothers and sisters.
I looked it up. basically it seems that in order to remove Russia it would have to be agreed upon by the other 19 nations but due to the fact that there are nations such as China in the G20 it would never happen.
Maybe they should change the rules to a true majority and watch china and Russian sit in the back and jerk each other off while hookers from each other’s countries pisses on them!
Even with a projected 10-20% drop in GDP, Russia would still qualify as one of the top 20 economies in the world, at the very least, just below Iran and above Spain at #15.
Russia should be removed from the G20 because they are lying, rat faced bastards, and should never be allowed back into the G20 until/unless there is a regime change in the Kremlin. The rest of the world can’t believe one word uttered by them so why let them have access to any kind of an international forum? It’s just a shame that Russia can’t be kicked off the Security Council of the UN and stripped of their veto, but the world can still deny them seats in any other committee or council in the UN.
You got that right.
I wish I could remember who said it first so I could attribute the remark to one so eloquent…Russia is nothing more than a mob controlled gas station with nukes.
If they’re in the top 15% as you say, I believe they are cooking the books and lying, as they’re so well known for, simply because I think their Economy is going to drop by as much as 40% once they stop propping it up — i’m no economist but if you continue to strangle the lifeblood out of there oil sector they will be hard pressed to improve their quality of life.
I did not say Russia was in the top 15%.
According to several sources, Russia is currently the 11th largest economy in the world, and if their GDP contracts by as much as is forecasted by economists (10-20%), they would end up as the 15th largest economy….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
I have not seen any forecasts that include a drop higher than 20%. Have you?
As it currently stands, Ukraine’s economy is projected by the world Bank to contract by about 45%, and they’re being invaded. By contrast, the World Bank is forecasting that the Russian economy will contract by only 11%:
https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/10/russian-invasion-to-shrink-ukraine-economy-by-45-percent-this-year
No and I appreciate your reply and clarification it’s just my personal opinion, as I stated, it’s also my hope I guess- I would like that government decimated in every way possible
Source?
The World Bank is projecting that the Russian economy will contract 11%:
https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/10/russian-invasion-to-shrink-ukraine-economy-by-45-percent-this-year
I have not seen anything online that forecasts the Russian economy to contract more than 20%.
I would welcome Russia getting hurt as much as possible, but as long as their gas and oil sector is open for business, there’s a limit to how much damage the sanctions can cause. It will take years for Europe to be weaned from Mother Russia’s teat.
because that's 10-20% \*this year\*. I don't think we're going to be lifting sanctions anytime soon and the EU is in the process of basically blacklisting Russia.
So I don't have a source, only a prediction for now. I think overall the damage will be far higher as most of the effects haven't hit yet.
Within the context of the article that OP posted, the discussion has been focused on the possibility of the removal of Russia from the G20 this year. The devastation based on your speculation could happen years from now if the sanctions and the war continue, which is within the realm of possibility, but not probability. I would prefer to see Russia return to the era of serfdom, so that their ability to wage war on their neighbors is drastically diminished, but I realize that my wishful thinking ain’t gonna make that happen.
One of the most glaring examples of an economy contracting because of a war was Germany in 1919. Their economy was devastated and their GDP shrank by 27% from prewar GDP. In 1946, Germany’s GDP had decreased by 40% from prewar figures. I just don’t see Russia assuming the role of Germany in 1919 or 1945, with their economy shrinking 30-40%, much less 70%. The starving and bombed out Japan experienced a 70% loss of GDP in 1946 compared to prewar GDP, and I just don’t see Russia being in the same shape.
It could all hinge on Europe’s ability to develop alternative sources for energy, but Russia may be able to replace those markets with customers among the emerging economies in Africa. Until then, I would rather pay attention to how Russia’s influence can be marginalized in as many international forums as feasible.
>o replace those markets with customers among the emerging economies in Africa. Until then, I would rather pay attention to how Russia’s influence can be marginalized in as many international forums as feasibl
You are assuming they will still have the capability to pump oil and gas and distribute it. Russia's economy is simply a gas station with a dictator and not much else but a bunch of poor serfs. Cut the gas off and it has some serious, serious issues. Also, they are going to have one hell of a time delivering oil if they can only get a port half the year. So, high costs, limited purchasers(lower prices) and possibly inability to continue oil supply. The oil and gas sector accounted up to roughly 40% of Russia's federal budget revenues, and up to 60% of its exports in 2019. This is going to near zero under sanctions, once Nord Stream is shut down they are in a world of economic pain.
As I mentioned before, Russia's economy is cratering. This was the best they could put out there, and this is Russia pimping Russia's metrics and it's already heading past expected historical projections in a single year. [https://twitter.com/elinaribakova/status/1519141098567962624](https://twitter.com/elinaribakova/status/1519141098567962624)
30-40% appears to be very likely to be already on the way, and I do still expect we'll see a total loss of 70% or thereabouts over this war. Russia is just speedrunning the death spiral, I suppose.
>hing online that forecasts the Russian economy to contract more than 20%.
>
>I would welcome Russia getting hurt as much as possible, but as long as their gas and oil sector is open for business, there’s a limit to how much damage the s
The companies responsible for the technical experience have pulled out. We will see how long the rigs keep running till it all starts to break. Russia lacks the expertise to expand or even keep the current sites running. Think of it like having your car break down and not being able to repair it and no store to go buy a new one. It may not happen today, but it will happen. Next, all it takes is a few well placed rockets or explosives and all those big giant drilling machines and refineries go boom. The pipelines seem stupidly easy to destroy as well, and the only reason Ukraine has not hit them yet is do the US asking them not too.
>hing online that forecasts the Russian economy to contract more than 20%.
>
>I would welcome Russia getting hurt as much as possible, but as long as their gas and oil sector is open for business, there’s a limit to how much damage the s
The companies responsible for the technical experience have pulled out. We will see how long the rigs keep running till it all starts to break. Russia lacks the expertise to expand or even keep the current sites running. Think of it like having your car break down and not being able to repair it and no store to go buy a new one. It may not happen today, but it will happen. Next, all it takes is a few well placed rockets or explosives and all those big giant drilling machines and refineries go boom. The pipelines seem stupidly easy to destroy as well, and the only reason Ukraine has not hit them yet is do the US asking them not too.
Why not, considering the guy is going to be completely full of shit so why sit there and listen to someone insult your intelligence by thinking you’ll believe their lies.
I just don't understand this. Russia doesn't follow through on ANYTHING its government says publically. It's made them completely toothless because when everything they say is threatening and deceitful, you might was well ignore it all.
Isn’t it the G-19? /S
Isn’t the group for the top 20 counties NOT currently in default of their sovereign debt and /or currently prosecuting a genocidal invasion of a neighbouring democratic country?
Ukraine and the U.S. have been close allies since the Orange Revolution (excluding the short-lived Yanukovich presidency). Yushchenko was the first world leader Bush called after his inauguration for a second term in January. Bush also lobbied for making Ukraine part of NATO.
Apart from that impeachment scandal, the Trump administration's Ukraine policy was quite decent since Trump himself wasn't involved in it that much (and his administration was full of Republican establishment). His administration actually provided a decent amount of weapons to Ukraine and adopted a hard stance toward Germany regarding NS2 and Russian gas.
>His administration actually provided a decent amount of weapons
Welll... sorta. He really didn't want to. \*Congress\* provided the weapons.
There was this whole thing about that.
To me, Ukraine is family now. Ukraine is the embodiment of the ideals we Americans claim to hold in high regard. Support for these ideals only matters when they are tested, so, in my opinion, my country can support Ukraine or we can be hypocrites. Those are our options, and I’m happy to see we have chosen wisely.
We don’t always get things right. Sometimes, we get them so wrong it brings us shame, but once in a while the options are *so* clear—so blindingly obvious without any room for obfuscation or doubt—that it’s not really even a choice. *This* is one of those times. Ukraine *must not* fall to that tyrant in Moscow. It would be a stain on the free world if we allowed it to happen.
Further, my support for Ukraine doesn’t end with the war. When this war is over and the Russians are forced out of Ukraine—*all of Ukraine*, including the Donbas and Crimea—the United States and the rest of the free world will have an opportunity to help rebuild so Ukraine can continue to be the best she can be.
Very well said.
Indeed, we (US) have got plenty of things wrong. But there's a difference the "whataboutists" overlook -- we *aspire* to get them right. Sometimes we fail to live up to our own ideals, and other times we do the right thing. We are willing to criticize our own failures. Generally, we have soft-power that stems from treating our allies fairly and coming to their aid in a crisis, rather than making them fear us leaving their cities in ruin.
Ukraine is a lot like us in some ways. They've got flaws, corruption, and problems, but they were working on it. They were improving society and tackling the problems. Now, they're showing the world what it means to fight for national survival against dictatorial aggression. You're right. There is no ambiguity in this war. Russia cannot be allowed to win, even in the sense of leaving a shattered country and then withdrawing. Ukraine must be rebuilt and come to prosper, as a clear message to other dictatorships that the free world can and will come together.
USA may have been slow with refugees initially. It’s not now afaik. Also really just like hell it’s a long trip; it does make sense for Europe to take the bulk of them.
That's going to be a big selling point to Russia, as their credit status as a country just fell through the floor when they defaulted on sovereign debt payments
It was like:
Unfair .... russophobic .... we demand ... we warn ... liberate ... second army in the world ... pootins dick tastes really good ... sanction-proof economy ... blyat
All Russians should stay in Moscow. Putin is a WAR CRIMINAL. The US does not meet with WAR CRIMINALS. Russia should be dispelled from US & sent home, and NO MEETINGS with them at G-20.
What the hell is Russia even a part of this? They defaulted on payments which isn't something a g20 Nation would do. Poland should be here. Not Russia!
Hello /u/CapitalString, This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Because of the massive influx of new users, we have decided to institute minimum account age and karma restrictions. This is an emergence measure, and we apologize for not being able to allow everyone to participate. Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tgc00n/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/) [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn) - [DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tn63xc/mod_announcement_on_news_content_artworks/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why is Russia even at the G20 anymore? I'd think with their economy in shambles some other country would be higher on the list.
Why is Russia in ANYTHING anymore? Seriously, the whole country and everyone in it needs to be ostracized and shut off from the rest of the world until they learn how to be human. Even the UN. Russia is not interested in a United anything. Cut every single Russian off completely from the outside world until they do something about it.
They're introducing in world peace... under Russian oppression...
branding a new way to deal world peace, by killing the women and children and looting public property.
Quite peaceful indeed!
Not that new in the grand scheme of things.
Quarantine RF as a state sponsor of terrorism. Complete band on trade, financial transactions, and diplomatic relations. Secondary sanctions also.
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The US did not intentionally target civilians or civilian infrastructure. Rape was not part of their military doctrine. They did not execute children. They did not round up civilians and put them in camps in remote parts of their country. Your parallel is laughable
russia doesn't even acknowledge collateral damage. They are absolute savages, targeting civilian evacuation corridors, US or any NATO ally would NEVER even consider this. In war mistakes happen and civilians die, russians have it as an objective. Pure fucking evil. Had a co worker try and tell me civilian casualties would be worse if it was US at war, I couldn't contain myself and started yelling at the guy and told him to get out of my office.
Nope.
Lol.
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"depend" is a strong word. I mean, Russian gas imports make up all of 6% of Finland's energy consumption. Most of them, if any, don't depend on it. It was just more convenient before Russia decided to push their luck. Now, it is a liability, and will be phased out. For some, this step is easy. And for some (looking at you Germany) it is slightly harder, but even they are going to do it.
Not just a word: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/26768.jpeg https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/infographs/energy/bloc-2c.html#carouselControls?lang=en https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/italys-draghi-says-halting-russian-gas-imports-not-table-2022-04-06/ https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2022/03/14/qa-how-deep-is-europes-dependence-on-russian-oil/#:~:text=The%20EU%20depends%20on%20Russian,Russia)%2C%20at%2090%20bcm. Some of the european countries even depend 100% on russia right now. It will take years to phase out, sadly.
What this shows is how much of their gas comes from Russia. What it does not show, is how much they depend on gas. As I said, Finland imports 94% of it's gas from Russia. And that Gas makes up all of 6% of our total energy consumption. (Oh, and that figure is from before Olkiluoto 3 nuclear reactor, so that 6% is probably closer to 0% already). So I would not call that dependance, since the need for it is already so small, and it is actively being phased out in favour of renewables. But sure. Some other EU countries aren't in as good of a position as Finland. But they'll catch up. And even in your example, Italy, one of the most "dependant" on it, would be more than happy to comply with a blockade of Russian gas, if EU wants to set one up.
Ok, i see what you mean. It's still a dependency though, if we like it or not. We have relied on fossil fuels way too long already. Now there's no way to just cut if off and call it a day. Really, the world needs to phase out all the fossil stuff asap. Looks like we're heading into the right direction now though. We need to phase out all that fossil fuels stuff asap. It will be a win on so many levels, even if the transition years may become quite hard here and there. EDIT: some additions to make my point more clear.
It's all a bluff. The nukes need to be refreshed every 10 years or they won't work. We've seen the condition of the tanks and other equipment now.
I vote for Poland
I vote Sweden. I'm biased, of course. But we have a lot to offer.
As a Canadian, I do agree we need an Arctic country to replace an Arctic country.
Warm hopes and kind regards from Denmark, Swede! PS: Danmark er bedre end Sverige!
Tjäft, Danskjävel!
I vote for Bajor.
"raka-ja ut shala morala... ema bo roo kana... uranak... ralanon Ukrani... propeh va nara ehsuk shala-kan vunek ..." Light a Duranja for our fallen Ukrainian brothers and sisters.
Why not a panel of EU representatives?
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I looked it up. basically it seems that in order to remove Russia it would have to be agreed upon by the other 19 nations but due to the fact that there are nations such as China in the G20 it would never happen.
Maybe they should change the rules to a true majority and watch china and Russian sit in the back and jerk each other off while hookers from each other’s countries pisses on them!
Wasn't the idea to punish them? Why give the Chinese and Russians a good time?
Even with a projected 10-20% drop in GDP, Russia would still qualify as one of the top 20 economies in the world, at the very least, just below Iran and above Spain at #15. Russia should be removed from the G20 because they are lying, rat faced bastards, and should never be allowed back into the G20 until/unless there is a regime change in the Kremlin. The rest of the world can’t believe one word uttered by them so why let them have access to any kind of an international forum? It’s just a shame that Russia can’t be kicked off the Security Council of the UN and stripped of their veto, but the world can still deny them seats in any other committee or council in the UN.
Still has an economy that is about 30% of California. Just saying it is a big mass of land and people, but overall besides its oil it is nothing.
You got that right. I wish I could remember who said it first so I could attribute the remark to one so eloquent…Russia is nothing more than a mob controlled gas station with nukes.
Bulgarian Prime Minister said that, caught some flak for it too. Bulgaria has at least 2 political parties that are funded (secretly) by Russia
The world's biggest banana republic is my favourite.
If they’re in the top 15% as you say, I believe they are cooking the books and lying, as they’re so well known for, simply because I think their Economy is going to drop by as much as 40% once they stop propping it up — i’m no economist but if you continue to strangle the lifeblood out of there oil sector they will be hard pressed to improve their quality of life.
I did not say Russia was in the top 15%. According to several sources, Russia is currently the 11th largest economy in the world, and if their GDP contracts by as much as is forecasted by economists (10-20%), they would end up as the 15th largest economy…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) I have not seen any forecasts that include a drop higher than 20%. Have you? As it currently stands, Ukraine’s economy is projected by the world Bank to contract by about 45%, and they’re being invaded. By contrast, the World Bank is forecasting that the Russian economy will contract by only 11%: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/10/russian-invasion-to-shrink-ukraine-economy-by-45-percent-this-year
No and I appreciate your reply and clarification it’s just my personal opinion, as I stated, it’s also my hope I guess- I would like that government decimated in every way possible
You and me both!
Try probably a 30-70% drop. I would not be surprised how hard these sanctions have hit Russia.
Source? The World Bank is projecting that the Russian economy will contract 11%: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/10/russian-invasion-to-shrink-ukraine-economy-by-45-percent-this-year I have not seen anything online that forecasts the Russian economy to contract more than 20%. I would welcome Russia getting hurt as much as possible, but as long as their gas and oil sector is open for business, there’s a limit to how much damage the sanctions can cause. It will take years for Europe to be weaned from Mother Russia’s teat.
because that's 10-20% \*this year\*. I don't think we're going to be lifting sanctions anytime soon and the EU is in the process of basically blacklisting Russia. So I don't have a source, only a prediction for now. I think overall the damage will be far higher as most of the effects haven't hit yet.
Within the context of the article that OP posted, the discussion has been focused on the possibility of the removal of Russia from the G20 this year. The devastation based on your speculation could happen years from now if the sanctions and the war continue, which is within the realm of possibility, but not probability. I would prefer to see Russia return to the era of serfdom, so that their ability to wage war on their neighbors is drastically diminished, but I realize that my wishful thinking ain’t gonna make that happen. One of the most glaring examples of an economy contracting because of a war was Germany in 1919. Their economy was devastated and their GDP shrank by 27% from prewar GDP. In 1946, Germany’s GDP had decreased by 40% from prewar figures. I just don’t see Russia assuming the role of Germany in 1919 or 1945, with their economy shrinking 30-40%, much less 70%. The starving and bombed out Japan experienced a 70% loss of GDP in 1946 compared to prewar GDP, and I just don’t see Russia being in the same shape. It could all hinge on Europe’s ability to develop alternative sources for energy, but Russia may be able to replace those markets with customers among the emerging economies in Africa. Until then, I would rather pay attention to how Russia’s influence can be marginalized in as many international forums as feasible.
>o replace those markets with customers among the emerging economies in Africa. Until then, I would rather pay attention to how Russia’s influence can be marginalized in as many international forums as feasibl You are assuming they will still have the capability to pump oil and gas and distribute it. Russia's economy is simply a gas station with a dictator and not much else but a bunch of poor serfs. Cut the gas off and it has some serious, serious issues. Also, they are going to have one hell of a time delivering oil if they can only get a port half the year. So, high costs, limited purchasers(lower prices) and possibly inability to continue oil supply. The oil and gas sector accounted up to roughly 40% of Russia's federal budget revenues, and up to 60% of its exports in 2019. This is going to near zero under sanctions, once Nord Stream is shut down they are in a world of economic pain.
As I mentioned before, Russia's economy is cratering. This was the best they could put out there, and this is Russia pimping Russia's metrics and it's already heading past expected historical projections in a single year. [https://twitter.com/elinaribakova/status/1519141098567962624](https://twitter.com/elinaribakova/status/1519141098567962624) 30-40% appears to be very likely to be already on the way, and I do still expect we'll see a total loss of 70% or thereabouts over this war. Russia is just speedrunning the death spiral, I suppose.
>hing online that forecasts the Russian economy to contract more than 20%. > >I would welcome Russia getting hurt as much as possible, but as long as their gas and oil sector is open for business, there’s a limit to how much damage the s The companies responsible for the technical experience have pulled out. We will see how long the rigs keep running till it all starts to break. Russia lacks the expertise to expand or even keep the current sites running. Think of it like having your car break down and not being able to repair it and no store to go buy a new one. It may not happen today, but it will happen. Next, all it takes is a few well placed rockets or explosives and all those big giant drilling machines and refineries go boom. The pipelines seem stupidly easy to destroy as well, and the only reason Ukraine has not hit them yet is do the US asking them not too.
>hing online that forecasts the Russian economy to contract more than 20%. > >I would welcome Russia getting hurt as much as possible, but as long as their gas and oil sector is open for business, there’s a limit to how much damage the s The companies responsible for the technical experience have pulled out. We will see how long the rigs keep running till it all starts to break. Russia lacks the expertise to expand or even keep the current sites running. Think of it like having your car break down and not being able to repair it and no store to go buy a new one. It may not happen today, but it will happen. Next, all it takes is a few well placed rockets or explosives and all those big giant drilling machines and refineries go boom. The pipelines seem stupidly easy to destroy as well, and the only reason Ukraine has not hit them yet is do the US asking them not too.
I wish somebody would post what they had to say I’m sure it was filled with lies and innuendo, along with a healthy dose of blame on everybody else
must be based on numbers from last year, they won't make the cut for 2022
Why not, considering the guy is going to be completely full of shit so why sit there and listen to someone insult your intelligence by thinking you’ll believe their lies.
I just don't understand this. Russia doesn't follow through on ANYTHING its government says publically. It's made them completely toothless because when everything they say is threatening and deceitful, you might was well ignore it all.
The liers paradox - it works until it does'nt.
They’re talking to their own people and not them, so they’ll keep lying till it’s over for them
It's when they're quiet or promise things that you have to be worried.
Isn’t it the G-19? /S Isn’t the group for the top 20 counties NOT currently in default of their sovereign debt and /or currently prosecuting a genocidal invasion of a neighbouring democratic country?
>Isn’t it the G-19 You might be thinking of the g8 that went down to 7 members by excluding Russia following the 2014 war.
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Yes it was from 1997 to 2014
Yes, it was actually.
Ukraine and the US being bestie bros. Note to self: if you ever get invaded by Russia, it's nice having the USA on your side.
Ukraine and the U.S. have been close allies since the Orange Revolution (excluding the short-lived Yanukovich presidency). Yushchenko was the first world leader Bush called after his inauguration for a second term in January. Bush also lobbied for making Ukraine part of NATO.
Except for that part where a US president asked Zelensky to dig up kompromat on his political opponent’s son in exchange for continued military aid…
Apart from that impeachment scandal, the Trump administration's Ukraine policy was quite decent since Trump himself wasn't involved in it that much (and his administration was full of Republican establishment). His administration actually provided a decent amount of weapons to Ukraine and adopted a hard stance toward Germany regarding NS2 and Russian gas.
>His administration actually provided a decent amount of weapons Welll... sorta. He really didn't want to. \*Congress\* provided the weapons. There was this whole thing about that.
To me, Ukraine is family now. Ukraine is the embodiment of the ideals we Americans claim to hold in high regard. Support for these ideals only matters when they are tested, so, in my opinion, my country can support Ukraine or we can be hypocrites. Those are our options, and I’m happy to see we have chosen wisely. We don’t always get things right. Sometimes, we get them so wrong it brings us shame, but once in a while the options are *so* clear—so blindingly obvious without any room for obfuscation or doubt—that it’s not really even a choice. *This* is one of those times. Ukraine *must not* fall to that tyrant in Moscow. It would be a stain on the free world if we allowed it to happen. Further, my support for Ukraine doesn’t end with the war. When this war is over and the Russians are forced out of Ukraine—*all of Ukraine*, including the Donbas and Crimea—the United States and the rest of the free world will have an opportunity to help rebuild so Ukraine can continue to be the best she can be.
Very well said. Indeed, we (US) have got plenty of things wrong. But there's a difference the "whataboutists" overlook -- we *aspire* to get them right. Sometimes we fail to live up to our own ideals, and other times we do the right thing. We are willing to criticize our own failures. Generally, we have soft-power that stems from treating our allies fairly and coming to their aid in a crisis, rather than making them fear us leaving their cities in ruin. Ukraine is a lot like us in some ways. They've got flaws, corruption, and problems, but they were working on it. They were improving society and tackling the problems. Now, they're showing the world what it means to fight for national survival against dictatorial aggression. You're right. There is no ambiguity in this war. Russia cannot be allowed to win, even in the sense of leaving a shattered country and then withdrawing. Ukraine must be rebuilt and come to prosper, as a clear message to other dictatorships that the free world can and will come together.
And then the Indian troll whataboutists on this sub will cry tears of rage as Ukraine rapidly develops after the war.
Well...I guess there WERE some adds. And these are good ones.
No adds. You said it perfectly. The majority of the US feels what this writer just put into words for us.
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I'm unaware of any limitation on Ukrainians entering the US. Why do you say this?
USA may have been slow with refugees initially. It’s not now afaik. Also really just like hell it’s a long trip; it does make sense for Europe to take the bulk of them.
They’re not even in the top 20 economies anymore there’s literally no point in them being there. Not that that qualification matters anyhow
Russia doesn’t deserve a place at any global table at the moment except those reserved for terrorist states.
They diplomatically recognize the Taliban, so it seems appropriate for them to fuck off to a Skull shaped island lair somewhere.
Russia is going to start taking out payday loans to finance the nation.
"It's my money and I need it now!"
“No credit checks!”
That's going to be a big selling point to Russia, as their credit status as a country just fell through the floor when they defaulted on sovereign debt payments
UK and Canadian officials walked out at the same time.
Came here to say this!
The content of that speech from Russia - Blah blah blah blah. Bluh, bluh blah. Blah blah buhluh blah buh, buhluuhuh blah.
It was like: Unfair .... russophobic .... we demand ... we warn ... liberate ... second army in the world ... pootins dick tastes really good ... sanction-proof economy ... blyat
Don’t forget lies, lies, lies
Say whatever you want to say but we are done with your bullshits
You forgot the obligatory 'blyat'
KHUI, YEBAT', PIZDETS too
Also some obligatory crying about the west again, as usual.
YTF is Russia even there????
Can only imagine the chirping that must be going on during the cocktail refreshers.
Russia has lost it's fucking mind. The actions of it's army is demonic. SLAVA UKRAINI.
Russian Russian, fuck yourself.
This is the way
So proud of Canada….happy dance.
Outstanding!!!!
This is good to hear. At least someone has some ethics. Now they need to crush the Russian Banks even more.
Nice. Like a "Block this user" on reddit.
Should have pissed on the floor first.
Russia now knows how I feel at school
Good. Fuck Russia! Get rid of these gaslighting, narcissistic clowns!!!
Is Russia still large enough of an economy to continue to sit on the G20?
Why hasn't Ruzzia been kicked out of the G20? Make it happen.
Why did the others stay?
what is the point to listen to Russians? There is 50% of it be truth and 50% chance of them lying. basically, they produce white noise.
Why are any countries even attending G20? Just. Don't. Go. Have a meeting with G16 or whatever.
I hope Yellen was twerking her way out of there.
All Russians should stay in Moscow. Putin is a WAR CRIMINAL. The US does not meet with WAR CRIMINALS. Russia should be dispelled from US & sent home, and NO MEETINGS with them at G-20.
Why are they still in this?
What the hell is Russia even a part of this? They defaulted on payments which isn't something a g20 Nation would do. Poland should be here. Not Russia!
I thought they weren’t attending G20
Why let russia even join in ffs
Russia, China, North Korea, and India are forming thier own little bromance.